View Full Version : Caucasus DNA analyzed (G25 averages)
https://i.imgur.com/XOGwCui.jpg
References:
Levant_PPNB,0.0725625,0.1650235,-0.0309238,-0.1380835,0.0323138,-0.062541,-0.012103,-0.0141338,0.0735775,0.0367207,0.0194055,-0.0170098,0.036459,-0.000241,-0.021342,0.0067288,0.0089638,-0.0013935,-0.0054052,0.0192277,-0.0037435,0.007852,-0.0014175,-0.0062658,-0.0047002
Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.08902 8,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312 ,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
Caucasus_GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
East_asian/Siberian:East_Asia_CHN_Boshan_N,0.01935,-0.444802,0.032432,-0.062339,0.012618,0.002789,0.009635,0.003,-0.007772,0.008201,-0.074861,-0.009891,0.009812,-0.008533,-0.010315,-0.005701,-0.004042,0.003801,-0.000377,-0.002126,0.013726,0.003215,0.005793,-0.005543,-0.005628
East_asian/Siberian:Siberia_Ural_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA,0.034147,-0.421445,0.150471,-0.002907,-0.14495,-0.082273,0.019741,0.035998,0.02577,0.000364,0.0837 92,-3e-04,0.015758,-0.048994,-0.04343,-0.029833,0.000652,0.005574,0.004902,-0.012381,0.026453,0.003462,0.001725,0.00723,0.0128 13
Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728,0.033009,-0.081242,-0.184789,0.125325,-0.09848,0.06777,0.002585,0.007615,0.03661,0.02606,-0.002273,0.010041,-0.005798,0.006744,0.004479,0.001326,0.008605,0.001 267,0.00352,0.001376,0.003743,-0.004946,-0.00037,-0.00253,-0.007305
Those results give a very wrong picture.
Proto-Western Iranic DNA as of proto-'Western Iranians' is derived from the CIC component ('Central Iranian Cluster'). 'Central Iranian Cluster' (CIC) = Iran_ChL.
Iran_ChL is mostly CHG.
https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385
Those results give a very wrong picture.
Proto-Western Iranic DNA as of proto-'Western Iranians' is derived from the CIC component ('Central Iranian Cluster'). 'Central Iranian Cluster' (CIC) = Iran_ChL.
Iran_ChL is mostly CHG.
https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385
No it doesn't. Iranian_Neoltithic and CHG are related, however they still are viewed as seperate because of genetic drift (meaning isolation from each other for a long time).
Iranian_calcolithic is levantine/anatolian drifted compared to Iranian_Neolithic.
No it doesn't. Iranian_Neoltithic and CHG are related, however they still are viewed as seperate because of genetic drift (meaning isolation from each other for a long time).
Iranian_calcolithic is levantine/anatolian drifted compared to Iranian_Neolithic.When proto-Western Iranics were derived from the Iran_ChL 7000-8000 years ago, Iran_N didn't exist anymore it was already extinct in Kurdistan/Northwestern Iran. https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385
Iran_ChL (CIC) is mostly a product of CHG and not Iran_N.
https://i.postimg.cc/BbZcnNzq/irn-chl.jpg
Iran_N is a very archaic extinct component and is not really related anymore to the modern Western Iranics. Iran_N is more related to the 'Indus Valley' civilisation.
Aryans aka Western Iranics are mosty derived from the 'Central Iranian Cluster' (CIC)/Iran_ChL component. https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385
When Western Iranic ethnic groups derived from the 'Central Iranian Cluster', Iran_N was already gone extinct (heavily diluted with the CHG) from the western parts of the Iranian Plateau.
'Central Iranian Cluster' (CIC) or Iran_ChL is a true ancestral component of the Western Iranic people. I think this is the original place of the proto-Aryan CIC/Iran_ChL component.
https://i.postimg.cc/C51Fczkc/Inkedmap-LI.jpg
When proto-Western Iranics were derived from the Iran_ChL 7000-8000 years ago, Iran_N didn't exist anymore it was already extinct in Kurdistan/Northwestern Iran. https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1008385
Iran_ChL (CIC) is mostly a product of CHG and not Iran_N.
https://i.postimg.cc/BbZcnNzq/irn-chl.jpg
Iran_N is a very archaic extinct component and is not really related anymore to the modern Western Iranics. Iran_N is more related to the 'Indus Valley' civilisation.
The errors are enough to dismiss that breakdown entirely. Acceptable error rates should be below 7%
The errors are enough to dismiss that breakdown entirely. Acceptable error rates should be below 7%According to whom? It is from an ACADEMIC paper. Those are stats complied by the great Iosif Lazaridis. The whole academic PCA map is based on it. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1
The fact stays that by the time when the 'Western Iranic' super cluster came into the existence, the Iran_N in its purest form was already gone from Kurdistan/Western Iran for a very long time.
According to whom? It is from an ACADEMIC paper. Those are stats complied by the great Iosif Lazaridis. The whole academic PCA map is based on it. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1
The fact stays that by the time when Western Iranic super cluster came into the existence, the Iran_N in its purest form was already gone from Kurdistan/Western Iran for a very long time
https://i.postimg.cc/g2tKmswk/irn-chl.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/3JBBbYYG/pca.jpg
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1
According to whom? It is from an ACADEMIC paper. Those are stats complied by the great Iosif Lazaridis. The whole academic PCA map is based on it. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1
The fact stays that by the time when the 'Western Iranic' super cluster came into the existence, the Iran_N in its purest form was already gone from Kurdistan/Western Iran for a very long time.
here results with the same software and better error rate:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPm0wA5XMAk2Tj_.png
Hajji_Firuz_C:
46.4% Iran_N
8% CHG
32.4% Anatolia_N
13.1% PPNB_Levant
p=0.16
Another run:
Seh_Gabi_C
59.1% Iran_N
9.5% CHG
23.2% Anatolia_N
8.1% PPNB
p=0.38
For comparison with g25:
https://i.imgur.com/9uIUQ2l.jpg
Awuddah
07-10-2022, 03:23 PM
Iran_ChL (CIC) is mostly a product of CHG and not Iran_N.
But CHG itself is mostly a product of Iran_N so you're talking about the same.
In fact Iran_ChL has extra southern admixture compared to the EHG-admixed CHG so Iran_ChL is more similar to Iran_N than to CHG.
You are wrong. They tried that too, but came to a conclusion that Iran_ChL is mostly derived from CHG.
https://i.postimg.cc/50DCRKkD/iran-chl.jpg
try to study the 'Supplementary Information The genetic structure of the world’s first farmers' data : https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2016/06/16/059311.DC1/059311-1.pdf
study this academic article before you makes some statements: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1.full.pdf
But CHG itself is mostly a product of Iran_N so you're talking about the same.
In fact Iran_ChL has extra southern admixture compared to the EHG-admixed CHG so Iran_ChL is more similar to Iran_N than to CHG.
One isnt the product of the other. Rather they are the same population that diverged from each other due to isolation.
Iran_Chl is influenced by Anatolia, Levant and CHG. The PCA the guy posted confirms what i'm saying.
You are wrong. They tried that too, but came to a conclusion that Iran_ChL is mostly derived from CHG.
https://i.postimg.cc/50DCRKkD/iran-chl.jpg
try to study the 'Supplementary Information The genetic structure of the world’s first farmers' data : https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2016/06/16/059311.DC1/059311-1.pdf
study this academic article before you makes some statements: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1.full.pdf
looks like for some reason they didnt want to model with 4 populations. probably for Design reasons of their tables (which is a stupid decision). That's why it picked CHG instead of Iran_N.
If you model with 4 populations it picks Iran_N and has a better error rate.
One isnt the product of the other. Rather they are the same population that diverged from each other due to isolation.
Iran_Chl is influenced by Anatolia, Levant and CHG. The PCA the guy posted confirms what i'm saying.Of course Iran_ChL is a product of Anatolia_ChL, Iran_C and CHG. Iran_ChL or better know as a 'Central Iranian Cluster' CIC came into the existence after CHG.
CHG and Iran_N were much older than Iran_ChL / CIC. But CHG is the most prominent contribution (63.1%) to Iran_ChL.
According the ACADEMICS, Iran_Chl is mostly a product of CHG.
looks like for some reason they didnt want to model with 4 populations. probably for Design reasons of their tables (which is a stupid decision). That's why it picked CHG instead of Iran_N.
If you model with 4 populations it picks Iran_N and has a better error rate.
If you know better than them then write an academic paper to counter their results. Before that you sound like you don't want to accept those peer reviewed ACADEMIC results.
I am not interested in 'special pleadings'. I will rather follow the academic world and science.
According the ACADEMICS, Iran_Chl is mostly a product of CHG.
According to a model and table that didnt even consider 4-way modelling and left out Anatolia.
According to a model and table that didnt even consider 4-way modelling and left out Anatolia.They didn't left Anatolia out, study it again. It has Anatolian_N and Iran_N.
Later on they tried another models and came with a 3-way model as the BEST model!
They didn't left Anatolia, watch it again. It has Anatolian_N and Iran_N.
It did left it out for Iran_Chl breakdown. As you can see the table doesn't include 4way modelling. They probably searched for the best 3-way model possible.
But CHG itself is mostly a product of Iran_N so you're talking about the same.
In fact Iran_ChL has extra southern admixture compared to the EHG-admixed CHG so Iran_ChL is more similar to Iran_N than to CHG.Wrong! Iran_Chl was 63,1% CHG
https://i.postimg.cc/2yzgZTCL/chg.jpg
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1.full.pdf
It did left it out for Iran_Chl breakdown. As you can see the table doesn't include 4way modelling. They probably searched for the best 3-way model possible.For them Levant_N was a better fit than Anatolia_N, because Iran_ChL has also some minor Levantine/Mesopotamian like ancestry.
It is also one of the main reason why they believe that it was Iran_Chl that penetrated the Yamnaya Horizon. Because it had some Levant/Mesopotamian like ancestry in it.
https://i.postimg.cc/2yzgZTCL/chg.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/dVdnJrKb/step.png
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1.full.pdf
Awuddah
07-10-2022, 03:55 PM
One isnt the product of the other. Rather they are the same population that diverged from each other due to isolation.
Iran_Chl is influenced by Anatolia, Levant and CHG. The PCA the guy posted confirms what i'm saying.
You're right. I shouldn't have said that CHG is a product of Iran_N because they date from around the same time. They're the same population with CHG having extra EHG admixture given its northern location.
You're right. I shouldn't have said that CHG is a product of Iran_N because they date from around the same time. They're the same population with CHG having extra EHG admixture given its northern location.
CHG and Iran_N were the same people of the same roots and origin. The only difference between those 2 is that CHG had some more (by 0,4%) ANE in it.
When ANE people migrated into the Caucasus and the Iranian Plateau. The Caucasus was more sparsely populated. This is the main reason why CHG had slightly more ANE ancestry than Iran_N.
CHG had 22,2% ANE
Iran_N had 21,8% ANE
https://i.postimg.cc/gjGHJZ5X/Iran-N.jpg
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1
Awuddah
07-10-2022, 04:21 PM
CHG and Iran_N were the same people of the same roots and origin. The only difference between those 2 is that CHG had some more (by 0,4%) ANE in it.
When ANE people migrated into the Caucasus and the Iranian Plateau. The Caucasus was more sparsely populated. This is the main reason why CHG had slightly more ANE ancestry than Iran_N.
CHG had 22,2% ANE
Iran_N had 21,8% ANE
https://i.postimg.cc/gjGHJZ5X/Iran-N.jpg
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1
AG3 is too old, from Siberia and lacks WHG. Your own source modelled CHG as mostly Iran_N and EHG.
I don't know what's the issue here, it's like discussing if a quadroon is the grandchildren of 4 quadroons or 3 white and 1 black grandparents.
AG3 is too old, from Siberia and lacks WHG. Your own source modelled CHG as mostly Iran_N and EHG.
I don't know what's the issue here, it's like discussing if a quadroon is the grandchildren of 4 quadroons or 3 white and 1 black grandparents.It is a very big issue, because you are suggesting that EHG has to be older than CHG, which was absolutely not the case.
EHG itself was very, very mixed in the first place. EHG itself was a product of WHG, Siberian HG, ANE, and CHG/Iran_N.
https://i.postimg.cc/Jz3yMcpH/EHG.jpg
ANE had nothing to do with EHG. ANE is much older and predates EHG. ANE that came into the Caucasus and the Iranian Plateau was from eastern Siberia, far away from EHG.
Ratmir
07-10-2022, 04:52 PM
Simulated Lezgin and Kumyk results based on the Eurogenes K13 averages. There is no Lezgin average in the G25 spreadsheet at all
Lezgin_simulated,0.1086,0.1073,-0.0256,0.0043,-0.0349,0.0072,0.007,-0.0017,-0.0529,-0.0307,0.0058,0.0078,-0.0106,-0.0028,0.0118,-0.0087,-0.0029,-0.0009,-0.0066,0.0051,0.0051,-0.0003,0.0015,-0.0013,-0.0011
Kumyk_simulated,0.105,0.0894,-0.0271,-0.0136,-0.0353,0.0031,0.0074,-0.0024,-0.0489,-0.0284,0.0003,0.004,-0.0109,-0.002,0.008,-0.0049,0.0047,-0.0042,-0.0094,0.0117,0.0056,-0.001,-0.0024,-0.0002,0.0005
Target: Lezgin_simulated
Distance: 2.2509% / 0.02250869
33.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
28.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
9.2 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 Levant_PPNB
1.4 East_asian/Siberian
Target: Kumyk_simulated
Distance: 1.9467% / 0.01946736
32.0 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
26.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.6 Levant_PPNB
6.8 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.0 East_asian/Siberian
Awuddah
07-10-2022, 05:03 PM
It is a very big issue, because you are suggesting that EHG has to be older than CHG, which was absolutely not the case.
EHG itself was very, very mixed in the first place. EHG itself was a product of WHG, Siberian HG, ANE, and CHG/Iran_N.
https://i.postimg.cc/Jz3yMcpH/EHG.jpg
ANE had nothing to do with EHG. ANE is much older and predates EHG. ANE that came into the Caucasus and the Iranian Plateau was from eastern Siberia, far away from EHG.
I'm saying that EHG, Iran_N and CHG are all contemporary populations and the later is a mixture of the first two. The main extra ancestry CHG has relative to Iran_N is not ANE but WHG-like.
I'm saying that EHG, Iran_N and CHG are all contemporary populations and the later is a mixture of the first two. The main extra ancestry CHG has relative to Iran_N is not ANE but WHG-like.
And I am telling you that when CHG took shape there was no such thing as 'EHG' as we know today.
The EHG male of Samara is dated to ca. 5650-5550 BC.
For example CHG Kotias was from 7,700 BC. And Kotias was mostly derived from CHG Satsurblia.
CHG Satsurblia folks lived more than 15k years ago.
CHG is older, now your turn.
Simulated Lezgin and Kumyk results based on the Eurogenes K13 averages. There is no Lezgin average in the G25 spreadsheet at all
Lezgin_simulated,0.1086,0.1073,-0.0256,0.0043,-0.0349,0.0072,0.007,-0.0017,-0.0529,-0.0307,0.0058,0.0078,-0.0106,-0.0028,0.0118,-0.0087,-0.0029,-0.0009,-0.0066,0.0051,0.0051,-0.0003,0.0015,-0.0013,-0.0011
Kumyk_simulated,0.105,0.0894,-0.0271,-0.0136,-0.0353,0.0031,0.0074,-0.0024,-0.0489,-0.0284,0.0003,0.004,-0.0109,-0.002,0.008,-0.0049,0.0047,-0.0042,-0.0094,0.0117,0.0056,-0.001,-0.0024,-0.0002,0.0005
Target: Lezgin_simulated
Distance: 2.2509% / 0.02250869
33.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
28.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
9.2 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 Levant_PPNB
1.4 East_asian/Siberian
Target: Kumyk_simulated
Distance: 1.9467% / 0.01946736
32.0 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
26.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.6 Levant_PPNB
6.8 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.0 East_asian/Siberian
Yes unfortunately I coulndt find a Lezgin average. Thanks for contributing
Here in the PIE chart format:
https://i.imgur.com/ntcppdI.jpg
I also edited Lezgins into the OP.
Yes unfortunately I coulndt find a Lezgin average. Thanks for contributing
Here in the PIE chart format:
https://i.imgur.com/ntcppdI.jpg
I also edited Lezgins into the OP.
From Dodecad K12b Population Spreadsheet. You can find it on Gedmatch.
https://i.postimg.cc/L8GCfPfT/Lezgians.jpg
Lezgians have 27,8% Gedrosia! It is almost as high as I do have of that component. No wonder that the Lezgians are genetically very close to the Kurds.
You are wrong. They tried that too, but came to a conclusion that Iran_ChL is mostly derived from CHG.
https://i.postimg.cc/50DCRKkD/iran-chl.jpg
try to study the 'Supplementary Information The genetic structure of the world’s first farmers' data : https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2016/06/16/059311.DC1/059311-1.pdf
study this academic article before you makes some statements: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/059311v1.full.pdf
What you posted hurt your case. You got it backwards I suggest you become familiar with these tests. Z scores less than minus 3 present a good model. That’s why they highlighted in pink. They are saying that Iran-Chl = Iran-N + ENF is a very strong signal of admixture and a good model.
If you read the paper you posted carefully they say that they don’t mean CHG literally they mean something CHG like. In the same paper you can also read they say models for Iran-Chl fail without Iran-N
Hopefully they will be releasing higher quality genomes from Iran and Mesopotamia to clarify this
What you posted hurt your case. You got it backwards I suggest you become familiar with these tests. Z scores less than minus 3 present a good model. That’s why they highlighted in pink. They are saying that Iran-Chl = Iran-N + ENF is a very strong signal of admixture and a good model.
If you read the paper you posted carefully they say that they don’t mean CHG literally they mean something CHG like. In the same paper you can also read they say models for Iran-Chl fail without Iran-N
Hopefully they will be releasing higher quality genomes from Iran and Mesopotamia to clarify thisYou can see it at the table S7.25. According to Iosif Lazaridis Iran_ChL (CIC) = 63,1% CHG, 20,2% Levant_N and 16,7% Iran_N.
So, I never denied that there was Iran_N in Iran_ChL. But Iran_ChL is mostly derived from CHG. So, there is by far more CHG in Iran_ChL (CIC).
You can see it at the table S7.25. According to Iosif Lazaridis Iran_ChL (CIC) = 63,1% CHG, 20,2% Levant_N and 16,7% Iran_N.
So, I never denied that there was Iran_N in Iran_ChL. But Iran_ChL is mostly derived from CHG. So, there is by far more CHG in Iran_ChL (CIC).
There’s alot more to this story than you’re aware of. You should read the whole paper carefully. You just posted a strong f3 model where Iran-Chl was modeled using ONLY Iran-N+ENF, but you’ll notice that they couldn’t make the model work with Iran-Cl=CHG+Levant-N or ENF without adding Iran-N. That should tell you something.
The ONLY reason Iran-chl prefer CHG to Iran-N in 3 way models is because CHG has something Iran-N doesn’t. That is something EHG related. However if you start presenting models where Iran-Chl = Iran-N+CHG+EHG+ENF I believe CHG percentage will drop. Best to wait for a couple of weeks I think they will clarify this
There’s alot more to this story than you’re aware of. You should read the whole paper carefully. You just posted a strong f3 model where Iran-Chl was modeled using ONLY Iran-N+ENF, but you’ll notice that they couldn’t make the model work with Iran-Cl=CHG+Levant-N or ENF without adding Iran-N. That should tell you something.
The ONLY reason Iran-chl prefer CHG to Iran-N in 3 way models is because CHG has something Iran-N doesn’t. That is something EHG related. However if you start presenting models where Iran-Chl = Iran-N+CHG+EHG+ENF I believe CHG percentage will drop. Best to wait for a couple of weeks I think they will clarify thisI read the paper twice.
This is really the best model they could get and they tried EVERYTHING with their knowledge at that time.
Some DNA samples from Kurdistan and the western part of the Iranian Plateau were missing. But I understand that they found the 'missing link' you are talking about
And you mean WHG (since EHG is almost of the same age as Iran_ChL)
Btw, I don't understand why you are trying so hard top portray the Kurds more 'eastern' than we actually are. What is your issue?
I read the paper twice.
This is really the best model they could get and they tried EVERYTHING with their knowledge at that time.
Some DNA samples from Kurdistan and the western part of the Iranian Plateau were missing. But I understand that they found the 'missing link' you are talking about
And you mean WHG (since EHG is almost of the same age as Iran_ChL)
Btw, I don't understand why you are trying so hard top portray the Kurds more 'eastern' than we actually are. What is your issue?
We are not discussing Kurds here. Why change the subject. And no I haven’t portrayed Kurds more “eastern” than they are. History and DNA facts are what they are. Kurds and other Iranics are a blend of Iran-Chl + Aryan Aryana C Asian Indo-Iranian (BMAC+Andronovo/Sintashta admixed Medes) + Steppe-IA parthian/Scythian + some Turkic. That’s even from where their ancient Zoroasterian religion came from.
But no you are the one obsessed with changing Aryan/ iranian history to the Caucasus and saying that they don’t have Andronovo/Sintashta/Parthian/Scythian Indo- Iranian or that all this is from Caucasus and Zoroaster was also from the Caucasus which is absurd and totally unsupported by history and formal statistics
Ajeje Brazorf
07-10-2022, 08:53 PM
Target: IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
Distance: 0.0288% / 0.02884446
33.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954
27.5 Levant_PPNB:I0867
19.4 GEO_CHG:KK1
16.5 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAG_BON004
3.4 Levant_PPNC:I1699
Target: IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
Distance: 0.0279% / 0.02786492
26.3 IRN_Wezmeh_N:WC1
23.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954
16.6 Levant_PPNB:I0867
16.1 GEO_CHG:KK1
11.1 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAG_BON004
6.1 Levant_PPNC:I1699
We are not discussing Kurds here. Why change the subject. And no I haven’t portrayed Kurds more “eastern” than they are. History and DNA facts are what they are. Kurds and other Iranics are a blend of Iran-Chl + Aryan Aryana C Asian Indo-Iranian (BMAC+Andronovo/Sintashta admixed Medes) + Steppe-IA parthian/Scythian + some Turkic. That’s even from where their ancient Zoroasterian religion came from.
But no you are the one obsessed with changing Aryan/ iranian history to the Caucasus and saying that they don’t have Andronovo/Sintashta/Parthian/Scythian Indo- Iranian or that all this is from Caucasus and Zoroaster was also from the Caucasus which is absurd and totally unsupported by history and formal statisticsWe are not eastern. Kurds are who Kurds are, NATIVE to Northern West Asia. We have nothing to do with Central Asia. We are not Mongoloids, period.
How do you know what language Sintashta people spoke in the first place. Sintashta people could have even spoken an Uralic language for my part. And if you didn't know, their paternal lineages all died out. They were a dead end.
You claim that the Iron_Age Aryan Hasanlu Guto-Medes were partly BMAC/Turkmenistan_IA. But that's not true. Aryan Iron_Age Hasanlu Guto-Medes had Caucasus_IA ancestry.
Those people were R1b of the same type as Yamnaya. Very different form R1a-Z94 that came thousands years later with the Saka & Parthians.
Iron Age Hasanlu was R1b, related to Trialeti and Yamnaya R1b. It was not related to R1a-DNA and they were not from SouthCentral Asia for sure.
Some Turkic my @ss. You have Turkic ancestry because you are partly a chinc and mixed with the Turcomons. I and the real unmixed Kurds have nothing Turkic about us. Don't project your insecurities on my people. We have nothing to do with the Turcomons. It is no my fault that you are mixed and not fully Kurdic. Blame you ancestors and not me.
Target: IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
Distance: 0.0288% / 0.02884446
33.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954
27.5 Levant_PPNB:I0867
19.4 GEO_CHG:KK1
16.5 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAG_BON004
3.4 Levant_PPNC:I1699
Target: IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
Distance: 0.0279% / 0.02786492
26.3 IRN_Wezmeh_N:WC1
23.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954
16.6 Levant_PPNB:I0867
16.1 GEO_CHG:KK1
11.1 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAG_BON004
6.1 Levant_PPNC:I1699
These numbers are from a parallel universe from a lala-land, hehe
It would mean that Iran_ChL would cluster somewhere between Iran_N and Levant_N on the academic PCA maps. Nevertheless, Iran_Chl is still in the same part of the PCA map as CHG/Iran_N. It is clearly a Caucasoid/Caucasian component.
https://i.postimg.cc/3JBBbYYG/pca.jpg
These numbers are from a parallel universe from a lala-land, hehe
It would mean that Iran_ChL would cluster somewhere between Iran_N and Levant_N on the academic PCA maps. Nevertheless, Iran_Chl is still in the same part of the PCA map as CHG/Iran_N. It is clearly a Caucasoid/Caucasian component.
https://i.postimg.cc/3JBBbYYG/pca.jpg
Are you blind? It makes perfect sense
double post. something wrong with this site
Are you blind? It makes perfect sense
No, it doesn't make any sense at all. Those numbers don't come from academic papers. They come from amateur calculators. Amateur calculators are worthless shit, based on empty air. Some very fake shit here. I would stick to the academic papers. It is how science does progress.
Thesis – antithesis - synthesis – thesis – antithesis - synthesis etc.
If you combine Levant_N with the Anatolian_N, it would make Irn_ChL much more southern that it is on the academic PCA map. Neverhteless Iran_ChL is still a very Caucasoid/Caucasian NorthWestern Asian component.
It would make Iran_ChL = 27,5% + 16,5% = 44% 'southern'. While according to science Iran_ChL was only 20% 'southern'.
Awuddah
07-10-2022, 09:36 PM
And I am telling you that when CHG took shape there was no such thing as 'EHG' as we know today.
The EHG male of Samara is dated to ca. 5650-5550 BC.
For example CHG Kotias was from 7,700 BC. And Kotias was mostly derived from CHG Satsurblia.
CHG Satsurblia folks lived more than 15k years ago.
CHG is older, now your turn.
The Samara HG is just one sample of EHG but this type of HG and its presence in the area dates since the Mesolithic. You can believe there was a population of ANE in the East and another WHG in the West who lived side by side and never mixed between themselves while they did with the Iran_N-like of the Caucasus separately to form CHG, or you can believe that EHG existed during Kotias and Satsurblia's time and it was this population the one which mixed with the Iran_N-like of the Caucasus as your own sources suggested, but it really doesn't matter because the result is essentially the same. As irrelevant as discussing if Iran_ChL derives from CHG or Iran_N because the main composition among all these three is the same.
The Samara HG is just one sample of EHG but this type of HG and its presence in the area dates since the Mesolithic. You can believe there was a population of ANE in the East and another WHG in the West who lived side by side and never mixed between themselves while they did with the Iran_N-like of the Caucasus separately to form CHG, or you can believe that EHG existed during Kotias and Satsurblia's time and it was this population the one which mixed with the Iran_N-like of the Caucasus as your own sources suggested, but it really doesn't matter because the result is essentially the same. As irrelevant as discussing if Iran_ChL derives from CHG or Iran_N because the main composition among all these three is the same.
We don't know what was before EHG in those northern areas. Most likely something closer to WHG or something Uralic/Siberian or NOTHING, just ICE.
But EHG as we know is very young and is mostly a product of WHG, ANE, Siberian HG and CHG/Iran_N.
CHG is older than EHG. If there is some WHG in CHG, then it came either from Anatolia or directly from a pure WHG-source itself.
CHG can never be mixed with EHG, because at that time EHG didn't exist. There was no such thing as 'EHG' that could mix with CHG.
Awuddah
07-10-2022, 09:48 PM
There’s alot more to this story than you’re aware of. You should read the whole paper carefully. You just posted a strong f3 model where Iran-Chl was modeled using ONLY Iran-N+ENF, but you’ll notice that they couldn’t make the model work with Iran-Cl=CHG+Levant-N or ENF without adding Iran-N. That should tell you something.
The ONLY reason Iran-chl prefer CHG to Iran-N in 3 way models is because CHG has something Iran-N doesn’t. That is something EHG related. However if you start presenting models where Iran-Chl = Iran-N+CHG+EHG+ENF I believe CHG percentage will drop. Best to wait for a couple of weeks I think they will clarify this
Or an Iran_N source with higher ANE and an ENF source with higher WHG than the current samples. Anything is possible and as you say we won't know until further studies come out.
celticdragongod
07-10-2022, 10:06 PM
Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.15183177 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.21790130 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
0.26231089 Levant_PPNB
0.27700425 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.33215023 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.38540696 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728
0.60977322 East_asian/Siberian:East_Asia_CHN_Boshan_N
0.62589667 East_asian/Siberian:Siberia_Ural_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 7.3239% / 0.07323921
60.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
39.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
turan4
07-12-2022, 09:13 AM
According to simulated g25 from my eurogenes k36
Target: sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 2.4963% / 0.02496259
22.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
22.0 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
20.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.4 Levant_PPNB
1.6 East_asian/Siberian
Almost 20% contribution from each of the 5 ancient populations surrounding me
According to simulated g25 from my eurogenes k36
Target: sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 2.4963% / 0.02496259
22.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
22.0 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
20.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.4 Levant_PPNB
1.6 East_asian/Siberian
Almost 20% contribution from each of the 5 ancient populations surrounding me
Added you as Tat_Azerbaijan:
https://i.imgur.com/MusuJkI.png
kingmob
07-12-2022, 06:45 PM
I would like to know more about the connection of R1b-L584 and Iranics.
https://i.ibb.co/1mDb8yp/R.png
Sterling Archer
07-12-2022, 10:16 PM
According to simulated g25 from my eurogenes k36
Target: sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 2.4963% / 0.02496259
22.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
22.0 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
20.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.4 Levant_PPNB
1.6 East_asian/Siberian
Almost 20% contribution from each of the 5 ancient populations surrounding me
How do you simulate this? I can't find this option on the website.
My results by the way:
Target: Guti_scaled
Distance: 2.6523% / 0.02652300
33.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
23.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
17.2 Levant_PPNB
15.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
1.0 East_asian/Siberian
According to this calculator I have only 9.2% 'Caucasus_GEO_CHG'. Nevertheless I plot/cluster the closest to the 'Caucasus_GEO_CHG' folks. How is that possible?
Distance to: Guti_scaled
0.17498501 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.18341380 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.20165499 Levant_PPNB
0.20402686 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
0.21176880 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.31227830 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728
0.57924137 East_asian/Siberian:East_Asia_CHN_Boshan_N
0.60791823 East_asian/Siberian:Siberia_Ural_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
How do you simulate this? I can't find this option on the website.
You can convert your 'Eurogenes K36' to 'Global G25' here: http://www.allelocator.com/
Later you can use this site to calculate the results: https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/
copy/paste the code from the first post in 'source' and your personal data in 'target' (here: https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/)
Sterling Archer
07-13-2022, 09:44 AM
copy/paste the code from the first post in 'source' and your personal data in 'target' (here: https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/)
Thanks a lot!
Here is my and my dad's simulated G25 through the website you gave (is this similar to the real G25?):
Target: Steling_Archer
Distance: 2.5569% / 0.02556938
22.0 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
20.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
16.8 Levant_PPNB
2.4 East_asian/Siberian
Target: Dad
Distance: 2.1604% / 0.02160386
23.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
20.8 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
20.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.4 Levant_PPNB
1.6 East_asian/Siberian
Curiously our CHG is similar. Dad is very rich in steppe :)
Distance to: Steling_Archer
0.15915657 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.18875203 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.19415022 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distance to: Dad
0.15426271 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.18220827 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.18905344 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.21660719 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
Thanks a lot!
Here is my and my dad's simulated G25 through the website you gave (is this similar to the real G25?):
Target: Steling_Archer
Distance: 2.5569% / 0.02556938
22.0 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
20.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
16.8 Levant_PPNB
2.4 East_asian/Siberian
Target: Dad
Distance: 2.1604% / 0.02160386
23.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
20.8 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
20.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.4 Levant_PPNB
1.6 East_asian/Siberian
Curiously our CHG is similar. Dad is very rich in steppe :)
Distance to: Steling_Archer
0.15915657 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.18875203 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.19415022 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distance to: Dad
0.15426271 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.18220827 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.18905344 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.21660719 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
The Eastern Caucasus scores less CHG than Western Caucasus. So in your fathers case the higher Steppe and lower Levant is most likely still a sign of Eastern Caucasus ancestry.
https://i.imgur.com/POWI7bY.jpg
My results by the way:
Target: Guti_scaled
Distance: 2.6523% / 0.02652300
33.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
23.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
17.2 Levant_PPNB
15.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
1.0 East_asian/Siberian
According to this calculator I have only 9.2% 'Caucasus_GEO_CHG'. Nevertheless I plot/cluster the closest to the 'Caucasus_GEO_CHG' folks. How is that possible?
Distance to: Guti_scaled
0.17498501 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.18341380 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.20165499 Levant_PPNB
0.20402686 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
0.21176880 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.31227830 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728
0.57924137 East_asian/Siberian:East_Asia_CHN_Boshan_N
0.60791823 East_asian/Siberian:Siberia_Ural_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
Because CHG and Iran_N plot similar and overall the mix made it slightly closer to CHG.
As far as I know CHG has a slight shift towards Steppe for example when compared on a plot with Iran_N.
Sterling Archer
07-13-2022, 11:00 AM
The Eastern Caucasus scores less CHG than Western Caucasus. So in your fathers case the higher Steppe and lower Levant is most likely still a sign of Eastern Caucasus ancestry.
Oh I'm not at all surprised by the CHG scores. Even on K12b the eastern par of Caucasus scores significantly less Caucasus component than the western.
I'm more surprised by the fact that our components are so close, because I'm partly from other part of Azerbaijan. Difference is only few percentage points in every case, and in the CHG case it is identical. Also not surprised by steppe, all due to the geography really.
I assume you made the original pie chart with real G25 coordinates and not the simulated ones, right? So our simulated ones might be prone to inaccuracy.
Not related, but had to ask. How is it that the mountain Jews have higher steppe than the Armenians? :) Is this our, Azerbaijani Jews?
Oh I'm not at all surprised by the CHG scores. Even on K12b the eastern par of Caucasus scores significantly less Caucasus component than the western.
I'm more surprised by the fact that our components are so close, because I'm partly from other part of Azerbaijan. Difference is only few percentage points in every case, and in the CHG case it is identical. Also not surprised by steppe, all due to the geography really.
I assume you made the original pie chart with real G25 coordinates and not the simulated ones, right? So our simulated ones might be prone to inaccuracy.
Not related, but had to ask. How is it that the mountain Jews have higher steppe than the Armenians? :) Is this our, Azerbaijani Jews?
Correct, except the Lezgin one the orginal are only real G25 averages.
Yes Mountain jews are the Jews from Azerbaijan. They probably already had steppe when they mixed in Persia. Iranian Jews do have a bit of Steppe too and it slightly couldve increased in the northern parts of Azerbaijan.
Mountain_Jew,0.095042,0.1325265,-0.0588305,-0.05814,-0.037238,-0.0138055,-0.0005875,-0.011653,-0.014521,-0.0045555,0.0043845,-0.0024725,0.0088455,-0.0088765,-0.0011535,0.0107395,-0.000326,0.004624,0.003771,-0.007066,-0.002059,-0.000185,-0.0059155,0.0010845,0.005269
placebo
07-13-2022, 09:29 PM
Doesn't seeing the yellow color in the Ahıska's cake slice hurts me lol.
Great job, can u do this Turkish sub-group version of this.
I just did the same using the allelocator.com K36 to G25 converter. Obviously these results aren't accurate and just a very rough estimation for G25. But my results looks very different from yours. But I should mention that my 'Caucasus' & 'West Asian' components are higher than average for Kurds (But I'm obviously still Kurdish & unmixed ancestrally). I'm from Dersim (Tunceli) btw. But I have seen a lot of Caucasus & West Asia rich Zaza Kurd results over time.
Multi:
21.4 - Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
21.4 - Caucasus_GEO_CHG
22.0 - Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
21.8 - Levant_PPNB
13.4 - Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distances:
0.16967485 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
0.19425305 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
0.19469760 Levant_PPNB
0.19866351 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.21376068 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.32847842 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728
0.58807824 East_asian/Siberian:East_Asia_CHN_Boshan_N
0.61626792 East_asian/Siberian:Siberia_Ural_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
Can you post your Dodecadk12b results?
Sterling Archer
07-14-2022, 04:22 PM
Of course Gardas. I won't share Kit ID. But here's my breakdown for Dodecad K12b:
Population
Gedrosia 22.42 Pct
Siberian 0.85 Pct
Northwest_African 1.48 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.52 Pct
North_European 8.01 Pct
South_Asian 1.85 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 13.18 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 46.69 Pct
Sub_Saharan -
This is highly unusual. First time seeing such a high Caucasus percentage in Kurds. Almost thought you were Udi :) They tend to have higher Atlantic_Med and lower SW Asia though.
Are or were there any Armenians living near your hometown? Your result is similar to theirs too.
Of course Gardas. I won't share Kit ID. But here's my breakdown for Dodecad K12b:
Population
Gedrosia 22.42 Pct
Siberian 0.85 Pct
Northwest_African 1.48 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.52 Pct
North_European 8.01 Pct
South_Asian 1.85 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 13.18 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 46.69 Pct
Sub_Saharan -
Almost 47% Caucasus is rare for Kurds from what I've seen. But a good enough amount of Zaza Kurds do get like 38% - 44% average.
Yes it's rare. There were a coupe of Kurds with similar Caucasus tho 43-46%. But yours is definetly the high end for Caucasus component in Kurds.
Also some Caspian Iranians can have similar Caucasus. As I know there is a theory that say Zaza migrated to Anatolia from the Caspian region.
Babak
07-14-2022, 09:46 PM
Yes it's rare. There were a coupe of Kurds with similar Caucasus tho 43-46%. But yours is definetly the high end for Caucasus component in Kurds.
Also some Caspian Iranians can have similar Caucasus. As I know there is a theory that say Zaza migrated to Anatolia from the Caspian region.
There was a feyli kurd member that scored up to 48% caucasus with high south asian.
Throughout the years, I've seen many Zaza Kurds score anywhere from 38% to 44% Caucasus. But yes, 47% Caucasus is a little too high and unheard of for a Kurd. I don't know why I'm on the higher side.
I am an Ezdi Kurd and I score 38% Caucasus on Dodecad K12b. But I do score also more 'Gedrosia' than the most Zazaki Kurds. My (Ezdi) Gedrosia scores are on the same level as Sorani, Feyli and Luri Kurds, while I am not one of them. I am KURMANJI, hehe.
Personally I think that the most western shifted ancient Kurds/Medes would have more Colchian (Hurrian/Georgian) ancestry than the eastern shifted Kurds/Medes.
Also some Caspian Iranians can have similar Caucasus. As I know there is a theory that say Zaza migrated to Anatolia from the Caspian region.
You got very strange ideas about the Kurds. And most of them are false.
Can't be. Zazaki Gedrosia scores are too low for those (Caspian Sea areas). Native people of the Caspian Sea score higher Gedrosia scores.
And he has not only more Caucasus than I do, but he has also more Levant and Anatolian ancestry than I do. He is clearly more 'western' shifted.
Zazaki Kurds are actually clearly more shifted toward the west than toward the east (Caspian direction).
It makes sense that the western shifted Kurds have more Hurrian (Colchis, Urartu, Subartu etc.) ancestry.
Zazaki Kurds are also located in the most western parts of Kurdistan and their DNA is clearly showing this pattern. They are actually very western shifted.
Melonman
07-14-2022, 10:30 PM
There was a feyli kurd member that scored up to 48% caucasus with high south asian.
double
Melonman
07-14-2022, 10:32 PM
There was a feyli kurd member that scored up to 48% caucasus with high south asian.
yeah, some west iranians for some reason score a good amount of south asian.
i seen kurds, yazidis and lors being able to score whats around 7 percent of ivc on g25.
might be gypsy ancestry
might be gypsy ancestrySemitic Jews have Gypsy ancestry, since Jews/Semites mix with everybody, from chincs to negro Africans. Aryan Ezdis never mixed with anybody outside their religion. Ezdis who are mixed with other religions are not Ezdis anymore. Never seen a Gypsy who had Yezidi religon, have seen Muslim and Christian Gypsies though.
kingmob
07-15-2022, 06:14 AM
Pontics score high Caucasus on K12b.
This is my mother:
Components %
Gedrosia 16.19
Siberian 0.19
Northwest_African 0.21
Southeast_Asian 0.00
Atlantic_Med 15.51
North_European 3.32
South_Asian 1.02
East_African 0.57
Southwest_Asian 10.48
East_Asian 0.57
Caucasus 51.92
Sub_Saharan 0.00
I score 41%ish and I am half Balkan.
Pontics score high Caucasus on K12b.
This is my mother:
Components %
Gedrosia 16.19
Siberian 0.19
Northwest_African 0.21
Southeast_Asian 0.00
Atlantic_Med 15.51
North_European 3.32
South_Asian 1.02
East_African 0.57
Southwest_Asian 10.48
East_Asian 0.57
Caucasus 51.92
Sub_Saharan 0.00
I score 41%ish and I am half Balkan.
I should've included them actually.
https://i.imgur.com/3uL7cEY.png
Sterling Archer
07-15-2022, 09:18 AM
Pontics score high Caucasus on K12b.
This is my mother:
Components %
Gedrosia 16.19
Siberian 0.19
Northwest_African 0.21
Southeast_Asian 0.00
Atlantic_Med 15.51
North_European 3.32
South_Asian 1.02
East_African 0.57
Southwest_Asian 10.48
East_Asian 0.57
Caucasus 51.92
Sub_Saharan 0.00
I score 41%ish and I am half Balkan.
Great result! She is pure Black Sea native. Next to no steppe.
Great result! She is pure Black Sea native. Next to no steppe.
But don’t forget the modern Balochi and Brahui references used for the Gedrosian component and the modern Atkantic Med references used also carry steppe. For ex if Balochi references have 20% Steppe then he could have 0.1619 x 20%= 3% Steppe from Gedrosia component and 0.1551 x 20%= 3% from Atlantic Med assuming those also carry 20% Steppe. There’s also multiple Caucasian reference populations used in the calculator (it’s not just Georgian. I noticed other populations scoring high Caucasian in the spreadsheet. All those can be called references and some of them could have 20-30% Steppe). He would also get a fraction of that since he scores 50% Caucasus
You can do the same for other components that contain Steppe.
Same logic for components containing south or east Eurasian
chinshen
07-15-2022, 03:10 PM
My results:
Gedrosia 17.45 %
Siberian -
Northwest_African 1.97 %
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 9.82 %
North_European 2.02 %
South_Asian 0.24 %
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 19.57 %
East_Asian -
Caucasus 48.88 %
Sub_Saharan 0.05 %
My results:
Gedrosia 17.45 %
Siberian -
Northwest_African 1.97 %
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 9.82 %
North_European 2.02 %
South_Asian 0.24 %
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 19.57 %
East_Asian -
Caucasus 48.88 %
Sub_Saharan 0.05 %
This is Dodecad k12b. If you have Gedmatch you can convert your results into G25.
Nevertheless I do take Dodecad K12b more seriously than G25.
Btw, there is a lot Anatolian ancestry hidden in the Caucasus Dodecad K12b components.
That's is why Assyrians/Armenians and other Anatolian shifted people could score high Caucasus component be still at the end plot farther away from the archaic CHG people.
kingmob
07-15-2022, 04:28 PM
I think when relevant samples from NE Anatolia are released, Pontic Greeks and Turks are not going to be substantially diverged. They are already super close to LN Caucasus Lowlands and Ikizteppe LC.
They represent the local substratum of the region.
Of course, it could all be coincidental PCA shenanigan matching.
Agreed. I think that the Hurrians ae the least studied people in the Middle East. Somehow people are ignoring them including myself.
It could be that there was some variety between the Hurrians. Northern Hurrians (like Colchis) could be a little bit more CHG shifted, while the Hurrians to the south were more Mesopotamian shifted. And some could even be more Iranian Plateau shifted. So there was some variation of Anatolia/CHG ration in the Hurrian populations.
I am sure that most of our answers will be answered by the upcoming papers.
My results:
Gedrosia 17.45 %
Siberian -
Northwest_African 1.97 %
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 9.82 %
North_European 2.02 %
South_Asian 0.24 %
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 19.57 %
East_Asian -
Caucasus 48.88 %
Sub_Saharan 0.05 %
Pure Assur, like those I read in the Bible about :cool:
Distance to: chinshen
2.41286137 Assyrian_North
2.51073694 Assyrian_South
2.52251858 Assyrian_West
2.82582731 Azerbaijani_Jew
4.56259794 Kurdish_Jew
4.68961619 Armenian_West
5.34663446 Iraqi_Jew
6.42160416 Mandean
7.58091683 Armenian_East
10.14410666 Greek_Pontus
10.18265682 Turk_East
10.19849499 Nusayri_Turkey
10.53960625 Lebanese_Christian
11.02694881 Turk_East_Black_Sea
11.58251268 Udi_Azerbaijan
11.68371944 Turk_Ahıska
11.91124679 Hemshin
12.21533053 Iraqi_Baghdad
12.57789728 Zaza/Kurd_Turkey
12.69967322 Lebanese_Muslim
Target: chinshen
Distance: 100.8155% / 1.00815532
60.8 Iraqi_Jew
28.0 Laz
4.8 Georgian_West
3.2 Kurdish_Jew
3.2 Kuwait2
Target: chinshen
Distance: 121.1949% / 1.21194929 | ADC: 0.25x RC
73.0 Kurdish_Jew
27.0 Hemshin
Assyrians like Armenians seem to be virtually 100% Caucasoid/West Eurasian.
A Svan/Megrelian Georgian (Northwestern Georgia)
Target: R
Distance: 2.7266% / 0.02726581
61.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
28.0 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
10.6 Levant_PPNB
0.2 East_asian/Siberian
A Dagestani Avar. He is originally from this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botlikhsky_District) district bordering Southeastern Chechnya.
Target: Dismal_Knight_simulated
Distance: 2.3824% / 0.02382382
38.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
24.8 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
21.0 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
11.4 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.4 Levant_PPNB
2.2 East_asian/Siberian
His K12b
Gedrosia 27.32 Pct
Siberian 3.26 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 7.07 Pct
North_European 25.46 Pct
South_Asian 1.3 Pct
East_African 0.15 Pct
Southwest_Asian 0.67 Pct
East_Asian 0.1 Pct
Caucasus 34.61 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.06 Pct
user_
07-20-2022, 08:32 AM
https://i.imgur.com/XOGwCui.jpg
References:
Levant_PPNB,0.0725625,0.1650235,-0.0309238,-0.1380835,0.0323138,-0.062541,-0.012103,-0.0141338,0.0735775,0.0367207,0.0194055,-0.0170098,0.036459,-0.000241,-0.021342,0.0067288,0.0089638,-0.0013935,-0.0054052,0.0192277,-0.0037435,0.007852,-0.0014175,-0.0062658,-0.0047002
Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.08902 8,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312 ,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
Caucasus_GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
East_asian/Siberian:East_Asia_CHN_Boshan_N,0.01935,-0.444802,0.032432,-0.062339,0.012618,0.002789,0.009635,0.003,-0.007772,0.008201,-0.074861,-0.009891,0.009812,-0.008533,-0.010315,-0.005701,-0.004042,0.003801,-0.000377,-0.002126,0.013726,0.003215,0.005793,-0.005543,-0.005628
East_asian/Siberian:Siberia_Ural_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA,0.034147,-0.421445,0.150471,-0.002907,-0.14495,-0.082273,0.019741,0.035998,0.02577,0.000364,0.0837 92,-3e-04,0.015758,-0.048994,-0.04343,-0.029833,0.000652,0.005574,0.004902,-0.012381,0.026453,0.003462,0.001725,0.00723,0.0128 13
Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728,0.033009,-0.081242,-0.184789,0.125325,-0.09848,0.06777,0.002585,0.007615,0.03661,0.02606,-0.002273,0.010041,-0.005798,0.006744,0.004479,0.001326,0.008605,0.001 267,0.00352,0.001376,0.003743,-0.004946,-0.00037,-0.00253,-0.007305
Interesting that all Caucasians have significant Steppe/Indo Euroepan, except Georgians who score almost zero steppe. But Georgians still are lighter or at least not darker than other Caucasians, does that mean that CHG had light eyes/hair/skin?
Interesting that all Caucasians have significant Steppe/Indo Euroepan, except Georgians who score almost zero steppe. But Georgians still are lighter or at least not darker than other Caucasians, does that mean that CHG had light eyes/hair/skin?
a) Both the Caucasus and Iran component have significant ANE affinity (Caucasus slightly more than Iran). Which is also a major component of the Steppe component. Although ANE itself probably wasn't light.
b) Neolithic Anatolians supposedly had rather fair skin
c) regional selecting, environment etc..
All of those can be factors for it
Fried
07-23-2022, 01:56 PM
Interesting that all Caucasians have significant Steppe/Indo Euroepan, except Georgians who score almost zero steppe. But Georgians still are lighter or at least not darker than other Caucasians, does that mean that CHG had light eyes/hair/skin?
Looks like there was the West Georgian sample used as a reference because all the ethnic groups in Georgia are autosomally differing from each other and the Steppe/Indo-European component has a different amount in them.
Georgian_Adjaria_Average,0.110029,0.136081,-0.059208,-0.0508187,-0.0402127,-0.0120853,0.0067367,-0.0083843,-0.057812,-0.0160367,-0.001678,0.008692,-0.0222493,0.0040827,-0.000045,-0.0178997,0.0126037,-0.005152,-0.0068713,0.0153823,0.0086927,0.0059763,0.000945,-0.0094793,0.0021153
Georgian_Guria_Average,0.1058553,0.138789,-0.059208,-0.0522183,-0.0391867,-0.007623,0.0108887,-0.008538,-0.060198,-0.0223543,0.0019487,0.0108907,-0.026957,0.0096337,0.0038907,-0.0236897,0.0103003,-0.0024917,-0.0080027,0.0159243,0.0191747,0.0075017,0.0032867,-0.0091173,0.0009183
Georgian_Imeretian_Average,0.1098393,0.1341514,-0.0608673,-0.0474487,-0.0385917,-0.0086178,0.0118211,-0.0062306,-0.0633613,-0.0185882,-0.0007469,0.0113599,-0.0254804,0.0059314,0.003841,-0.0239325,0.0072884,-0.0053717,-0.0101815,0.0153949,0.0138255,0.001657,0.0015406,-0.0076636,-0.0013892
Georgian_Javakheti:JVKH1,0.100164,0.140143,-0.059585,-0.050065,-0.036007,-0.012829,0.010575,-0.004846,-0.055835,-0.02041,0.001949,0.008542,-0.018285,0.003991,-0.005429,-0.010077,0.013951,-0.006081,0.003394,0.005753,0.004243,0.002597,0.001 109,-0.003976,-0.001317
Georgian_Jewish_Average,0.0993513,0.1299879,-0.0591541,-0.060724,-0.0277854,-0.0134666,0.0002014,-0.0053734,-0.0210953,-0.0040351,0.0032246,-0.0019696,0.0064347,0.0008454,-0.001144,0.007463,0.0010803,-0.0032577,0.0030887,-0.0019116,0.0027631,0.0039216,0.000493,-0.0037524,0.0039344
Georgian_Kakheti_Average,0.1063108,0.1322218,-0.0564174,-0.0463182,-0.0368068,-0.010542,0.006768,-0.0040614,-0.0511716,-0.0162918,0.0026956,0.0086022,-0.0136472,0.000853,-0.0016286,-0.0054892,0.01356,-0.0028378,-0.0048772,0.008954,0.0078362,0.0019538,-0.0002218,-0.0069406,-0.0002634
Georgian_Kartli_Average,0.1073728,0.130157,-0.0536768,-0.0431743,-0.0382123,-0.0050665,0.0055617,-0.0067305,-0.0499718,-0.0161888,0.001705,0.007793,-0.0170218,0.0048625,0.0016963,-0.0155795,0.0020425,-0.002766,-0.0052165,0.0078578,0.0071542,0.0037715,-0.0002465,-0.001406,-0.0004592
Georgian_Khevsureti_Average,0.1124002,0.1238948,-0.0435575,-0.023579,-0.0400075,0.000976,0.0084015,-0.0036345,-0.055426,-0.024875,0.0026795,0.0090295,-0.0156095,-0.0017548,0.0073288,-0.0094138,0.0060302,-0.004244,-0.0069448,0.0104738,0.0072375,-0.0001238,0.0020952,0.004217,0.0000598
Georgian_Laz_Average,0.1100922,0.1386763,-0.0571549,-0.0583553,-0.0318008,-0.0112177,0.0087997,-0.0056537,-0.0501651,-0.0105697,0.0027967,0.0094498,-0.017542,0.0044269,-0.0039661,-0.0140766,0.0107784,-0.0014006,-0.0032542,0.0098937,0.0073273,0.0022258,-0.0002464,-0.0072699,-0.0011442
Georgian_Lechkhumi:LCHKH1,0.102441,0.121864,-0.057699,-0.047804,-0.040007,-0.010319,0.013161,-0.007615,-0.056244,-0.014397,-0.002598,0.006894,-0.020812,-0.004954,-0.000271,-0.018563,0.009779,-0.010388,-0.011313,0.015758,0.019091,-0.000618,0.001972,-0.005663,-0.003233
Georgian_Megrelian_Average,0.109498,0.1289722,-0.0561156,-0.0468996,-0.0406844,-0.0081438,0.0102464,-0.0075226,-0.0665112,-0.0231438,0.0002598,0.013668,-0.028959,0.0066888,0.003176,-0.0263056,0.0094138,-0.0056756,-0.0107596,0.018709,0.0129272,0.0029432,-0.0010108,-0.0091578,-0.0024908
Georgian_Meskheti_Average,0.1063106,0.1338468,-0.0571714,-0.0576232,-0.030221,-0.0159526,0.0072382,-0.0053074,-0.0351782,-0.0051026,0.003605,0.0014986,-0.0069276,-0.0013212,-0.0068944,0.0065234,0.0123344,-0.0004054,0.002866,-0.0001252,0.0009732,-0.001731,0.0040672,0.001711,-0.0007424
Georgian_Mtiuleti:MTL2,0.110408,0.131003,-0.05242,-0.031977,-0.039084,0.000279,0.013631,-0.008077,-0.05604,-0.02041,-0.005846,0.009891,-0.028989,0.001927,0.009636,-0.024662,-0.005215,-0.004941,-0.006034,0.006253,0.007487,0.003833,0.000246,-0.001928,-0.00467
Georgian_North-East_Average,0.105855,0.12491,-0.0456315,-0.0324615,-0.0390845,-0.0013945,0.00611,-0.0086535,-0.0524605,-0.0267885,-0.0030855,0.0126635,-0.0213325,0.00172,0.003257,-0.0223415,-0.0068455,-0.0039905,-0.006034,0.009067,0.0041175,0.005132,0.0025885,-0.0040365,-0.0017965
Georgian_Ratcha:RCH2,0.104717,0.131003,-0.058831,-0.057171,-0.04924,-0.009203,0.007285,-0.010615,-0.061971,-0.021322,-0.007957,0.012739,-0.028692,0.00234,-0.00095,-0.018297,0.011604,-0.003927,-0.014455,0.017508,0.012478,0.002349,0.00456,-0.005302,-0.001796
Georgian_Samtckhe,0.108132,0.135065,-0.056945,-0.05814,-0.033237,-0.009203,0.011751,-0.004846,-0.049495,-0.01057,0.001624,0.008842,-0.012042,0.004129,-0.000543,-0.00716,0.012647,0.001014,-0.003897,0.005127,0.006613,-0.001113,-0.004437,-0.011327,0.00012
Georgian_Svan_Average,0.1111199,0.1175476,-0.0501099,-0.03876,-0.0432002,-0.0054731,0.0096649,-0.0037788,-0.0675441,-0.0259004,0.0005685,0.0121018,-0.0272792,0.0049544,0.0026806,-0.0255898,0.0089149,-0.0070155,-0.0123656,0.0184931,0.0155508,0.0037714,0.0029732,-0.0131642,-0.0018112
Georgian_Tusheti_Average,0.1149612,0.1216604,-0.041257,-0.0241604,-0.036376,0.001004,0.0100582,-0.0032768,-0.0544036,-0.022087,0.000065,0.008992,-0.0200094,-0.0036056,0.0078446,-0.0119066,0.0032854,-0.0016724,-0.0049274,0.0098548,0.0049662,-0.000173,0.001602,-0.0,-0.0007902
Georgian_West_Average,0.1116603,0.1359794,-0.0575864,-0.0498066,-0.0404382,-0.0070001,0.0114919,-0.0064612,-0.0634843,-0.0210664,0.0010879,0.0120343,-0.0262684,0.0034544,0.0035152,-0.0212276,0.012947,-0.0061825,-0.0095279,0.0174584,0.012266,0.0020156,-0.0002588,-0.0106037,-0.0025386
Target: Georgian_West_Average
Distance: 0.0250% / 0.02500540
58.9 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
26.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
12.3 Levant_PPNB
1.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Adjaria_Average
Distance: 0.0280% / 0.02797772
52.7 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
27.9 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
13.6 Levant_PPNB
5.2 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Guria_Average
Distance: 0.0275% / 0.02747801
59.7 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
23.1 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
16.6 Levant_PPNB
0.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
Target: Georgian_Imeretian_Average
Distance: 0.0276% / 0.02759102
57.7 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
27.0 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
11.9 Levant_PPNB
2.9 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.5 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Javakheti:JVKH1
Distance: 0.0297% / 0.02973435
44.1 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
30.5 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
12.1 Levant_PPNB
11.5 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Jewish_Average
Distance: 0.0289% / 0.02892571
30.2 Levant_PPNB
23.4 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
21.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
16.6 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
8.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Kakheti_Average
Distance: 0.0241% / 0.02409983
40.6 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
27.0 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
15.0 Levant_PPNB
11.7 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.7 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Kartli_Average
Distance: 0.0305% / 0.03047966
41.9 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
26.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.3 Levant_PPNB
9.4 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Khevsureti_Average
Distance: 0.0272% / 0.02718401
39.4 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
22.7 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
18.7 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.3 Levant_PPNB
7.9 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
Target: Georgian_Laz_Average
Distance: 0.0278% / 0.02775990
45.6 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
32.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
13.8 Levant_PPNB
7.8 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Lechkhumi:LCHKH1
Distance: 0.0250% / 0.02500828
52.5 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
22.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
17.0 Levant_PPNB
4.9 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.1 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.1 East_asian/Siberian
Target: Georgian_Megrelian_Average
Distance: 0.0251% / 0.02511860
61.5 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
25.1 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
12.1 Levant_PPNB
1.3 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Meskheti_Average
Distance: 0.0314% / 0.03141933
32.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
24.9 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.8 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.9 Levant_PPNB
5.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Mtiuleti:MTL2
Distance: 0.0368% / 0.03676686
47.5 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
30.5 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
10.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.5 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.5 Levant_PPNB
Target: Georgian_North-East_Average
Distance: 0.0344% / 0.03437393
44.6 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
22.7 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
13.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
13.5 Levant_PPNB
5.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
Target: Georgian_Ratcha:RCH2
Distance: 0.0301% / 0.03014689
58.7 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
22.0 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
16.7 Levant_PPNB
2.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
Target: Georgian_Samtckhe
Distance: 0.0276% / 0.02756312
40.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
31.9 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
13.5 Levant_PPNB
13.1 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.3 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Svan_Average
Distance: 0.0243% / 0.02425152
60.0 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
23.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
10.5 Levant_PPNB
4.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.5 East_asian/Siberian
Target: Georgian_Tusheti_Average
Distance: 0.0263% / 0.02625540
38.6 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
27.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
18.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.9 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.3 Levant_PPNB
Sterling Archer
07-23-2022, 02:11 PM
Looks like there was the West Georgian sample used as a reference because all the ethnic groups in Georgia are differing from each other.
That is no surprising though. For example, Azerbaijan is extremely heterogeneous, but in order to create this type of charts everyone is grouped into couple of averages. If we were to break it down by the regions it would be a mess.
Also, these results you posted are not that different from each other except for Khevsureti and Tusheti ( which are very small communities anyway).
Target: Georgian_Kakheti_Average
Distance: 0.0241% / 0.02409983
40.6 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
27.0 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
15.0 Levant_PPNB
11.7 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.7 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Kartli_Average
Distance: 0.0305% / 0.03047966
41.9 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
26.4 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.3 Levant_PPNB
9.4 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
The Ahiska (Meskhetian) Turks appear to be indistinguishable from Southeastern Georgians but not the Meskhetian Georgian average.
Target: Turk_Ahiska
Distance: 2.8749% / 0.02874888
43.4 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
28.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.2 Levant_PPNB
7.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Ajeje Brazorf
07-23-2022, 03:39 PM
Georgian PCA
https://i.imgur.com/R8kR171.png
Fried
07-23-2022, 06:14 PM
The Ahiska (Meskhetian) Turks appear to be indistinguishable from Southeastern Georgians but not the Meskhetian Georgian average.
Target: Turk_Ahiska
Distance: 2.8749% / 0.02874888
43.4 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
28.6 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
14.2 Levant_PPNB
7.6 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: Georgian_Meskheti_Average
Distance: 0.0314% / 0.03141933
32.8 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
24.9 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
19.8 Iran_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.9 Levant_PPNB
5.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
May be this Ahiska Turk has some kind of ancient Georgian ancestry when the Meskhetians themselves obviously have ancient Anatolian/Iranian roots?
Frowning Man
07-24-2022, 01:43 PM
My results and distance to me.
Target: Misternoproblem.
Distance: 2.7266% / 0.02726581
61.2 Caucasus_GEO_CHG
28.0 Anatolia_TUR_Barcin_N
10.6 Levant_PPNB
0.2 East_asian/Siberian
Distance: 3.7247% / 0.03724697
94.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
3.6 TUR_Barcin_N
1.4 WHG
0.6 Han
0.4 Nganassan
https://i.ibb.co/JcZMkjx/1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/5k5HKBm/2.jpg
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