Daco Celtic's Two Communities

[Anglo-Celtic]

He's Eastern European and Munster Irish, and he matched with Blue Ridge settlers and North Carolina settlers. How does this happen, and should we rewrite the textbooks?

[hurtuv]

All I know is I always confuse you two :p.

PS: maybe rewrite the genetic tests, dunno...

[Grace O'Malley]

He's Eastern European and Munster Irish, and he matched with Blue Ridge settlers and North Carolina settlers. How does this happen, and should we rewrite the textbooks?

Yes it's interesting he got that community. From memory Creoda also gets a US GC on his ancestry account. I only get Irish GCs. On MyHeritage I do get US ones but I don't think they are as accurate as Ancestry.

[Anglo-Celtic]

All I know is I always confuse you two :p.

PS: maybe rewrite the genetic tests, dunno...

How can you confuse us? He's the Boomer, and I'm the Generation X guy. ;)

[Anglo-Celtic]

Yes it's interesting he got that community. From memory Creoda also gets a US GC on his ancestry account. I only get Irish GCs. On MyHeritage I do get US ones but I don't think they are as accurate as Ancestry.

Creoda's Australian, so it makes sense. Daco's half Eastern European, and most settlers were Northern European (unless they were passing).

[Daco Celtic]

It's a legit question. I always associated Munster Irish with settling in the northeast USA so to see a southern connection is a little surprising. The Blue Ridge settlers are known for being Scots-Irish. Also, based on very cursory Google research, I don't see much info on Munster Irish settling in the Blue Ridge region. I could have a bit of Scots-Irish I don't know about (LivingDNA gave me a tad of Scottish).

[Grace O'Malley]

Creoda's Australian, so it makes sense. Daco's half Eastern European, and most settlers were Northern European (unless they were passing).

He would get it through his Irish ancestry. It does tell you where the GC comes from.

[Grace O'Malley]

Just out of interest I did find this book.

The Irish in the South, 1815-1877
By David T. Gleeson


AWARDS & DISTINCTIONS
2001 Donald Murphy Prize for a Distinguished First Book, American Conference on Irish Studies

The only comprehensive study of Irish immigrants in the nineteenth-century South, this book makes a valuable contribution to the story of the Irish in America and to our understanding of southern culture.
The Irish who migrated to the Old South struggled to make a new home in a land where they were viewed as foreigners and were set apart by language, high rates of illiteracy, and their own self-identification as temporary exiles from famine and British misrule. They countered this isolation by creating vibrant, tightly knit ethnic communities in the cities and towns across the South where they found work, usually menial jobs. Finding strength in their communities, Irish immigrants developed the confidence to raise their voices in the public arena, forcing native southerners to recognize and accept them--first politically, then socially.

The Irish integrated into southern society without abandoning their ethnic identity. They displayed their loyalty by fighting for the Confederacy during the Civil War and in particular by opposing the Radical Reconstruction that followed. By 1877, they were a unique part of the "Solid South." Unlike the Irish in other parts of the United States, the Irish in the South had to fit into a regional culture as well as American culture in general. By following their attempts to become southerners, we learn much about the unique experience of ethnicity in the American South.

https://www.amazon.com/Irish-South-1815-1877-David-Gleeson/dp/0807849685

There was most probably Irish in the South as well no doubt. Some would have changed their religion to adapt more.

This books looks interesting as well

Rethinking the Irish in the American South: Beyond Rounders and Reelers
Edited by BRYAN ALBIN GIEMZA


Popular culture conceives of the Irish diaspora as a peculiarly gifted if misunderstood people charged with an exceptionalist destiny yet to be worked out. This might help to explain why census data shows a fairly dramatic surge in those who claim Irish ancestry over recent decades, with southern respondents increasingly defecting from the “Scotch-Irish” column and migrating to the generically “Irish” (more on this nomenclature soon). We have also witnessed the reclamation of other once-marginalized ethnic groups in the South, too, especially Native Americans. Not only are the Irish more southern than we thought, as historians are beginning to recognize,...

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt24hvvm

[Daco Celtic]

He would get it through his Irish ancestry. It does tell you where the GC comes from.

Correct. AncestryDNA said it was a connection through Munster ancestry and others in family got the same.

[Anglo-Celtic]

It's a legit question. I always associated Munster Irish with settling in the northeast USA so to see a southern connection is a little surprising. The Blue Ridge settlers are known for being Scots-Irish. Also, based on very cursory Google research, I don't see much info on Munster Irish settling in the Blue Ridge region. I could have a bit of Scots-Irish I don't know about (LivingDNA gave me a tad of Scottish).

There were Native Irish settlers in many parts of colonial America, and some of them settled in frontier regions with other groups like the Ulster Scottish, to the extent that many people in those regions are hybrids of varied British Isles ethnicities, and many Ulster Scottish settlers had a lot of Gaelic genes just like the Native Irish. It's not as shocking as Chinese people matching Nigerian people, but your Eastern European half puzzles me much more than your Munster Irish half.

[Anglo-Celtic]

He would get it through his Irish ancestry. It does tell you where the GC comes from.

Oh, I get that (not serious in my previous post). I just thought that his Eastern European genes, combined with his Munster Irish genes, would put him closer to a Midwest community than an Appalachian community.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Just out of interest I did find this book.

The Irish in the South, 1815-1877
By David T. Gleeson



https://www.amazon.com/Irish-South-1815-1877-David-Gleeson/dp/0807849685

There was most probably Irish in the South as well no doubt. Some would have changed their religion to adapt more.

This books looks interesting as well

Rethinking the Irish in the American South: Beyond Rounders and Reelers
Edited by BRYAN ALBIN GIEMZA



https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt24hvvm

I found the author about a decade ago, and he made great contributions to the historical record. I had Native Irish forebears on both sides, and the lion's share (almost all of it) of information dealt with just Ulster Scottish settlers, so he took the needle out of the haystack. I'm doing my own research on Native Irish versions of Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett. You're right on religious conversions as they were more Protestant than Presbyterians when they converted (see Mike Pence).

[Daco Celtic]

https://youtu.be/67343pHUW5o

[Grace O'Malley]

I found the author about a decade ago, and he made great contributions to the historical record. I had Native Irish forebears on both sides, and the lion's share (almost all of it) of information dealt with just Ulster Scottish settlers, so he took the needle out of the haystack. I'm doing my own research on Native Irish versions of Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett. You're right on religious conversions as they were more Protestant than Presbyterians when they converted (see Mike Pence).

It's an interesting topic. I think I was always aware of Irish in places like New Orleans but have to admit I thought most people from the South claiming Irish ancestry were mistaking Scots-Irish for Irish. I think there is still some of that as Scots-Irish would definitely be a larger group. It is not something that I have looked into much but I'd definitely be interested in any information on the topic.

[Creoda]

Yes it's interesting he got that community. From memory Creoda also gets a US GC on his ancestry account. I only get Irish GCs. On MyHeritage I do get US ones but I don't think they are as accurate as Ancestry.
And the US communities I got surprised me as well, mainly the Mid Atlantic region. Evidently it comes through my English side, which on the face of it is surprising since that region isn't renowned for being that English nowadays.

Mine and my mother's US communities:

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhv0nk3X/usGC1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/cLJLBmXY/gc1a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/D0g7qJGB/USGC2.jpg

But I guess it matches up nicely with the hypothesis of Albion's Seed, that of the somewhat obscured North Midlands English migration to Pennsylvania and the Midwest. Very cool to know that there is still a genetic trace of that migration that links me those places.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.E9w3euJAmbzqUABaLKQKqwHaHF?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

-East Anglia to Massachusetts
The Exodus of the English Puritans (Pilgrims and Puritans influenced the Northeastern United States' corporate and educational culture)[4]
-The South of England to Virginia
The Cavaliers and Indentured Servants (Gentry influenced the Southern United States' plantation culture)[5]
-North Midlands to the Delaware Valley
The Friends' Migration (Quakers influenced the Middle Atlantic and Midwestern United States' industrial culture)[6]
-Borderlands to the Backcountry
The Flight from North Britain (Scotch-Irish and border English influenced the Western United States' ranch culture and the Southern United States' common agrarian culture)[7]

[Grace O'Malley]

And the US communities I got surprised me as well, mainly the Mid Atlantic region. Evidently it comes through my English side, which on the face of it is surprising since that region isn't renowned for being that English nowadays.

Mine and my mother's US communities:

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhv0nk3X/usGC1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/cLJLBmXY/gc1a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/D0g7qJGB/USGC2.jpg

But I guess it matches up nicely with the hypothesis of Albion's Seed, that of the somewhat obscured North Midlands English migration to Pennsylvania and the Midwest. Very cool to know that there is still a genetic trace of that migration that links me those places.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.E9w3euJAmbzqUABaLKQKqwHaHF?pid=ImgDet&rs=1

Yes it is cool to get some of these communities that are unexpected. I remember Graham getting a New Zealand GC also. It is nice to have links through the diaspora.

[Anglo-Celtic]

It's an interesting topic. I think I was always aware of Irish in places like New Orleans but have to admit I thought most people from the South claiming Irish ancestry were mistaking Scots-Irish for Irish. I think there is still some of that as Scots-Irish would definitely be a larger group. It is not something that I have looked into much but I'd definitely be interested in any information on the topic.

The Scots-Irish were a main component in settlements west of the established colonies, but there were various groups in the mix that tend to be discounted and overlooked, and it makes me a tad paranoid and suspicious. It's orange-washing. They describe Billy Graham as Scots-Irish while his own mother was a Coffey, and the predecessor of his post at a Baptist college was a Riley! Who's the conspiracy theorist *now*? ;)

[Grace O'Malley]

The Scots-Irish were a main component in settlements west of the established colonies, but there were various groups in the mix that tend to be discounted and overlooked, and it makes me a tad paranoid and suspicious. It's orange-washing. They describe Billy Graham as Scots-Irish while his own mother was a Coffey, and the predecessor of his post at a Baptist college was a Riley! Who's the conspiracy theorist *now*? ;)

I think in the past people just had a very restricted mindset. Sometimes it is just lack of knowledge and some of it also could be from past prejudices possibly. There are still people on here like that unfortunately. It is interesting though that the greatest fictional "Southern Belle" Scarlett O'Hara is half Irish and half French.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I think in the past people just had a very restricted mindset. Sometimes it is just lack of knowledge and some of it also could be from past prejudices possibly. There are still people on here like that unfortunately. It is interesting though that the greatest fictional "Southern Belle" Scarlett O'Hara is half Irish and half French.

It's just weird that they're all called Scots-Irish. None of my "Ulster Scottish" great-grandparents were wholly Ulster Scottish (some of them had no Ulster Scottish AFAIK). Daniel Boone was half Welsh and half Western English, and Davy Crockett was half French and half Ulster Scottish, but they're called only *one* ethnicity. Here's a hint; it's not Manx.

[Grace O'Malley]

It's just weird that they're all called Scots-Irish. None of my "Ulster Scottish" great-grandparents were wholly Ulster Scottish (some of them had no Ulster Scottish AFAIK). Daniel Boone was half Welsh and half Western English, and Davy Crockett was half French and half Ulster Scottish, but they're called only *one* ethnicity. Here's a hint; it's not Manx.

It must be due to historical reasons. If Daniel Boone was half Welsh and half Western English he definitely doesn't fit the "Scots-Irish" label. I think a lot of historical figures labelled Scots-Irish had other ancestries also.

[billErobreren]

Just out of interest I did find this book.

The Irish in the South, 1815-1877
By David T. Gleeson



https://www.amazon.com/Irish-South-1815-1877-David-Gleeson/dp/0807849685

There was most probably Irish in the South as well no doubt. Some would have changed their religion to adapt more.

This books looks interesting as well

Rethinking the Irish in the American South: Beyond Rounders and Reelers
Edited by BRYAN ALBIN GIEMZA



https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt24hvvm
Great find.
Good deal of films did reference the Irish fighting for the confederacy, they wouldn't have done that if their goal was Philadelphia or Boston all along. Many stayed and there were plenty that turned up even in colonial times, but they were overlooked or grossly undercounted, same goes for the Welsh there. Irish were turning up in New France and Spanish territory in many cases, but somehow glossed over in the American deep south. Not really surprised about those links in Daco's case.

[Anglo-Celtic]

It must be due to historical reasons. If Daniel Boone was half Welsh and half Western English he definitely doesn't fit the "Scots-Irish" label. I think a lot of historical figures labelled Scots-Irish had other ancestries also.

There's absolutely no doubt about it. That's what I mean by orange-washing. It sometimes defies basic logic and common sense. It's like Patrick McGee claiming that he has not an ounce of Gaelic blood flowing through his veins.

[Grace O'Malley]

Great find.
Good deal of films did reference the Irish fighting for the confederacy, they wouldn't have done that if their goal was Philadelphia or Boston all along. Many stayed and there were plenty that turned up even in colonial times, but they were overlooked or grossly undercounted, same goes for the Welsh there. Irish were turning up in New France and Spanish territory in many cases, but somehow glossed over in the American deep south. Not really surprised about those links in Daco's case.

I'm interested that you mentioned the Welsh. I think the Welsh are the most neglected in an American context. You don't really hear about Welsh-Americans. :)

[Daco Celtic]

Community History according AncestryDNA

"The 18th-century settlers of North Carolina’s central Piedmont and western counties were primarily Scots-Irish and German migrants. Most came from Pennsylvania and the Mid-Atlantic by following the Great Wagon Road, a former Native American trading trail. English migrants from Virginia also settled in the state, often in the eastern portions. The central and western regions tended to have small family farms and fewer enslaved people than farther south, making the culture and economy distinct from Coastal North Carolina. In the 19th and 20th centuries, the region became a leading center for textiles, furniture, handicrafts, and technology."

[billErobreren]

There's absolutely no doubt about it. That's what I mean by orange-washing. It sometimes defies basic logic and common sense. It's like Patrick McGee claiming that he has not an ounce of Gaelic blood flowing through his veins.

Hell, I've spoken to people that look shocked when I acknowledge their names are Welsh (like Davies, for instance), those people must've had a presence in the south, how could they not have? Theirs, is very likely the most obscured of British Isles input here.

[billErobreren]

I'm interested that you mentioned the Welsh. I think the Welsh are the most neglected in an American context. You don't really hear about Welsh-Americans. :)

That's a right shame too, never knew what it was with them, but they've always mystified me. The most beautiful musical traditions that match those of Ireland, the closest looking people to the Irish that I've ever seen and the most protective of their language out of all the Celtic countries. They don't get enough love. Might have to do with my grandmother she loved ballads like Myfanwy & Y Deryn Pur, ma herself was a fan of Mary Hopkins, once I found some of her songs in Welsh her girlish fascination rekindled.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Hell, I've spoken to people that look shocked when I acknowledge their names are Welsh (like Davies, for instance), those people must've had a presence in the south, how could they not have? Theirs, is very likely the most obscured of British Isles input here.

Wales is the home of coal mining and gospel singing, and it has mountains. It's the Appalachia of the British Isles. All four of my grandparents had some Welsh ancestry. I have yet to eat rabbit, though.

[billErobreren]

Wales is the home of coal mining and gospel singing, and it has mountains. It's the Appalachia of the British Isles. All four of my grandparents had some Welsh ancestry. I have yet to eat rabbit, though.

Rabbit or Welsh rarebit? Rabbit's Western Europe's Chinese takeout before there was Chinese takeout, you won't feel full for long, overrated protein and rarebit has no meat, so no love lost. You must've had leek in soups though, I'd count that, Welsh immersive as can get.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Community History according AncestryDNA

"The 18th-century settlers of North Carolina’s central Piedmont and western counties were primarily Scots-Irish and German migrants. Most came from Pennsylvania and the Mid-Atlantic by following the Great Wagon Road, a former Native American trading trail. English migrants from Virginia also settled in the state, often in the eastern portions. The central and western regions tended to have small family farms and fewer enslaved people than farther south, making the culture and economy distinct from Coastal North Carolina. In the 19th and 20th centuries, the region became a leading center for textiles, furniture, handicrafts, and technology."

Here we go again with the "primarily Scots-Irish and German". It's a plot, I tell you! The German presence was there, but it was not that great. My relative, who took the test, had like 1% of kraut.

[Grace O'Malley]

That's a right shame too, never knew what it was with them, but they've always mystified me. The most beautiful musical traditions that match those of Ireland, the closest looking people to the Irish that I've ever seen and the most protective of their language out of all the Celtic countries. They don't get enough love. Might have to do with my grandmother she loved ballads like Myfanwy & Y Deryn Pur, ma herself was a fan of Mary Hopkins, once I found some of her songs in Welsh her girlish fascination rekindled.

The Welsh are a great people and the best at keeping alive their ancient language. I also love the Welsh myths. They most probably just blended in the US mix so didn't need to assert their identity much.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Rabbit or Welsh rarebit? Rabbit's Western Europe's Chinese takeout before there was Chinese takeout, you won't feel full for long, overrated protein and rarebit has no meat, so no love lost. You must've had leek in soups though, I'd count that, Welsh immersive as can get.

We had our own hybrid meals. You get great hotdogs where my parents are from, but they have onions, not leeks.

[Grace O'Malley]

Wales is the home of coal mining and gospel singing, and it has mountains. It's the Appalachia of the British Isles. All four of my grandparents had some Welsh ancestry. I have yet to eat rabbit, though.

My maternal side came from an area of mountains and mining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvermines

[Grace O'Malley]

If you look at someone like Tommy Lee Jones there is no mention of Welsh in his ancestry despite having such a Welsh surname.

[billErobreren]

The Welsh are a great people and the best at keeping alive their ancient language. I also love the Welsh myths. They most probably just blended in the US mix so didn't need to assert their identity much.

Pretty much. They'd had to have been as passive or as reluctant to blend in as many of our earliest Irish arrivals, guaranteed. You look up Welsh American and small handful pop up, Mitt Romney's wife or Tom Cruise. Okay, mind telling me how we got these many Joneses? That'd be nice. Their mythology's is exquisite can't agree with that enough.

[Creoda]

Pretty much. They'd had to have been as passive or as reluctant to blend in as many of our earliest Irish arrivals, guaranteed. You look up Welsh American and small handful pop up, Mitt Romney's wife or Tom Cruise. Okay, mind telling me how we got these many Joneses? That'd be nice. Their mythology's is exquisite can't agree with that enough.
Jones is Welsh and English, that's why it's so common across the English speaking world (the 2nd most common name in Aus despite us having relatively little Welsh migration, even less than Cornish). The Welsh influence in the US is larger however they were mixing with the English population there right from the beginning in the 1600s, so it's no wonder they're obscured.

[Anglo-Celtic]

My maternal side came from an area of mountains and mining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvermines

We just might be the only five people of Irish descent left on the forum, and you're the only pure-breed here. Talk about an Irish diaspora!

[Grace O'Malley]

Pretty much. They'd had to have been as passive or as reluctant to blend in as many of our earliest Irish arrivals, guaranteed. You look up Welsh American and small handful pop up, Mitt Romney's wife or Tom Cruise. Okay, mind telling me how we got these many Joneses? That'd be nice. Their mythology's is exquisite can't agree with that enough.

I think as people interested in ancestry and understanding surname origins it is something that you or I would be aware of more. I did however go to school with a family called Jones who actually had no Welsh ancestry. That was because they were actually of German ancestry but changed their surname to Jones after the war. This was in Australia as well. There was another family as well that had Austrian origin that changed their surname to a more Anglo surname. This would have happened in the US also.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Pretty much. They'd had to have been as passive or as reluctant to blend in as many of our earliest Irish arrivals, guaranteed. You look up Welsh American and small handful pop up, Mitt Romney's wife or Tom Cruise. Okay, mind telling me how we got these many Joneses? That'd be nice. Their mythology's is exquisite can't agree with that enough.

Look at Andy Griffith, Vincent Price, George Jones, Hank Williams, Jerry Lee Lewis, Lorrie Morgan, and Morgan Wallen. They're all Scots-Irish.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I think as people interested in ancestry and understanding surname origins it is something that you or I would be aware of more. I did however go to school with a family called Jones who actually had no Welsh ancestry. That was because they were actually of German ancestry but changed their surname to Jones after the war. This was in Australia as well. There was another family as well that had Austrian origin that changed their surname to a more Anglo surname. This would have happened in the US also.

It was common for census takers and/or Irish settlers to drop the "0'" from their surnames. Most settlers kept the "Mc", though, and "Donald's" isn't the best name for a fast food joint when you think about it.

[billErobreren]

Jones is Welsh and English, that's why it's so common across the English speaking world (the 2nd most common name in Aus despite us having relatively little Welsh migration, even less than Cornish). The Welsh influence in the US is larger however they were mixing with the English population there right from the beginning in the 1600s, so it's no wonder they're obscured.

Not disputing that with Jones as a name, currently there's more people with names like Davis in England than there are living in Wales herself. They must've found great success from an early point, our black population is the source of many, if not the greater deal of the Welsh names, to be honest. Moreover, the president of the confederacy was of Welsh ancestry(born in a state where now virtually everyone is 'Scots-Irish', funnily enough), they just had a presence here that is shockingly overlooked, that's the only gripe.

About Welsh settlement in Australia, that bit I found surprising. Wasn't Julia Gillard half Welsh or something close to that? I know the Minogue sisters are half Welsh. How many Welsh descended are there by your reckoning?

[billErobreren]

Look at Andy Griffith, Vincent Price, George Jones, Hank Williams, Jerry Lee Lewis, Lorrie Morgan, and Morgan Wallen. They're all Scots-Irish.

Love me some George Jones and Hank Williams

[Grace O'Malley]

It was common for census takers and/or Irish settlers to drop the "0'" from their surnames. Most settlers kept the "Mc", though, and "Donald's" isn't the best name for a fast food joint when you think about it.

That's was common in Ireland also. I have no O surnames in my family tree and they would originally have had the O prefix. My maiden surname is one of these also. It also happened with Mc surnames in Ireland.

[billErobreren]

I think as people interested in ancestry and understanding surname origins it is something that you or I would be aware of more. I did however go to school with a family called Jones who actually had no Welsh ancestry. That was because they were actually of German ancestry but changed their surname to Jones after the war. This was in Australia as well. There was another family as well that had Austrian origin that changed their surname to a more Anglo surname. This would have happened in the US also.

It happened too often around here, bear in mind, we got more German and Dutch than the Aussies did, many Poles with unpronounceable names would do this too, though not enough, occupational surnames are a common happening in West Germanic countries. Obviously the former could do it with greater success, just take the two dots off that vowel, swap them, if needed and presto: you're English now, Heinrich.

[Anglo-Celtic]

That's was common in Ireland also. I have no O surnames in my family tree and they would originally have had the O prefix. My maiden surname is one of these also. It also happened with Mc surnames in Ireland.

I have a ton of Mc surnames in my tree. I think that the historians lied about Highland Scottish settlers too. ;) I get that not all Mc surnames came from Highland Scotland, but many of mine did. Some of the clan feuds made the Hatfields and the McCoys look like a church picnic.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Love me some George Jones and Hank Williams

Did you know that Jerry Lee Lewis (Welsh surname) is a cousin of both Mickey Gilley (Irish surname) and Jimmy Swaggart (English or German surname?), and his other cousin is named Carl McVoy (Irish or Scottish surname). Do you see the ethnic cleansing of Celtic Americans going on here? ;)

[Grace O'Malley]

It was common for census takers and/or Irish settlers to drop the "0'" from their surnames. Most settlers kept the "Mc", though, and "Donald's" isn't the best name for a fast food joint when you think about it.

Also a lot of people don't realise that McDonald's were of Irish origin. Both their parents were born in Co Kerry. That is the fast food chain.

[Grace O'Malley]

I have a ton of Mc surnames in my tree. I think that the historians lied about Highland Scottish settlers too. ;) I get that not all Mc surnames came from Highland Scotland, but many of mine did. Some of the clan feuds made the Hatfields and the McCoys look like a church picnic.

Many of the Highlanders that went to Ulster were Catholic and blended into the Catholic community there. Sorley Boy McDonnell was very prominent in Ulster and married into the O'Neills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorley_Boy_MacDonnell

[Creoda]

Not disputing that with Jones as a name, currently there's more people with names like Davis in England than there are living in Wales herself. They must've found great success from an early point, our black population is the source of many, if not the greater deal of the Welsh names, to be honest. Moreover, the president of the confederacy was of Welsh ancestry(born in a state where now virtually everyone is 'Scots-Irish', funnily enough), they just had a presence here that is shockingly overlooked, that's the only gripe.

About Welsh settlement in Australia, that bit I found surprising. Wasn't Julia Gillard half Welsh or something close to that? I know the Minogue sisters are half Welsh. How many Welsh descended are there by your reckoning?
Julia Gillard was born in Wales but is English/Irish with no Welsh ancestry. The late Olivia Newton-John was largely Welsh, although born in England.

I couldn't say how many people have Welsh ancestry tbh, probably many but it would be minor ancestry in most cases. I mean I almost certainly have Welsh ancestry but it's so minor I don't mention it, formally or informally. Officially only 0.44% of Australians claimed Welsh ancestry, and that was in 2006, so would be less now.

I have a study of the genealogical origins of multigenerational Australians that I need to complete, so I'll get back to that question.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Also a lot of people don't realise that McDonald's were of Irish origin. Both their parents were born in Co Kerry. That is the fast food chain.

I had no idea nor inkling of that fun fact. The clown should be a leprechaun. Next, you'll tell me that Ray Kroc is from County Cork. Of course, that would explain the Shamrock Shakes that are sold around Saint Patrick's Day.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Many of the Highlanders that went to Ulster were Catholic and blended into the Catholic community there. Sorley Boy McDonnell was very prominent in Ulster and married into the O'Neills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorley_Boy_MacDonnell

I have a McDonnell line, and they were hereditary gallowglass. They settled in County Wicklow, and they likely were distant cousins of Sorley Boy, all of whom were the first Scots-Irish according to Queen Liz.

[Grace O'Malley]

I had no idea nor inkling of that fun fact. The clown should be a leprechaun. Next, you'll tell me that Ray Kroc is from County Cork. Of course, that would explain the Shamrock Shakes that are sold around Saint Patrick's Day.

It is clear on census records and the father's name is Patrick and the mother was a Curran. Both parents were from Co Kerry. Ray Kroc is the man who made McDonald's the global success that it is. He is the one that would have made all the money.

https://multiculturalcookingnetwork.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/irish-food-pioneers-the-mcdonald-brothers/

[Anglo-Celtic]

It is clear on census records and the father's name is Patrick and the mother was a Curran. Both parents were from Co Kerry. Ray Kroc is the man who made McDonald's the global success that it is. He is the one that would have made all the money.

https://multiculturalcookingnetwork.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/irish-food-pioneers-the-mcdonald-brothers/

Ray Kroc was a Bohemian. He was the Czech who wrote the checks.

[Daco Celtic]

There were Native Irish settlers in many parts of colonial America, and some of them settled in frontier regions with other groups like the Ulster Scottish, to the extent that many people in those regions are hybrids of varied British Isles ethnicities, and many Ulster Scottish settlers had a lot of Gaelic genes just like the Native Irish. It's not as shocking as Chinese people matching Nigerian people, but your Eastern European half puzzles me much more than your Munster Irish half.

Scots-Irish are the Transylvanian Vlachs/Romanians of the British Isles with their mountain wanderlust. Appalachian Mountains, Carpathian Mountains, same deal.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Scots-Irish are the Transylvanian Vlachs/Romanians of the British Isles with their mountain wanderlust. Appalachian Mountains, Carpathian Mountains, same deal.

This is true. That's why some hillbillies are vampires.

[Daco Celtic]

This is true. That's why some hillbillies are vampires.

Vlachs are the original hillbillies and set the template for the Scots-Irish.

https://i.imgur.com/9989qRD.jpg

https://youtu.be/GI4kKShEtCM

[Blondie]

As i know his romanian ancestry is from Fogaras or Máramaros, both area had significant german population, obviously his romanian ancestry has partly transylvanian saxon roots, so genetically he can pass into north western american population.

[Anglo-Celtic]

As i know his romanian ancestry is from Fogaras or Máramaros, both area had significant german population, obviously his romanian ancestry has partly transylvanian saxon roots, so genetically he can pass into north western american population.

That's a good theory. Still, you would think that he would match more with a Midwest community, so I credit his strong Gaelic genes.

[billErobreren]

That's a good theory. Still, you would think that he would match more with a Midwest community, so I credit his strong Gaelic genes.
Either way, this Midwesterner welcomes him.
He sounds borderline Wisconsinite in spite of his California love, referencing a 3 year old thread here, but very familiar accent.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Either way, this Midwesterner welcomes him.
He sounds borderline Wisconsinite in spite of his California love, referencing a 3 year old thread here, but very familiar accent.

I think that he has Michigan roots. That's a neighbor to 'Wiscahhhhnson".

[Daco Celtic]

Either way, this Midwesterner welcomes him.
He sounds borderline Wisconsinite in spite of his California love, referencing a 3 year old thread here, but very familiar accent.

My parents grew up in Michigan and had nasally accents so I picked it up a bit. I think I talk faster than most Midwesterners though which is more of a Bay Area trait. I do have fond memories of the upper Midwest from visiting Michigan as a kid during the summer. The whole summer lake culture there is pretty cool.

[billErobreren]

My parents grew up in Michigan and had nasally accents so I picked it up a bit. I think I talk faster than most Midwesterners though which is more of a Bay Area trait. I do have fond memories of the upper Midwest from visiting Michigan as a kid during the summer. The whole summer lake culture there is pretty cool.

Considering the fact that I grew up around the Council Bluffs area, you're in good company, pretty fast talker, that's the Dane in me refusing to go away, flat and fast paced manner of talking, not much melody. I get Missouri more often for mine. There's some slip ups though, the way I pronounce; rag, flag, roof and root, for instance, especially after a few drinks.

[Daco Celtic]

Considering the fact that I grew up around the Council Bluffs area, you're in good company, pretty fast talker, that's the Dane in me refusing to go away, flat and fast paced manner of talking, not much melody. I get Missouri more often for mine. There's some slip ups though, the way I pronounce; rag, flag, roof and root, for instance, especially after a few drinks.

I often think of Chuck Grassley for an Iowa accent. Council Bluffs is almost getting into the Nebraska neutral accent zone which is popular for newscasters. I see as Michigan
as more nasally. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/neutral-american-accent

I imagine Scandinavian influenced parts of the Midwest have have a unique pace to their speech, perhaps its faster like you mentioned with Danes.

[billErobreren]

I often think of Chuck Grassley for an Iowa accent. Council Bluffs is almost getting into the Nebraska neutral accent zone which is popular for newscasters. I see as Michigan
as more nasally. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/neutral-american-accent

I imagine Scandinavian influenced parts of the Midwest have have a unique pace to their speech, perhaps its faster like you mentioned with Danes.

Ah, coinkidink there, it was in Blair, NE that I spent my formative years, too near Iowa, but our lines are kind of blurred around the Omaha-Council Bluffs area.

I'd say yes, in the case of the Dakotas there's a way they talk that's reminiscent of Swedes. There's a melody to Standard Swedish that Danish lacks, phonetically, Danish can be a pain.

[Daco Celtic]

Ah, coinkidink there, it was in Blair, NE that I spent my formative years, too near Iowa, but our lines are kind of blurred around the Omaha-Council Bluffs area.

I'd say yes, in the case of the Dakotas there's a way they talk that's reminiscent of Swedes. There's a melody to Standard Swedish that Danish lacks, phonetically, Danish can be a pain.

I always wondered what was going on with Tom Brokaw since he is from South Dakota. I can't figure out if that is some BS broadcaster school accent or a real reflection of South Dakota.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I always wondered what was going on with Tom Brokaw since he is from South Dakota. I can't figure out if that is some BS broadcaster school accent or a real reflection of South Dakota.

I was born and raised in the Midwest. When I was a kid, I thought that we were the only people in the world without an accent.

[billErobreren]

I always wondered what was going on with Tom Brokaw since he is from South Dakota. I can't figure out if that is some BS broadcaster school accent or a real reflection of South Dakota.
Tom's is actually subtle compared to some I've heard, kind of overrehearsed sounding with a hint of Fargo. Love SD though.


I was born and raised in the Midwest. When I was a kid, I thought that we were the only people in the world without an accent.

Nah, we do, some more subtle than others. While I was working at Illinois (hated it there), I could pinpoint Iowans, Wisconsinites, Minnesotans, some words would just give them away. Iowans sound identical, only slightly whinier. Would pronounce Nebraska like Nebræskeh, something weird like that. Either way, wouldn't trade 'em. Too fond of their quirks.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Tom's is actually subtle compared to some I've heard, kind of overrehearsed sounding with a hint of Fargo. Love SD though.



Nah, we do, some more subtle than others. While I was working at Illinois (hated it there), I could pinpoint Iowans, Wisconsinites, Minnesotans, some words would just give them away. Iowans sound identical, only slightly whinier. Would pronounce Nebraska like Nebræskeh, something weird like that. Either way, wouldn't trade 'em. Too fond of their quirks.

I'm an Ohioan, but you're right. I found out that I had an accent when some New York chicks said "those guys talk funny".

[Graham]

Ancestry does have a whitepaper on their Communities, if anyone has spare time to have a look. Explains a lot.

https://www.ancestry.com/cs/dna-help/communities/whitepaper?_gl=1*1teopjq*_ga*NjExODM3Nzg3LjE2NjE3O DUxNzQ.*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY2MjI3ODM4Ni4xNC4xLjE2NjI yNzkwNjcuMC4wLjA.

[billErobreren]

I'm an Ohioan, but you're right.
An Ohioan? Well in terms of neutrality the average Ohioan accent is *chef's kiss*...at least most of the time.

I found out that I had an accent when some New York chicks said "those guys talk funny".
Oh well, like I'd take speech lessons from people that remember there's an 'r' in the alphabet half the time.

[Anglo-Celtic]

An Ohioan? Well in terms of neutrality the average Ohioan accent is *chef's kiss*...at least most of the time.

Oh well, like I'd take speech lessons from people that remember there's an 'r' in the alphabet half the time.

I thought that our accent was neutral on the base line. Evidently, we sound like Amish farmers to people from New Yawk.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Ancestry does have a whitepaper on their Communities, if anyone has spare time to have a look. Explains a lot.

https://www.ancestry.com/cs/dna-help/communities/whitepaper?_gl=1*1teopjq*_ga*NjExODM3Nzg3LjE2NjE3O DUxNzQ.*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY2MjI3ODM4Ni4xNC4xLjE2NjI yNzkwNjcuMC4wLjA.

I still wonder why Daco got those communities. I also wonder why Ancestry separates "British" from "Scots-Irish", unless the former describes just English and Welsh.

[Daco Celtic]

I still wonder why Daco got those communities. I also wonder why Ancestry separates "British" from "Scots-Irish", unless the former describes just English and Welsh.

When are these Mormons at AncestryDNA going to give me my Southie Boston Good Will Hunting genetic community?

[Anglo-Celtic]

When are these Mormons at AncestryDNA going to give me my Southie Boston Good Will Hunting genetic community?

I hear you. I blame the Italians for encroaching on your genetic neighborhood. Don't worry about it. If it's any consolation, Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are less Native Irish than your Blue Ridge kin folk.

[billErobreren]

When are these Mormons at AncestryDNA going to give me my Southie Boston Good Will Hunting genetic community?
Ouch, baby, very ouch. Middle America snubbed in favor of people from Bwoston.

I hear you. I blame the Italians for encroaching on your genetic neighborhood. Don't worry about it. If it's any consolation, Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are less Native Irish than your Blue Ridge kin folk.
Matt Damon and Mark Wahlberg are Amerimutt incarnate.
Also add Portuguese, French Canadian and tons of Latin American input, seldom meet Massholes, that are a single or half something.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Ouch, baby, very ouch. Middle America snubbed in favor of people from Bwoston.

Matt Damon and Mark Wahlberg are Amerimutt incarnate.
Also add Portuguese, French Canadian and tons of Latin American input, seldom meet Massholes, that are a single or half something.

You're onto something because the Blue Ridge settler community was a mixture of Briton and Gaelic to a great extent. They're bi-Celtic, and they weren't mixed with wogs like Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. Now, we have to solve the Vlach mystery. We may have to call the Mormons for this one.