Poles and their Gothic descent

[Peterski]

Here is a rather interesting article:

113166

https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=3174&context=ocj

It seems to be quite correct indeed:

Target: Peterski_scaled
Distance: 2.2596% / 0.02259609
33.2 POL_Cedynia_VK212
26.4 Kowalewko_Goths
21.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz
14.8 Swiss_German
4.2 VK139_Denmark_Funen
0.0 Danish
0.0 DEU_MA_Alemannic
0.0 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
0.0 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
0.0 Dutch
0.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
0.0 Pohansko_Slavs
0.0 SWE_IA
0.0 VK494_Sandomierz


^^^ The Global25 model I used:


SOURCE (scaled coordinates):



Swiss_German,0.127624,0.1407779,0.0460088,0.022731 1,0.0406229,0.0073906,0.0027906,0.0051344,0.008640 9,0.0121641,-0.0015224,0.005264,-0.0149402,-0.008808,0.0083638,-0.0011269,-0.0025912,0.0012192,0.0053735,-0.0009222,0.0019341,0.0035086,-0.0025574,0.006974,-0.0025596
Dutch,0.1274407,0.1341783,0.0602712,0.0440759,0.04 08435,0.0163974,0.0054023,0.0072633,0.0042087,0.00 19245,-0.0056347,0.0044274,-0.0098456,-0.0086761,0.01783,0.0056231,-0.0065161,0.0017477,0.0039087,0.0028161,0.00448,0. 0033848,-5.1e-06,0.0138921,-0.0006557
DEU_MA_Alemannic,0.1301377,0.130326,0.0642363,0.05 31873,0.0370327,0.0162687,0.0073633,0.0052307,-0.001227,0.0023087,-0.0040053,0.0096913,-0.017344,-0.009725,0.0237963,0.0143197,0.0031727,0.0040117,0 .003855,0.004919,0.0058647,0.004493,-0.002999,0.014058,-0.0012773
DEU_MA_Baiuvaric,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.04 8773,0.039792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.00132 95,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019, 0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg,0.1292408,0.1278645,0.0744299 ,0.0667435,0.0442321,0.0231226,0.0087166,0.012545,-0.0003718,-0.0232598,-0.00248,-0.0092645,0.0149742,0.0188792,-0.0083037,0.0013741,0.0066141,-0.0015894,0.0034395,0.003297,-0.0047075,-0.0031365,0.0046274,-0.0053785,0.0002395
Sorb_Niederlausitz,0.130897,0.137096,0.068636,0.05 6848,0.050779,0.021196,0.011281,0.011076,-0.003477,-0.017312,-0.002111,-0.006744,0.013082,0.017891,-0.008415,0.001061,0.008475,-0.006208,0.007039,-0.004127,-0.003369,-0.007543,0.008011,-0.004458,0.001197
POL_Cedynia_VK212,0.124067,0.135065,0.075424,0.072 029,0.038469,0.027052,0.011986,0.020538,0.00634,-0.027153,-0.006171,-0.01169,0.022002,0.031516,-0.016694,-0.01127,0.002347,0.003041,0.005028,-0.001501,-0.010606,0.004946,0.007518,-0.005422,0.00479
Danish,0.1312479,0.1350654,0.0663779,0.0524377,0.0 413029,0.0194569,0.0051584,0.0074014,0.0034365,-0.002558,-0.0053588,0.0034802,-0.0085067,-0.0070935,0.0186691,0.0061171,-0.0065193,0.0020474,0.0032402,0.0043462,0.0056397, 0.0024349,0.0006923,0.013774,0.0002011
VK494_Sandomierz,0.126344,0.125926,0.085606,0.0662 15,0.051702,0.034861,0.017626,0.014307,0.003886,-0.017312,-0.006496,3e-04,0.016353,0.029314,-0.011672,-0.005171,-0.014081,0.004181,0.013073,0.002126,0.009483,0.005 812,0.005669,-0.004699,0.001078
Pohansko_Slavs:POH41,0.129758,0.128972,0.074293,0. 062016,0.033852,0.01757,0.014101,0.013153,0.000205 ,-0.01877,-0.00682,0.005545,0.013528,0.026286,-0.011129,0.012596,0.00013,-0.001014,0.004274,0.005503,0.001747,-0.001731,0.00912,-0.005543,0.014609
Pohansko_Slavs:POH44,0.138864,0.13405,0.078064,0.0 75259,0.053241,0.022869,0.022091,-0.000462,-0.005113,-0.017495,-0.010068,-0.003147,0.011744,0.016928,0,0.007027,0.011604,-0.008995,0.005279,0.005378,-0.007986,-0.007543,0.011832,-0.008555,0.007784
VK139_Denmark_Funen,0.1161,0.131003,0.076178,0.073 967,0.047393,0.02761,-0.0047,0.011307,0.010635,-0.020957,0.003573,-0.007793,0.018137,0.026148,-0.008822,-0.00305,-0.001043,0.001014,0.003897,0.002376,-0.003119,-0.007419,0.00912,-0.003494,-0.003233
Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7,0.127482,0.125926,0.078441, 0.053 295,0. 049548,0.023706,0.013631,0.006461,0.01084,-0.00893,-0.007145,0.004796,-0.011001,0.006606,0.03203,0.001326,-0.001304,0.014949,0.014204,0.008629,0.021462,-0.018301,0.000493,0.000241,-0.002275
Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8,0.144555,0.137096,0.06939,0 .0545 87,0.0 18157,0.023985,0.011751,0.004154,0.002045,-0.008383,-0.014615,-0.013038,0.003419,-0.007156,0.024022,0.005569,-0.008605,-0.005954,-0.002011,0.012006,0.011854,-0.008779,-0.003944,0.024943,0.003592
Kowalewko_Goths:Male_9,0.140002,0.120848,0.071653, 0.067 83,0.0 48624,0.023148,-0.000235,0.001846,0.015544,-0.02442,-0.003897,0.01109,0.005054,-0.007569,0.035966,0.022275,0.003651,-0.010769,-0.000377,0.016383,0.007986,-0.001978,-0.004807,0.016749,-0.007784
Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12,0.111547,0.12491,0.070522, 0.062 016,0. 042469,0.013108,0.007755,0.019384,-0.008795,-0.000364,0.007795,0.012289,-0.01115,-0.001927,0.010722,0.001193,-0.011083,0.013809,0.019357,-0.002751,0.013351,0.008903,-0.00456,0.008555,-0.022393
SWE_IA:RISE174,0.122929,0.123895,0.067127,0.058463 ,0.041238,0.02008,0.005875,0.007615,0.002863,-0.009659,0.003735,0.001948,-0.006987,0.003853,0.020358,-0.006762,-0.015385,0.006461,0.009427,0.00025,0.00025,0.00284 4,0.002465,0.011447,0.000359
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065,0.135449,0.121864,0.083 344,0.072352,0.047393,0.019522,-0.0094,0.005077,0.011453,0.001276,0.001137,0.00254 8,-0.011001,-0.013625,0.034609,0.0118,-0.004563,0.001647,0.012067,0.019384,0.000374,-0.001237,-0.004683,-0.002048,0.005389


TARGET (my coordinates):



Peterski_scaled,0.135449,0.142174,0.065619,0.05684 8,0.036007,0.021475,0.004935,0.006,0.005522,-0.01877,-0.004709,-0.005245,0.011744,0.011698,-0.005157,0.00053,0.002868,0.000887,-0.003897,-0.003252,-0.009358,-0.001978,0.007025,0.015785,-0.002634


EDIT:


Added also coords for my cousin (Grzegorz) and my grandma (Seweryna):



Grzegorz_scaled,0.136588,0.137096,0.073916,0.06266 2,0.032621,0.024542,0.006345,0.002538,-0.004704,-0.020775,0.001299,-0.005545,0.009217,0.010597,-0.002443,-0.003182,0.002608,-0.00152,0.000377,0.009379,-0.007612,0.000866,0.008134,0.008073,0.000359
Seweryna_scaled,0.135449,0.141159,0.067505,0.06040 1,0.03139,0.026216,0.0094,0.005077,-0.002454,-0.015308,-0.009581,-0.008692,0.014866,0.017753,-0.00475,-0.000796,0.005085,-0.000127,-0.000503,0.003252,-0.006863,-0.00507,0.010106,0.004579,-0.001916

[Peterski]

^^^
Kowalewko (where these Gothic samples are from) is located in my region of Poland (Wielkopolskie Voivodeship):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowalewko,_Oborniki_County

[mariusz99]

Target: MariuszKorycinski_scaled
Distance: 1.7600% / 0.01759980 | ADC: 0.25x RC
78.8 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
12.8 DEU_MA_Alemannic
4.8 Kowalewko_Goths
3.6 Pohansko_Slavs

[Peterski]

My grandma Seweryna:

Target: Seweryna_scaled
Distance: 1.7863% / 0.01786340
32.4 POL_Cedynia_VK212
32.2 Sorb_Niederlausitz
27.6 Kowalewko_Goths
6.2 Pohansko_Slavs
1.6 Swiss_German

My cousin Grzegorz:

Target: Grzegorz_scaled
Distance: 2.0774% / 0.02077356
38.6 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
25.8 Kowalewko_Goths
16.4 POL_Cedynia_VK212
9.8 Pohansko_Slavs
4.8 SWE_IA
3.6 Swiss_German
0.6 VK139_Denmark_Funen
0.4 DEU_MA_Alemannic

[noricum]

Pan Noricum:

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 1.9987% / 0.01998691
56.8 Swiss_German
43.2 POL_Cedynia_VK212

..just for comparison sake.

[Russki]

I don't think it's a Gothic calculator

Your neighboring Lithuanians consistently get 0.0%, whereas Russians get up to 18% (+ Swedish Iron Age)

https://sun9-20.userapi.com/impf/DjDIw5wg3zDVbKPJJTA-SY0z-L_hRoVptj-t_Q/CpC9bqNhjmA.jpg?size=916x890&quality=95&sign=edf657ca606a8b5cefd0fd43b32b8a65&type=album

[oszkar07]

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 0.0220% / 0.02203175
52.2 Swiss_German
19.1 VK494_Sandomierz
10.9 Kowalewko_Goths
9.2 POL_Cedynia_VK212
8.6 SWE_IA

[Token]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89dGC8de0CA

[Roy]

My grandma Seweryna:

Target: Seweryna_scaled
Distance: 1.7863% / 0.01786340
32.4 POL_Cedynia_VK212
32.2 Sorb_Niederlausitz
27.6 Kowalewko_Goths
6.2 Pohansko_Slavs
1.6 Swiss_German

My cousin Grzegorz:

Target: Grzegorz_scaled
Distance: 2.0774% / 0.02077356
38.6 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
25.8 Kowalewko_Goths
16.4 POL_Cedynia_VK212
9.8 Pohansko_Slavs
4.8 SWE_IA
3.6 Swiss_German
0.6 VK139_Denmark_Funen
0.4 DEU_MA_Alemannic

Wow, the fit is pretty good here. It looks pretty much certain to me that Goths from Scandinavia left a significant input genetically into future Polish people, or at least to a significant chunk of our population, especially in the west. So they have not all disappeared, died out etc. without mixing in.


Also I have to say that your grandma has a unique and likable name. I've never met any Seweryna.

[Russki]

Wow, the fit is pretty good here. It looks pretty much certain to me that Goths from Scandinavia left a significant input genetically into future Polish people, or at least to a significant chunk of our population, especially in the west. So they have not all disappeared, died out etc. without mixing in.


Also I have to say that your grandma has a unique and likable name. I've never met any Seweryna.



Polish average on G25 is modeled as 4.5% Gothic.

https://sun9-34.userapi.com/impf/HL08YQIrFmYRxIFvx9niUeyJp1704zCwbAbMtA/p7l0UV1x11I.jpg?size=990x352&quality=95&sign=624e401d94066f215a5837b378cc8e87&type=album




mariusz99 gets 4.8% Gothic.

https://sun9-43.userapi.com/impf/f6_UOf9L9x0xmyg6Dscbz1NiZhSR_0NVACfWcg/raiVn9ayL3g.jpg?size=733x316&quality=95&sign=e44275f38578b1e0bd9a67b5bff16727&type=album




Everything posted by Peterski comes out as weird outliers.

Whereas what posted mariusz99 comes out as typical.

[Gallop]

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 0.0499% / 0.04986042
100.0 Swiss_German


Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 0.0537% / 0.05370875
100.0 Swiss_German


Distance to: Father_scaled
0.05370875 Swiss_German
0.07683973 Dutch
0.08357751 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
0.08685954 Danish
0.08746895 DEU_MA_Alemannic
0.09788180 SWE_IA:RISE174
0.10057109 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.10097211 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.10279822 Peterski_scaled
0.10569454 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.10887811 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8
0.11145189 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065
0.11334740 Pohansko_Slavs:POH41
0.11524366 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
0.11899919 VK139_Denmark_Funen
0.12001391 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_9
0.12362983 Pohansko_Slavs:POH44
0.12514715 VK494_Sandomierz
0.12846799 POL_Cedynia_VK212


Distance to: Gallop_scaled
0.04986042 Swiss_German
0.07491088 Dutch
0.08151249 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
0.08546099 Danish
0.08617162 DEU_MA_Alemannic
0.09586523 SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09964859 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.10000562 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.10677447 Peterski_scaled
0.10809593 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8
0.10824865 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065
0.10963740 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.11768121 Pohansko_Slavs:POH41
0.11820413 Kowalewko_Goths:Male_9
0.11879916 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
0.12301392 VK139_Denmark_Funen
0.12653293 Pohansko_Slavs:POH44
0.12751578 VK494_Sandomierz
0.13207031 POL_Cedynia_VK212



Distance to: Father_scaled
0.08348217 13.20% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 86.80% DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
0.08648089 38.20% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 61.80% Danish
0.08695861 86.40% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 13.60% Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.08718605 88.60% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 11.40% Peterski_scaled
0.08744322 97.40% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 2.60% VK139_Denmark_Funen
0.08746587 98.60% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 1.40% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.08746886 99.80% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 0.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.09489849 54.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12 + 45.80% Peterski_scaled
0.09537639 53.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 46.40% Peterski_scaled
0.09622494 48.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 51.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09630370 40.00% Sorb_Niederlausitz + 60.00% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09632975 36.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8 + 63.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09648779 35.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 64.40% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09662090 69.20% SWE_IA:RISE174 + 30.80% Peterski_scaled
0.09666255 35.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12 + 64.40% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09680968 25.40% Sorb_Niederlausitz + 74.60% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09732799 39.40% Sorb_Niederlausitz + 60.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.09754648 14.40% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8 + 85.60% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09781410 6.00% Pohansko_Slavs:POH41 + 94.00% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09846471 26.80% Pohansko_Slavs:POH41 + 73.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09906708 74.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12 + 25.40% FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065
0.09908962 35.00% FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065 + 65.00% Peterski_scaled
0.09922299 70.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 29.40% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8
0.09953394 19.80% DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg + 80.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09955510 23.80% Pohansko_Slavs:POH41 + 76.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7


Distance to: Gallop_scaled
0.08148621 6.80% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 93.20% DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
0.08511061 36.40% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 63.60% Danish
0.08615471 97.60% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 2.40% Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.08617001 99.00% DEU_MA_Alemannic + 1.00% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.09466753 32.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 67.40% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09508713 28.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12 + 71.80% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09523585 51.00% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 49.00% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09563184 36.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8 + 63.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09566854 10.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8 + 89.20% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09579751 93.00% SWE_IA:RISE174 + 7.00% Peterski_scaled
0.09579960 6.20% Sorb_Niederlausitz + 93.80% SWE_IA:RISE174
0.09584119 96.00% SWE_IA:RISE174 + 4.00% FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065
0.09634058 64.40% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 35.60% Peterski_scaled
0.09634820 63.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12 + 36.80% Peterski_scaled
0.09747588 30.80% Sorb_Niederlausitz + 69.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09763537 68.40% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12 + 31.60% FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065
0.09787861 27.40% Sorb_Niederlausitz + 72.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.09801697 71.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 28.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_8
0.09910064 17.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_9 + 82.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09913042 17.20% Pohansko_Slavs:POH41 + 82.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_12
0.09914324 81.20% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7 + 18.80% FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o:JK2065
0.09933163 11.20% Pohansko_Slavs:POH41 + 88.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.09956476 6.00% DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg + 94.00% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.09963388 2.40% VK139_Denmark_Funen + 97.60% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7
0.09964291 1.20% POL_Cedynia_VK212 + 98.80% Kowalewko_Goths:Male_7

[cakmir7y]

Not so much Goths but that Swiss-German guy, is that rather germanic or celtic reference?

Target: cakmir7y_scaled
Distance: 0.0197% / 0.01966821 | ADC: 0.25x RC
41.0 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
29.7 Swiss_German
10.3 Sorb_Niederlausitz
6.9 Kowalewko_Goths
6.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
5.5 Pohansko_Slavs

[cakmir7y]

double

[Gallop]

Target: Swiss_German
Distance: 0.0334% / 0.03342066
47.5 TUR_Barcin_N
41.3 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.2 WHG


Parece afrancesado

[Rumata]

Jesteś na usługach Kacapów, czyli drugiej najgorszej (zaraz po Szwabach) gangreny jaka może być - i Polakiem się nigdy nie powinieneś nazywać.

Calling Germans "a gangreny" - self hate Gothic way? :rolleyes:

[Russki]

Calling Germans "a gangreny" - self hate Gothic way? :rolleyes:


Germans are not descended from Goths.

Saxons in the North, saxonized Celts the more South you go.

[vbnetkhio]

Polish average on G25 is modeled as 4.5% Gothic.

https://sun9-34.userapi.com/impf/HL08YQIrFmYRxIFvx9niUeyJp1704zCwbAbMtA/p7l0UV1x11I.jpg?size=990x352&quality=95&sign=624e401d94066f215a5837b378cc8e87&type=album




mariusz99 gets 4.8% Gothic.

https://sun9-43.userapi.com/impf/f6_UOf9L9x0xmyg6Dscbz1NiZhSR_0NVACfWcg/raiVn9ayL3g.jpg?size=733x316&quality=95&sign=e44275f38578b1e0bd9a67b5bff16727&type=album




Everything posted by Peterski comes out as weird outliers.

Whereas what posted mariusz99 comes out as typical.

The Poles in G25 are atypical, most of them are probably from Ukraine or Southeast Poland.
Peterski and his family are typical for most of Poland, you can check the k13 updated averages.


I don't think it's a Gothic calculator

Your neighboring Lithuanians consistently get 0.0%, whereas Russians get up to 18% (+ Swedish Iron Age)

https://sun9-20.userapi.com/impf/DjDIw5wg3zDVbKPJJTA-SY0z-L_hRoVptj-t_Q/CpC9bqNhjmA.jpg?size=916x890&quality=95&sign=edf657ca606a8b5cefd0fd43b32b8a65&type=album

it makes sense, Russia had historic Scandianvian settlement, and Lithuania didn't, afaik.

[MercifulServant]

cringe thread

[Rumata]

Germans are not descended from Goths.

Saxons in the North, saxonized Celts the more South you go.

Still they were a bunch related to that "gangreny".

[Russki]

The Poles in G25 are atypical, most of them are probably from Ukraine or Southeast Poland.

Probably? That's just your guesses, and both of them are wrong.

Polish coordinates on G25 are a lot more Northern-shifted than Lviv Ukrainians, so no, they are not from Ukraine or Southeast Poland.

mariusz99 (Polish user above) is a typical Pole.

He scores about the same 4% Gothic as Polish average on G25, so practically nothing.


it makes sense, Russia had historic Scandianvian settlement, and Lithuania didn't, afaik.

Sounds plausible.

Lithuania and Latvia end up as "black holes" when it comes to Germanic DNA.

[vbnetkhio]

Probably? That's just your guesses, and both of them are wrong.

Polish coordinates on G25 are a lot more Northern-shifted than Lviv Ukrainians, so no, they are not from Ukraine or Southeast Poland.

mariusz99 (Polish user above) is a typical Pole.

He scores about the same 4% Gothic as Polish average on G25, so practically nothing.



Sounds plausible.

Lithuania and Latvia end up as "black holes" when it comes to Germanic DNA.

Poles in g25 are between modern north Ukrainians and modern Scandinavians:

https://i.imgur.com/FbMU295.png

in reality, only Lesser Poland is like that:
https://i.imgur.com/LMwTDnu.png

typical Poles should be in that area I circled on the first map.

[Russki]

typical Poles should be in that area I circled on the first map.


Typical Poles are exactly where "Polish" is on your PCA.

Had they been from Ukraine or Southeast Poland, they'd clustered with Ukrainian_Lviv.

You can mail Davidski if you think he is using Southeast Poles to represent Polish average.

[Zohor]

Along with almost 15% Swiss you get modeled as almost half-Germanic, isn't it too high?

Also how a few samples would mean there is some Gothic descent in Poles? Goths were a tribe long gone, Germans and Swedes raiding the Polish land had much more impact on Polish genetics than some Goths and such elements could be misinterpreted by them.
Article also doesn't seem to be convincing enough as well

In short, interesting thesis, no real proof



And @Rumata, I'd never think you will go that low to quote someone from on thread to the other totally non-related one, what a regress of you

[vbnetkhio]

Typical Poles are exactly where "Polish" is on your PCA.

Had they been from Ukraine or Southeast Poland, they'd clustered with Ukrainian_Lviv.

You can mail Davidski if you think he is using Southeast Poles to represent Polish average.

you are right, they don't look like Lviv, more like a combination of Volhynia Poles (they have almost complete overlap with northern Ukrainians) + somewhere like Lesser Poland

https://i.imgur.com/EAbOMLf.png

[Peterski]

Everything posted by Peterski comes out as weird outliers.

Whereas what posted mariusz99 comes out as typical.

Mariusz99 comes from Northeastern part of Poland (Mazovia) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazovia (= Mazowsze in Polish)

Kowalewko_Goths are from Kowalewko, Oborniki County - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowalewko,_Oborniki_County

I am from Greater Poland, the same region as Kowalewko - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Poland (= Wielkopolska in Polish)

Doesn't it make sense that my family have ancestry from ancient people who once lived in my region?

While Mariusz doesn't have ancestry from ancient people who lived in not his, but different region?

=====
=====

Scaled G25 coordinates for my cousin, my maternal grandmother, and me - you can play with them:


Grzegorz_scaled,0.136588,0.137096,0.073916,0.06266 2,0.032621,0.024542,0.006345,0.002538,-0.004704,-0.020775,0.001299,-0.005545,0.009217,0.010597,-0.002443,-0.003182,0.002608,-0.00152,0.000377,0.009379,-0.007612,0.000866,0.008134,0.008073,0.000359
Seweryna_scaled,0.135449,0.141159,0.067505,0.06040 1,0.03139,0.026216,0.0094,0.005077,-0.002454,-0.015308,-0.009581,-0.008692,0.014866,0.017753,-0.00475,-0.000796,0.005085,-0.000127,-0.000503,0.003252,-0.006863,-0.00507,0.010106,0.004579,-0.001916
Peterski_scaled,0.135449,0.142174,0.065619,0.05684 8,0.036007,0.021475,0.004935,0.006,0.005522,-0.01877,-0.004709,-0.005245,0.011744,0.011698,-0.005157,0.00053,0.002868,0.000887,-0.003897,-0.003252,-0.009358,-0.001978,0.007025,0.015785,-0.002634

Grandma & cousin are from North Wielkopolska, I can be labelled as Central Wielkopolska (but actually a mix of North from mom's side + South from dad's side).

[Peterski]

https://i.imgur.com/EAbOMLf.png

^^^ Can you add G25 coords of my grandma, cousin, and me to this PCA with green Polish vs. red Ukrainian_North areas.

BTW - one Ukrainian_North sample is shifted very much to the left (west) and north, how about removing it as an outlier?

[vbnetkhio]

^^^ Can you add G25 coords of my grandma, cousin, and me to this PCA with green Polish vs. red Ukrainian_North areas.

BTW - one Ukrainian_North sample is shifted very much to the left (west) and north, how about removing it as an outlier?

https://i.imgur.com/k8p9lVE.png

here, i'm not sure which sample do you mean, the one left of the "Polish" tag or right? both are around equally away from the nearest Ukrainian sample.

[Peterski]

Along with almost 15% Swiss you get modeled as almost half-Germanic, isn't it too high?

Swiss German is rather Celto-Germanic, very southern-shifted.

But I get similar proportions also on other tests, for example:

DNA Tribes:

https://i.imgur.com/RbNXQj9.png

DNA Land:

https://i.imgur.com/vbmbKgw.png

GenePlaza:

https://i.imgur.com/MrpYIMP.png

Gencove:

https://i.imgur.com/Mc8S0T3.png

Etc., etc.

[Abriekman]

Typical Poles are exactly where "Polish" is on your PCA.

Had they been from Ukraine or Southeast Poland, they'd clustered with Ukrainian_Lviv.

You can mail Davidski if you think he is using Southeast Poles to represent Polish average.

Polish from Ukraine, Podolie ( my dad )

Target: Abriekman_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.9863% / 0.02986293
66.2 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
18.8 Swiss_German
13.8 Sorb_Niederlausitz
1.0 Pohansko_Slavs
0.2 Kowalewko_Goths

[vbnetkhio]

Typical Poles are exactly where "Polish" is on your PCA.

Had they been from Ukraine or Southeast Poland, they'd clustered with Ukrainian_Lviv.

You can mail Davidski if you think he is using Southeast Poles to represent Polish average.
Why are you so sure about that?

The Polish samples in G25 come from Poles who sent their raw data to Davidski. The condition was probably something like 4 Polish grandparents (from any region) and no exotic ancestry, maybe Peterski knows the exact details. Their purpose isn't to be super representative of the Polish average.

The K13 averages are made from results with confirmed genealogies from their respective region, why do you ignore them?

[Roy]

Mariusz99 comes from Northeastern part of Poland (Mazovia) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazovia (= Mazowsze in Polish)

Kowalewko_Goths are from Kowalewko, Oborniki County - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowalewko,_Oborniki_County

I am from Greater Poland, the same region as Kowalewko - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Poland (= Wielkopolska in Polish)

Doesn't it make sense that my family have ancestry from ancient people who once lived in my region?

While Mariusz doesn't have ancestry from ancient people who lived in not his, but different region?

=====
=====

Scaled G25 coordinates for my cousin, my maternal grandmother, and me - you can play with them:


Grzegorz_scaled,0.136588,0.137096,0.073916,0.06266 2,0.032621,0.024542,0.006345,0.002538,-0.004704,-0.020775,0.001299,-0.005545,0.009217,0.010597,-0.002443,-0.003182,0.002608,-0.00152,0.000377,0.009379,-0.007612,0.000866,0.008134,0.008073,0.000359
Seweryna_scaled,0.135449,0.141159,0.067505,0.06040 1,0.03139,0.026216,0.0094,0.005077,-0.002454,-0.015308,-0.009581,-0.008692,0.014866,0.017753,-0.00475,-0.000796,0.005085,-0.000127,-0.000503,0.003252,-0.006863,-0.00507,0.010106,0.004579,-0.001916
Peterski_scaled,0.135449,0.142174,0.065619,0.05684 8,0.036007,0.021475,0.004935,0.006,0.005522,-0.01877,-0.004709,-0.005245,0.011744,0.011698,-0.005157,0.00053,0.002868,0.000887,-0.003897,-0.003252,-0.009358,-0.001978,0.007025,0.015785,-0.002634

Grandma & cousin are from North Wielkopolska, I can be labelled as Central Wielkopolska (but actually a mix of North from mom's side + South from dad's side).


How many Kowalewsko Goths were used for their average?

[Peterski]

How many Kowalewsko Goths were used for their average?

Four. Only four are available so far. There will be much more within several months probably.

[Polak]

Target: Polak_scaled
Distance: 2.9399% / 0.02939854
43.8 VK494_Sandomierz
25.4 DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg
20.8 Sorb_Niederlausitz
5.6 Pohansko_Slavs
4.4 POL_Cedynia_VK212

Don't know what any of these are