Would you support a United Ireland under these circumstances?

[Magister Eckhart]

If the Republic were brought into the Realm/Commonwealth in accordance with Parnell's Home Rule movement rather than the total independence it now enjoys (and has done little with), would you support a unified Ireland?

[Osweo]

'Commonwealth' doesn't mean anything, though. As far as it touches my life, it's just an excuse to have an athletics event every few years.

[Magister Eckhart]

'Commonwealth' doesn't mean anything, though. As far as it touches my life, it's just an excuse to have an athletics event every few years.

Fair enough, then. "Under the crown".

[morski]

I'm an outsider, but would say Yes.

[Orange&BlueBear]

Bring it on, if they want real civil war on the streets.

[Albion]

Despite my Irish ancestors actually being Scottish protestant planters I believe a united Ireland would be the best thing for it.
Ireland needs to get the Catholic church out of the equation though so as not to upset the protestants - a secular nation or at least Christian but with no official denomination.

The protestants were formerly the ones most in support of a independent Ireland within the Commonwealth. It is only when they realised that they'd lose power and that the Catholics would maybe get their own back that they ditched the idea in favour of staying with Britain.

If Scotland leaves the UK it'll be interesting to see what happens in NI. A lot of them generally like Scotland and show loyalty to the UK but show no love of England whatsoever.
I suppose the clue is in the name Ulster Scots.

[Orange&BlueBear]

That isn’t accurate at all. How can you say most have no love for England at all?

Practically all Ulster Protestants have English ancestry of some description, even in certain events like football, the vast majority support England, hence when England played in the World Cup the flag of St George was displayed outside numerous pubs up and down the Country and vast-numbers of people walked around in England tops and not to mention the vast numbers of English people who have moved to Northern Ireland particularly in the last decade due to the relevant peace in the Country and how safe and better life is in Northern Ireland compared to the British Mainland, better education results, low crime rate, and not as heavily infected by the foreign invasion.

On a purely personal level, I don’t support the English football team, as much as I have an affinity for England, I believe if England ever won a major competition the likes of Rio Ferdinard and Ashley Cole would be used to promote the so-called great benefits of multiculturalism.

As for the term Ulster Scots or known as Scots Irish in America, is mainly common amongst those in North Antrim, were the connections with Scotland have been strong since before the kingdom of Dalriada.

An All Ireland economy being better for all the people?... NO OFFENCE, but have you ever been here?

I honestly am not attacking you, but you do realise that people travel from Cork (the very bottom of Republic of Ireland)to Northern Ireland just to do their weekly shopping, the prices down South are that bad, as for the infrastructure, go outside the main roads, heavily subsidised by the European Union, and the roads are terrible, in rural parts it’s like going back 30 years to the 1970s shops with out fridges and cans of coke sitting on the shelves, amount houses with outside toilets, and as for the roads they are pot hole galore.

Along the border, thousands of citizens in the Irish Republic, send their kids to school in Northern Ireland for their education, thousands come to Northern Ireland to join the Royal Irish Regiment and for their work, just you come to Enniskillen, Londonderry, Newry for a day, even as far as Belfast, the amount a Irish who travel up even for work is staggering.

Very recently the Irish government had to abandoned a road programme jointly with the British Government to further link the North West of Ulster with Dublin, why because they have no money.

Outside of the big Cities down South, any one who tries to even tell the people in Ulster that they would be better off linked up with Eire are mad.

When Northern Ireland came into existence, the population of Londonderry per head of population increased more quickly than any other City in the British Isles, why because they all fled across the border for a better life and they are still doing it today.

In Coleraine University, right at the North Coast, over 20% of the ten thousand students on the campus are from the Republic of Ireland, many of them come here because they want to be qualified at a British University to secure a job within the U.K.

All this crap about old Ireland, is better off stirred by Irish Americans on their fiddles, and the aul yarning about aul Ireland, the Island they love so bloody much. Outside that Country who that famous Irishman Conor Cruise O’Brien said : “some of the best conmen and women in the world”, just come and see the real picture for yourselves, and have a conversation with some a these Irish citizens who choose to move to Northern Ireland and they will tell you how better off the people of Northern Ireland are compared to the South.

[Albion]

How can you say most have no love for England at all?

That is what I've been led to believe by some protestants in NI and other Brits alike. My first hand experience is scant, I've never really raised this issue with Ulster Scots in my family or with any of the others I know of.
I suppose they can't exactly hate us, enough have come to England - I'am proof of this, but I think many over in NI feel abandoned by Westminster and they equate that with England sadly.

Correct me if I'm wrong of course.


Practically all Ulster Protestants have English ancestry of some description, even in certain events like football, the vast majority support England, hence when England played in the World Cup the flag of St George was displayed outside numerous pubs up and down the Country and vast-numbers of people walked around in England tops and not to mention the vast numbers of English people who have moved to Northern Ireland particularly in the last decade due to the relevant peace in the Country and how safe and better life is in Northern Ireland compared to the British Mainland, better education results, low crime rate, and not as heavily infected by the foreign invasion.

I really didn't know this, but I hope your not painting false, rosy images in my mind without any real basis.

I knew there has been English settlement in Northern Ireland, but I always understood it to be vastly outweighed by Scottish settlement.
The English have been in Ireland since the Normans, but I think the real movement there came with the planters.
But if what you say is true about the support for England then I'am pleasantly surprised.

I thought the immigration was from Ulster, not to it.


On a purely personal level, I don’t support the English football team, as much as I have an affinity for England, I believe if England ever won a major competition the likes of Rio Ferdinard and Ashley Cole would be used to promote the so-called great benefits of multiculturalism.

Very wise.


An All Ireland economy being better for all the people?... NO OFFENCE, but have you ever been here?

Nope. My farther has, but me never.

I wasn't talking in economic terms though, I was talking in practical terms of having a island united.


I honestly am not attacking you, but you do realise that people travel from Cork (the very bottom of Republic of Ireland)to Northern Ireland just to do their weekly shopping

Yes, I knew that.


heavily subsidised by the European Union, and the roads are terrible, in rural parts it’s like going back 30 years to the 1970s shops with out fridges and cans of coke sitting on the shelves, amount houses with outside toilets, and as for the roads they are pot hole galore.

Well the so-called "Celtic Tiger" is nothing without the EU or Britain and the supposed economic miracle was just EU cash pouring into the republic.

Even as late as the 70s and 80s the Irish from the republic were coming over here to work, the Punt pegged to the Pound and their economy dependent on Britain. For a long time the republic was backwards and agrarian whilst the north was far more prosperous as part of Britain.
Generally the attitude from Britain to the republic was of Britain being in charge still, I think that is why the Irish were so keen to show off their short lived economic success.


When Northern Ireland came into existence, the population of Londonderry per head of population increased more quickly than any other City in the British Isles, why because they all fled across the border for a better life and they are still doing it today.

I did wonder why the balance had tipped from Protestant to Catholic majority. I thought it was largely because of Catholics out-breeding protestants and the protestants leaving because of the troubles.

[Orange&BlueBear]

That is what I've been led to believe by some protestants in NI and other Brits alike. My first hand experience is scant, I've never really raised this issue with Ulster Scots in my family or with any of the others I know of.
I suppose they can't exactly hate us, enough have come to England - I'am proof of this, but I think many over in NI feel abandoned by Westminster and they equate that with England sadly.

Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

Well anyone who equates the English people with Westminster is stupid, especially considering that Ulster MPs sit in Westminster and the current Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (Regardless of my own hatred towards him) promotes the links with the Ulster Unionist Party and the Conservatives, before him Gordon Brown, an idiot but the son of a Scottish Presbyterian Minister and before him Tony Blair, despite being one of the biggest pricks in history, his grandfather was a Orangeman from Donegal.

Obviously there is a small minority of Unionists who might come out with absolute rubbish towards the English, people who speak out of their backsides, but they are the minority and in most cases it’s banter. Similar way there is a divide in Northern Ireland between people from Belfast and the Countryside, I’m a Belfast man myself, I lived outside the town for a few years in a Country Town, 50 miles from Belfast, my work mates constantly slagged me for being from Belfast, and called me a Jamesy, in Scotland, you have people from Edinburgh who detest Glaswegians, in England, the rivalry between Yorkshire and Lancashire is legendary, a work colleague of mine originally from the East End of London, true Cockneys (who fled to Northern Ireland to escape mass invasion of multi-racial inner city London the same as the other cockneys and brummies who have moved here to escape the same), slags the hell out of people from the West Country, people in Manchester slag the hell of Liverpool, not to mention the North –South divide, and a fortnight ago I was in Bristol and they seemed to slag away at the Welsh.

The point I’m making is the odd bit of stereotypical bull-shit and sheer banter is wide-spread through out the U.K. in Northern Ireland however the concept of anti-Englishness animosity simply isn’t true or accurate, even within the Irish republican community, while many hate the Army and some most certainly do hate the English, the cultural and blood links are astronomical. I doubt there’s a paddie in the Island of Ireland who hasn’t some sort of blood connection to the British Mainland, any American who can’t accept that. Take a wee visit to the likes of Birmingham (when the Birmingham pub bombings happened, some a those killed were off Irish descent most notably the two brother), Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, London, Islington in particular and any City in the British Isles and you’re sure to find a GAA club or a Irish centre of some description.


I really didn't know this, but I hope your not painting false, rosy images in my mind without any real basis.

I knew there has been English settlement in Northern Ireland, but I always understood it to be vastly outweighed by Scottish settlement.
The English have been in Ireland since the Normans, but I think the real movement there came with the planters.
But if what you say is true about the support for England then I'am pleasantly surprised.

I thought the immigration was from Ulster, not to it.


Well all I can say to that is at the last census that is available, the 2011 isn’t in the public domain as yet. There was 450000 more people living in Northern Ireland who were born in England than Scotland the fiqures were roughly 16000+ born in Scotland and 64000+ born in England. A considerable number considering how small Northern Irelands population is at that time, and since then the numbers have improved considerably.

While the plantation obviously was a big factor, there was a mass migration in the 1930s, people have to remember at a time Belfast was a real industrial power house, outside the Clyde it had one of the most famous shipyards in the World massive linen and rope works.


As for the balance of power-shifting, over 20% of Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland according to recent opinion polls want Northern Ireland to remain in the U.K. a considerable number are indifferent.

Many will never vote for mainstream Unionist parties, some do and are members, young Roman Catholics from the Falls Road joining the UUP and other prominent members. On Saturday I canvassed on the Newtownards Road in Loyalist East Belfast with members of the BNP, two of those in our group were Roman Catholics who are proud to be British, as more and more people move on from the troubles parties from the British Mainland like the Conservatives and even the BNP could win and in terms of membership are getting members from the Roman Catholic community.

[Magister Eckhart]

Bring it on, if they want real civil war on the streets.

On what grounds? The present state of Northern Ireland is not terribly different than what Parnell and the Home Rulers proposed for Ireland in the 1890s. I should think most NI (except the IRA crowd) would welcome such a union.

[Óttar]

Ireland needs to get the Catholic church out of the equation though so as not to upset the protestants - a secular nation or at least Christian but with no official denomination.
So the Republic of Ireland's full title is the Holy Catholic Republic of Ireland? Is the Pope the Head of State?

[Albion]

So the Republic of Ireland's full title is the Holy Catholic Republic of Ireland? Is the Pope the Head of State?

Don't try and be funny. You know what I'm talking about. Ireland is run as a Catholic country.
Anglicanism might have the monarch as it's head, but this has nothing to do with Ireland.

The difference between Ireland and GB regarding religion is that there hasn't been a major religious conflict in centuries. Ireland's religious conflict is recent and the differences are keeping the nation from becoming united.

Instead of the stubborn clinging to Catholicism the state should favour neither denominations and then the alienation of Protestants would be slightly less which would improve the situation.

[Orange&BlueBear]

On what grounds? The present state of Northern Ireland is not terribly different than what Parnell and the Home Rulers proposed for Ireland in the 1890s. I should think most NI (except the IRA crowd) would welcome such a union.


Why the hell would Unionists want to?

[Orange&BlueBear]

The child abuse scandals could almost practically destroy the influence of the Roman Catholic church in Eire, I read today that some priests might need to start looking for part-time jobs as the child abuse scandals have put people off attending and financing the Church, the Irish Government even moved their ambassador from the Vatican last week because of a lack of money. The child abuse scandals are also going to affect Sinn Fein.

The leader of Sinn Fein Gerry Adams brother is facing prosecution for child abuse against his daughters, Gerry Adams knew about this and still let him work with children in a community programme within his West Belfast constituency before the story came into the public domain, there could be a backlash against Adams as the case gathers momentum.

[Óttar]

Don't try and be funny. You know what I'm talking about. Ireland is run as a Catholic country.
OK, so what you're saying is that Catholicism is the state religion?

[Jake Featherston]

OK, so what you're saying is that Catholicism is the state religion?

Ireland is a secular republic, albeit not as secular as fanatical secularists would prefer. And they can frankly go bite monkey, for all I care.

[Weedman]

There is no such a thing as a country named Ireland.

You have the country of Ulster, and then the Fenian bastards who live to the south of them in a semi-tribal, backwards, land of mists and legends where all of the inhabitants like to eat potatoes and imagine the Pope as their elf-king.

[Weedman]

The child abuse scandals could almost practically destroy the influence of the Roman Catholic church in Eire, I read today that some priests might need to start looking for part-time jobs as the child abuse scandals have put people off attending and financing the Church, the Irish Government even moved their ambassador from the Vatican last week because of a lack of money. The child abuse scandals are also going to affect Sinn Fein.

The leader of Sinn Fein Gerry Adams brother is facing prosecution for child abuse against his daughters, Gerry Adams knew about this and still let him work with children in a community programme within his West Belfast constituency before the story came into the public domain, there could be a backlash against Adams as the case gathers momentum.

not to mention the fact that Gerry Adams and Martin Maginness have been living together as a homosexual couple for the last 20 years.

[Weedman]

So the Republic of Ireland's full title is the Holy Catholic Republic of Ireland? Is the Pope the Head of State?

that is stupid. are you seriously that ignorant?

In Ireland one's religious affiliation actually is more about his ethnic/political affiliation than religion
Most Irishmen in the republic and most Catholics in Ulster would not have anything against a protestant from say, America or somewhere else outside of Ireland (except maybe England?), but they do have conflict with protestants actually from Ireland or Ulster

So yes, Ireland is a very Catholic dominated state but has more to do with the politics within Ireland itself and with the ethnic/political divisions in Ireland than anything else.


You act as if people in the Irish republic dont mind what religion their political leaders are? Of course they do.
Where they live, Catholic=Irish Nationalist/Republican


and all of this is very obvious to anyone who's ever even heard of Ireland or Northern Ireland.

[Baluarte]

Pff.

Freedom for Ireland!, no conditions.

[Proctor]

I support the split.

[Baluarte]

Why would any Irishman want to be under the crown of Windsor? >.>. Mind boggling idea.

[Proctor]

Why would any Irishman want to be under the crown of Windsor? >.>. Mind boggling idea.

According to polls, the northern Irish prefer to stay connected with Britain, why would any northern Irish in their right mind want to be part of an economically failing country (Like the republic of Ireland)

[Graham]

3 Points.

Ireland has turned the corner economically and is picking up at a rapid pace.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25448264

Most polls don't use 'non-voters' from elections, for 'one off' referendums. So can't be taking as accurate. TNS does take this into account and should be seen as the best. But I haven't checked their polls.

The irish would probably prefer their Republic than to Unite, as it currently stands.

[Weedman]

It should stay the way it is.

The protestants in the North would suffer in various different ways if Ulster was united with Ireland, but the people in the Republic dont suffer from Ulster remaining a part of the U.K. and Catholics in the North are more than able to move to the South if they absolutely cant stand living in the North anymore.

besides as long as the majority of the people in the North want to remain in the U.K then that is how it should be.
The Republic should have no say in what happens to the North as they dont generally have the best interest in mind for the majority of the population living there.

[Baluarte]

It should stay the way it is.

The protestants in the North would suffer in various different ways if Ulster was united with Ireland, but the people in the Republic dont suffer from Ulster remaining a part of the U.K. and Catholics in the North are more than able to move to the South if they absolutely cant stand living in the North anymore.

besides as long as the majority of the people in the North want to remain in the U.K then that is how it should be.
The Republic should have no say in what happens to the North as they dont generally have the best interest in mind for the majority of the population living there.

Protestant in the North are Brits by blood, and they identify as such: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83579-Catholics-feel-alienated-from-UK&highlight=irish+feel+british

68% of them at least.

Who belongs more in Ireland? The Irish or the British?

[Weedman]

Protestant in the North are Brits by blood, and they identify as such: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83579-Catholics-feel-alienated-from-UK&highlight=irish+feel+british

68% of them at least.

Who belongs more in Ireland? The Irish or the British?
yeah, you just proved my point. Most the people in the North want to remain in the U.K.

it should stay how it is.

The north gets to be part of the UK, like the majority want, and the south gets to be an independent republic, like most of them want, too.


Democracy......it is a bitch.:thumbs up

[Baluarte]

yeah, you just proved my point. Most the people in the North want to remain in the U.K.

it should stay how it is.

The north gets to be part of the UK, like the majority want, and the south gets to be an independent republic, like most of them want, too.

No, I did not say that. I said that most of the Northern "Irish" Protestants identify as "British". Which on top of them being the descendants of English/Scottish settlers means they certainly do not belong in Ireland.

[Weedman]

No, I did not say that. I said that most of the Northern "Irish" Protestants identify as "British". Which on top of them being the descendants of English/Scottish settlers means they certainly do not belong in Ireland.

I guess that's for the people in the North to decide............not outsiders.



Anyway, they certainly belong in Northern Ireland.

[Baluarte]

I guess that's for the people in the North to decide............not outsiders.

Sorry, I don't believe in democracy. Plus I'm just stating something that is factual: Those people aren't Irish by blood, and they do not identify as Irish either. Not ordering anything.

[Weedman]

Sorry, I don't believe in democracy. Plus I'm just stating something that is factual: Those people aren't Irish by blood, and they do not identify as Irish either. Not ordering anything.

I was referring to when you said they certainly dont belong in Ireland- that' not factual, just an opinion.

IMO, It's up to the people of Northern Ireland to decide who belongs there or who doesn't, since it's their country.

and it seems obvious you dont believe in democracy. I got that much.

[Óttar]

that is stupid. are you seriously that ignorant?

In Ireland one's religious affiliation actually is more about his ethnic/political affiliation than religion
I already know that, dummy. I was being sarcastic. People on here are making it seem like the Republic of Ireland is really the Holy Catholic Realm of Ireland and that the Pope is Head of State. Of course the conflict has always been more about Nationalist vs. Unionist more than Catholic vs. Protestant per se. I've been saying that for years. Protestants who fought for the Nationalist cause (Robert Emmet, Wolfe Tone etc.) are a testament to that fact.

[Grace O'Malley]

There won't be a United Ireland in the forseeable future. Most people have accepted that it would only take place if the majority of people in Northern Ireland vote for it. The Republic of Ireland has a close relationship with Britain and they cooperate with each other in a number of areas. Britain and Ireland have a free travel area so it is not like people can't move back and forth. Ireland and Britain are large trading partners. There is a lot of shared ancestry between the islands. If Northern Ireland want be remain a part of Brtain that is their choice. The Republic of Ireland is quite happy to leave things as they are. It is only by a majority of people voting to become part of a United Ireland in Northern Ireland that this would happen. I also believe there would be a vote in the Republic of Ireland on whether they would want to accept a United Ireland if and when Northern Ireland voted for this. It is not something that is going to happen anytime soon.

[Celxon]

There won't be a United Ireland in the forseeable future. Most people have accepted that it would only take place if the majority of people in Northern Ireland vote for it. The Republic of Ireland has a close relationship with Britain and they cooperate with each other in a number of areas. Britain and Ireland have a free travel area so it is not like people can't move back and forth. Ireland and Britain are large trading partners. There is a lot of shared ancestry between the islands. If Northern Ireland want be remain a part of Brtain that is their choice. The Republic of Ireland is quite happy to leave things as they are. It is only by a majority of people voting to become part of a United Ireland in Northern Ireland that this would happen. I also believe there would be a vote in the Republic of Ireland on whether they would want to accept a United Ireland if and when Northern Ireland voted for this. It is not something that is going to happen anytime soon.

Just think what it would have been like if Greek Orthodox had been the sole denomination of Christianity in past centuries. The British Isles might have been one single country. There would have been no religious divisions, thus there probably would have been a unified state. Of course, the rulers might have found even more economic and/or political reasons to divide the people.

[Grace O'Malley]

Just think what it would have been like if Greek Orthodox had been the sole denomination of Christianity in past centuries. The British Isles might have been one single country. There would have been no religious divisions, thus there probably would have been a unified state. Of course, the rulers might have found even more economic and/or political reasons to divide the people.

Possibly but it is really not a religious conflict. It is about the division of Ireland. This was created by Britain. The British really thought the Irish were inferior and treated the Catholic Irish that way. If the Catholic Irish became Protestant then they wouldn't be viewed as so inferior. People can say all they want but this was the case. I used to get really annoyed about this subject and in all honestly I hated the British. I've come to terms with the situation because it is the past and people were pretty ignorant then. The British really had a superiour attitude and felt that everyone was sub-human. The British people today are not to blame because of the actions of their ancestors. In fact many British today can look at what happened in the past and see how their own ancestors could have been victims of this discrimination. You can go crazy reliving the past. People should move on. This whole question of a United Ireland just brings back all our nonsensical tribal affiliations. Today we are more intelligent hopefully?

We can't live in the past because there are no solutions. Let's move forward and look at our similarities. We are much more similar than previously thought. Just look at genetics. Let me put it this way do people think that the Irish and British are very different? Well then what are we fighting for?

[Celxon]

Possibly but it is really not a religious conflict. It is about the division of Ireland. This was created by Britain. The British really thought the Irish were inferior and treated the Catholic Irish that way. If the Catholic Irish became Protestant then they wouldn't be viewed as so inferior. People can say all they want but this was the case. I used to get really annoyed about this subject and in all honestly I hated the British. I've come to terms with the situation because it is the past and people were pretty ignorant then. The British really had a superiour attitude and felt that everyone was sub-human. The British people today are not to blame because of the actions of their ancestors. In fact many British today can look at what happened in the past and see how their own ancestors could have been victims of this discrimination. You can go crazy reliving the past. People should move on. This whole question of a United Ireland just brings back all our nonsensical tribal affiliations. Today we are more intelligent hopefully?

We can't live in the past because there are no solutions. Let's move forward and look at our similarities. We are much more similar than previously thought. Just look at genetics. Let me put it this way do people think that the Irish and British are very different? Well then what are we fighting for?

I understand. Religion was used as a means to an end, which was the divisive subordination of Ireland. The nominal Catholics and nominal Protestants, who committed horrible acts, were not true examples of Christianity, so we're in agreement there. The homicidal zealots weren't Christ-like, either. My point was that a uniform denomination of Christianity would have prevented the religious divisions that were exploited by despotic dictators and royalty, as well as religious fanatics. The British Isles might have become a single state under those circumstances. I said "might" because nationalism, with no religious component, could have led to secession too. The history of the USA proved that was a realistic possibility.

[Xenomorph]

Just think what it would have been like if Greek Orthodox had been the sole denomination of Christianity in past centuries. The British Isles might have been one single country. There would have been no religious divisions, thus there probably would have been a unified state. Of course, the rulers might have found even more economic and/or political reasons to divide the people.

While you have a point, why would Greek Orthodox be the sole sect?