Albanian DNA compared to Illyrian

[Rizza]

Added myself on G25 to compare the distance to some Illyrian samples from Bronze Age / Iron Age Balkans and where I land compared to modern populations. I did not add Albanian regions, only used the average on G25 that was already there.

Some of the results I got for some samples.


Iron Age - Northern Eastern Albania, Kukes:


Distance to: Iron Age - Northern Albania:I16251
0.02886532 Italian_Piedmont
0.02899049 Rizza-Albanian
0.02909987 Italian_Tuscany
0.02974394 Swiss_Italian
0.03237354 Italian_Bergamo
0.03361312 Italian_Umbria
0.03383140 Albanian
0.03386512 French_Corsica
0.03400007 Greek_Thessaly
0.03427858 Italian_Veneto
0.03503797 Italian_Marche
0.03591488 Italian_Lazio
0.03608747 Italian_Lombardy
0.03822531 Greek_Messenia
0.03823370 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03851080 Greek_Argolis
0.03851238 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03879957 Greek_Elis
0.03884742 Greek_Corinthia
0.03902879 Greek_Achaea
0.03909643 Italian_Molise
0.03928429 Greek_Macedonia
0.03969570 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03974908 Rumelia_East
0.03990751 Greek_Arcadia


Distance to: Iron Age - Northern Albania:I14690
0.02229399 Italian_Veneto
0.02298098 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02568326 Rizza-Albanian
0.02688542 Italian_Northeast
0.02729830 Italian_Piedmont
0.02735221 Italian_Bergamo
0.02918632 Swiss_Italian
0.02950115 Italian_Lombardy
0.03042430 French_Provence
0.03162317 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03252671 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03322520 Italian_Liguria
0.03336647 Italian_Tuscany
0.03380439 Spanish_Baleares
0.03554151 Greek_Thessaly
0.03642084 Spanish_Menorca
0.03660594 Swiss_French
0.03707628 French_Corsica
0.03734035 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03751074 Spanish_Penedes
0.03775267 Albanian
0.03781488 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03820341 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03828219 Spanish_Girona
0.03939372 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona



Distance to: Iron Age - Northern Albania:I16256
0.04250106 Swiss_Italian
0.04380569 Italian_Veneto
0.04595426 Rizza-Albanian
0.04618701 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04710777 Italian_Tuscany
0.04723999 Italian_Piedmont
0.04746880 Italian_Northeast
0.04873892 French_Provence
0.04875999 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04920106 Italian_Bergamo
0.04957710 Swiss_French
0.05065795 Rumelia_East
0.05092262 Spanish_Baleares
0.05096698 French_Corsica
0.05104265 Albanian
0.05144038 Spanish_Mallorca
0.05153682 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.05201386 Italian_Umbria
0.05346355 Spanish_Girona
0.05415521 Spanish_Penedes
0.05467043 Greek_Thessaly
0.05554777 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.05576071 Spanish_Eivissa
0.05596945 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.05609706 Greek_Achaea


Montenegro Late Bronze Age


Distance to: MNE_LBA:I13171
0.03260276 Italian_Veneto
0.03360095 Swiss_Italian
0.03582885 Rizza-Albanian
0.03596949 Italian_Northeast
0.03601807 Italian_Piedmont
0.03769458 Italian_Tuscany
0.03774172 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03807908 Italian_Bergamo
0.03832913 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03877895 French_Provence
0.04189645 Albanian
0.04228995 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04279357 French_Corsica
0.04288957 Italian_Umbria
0.04300715 Greek_Thessaly
0.04337964 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04353466 Rumelia_East
0.04354472 Swiss_French
0.04357871 Spanish_Baleares
0.04426565 Italian_Lombardy
0.04588660 Spanish_Girona
0.04704347 Bulgarian
0.04751133 Spanish_Penedes
0.04762083 Romanian
0.04762858 Greek_Corinthia


Distance to: MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03012028 Italian_Piedmont
0.03075129 Italian_Bergamo
0.03160958 Italian_Veneto
0.03190018 Rizza-Albanian
0.03261827 Swiss_Italian
0.03294106 Italian_Lombardy
0.03318292 French_Corsica
0.03410027 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03415580 Italian_Tuscany
0.03849621 Italian_Northeast
0.03853152 Greek_Thessaly
0.03912135 Albanian
0.04023065 Italian_Umbria
0.04100349 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04153309 Italian_Marche
0.04183843 Italian_Liguria
0.04194618 Spanish_Baleares
0.04324365 Spanish_Menorca
0.04339335 Italian_Lazio
0.04364342 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04366565 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04384083 Greek_Achaea
0.04409627 Greek_Macedonia
0.04409844 French_Provence
0.04429044 Greek_Argolis


Distance to: MNE_LBA:I13777
0.02449355 Italian_Veneto
0.02607696 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02632117 Italian_Bergamo
0.02669990 Italian_Piedmont
0.02764658 Rizza-Albanian
0.02842954 Italian_Northeast
0.02925896 Italian_Lombardy
0.03097950 Swiss_Italian
0.03474790 French_Provence
0.03487451 Italian_Tuscany
0.03585316 French_Corsica
0.03640546 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03734321 Albanian
0.03739998 Greek_Thessaly
0.03778973 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03848245 Spanish_Baleares
0.03861232 Italian_Liguria
0.03963314 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04005707 Spanish_Menorca
0.04034475 Spanish_Girona
0.04054978 Swiss_French
0.04079553 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04085025 Spanish_Penedes
0.04097833 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04098103 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona



Distance to: MNE_LBA:I14501
0.03161055 Italian_Veneto
0.03190947 Italian_Bergamo
0.03229070 Italian_Northeast
0.03361511 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03487284 Italian_Piedmont
0.03586333 Rizza-Albanian
0.03639368 Italian_Lombardy
0.03759758 Swiss_Italian
0.03838491 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03878365 French_Provence
0.04122640 Spanish_Baleares
0.04128342 Italian_Tuscany
0.04160542 Albanian
0.04217976 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04272454 Greek_Thessaly
0.04392188 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04431389 Italian_Liguria
0.04433564 French_Corsica
0.04484171 Romanian
0.04533487 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04537399 Spanish_Girona
0.04538862 Macedonian
0.04587473 Swiss_French
0.04616364 Bulgarian
0.04653747 Greek_Macedonia


Distance to: MNE_LBA:I13775
0.02611575 Italian_Piedmont
0.02646305 Italian_Tuscany
0.02848788 Italian_Bergamo
0.02850745 Italian_Veneto
0.02872157 Swiss_Italian
0.02908170 Rizza-Albanian
0.03123827 French_Corsica
0.03176347 Italian_Lombardy
0.03213769 Greek_Thessaly
0.03235414 Albanian
0.03295760 Italian_Umbria
0.03370390 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03583719 Italian_Marche
0.03607448 Italian_Northeast
0.03616890 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03736566 Italian_Liguria
0.03824652 Greek_Corinthia
0.03880003 Greek_Achaea
0.03887722 Greek_Messenia
0.03921606 Greek_Macedonia
0.03938475 Greek_Argolis
0.03955877 Greek_Elis
0.03964312 Rumelia_East
0.03972633 Italian_Lazio
0.04020759 French_Provence


Ancient North Macedonia:

Distance to: MKD_Anc:I10384
0.02658953 Italian_Bergamo
0.02665376 Italian_Piedmont
0.02815774 Italian_Veneto
0.02985509 Rizza-Albanian
0.03148072 Italian_Tuscany
0.03157290 Italian_Lombardy
0.03218130 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03292240 French_Corsica
0.03316853 Swiss_Italian
0.03421080 Italian_Northeast
0.03444026 Greek_Thessaly
0.03514658 Albanian
0.03784334 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03834536 Italian_Umbria
0.03928137 Italian_Marche
0.03992330 Italian_Liguria
0.03995066 Greek_Macedonia
0.04082123 Greek_Argolis
0.04119792 Greek_Achaea
0.04125513 Greek_Corinthia
0.04129795 Greek_Messenia
0.04135082 Rumelia_East
0.04147666 Spanish_Baleares
0.04180434 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04183318 Greek_West_Taygetos

Distance to: MKD_Anc:I10389
0.04709908 Rizza-Albanian
0.04745656 Italian_Piedmont
0.04809295 Italian_Tuscany
0.04818107 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04856200 Swiss_Italian
0.04872703 Greek_Thessaly
0.04898412 Albanian
0.04912564 Rumelia_East
0.05038597 Italian_Veneto
0.05127098 Italian_Northeast
0.05157052 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.05161412 Greek_Achaea
0.05166016 Italian_Umbria
0.05189140 Greek_Messenia
0.05228388 Greek_Peloponnese
0.05231602 Greek_Corinthia
0.05256279 Greek_Macedonia
0.05267852 Greek_Argolis
0.05278330 Italian_Marche
0.05280151 Greek_Elis
0.05368706 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.05393789 Italian_Bergamo
0.05449454 Italian_Molise
0.05459664 Greek_Arcadia
0.05516763 Greek_East_Taygetos

Distance to: MKD_BA:I7231
0.02836361 Greek_Argolis
0.02912992 Greek_Thessaly
0.02915145 Greek_Corinthia
0.02956342 Italian_Tuscany
0.02973376 Albanian
0.03024217 Rizza-Albanian
0.03084134 Greek_Messenia
0.03092533 Greek_Achaea
0.03107164 Italian_Umbria
0.03123886 Greek_Arcadia
0.03151459 Italian_Piedmont
0.03168302 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03221895 Italian_Marche
0.03267648 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03268571 French_Corsica
0.03271945 Greek_Elis
0.03350113 Greek_Macedonia
0.03371585 Italian_Lazio
0.03434852 Greek_Laconia
0.03446863 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.03488615 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.03590364 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.03635727 Italian_Molise
0.03674653 Swiss_Italian
0.03676741 Rumelia_East


Distance to: MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03102428 Italian_Lombardy
0.03106331 Italian_Piedmont
0.03257604 Greek_Thessaly
0.03300178 Rizza-Albanian
0.03430976 Italian_Bergamo
0.03549007 Italian_Veneto
0.03595775 Italian_Tuscany
0.03600791 Italian_Liguria
0.03727804 Swiss_Italian
0.03776125 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03849047 Italian_Northeast
0.03858952 Greek_Macedonia
0.03989705 Italian_Marche
0.04017362 Albanian
0.04160616 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04163438 Italian_Umbria
0.04205643 Greek_Messenia
0.04253944 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.04331460 Rumelia_East
0.04362611 Greek_Argolis
0.04366178 French_Corsica
0.04376527 French_Provence
0.04400134 Gagauz
0.04416433 Greek_Arcadia
0.04536014 Greek_Achaea



Croatia Bronze Age and Iron Age:


Distance to: Croatia_BronzeAge:I18748
0.02324079 Italian_Piedmont
0.02587499 Rizza-Albanian
0.02634209 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02642947 Italian_Veneto
0.02679206 Italian_Lombardy
0.02699814 Swiss_Italian
0.02748499 Italian_Bergamo
0.02750956 Italian_Tuscany
0.03077657 Italian_Liguria
0.03100100 Albanian
0.03155971 Italian_Northeast
0.03164456 Greek_Thessaly
0.03182944 French_Corsica
0.03552398 Italian_Umbria
0.03614520 Italian_Marche
0.03629378 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03700712 French_Provence
0.03781431 Spanish_Baleares
0.03798619 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03800470 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03828434 Greek_Macedonia
0.03840298 Spanish_Menorca
0.03892222 Greek_Messenia
0.03952989 Greek_Argolis
0.03969729 Rumelia_East



Distance to: Croatia_Cetina_BronzeAge:I11843
0.02619178 Albanian
0.02677144 Rizza-Albanian
0.02911937 Italian_Piedmont
0.03034761 Italian_Tuscany
0.03061987 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03085234 Greek_Thessaly
0.03190831 Swiss_Italian
0.03234009 Greek_Argolis
0.03288749 Italian_Veneto
0.03316932 Rumelia_East
0.03321123 Greek_Macedonia
0.03339105 Greek_Corinthia
0.03353053 Italian_Bergamo
0.03360976 Greek_Arcadia
0.03368977 Greek_Messenia
0.03421736 Greek_Achaea
0.03480553 Greek_Elis
0.03540049 French_Corsica
0.03542669 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.03555502 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03570269 Italian_Umbria
0.03670413 Italian_Marche
0.03685167 Italian_Lombardy
0.03727836 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03735147 Italian_Northeast


Distance to: HRV_EIA:I23904
0.02502255 Italian_Veneto
0.02670273 Swiss_Italian
0.02680831 Italian_Bergamo
0.02734474 Italian_Piedmont
0.02818026 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02986283 Rizza-Albanian
0.03034878 Italian_Northeast
0.03054387 Italian_Lombardy
0.03267342 Italian_Tuscany
0.03382955 Italian_Liguria
0.03404416 Albanian
0.03437561 French_Provence
0.03445712 Spanish_Baleares
0.03448954 French_Corsica
0.03477322 Greek_Thessaly
0.03565770 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03711959 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03715601 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03910690 Spanish_Girona
0.03913202 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03921985 Italian_Umbria
0.03928261 Spanish_Menorca
0.03967775 Greek_Macedonia
0.04063756 Rumelia_East
0.04107373 Spanish_Penedes



Distance to: HRV_Cetina_BA:I18746
0.02536241 Italian_Veneto
0.02601193 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02638392 Italian_Northeast
0.02687862 Italian_Bergamo
0.02746472 Italian_Piedmont
0.02834579 Rizza-Albanian
0.02854889 Swiss_Italian
0.03027487 Italian_Lombardy
0.03331844 Italian_Liguria
0.03337391 French_Provence
0.03379873 Italian_Tuscany
0.03438593 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03529296 Albanian
0.03571370 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03610133 Greek_Thessaly
0.03716510 Spanish_Baleares
0.03844930 Swiss_French
0.03849351 French_Corsica
0.03897162 Spanish_Menorca
0.03939437 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03972230 Bulgarian
0.03989301 Romanian
0.04028343 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04050747 Spanish_Girona
0.04057025 Spanish_Penedes


Distance to: HRV_IA:I3313
0.02400696 Italian_Lombardy
0.02684022 Italian_Bergamo
0.03098048 Italian_Piedmont
0.03132283 Italian_Veneto
0.03232243 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03503135 Italian_Liguria
0.03518854 Rizza-Albanian
0.03523518 Swiss_Italian
0.03570296 French_Corsica
0.03623112 Italian_Tuscany
0.03842617 Greek_Thessaly
0.03893473 Italian_Northeast
0.04186317 Italian_Marche
0.04203788 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04216678 Spanish_Baleares
0.04240815 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04248741 Spanish_Menorca
0.04263746 French_Provence
0.04294519 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04303196 Albanian
0.04368641 Italian_Umbria
0.04378507 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04442382 Greek_Macedonia
0.04596885 Spanish_Girona
0.04608396 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona


Distance to: HRV_EIA:I23995
0.02057799 Italian_Veneto
0.02180827 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02479018 Italian_Bergamo
0.02520178 Italian_Northeast
0.02716413 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02728252 Italian_Piedmont
0.02797014 French_Provence
0.02861277 Swiss_Italian
0.02864584 Rizza-Albanian
0.02956037 Italian_Lombardy
0.02978783 Spanish_Menorca
0.03035981 Italian_Liguria
0.03070586 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03076821 Spanish_Baleares
0.03150938 Spanish_Penedes
0.03234080 Spanish_Girona
0.03291547 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03321852 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03340207 French_Corsica
0.03347704 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03369814 Swiss_French
0.03374760 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03408023 Italian_Tuscany
0.03444688 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03498314 Spanish_Lleida


Distance to: HRV_MBA:I26726
0.03032101 Italian_Lombardy
0.03455062 Italian_Liguria
0.03509354 Italian_Bergamo
0.03822144 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03836912 Italian_Piedmont
0.04036502 Italian_Veneto
0.04230876 Swiss_Italian
0.04279291 Rizza-Albanian
0.04292784 Italian_Tuscany
0.04367313 Greek_Thessaly
0.04437494 French_Corsica
0.04455291 Spanish_Menorca
0.04506685 Italian_Northeast
0.04565676 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04568655 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04610054 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04639721 Spanish_Baleares
0.04748152 French_Provence
0.04785711 Italian_Marche
0.04816998 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.04866386 Albanian
0.04952244 Spanish_Penedes
0.04984292 Spanish_Girona
0.04994804 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04994858 Italian_Aosta_Valley


Distance to: HRV_MBA:I4331
0.02539935 Italian_Bergamo
0.02560971 Italian_Veneto
0.02887989 Italian_Piedmont
0.02890577 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03111868 Swiss_Italian
0.03115836 Italian_Lombardy
0.03126226 French_Corsica
0.03165181 Italian_Northeast
0.03179557 Rizza-Albanian
0.03285568 Italian_Tuscany
0.03553460 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03593923 Spanish_Baleares
0.03612126 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03707555 French_Provence
0.03905671 Spanish_Girona
0.03917617 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03931444 Spanish_Menorca
0.03967950 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03973659 Greek_Thessaly
0.03974545 Albanian
0.03986362 Spanish_Penedes
0.04093917 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04119702 Swiss_French
0.04120040 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04156555 Italian_Umbria

[Rizza]

Distance to ancient samples:

Distance to: Rizza
0.02568326 North-Albania-Ancient-Illyrian:I14690
0.02587499 Croatia_BronzeAge-Illyrian:I18748
0.02677144 Croatia_BA-Illyrian:I11843
0.02764658 Montenegro_LateBronzeAge-Illyrian:I13777
0.02834579 Croatia_Cetina_BA-Illyrian:I18746
0.02864584 Croatia_EarlyIronAge-Illyrian:I23995
0.02899049 ALB_Cinamak_Anc-Illyrian:I16251
0.02908170 MNE_LBA-Illyrian:I13775
0.02932255 GREECE_Logkas_MiddleBronzeAge:Log02
0.02951690 MONTENEGRO_LateBronzeAge:I13168
0.02985509 Macedonian_Ancient:I10384
0.02986283 Croatia_EarlyIronAge:I23904
0.03010667 Serbia-Vojvodina_Mokrin_EarlyBronzeAge:MOK17A
0.03024217 Macedonia_BronzeAge:I7231
0.03104714 MNE_LBA:I13167
0.03165586 HRV_EIA:I26742
0.03190018 MNE_LBA:I13169
0.03197951 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros:I23205
0.03213899 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18747
0.03275880 HRV_BA:I5080
0.03300178 MKD_Anc:I10385
0.03305005 MNE_LBA:I13172
0.03322855 HRV_BA:I18712
0.03324344 HRV_BA:I5074
0.03325913 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log04

[Rizza]

Closest Illyrian samples to Albanians are basically found in Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia. I figured this out when I ran different Albanian regions on G25 .

[Jingle Bell]

Interesting, can u pass the g25 samples of illyrians?

[Firenna]

So what populations moved to present day Albania to shift Illyrians from North Italian-like to actual Albanians?

[Rizza]

So what populations moved to present day Albania to shift Illyrians from North Italian-like to actual Albanians?

None. Many of these samples in Northern Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro cluster like Albanian regions or close and overlap with North Italians, Greeks etc that's why my name appears so close to some of these samples there what else do you think...

Here is when I added some Albanian regions to some of these Illyrians in Northern Albania

Distance to: ALB_cinamak_Anc_I16251
1.07484410 Albanians_Montenegro
1.07831303 Albanian_Kosovo
1.14188940 Albanian_north
1.14271966 GR_Thesalloniki
1.17530993 Albanian_south
1.20025960 IT_Friuli
1.22644462 GR_Thrace
1.24474885 IT_Marche
1.26894943 GR_Central
1.27190658 GR_Macedonia

Distance to: ALB_cinamak_Anc_1d.rel.I16256_I17633
2.17016013 Albanian_Kosovo
2.17512344 IT_Ladinia
2.18195216 Albanians_Montenegro
2.18261172 IT_Veneto
2.20123659 IT_Trentino
2.20877324 IT_Piedmont
2.24590834 Moldova_sud
2.24797207 Albanian_north
2.26309665 IT_Friuli
2.28406401 Tirol

Distance to: ALB_MBA:I8471
0.04696172 Albanian_Mirditë
0.04791923 Italian_Tuscany
0.04792832 Swiss_Italian
0.04809151 Italian_Piedmont
0.04840223 French_Corsica
0.04909330 Italian_Veneto
0.05010355 Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë
0.05051373 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.05101654 Italian_Bergamo
0.05131666 Albanian_Northwestern_Albania
0.05144378 Albanian_Pukë
0.05148225 Albanian_Central_Albania
0.05176896 Italian_Umbria
0.05203126 Albanian_Montenegro
0.05213647 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.05267451 Albanian_Labëria
0.05271834 Albanian_Kosovo
0.05273225 Albanian_Dibra
0.05300211 French_Provence
0.05317641 Albanian_Himarë
0.05326896 Italian_Northeast
0.05355394 Spanish_Baleares
0.05381182 Spanish_Mallorca
0.05426558 Albanian_Korçë
0.05451782 Italian_Lombardy


Distance to: ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
0.02702153 Albanian_Mirditë
0.02886532 Italian_Piedmont
0.02909987 Italian_Tuscany
0.02918718 Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë
0.02952803 Albanian_Northwestern_Albania
0.02974394 Swiss_Italian
0.03092626 Albanian_Labëria
0.03100157 Albanian_Himarë
0.03106432 Albanian_Pukë
0.03124415 Albanian_Central_Albania
0.03157371 Albanian_Kosovo
0.03237354 Italian_Bergamo
0.03244842 Albanian_Montenegro
0.03280549 Albanian_Dibra
0.03361312 Italian_Umbria
0.03361518 Albanian_Korçë
0.03386512 French_Corsica
0.03400007 Greek_Thessaly
0.03427858 Italian_Veneto
0.03503797 Italian_Marche
0.03591488 Italian_Lazio
0.03608747 Italian_Lombardy
0.03822531 Greek_Messenia
0.03823370 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03851080 Greek_Argolis



Distance to: ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
0.03040623 Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë
0.03081551 Albanian_Northwestern_Albania
0.03132625 Italian_Bergamo
0.03134221 Swiss_Italian
0.03137717 Italian_Piedmont
0.03174711 Albanian_Mirditë
0.03312290 Albanian_Montenegro
0.03344434 Albanian_Kosovo
0.03356377 Italian_Tuscany
0.03375936 Italian_Veneto
0.03379613 Greek_Thessaly
0.03406956 Albanian_Korçë
0.03439415 Albanian_Pukë
0.03477466 Albanian_Dibra
0.03490373 Italian_Lombardy
0.03513336 Albanian_Labëria
0.03537663 Albanian_Central_Albania
0.03684893 Albanian_Himarë
0.03707327 Italian_Northeast
0.03795358 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03801065 French_Corsica
0.03826424 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03886443 Italian_Umbria
0.03958920 Greek_Macedonia
0.03994990 Italian_Liguria

[Rizza]

Interesting, can u pass the g25 samples of illyrians?

I was gonna reply but the forum crashed. I will send you a PM. A lot of these samples found in the Balkans range from Greek-like, Italian-like, Albanian-like, Iberian etc to some even like French, German and Slavic.

Here are some sample in Macedonia with added Albanian regions

Distance to: MKD_Anc:I10389
0.04323490 Albanian_Mirditë
0.04644656 Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë
0.04664611 Albanian_Northwestern_Albania
0.04693223 Albanian_Montenegro
0.04731491 Albanian_Kosovo
0.04745656 Italian_Piedmont
0.04765971 Albanian_Pukë
0.04809295 Italian_Tuscany
0.04818107 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04832694 Albanian_Korçë
0.04846213 Albanian_Labëria
0.04856200 Swiss_Italian
0.04872703 Greek_Thessaly
0.04876698 Albanian_Central_Albania
0.04900799 Albanian_Dibra
0.04912564 Rumelia_East
0.05036498 Albanian_Himarë
0.05038597 Italian_Veneto
0.05127098 Italian_Northeast
0.05157052 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.05161412 Greek_Achaea
0.05166016 Italian_Umbria
0.05189140 Greek_Messenia
0.05228388 Greek_Peloponnese
0.05231602 Greek_Corinthia

[MandM]

This maby is a stupid question, but todays Albanians have to some degree slavic Admixture, some more some less, how is it that the illyrian samples you put here are so close to modern Albanians? Does this mean that illyrians also hade some slavic Admixture? Does this mean slavic people have been longer in the Balkans then what they think, or is there a nother population that resembels the slavic that illyrians mixed with so it seems that the get close results to todays Albanians, is so what population could it be, even the Greeks have to some degree slavic mix, and illyrians tou show here are not far from them to, this is not trolling, just want to learn

[Jingle Bell]

Oh ok, ty! ;)

[Jingle Bell]

Yeah thats strange, i guess Illyrians were naturally more North Shifted, and after they mix with South shifted populations (I guess were greeks, italians etc. . .) And this mix creates a pre-slavic albanian, so when the slavs comes to balkans they mixed with these ancient albanians and north shifted they again like the ancient Illyrians were, its pretty obvious the Albanians are majority Illyrian/Thracian but its hard to know what is made the rest of this mix

I am not expert with Balkanic history so i can sound like i am saying shit, but i hope this helped someone at least

[Rizza]

Interesting, can u pass the g25 samples of illyrians?

You can get some of the ancient samples here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UrhcfNMLW0oMXIbHGUE60v2taCM7PFw1/view

But I don't think they are all, there are actually more found by Lazaridis. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4247 , I remember I found somewhere where you can download them.

Sample found in North Macedonia, Skopje

Distance to: Macedonia_Skopje_Ancient:I10379
0.03365761 Albanian_Mirditë
0.03527261 Albanian_Dibra
0.04046868 Albanian_Central_Albania
0.04073105 Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë
0.04160794 Greek_Corinthia
0.04208779 Albanian_Northwestern_Albania
0.04209242 Italian_Umbria
0.04277610 Albanian_Pukë
0.04293715 Italian_Tuscany
0.04298120 Albanian_Labëria
0.04331876 Albanian
0.04350651 French_Corsica
0.04363562 Greek_Achaea
0.04369252 Albanian_Himarë
0.04369641 Albanian_Korçë
0.04382363 Greek_Argolis
0.04386072 Albanian_Montenegro
0.04386976 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04493589 Greek_Peloponnese
0.04494455 Italian_Piedmont
0.04496595 Albanian_Kosovo
0.04555885 Greek_Elis
0.04563472 Swiss_Italian
0.04573326 Greek_Thessaly
0.04627453 Rumelia_East



I did not use Slavic Macedonian regions in this as even they form different regional clusters and cluster with some of these samples together with Albanians I believe .

[Rizza]

So what populations moved to present day Albania to shift Illyrians from North Italian-like to actual Albanians?

I just added a lot of these samples on a PCA Map together with Samples from Macedonia. In one map they cluster with Albanians, in another those samples from Northern Albania together with some medieval samples in Albania are more West with Italians, Northern Italians and Central Italians and many modern Albanians are on average more North-East, and cluster just East to some Northern Italians, compared to medieval samples from Albania and few of these who are bit more west. One Ancient sample from Macedonia however clusters right next to me and another Cetina sample from Croatia clusters just south of me. This sample from Macedonia, is the closest thing I have seen to me genetically speaking. This is if PCA Maps are even to be trusted . It's an Illyrian as it was found in Ohrid which was an Illyrian town. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrid

There is also one Bronze Age sample from Macedonia that clusters with some Post Medieval sample from Albania. And another Ancient sample from Macedonia that clusters with some post medieval sample from Albania and some medieval Albanians. This sample from Macedonia I believe is from Skopje which was the capital of Dardanians.

I also added those Thracians and they score like 70% Neolithic and are very south and nothing like modern Albanians. There is one sample in North Macedonia that are like these Thracians, the rest are more like Illyrians and modern Albanians and medieval samples from Albania. Except for Slavs I don't know of any population that has moved there. Except for an East shift, to me the change does not seem that huge. Most Ancient samples found in the Balkans in general are more west. In Southern Balkans they are on average more South-West . Of course it depends on how you view the PCA Maps, on other PCA Maps , most of these samples more or less cluster like Albanians actually or right next. So it depends on the PCA Map you use. With Albanians, there is in general genetic relatedness to Italians and Greeks. It is possible Slavs had a genetic impact but IBD sharing does not indicate this.

However, when we look at the components of these samples, they seem to score more or less the same components as moderns.

I haven't tried to add samples from Montenegro. Samples from Romania are all like Spanish .

[Rizza]

For example here, on this PCA Map I added, average Albanian Kosovo clusters right next to that Ancient Sample from Macedonia and Northern Albania

https://i.postimg.cc/0r1j7H5h/Bilde-2022-09-24-140250394.png


I don't know how much PCA Maps are to be trusted or calculators. When I added different Albanian regions, a lot of these samples get that first. When I don't they mostly get Italian.