Slovene DNA Results

[MCMXCV]

Hello, I’ve made this account a while back only to read some interesting threads but never actually commented or posted anything. The following may be more suitable for the 23andMe sub-forum to which I don’t have access, but I don’t mind posting this here if it’s alright. So, to get to the point:

Recently, some of my relatives (a parent and two grandparents) took the DNA test by 23andMe (mine is still in the process), and I’m surprised by the ethnicity estimates. The reason for this is a pretty well-researched family tree, based on which all of my known ancestors (8 generations back) were born in what is today Slovenia. 23andMe places Slovenia into the Eastern European region; therefore, I, naturally, expected that to be the prevailing region. In reality, it varies from 65% to 79%. It’s not a small amount, but if I take my family tree into account, it’s lower than expected. The other regions that appear in the estimates are French & German (10–27%) and Greek & Balkan (2–8%). I do have some unknown ancestors in my family tree, but even if I consider them being something different from Eastern European, it still doesn’t align.
I’ve looked at some posted results of other Slovenes online, and they actually weren’t so much different regarding the estimates. Is it maybe just that 23andMe has a certain reference population for Slovenia, which results in this kind of estimates? Does the geographical location of Slovenia being a small country at the crossroads of certain regions make creating estimates more difficult? Probably the main reason for me to begin being somewhat uncertain about the results (and to a lesser extent my family tree) was my friend getting the results. They showed 0% for both French & German and Greek & Balkan, which I — until then — though was common for all Slovenes to get in their report.

If anyone would be willing to help me get more sense of the results, I’d be extremely grateful!

[Alenka]

I'd suggest uploading your raw data to GEDmatch. It's free.
Results there are more easy to interpret and compare.

[Russki]

Hello

23andme uses Eastern European as a reference to genetic results ranging from Slovak/Ukrainian-like, to Estonian and North Russian-like

Anything more Southern or Western that gets you additional results

French & German in the case of Slovenia reflects your common history with Austria

Greek & Balkan reflects your common history with Balkans

[MCMXCV]

Hello

23andme uses Eastern European as a reference to genetic results ranging from Slovak/Ukrainian-like, to Estonian and North Russian-like

Anything more Southern or Western that gets you additional results

French & German in the case of Slovenia reflects your common history with Austria

Greek & Balkan reflects your common history with Balkans

This is exactly why I’m so surprised by my friend’s results. Only one parent is Slovene, but there is no French & German and Greek & Balkan regions in the estimate of the said friend.

[MCMXCV]

I'd suggest uploading your raw data to GEDmatch. It's free.
Results there are more easy to interpret and compare.

I’ve been thinking about it, and it may be worth a shot. I’m unexperienced with the site, but I hope there is a useful calculator to help me get more insight.

[Russki]

This is exactly why I’m so surprised by my friend’s results. Only one parent is Slovene, but there is no French & German and Greek & Balkan regions in the estimate of the said friend.



If your friend doesn't have ancestry from countries like Slovakia or Poland, he might be an outlier for Slovenes

[Scandal]

If your friend doesn't have ancestry from countries like Slovakia or Poland, he might be an outlier for Slovenes
23andme is sometimes BS. Let's see his gedmatch. I've seen a hungarian individual who scored little or no "french&german" at all on 23andme but then on gedmatch he turned out to have high north atlantic (higher than hungarian avarage). Benyzero on the other hand scored like 40% french-german on 23andme but his north atlantic score is avarage hungarian on k13 and overall his gedmatch is not as western shifted as his 23andme indicates.. In my experience 23andme result doesn't necessarily correlate with gedmatch result.

[MCMXCV]

I’ve uploaded to GEDmatch. Which tools should I use? I’m new to the site, so please bear with me.

[Luke35]

I’ve uploaded to GEDmatch. Which tools should I use? I’m new to the site, so please bear with me.

If you can copy & paste your full list of component values for the Eurogenes K13 and K15 calculators (i.e. North_Atlantic 31.05%, Baltic, 32.77%,..), then myself and others can help you analyze your ancestry further.

[MCMXCV]

If you can copy & paste your full list of component values for the Eurogenes K13 and K15 calculators (i.e. North_Atlantic 31.05%, Baltic, 32.77%,..), then myself and others can help you analyze your ancestry further.

I’ll do this right now. But just to make sure before I do it, I leave the default option Admixture Proportions (With link to Oracle) selected and K15 is the same as Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15?

[MCMXCV]

PARENT

K13

1 North_Atlantic 33.61
2 Baltic 30.97
3 West_Med 16.55
4 West_Asian 8.77
5 East_Med 8.67
6 Siberian 0.58
7 Northeast_African 0.57
8 Red_Sea 0.15
9 East_Asian 0.14

1 Austrian 4.3
2 Hungarian 4.38
3 East_German 5.14
4 Croatian 7.7
5 Moldavian 8.92
6 Serbian 9.16
7 West_German 11.54
8 South_Polish 11.68
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.5
10 South_Dutch 12.68
11 Romanian 13.06
12 Ukrainian 13.48
13 North_German 14.11
14 French 15.2
15 Polish 15.25
16 Bulgarian 15.86
17 North_Swedish 15.94
18 Swedish 16.18
19 Danish 16.65
20 North_Dutch 16.84



K15

1 North_Sea 29.77
2 Baltic 19.26
3 Atlantic 15.07
4 West_Med 13.18
5 Eastern_Euro 9.48
6 West_Asian 6.89
7 East_Med 5.8
8 Northeast_African 0.56

1 Hungarian 7.13
2 East_German 8.2
3 West_German 10.75
4 Moldavian 11.54
5 Austrian 11.79
6 Croatian 11.86
7 Serbian 12.23
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.98
9 South_Dutch 13.09
10 Ukrainian 13.75
11 South_Polish 13.9
12 North_German 14.07
13 Swedish 14.21
14 French 14.4
15 North_Swedish 14.55
16 Romanian 14.81
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.92
18 Norwegian 15.08
19 North_Dutch 15.56
20 Finnish 15.7

[Luke35]

23andme is sometimes BS. Let's see his gedmatch. I've seen a hungarian individual who scored little or no "french&german" at all on 23andme but then on gedmatch he turned out to have high north atlantic (higher than hungarian avarage). Benyzero on the other hand scored like 40% french-german on 23andme but his north atlantic score is avarage hungarian on k13 and overall his gedmatch is not as western shifted as his 23andme indicates.. In my experience 23andme result doesn't necessarily correlate with gedmatch result.

Your comment got me thinking that maybe sometimes we have to look elsewhere for German admixture. I took a look and on K13 Beny has 16.99% West Med (higher than average), and 4.66% West Asian (lower than average). We know that South Germans can have high West Med, and West Germans and also NW Germans can have low West Asian, like Beny. So maybe this is how his German admixture has affected his values, due to recombination? Not to say 23andMe is perfect, it ain't, and I suspect that Beny's 37% NW European on 23andMe is too high still.

[Luke35]

I’ll do this right now. But just to make sure before I do it, I leave the default option Admixture Proportions (With link to Oracle) selected and K15 is the same as Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15?

Yes sir, that's correct.

[MCMXCV]

GRANDPARENT 1

K13

1 North_Atlantic 32.59
2 Baltic 32.48
3 West_Med 16.47
4 East_Med 9.8
5 West_Asian 8.11
6 Northeast_African 0.41
7 Oceanian 0.15

1 Hungarian 4
2 Austrian 5.43
3 East_German 5.83
4 Croatian 6.24
5 Moldavian 7.89
6 Serbian 8.74
7 South_Polish 10.55
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.37
9 Ukrainian 12.24
10 Romanian 12.8
11 West_German 13.04
12 Polish 14.18
13 South_Dutch 14.24
14 North_German 15.4
15 Bulgarian 15.44
16 North_Swedish 16.46
17 French 16.58
18 Southwest_Russian 16.62
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.86
20 Swedish 17.21



K15

1 North_Sea 27.63
2 Baltic 21.82
3 Atlantic 14.66
4 West_Med 11.91
5 Eastern_Euro 11.05
6 East_Med 7.56
7 West_Asian 5.37
8 Northeast_African 0.01

1 Hungarian 5.15
2 East_German 8.41
3 Moldavian 9.32
4 Croatian 9.37
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.09
6 Austrian 10.57
7 Ukrainian 10.87
8 South_Polish 11.15
9 Serbian 11.2
10 West_German 13.28
11 Polish 13.66
12 Romanian 13.82
13 Southwest_Finnish 14.02
14 Finnish 14.44
15 South_Dutch 14.98
16 North_Swedish 15.29
17 North_German 15.59
18 Swedish 15.76
19 Russian_Smolensk 16.12
20 Estonian 16.46

[MCMXCV]

GRANDPARENT 2

K13

1 North_Atlantic 34.47
2 Baltic 34.1
3 West_Med 15.21
4 East_Med 7.13
5 West_Asian 5.43
6 Red_Sea 1.29
7 South_Asian 0.86
8 Amerindian 0.85
9 Oceanian 0.67

1 East_German 3.4
2 Hungarian 4.94
3 Austrian 4.96
4 Croatian 7.23
5 South_Polish 8.88
6 Moldavian 10.03
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.04
8 Ukrainian 10.89
9 Polish 11.91
10 Serbian 12.03
11 West_German 12.92
12 North_Swedish 13.04
13 North_German 13.62
14 South_Dutch 13.79
15 Southwest_Finnish 14.03
16 Swedish 14.52
17 Russian_Smolensk 15.35
18 Southwest_Russian 15.39
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.82
20 Estonian_Polish 15.86



K15

1 North_Sea 25
2 Atlantic 18.55
3 Eastern_Euro 18.2
4 Baltic 17.22
5 West_Med 12.72
6 East_Med 3.25
7 West_Asian 3.08
8 Red_Sea 1.23
9 Oceanian 0.44
10 South_Asian 0.3

1 East_German 5.95
2 Hungarian 7.42
3 Austrian 8.88
4 Croatian 9.17
5 Moldavian 10.34
6 South_Polish 10.75
7 Ukrainian 10.94
8 Southwest_Finnish 11.15
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.3
10 Serbian 11.55
11 Polish 12.01
12 Finnish 12.73
13 South_Dutch 13
14 North_Swedish 13.65
15 West_German 13.7
16 North_German 14.33
17 East_Finnish 14.35
18 Russian_Smolensk 14.93
19 French 15.23
20 Southwest_Russian 15.69

[MCMXCV]

Yes sir, that's correct.

Alright. I posted the Eurogenes results.

[Luke35]

Eurogenes K13 Vahaduo, Large Regions

MCMXCV_Parent,33.61,30.97,16.55,8.77,8.67,0.15,0,0 .14,0.58,0,0,0.57,0

Target: MCMXCV_Parent
Distance: 2.0550% / 2.05503185 | ADC: 0.5x
90.6 Austrian_Styria
5.2 Austrian_Lower_Austria
4.2 Serb

Distance to: MCMXCV_Parent
2.38079819 Austrian_Styria
4.68841124 Austrian_Carinthia
5.19162788 Hungarian
5.23015296 Slovene
5.38298244 Austrian
5.88714702 Croat_Northern
6.96445260 German_Southeast
7.19534572 Hungarian_North
7.23090589 Croat
7.36829017 Csángó-Ceangău
7.73789377 Hungarian_Transylvania
7.74897896 Austrian_Lower_Austria
8.25008485 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
8.27657538 Slovak
8.75729981 Croat_Southern
8.95763362 Austrian_Burgenland
9.16088424 Czech
9.25218353 Lemko_Poland
10.19161911 German
10.33297634 Romanian_North
10.53724347 Bosniak
10.98038706 Ukrainian_Carpathians
11.24893328 Moldovan_North
11.25497668 French_Alsace
11.34766055 Austrian_Tyrol

[Luke35]

On the original spreadsheet, your parent is closest to the old Hungarian average.

Target: MCMXCV_Parent
Distance: 2.7245% / 2.72445242 | ADC: 0.5x RC
70.8 Austrian
29.2 Moldavian

Distance to: MCMXCV_Parent
4.82095426 Hungarian
4.86522353 Austrian
5.87902203 East_German
8.73608036 Croatian
10.16821518 Moldavian
10.54580485 Serbian
13.14025114 West_German
13.17119964 South_Polish
14.11455277 Ukrainian_Lviv
14.50229982 South_Dutch
15.05739021 Romanian
15.24636022 Ukrainian
16.15959158 North_German
17.23456121 Polish
17.25188685 French
18.09367569 North_Swedish
18.31307183 Bulgarian
18.55814646 Swedish
19.11261102 Danish
19.34567394 North_Dutch
19.63819747 Southeast_English
19.84026966 Southwest_Finnish
20.15551785 Southwest_Russian
20.38985042 Ukrainian_Belgorod
20.41209445 Norwegian

[Luke35]

MCMXCV, I suggest that you you take the component values from your family kits and arrange them the way I did for your parent's K13. What you need to do is copy the values from the page before you click "oracle" on the GEDmatch site. So, copy all of the values in that exact order, even the zero's. Then write them like I did for your parent's K13, or for example: Grandparent1,32.59,32.48, but include all 13 values, or in the case of K15, all 15 values. Then start plugging them into the calculators here: https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/

Enjoy!

[Luke35]

MCMXCV, if you don't mind, it would be very interesting to see your 23andMe results.

[MCMXCV]

MCMXCV, I suggest that you you take the component values from your family kits and arrange them the way I did for your K13. What you need to do is copy the values from the page before you click "oracle" on the GEDmatch site. So, copy all of the values in that exact order, even the zero's. Then write them like I did for your K13, or for example: Grandparent1,32.59,32.48, but include all 13 values, or in the case of K15, all 15 values. Then start plugging them into the calculators here: https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/

Enjoy!

Alright, thanks! I saw such calculators before but didn’t know what was to be put into the target, and now I know. You really helped me a lot.

Also, does what you posted above mean some of my ancestors were from Hungary? From what I know from my family tree, they do come from a border region right next to Hungary, so such admixture isn’t really a surprise.

[Luke35]

Alright, thanks! I saw such calculators before but didn’t know what was to be put into the target, and now I know. You really helped me a lot.

Also, does what you posted above mean some of my ancestors were from Hungary? From what I know from my family tree, they do come from a border region right next to Hungary, so such admixture isn’t really a surprise.

My pleasure, happy to help.

It could be Hungarian admix, or maybe it is simply deeper German admix that his pulling your parent slightly away from the Slovene average. Important to remember that these are just population averages, even among people with deep, seemingly unmixed ancestry from a place, the results can veer away from the average a little.

[ph2ter]

PARENT

K13

1 North_Atlantic 33.61
2 Baltic 30.97
3 West_Med 16.55
4 West_Asian 8.77
5 East_Med 8.67
6 Siberian 0.58
7 Northeast_African 0.57
8 Red_Sea 0.15
9 East_Asian 0.14

1 Austrian 4.3
2 Hungarian 4.38
3 East_German 5.14
4 Croatian 7.7
5 Moldavian 8.92
6 Serbian 9.16
7 West_German 11.54
8 South_Polish 11.68
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.5
10 South_Dutch 12.68
11 Romanian 13.06
12 Ukrainian 13.48
13 North_German 14.11
14 French 15.2
15 Polish 15.25
16 Bulgarian 15.86
17 North_Swedish 15.94
18 Swedish 16.18
19 Danish 16.65
20 North_Dutch 16.84



K15

1 North_Sea 29.77
2 Baltic 19.26
3 Atlantic 15.07
4 West_Med 13.18
5 Eastern_Euro 9.48
6 West_Asian 6.89
7 East_Med 5.8
8 Northeast_African 0.56

1 Hungarian 7.13
2 East_German 8.2
3 West_German 10.75
4 Moldavian 11.54
5 Austrian 11.79
6 Croatian 11.86
7 Serbian 12.23
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.98
9 South_Dutch 13.09
10 Ukrainian 13.75
11 South_Polish 13.9
12 North_German 14.07
13 Swedish 14.21
14 French 14.4
15 North_Swedish 14.55
16 Romanian 14.81
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.92
18 Norwegian 15.08
19 North_Dutch 15.56
20 Finnish 15.7


I am similar to your grandparent2:


https://i.imgur.com/XXsXsoc.png
https://i.imgur.com/r4H8EF5.png
https://i.imgur.com/4iv7LId.png
https://i.imgur.com/3OBGthA.png

https://i.imgur.com/c456Hcs.png

[MCMXCV]

MCMXCV, if you don't mind, it would be very interesting to see your 23andMe results.

I’ll post them. Do you want to see the subdivisions as well or are the percentages of the main regions enough?

[Luke35]

I’ll post them. Do you want to see the subdivisions as well or are the percentages of the main regions enough?

Main regions plus the subregions i.e. French and German, etc. would be great.

It would be interesting to see your recent ancestor locations too, but no biggie.

[MCMXCV]

I am similar to your grandparent2:


https://i.imgur.com/XXsXsoc.png
https://i.imgur.com/r4H8EF5.png
https://i.imgur.com/4iv7LId.png
https://i.imgur.com/3OBGthA.png

https://i.imgur.com/c456Hcs.png

Wow! Thanks a lot for these maps! Basically all my known ancestors come just east from the most red area in the first depiction, from the circle above which it says Austrian_Styria_Slovene (the emboldened part).
Do you have any know ancestors from Bohemia? For Grandparent 2, I have the most researched family tree, but still only Slovenia…

[MCMXCV]

Main regions plus the subregions i.e. French and German, etc. would be great.

It would be interesting to see your recent ancestor locations too, but no biggie.

Alright. I’ll post them the first thing tomorrow morning.

[Alenka]

Here's your parent (p), grandparent1 (gp1), and grandparent2 (gp2) plotted on a Eurogenes K15 PCA map.
For comparison, those black dots are from a genetic study on Slovenians, samples taken from Ljubljana.

https://i.imgur.com/khjFAFg.png

[ph2ter]

Wow! Thanks a lot for these maps! Basically all my known ancestors come just east from the most red area in the first depiction, from the circle above which it says Austrian_Styria_Slovene (the emboldened part).
Do you have any know ancestors from Bohemia? For Grandparent 2, I have the most researched family tree, but still only Slovenia…

No, I don't have anybody from Bohemia. Only Zagorje in Croatia and border area of Slovenia. From where is your gp2?

[Luke35]

Alright. I’ll post them the first thing tomorrow morning.

Cool, look forward to seeing them.

I am sorry, I had misunderstood your original post, I just re-read it and saw that your personal 23andMe result is still pending - it is your other family members results that are actually finished. I'll go back and edit my posts to accurately reflect that I was posting your parent's K13, not yours.

[MCMXCV]

No, I don't have anybody from Bohemia. Only Zagorje in Croatia and border area of Slovenia. From where is your gp2?

The ancestors of Grandparent 2 come from the regions № 21 and 08 on this map (https://uc6eb06ae57f7e95d49fd07e00f9.previews.dropboxuserc ontent.com/p/thumb/ABdWIHjME7oT-fRG-VcF83AxzvDmLgWtUv34HDiRijnpjPXaAZMuuh-aY30XDbIl3c4W7xyxxZwU2vu_nXm8lG7VV7_eo_yJOw4_WVGkc wzDFquepkg41Y3gWLlDK8a8TW14PIk1-EYGQyDuxNUxgCKP_zZhzHKAhnfLulI4E02mnHms_WR1UA7owJ-0Clf8yQ7ZLa8uiNpTbVcNZnZSHgCk5JNvMpllUuAd97z7athow ABjoF6Gvela-lkSwsePg9cDDFyXu-sgUVMbtOrVpn50klcph0v3mN4QAiZE-gJ_f7NGaupSt0IJhmqEuUUAtvHzk-HKXTbgBoI7Zd0vSKpITQ-_KkzcX-S-8YmbdhSK4_fLRNtSQvqbP_gUoSKBgsYvo9bT35QleCvSidqZfO VK-pUKrgHxzHdlyDurvdIxgQ/p.png). Most from the eastern half of 21 and a few from 08. One — and with them likely that whole branch from — also from the northernmost part of 42, right on the border with 21.
The four regions with emboldened borders represent all my ancestor’s birthplaces (from all branches) of which I’m aware.

[MCMXCV]

PARENT

European 99.9%

Eastern European 78.9%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Ljubljana
2. Administrative unit Maribor
3. Lendava
4. Novo Mesto
5. Ribnica

Northwestern European 10.1%
French & German 10.1%
Austria Possible Match
1. Styria
2. Upper Austria
3. Carinthia
4. Vienna
Germany Possible Match
1. Bavaria
2. Berlin
3. North Rhine-Westphalia
4. Baden-Württemberg
5. Rhineland-Palatinate

Southern European 2.1%
Greek & Balkan 1.7%
Croatia Possible Match
1. Zagreb
2. Primorje-Gorski Kotar County
3. Zadar County
Broadly Southern European 0.4%

Ashkenazi Jewish 1.6%

Broadly European 7.2%

Unassigned 0.1%

[MCMXCV]

GRANDPARENT 1

European 100%

Eastern European 65.4%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Ljubljana
2. Postojna
3. Krško
4. Novo Mesto

Northwestern European 27.0%
French & German 27.0%

Southern European 4.2%
Greek & Balkan 4.2%
Croatia Possible Match
1. Zadar County
2. Primorje-Gorski Kotar County
3. Split-Dalmatia County

Broadly European 3.4%

[MCMXCV]

GRANDPARENT 2

European 100%

Eastern European 68.4%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Ljubljana
2. Lendava
Poland Possible Match
1. Podkarpackie Voivodeship
2. Lesser Poland Voivodeship
3. Silesian Voivodeship
4. Łódź Voivodeship
5. Greater Poland Voivodeship
6. Masovian Voivodeship
7. Lower Silesian Voivodeship
Russia Possible Match
1. Moscow Oblast
2. Irkutsk Oblast
3. Novosibirsk Oblast
4. Saint Petersburg
5. Kemerovo Oblast
6. Tula Oblast

Northwestern European 19.5%
French & German 18.6%
Austria Possible Match
1. Burgenland
2. Styria
Germany Possible Match
1. North Rhine-Westphalia
2. Bavaria
3. Hamburg
4. Hesse
Finnish 0.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.3%

Southern European 8.2%
Greek & Balkan 8.2%
Croatia Possible Match
1. Split-Dalmatia County
2. Dubrovnik-Neretva County
3. Karlovac County
4. Primorje-Gorski Kotar County

Broadly European 3.9%

[Jana]

All these are normal Slovene results.
Is any of these samples 4/4 grandparents full ethnic Slovenian? If yes, I can include them in Slovenian genetic average.

[MCMXCV]

No problem. My initial sample failed and had to send in another one; therefore, I expect my own results in a month or so.
I posted the 23andMe results of my family above.

[ph2ter]

The ancestors of Grandparent 2 come from the regions № 21 and 08 on this map (https://uc6eb06ae57f7e95d49fd07e00f9.previews.dropboxuserc ontent.com/p/thumb/ABdWIHjME7oT-fRG-VcF83AxzvDmLgWtUv34HDiRijnpjPXaAZMuuh-aY30XDbIl3c4W7xyxxZwU2vu_nXm8lG7VV7_eo_yJOw4_WVGkc wzDFquepkg41Y3gWLlDK8a8TW14PIk1-EYGQyDuxNUxgCKP_zZhzHKAhnfLulI4E02mnHms_WR1UA7owJ-0Clf8yQ7ZLa8uiNpTbVcNZnZSHgCk5JNvMpllUuAd97z7athow ABjoF6Gvela-lkSwsePg9cDDFyXu-sgUVMbtOrVpn50klcph0v3mN4QAiZE-gJ_f7NGaupSt0IJhmqEuUUAtvHzk-HKXTbgBoI7Zd0vSKpITQ-_KkzcX-S-8YmbdhSK4_fLRNtSQvqbP_gUoSKBgsYvo9bT35QleCvSidqZfO VK-pUKrgHxzHdlyDurvdIxgQ/p.png). Most from the eastern half of 21 and a few from 08. One — and with them likely that whole branch from — also from the northernmost part of 42, right on the border with 21.
The four regions with emboldened borders represent all my ancestor’s birthplaces (from all branches) of which I’m aware.
Thanks.
I have some ancestors born about 1800 in the region number 54 on your map.

[MCMXCV]

They all have 4/4 grandparents born within present-day Slovenia, except Grandparent 1, where one grandparent is unknown.

[MCMXCV]

Cool, look forward to seeing them.

I am sorry, I had misunderstood your original post, I just re-read it and saw that your personal 23andMe result is still pending - it is your other family members results that are actually finished. I'll go back and edit my posts to accurately reflect that I was posting your parent's K13, not yours.

No problem. My initial sample failed and had to send in another one; therefore, I expect my own results in a month or so.
I posted the 23andMe results of my family above.

[MCMXCV]

All these are normal Slovene results.
Is any of these samples 4/4 grandparents full ethnic Slovenian? If yes, I can include them in Slovenian genetic average.


They all have 4/4 grandparents born within present-day Slovenia, except Grandparent 1, where one grandparent is unknown.

[Jana]

They all have 4/4 grandparents born within present-day Slovenia, except Grandparent 1, where one grandparent is unknown.

Thanks. But were their ancestors all ethnic Slovenes or maybe some Germans/Hungarians eto too?

[MCMXCV]

Silly question, but is there an option to delete replies? I accidentally replied without quoting two times. Only later realised, I could edit it instead of answering again…

[MCMXCV]

Thanks. But were their ancestors all ethnic Slovenes or maybe some Germans/Hungarians eto too?

This isn’t easy to answer. Hungarians no, but regarding Germans it’s hard to say.
For my tested parent, I’d answer yes, they were ethnically Slovene.
Grandparent 2 has some ancestors originating from the area which used to be ethnically German before WWII, and they told me how a great-grandfather was “German”.

[MCMXCV]

Here's your parent (p), grandparent1 (gp1), and grandparent2 (gp2) plotted on a Eurogenes K15 PCA map.
For comparison, those black dots are from a genetic study on Slovenians, samples taken from Ljubljana.

https://i.imgur.com/khjFAFg.png

Thanks! By the looks of it, they don’t seem an outlier.

[MCMXCV]

Thanks.
I have some ancestors born about 1800 in the region number 54 on your map.

Looking at your posted maps and comparing them with the 23andMe estimates, I find it interesting how Grandparent 2 with the largest Greek & Balkan percentage (8.2%) has the least coloured regions in that area on your map. Serbia and parts of Bosnia especially stand out, being almost completely blue, while it’s green to yellow in the other two maps, whose tested persons only have 2.1%/1.7% and 4.2% of Greek & Balkan estimates in comparison.

[ph2ter]

Thanks! By the looks of it, they don’t seem an outlier.

Here is my K13 PCA with your kits.

https://i.imgur.com/mlaF5ly.png

labeled
https://i.imgur.com/awWLUcJ.png

[Luke35]

GRANDPARENT 2

European 100%

Eastern European 68.4%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Ljubljana
2. Lendava
Poland Possible Match
1. Podkarpackie Voivodeship
2. Lesser Poland Voivodeship
3. Silesian Voivodeship
4. Łódź Voivodeship
5. Greater Poland Voivodeship
6. Masovian Voivodeship
7. Lower Silesian Voivodeship
Russia Possible Match
1. Moscow Oblast
2. Irkutsk Oblast
3. Novosibirsk Oblast
4. Saint Petersburg
5. Kemerovo Oblast
6. Tula Oblast

Northwestern European 19.5%
French & German 18.6%
Austria Possible Match
1. Burgenland
2. Styria
Germany Possible Match
1. North Rhine-Westphalia
2. Bavaria
3. Hamburg
4. Hesse
Finnish 0.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.3%

Southern European 8.2%
Greek & Balkan 8.2%
Croatia Possible Match
1. Split-Dalmatia County
2. Dubrovnik-Neretva County
3. Karlovac County
4. Primorje-Gorski Kotar County

Broadly European 3.9%

Results look totally normal and the 23andMe results and GEDmatch look to be copesetic.

So the grandparent who scores higher French & German is infact the grandparent with a possible German ancestor? Also, is your tested parent the child of your grandparents? If so, and the accounts are connected, then your parent will be phased, and their estimate is theoretically the most accurate.

What's interesting is that these 23andMe results, and also the GED results, are very similar to how many Hungarians score. The main difference I can see as far as 23andMe results is the Slovenia recent ancestor location. I don't think Hungarians usually score Slovenia at all.

[MCMXCV]

Results look totally normal and the 23andMe results and GEDmatch look to be copesetic.

So the grandparent who scores higher French & German is infact the grandparent with a possible German ancestor? Also, is your tested parent the child of your grandparents? If so, and the accounts are connected, then your parent will be phased, and their estimate is theoretically the most accurate.

What's interesting is that these 23andMe results, and also the GED results, are very similar to how many Hungarians score. The main difference I can see as far as 23andMe results is the Slovenia recent ancestor location. I don't think Hungarians usually score Slovenia at all.

Grandparent 1 has an unknown grandfather. There was some theorisation who it may be, but that would require some Italian admixture, which rules out that possibility. Therefore, the identity remains unknown. Overall, the family tree of Grandparent 1 is the least explored by far when compared to other three of my grandparents. Currently, though, they don’t seem any more or less German than most of my other ancestors.
Given having the highest French & German estimate of the three (27%), I’m surprised 23andMe wasn’t able to break it down at least into countries if not subregions. When I uploaded raw data to MyHeritage, Grandparent 1 was the only one with a genetic group which didn’t disappear at the highest confidence level, namely Northern Switzerland, Southern Germany, Eastern France and Western Austria. Albeit, I’ve read MyHeritage is the least reliable…

The tested parent is the child of Grandparent 1, while Grandparent 2 is unrelated to them. The percentages and the raw data I posted for Parent are those after phasing. While they are indeed likely more accurate, it was somewhat disappointing phasing increased the broadly estimates and gave 0.1% Unassigned which wasn’t there before.

Phasing also revealed 1.6% of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry comes from the untested grandparent and was unexpected. Unlike 0.6% Finnish with Grandparent 2, I suppose that isn’t just noise. What also surprised me is how Grandparent 2 had Poland and Russia as Possible Matches, unlike the other two family members, who only got Slovenia in Eastern European. None of them as Highly Likely Match, though.

Here (https://uc6eb06ae57f7e95d49fd07e00f9.previews.dropboxuserc ontent.com/p/thumb/ABdWIHjME7oT-fRG-VcF83AxzvDmLgWtUv34HDiRijnpjPXaAZMuuh-aY30XDbIl3c4W7xyxxZwU2vu_nXm8lG7VV7_eo_yJOw4_WVGkc wzDFquepkg41Y3gWLlDK8a8TW14PIk1-EYGQyDuxNUxgCKP_zZhzHKAhnfLulI4E02mnHms_WR1UA7owJ-0Clf8yQ7ZLa8uiNpTbVcNZnZSHgCk5JNvMpllUuAd97z7athow ABjoF6Gvela-lkSwsePg9cDDFyXu-sgUVMbtOrVpn50klcph0v3mN4QAiZE-gJ_f7NGaupSt0IJhmqEuUUAtvHzk-HKXTbgBoI7Zd0vSKpITQ-_KkzcX-S-8YmbdhSK4_fLRNtSQvqbP_gUoSKBgsYvo9bT35QleCvSidqZfO VK-pUKrgHxzHdlyDurvdIxgQ/p.png), I posted the regions where my known ancestors were born. If you look eastern from there, regions № 36 and 22 used to be part of the Hungarian half of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before 1918. It maybe isn’t directly next to the ethnic border with Hungarians, but it neighboured the historically Hungarian territory. It could potentially explain the similarity to Hungarian results.

Just, overall, the reason why I wasn’t so sure about my results — besides my friend not getting any French & German and Greek & Balkan — was seeing videos online how certain people could easily pinpoint an ancestors in their family tree with the given ancestry, including the subregions. I suspect that’s much rarer in reality.

[Jana]

here are your family updated Vahaduo K13 results:

Distance to: Parent

2.38079819 Austrian_Styria
3.39140089 German_County_Glatz
4.34259139 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
4.52778091 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.68841124 Austrian_Carinthia
5.23015296 Slovene
5.93997475 Croat_Northwest
5.97893803 Hungarian_Alföld
6.16171242 German_West_Bohemia
6.31285197 Croat_Central
6.38570278 German_Bavarian_Swabia
6.51891095 German_North_Bohemia
6.96445260 German_Saxony
7.09625958 Croat_Kvarner
7.17145034 German_Lower_Silesia
7.19534572 Hungarian_North
7.35953803 German_Thuringia_East
7.36829017 Csángó-Ceangău
7.55206594 German_Thuringia_Central
7.73789377 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
7.74897896 Austrian_Lower_Austria
7.81591325 Croat_Lika
8.24588989 Croat_Istria
8.25008485 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
8.27657538 Slovak

Distance to: Grand Parent 1

2.99424448 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
3.00389747 Austrian_Styria
3.16780681 Austrian_Carinthia
3.55156304 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.72562746 Slovene
4.46357480 Croat_Central
4.53622089 Hungarian_Alföld
4.56487678 Croat_Northwest
4.69094873 German_County_Glatz
5.55382751 Hungarian_North
5.61021390 Croat_Kvarner
6.23755561 Croat_Lika
6.57974924 German_Lower_Silesia
6.76781353 Croat_Istria
6.87789939 Slovak
7.03385385 Csángó-Ceangău
7.28600027 German_North_Bohemia
7.33209383 German_Bavarian_Swabia
7.33788798 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
7.40173628 Lemko_Poland
7.49727284 Croat_Dalmatia
7.52642013 Croat_Bosnia
7.53254273 Croat_Slavonia
7.64560658 Bosniak_Krajina_West
7.66966101 German_West_Bohemia

Distance to: Grand Parent 2

3.55253431 Slovene
3.73753930 Austrian_Styria
3.91661844 German_Lower_Silesia
4.38369707 Austrian_Carinthia
4.39072887 Croat_Northwest
4.76281429 German_County_Glatz
4.88280657 German_North_Bohemia
5.13564991 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
5.17420525 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
5.40496068 German_Thuringia_East
5.45559346 Slovak
5.72117121 Czech
5.82716054 Hungarian_North
6.07096368 German_Saxony
6.56428976 Croat_Central
6.57807723 German_Thuringia_Central
6.76124988 Hungarian_Alföld
7.02878368 German_West_Prussia
8.27908207 German_Saxony-Anhalt_South
8.31010830 Lemko_Poland
8.49858223 German_West_Bohemia
8.67187408 Sorb_Saxony_Kamenz
8.71808465 German_Farther_Pomerania
8.79850555 Croat_Kvarner
9.17620292 German_Mecklenburg_Center/East

[Petalpusher]

It doesn't make much sense as to how Gedmatch results can be such a divergence from the very information it has received from said DNA site.

It has little correlation how much you score North Atlantic, Baltic and whatever, to your 23andme score of national categories. You can be for example half English half Nigeria and obviously get lower "N.Atlantic" than most countries in Europe as it's gonna be cut in half, while still getting around 50% British and Irish on 23andme, as it should be. All these scores in 23andme are more based on IBD and specific local markers than pure admixture proportions, even less compared to made up Eurogenes components.

If someone doesn't score F&G, he just doesn't have enough IBD/blocks in common, either too old, diluted or too mixed with other things to detect it with confidence as a percentage of this specific group. It improved a lot through the years. For example when i tested i had something like 35% F&G + a lot of British (which i was sure i didn't have), now im over 75% F&G, and i think it's the case for anyone with real recent ancestry from this part of Europe. It's more or less a Rhine valley peak with its large vicinity that is shared around.

[MCMXCV]

PARENT

https://uc7b2952535358b9da4ff37beb84.previews.dropboxuserc ontent.com/p/thumb/ABdZzrYHSGWirifX7xeIKr05tUPjj9QwHjfcc_KyewU-BNbLK_TVW-Zg0Gs8D7ZDVFVYUr7gnl9G8W2nfnqaeY_eH3hvsEXfjzoDXSjV BDupxSo1iEnFbzStkF_xjuJHxpnWP_FrIiHzBYJ2L1jylp7jcY uIHkQ_BOtL5foiPjiVOVJUBWJ-Zl55BKarsGG7NvktoB8h9sT-bzgjBVIY2oSCq6xI4bDKjawwRgPhSMTjzyfwdsz9K7pxT3K-Z7XAzCq9EOBRxuyRjsh-d0C0hBD_QC4xmiGxSrcovl8VqVK_wYlwtUKqsE7uUQIQScyHhM QY2ybobmZkv5DEwgrkEaHauzKgGKCsOEX1K_DvQk1--yjfyGCHiFQiElvtYVbzmN-LUqkJpvV_eSIwn9fn2ABjDJX4bI1xmW8x2hu-gS4VXw/p.png



GRANDPARENT 1

https://uc2ac6136ccc2e14c241deb178ff.previews.dropboxuserc ontent.com/p/thumb/ABcB9KpRudgzt8JfOjqwP5etrnRviQKRhpnY8LltYzt7LYk1uF 56pTJemqjrRvzZpclXhEhwXxBtPXQIAPStb7d9Pp_ae9JvRgyb 7_r0R1ehxdxZu4ITd6jkZ5RS9cFYlnr9cdG8Ynr05aj52InO7v 3X75s3p6NExZJ2VT0g4AkKWVUGslYTyrCT3zt1OlLCd-1jQ_0UR8NKVQVKSn5iR00P46JORaG04opPNGT5tPKLQJF0jkQL lZXJtYdvc9fXBeV1NVDViNhTNDrSqZiHqrqJdjE2I6_vmjw6hm KO-26fo1cN-vjx2eqC_IvSLkuGYvJ52em2w_MQwhzj2IR_9slo_mQwKlAmLVQ AY78Sp3y0_kO4lk4vVAiqceaCg-CQ1LpJK67ikQ96R-ujDmsIFwOhUi87ao1q8dkXvcncIlZpXA/p.png



GRANDPARENT 2

https://uc90d49639246822cfb998ae69b1.previews.dropboxuserc ontent.com/p/thumb/ABfprZ6E7VaOm6-BEIQv0uT34dL2BYkAg2SbnK8qCPk-Oj9DM9xTR8sfXlpig9qA_qdeeJTHSBPpz3GLNSGJkN2rB83DRM q1KDZ8uFGD-HR8_7MwdMYsJDJRHTCY5-736qK6E3X-lklI99ApbS8ewSQcougl3uj6CzWRs8ziRmOpH5mHB-gLJy0M_nJ-YriA1zIAIaVn2JDmaf4kTfb9w0pTyklXhKmlcbYjZXYC731THq emGkkRinvIpQHG7Shp7nF7YhQSrcnsJAM4ZGqv6QshXZrvZkkP 761Lqy57ZtJtgm-bwcx4QuXUKxmbYNtroPozQJFOhZxnxxnhcnncOt7pfmEcWwGxv efBSlA1IE058X0p7X2lFNVEAgxsizG2bnqLGAzfBIum1DBhO0Q BPvobQ9I7Ouv4EypTwdhdxCO6vA/p.png

[MCMXCV]

here are your family updated Vahaduo K13 results:

Distance to: Parent

2.38079819 Austrian_Styria
3.39140089 German_County_Glatz
4.34259139 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
4.52778091 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.68841124 Austrian_Carinthia
5.23015296 Slovene
5.93997475 Croat_Northwest
5.97893803 Hungarian_Alföld
6.16171242 German_West_Bohemia
6.31285197 Croat_Central
6.38570278 German_Bavarian_Swabia
6.51891095 German_North_Bohemia
6.96445260 German_Saxony
7.09625958 Croat_Kvarner
7.17145034 German_Lower_Silesia
7.19534572 Hungarian_North
7.35953803 German_Thuringia_East
7.36829017 Csángó-Ceangău
7.55206594 German_Thuringia_Central
7.73789377 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
7.74897896 Austrian_Lower_Austria
7.81591325 Croat_Lika
8.24588989 Croat_Istria
8.25008485 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
8.27657538 Slovak

Distance to: Grand Parent 1

2.99424448 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
3.00389747 Austrian_Styria
3.16780681 Austrian_Carinthia
3.55156304 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.72562746 Slovene
4.46357480 Croat_Central
4.53622089 Hungarian_Alföld
4.56487678 Croat_Northwest
4.69094873 German_County_Glatz
5.55382751 Hungarian_North
5.61021390 Croat_Kvarner
6.23755561 Croat_Lika
6.57974924 German_Lower_Silesia
6.76781353 Croat_Istria
6.87789939 Slovak
7.03385385 Csángó-Ceangău
7.28600027 German_North_Bohemia
7.33209383 German_Bavarian_Swabia
7.33788798 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
7.40173628 Lemko_Poland
7.49727284 Croat_Dalmatia
7.52642013 Croat_Bosnia
7.53254273 Croat_Slavonia
7.64560658 Bosniak_Krajina_West
7.66966101 German_West_Bohemia

Distance to: Grand Parent 2

3.55253431 Slovene
3.73753930 Austrian_Styria
3.91661844 German_Lower_Silesia
4.38369707 Austrian_Carinthia
4.39072887 Croat_Northwest
4.76281429 German_County_Glatz
4.88280657 German_North_Bohemia
5.13564991 Croat_Gorski_Kotar
5.17420525 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
5.40496068 German_Thuringia_East
5.45559346 Slovak
5.72117121 Czech
5.82716054 Hungarian_North
6.07096368 German_Saxony
6.56428976 Croat_Central
6.57807723 German_Thuringia_Central
6.76124988 Hungarian_Alföld
7.02878368 German_West_Prussia
8.27908207 German_Saxony-Anhalt_South
8.31010830 Lemko_Poland
8.49858223 German_West_Bohemia
8.67187408 Sorb_Saxony_Kamenz
8.71808465 German_Farther_Pomerania
8.79850555 Croat_Kvarner
9.17620292 German_Mecklenburg_Center/East

Interesting to see Gorski Kotar as the closest for Grandparent 1. 23andMe also detects it, with the same intensity as Zadar County.

And this County of Glatz/Kłodzko/Kladsko keeps appearing. It was also prominently displayed on the maps posted by ph2ter (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?360911-Slovene-DNA-Results&p=7460594&viewfull=1#post7460594).

[ph2ter]

Interesting to see Gorski Kotar as the closest for Grandparent 1. 23andMe also detects it, with the same intensity as Zadar County.

And this County of Glatz/Kłodzko/Kladsko keeps appearing. It was also prominently displayed on the maps posted by ph2ter (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?360911-Slovene-DNA-Results&p=7460594&viewfull=1#post7460594).

Gorski Kotar is close to Kočevje (Goetsche) with significant German population before WW II. Glatz is the same case.

[MCMXCV]

I’m reviving this thread with my personal results. I’m surprised I only got a single subdivision in Slovenia and (unexpectedly) Hungary and no further breakdown for French & German (similar to Grandparent 1 (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?360911-Slovene-DNA-Results&p=7460820&viewfull=1#post7460820)). Given the fact my tested relatives got much more of them, I thought I would as well. But, overall, the estimates aren’t really a surprise.

[MCMXCV]

ME

European 100%

Eastern European 72.0%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Lendava
Hungary Possible Match
1. Budapest

Northwestern European 11.7%
French & German 11.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.1%

Southern European 7.8%
Greek & Balkan 6.2%
Croatia
Broadly Southern European 1.6%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.2%

Broadly European 8.3%

[MCMXCV]

ph2ter, would you be so kind to make a map of my results like you’ve done for my relatives? You need K13 and K15 values for that? Or just direct me to a website where I can do it myself. I’m not sure if it’s freely available online.

[ph2ter]

ph2ter, would you be so kind to make a map of my results like you’ve done for my relatives? You need K13 and K15 values for that? Or just direct me to a website where I can do it myself. I’m not sure if it’s freely available online.

Give me your K13.
You cannot do it by yourself. I charge such maps, but I will make this one for free.

[Luke35]

ph2ter, would you be so kind to make a map of my results like you’ve done for my relatives? You need K13 and K15 values for that? Or just direct me to a website where I can do it myself. I’m not sure if it’s freely available online.

Congrats on getting your results. If you feel like posting your K13/K15 values here in the thread I am certainly interested in seeing them.

[MCMXCV]

ME

K13
1 Baltic 33.29
2 North_Atlantic 31.11
3 West_Med 15.87
4 West_Asian 8.49
5 East_Med 6.63
6 Red_Sea 2.33
7 Siberian 1.61
8 Amerindian 0.44
9 South_Asian 0.24

K15
1 North_Sea 26.6
2 Baltic 19.44
3 Atlantic 13.95
4 West_Med 13.86
5 Eastern_Euro 13.29
6 West_Asian 6.81
7 East_Med 3.47
8 Red_Sea 1.49
9 Siberian 0.97
10 Amerindian 0.11
11 South_Asian 0.0

[ph2ter]

ME

K13
1 Baltic 33.29
2 North_Atlantic 31.11
3 West_Med 15.87
4 West_Asian 8.49
5 East_Med 6.63
6 Red_Sea 2.33
7 Siberian 1.61
8 Amerindian 0.44
9 South_Asian 0.24

K15
1 North_Sea 26.6
2 Baltic 19.44
3 Atlantic 13.95
4 West_Med 13.86
5 Eastern_Euro 13.29
6 West_Asian 6.81
7 East_Med 3.47
8 Red_Sea 1.49
9 Siberian 0.97
10 Amerindian 0.11
11 South_Asian 0.0

https://i.imgur.com/jTC5Gah.png

[vbnetkhio]

https://i.imgur.com/jTC5Gah.png

are you using all of these averages?


Serb_CentralCroatia,24.83,30.66,16.70,9.10,15.19,1 .43,0.55,0.29,0.36,0.46,0.31,0.04,0.08
Serb_NorthEastBosnia,25.49,30.63,16.30,8.40,14.66, 1.78,0.54,0.29,0.95,0.55,0.34,0.06,0.01
Serb_CentralSerbia,24.59,29.55,17.43,8.40,16.48,1. 44,0.53,0.23,0.72,0.30,0.31,0.00,0.02
Serb_Dalmatia,25.69,28.77,16.89,9.22,15.58,1.30,0. 60,0.31,0.63,0.45,0.41,0.10,0.06
Serb_EastSerbia,23.79,29.45,16.91,8.77,16.35,2.00, 0.59,0.10,1.00,0.71,0.32,0.00,0.00
Serb_Herzegovina,25.61,27.75,17.32,8.27,16.79,1.96 ,0.27,0.12,0.57,0.52,0.64,0.13,0.05
Serb_KosovoMetohija,25.02,26.73,17.99,8.89,17.80,1 .57,0.22,0.17,0.54,0.52,0.25,0.14,0.16
Serb_BosanskaKrajina,24.77,30.01,16.92,9.30,14.88, 1.51,0.72,0.37,0.42,0.37,0.58,0.01,0.13
Serb_Lika,25.15,29.65,16.89,8.49,15.88,1.59,0.45,0 .18,0.68,0.56,0.31,0.13,0.04
Serb_SoutheastSerbia,23.75,28.51,17.01,9.38,16.94, 2.13,0.43,0.34,0.61,0.40,0.26,0.15,0.11
Serb_SouthwestSerbia,26.38,28.39,16.97,9.07,15.59, 1.51,0.47,0.18,0.57,0.31,0.21,0.20,0.14
Serb_Vojvodina,24.78,27.96,17.42,9.44,16.03,1.69,0 .72,0.40,0.17,0.75,0.47,0.06,0.12
Serb_WestSerbia,25.67,30.22,16.56,8.28,15.69,1.17, 0.61,0.37,0.61,0.39,0.35,0.00,0.08
Vlach_Serbia,22.77,27.08,19.09,10.03,16.82,1.28,0. 34,1.25,0.36,0.49,0.47,0.00,0.17
Montenegro_Old_Herzegovina,25.98,27.45,17.63,8.87, 15.99,1.31,0.38,0.43,0.48,1.15,0.23,0.00,0.13
Montenegro_SouthEast,22.76,25.94,19.54,9.88,17.90, 1.79,0.60,0.25,0.67,0.28,0.30,0.06,0.03

there is an average for the northwestern half of Montenegro (Old herzegovina) (if you're not already using it). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Herzegovina
you can split the western half of Serbia into "West" and "Southwest" ("Podrinje and Posavina" and "Raška" on this map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Serbia#/media/File:Serbia022.png)

also the Serbs from Doboj region are part of the Northeast, not Krajina (they are very similar, but still)

[Luke35]

ME

K13
1 Baltic 33.29
2 North_Atlantic 31.11
3 West_Med 15.87
4 West_Asian 8.49
5 East_Med 6.63
6 Red_Sea 2.33
7 Siberian 1.61
8 Amerindian 0.44
9 South_Asian 0.24

K15
1 North_Sea 26.6
2 Baltic 19.44
3 Atlantic 13.95
4 West_Med 13.86
5 Eastern_Euro 13.29
6 West_Asian 6.81
7 East_Med 3.47
8 Red_Sea 1.49
9 Siberian 0.97
10 Amerindian 0.11
11 South_Asian 0.0


MCMXCV_k13,31.11,33.29,15.87,8.49,6.63,2.33,0.24,0 ,1.61,0.44,0,0,0

MCMXCV_k15,26.6,13.95,19.44,13.29,13.86,6.81,3.47, 1.49,0,0,0.97,0.11,0,0,0



Smaller regions Eurogenes K13:

Target: MCMXCV_k13
Distance: 323.8845% / 3.23884459 | ADC: 0.5x
55.2 Austrian_Styria
18.8 Croat_Northwest
14.2 Ukrainian_Galicia
11.8 Csángó-Ceangău

Distance to: MCMXCV_k13
4.17530837 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.26404737 Croat_Northwest
4.40591648 Slovene
4.48364807 Croat_GorskiKotar
4.53137948 Austrian_Styria
4.96553119 Hungarian_Alföld
5.03074547 Austrian_Carinthia
5.23708889 Croat_Central
5.72265673 Hungarian_North
5.82912515 Slovak
6.15412057 German_County_Glatz
6.22341546 German_Lower_Silesia
6.83617583 Lemko_Poland
6.90506336 Croat_Kvarner
7.11142039 Csángó-Ceangău
7.27578174 Czech
7.45516599 Croat_Lika
7.79901917 Bosniak_Northeast
8.04129965 Bosniak_Central
8.04585608 Bosniak_Krajina_East
8.12213642 Ukrainian_Carpathians
8.37300424 German_Thuringia_East
8.40701493 Ukrainian_Galicia
8.47321663 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
8.50105288 Croat_Istria


Larger regions Eurogenes K13:

Target: MCMXCV_k13
Distance: 309.9751% / 3.09975140 | ADC: 0.5x
65.8 Austrian_Styria
21.4 Ukrainian_Galicia
12.8 Csángó-Ceangău

Distance to: MCMXCV_k13
4.40591648 Slovene
4.53137948 Austrian_Styria
4.64014008 Croat_Northern
4.69075687 Hungarian
5.03074547 Austrian_Carinthia
5.72265673 Hungarian_North
5.82912515 Slovak
6.59812094 Croat
6.83617583 Lemko_Poland
7.11142039 Csángó-Ceangău
7.27578174 Czech
8.12213642 Ukrainian_Carpathians
8.40701493 Ukrainian_Galicia
8.43292950 Croat_Southern
8.47321663 Hungarian_Transylvania
8.89618458 Austrian
8.98943825 German_Southeast
9.56154276 Moldovan_North
9.72730692 Bosniak
9.95591282 Romanian_North
10.43217619 Polish_South
10.74522685 Sorb
11.00389817 Austrian_Lower_Austria
11.14894614 Moldovan_Central
11.15422790 Polish_Subcarpathia


Eurogenes K15 Updated:

Target: MCMXCV_k15
Distance: 547.1387% / 5.47138706 | ADC: 0.5x
68.4 Croat_Bosnia
30.8 East_German
0.8 Polish_Masuria

Distance to: MCMXCV_k15
6.63917069 Croat_Bosnia
7.22724014 Hungarian
8.03821891 Slovak
8.52351183 Slovenian
8.88379986 East_German
9.08004956 Austria-Burgenland
9.11392341 Czech
10.09959900 Moldavian
10.17111105 Kaykavian_Croatian
10.82974146 Croatian
11.69974011 Serbian_Bosnia
11.78470195 Ukrainian_Lviv
12.10190960 Bosnian
12.40889600 Sorb_Lusatia
12.77369954 Austrian
12.98643812 Szekely
13.02688374 South_Polish
13.08110469 Bosniak
13.22866206 Serbian
13.42485754 Polish_Masuria
13.64641345 Romania_Nw
13.86654247 Romania_Ne
14.01860549 Austria-Tyrol
14.34660459 Montenegrin
14.53923657 French_Alsace

[ph2ter]

are you using all of these averages?


Serb_CentralCroatia,24.83,30.66,16.70,9.10,15.19,1 .43,0.55,0.29,0.36,0.46,0.31,0.04,0.08
Serb_NorthEastBosnia,25.49,30.63,16.30,8.40,14.66, 1.78,0.54,0.29,0.95,0.55,0.34,0.06,0.01
Serb_CentralSerbia,24.59,29.55,17.43,8.40,16.48,1. 44,0.53,0.23,0.72,0.30,0.31,0.00,0.02
Serb_Dalmatia,25.69,28.77,16.89,9.22,15.58,1.30,0. 60,0.31,0.63,0.45,0.41,0.10,0.06
Serb_EastSerbia,23.79,29.45,16.91,8.77,16.35,2.00, 0.59,0.10,1.00,0.71,0.32,0.00,0.00
Serb_Herzegovina,25.61,27.75,17.32,8.27,16.79,1.96 ,0.27,0.12,0.57,0.52,0.64,0.13,0.05
Serb_KosovoMetohija,25.02,26.73,17.99,8.89,17.80,1 .57,0.22,0.17,0.54,0.52,0.25,0.14,0.16
Serb_BosanskaKrajina,24.77,30.01,16.92,9.30,14.88, 1.51,0.72,0.37,0.42,0.37,0.58,0.01,0.13
Serb_Lika,25.15,29.65,16.89,8.49,15.88,1.59,0.45,0 .18,0.68,0.56,0.31,0.13,0.04
Serb_SoutheastSerbia,23.75,28.51,17.01,9.38,16.94, 2.13,0.43,0.34,0.61,0.40,0.26,0.15,0.11
Serb_SouthwestSerbia,26.38,28.39,16.97,9.07,15.59, 1.51,0.47,0.18,0.57,0.31,0.21,0.20,0.14
Serb_Vojvodina,24.78,27.96,17.42,9.44,16.03,1.69,0 .72,0.40,0.17,0.75,0.47,0.06,0.12
Serb_WestSerbia,25.67,30.22,16.56,8.28,15.69,1.17, 0.61,0.37,0.61,0.39,0.35,0.00,0.08
Vlach_Serbia,22.77,27.08,19.09,10.03,16.82,1.28,0. 34,1.25,0.36,0.49,0.47,0.00,0.17
Montenegro_Old_Herzegovina,25.98,27.45,17.63,8.87, 15.99,1.31,0.38,0.43,0.48,1.15,0.23,0.00,0.13
Montenegro_SouthEast,22.76,25.94,19.54,9.88,17.90, 1.79,0.60,0.25,0.67,0.28,0.30,0.06,0.03

there is an average for the northwestern half of Montenegro (Old herzegovina) (if you're not already using it). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Herzegovina
you can split the western half of Serbia into "West" and "Southwest" ("Podrinje and Posavina" and "Raška" on this map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Serbia#/media/File:Serbia022.png)

also the Serbs from Doboj region are part of the Northeast, not Krajina (they are very similar, but still)

Here:

https://i.imgur.com/ToRFLo9.png

[MCMXCV]

https://i.imgur.com/jTC5Gah.png

Sincere thanks, ph2ter!

I’m surprised how many more red regions I have compared to my tested family members. The whole Hungary really stands out, аs well as the highlighted regions of northern Croatia and the Hmeljnicjka oblastj in Ukraine.

Also, what does the first map posted here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?360911-Slovene-DNA-Results&p=7460594&viewfull=1#post7460594) (titled MCMXCV_K13) show?

[ph2ter]

Sincere thanks, ph2ter!

I’m surprised how many more red regions I have compared to my tested family members. The whole Hungary really stands out, аs well as the highlighted regions of northern Croatia and the Hmeljnicjka oblastj in Ukraine.

Also, what does the first map posted here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?360911-Slovene-DNA-Results&p=7460594&viewfull=1#post7460594) (titled MCMXCV_K13) show?

Some of your other kits for which I thought that it was yours.

[MCMXCV]

MCMXCV_k13,31.11,33.29,15.87,8.49,6.63,2.33,0.24,0 ,1.61,0.44,0,0,0

MCMXCV_k15,26.6,13.95,19.44,13.29,13.86,6.81,3.47, 1.49,0,0,0.97,0.11,0,0,0



Smaller regions Eurogenes K13:

Target: MCMXCV_k13
Distance: 323.8845% / 3.23884459 | ADC: 0.5x
55.2 Austrian_Styria
18.8 Croat_Northwest
14.2 Ukrainian_Galicia
11.8 Csángó-Ceangău

Distance to: MCMXCV_k13
4.17530837 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.26404737 Croat_Northwest
4.40591648 Slovene
4.48364807 Croat_GorskiKotar
4.53137948 Austrian_Styria
4.96553119 Hungarian_Alföld
5.03074547 Austrian_Carinthia
5.23708889 Croat_Central
5.72265673 Hungarian_North
5.82912515 Slovak
6.15412057 German_County_Glatz
6.22341546 German_Lower_Silesia
6.83617583 Lemko_Poland
6.90506336 Croat_Kvarner
7.11142039 Csángó-Ceangău
7.27578174 Czech
7.45516599 Croat_Lika
7.79901917 Bosniak_Northeast
8.04129965 Bosniak_Central
8.04585608 Bosniak_Krajina_East
8.12213642 Ukrainian_Carpathians
8.37300424 German_Thuringia_East
8.40701493 Ukrainian_Galicia
8.47321663 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
8.50105288 Croat_Istria


Larger regions Eurogenes K13:

Target: MCMXCV_k13
Distance: 309.9751% / 3.09975140 | ADC: 0.5x
65.8 Austrian_Styria
21.4 Ukrainian_Galicia
12.8 Csángó-Ceangău

Distance to: MCMXCV_k13
4.40591648 Slovene
4.53137948 Austrian_Styria
4.64014008 Croat_Northern
4.69075687 Hungarian
5.03074547 Austrian_Carinthia
5.72265673 Hungarian_North
5.82912515 Slovak
6.59812094 Croat
6.83617583 Lemko_Poland
7.11142039 Csángó-Ceangău
7.27578174 Czech
8.12213642 Ukrainian_Carpathians
8.40701493 Ukrainian_Galicia
8.43292950 Croat_Southern
8.47321663 Hungarian_Transylvania
8.89618458 Austrian
8.98943825 German_Southeast
9.56154276 Moldovan_North
9.72730692 Bosniak
9.95591282 Romanian_North
10.43217619 Polish_South
10.74522685 Sorb
11.00389817 Austrian_Lower_Austria
11.14894614 Moldovan_Central
11.15422790 Polish_Subcarpathia


Eurogenes K15 Updated:

Target: MCMXCV_k15
Distance: 547.1387% / 5.47138706 | ADC: 0.5x
68.4 Croat_Bosnia
30.8 East_German
0.8 Polish_Masuria

Distance to: MCMXCV_k15
6.63917069 Croat_Bosnia
7.22724014 Hungarian
8.03821891 Slovak
8.52351183 Slovenian
8.88379986 East_German
9.08004956 Austria-Burgenland
9.11392341 Czech
10.09959900 Moldavian
10.17111105 Kaykavian_Croatian
10.82974146 Croatian
11.69974011 Serbian_Bosnia
11.78470195 Ukrainian_Lviv
12.10190960 Bosnian
12.40889600 Sorb_Lusatia
12.77369954 Austrian
12.98643812 Szekely
13.02688374 South_Polish
13.08110469 Bosniak
13.22866206 Serbian
13.42485754 Polish_Masuria
13.64641345 Romania_Nw
13.86654247 Romania_Ne
14.01860549 Austria-Tyrol
14.34660459 Montenegrin
14.53923657 French_Alsace


I always enjoy seeing these distance estimates, so thanks for these numbers! Why would you say there’s a difference between K13 and K17, with Croat_Bosnia being on the top in the latter?
From what I understand, all these estimates show the genetic similarity to the listed populations, but not necessarily the origin of my ancestors? Or is it way more distanced ancestors? What I’m trying to say is that I can quite confidently state that at least ¾ of my ancestors can be traced back to at least mid-18th century and were all born within present-day Slovenia, and this would go against it. I certainly wouldn’t expect 100% Slovene; I’m just trying to understand.
Can I, for example, expect to find an ancestor who was born in Galicia or comes from an area where Csángós live, when I go further back, or would it be before there’re any records?

[rothaer]

(...)

Great collection of tests!

Did you connect all tested individuals in their parent-child relation (resulting in getting phased against one or two parents and improving the Ancestry Composition of all involved)?

Maybe also interesting: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?361695-Post-your-23andMe-Change-Log!

[rothaer]

(...)

How many % DNA do you have in common with your 4 grandparents (see matching list)? Just curious for the spread (deviation from 25%:25%:25%:25%).

[MCMXCV]

How many % DNA do you have in common with your 4 grandparents (see matching list)? Just curious for the spread (deviation from 25%:25%:25%:25%).

28.19% : 21.81% : 22.02% : 27.98%

It’s Grandparent 1 : untested parent of Parent : Grandparent 2 : other untested grandparent. Doesn’t seem like a significant deviation, although I’m not sure how common that is.

[MCMXCV]

Great collection of tests!

Did you connect all tested individuals in their parent-child relation (resulting in getting phased against one or two parents and improving the Ancestry Composition of all involved)?

Maybe also interesting: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?361695-Post-your-23andMe-Change-Log!

I only saw this after the above reply.

Parent phased against Grandparent 1 (I also saw the estimates prior to that), and I phased against my parent when getting my results. Grandparent 2 is from my untested parent, so there isn’t a connection by phasing, only the usual one.

And thanks for the link. I saw that post, but since tests have been made just recently and there hasn’t been an update, I didn’t think it’s worth sharing. It’s only the initial date and phasing.

[rothaer]

28.19% : 21.81% : 22.02% : 27.98%

It’s Grandparent 1 : untested parent of Parent : Grandparent 2 : other untested grandparent. Doesn’t seem like a significant deviation, although I’m not sure how common that is.

Thanks, neither me.

I've none of my grandparents tested (all deceased), but by comprehensive chromosome painting, resulting in 80% of the DNA getting painted and extrapolation to 100%, I found out that the DNA from one pair of grandparents was inherited as skewed as abt. 35%:15%. I regard that borderline and assess it to be within the 1% most extreme cases.

[MCMXCV]

Thanks, neither me.

I've none of my grandparents tested (all deceased), but by comprehensive chromosome painting, resulting in 80% of the DNA getting painted and extrapolation to 100%, I found out that the DNA from one pair of grandparents was inherited as skewed as abt. 35%:15%. I regard that borderline and assess it to be within the 1% most extreme cases.

My grandparents are 90 and 89. The other two have been deceased for quite some time, so there was never an option to have them tested. Fortunately, my tested grandparents come from each of my parents, so it enables phasing for both of them.

I’m glad you were able to find out your inheritance percentages. 15% does seem low. Do you know whether there’s a tool which calculates an estimate of the missing (grand)parent’s DNA? Eurogenes values or something similar. Something along the lines of deducting the tested parent’s DNA from the child’s and predicting the untested parent’s DNA. I’m not sure if it exists or if it’s even possible. 23andMe does show which ethnicity you got from each parent after phasing, but you cannot just multiply that by two to get the parent’s estimate.

[Luke35]

I always enjoy seeing these distance estimates, so thanks for these numbers! Why would you say there’s a difference between K13 and K17, with Croat_Bosnia being on the top in the latter?
From what I understand, all these estimates show the genetic similarity to the listed populations, but not necessarily the origin of my ancestors? Or is it way more distanced ancestors? What I’m trying to say is that I can quite confidently state that at least ¾ of my ancestors can be traced back to at least mid-18th century and were all born within present-day Slovenia, and this would go against it. I certainly wouldn’t expect 100% Slovene; I’m just trying to understand.
Can I, for example, expect to find an ancestor who was born in Galicia or comes from an area where Csángós live, when I go further back, or would it be before there’re any records?

In my opinion, this is simply genetic similarity to populations/balanced modeling, and likely not indicative of actual ancestry, in your case. So while the results might suggest a Galician or Csangos ancestor, only a paper trail can add validity to that. Otherwise, it is just as likely to be fully attributable to genetic similarity or because of a deviation that you have from the average. It is important to remember that the averages are made up of a number of samples, those sample form a normal range for an ethnicity. My guess is that all family members you posted fall within the normal range of results for full Slovene, even if not right on the average. On an additional note you also are using 23andMe data, which is not quite as good for use with GED/Vahaduo and can skew individual components by 2%.

As far as comparing your K13 and K15.. K13 has been more extensively updated with quality samples across the board, so that could explain the difference. K15 is good for someone like me as it seems to handle my East-West split of German and Hungarian very well, and some people say it handles Western Europe better than K13, but in your case I would suggest K13 is the more reliable of the two. Still, your K15 is quite reasonable, imo.

[Luke35]

My grandparents are 90 and 89. The other two have been deceased for quite some time, so there was never an option to have them tested. Fortunately, my tested grandparents come from each of my parents, so it enables phasing for both of them.

I’m glad you were able to find out your inheritance percentages. 15% does seem low. Do you know whether there’s a tool which calculates an estimate of the missing (grand)parent’s DNA? Eurogenes values or something similar. Something along the lines of deducting the tested parent’s DNA from the child’s and predicting the untested parent’s DNA. I’m not sure if it exists or if it’s even possible. 23andMe does show which ethnicity you got from each parent after phasing, but you cannot just multiply that by two to get the parent’s estimate.

When you have distance between parental ancestries (let's say Irish and Romanian, or German and Hungarian), you can make a somewhat reliable theoretical result for an untested parent using GED components. The further the distance between the parents, the better. However, when they (the parents) are from the same ethnicity, this method does not work well.

For example, I use a theoretical kit to represent my father (he was never tested), his kit was developed assuming that I plot exactly between my parents. The problem for an individual like you, who's parents are the same ethnicity, is that your family will tend to plot right around each other in an unpredictable way. The further the parents plot from each other, the more reliable the mid point method of creating an untested parent's kit becomes.

[MCMXCV]

European 100%

Eastern European 72.0%
Slovenia Likely Match
1. Lendava
Hungary Possible Match
1. Budapest

Northwestern European 11.7%
French & German 11.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.1%

Southern European 7.8%
Greek & Balkan 6.2%
Croatia Possible Match
Broadly Southern European 1.6%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.2%

Broadly European 8.3%

[MCMXCV]

Don’t mind the above (re)post. I want to have it linked in my signature, but couldn’t edit the old one. I guess I’ll drop my Eurogenes K36 map here so this thread isn’t bumped for absolutely nothing.

https://uc3b14911afaed4a96e42a78b014.previews.dropboxuserc ontent.com/p/thumb/ABgCu6cQAQ-ngbVKTdQs7l7S6CVwcpg89sGji-_kU2yhIBgMYyVEwvAZmD_NMaQN1ozcbLkJBd4JE9Fkw-Bg5H2AbQydSU9uYrNhvcqc_M2HyVP95PhZv7SYlgSPQ9tUZbwV 73KWOmgCVkazfsS60HvB3pWK4N6-WTqDjlUKELq9LuIcpzJj-eMnL5UsKKOelTXhn7o5D0DgwGSbEeHOsMuh8k6klhedz8_3RSw PDWEO951m8OYI5cDm0uKJ8tKESLM6H_mcXPWEn_cwfA95TMLcz _gRb_n5q-OlbV2J2Yk02QiHgVxii02blzto7uU74NKFlvlVUcMYXX5iZg9N PLMOYH_wOJ1INEYc_AtZXfPCoBnYZjtZha9HkTjq--Mlwo7QiOztmVOKEOBC3NbGP81RX-VZ0QUWG-e1nR1HrOrz2w/p.png

[Leto]

A Slovene I've recently found. Probably already known to some of you

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 31.64
2 Baltic 30.64
3 West_Med 15.22
4 East_Med 9.86
5 West_Asian 8.33
6 South_Asian 1.32
7 Red_Sea 1.07
8 Oceanian 1.04
9 East_Asian 0.87

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.41
2 Austrian 5.43
3 Croatian 6.42
4 East_German 6.43
5 Moldavian 7.14
6 Serbian 7.31
7 South_Polish 11.45
8 Romanian 11.48
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.88
10 West_German 12.53
11 Ukrainian 13.1
12 South_Dutch 13.91
13 Bulgarian 14.24
14 Polish 15.15
15 North_German 15.34
16 French 15.94
17 North_Swedish 16.88
18 Southwest_Russian 17.26
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.44
20 Swedish 17.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.7% Moldavian + 27.3% Southeast_English @ 1.74
2 57.4% Austrian + 42.6% Moldavian @ 1.77
3 64.3% Moldavian + 35.7% West_German @ 1.91
4 74.7% Moldavian + 25.3% Southwest_English @ 1.92
5 66.7% Moldavian + 33.3% South_Dutch @ 1.95
6 72.2% Croatian + 27.8% French @ 2.05
7 53.5% East_German + 46.5% Serbian @ 2.05
8 69.8% East_German + 30.2% Bulgarian @ 2.06
9 67.1% Croatian + 32.9% West_German @ 2.1
10 65.1% East_German + 34.9% Romanian @ 2.27
11 75.8% Moldavian + 24.2% West_Scottish @ 2.34
12 74.1% Moldavian + 25.9% Orcadian @ 2.35
13 69.7% Croatian + 30.3% South_Dutch @ 2.4
14 75.1% Moldavian + 24.9% Irish @ 2.42
15 73% Moldavian + 27% North_Dutch @ 2.47
16 72.7% Moldavian + 27.3% Danish @ 2.51
17 65.1% South_Polish + 34.9% North_Italian @ 2.55
18 95.2% Hungarian + 4.8% Sardinian @ 2.57
19 59.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.64
20 69.5% Moldavian + 30.5% North_German @ 2.65