How come Finns are so distant to Swedes genetically?

[Scandal]

On Eurogenes k13? I didn't check other calculators. According to vahaduo k13 Finns are genetically much closer to Russians than to Swedes. Finns are even closer to Hungarians than to Swedes which doesn't make sense at all to me.

[TheMaestro]

Obviously - Sweden are Norse, basically Northern Germanic people
Fins - BaltoUralic

[Lemminkäinen]

On Eurogenes k13? I didn't check other calculators. According to vahaduo k13 Finns are genetically much closer to Russians than to Swedes. Finns are even closer to Hungarians than to Swedes which doesn't make sense at all to me.

North Atlantic and West Med. Swedes got both from North Germany and other Scandinavian countries. If you look at ancient proportions in Gotland and Svealand you get it.

Old Finnish samples from the Iron Age Southwestern Finland were close Belarusians, as also Iron Age Gotlanders. These Finnish samples are now hidden, but were available 2-3 years ago. Finnish researchers didn't want to publish them, because the project was named as "the Finno-Ugric origin". It would have sounded ridiculous.

[Russki]

How come Finns are so distant to Swedes genetically?

On Eurogenes k13? According to vahaduo k13 Finns are genetically much closer to Russians than to Swedes. Finns are even closer to Hungarians than to Swedes which doesn't make sense at all to me.

The same reason why Saamis are even more distant to Swedes despite living even closer to them.

They are also very distant on Global25.

https://sun9-84.userapi.com/impg/BVplNp-u73tn6iL-rZVmFFSi8ztHdpRKJA0R-g/WPIBgct6rHw.jpg?size=721x533&quality=95&sign=eff2a7bd59c1579102c8a2c711a8efc8&type=album

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/05/uralic-specific-genome-wide-ancestry.html



On a more basic admixture level Russians are closer to Swedes than Finns to Swedes.

https://images.ctfassets.net/cnu0m8re1exe/cF22QTGYjRxzhL0MXb1s4/6e8d5ad1bff7583288bf9f324d68d4a7/journal.pone_.0016747.s003-.png?fm=jpg&fl=progressive&w=660&h=433&fit=pad

https://images.ctfassets.net/cnu0m8re1exe/66kF3FiHSDyf1zVdfyMDB6/51e3e149fc1b73013be6cc7f8ea08c26/sw1.png?fm=jpg&fl=progressive&w=660&h=433&fit=pad

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/swedes-not-so-homogeneous

[Art23]

Finns have it good that they are so different from others. You do DNA test and you know that you are Finnish. That doesn't function well with Hungarians who could be Slovaks, Romanians, Croatians, Germans, Jews, Roma in disguise

[Lemminkäinen]

Finns have it good that they are so different from others. You do DNA test and you know that you are Finnish. That doesn't function well with Hungarians who could be Slovaks, Romanians, Croatians, Germans, Jews, Roma in disguise

Half of Finns get only around 50% Finnish. Are they 50% German? Only Northeast late settlement Finns with 15% Saami get 100% Finnish. One thing is that we should know the residual admixture and none of commercial tests gives it. What I want to see is tests without residual admixture (near 0%) or alternatively an Iron Age test. Irin Age because the Finnish expansion started 1000 yetas ago and all commercial tests use population specific allele sets of their own.

edit

an example how easy it is to select population specific allele sets. In this case only Saami specific alleles on the y axis. These alleles represent around 1% admixture and the result says nothing about the rest 99%. This is how these test work.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GtbI7okZ2ZU/WKWJh3PDZNI/AAAAAAAABAc/8jpJt7KhjhE7pzj-Qt_ZhxiAG6m_hcrEQCLcB/s1600/2gv6fb5.jpg

[Peterski]

On Eurogenes k13? I didn't check other calculators. According to vahaduo k13 Finns are genetically much closer to Russians than to Swedes. Finns are even closer to Hungarians than to Swedes which doesn't make sense at all to me.

Swedes and Finns originated far away from each other and in ancient times both countries had low population.

For example Angus Maddison estimates that in year 1 AD entire Finland was inhabited by only 20,000 people.

[Finnish Swede]

Now the next one can comment how different they are as people/humans? As if anything that will means a lot? Almost all?

PS: I'm all ears now, I have followed both my whole lifetime. Some cheap cliches or caricatures will not work with me.
Compare to many/any Europeans...

[Östsvensk]

Now the next one can comment how different they are as people/humans? As if anything that will means a lot? Almost all?

PS: I'm all ears now, I have followed both my whole lifetime. Some cheap cliches or caricatures will not work with me.
Compare to many/any Europeans...


Educated or not, Finnish immigrants often felt the sting of discrimination on a level greater than their European-immigrant neighbors. Many mine managers found the Finns to be resistant to integration and slow to learn English. Local society in general harbored suspicions about the Finns, the politics of some and their unfamiliar customs. A settler from 1887 stated, “the old settlers looked down upon them with the same sort of aversion as the west coast people do on the heathen Chinee (Finn 16).” But ethnic discrimination did not end with such statements of ignorant fear.

Corporate mine management throughout the Lake Superior region noted the Finns disproportionate involvement in radical labor and unionism. In letters to the company President, Agent Charles Lawton blamed Finns for a 1906 strike, which resulted in lost production, increased wages and other financial losses to the company (Finn 17). Calumet & Hecla Mining Co. General Manager James MacNaughton wrote plainly to the Commissioner of Immigration at Ellis Island and the U.S. Secretary of Commerce and Labor, “we do not want Finlanders (Finn 18).”

The degree to which Finnish immigrants were distrusted and often shunned by mine management and even the communities into which they moved was disproportionately high compared to their immigrant neighbors. Alanen posits that one “unique and often controversial manner” by which Finnish immigrants dealt with the difficulties of life in an industrial society occurred with the change in the loyalties and beliefs of immigrants through the immigration period. The conservative Lutheran orientation of the 19th century immigrant community became augmented by the arrival of radicalized early 20th century Finnish immigrants (Finn 19). Although socialist ideologues were small in number in the district, particularly by comparison to their representation amongst Finnish immigration to Minnesota, they found a place for labor unrest and conflict with management in the Finnish immigrant communities employed in the industrial mines.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070308124318/http://ethnicity.lib.mtu.edu/groups_Finns.html

[Autrigón]

Finland should be invaded by Russia after Ukraine.

[Aila]

double post

[Aila]

As a Karelian and Saami mix I do understand the First Nations hunter-gatherer mentality and relationship with nature in Australia as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq43Yqi5-UE

[Harkonnen]

Educated or not, Finnish immigrants often felt the sting of discrimination on a level greater than their European-immigrant neighbors. Many mine managers found the Finns to be resistant to integration and slow to learn English. Local society in general harbored suspicions about the Finns, the politics of some and their unfamiliar customs. A settler from 1887 stated, “the old settlers looked down upon them with the same sort of aversion as the west coast people do on the heathen Chinee (Finn 16).” But ethnic discrimination did not end with such statements of ignorant fear.

Corporate mine management throughout the Lake Superior region noted the Finns disproportionate involvement in radical labor and unionism. In letters to the company President, Agent Charles Lawton blamed Finns for a 1906 strike, which resulted in lost production, increased wages and other financial losses to the company (Finn 17). Calumet & Hecla Mining Co. General Manager James MacNaughton wrote plainly to the Commissioner of Immigration at Ellis Island and the U.S. Secretary of Commerce and Labor, “we do not want Finlanders (Finn 18).”

The degree to which Finnish immigrants were distrusted and often shunned by mine management and even the communities into which they moved was disproportionately high compared to their immigrant neighbors. Alanen posits that one “unique and often controversial manner” by which Finnish immigrants dealt with the difficulties of life in an industrial society occurred with the change in the loyalties and beliefs of immigrants through the immigration period. The conservative Lutheran orientation of the 19th century immigrant community became augmented by the arrival of radicalized early 20th century Finnish immigrants (Finn 19). Although socialist ideologues were small in number in the district, particularly by comparison to their representation amongst Finnish immigration to Minnesota, they found a place for labor unrest and conflict with management in the Finnish immigrant communities employed in the industrial mines.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070308124318/http://ethnicity.lib.mtu.edu/groups_Finns.html

Well big surprise there. Collectivist and submissive Americans found individualistic chad Finns who demanded higher salary and respect be weirdo.

[Lemminkäinen]

Well big surprise there. Collectivist and submissive Americans found individualistic chad Finns who demanded higher salary and respect be weirdo.

Yeah, we object also wokeism and other madnesses.

[Lemminkäinen]

Well big surprise there. Collectivist and submissive Americans found individualistic chad Finns who demanded higher salary and respect be weirdo.

Yeah, we object also wokeism and other madnesses.

[Finnish Swede]

Educated or not, Finnish immigrants often felt the sting of discrimination on a level greater than their European-immigrant neighbors. Many mine managers found the Finns to be resistant to integration and slow to learn English. Local society in general harbored suspicions about the Finns, the politics of some and their unfamiliar customs. A settler from 1887 stated, “the old settlers looked down upon them with the same sort of aversion as the west coast people do on the heathen Chinee (Finn 16).” But ethnic discrimination did not end with such statements of ignorant fear.

Corporate mine management throughout the Lake Superior region noted the Finns disproportionate involvement in radical labor and unionism. In letters to the company President, Agent Charles Lawton blamed Finns for a 1906 strike, which resulted in lost production, increased wages and other financial losses to the company (Finn 17). Calumet & Hecla Mining Co. General Manager James MacNaughton wrote plainly to the Commissioner of Immigration at Ellis Island and the U.S. Secretary of Commerce and Labor, “we do not want Finlanders (Finn 18).”

The degree to which Finnish immigrants were distrusted and often shunned by mine management and even the communities into which they moved was disproportionately high compared to their immigrant neighbors. Alanen posits that one “unique and often controversial manner” by which Finnish immigrants dealt with the difficulties of life in an industrial society occurred with the change in the loyalties and beliefs of immigrants through the immigration period. The conservative Lutheran orientation of the 19th century immigrant community became augmented by the arrival of radicalized early 20th century Finnish immigrants (Finn 19). Although socialist ideologues were small in number in the district, particularly by comparison to their representation amongst Finnish immigration to Minnesota, they found a place for labor unrest and conflict with management in the Finnish immigrant communities employed in the industrial mines.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070308124318/http://ethnicity.lib.mtu.edu/groups_Finns.html

I do not think you answered my questions
:eusa_eh:

[Harkonnen]

Yeah, we object also wokeism and other madnesses.

It is actually pretty obvious, the so called 'western european' culture is closer to Russian and Chinese style collectivism than Finnish culture. Finnish culture is the troo libertarian culture.

[Östsvensk]

I do not think you answered my questions
:eusa_eh:

Mitä oikein tapahtui? Olen käyttäytynyt hyvin ennalta-arvaamatonta ja järkyttynyt sinua. Voi perkele minua.

[Finnish Swede]

Mitä oikein tapahtui? Olen käyttäytynyt hyvin ennalta-arvaamatonta ja järkyttynyt sinua. Voi perkele minua.


Google translator works pretty badly with Finnish. I assume it should be ennalta-arvaamattomasti (Harkonnen/Lemmi can confirm).

But nope, actually opposite. Exactly with you, going back to history was pretty predictable.

[Östsvensk]

Google translator works pretty badly with Finnish. I assume it should be ennalta-arvaamattomasti (Harkonnen/Lemmi can confirm).

But nope, actually opposite. Exactly with you, going back to history was pretty predictable.

Not Google Translate. My Finnish is on novice level, sorry. If it is of any defence, it has one of toughest grammar out there.

[Finnish Swede]

Not Google Translate. My Finnish is on novice level, sorry. If it of any defence, it has one of toughest grammar out there.

Ok, then points for that :thumb001:. Grammar? Yes, I'm quote sure that even many Finns will not know all the theories well; opposite they just ''know'' what to use case by case.

I exactly follow some of Finland's media not to lose it.

[Östsvensk]

Ok, then points for that :thumb001:. Grammar? Yes, I'm quote sure that even many Finns will not know all the theories well; opposite they just ''know'' what to use case by case.

I exactly follow some of Finland's media not to lose it.

Kyllä. Uskon Lemminkäinen on paras asiantuntija. Tai Harkonnen. He näytät tietävän kaiken suomen kieli.

[Ion Basescul]

Very simple

https://www.reddit.com/r/fingols/comments/s9bce6/some_pictures_of_my_finnish_ancestors_you_can_see/

https://www.reddit.com/r/fingols/comments/gx45pw/asians_do_dna_tests/

[Roy]

Because of their long-lasting isolation not only through hundreds of years but actually millennia. Also their Siberian admixture explains that.

[XenophobicPrussian]

They aren't some sort of special, isolated population like others are saying. It's simply Mongoloid admixture, it's so diverged and far away from anything Caucasoid they'll be closer to populations with similar amounts of Mongoloid and very far from any Caucasoids. It's kinda like a Spaniard will be genetically closer to a North Italian than a Uruguayan who is 90% Spaniard but 5% Amerindian and 5% SSA.

If you took away the recent Mongoloid from both Finns and Russians, Finns as awhole(maybe not SW Finns) are still slightly closer to Russians anyway because Finns are 35% Germanic, 55% Baltic-like(rest recent East Asian), but they would be much closer to both populations in terms of distance.