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View Full Version : Classify half breton half central french (with dna results)


Flashball
03-12-2022, 01:34 PM
His Breton side > Western Britanny (Morbihan i think)
His Central french side > Tours (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tours) and Poitou

23andme results:
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647092052-fl-hx4ixsakmkwl.png

Y haplogroup R-S476
M haplogroup U4a


Gedmatch:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.52
2 West_Med 19.99
3 Baltic 19.65
4 East_Med 9.17
5 West_Asian 4.58
6 Amerindian 1.29
7 Oceanian 0.77
8 Red_Sea 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 4.15
2 South_Dutch 5.45
3 West_German 6.02
4 Southeast_English 8.97
5 Spanish_Cataluna 9.9
6 Southwest_English 10
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 11.45
8 Orcadian 11.47
9 Southwest_French 11.64
10 Portuguese 11.8
11 Spanish_Galicia 11.81
12 Spanish_Cantabria 11.93
13 North_German 12.44
14 Irish 12.44
15 Austrian 12.53
16 North_Dutch 12.54
17 Spanish_Valencia 12.57
18 West_Scottish 12.6
19 Danish 12.79
20 Spanish_Murcia 12.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.3% Spanish_Valencia + 45.7% Norwegian @ 2.1
2 56.1% Spanish_Valencia + 43.9% Swedish @ 2.1
3 82% Southeast_English + 18% Sardinian @ 2.11
4 62.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 37.8% Swedish @ 2.24
5 67.2% West_German + 32.8% Southwest_French @ 2.25
6 50.1% North_Dutch + 49.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.27
7 60.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 39.6% Norwegian @ 2.28
8 50.3% North_German + 49.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.31
9 76.4% North_Dutch + 23.6% Sardinian @ 2.46
10 56.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 43.8% North_Dutch @ 2.46
11 50.5% Spanish_Valencia + 49.5% Danish @ 2.49
12 56% Spanish_Cataluna + 44% North_German @ 2.51
13 79.2% West_German + 20.8% French_Basque @ 2.51
14 50.1% Spanish_Andalucia + 49.9% Norwegian @ 2.59
15 52% Spanish_Andalucia + 48% Swedish @ 2.59
16 72% West_German + 28% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.59
17 56.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 43.3% Danish @ 2.6
18 68.2% West_German + 31.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.63
19 70.4% South_Dutch + 29.6% Southwest_French @ 2.63
20 76% Danish + 24% Sardinian @ 2.64

1 North_Sea 34.05
2 Atlantic 24.85
3 West_Med 15.26
4 Baltic 8.37
5 East_Med 6.92
6 Eastern_Euro 6.17
7 West_Asian 2.93
8 Amerindian 0.92
9 Oceanian 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_German 5.64
2 French 6.03
3 South_Dutch 6.84
4 Southwest_English 7.16
5 Southeast_English 8.63
6 North_Dutch 10.61
7 Irish 10.83
8 Orcadian 10.91
9 Danish 11.08
10 North_German 11.12
11 West_Scottish 11.12
12 Spanish_Galicia 12.37
13 Norwegian 12.49
14 Spanish_Cataluna 12.91
15 West_Norwegian 13.23
16 Portuguese 13.54
17 Swedish 13.69
18 East_German 13.91
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.49
20 Spanish_Murcia 15.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.6% West_Norwegian + 49.4% Portuguese @ 3.57
2 75.9% West_Norwegian + 24.1% Sardinian @ 3.58
3 51.8% Spanish_Galicia + 48.2% West_Norwegian @ 3.81
4 85.8% West_German + 14.2% French_Basque @ 3.86
5 79.7% Orcadian + 20.3% Sardinian @ 3.87
6 50.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 49.3% West_Norwegian @ 3.89
7 79.4% West_German + 20.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.91
8 81.7% West_German + 18.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.95
9 54.1% West_Norwegian + 45.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.04
10 75.8% West_German + 24.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.06
11 54.1% West_Norwegian + 45.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.1
12 80.4% North_Dutch + 19.6% Sardinian @ 4.12
13 81.6% West_German + 18.4% Southwest_French @ 4.16
14 74.3% French + 25.7% West_Norwegian @ 4.2
15 82.1% West_German + 17.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.2
16 79.8% West_German + 20.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.22
17 82% West_German + 18% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.23
18 58.4% West_Norwegian + 41.6% North_Italian @ 4.25
19 77.7% West_German + 22.3% Portuguese @ 4.26
20 79% West_German + 21% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.28




Global 25
Breton(Western)-CentralFrench(Tours-Poitou),0.130897,0.141159,0.046763,0.024548,0.0381 61,0.009203,0.001645,0.008538,0.014317,0.014761,-0.002598,0.008093,-0.010704,-0.01445,0.019815,0.012861,-0.001043,0.004561,0.004777,-0.001376,0.005366,-0.002349,0.001479,0.011809,-0.000958


Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0423% / 0.04232271
46.0 TUR_Barcin_N
41.9 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.1 WHG

Distance to: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
0.02045768 French_Alsace:A_68_2
0.02160889 French_Paris:13
0.02196872 62_Pas-de-Calais:EXPL0104
0.02206080 62_Pas-de-Calais:EXPL0176
0.02246941 French_Pas-de-Calais:French24690
0.02249974 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_12
0.02252360 French_Paris:19
0.02312930 14_Calvados:EXPL0191
0.02327057 French_Paris:61_2
0.02342758 88_Vosges:EXPL0038
0.02343334 French_Nord:N_48
0.02453865 Picardo-Flamand
0.02489177 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_61
0.02503916 German:German48
0.02526173 59_Nord:EXPL0196
0.02550914 French_Alsace:A_79
0.02581704 French_Nord:N_44
0.02592753 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_44
0.02596587 French_Nord:N_37
0.02604572 French
0.02626517 Flamand
0.02626802 76_Seine-Maritime:EXPL0144
0.02630176 85_Vendée:EXPL0232
0.02633840 French_Nord:N_33
0.02636880 French_Nord:N_60_2
0.02649257 76_Seine-Maritime:EXPL0143
0.02650079 French_Provence:S_17
0.02652124 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_27
0.02658683 72_Sarthe:EXPL0120
0.02683799 50_Manche:EXPL0045
0.02684608 Belgian:Belgium24
0.02690305 French_Nord:N_19
0.02695542 French_Nord:N_5
0.02699696 Afrikaner:AFR057
0.02700112 80_Somme:EXPL0028
0.02706397 French_Auvergne:C_82
0.02708342 50_Manche:EXPL0046
0.02723822 17_Charente-Maritime:EXPL0012
0.02739475 Swiss_German:Swiss_German5
0.02746479 85_Vendée:EXPL0202
0.02755447 Belgian:Belgium13
0.02758674 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_16
0.02758988 44_Loire-Atlantique:EXPL0029
0.02780469 French_Auvergne:C_3
0.02785630 Belgian:Belgium2
0.02787460 French_Paris:93
0.02793128 27_Eure:EXPL0145
0.02793873 71_Saône-et-Loire:EXPL0031
0.02799776 50_Manche:EXPL0047
0.02801580 English:English4
0.02806324 French_Alsace:A_26
0.02812544 35_Ille-et-Vilaine:EXPL0081
0.02822913 29_Finistère:EXPL0188
0.02834268 42_Loire:EXPL0037
0.02837253 25_Doubs:EXPL0133
0.02857397 French_Nord:N_7
0.02862276 French_Nord:N_80_2
0.02866597 Belgian:Belgium5
0.02866766 French_Alsace:A_65
0.02874019 22_Côtes-d'armor:EXPL0025
0.02880023 French_Alsace:A_41_2
0.02885811 62_Pas-de-Calais:EXPL0206
0.02886220 Welsh:WalesL40
0.02894993 English:HG01791
0.02900653 French_Auvergne:C_18
0.02902279 French_Alsace:A_47
0.02906681 French_Alsace:A_49
0.02911540 French_Paris:1_2
0.02913631 67_Bas-Rhin:EXPL0156
0.02919959 French_Alsace:A_28
0.02923396 BretonNesranumen
0.02925901 51_Marne:EXPL0115
0.02928238 Welsh:WalesBK68
0.02933557 Belgian:Belgium23
0.02945085 French_Nord:N_42
0.02950363 19_Corrèze:EXPL0044
0.02975009 59_Nord:EXPL0094
0.02984468 French_Auvergne:C_26
0.02990479 French_Nord:N_28
0.02993783 French_Paris:47
0.02998841 French_Nord:N_45
0.03000006 French_Occitanie:T_11
0.03001318 French_Alsace:A_25
0.03006274 Afrikaner:AFR053
0.03008330 Swiss_German:Swiss_German1
0.03008781 19_Corrèze:EXPL0032
0.03009469 French_Nord:N_9_2
0.03011356 French_Paris:77
0.03039428 German:German44
0.03041818 French_Auvergne:C_5_2
0.03049466 50_Manche:EXPL0153
0.03052147 French_Nord:N_52
0.03052671 French_Occitanie:T_53
0.03058921 50_Manche:EXPL0067
0.03066229 Irish:Irish12
0.03080855 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_32
0.03080962 Afrikaner:AFR094
0.03087533 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_1
0.03089241 English_Cornwall:HG00236
0.03092366 76_Seine-Maritime:EXPL0021
0.03093097 French_Pas-de-Calais:French23862
0.03094693 French_Occitanie:T_97
0.03094847 French_Occitanie:T_112
0.03096251 44_Loire-Atlantique:EXPL0015
0.03102466 French_Occitanie:T_70
0.03103880 French_Nord:N_47
0.03105369 08_Ardennes:EXPL0035
0.03106641 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_46
0.03109697 Afrikaner:AFR018
0.03112392 Belgian:Belgium7
0.03113779 French_Occitanie:T_127
0.03116907 French_Provence:S_4
0.03127711 French_Occitanie:T_67
0.03128699 French_Auvergne:C_24
0.03129016 French_Alsace:A_38
0.03131398 36_Indre:EXPL0080
0.03134147 Welsh:WalesBK58
0.03139507 French_Nord:N_55
0.03139736 79_Deux-Sèvres:EXPL0162
0.03148591 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_28
0.03150181 English:England9
0.03155205 French_Auvergne:C_13
0.03156725 Belgian:Belgium22
0.03157866 50_Manche:EXPL0017
0.03158385 French_Nord:N_2
0.03162930 Welsh:WalesDR56
0.03163755 French_Occitanie:T_33
0.03164356 French_Paris:27_2
0.03165912 Afrikaner:AFR056
0.03166009 62_Pas-de-Calais:EXPL0136
0.03166678 French_Nord:N_34
0.03168528 English:HG01790
0.03171203 English_Cornwall:HG00255
0.03172118 50_Manche:EXPL0048
0.03174283 29_Finistère:EXPL0018
0.03174957 NordFrance(xerxezmère)
0.03180748 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_85
0.03192103 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta6
0.03192978 French_Provence:S_6
0.03194606 Belgian:Belgium19
0.03197639 German:German55
0.03204212 French_Auvergne:C_7
0.03205211 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_4
0.03207422 29_Finistère:EXPL0003
0.03210303 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_2
0.03210436 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_82
0.03212428 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_95
0.03212851 French_Paris:5_2
0.03218498 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_48
0.03219625 French_Alsace:A_2
0.03221857 44_Loire-Atlantique:EXPL0007
0.03225283 14_Calvados:EXPL0198
0.03225283 Calvados
0.03232974 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_11
0.03236641 French_Brittany:French23830
0.03238357 25_Doubs:EXPL0057
0.03239655 76_Seine-Maritime:EXPL0027
0.03248012 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_15_2
0.03250232 50_Manche:EXPL0011
0.03255207 French_Occitanie:T_111
0.03255883 French_Alsace:A_36
0.03260374 English_Cornwall:HG00259
0.03262797 French_Occitanie:T_123
0.03271481 Swiss_German:Swiss_German6
0.03274866 FRLarson(Loire)
0.03277875 Belgian:Belgium16
0.03280744 Welsh:WalesL86
0.03281113 French_Pas-de-Calais:French25068
0.03291544 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta3
0.03297781 44_Loire-Atlantique:EXPL0100
0.03297790 French_Alsace:A_29
0.03300256 Belgian:Belgium27
0.03311849 French_Auvergne:C_44
0.03313690 French_Provence:S_22
0.03314007 Scottish:Scottish5
0.03321056 French_Nord:N_40
0.03326138 Welsh:WalesBK21
0.03328288 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_47
0.03330586 French_Nord:N_79
0.03330588 VendéenLorrain(150.000SNPs)
0.03331215 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_23
0.03334568 39_Jura:EXPL0004
0.03338755 French_Provence:provance4409
0.03341768 76_Seine-Maritime:EXPL0020
0.03343848 French_Alsace:A_24_2
0.03344678 French_Provence:provance4509
0.03351896 English:England12
0.03356253 French_Nord:N_98
0.03356447 French_Alsace:A_81
0.03361448 French_Alsace:A_42
0.03362452 17_Charente-Maritime:EXPL0006
0.03364895 French_Nord:N_1
0.03368909 French_Nord:N_21_2
0.03384271 French_Alsace:A_15
0.03384736 79_Deux-Sèvres:EXPL0161
0.03386883 French_Auvergne:C_40
0.03387484 French_Alsace:A_56
0.03390562 Afrikaner:AFR019
0.03393018 Spanish_Girona:BOS011
0.03393568 43_Haute-Loire:EXPL0033
0.03397143 French_Seine-Maritime:French23915
0.03399114 Welsh:WalesCHF63
0.03403006 French_Alsace:A_76
0.03403684 French_Brittany:Rennes_B_25
0.03404905 Welsh:WalesL44
0.03407007 French_Alsace:A_21
0.03409130 French_Nord:N_15
0.03420382 French_Occitanie:T_124
0.03427693 Belgian:Belgium15
0.03435640 French_Occitanie:T_87
0.03437177 French_Alsace:A_51
0.03439570 French_Provence:S_29_2
0.03442296 French_Occitanie:T_29
0.03450495 French_Occitanie:T_119
0.03451690 French_Auvergne:C_21
0.03453962 French_Nord:N_50
0.03461652 French_Alsace:A_45
0.03467142 France_GrandEst_IA2_son.I19358.son.I19362.brother. I19360:I19363
0.03467442 Irish:Irish21
0.03469847 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta2
0.03471086 29_Finistère:EXPL0008
0.03480882 62_Pas-de-Calais:EXPL0090
0.03480956 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Aosta10
0.03485845 French_Alsace:A_23
0.03486169 French_Brittany:French24061
0.03487068 German:German37
0.03487372 FransizienBretonGallo
0.03490940 Belgian:Belgium6
0.03492198 French_Alsace:A_35
0.03495089 French_Paris:83
0.03495670 French_Provence:provance4109
0.03495745 Irish:Irish32
0.03499676 69_Rhône:EXPL0036
0.03503616 German:German7
0.03506375 French_Occitanie:T_7
0.03516665 English_Cornwall:HG00264
0.03516896 Spanish_Lleida:MIQ133
0.03522598 Belgian:Belgium3
0.03525797 Scottish:Scottish9
0.03539184 62_Pas-de-Calais:EXPL0014
0.03541588 Belgian:Belgium18
0.03541845 Afrikaner:AFR076
0.03544038 French_Paris:44
0.03558055 German:German5
0.03558385 49_Maine-et-Loire:EXPL0086
0.03560062 29_Finistère:EXPL0010
0.03560516 France_GrandEst_IA2:I21402
0.03562566 Austrian:Austria4
0.03565739 English_Cornwall:HG00243
0.03568041 73_Savoie:EXPL0138

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0062% / 0.00622597 | R2P
52.1 Italian_Aosta_Valley
47.9 Irish

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0049% / 0.00492053 | R3P
45.3 Irish
43.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
11.5 France_GrandEst_IA1

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0042% / 0.00423074 | R4P
44.2 Irish
39.3 Italian_Aosta_Valley
10.5 France_GrandEst_IA1
6.0 Basque_Spanish_Gipuzkoa_Central

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0039% / 0.00385547 | R5P
36.2 Irish
35.6 Italian_Aosta_Valley
9.8 Dutch
9.7 France_GrandEst_IA1
8.7 Basque_Spanish_Gipuzkoa_Central

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0031% / 0.00313958 | R6P
35.7 Irish
23.4 Italian_Aosta_Valley
15.5 Dutch
12.6 Basque_Spanish_Gipuzkoa_Central
10.3 France_GrandEst_IA1
2.5 Yemenite_Mahra

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0031% / 0.00313958 | R7P
35.7 Irish
23.4 Italian_Aosta_Valley
15.5 Dutch
12.6 Basque_Spanish_Gipuzkoa_Central
10.3 France_GrandEst_IA1
2.5 Yemenite_Mahra

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0047% / 0.00471865 | ADC: 0.25x RC
23.2 Irish
15.2 French_Alsace
15.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
14.7 French_Brittany
9.6 French_Paris
9.1 French_Auvergne
5.6 German
5.1 Basque_Spanish_Gipuzkoa_Central
2.3 Spanish_Valencia

Target: BretonCentralFrench(Tours-Poitou)
Distance: 0.0030% / 0.00302775
35.2 Irish
18.4 Italian_Aosta_Valley
13.0 Basque_Spanish_Gipuzkoa_Central
8.6 Dutch
6.9 France_GrandEst_IA1
4.9 French_Paris
3.9 French_Alsace
3.7 French_Brittany
2.1 Welsh
1.6 Yemenite_Mahra
1.1 Iranian_Jew
0.6 Greek_Crete



Pictures of his face
1m77/5’10
Mostly dark brown eyes
Kind of "chesnut hair" (his hair appears more "dark brown/black" than chestnut due to poor photo quality, but it can be seen in two photos -younger and another older- that his hair is more "chestnut" and quite typical color shade found even among French people from Central and north-west):

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094185-chesnuthair.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094171-eyess.jpg


Young:
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094369-eeeee.jpg

Now:
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094938-5a1a8c86-4b0b-4e25-935a-67d2a6aba05e.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094995-sssss.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094984-ssss.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094955-ezrzerzer.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094949-ddsqdqsd.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647094941-bybvvqak-400x400.jpg
Xacal
03-12-2022, 02:34 PM
Atlantid
DeckScaffolder
03-12-2022, 02:41 PM
Atlantid. Looks Spanish rather than French...
Flashball
03-12-2022, 04:20 PM
Atlantid. Looks Spanish rather than French...

To be honest, if you had said "we find this kind of traits in Spain" I would have understood and it would certainly be based on a certain reality (I don't know Spain but I want to believe that we find these traits as much in Spain than in Croatia, North Italy and elsewhere, that wouldn't surprise me), however you say that he "looks more like a Spaniard than a Frenchman", but I don't know what you mean by that.

What do you put behind "French"?

His facial features look really French to my eyes, even weirdly "bourgeois" Parisian (native, I mean). Quite good squared jawline, almond eyes...

His pigmentation is found everywhere in France in different level, but nothing too abnormal. I see nothing abnormal for a person like me (and other genealogists with whom I discuss) who watches old documentaries all the time on different villages in different provinces of France (North, South, West and East) and reading many (PDF and physical books) books retracing the history of a town (with photos of natives of the town, photos of postcards, etc., dating from a period preceding big "European" immigration).

For example, do you think he looks very different from the people in this photo? They are natives of Courcelles-lès-Lens, Gouy-Saint-André, and other town in Picardy, in the North of France. Unless they also look more like Spaniards than French? In this case, you must have a different vision of the "typical average French phenotype" and which, strangely, I find neither in old documentaries nor in history books...
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105465-fils.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105473-fils5.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105479-fils3.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104707-500125-360365beh06b08o80l0y24.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104802-117592920-300214741305122-7330572937834652000-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104860-118080299-318344586078380-2992924408057484115-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104981-117862070-4329157273821737-2582231093518336535-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105034-3.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105034-4.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105053-georgesdelattre.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105100-remivenderotte.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105085-pluchartmoine.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105187-frerearriere-grand-perepaternel.jpeg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105237-67404057-342286520045969-5942739049662906368-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105262-117952635-589887521699691-7070347388485056686-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105335-henri-charles-cambray-x-charline-louise-augustine-vendeville.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105334-henri-jean-baptiste-joseph-level.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105338-jpg-1.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105400-venderottexlucas.png



My father does not look like a Dutchman, Sweden, Finnis, Anglo-saxon or whatever, and yet he is a Frenchman from the North of France and looks pretty "normal" among his native from his ancestral village, these are native traits inherited from his family like this young guy... so I don't see how he could looks "Spanish rather than French" , unless you assume he has "outlier" traits compared to the average French native population from Britanny and Central France? But I doubt it... all you have to do is open a "history in memory" book on different towns in Brittany, Center and North of France to see that these traits are not uncommon, they are not outlier facial features, neither in pigmentation to be honest.

Pierre Laval, for example, is truly an outlier, but this young man (with whom I sometimes chat on Twitter) is absolutely not an outlier in terms of his pigmentation and his features.

Here is a documentary on Brittany:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALMMB8FGPGU&ab_channel=INASoci%C3%A9t%C3%A9

Another documentary in the Central France (Berry)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmv3W4xDkO8&ab_channel=INASoci%C3%A9t%C3%A9

They have "normal" facial features to my eyes, maybe weird for a stranger, but not for me.
Immanenz
03-12-2022, 08:22 PM
Atlanto Med with some Cm admxiture (probably)
Ruggery
03-12-2022, 08:57 PM
He look a bit like actor Tony Dalton.
Oliver109
03-12-2022, 10:18 PM
To be honest, if you had said "we find this kind of traits in Spain" I would have understood and it would certainly be based on a certain reality (I don't know Spain but I want to believe that we find these traits as much in Spain than in Croatia, North Italy and elsewhere, that wouldn't surprise me), however you say that he "looks more like a Spaniard than a Frenchman", but I don't know what you mean by that.

What do you put behind "French"?

His facial features look really French to my eyes, even weirdly "bourgeois" Parisian (native, I mean). Quite good squared jawline, almond eyes...

His pigmentation is found everywhere in France in different level, but nothing too abnormal. I see nothing abnormal for a person like me (and other genealogists with whom I discuss) who watches old documentaries all the time on different villages in different provinces of France (North, South, West and East) and reading many (PDF and physical books) books retracing the history of a town (with photos of natives of the town, photos of postcards, etc., dating from a period preceding big "European" immigration).

For example, do you think he looks very different from the people in this photo? They are natives of Courcelles-lès-Lens, Gouy-Saint-André, and other town in Picardy, in the North of France. Unless they also look more like Spaniards than French? In this case, you must have a different vision of the "typical average French phenotype" and which, strangely, I find neither in old documentaries nor in history books...
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105465-fils.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105473-fils5.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105479-fils3.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104707-500125-360365beh06b08o80l0y24.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104802-117592920-300214741305122-7330572937834652000-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104860-118080299-318344586078380-2992924408057484115-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647104981-117862070-4329157273821737-2582231093518336535-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105034-3.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105034-4.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105053-georgesdelattre.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105100-remivenderotte.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105085-pluchartmoine.png
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105187-frerearriere-grand-perepaternel.jpeg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105237-67404057-342286520045969-5942739049662906368-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105262-117952635-589887521699691-7070347388485056686-n.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105335-henri-charles-cambray-x-charline-louise-augustine-vendeville.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105334-henri-jean-baptiste-joseph-level.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105338-jpg-1.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105400-venderottexlucas.png



My father does not look like a Dutchman, Sweden, Finnis, Anglo-saxon or whatever, and yet he is a Frenchman from the North of France and looks pretty "normal" among his native from his ancestral village, these are native traits inherited from his family like this young guy... so I don't see how he could looks "Spanish rather than French" , unless you assume he has "outlier" traits compared to the average French native population from Britanny and Central France? But I doubt it... all you have to do is open a "history in memory" book on different towns in Brittany, Center and North of France to see that these traits are not uncommon, they are not outlier facial features, neither in pigmentation to be honest.

Pierre Laval, for example, is truly an outlier, but this young man (with whom I sometimes chat on Twitter) is absolutely not an outlier in terms of his pigmentation and his features.

Here is a documentary on Brittany:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALMMB8FGPGU&ab_channel=INASoci%C3%A9t%C3%A9

Another documentary in the Central France (Berry)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmv3W4xDkO8&ab_channel=INASoci%C3%A9t%C3%A9

They have "normal" facial features to my eyes, maybe weird for a stranger, but not for me.

They look French, nothing more nothing less, faces too wide to be Spanish really i think, northern France contains some good specimens of the Alpine race.
Latinus
03-13-2022, 12:27 AM
Robust Mediterranid.
DeckScaffolder
03-13-2022, 08:17 AM
To be honest, if you had said "we find this kind of traits in Spain" I would have understood and it would certainly be based on a certain reality (I don't know Spain but I want to believe that we find these traits as much in Spain than in Croatia, North Italy and elsewhere, that wouldn't surprise me), however you say that he "looks more like a Spaniard than a Frenchman", but I don't know what you mean by that.

What do you put behind "French"?

His facial features look really French to my eyes, even weirdly "bourgeois" Parisian (native, I mean). Quite good squared jawline, almond eyes...

His pigmentation is found everywhere in France in different level, but nothing too abnormal. I see nothing abnormal for a person like me (and other genealogists with whom I discuss) who watches old documentaries all the time on different villages in different provinces of France (North, South, West and East) and reading many (PDF and physical books) books retracing the history of a town (with photos of natives of the town, photos of postcards, etc., dating from a period preceding big "European" immigration).

My father does not look like a Dutchman, Sweden, Finnis, Anglo-saxon or whatever, and yet he is a Frenchman from the North of France and looks pretty "normal" among his native from his ancestral village, these are native traits inherited from his family like this young guy... so I don't see how he could looks "Spanish rather than French" , unless you assume he has "outlier" traits compared to the average French native population from Britanny and Central France? But I doubt it... all you have to do is open a "history in memory" book on different towns in Brittany, Center and North of France to see that these traits are not uncommon, they are not outlier facial features, neither in pigmentation to be honest.

Pierre Laval, for example, is truly an outlier, but this young man (with whom I sometimes chat on Twitter) is absolutely not an outlier in terms of his pigmentation and his features.

Maybe I have consumed too much American media of how Spanish people look like. I did not notice how swarthy French's complexion is until now. I always thought this is what a textbook Atlantid would look like:

https://i.ibb.co/S0g5JV5/An-interview-with-Grubby-image-5.jpg,https://i.ibb.co/BgbWKYV/Grubby-IEMSG.jpg,https://i.ibb.co/z2vmWyZ/Anna-H.jpg

That being said, he is from the Netherland and she is from the British Isles.

I can see that many Frenchmen are a mix of Atlantid and Alpinid. Thanks for the visual supplement.

However, this person look suspiciously Indian to me...

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/10/6/1647105034-3.png
DeckScaffolder
03-13-2022, 08:19 AM
Seriously, can people stop quoting a 3 miles long post just to reply with a single sentence?