Who are Montenegrins

[Onychodus]

are they Serbs or it is a distinct ethnical group?

[Ushtari]

Slavicized Albanians

[Panopticon]

Slavicized Albanians.

[Onychodus]

Slavicized Albanians

so are they Ubermensch for you?

[Mordid]

Untermenschised Ubermensch.

[Absinthe]

Mountain Negroes :p

[Ushtari]

so are they Ubermensch for you?
Yes

[Panopticon]

Crna Gora je Albanija

[Saruman]

LOL as if Albanians can claim right to everything Illyrian. To suggest plenty of ppl in MNE called themselves "Albanians" 600 years ago is nothing other than ludicrous. Not only that but they aren't physically quite the same either. And term Montenegrin is abit confusing as it includes actually peoples who were historically not "Montenegrin" until they got incorporated into their state. Such as people from "Brda(highlands)" and "Old Herzegovina" (Northwestern Montenegro), the latter are Herzegovinians actually.

[Caeruleus]

Slavicized Albanians

according to you every single nation in Europe is albanian (romanians are long lost albanians, montenegrins are slavicized albanians) ... is there an end to this pan-albanism of yours ? :)

are there any montenegrins in this forum ? I would really like to know what they think

[Absinthe]

according to you every single nation in Europe is albanian (romanians are long lost albanians, montenegrins are slavicized albanians) ... is there an end to this pan-albanism of yours ? :)
Greeks are Albanians too, as it appears from the classification threads :nicetongue

[Onychodus]

they call themselves Montenegrins or Chernogorians?

[Ushtari]

LOL as if Albanians can claim right to everything Illyrian. To suggest plenty of ppl in MNE called themselves "Albanians" 600 years ago is nothing other than ludicrous. Not only that but they aren't physically quite the same either. And term Montenegrin is abit confusing as it includes actually peoples who were historically not "Montenegrin" until they got incorporated into their state. Such as people from "Brda(highlands)" and "Old Herzegovina" (Northwestern Montenegro), the latter are Herzegovinians actually.
I know plenty of Montenegrins here in Schweden and all of them look typical Albanian.

Coon actually studied them and came to the conclusion that they are to a large part slavicied Albanians.


"The Montenegrins, who are the tallest people in Europe, live on a barren limestone mountain upland, where they, for centuries, succeeded in maintainingnheir Christianity and their freedom while surrounded by the Turks. They, like the northern Albanians, preserve their old exogamous clan organization, and their clan loyalties and feuds. They are linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the cultural continuity between the two peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion."
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII10.htm

They even admitted themselves they descend from Albanian families:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3537/montenegrin.jpg


And it is commonly known that Albanian tribes in Montenegro got assimilated(text by Miranda Vickers)


In Kosovo, especially in its eastern part, most Albanians were gradually assimilated into the Eastern Orthodox faith by numerous methods, including the baptism of infants with Serbian names and the conducting of all religious ceremonies such as marriages in the Serbian language. In Montenegro entire tribes such as the Kuc, Bjellopavliq, Palabardha, Piprraj and Vasovic were assimilated; those who resisted assimilation retreated into the hills of what is now northern Albania.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/v/vickers-serb.html

[Panopticon]

LOL as if Albanians can claim right to everything Illyrian. To suggest plenty of ppl in MNE called themselves "Albanians" 600 years ago is nothing other than ludicrous. Not only that but they aren't physically quite the same either. And term Montenegrin is abit confusing as it includes actually peoples who were historically not "Montenegrin" until they got incorporated into their state. Such as people from "Brda(highlands)" and "Old Herzegovina" (Northwestern Montenegro), the latter are Herzegovinians actually.

Travellers who visited Montenegro usually commented on the cultural and physical similarities between Albanians and Montenegrins. They often went as far as saying that they are basically the same people, so it's not something only we Albanians think and claim.

Albanian presence went as far as Dalmatia and Herzegovina 600 years ago just to make that clear. The The borders we see today haven't been there forever.

[Prengs]

are they Serbs or it is a distinct ethnical group?

They are distinct. Otherwise would not exists "Montegrins miniority" in Serbia or Serbian miniority (Although there are more in number) in Montenegro.

[safinator]

Negroes that migrated to mountains.

[Dacul]

Montenegrins are from dacian tribes mixed with slavs speaking south slavic.
According to some romanian scientists,dacians were living were Romania is mainly (including Bessarabia and Bukovina) and at north,their neighbours were slavs/sclaveni and north neighbours of slavs / sclaveni were balto-slavs.
All were speaking satem indo-european languages.
And Danube was said to divide from north thracians to south thracians,so I think sclaveni together with dacians and balto-slavs and populations of south of Danube were considered thracians.
Sure albanians came now with the ideea that slavs are not from thracians and they migrated here from outside Europe,but that is not true.

[Rereg]

They are isolated Serbs. :D

[rashka]

Montenegrins are Serbs and are known to be a very beautiful people.


Quote about Montenegrins from 1896 London book The Leisure Hour:

On market days the road swarms with Montenegrins, with their mules, asses, or small ponies, carrying produce to the coast, or returning with purchases. Burdens are borne along the difficult road not only by the animlas, but by men and women. Of these burdens the women seemingly take an undue share. The traveller is struck with the lofty stature of the men, and is favourably impressed with their manly bearing, square brows, and intelligent countenances; their hair is generally brown, and their large eyes blue, or perhaps oftener dark grey. The women he finds of middle stature, thick set, and with weather-beaten complexions. Their expression is generally pleasing, being intelligent, as well as cheerful. But whatever good looks they may have in youth, it is evident they too soon lose by exposure and hard toil.

[B01AB20]

the name 'montenegro' seems spanish (literally black mount), but it must be of italian or latin origin I guess, of course I don't think 'montenegro' sounds like anything slavic... or albanian.

where comes this name from?

[dralos]

they are alboz thread closed

[Boiorix]

they are alboz thread closed

Yea' and Russians are albos too :icon_lol:
You guys have some serious brain problems :crazy:

[safinator]

Yea' and Russians are albos too :icon_lol:
You guys have some serious brain problems :crazy:
Zupan :laugh: ?

[alb0zfinest]

Montenegrins are Serbs and are known to be a very beautiful people.


Quote about Montenegrins from 1896 London book The Leisure Hour:

On market days the road swarms with Montenegrins, with their mules, asses, or small ponies, carrying produce to the coast, or returning with purchases. Burdens are borne along the difficult road not only by the animlas, but by men and women. Of these burdens the women seemingly take an undue share. The traveller is struck with the lofty stature of the men, and is favourably impressed with their manly bearing, square brows, and intelligent countenances; their hair is generally brown, and their large eyes blue, or perhaps oftener dark grey. The women he finds of middle stature, thick set, and with weather-beaten complexions. Their expression is generally pleasing, being intelligent, as well as cheerful. But whatever good looks they may have in youth, it is evident they too soon lose by exposure and hard toil.

Thats why they can't be Serbian.

[poiuytrewq0987]

the name 'montenegro' seems spanish (literally black mount), but it must be of italian or latin origin I guess, of course I don't think 'montenegro' sounds like anything slavic... or albanian.

where comes this name from?

Montenegro is English name for Crna Gora which means black mountain. :coffee: and Montenegrins are Serbs, stop stealing history and people.

[Mraz]

Montenegrians are mafia.

[alb0zfinest]

Montenegro is English name for Crna Gora which means black mountain. :coffee: and Montenegrins are Serbs, stop stealing history and people.

:loco:
Its like saying Ulqin belongs to Italy because how its referd to in Italian is Dulcigno. :rolleyes:
We refer to China as Kina does that make it Albanian simply because the way we refer to it is in our language? :rolleyes:

[poiuytrewq0987]

:loco:
Its like saying Ulqin belongs to Italy because how its referd to in Italian is Dulcigno. :rolleyes:
We refer to China as Kina does that make it Albanian simply because the way we refer to it is in our language? :rolleyes:

You guys are Vlachs with stolen identity and history.

[dralos]

vla mes i fol mo kti,se kta krejt jan ardh pi stormfrontit nuk mundesh me fol me kta

[Dilberth]

vla mes i fol mo kti,se kta krejt jan ardh pi stormfrontit nuk mundesh me fol me kta

سورة التوبة سورة التوبة سورة الإسراء

[Boiorix]

Zupan :laugh: ?

WTF ?

[Drawing-slim]

You guys are Vlachs with stolen identity and history.

Its said that the biggest thieves always assume everybody's out to steal..
You being serbian and claiming to be alexander the greats nephew, makes alot of sense:D

[El Gre]

Its said that the biggest thieves always assume everybody's out to steal..
You being serbian and claiming to be alexander the greats nephew, makes alot of sense:D

It is quite comical to watch a bunch of people whos grandads were calling themselves Bulgarians only 90 years ago, telling others what they actually are.
We have coined a new term for these MacedoSlavs ... Kleftokotas = Chicken thieves!!

[iNird]

It is quite comical to watch a bunch of people whos grandads were calling themselves Bulgarians only 90 years ago, telling others what they actually are.
We have coined a new term for these MacedoSlavs ... Kleftokotas = Chicken thieves!!

Is it true Greeks refer to Macedonian slavs as "block heads"?

[El Gre]

Is it true Greeks refer to Macedonian slavs as "block heads"?

I am pretty sure this is a term used by Greek Australians. During the 90's these two groups were going at it pretty bad. Having a soccer league with ethnic clubs doesnt help either.

During the early 1900's the Greeks would call them "HONDROKEFALI" literally means "Fat head" , Hondrokefalo VUlgaros (fat headed/thick headed Bulgarian).

Im not sure if this is because they actually had fat heads or they were stubborn people, a bit of both i guess.
Maybe the term Blockhead came from this.

[Drawing-slim]

I am pretty sure this is a term used by Greek Australians. During the 90's these two groups were going at it pretty bad. Having a soccer league with ethnic clubs doesnt help either.

During the early 1900's the Greeks would call them "HONDROKEFALI" literally means "Fat head" , Hondrokefalo VUlgaros (fat headed/thick headed Bulgarian).

Im not sure if this is because they actually had fat heads or they were stubborn people, a bit of both i guess.
Maybe the term Blockhead came from this.This is funny because in area where i grew up we reffered to serbs as bullar.
Bullar, is a snake in that region that has a thick head and is blind..
I swear i couldnt make this up if i tired, its true.

[Yaroslav]

Montenegrins are Serbs.

[dralos]

Montenegrins are Serbs.
they're slavized alboz

[Dilberth]

Those of you who say they are Albos...I guess you claim Milosevic as Albanian?

[Yaroslav]

they're slavized alboz

More like Slavizied Illyrians, not Albanians.

[dralos]

Those of you who say they are Albos...I guess you claim Milosevic as Albanian?
he grew up in serbia he didnt feel like a montenegrin and one of his parents was from serbia proper

[dralos]

More like Slavizied Illyrians, not Albanians.
albanians are the direct descendants of illyrians

[Yaroslav]

he grew up in serbia he didnt feel like a montenegrin and one of his parents was from serbia proper

What Montenegrins feel like Albanians? Give me examples. There are only 30,000 self declared Albanians in Montenegro.

[Yaroslav]

albanians are the direct descendants of illyrians

No, Romanians are Illyrians not Albanians.

[Rron]

No, Romanians are Illyrians not Albanians.
Lol

[rashka]

albanians are the direct descendants of illyrians

Stop lying. That is only Albanian propaganda so that they can prove that they were in the Balkans before the Serbs but it all sounds so pitiful, including the recent naming of children Ilir, Dardan, etc. LOL. It is not for nothing that there was an Albania in the Caucasus.

[Dilberth]

Modern Albanians have nothing with Illyrians

[dralos]

Stop lying. That is only Albanian propaganda so that they can prove that they were in the Balkans before the Serbs but it all sounds so pitiful, including the recent naming of children Ilir, Dardan, etc. LOL. It is not for nothing that there was an Albania in the Caucasus.
hope you meet a nice albanian guy in sweden and have a nice weekend with him:D

[dralos]

diltard should be ignored bcs he is obiviously in a trolling mood

[Dilberth]

hope you meet a nice albanian guy in sweden and have a nice weekend with him:D

You are not Illyrian

[Rron]

Stop lying. That is only Albanian propaganda so that they can prove that they were in the Balkans before the Serbs but it all sounds so pitiful, including the recent naming of children Ilir, Dardan, etc. LOL. It is not for nothing that there was an Albania in the Caucasus.
What do you have against Henrik Baric for example:



Henrik Baric indicated that the Albanians inhabited Dardania and Peonia before Slavs settled in these areas. In the absence of historical sources to support of a contrary view, the Albanian presence at the end of Antiquity and the beginning of Medieval period is proven not only by individuals bearing Illyrian names appearing in tombstone inscriptions, but also the old toponomy of the area, such as Shkup (Scupi), Nish (Naiscus), Shtip (Astibos), Oher (Lychnid), etc., which are not explained on the basis of Slavic phonological rules, but on the basis of Albanian language.

[alb0zfinest]

Stop lying. That is only Albanian propaganda so that they can prove that they were in the Balkans before the Serbs but it all sounds so pitiful, including the recent naming of children Ilir, Dardan, etc. LOL. It is not for nothing that there was an Albania in the Caucasus.

Those names were used even before amongst Albanians, they were'nt recently introduced.

[dralos]

she is jealous bcs her name is probably svetlana and we gotta admit most svetlanas arent the best girls

[Incel King]

Montenegrins are Serbs.

[safinator]

Those of you who say they are Albos...I guess you claim Milosevic as Albanian?

Why should Miloseshit be Albanian?

[Ali Pasha]

i am from Montenegro and yes we are Albanians. Most are Albanians with Serbian ending names.

[chociprasa]

Serbicized Albanians, more or less.

[Moje ime]

Serbs.

[Moje ime]

Serbicized Albanians, more or less.

Let's say this is true. Why they are Serbicized? Arent Albanians "imposible to change"?

[chociprasa]

Let's say this is true. Why they are Serbicized? Arent Albanians "imposible to change"?

They're obviously Serbs from an anthropological and a cultural perspective, given that they're as Orthodox as regular Serbs, but from a phenotypical point of view, they tend to have more 'indigenous Balkan' types (Norids, Balkan Borrebies etc.) than Serbs, not saying that they don't have any Serbian influences in their genetics (the average Montenegrini's height, for one, is much taller than that of the average Albanian). I also think that their mentality is more similar to Albanians than to Serbs, which is from a genetic perspective rather than a cultural one.

[Ayetooey]

Self identified Montenegrins from Brda are often Albo/Serb hybrids; a lot of clan/tribal mixing happened and this is undeniable. Serbs from Montenegro are Serbs though; and Montenegrins from Zeta/Old Herzegovina are closest to Serbs.

[Moje ime]

They're obviously Serbs from an anthropological and a cultural perspective, given that they're as Orthodox as regular Serbs, but from a phenotypical point of view, they tend to have more 'indigenous Balkan' types (Norids, Balkan Borrebies etc.) than Serbs, not saying that they don't have any Serbian influences in their genetics (the average Montenegrini's height, for one, is much taller than that of the average Albanian). I also think that their mentality is more similar to Albanians than to Serbs, which is from a genetic perspective rather than a cultural one.

You talk nonsense. They have south Serbian genetics, phenotypes you mention are northern influenced and present among all Serbs especially western. Mentality is specific to them only other ex Yu called them lazy.

[MagnusDark]

You talk nonsense.They have south Serbian genetics, phenotypes you mention are northern influenced and present among all Serbs especially western. Mentality is specific to them only other ex Yu called them lazy.

The truth is Montenegrins have some of the least YDNA shared with other Slavic countries. Idk if their clades in the paleo-balkan lines are shared with Albanians, but it at least demonstrated they, by paternal descent, have forefathers shared with Albanians. They have the same levels of R1a as Albania, and their I2a1b-Din is probably the only thing paternally speaking very much in common with Serbs. Some 28 percent or so if I am not mistaken. Maybe a bit more.

[Ford]

Arrogant Serbs with a strong regional identity. Crypto-Herzegovinians.

[Ayetooey]

The truth is Montenegrins have some of the least YDNA shared with other Slavic countries. Idk if their clades in the paleo-balkan lines are shared with Albanians, but it at least demonstrated they, by paternal descent, have forefathers shared with Albanians. They have the same levels of R1a as Albania, and their I2a1b-Din is probably the only thing paternally speaking very much in common with Serbs. Some 28 percent or so if I am not mistaken. Maybe a bit more.

Old Herzegovina Montenegrins are the same as other Serbs; Montenegrins from the Zeta region are quite northern by Y dna, project stats posted below. It's the Brda region which is close to Albos due to obvious mixing that happened, and huge founder effects in clans which had Albo/Vlach founders.

I2=45%
J2=19%
E=14%
R1a=11%
r1b=9%
G=2%
I1=1%

R1a is weak in all Dinaric Serbs tbh, not just Montenegrins. R1a is merely 8% in Dalmatian Serbs for example, but haplogroup I is a wopping 64%.

[Alenka]

Hillbilly Serbs.

[Pribislav]

Present day Montenegrins are divided on few groups. Montenegrins by nationality, who are anti-Serbian. Serbs with superiority complex towards the other Serbs. And Serbs without superiority complex. First and second group are motherfuckers, only third ones are normal people.
First group is actaully evolution of second group.

[MiloshN]

Sub here xD

[Pribislav]

Vast majority of tribes of Montenegro arrived to present day Montenegro from various regions outside of modern Montenegro in 15th century few decades before falling of Zeta under Ottomans (Zeta fell in 1496).
Only 2 or 3 Montenegrin tribes lived in present day Montenegro deep in the middle age for centuries before Ottomans.

[MagnusDark]

Old Herzegovina Montenegrins are the same as other Serbs; Montenegrins from the Zeta region are quite northern by Y dna, project stats posted below. It's the Brda region which is close to Albos due to obvious mixing that happened, and huge founder effects in clans which had Albo/Vlach founders.

I2=45%
J2=19%
E=14%
R1a=11%
r1b=9%
G=2%
I1=1%

R1a is weak in all Dinaric Serbs tbh, not just Montenegrins. R1a is merely 8% in Dalmatian Serbs for example, but haplogroup I is a wopping 64%.

I see. I was referring to a YDNA map posted by Pribislav some time ago. Perhaps that was just one part of Montenegro? in that one R1a was 7 percent and I2 around 30 or so.

[Pribislav]

Bay of Kotor became part of Montenegro in 1945 first time in history. In the middle age it was part of Serbian medieval state, later Venetians, Ottomans, Frenchs and Austrians ruled on Bay of Kotor. In 1918 after the colapse of Austro-Hungary Bay of Kotor joined to Kingdom of Serbia by own will. In 1945 communists gave Bay of Kotor to Montenegro.
After the centuries of desctruction of Serbian identity and Catholic proselitism by Catholic powers, montenegrization under the communists and new Montenegrin state since 2006 Bay of Kotor today have relative Serbian majority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Kotor#Demographics

[Ayetooey]

I see. I was referring to a YDNA map posted by Pribislav some time ago. Perhaps that was just one part of Montenegro? in that one R1a was 7 percent and I2 around 30 or so.

I think that was the Zeta–Raška dialect statistics, which includes all of Brda. There's quite high regional differences for such a small country tbh.

E-V13 = 28%
I2a1b= 26,2%
R1b-M269 = 19,6%
R1a-Z282 = 12,1%
J2a-M410 = 5.6%
J2b-M102 = 4.9
G2 = 1.9%
I2-M223 = 1.9%
Q-Y2209 = 0.9%

[Chocolate_Hound]

Montenegrins I consider Serb by origin but they kind of drifted into their own thing, they speak a strange dialect and from what I've heard they consider themselves to have a unique identity. To me they are like Germans and Austrians.

[Varda]

This is interesting how one Montenegrin recently described Montenegrins (analiticki 12) https://forum.krstarica.com/threads/zasto-se-niski-muskarci-vise-kurcce.978635/page-6#post-47369477

Translation.

Montenegro is specific, you will not find anywhere so many dark and striking women and men. We have that match.

Montenegro is only where exist Turkish influence and Italian in Bay of Kotor. And then we are Dinarics and Slavs.

We have mixture of those genes so we are uniquely beautiful.

We can be tall as Slavs Dinarics, and swarthy as Turks and have a mustache and we can also have blue eyes like the Latins.

Women too.

There is no many blondes here, they exist but i saw much more of them in Serbia, Croatia.

His statement that in Montenegro there are more dark and striking women and men than anywhere has no literal meaning, he thought more than anywhere in Serbian-Croatian speaking regions. Blue eyes as Latins is unclear, but it doesn't matter since he wanted to say that blue eyed people in Montenegro exist.

[Vožd]

This is interesting how one Montenegrin recently described Montenegrins (analiticki 12) https://forum.krstarica.com/threads/zasto-se-niski-muskarci-vise-kurcce.978635/page-6#post-47369477
Nothing is true here...


Montenegro is only where exist Turkish influence and Italian in Bay of Kotor. And then we are Dinarics and Slavs.
Not even close. Mostar is perfect example of that.


We have mixture of those genes so we are uniquely beautiful.
No Italian and Turkish genetics in Montenegro...


We can be tall as Slavs Dinarics, and swarthy as Turks and have a mustache and we can also have blue eyes like the Latins.
Why swarthiness is always connected with Turks? Literally all southern Europeans are swarthy, and Montenegro is definitely south Europe.

[TheForeigner]

They are Serbs, but they were brainwashed by Yugoslav communists to think they are their own people, much like they did with Bulgarian Macedonians or like the Soviets did with Romanian Moldovans in "the republic" as we say.

[Varda]

Not even close. Mostar is perfect example of that.
There is nothing Italian/Venetian in Mostar. Mostar was never under the Venetians and in Ottoman empire was almost 400 years.


No Italian and Turkish genetics in Montenegro...
Not genetics, but there is cultural influence. Northern part of Montenegro was 500 years under the Ottomans and there are still mosques and Muslim population in some places there. On the other hand most of the Bay of Kotor was never under the Ottomans, and long period under the Venetians (1420-1797). Herceg Novi was equally under the Ottomans (1481-1687, except 1538-39) and Venetians (1687-1797). In Herceg Novi exist Kanli Kula built by Ottomans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanli_Kula), fortress Španjola built by Spaniards during their short rule 1538-39 (https://waytomonte.com/en/p-3396-fortress-spanjola-or-spanish-fortress), and Fortica or Forte Mare which at least got present day form in Venetian period (https://monteguide.com/forte-mare-fortress/).


Why swarthiness is always connected with Turks?
Montenegrin guy said that some Montenegrins looks Turkish. Of course there is no Turkish genes in Montenegro. Turkish like Montenegrins are Meds, not Turanids.


Literally all southern Europeans are swarthy, and Montenegro is definitely south Europe.
In Podgorica people are noticeable darker on average than in Belgrade.



They are Serbs, but they were brainwashed by Yugoslav communists to think they are their own people, much like they did with Bulgarian Macedonians or like the Soviets did with Romanian Moldovans in "the republic" as we say.
True.