Are Georgians white (or maybe even considered european)?

[Eurafricanid]

I know you've already talked about Armenians before, but what about their northern neighbors, the Georgians, are they considered white or European? Is this a question at all? What do you guys think about it?


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116381

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116382

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116383

[TheForeigner]

Yes Georgians, Armenians and other Caucasians(native Caucasus peoples) are white, but not European.

[Mortimer]

Yes Georgians, Armenians and other Caucasians(native Caucasus peoples) are white, but not European.

I have a question where the ottomans in colonial times and times of european empires considered white? I have a feeling they were and that they could migrate and be equal citizens of countries like the USA Australia and Southafrica when non whites could not do that? Now it seems that turks are not considered white anymore by the new white nationalists

[TheForeigner]

I have a question where the ottomans in colonial times and times of european empires considered white? I have a feeling they were and that they could migrate and be equal citizens of countries like the USA Australia and Southafrica when non whites could not do that? Now it seems that turks are not considered white anymore by the new white nationalists

Yes they were considered white from what I read in old books and other old written material in English. For instance late 19th and early 20th century Liberal British historian and statesman wrote in some article about the different races that Turks are white and in a book about Russia and Ottoman Empire mostly descendants of assimilated Byzantine natives of Asia Minor and Thrace. The objection to Turks by Europeans was traditionally because of their Muslim religion. I don't think many Turks emigrated to the American colonies though. Some did emigrate later in the late 19th and early 20th century and I think they were considered white socially and certainly legally, like in the census or for racial segregation purposes since in some states even East Asians or Amerindians were barred from marrying whites. I once read a book about American demographics and history by Nordicist Lothrop Stoddard and he wrote that US census classes Turks and Arabs(mostly Levantine I think) as white and he did not object to it.

[Beowulf]

i think they are white

[sean]

Nope.

https://i.imgur.com/dAmEGp6.jpg
https://imgur.com/p43ARCQ.gif

[Tooting Carmen]

Georgians, Armenians and other Kavkazians are what I would call "borderline Whites", and show that the difference between European and non-European Caucasoids is often a lot blurrier than ideologues would like to believe.

[Tooting Carmen]

chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnIKaivYdKc

[placebo]

genetically they’re not.

[JamesBond007]

Georgians, Armenians and other Kavkazians are what I would call "borderline Whites", and show that the difference between European and non-European Caucasoids is often a lot blurrier than ideologues would like to believe.

So, that they are 'borderline whites' automagically raises the subsharan nigger IQ level to Western standards and lowers the subsaharan nigger crime rate ? The whole concept of 'white' is meant to contrast with savage negro beasts. If niggers did not exist I doubt the concept of 'white' would.

[placebo]

turks are not white and georgians in turkey doesn’t look lighter or “different race” than the others.

[vader]

genetically they’re not.

Genetically they are in the middle of west asian and European and form their own cluster. I'd consider them white... They are mostly chg which is a component that made steppe.

[Cristiano viejo]

Many maaany Georgians look white.

Here in Spain the average people know little or directly nothing about Georgia. 99´9% of Spaniards would be unable to locate Georgia in a map (me included), let alone knowing something about that country or its peoples. If anything, people would say it is in Asia or Russia and already, so I dont think my average countryman would consider them as European.

[Jana]

They look white but they are not European at all, completely distinct people and it's confirmed by genetics.

[Italicus]

It's complicated. Georgians often can look quite Balkan/Hellenic/Italian, but they don't cluster with other Europeans. Then again, Sardinians don't either. Then again, Georgian culture can be quite similar to other European countries. So I'm tempted to say yes, but I don't know.

[Marshall Theodore]

Yes Georgians, Armenians and other Caucasians(native Caucasus peoples) are white, but not European.

They are not

[Marshall Theodore]

Genetically they are in the middle of west asian and European and form their own cluster. I'd consider them white... They are mostly chg which is a component that made steppe.

Therefore they are not white

[Marshall Theodore]

What a bunch of nonsense on this thread, it seems that only Sean and Placebo knows the right answer...

[Jana]

It's complicated. Georgians often can look quite Balkan/Hellenic/Italian, but they don't cluster with other Europeans. Then again, Sardinians don't either. Then again, Georgian culture can be quite similar to other European countries. So I'm tempted to say yes, but I don't know.

Sardinians are by far genetically closest to other Europeans, they are fully European genetically, just isolates.
Georgians are northwest West Asians, closer to Turks and Iranians than to any Europeans.

Georgia isn't even geographically European. It's not comparable.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

One man's White is another man's non-White. The term has no value.

[Tooting Carmen]

One man's White is another man's non-White. The term has no value.

There's definitely a distinctive Caucasoid race, but whether there is a White race is a lot more subjective.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

There's definitely a distinctive Caucasoid race, but whether there is a White race is a lot more subjective.

I prefer the term Caucasoid because there is an objective standard. The skull of a deal Georgian isn't going to be confused for that of a Negroid, etc.

objective standard > subjective standard

[Fortnite777]

Georgians are white in my opinion. Chechens and the like are even moreso but are dumb as bricks.

The reason I think Georgians are white is because I consider CHG a component connected to Europeans. CHG are closest to Caucasus peoples, but are closer to modern Northern Europeans than they are to MENA/SA people. They also have a very white phenotype which old school anthropologists deemed pleasant. However, I am wary of any culture which is muslim. Islam is seemingly a hotbed of dysgenics wherever it goes.

[placebo]

Genetically they are in the middle of west asian and European and form their own cluster. I'd consider them white... They are mostly chg which is a component that made steppe.

actually georgians are the one of the most west asian shifted ethnicity.

[Marshall Theodore]

Georgians are white in my opinion. Chechens and the like are even moreso but are dumb as bricks.

The reason I think Georgians are white is because I consider CHG a component connected to Europeans. CHG are closest to Caucasus peoples, but are closer to modern Northern Europeans than they are to MENA/SA people. They also have a very white phenotype which old school anthropologists deemed pleasant. However, I am wary of any culture which is muslim. Islam is seemingly a hotbed of dysgenics wherever it goes.

Are you sure about that?


Distance to: GEO_CHG
0.15514676 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.16964420 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.16985357 Iranian_Fars
0.17260680 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.17351527 Iranian_Lor
0.17520045 Turkish_East
0.17604027 Iranian_Bandari
0.19092044 Turkish_Kayseri
0.19460313 Turkish_North
0.20341577 Turkish_Northwest
0.20570995 Iranian_Jew
0.21131952 Iraqi
0.27945953 Norwegian
0.28087955 Russian_Smolensk
0.29309621 Finnish_North


With Gedmatch

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 55.77
2 East_Med 22.14
3 West_Med 12.23
4 Baltic 4.84
5 East_Asian 1.70
6 North_Atlantic 1.54
7 South_Asian 1.39

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Abhkasian @ 3.674193
2 Georgian @ 5.907027
3 Ossetian @ 13.877807
4 Adygei @ 14.458330
5 North_Ossetian @ 15.089102
6 Balkar @ 16.444563
7 Kabardin @ 18.690607
8 Kumyk @ 18.972198
9 Kurdish @ 20.477928
10 Chechen @ 20.565985
11 Lezgin @ 21.414471
12 Armenian @ 22.289671
13 Iranian @ 24.029566
14 Azeri @ 24.426241
15 Tabassaran @ 24.505100
16 Georgian_Jewish @ 25.853485
17 Turkish @ 27.409996
18 Turkmen @ 29.907368
19 Assyrian @ 30.306126
20 Makrani @ 32.421654

No european appears

[placebo]

Genetically they are in the middle of west asian and European and form their own cluster. I'd consider them white... They are mostly chg which is a component that made steppe.

western turks and northern caucasians more fit this definition

[Jana]

One man's White is another man's non-White. The term has no value.

that's because whitness is depending on how you look. A quardoon/octoroon or castizo will be socially treated as white if they look the part and their non white admix isn't visible.
same for any white looking Caucasian or MENA.

just like some native Europeans don't look white but exotic.

That's why European is way better term. Everyone knows what that includes.

[Jana]

western turks and northern caucasians more fit this definition

north Caucasians are still way closer to other West Asians than to any Euros. Unless you mean PIE/steppic admix which they have unlike Georgians.
But that's not specifically European thing (WHG admix is) since it's widespread all over central/south Asia and partially MENA, even if it peaks in Europeans and is main part of their genetic make up.

[Mortimer]

Yes they were considered white from what I read in old books and other old written material in English. For instance late 19th and early 20th century Liberal British historian and statesman wrote in some article about the different races that Turks are white and in a book about Russia and Ottoman Empire mostly descendants of assimilated Byzantine natives of Asia Minor and Thrace. The objection to Turks by Europeans was traditionally because of their Muslim religion. I don't think many Turks emigrated to the American colonies though. Some did emigrate later in the late 19th and early 20th century and I think they were considered white socially and certainly legally, like in the census or for racial segregation purposes since in some states even East Asians or Amerindians were barred from marrying whites. I once read a book about American demographics and history by Nordicist Lothrop Stoddard and he wrote that US census classes Turks and Arabs(mostly Levantine I think) as white and he did not object to it.

I think Gypsies were part of the "European" immigration to the USA since always, but I think they were not fully equal they lived in tents or something or in caravans, and roamed around, and there are anti-gypsy laws i think. Do you know anything about that? Also I think maybe some Gypsies could live normal but they had to go under their nationality, like if they are from Serbia they are "Serbian" but they could not be Gypsies?

[TheForeigner]

I think Gypsies were part of the "European" immigration to the USA since always, but I think they were not fully equal they lived in tents or something or in caravans, and roamed around, and there are anti-gypsy laws i think. Do you know anything about that? Also I think maybe some Gypsies could live normal but they had to go under their nationality, like if they are from Serbia they are "Serbian" but they could not be Gypsies?

Yes, according to Carleton Coon for instance there were both British and Balkan gypsies in early 20th century and for sure much earlier. I don't think there were anti-gypsy laws, but I remember I read on wiki and posted here a quote from some Congressman in late 19th century who in Congress was warning his fellow Congressmen and Americans about gypsy crime and misbehavior (or of some gypsies I suppose). I also doubt anyone made the gypsies in America go about in caravans and live in tents. They did that themselves because that is what they did for generations in Europe. They probably did prefer to say they are Serbian, British or whatever 'cause even in America they were not well liked, but there probably was only extralegal discrimination by private citizens and organizations and not by the authorities or by law. Gypsies were classed as white in census always and socially I don't know what they were considered, but they were legally white which was an advantage since they were not subject to racial segregation. But back before the 1960s or 1970s most Latin Americans mestizos and the like (not so numerous then in the US) were also legally white and not subject to racial segregation, but there was some discrimination and they were not socially white. I think Gypsies were in a similar situation: legally white, but widely seen as inferior, though I am not sure if as non-white because Americans don't know too much about gypsies or even how they typically look like or so it seems to me.

[Mortimer]

Yes, according to Carleton Coon for instance there were both British and Balkan gypsies in early 20th century and for sure much earlier. I don't think there were anti-gypsy laws, but I remember I read on wiki and posted here a quote from some Congressman in late 19th century who in Congress was warning his fellow Congressmen and Americans about gypsy crime and misbehavior (or of some gypsies I suppose). I also doubt anyone made the gypsies in America go about in caravans and live in tents. They did that themselves because that is what they did for generations in Europe. They probably did prefer to say they are Serbian, British or whatever 'cause even in America they were not well liked, but there probably was only extralegal discrimination by private citizens and organizations and not by the authorities or by law. Gypsies were classed as white in census always and socially I don't know what they were considered, but they were legally white which was an advantage since they were not subject to racial segregation. But back before the 1960s or 1970s most Latin Americans mestizos and the like (not so numerous then in the US) were also legally white and not subject to racial segregation, but there was some discrimination and they were not socially white. I think Gypsies were in a similar situation: legally white, but widely seen as inferior, though I am not sure if as non-white because Americans don't know too much about gypsies or even how they typically look like or so it seems to me.

That could be true, because the Peaky Blinders are suppossed to be Gypsies, or Irish Travellers AND Roma, they speak both Romanes and Traveller language.... But the role is played by Cilian Murphy a full Irish man, I dont know what someone who is traveller with romani ancestry would look like though.... Some English Gypsies are British/Irish with a smidge of roma-indian ancestry and they look pretty white, some look off, or a bit meddish, compared to full northern europeans....

[TheForeigner]

That could be true, because the Peaky Blinders are suppossed to be Gypsies, or Irish Travellers AND Roma, they speak both Romanes and Traveller language.... But the role is played by Cilian Murphy a full Irish man, I dont know what someone who is traveller with romani ancestry would look like though.... Some English Gypsies are British/Irish with a smidge of roma-indian ancestry and they look pretty white, some look off, or a bit meddish, compared to full northern europeans....

Americans always cast a typical looking white European/American as Gypsy in movies and tv series. They usually are fortune tellers or living in a caravan too.

[Mortimer]

Americans always cast a typical looking white European/American as Gypsy in movies and tv series. They usually are fortune tellers or living in a caravan too.

Recently there were some "reality shows" which did showed actual Gypsies in the USA. But not in movies though as actors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lnGQBWgs2c&t=32s

[vader]

Are you sure about that?


Distance to: GEO_CHG
0.15514676 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.16964420 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.16985357 Iranian_Fars
0.17260680 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.17351527 Iranian_Lor
0.17520045 Turkish_East
0.17604027 Iranian_Bandari
0.19092044 Turkish_Kayseri
0.19460313 Turkish_North
0.20341577 Turkish_Northwest
0.20570995 Iranian_Jew
0.21131952 Iraqi
0.27945953 Norwegian
0.28087955 Russian_Smolensk
0.29309621 Finnish_North


With Gedmatch

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 55.77
2 East_Med 22.14
3 West_Med 12.23
4 Baltic 4.84
5 East_Asian 1.70
6 North_Atlantic 1.54
7 South_Asian 1.39

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Abhkasian @ 3.674193
2 Georgian @ 5.907027
3 Ossetian @ 13.877807
4 Adygei @ 14.458330
5 North_Ossetian @ 15.089102
6 Balkar @ 16.444563
7 Kabardin @ 18.690607
8 Kumyk @ 18.972198
9 Kurdish @ 20.477928
10 Chechen @ 20.565985
11 Lezgin @ 21.414471
12 Armenian @ 22.289671
13 Iranian @ 24.029566
14 Azeri @ 24.426241
15 Tabassaran @ 24.505100
16 Georgian_Jewish @ 25.853485
17 Turkish @ 27.409996
18 Turkmen @ 29.907368
19 Assyrian @ 30.306126
20 Makrani @ 32.421654

No european appears

Georgians get loads of CHG which in synthesis with EHG is what created yamnaya, Steppe - which is highest amongst northern europeans today.

Despite whether they are clustering more on west asian, or european, my definition may differ from others. I see them as white because of their european identity, being very christian in faith, and their west eurasian blood + their source contribution of an ancient component (CHG) mixing with another foreign component (EHG) to create a component found at an absurdly high % in most europeans today. They are one of the most unique groups we can look at for certain.

[Pater Patota]

Georgian phenotypes are mostly Mtebid, Pontid and Armenid, they’re genetically close to other Caucasian people, Turks, Iranians and Assyrians.So, they’re somewhat white but not the European white.

[Marshall Theodore]

Georgian phenotypes are mostly Mtebid, Pontid and Armenid, they’re genetically close to other Caucasian people, Turks, Iranians and Assyrians.So, they’re somewhat white but not the European white.

In other words, they're not white


I see them as white because of their european identity, being very christian in faith, and their west eurasian blood + their source contribution of an ancient component (CHG) mixing with another foreign component (EHG) to create a component found at an absurdly high % in most europeans today.

Trirracial brazilians are mostly christians and have eurasian blood either, but arent white, just like caucasus ppl.

And as noted, CHG was not European at all, Steppe herders were pratically mongrels (like ANE from EHG being equivalent to modern castizos).

[KirillMazur]

Somewhat borderline. The language is something unique, the culture has similarities with Mena and Med countries. Some can pass as white, but some are like that:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDR3Skw2NIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UJDNDHylg

[Marshall Theodore]

Some can pass as white

White-passing ≠ White

Use genetics to determine If caucasus people are white or not objectively

[KirillMazur]

White-passing ≠ White

Use genetics to determine If caucasus people are white or not objectively
I am a simple person, and I do not know genetics, therefore I judge intuitively, by direct and indirect signs:).

[vader]

In other words, they're not white



Trirracial brazilians are mostly christians and have eurasian blood either, but arent white, just like caucasus ppl.

And as noted, CHG was not European at all, Steppe herders were pratically mongrels (like ANE from EHG being equivalent to modern castizos).

Steppe is predominant in most europeans (especially northern euros). Farmer peoples come out of areas not in europe too --anatolia, and levant. Your logic means that only your whg is an important identifier of whether someone is european (white), or not.

[Marshall Theodore]

Your logic means that only your whg is an important identifier of whether someone is european (white), or not.

Not exactly, white genetically is someone who is WHG + Steppe + EEF basically, but a 100% WHG person probably would be labelled as "Aryan" for nazi standards, and i doubt that Hitler would accept this, regarding Germans have less WHG than Baltic ppl which he treated as "inferior".

[vader]

doubt any of those weird nazi types would even consider WHG white at all. And WHG is the epitome of native/indigenous european people, everything else were more recent migratory populations seeking refuge in europe already inhabited by these people. WHG's had their alleles tested and had genes similar to me- CG heterogenous- among other darker varieties I believe... which = intermediate to dark skin compared to modern european standards. They did have blue eyes though. I have a cousin who fits a WHG description precisely funny enough, just his eyes are light green/bluish.

[Marshall Theodore]

doubt any of those weird nazi types would even consider WHG white at all

Genetically they would consider WHG as "wHttie pUrE AryAn", but If phenotype matters, then i don't know...

[khanx34]

they are non european white like armenians or caucasian people. they are not aryan, they have only %15 european features in their autosomal dna.
caucasus dna is white but not aryan.

[Marshall Theodore]

they are non european white
Thats a contradiction, white == european



caucasus dna is white but not aryan.

Typical comment from some TA mena...CHG is not a white component and i already showed this here with G25

[khanx34]

white is just skin color, we can see white skinned arabs too because they have some caucasian genes
tbh i think they are similar to europeans but they are not same thing with them
caucasian people is different version of white people but they are not same thing

[Marshall Theodore]

white is just skin color, we can see white skinned arabs too because they have some caucasian genes
tbh i think they are similar to europeans but they are not same thing with them
caucasian people is different version of white people but they are not same thing

So a albino bantu is white?

[Lplius]

Thats a contradiction, white == european




Typical comment from some TA mena...CHG is not a white component and i already showed this here with G25

That's an interesting debate. CHG is a southern Caucasoid ancestral population like ENF, of similar pigmentation and is present in considerable % in all Europeans.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation _in_Europe.jpg
In fact it's a very important component in the original Aryans (Indo-Europeans). I wouldn't be so quick to rule out the whiteness of CHG heavy peoples and much less consider it non-European.

[Marshall Theodore]

That's an interesting debate. CHG is a southern Caucasoid ancestral population like ENF, of similar pigmentation and is present in considerable % in all Europeans.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation _in_Europe.jpg
In fact it's a very important component in the original Aryans (Indo-Europeans). I wouldn't be so quick to rule out the whiteness of CHG heavy peoples and much less consider it non-European.


LOL

Distance to: GEO_CHG
0.15514676 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.16964420 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.16985357 Iranian_Fars
0.17260680 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.17351527 Iranian_Lor
0.17520045 Turkish_East
0.17604027 Iranian_Bandari
0.19092044 Turkish_Kayseri
0.19460313 Turkish_North
0.20341577 Turkish_Northwest
0.20570995 Iranian_Jew
0.21131952 Iraqi
0.27945953 Norwegian
0.28087955 Russian_Smolensk
0.29309621 Finnish_North


Pigmentation means nothing on caucasoid populations (a pale skinned osama from Iraqi isnt whiter than a woggy/swarthy scando) and CHG isnt european, therefore non-white, just like ENF, ANE and half of Yamnaya and EHG DNA.

Caucasus (Georgia/Armenia/Azerbaijan) isnt europe either

[Lplius]

LOL

Distance to: GEO_CHG
0.15514676 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.16964420 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.16985357 Iranian_Fars
0.17260680 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.17351527 Iranian_Lor
0.17520045 Turkish_East
0.17604027 Iranian_Bandari
0.19092044 Turkish_Kayseri
0.19460313 Turkish_North
0.20341577 Turkish_Northwest
0.20570995 Iranian_Jew
0.21131952 Iraqi
0.27945953 Norwegian
0.28087955 Russian_Smolensk
0.29309621 Finnish_North


Pigmentation means nothing on caucasoid populations (a pale skinned osama from Iraqi isnt whiter than a woggy/swarthy scando) and CHG isnt european, therefore non-white, just like ENF, ANE and half of Yamnaya and EHG DNA.

Caucasus (Georgia/Armenia/Azerbaijan) isnt europe either

LOL what? Only WHG peaks in Europeans but that's not their only ancestral source. ENF for instance is closer to Yemenites than to Norwegians and Russians but you wouldn't consider southern Europeans with their main ancestry being ENF as non-white, right?
Makes no sense to consider a light pigmented Caucasoid non-white just because he/she is born in let's say Georgia but a Sardinian who could be mistaken for an Arab as white.
And remember that the Northern Caucasian populations like Chechens, also heavily CHG, are European.

[vader]

LOL what? Only WHG peaks in Europeans but that's not their only ancestral source. ENF for instance is closer to Yemenites than to Norwegians and Russians but you wouldn't consider southern Europeans with their main ancestry being ENF as non-white, right?
Makes no sense to consider a light pigmented Caucasoid non-white just because he/she is born in let's say Georgia but a Sardinian who could be mistaken for an Arab as white.
And remember that the Northern Caucasian populations like Chechens, also heavily CHG, are European.

good reason why some phenotype overlap between arabs, levantines, etc. can occur in southern european, and even more northern parts of europe (bc they also have ENF sources, just lower... think German Futbol player Matt Hummels).

[Marshall Theodore]

LOL what? Only WHG peaks in Europeans but that's not their only ancestral source. ENF for instance is closer to Yemenites than to Norwegians and Russians but you wouldn't consider southern Europeans with their main ancestry being ENF as non-white, right?

Maybe because ALL euros have different levels of ENF input? If only South euros had ENF in Europe, the concept of "white" based on genetics probably would be very different.


Makes no sense to consider a light pigmented Caucasoid non-white just because he/she is born in let's say Georgia but a Sardinian who could be mistaken for an Arab as white.

Light =/= White

Phenotype doesnt matters, pale skin and light traits occurs even in pakistan, and genetics says much more about someone than appareance. A Sardinian can be mistaken as arab, but genetically would cluster perfectly with other europeans (remember, EEF peaks at SW Europe/Sardinia, not some osama country) instead of a georgian, who is closer to iraqis, iranians, turks and syrians than any european ppl.


And remember that the Northern Caucasian populations like Chechens, also heavily CHG, are European.

Maybe just because they're in Russia, but fits better genetically with other West Asians than a Russian from Kaliningrad or Murmansk.

People on this forum probably thinks that i am "straight up eugenist nazi" because of some supposed obsession with genetics, but i just try to be objective in discussions, which is very hard to do It using phenotype as source lulz.

[Marshall Theodore]

good reason why some phenotype overlap between arabs, levantines, etc. can occur in southern european, and even more northern parts of europe (bc they also have ENF sources, just lower... think German Futbol player Matt Hummels).

Thanks to bastard kebab farmers (ENF) making these overlaps with non-euros and weird darkie phenotypes around europe, they are the reason why some europeans are so swarthy and looking like children with pinheads.

A perfect ancient europe would be just 100% WHG or 50% WHG + 50% Steppe (even Steppe carrying likely 20% non-euro, but at least this component makes people lighter) without any ANE, ENF dogshit, from Iberia to Russia.

[khanx34]

Maybe because ALL euros have different levels of ENF input? If only South euros had ENF in Europe, the concept of "white" based on genetics probably would be very different.



Light =/= White

Phenotype doesnt matters, pale skin and light traits occurs even in pakistan, and genetics says much more about someone than appareance. A Sardinian can be mistaken as arab, but genetically would cluster perfectly with other europeans (remember, EEF peaks at SW Europe/Sardinia, not some osama country) instead of a georgian, who is closer to iraqis, iranians, turks and syrians than any european ppl.



Maybe just because they're in Russia, but fits better genetically with other West Asians than a Russian from Kaliningrad or Murmansk.

People on this forum probably thinks that i am "straight up eugenist nazi" because of some supposed obsession with genetics, but i just try to be objective in discussions, which is very hard to do It using phenotype as source lulz.

your long-faced eagle-nosed ugly gaul french mother has shoved the cocks of many Germanic white men in his pussy and you know so well who is white and who is not. Your mother ate as many cocks as she could and your sister should not. i'll put my eurasian west asian mix cock in your sisters and i will create mixed race bastards with the r1a y-dna haplogroup. I'll apply that eugenics you advocate to you by cutting your balls off your dick with an axe, fuckin' french. A schizophrenic Gaul leftover bastard who doesn't have Germanic blood but claims to be German. I don't like Georgians, but I don't understand why an idiot like you insults Georgians. you fucking son of a bitch.
You experiencing racism while you are here, your sisters fucking with black men with 80 IQs. go save your honor.
Go report me and they will ban me from the forum. They can delete my membership. fuckin' faggot.

[Marshall Theodore]

your long-faced eagle-nosed ugly gaul french mother has shoved the cocks of many Germanic white men in his pussy and you know so well who is white and who is not. Your mother ate as many cocks as she could and your sister should not. i'll put my eurasian west asian mix cock in your sisters and i will create mixed race bastards with the r1a y-dna haplogroup. I'll apply that eugenics you advocate to you by cutting your balls off your dick with an axe, fuckin' french. A schizophrenic Gaul leftover bastard who doesn't have Germanic blood but claims to be German. I don't like Georgians, but I don't understand why an idiot like you insults Georgians. you fucking son of a bitch.
You experiencing racism while you are here, your sisters fucking with black men with 80 IQs. go save your honor.
Go report me and they will ban me from the forum. They can delete my membership. fuckin' faggot.

Lmao

[Eurafricanid]

Thanks to bastard kebab farmers (ENF) making these overlaps with non-euros and weird darkie phenotypes around europe, they are the reason why some europeans are so swarthy and looking like children with pinheads.

A perfect ancient europe would be just 100% WHG or 50% WHG + 50% Steppe (even Steppe carrying likely 20% non-euro, but at least this component makes people lighter) without any ANE, ENF dogshit, from Iberia to Russia.

What? Lol, the kebab also brought light genes to Europe, the WHG were the dark ones

[Marshall Theodore]

What? Lol, the kebab also brought light genes to Europe, the WHG were the dark ones

I doubt, isnt Steppe who brought light genes?

It seems nowadays that then more ENF-shifted is someone then looks more "exotic".

[Eurafricanid]

I doubt, isnt Steppe who brought light genes?

It seems nowadays that then more ENF-shifted is someone then looks more "exotic".

But you know that WHG were very dark, right?

[Marshall Theodore]

But you know that WHG were very dark, right?

Yes, dark europids, but i doubt that ENF were lighter

[Eurafricanid]

Yes, dark europids, but i doubt that ENF were lighter

So you acknowledge that they needed outside interference to get light?

[Marshall Theodore]

So you acknowledge that they needed outside interference to get light?

Sure

[Eurafricanid]

Yes, dark europids, but i doubt that ENF were lighter

But wait, aren't the Sardinians almost ENF, why aren't they as dark as WHG then? (I'm not beeing sarcastic)

[Eurafricanid]

Sure

I was looking at my results, and I just realized I have as much WHG as Northern Italians and maaaany times more WHG then central, and especially southern italians, loool

[khanx34]

mtDNA
L2a1c1, L2 (West, Central and North Africa)
+ Sudanid

[Eurafricanid]

mtDNA
L2a1c1, L2 (West, Central and North Africa)
+ Sudanid

What do you mean by this, lol

[Ænglishman]

Well firstly let's break down, what is white. "White" in this instance denotes Paleo-European ancestry or genetic components that are overwhelmingly restricted to Europe. The Argumentation around Caucasians being "White" is based on ANF and CHG ancestry being present in high levels. CHG is only found at low levels in Europeans and is closely proximal to Iran Neolithic which is one of the primary components in all Near Eastern DNA. ANF is only around 35% Paleo-European and is found at higher percentages among Kurds and Levantines than among the plurality of Europeans and therefore cannot be considered solely "White". Given that even Yemeni's and Saudi's have ANF and therefore WHG heritage this creates a problem, at what point along a cline is the seperation drawn, I would say at the Midpoint which would be about 38.4%. So Near Easterners with more than around a Third ANE and WHG could be considered to have European mixture and Europeans with Near Eastern elements excessive beyond that point to have Near Eastern Mixture. This would make French Hungarian Swiss Slovene ect the starting point for "pure" Europeans, and Turks and Caucasians would be near the break point where Near Easterners begin. The reality of the matter is though, Southern Europeans aren't white, they are mostly white. If we add up Dzudzuana "near Eastern" ancestry it hovers around 50-66.5% in Southern Europeans well above the 38.4% margin and it's not all ANF and CHG there is commonly Iran neolithic Natufian and even trace Subsaharan present in South Italians Greeks and Spaniards which is recent ancestry. Hell if you average together Parisian and Jordanian it comes out closer to Greek and South Italian than most North Italians do, 116441 116442.I intend no offense but it kills me to see people quibbling about Boers being 1% African or Finns being 5% Siberian while acting as though Greco-Romans and some Spaniards being up to 35% MENA is just a drop in the ocean. This did pertain to my statement though, which is to say are Georgians White, no but they are Mediterranean and from the perspective of other people with near Eastern mixture they are "white".

[Ænglishman]

What? Lol, the kebab also brought light genes to Europe, the WHG were the dark ones

Unlikely. WHG lacks DNA associated with dark skin which occurs in Africans and Australasians ( MSFD12 ) and have some but not all of the DNA associated with light skin in Eurasians. Cheddar man also wasn't perfectly preserved however two other WHG's who were, were both predicted to have "intermediate" in other words olive complexion. Also the same model that Predicted WHG as black predicted Chinese as black so yeah.

[khanx34]

Unlikely. WHG lacks DNA associated with dark skin which occurs in Africans and Australasians ( MSFD12 ) and have some but not all of the DNA associated with light skin in Eurasians. Cheddar man also wasn't perfectly preserved however two other WHG's who were, were both predicted to have "intermediate" in other words olive complexion. Also the same model that Predicted WHG as black predicted Chinese as black so yeah.

i dont care about your whg.

who is not born with mongolian spot from my all relatives they are whiteskin and this whiteskins half usually light eyes + blonde/red hair.

look at turkic people from central asia their half is whiteskin (some of them have light eyes and blonde/red hair) and their half is darker.

because genes is mixed. you can see an family creates 10 kid and this kids half white half not white. (mongolian spot factor)

if you are walking on streets much this mongolian spot makes you more darker than whites usually.

https://st.depositphotos.com/1585997/1735/i/950/depositphotos_17354819-stock-photo-mongolian-mongols.jpg

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/489660880/photo/mongolian-man-traditional-dress-solitude-tranquil-concept.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=OL9yp8zC6A0DwNS6YSkJLjnWawY9a-YXMersbn7G_Gg=

[Ænglishman]

i dont care about your whg.

who is not born with mongolian spot from my all relatives they are whiteskin and this whiteskins half usually light eyes + blonde/red hair.

if you are walking on streets much this mongolian spot makes you more darker than whites usually.

https://st.depositphotos.com/1585997/1735/i/950/depositphotos_17354819-stock-photo-mongolian-mongols.jpg

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/489660880/photo/mongolian-man-traditional-dress-solitude-tranquil-concept.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=OL9yp8zC6A0DwNS6YSkJLjnWawY9a-YXMersbn7G_Gg=

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say here due to poor sentence structure. My point was that WHG probably had about the same skin tone as ANF ( Which Turks aren't, nor are they actually Mongoloid or Turkic ). EHG/WSH carried a lot of the traits we associate with lighter pigment in Europeans and for the same reasons Caucasians who inherited some of the same traits from their high ANE input tend to be light for near easterners.

[Valkyrion]

S Tier White category: Only untainted Whites are native British Isles population, Germans/Dutch people and Scandinavians.

A Tier White category: Slightly tainted Whites are West and East Slavs (excluding part of Russian population), Balts and native Northern French population.

B Tier White category: Moderately tainted Whites are South Slavs, Hungarians, Northern Italians, native Central-Southern France population.

C Tier White category: Heavily tainted Whites are part of Russians, Romanians/Moldovans, Iberians, Southern Italians, Greeks and Albanians.

D Tier Euro(Afro)-Asian category: mixed population consisting dark skinned Caucasoids, Mongoloids, (off-)Whites and sometimes Negroids, but often can resemble C tier whites, even B or A tier, like it's case with some Chechens and Tatars, due to lot of White ancestry.

To summarize only actual biologic Whites are unmixed Caucasoids who are on type I pigmentary phenotype Fitzpatrick scale (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Influence_of_pigmentation_on_skin_cancer_risk.png) , everything else is Black.

[Marshall Theodore]

S Tier White category: Only untainted Whites are native British Isles population, Germans/Dutch people and Scandinavians.

A Tier White category: Slightly tainted Whites are West and East Slavs (excluding part of Russian population), Balts and native Northern French population.

B Tier White category: Moderately tainted Whites are South Slavs, Hungarians, Northern Italians, native Central-Southern France population.

C Tier White category: Heavily tainted Whites are part of Russians, Romanians/Moldovans, Iberians, Southern Italians, Greeks and Albanians.

D Tier Euro(Afro)-Asian category: mixed population consisting dark skinned Caucasoids, Mongoloids, (off-)Whites and sometimes Negroids, but often can resemble C tier whites, even B or A tier, like it's case with some Chechens and Tatars, due to lot of White ancestry.

To summarize only actual biologic Whites are unmixed Caucasoids who are on type I pigmentary phenotype Fitzpatrick scale (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Influence_of_pigmentation_on_skin_cancer_risk.png) , everything else is Black.

By "untainted" you mean "pure"? LULZ what a bs

By my own experience, i would put romanians and Iberians at B-Tier If by "untainted" you mean "lighter"

[Lplius]

Maybe because ALL euros have different levels of ENF input? If only South euros had ENF in Europe, the concept of "white" based on genetics probably would be very different.

And all Europeans have CHG too and it peaks closer to Europe, unlike ENF which peaks in Arabia.


Light =/= White

Phenotype doesnt matters, pale skin and light traits occurs even in pakistan, and genetics says much more about someone than appareance. A Sardinian can be mistaken as arab, but genetically would cluster perfectly with other europeans (remember, EEF peaks at SW Europe/Sardinia, not some osama country) instead of a georgian, who is closer to iraqis, iranians, turks and syrians than any european ppl.

So to you this man is non-white
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Ramzan_Kadyrov%2C_2014.jpeg
but this one is white?
https://es.web.img2.acsta.net/pictures/16/02/10/17/03/528952.jpg
Whatever.


Maybe just because they're in Russia, but fits better genetically with other West Asians than a Russian from Kaliningrad or Murmansk.

People on this forum probably thinks that i am "straight up eugenist nazi" because of some supposed obsession with genetics, but i just try to be objective in discussions, which is very hard to do It using phenotype as source lulz.

CHG is another southern Caucasoid ancestry like ENF so if it capable of producing light individuals they have to be considered white because they're undistinguishable from light Europeans. Sardinians and Balts do not cluster together and they have different types of Caucasoid ancestries but you consider both white so makes no sense to make an exception for Georgians or Chechens.

[Ænglishman]

And all Europeans have CHG too and it peaks closer to Europe, unlike ENF which peaks in Arabia.



So to you this man is non-white
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Ramzan_Kadyrov%2C_2014.jpeg
but this one is white?
https://es.web.img2.acsta.net/pictures/16/02/10/17/03/528952.jpg
Whatever.



CHG is another southern Caucasoid ancestry like ENF so if it capable of producing light individuals they have to be considered white because they're undistinguishable from light Europeans. Sardinians and Balts do not cluster together and they have different types of Caucasoid ancestries but you consider both white so makes no sense to make an exception for Georgians or Chechens.

Your line of logic is retarded, CHG is proximal to Iran not Europe and ANF is much more common in Europeans than CHG is, CHG does however have slightly more paleo-European mixture than ANF. Balts and Sardinians DO cluster closer to other Europeans and Lithuanians will ALWAYS be closer to other EUROPEAN ethnicities whereas these depigmented MENA people from the South Caucasus cluster with MENA populations, the only exception being that Caucasia and Anatolia are slightly closer or could be considered to have minor European mixture, North Caucasia is more debatable but the Chechens you are using as an example not only have WSH ancestry which is absent in South Caucasians whom are just as distant to them as Italians are to Englishmen but also have recent minor mixture from Eastern Europeans which is also absent in South Caucasians. Physical Appearance nor culture mean anything in ethnic classification an albino African Christian is still an African. Caucasians and some Mediterranean's are mixed but the existance of MENAstizos does not mean they should be included as purely European or purely Middle Eastern when they are obvisouly between those broader catagories. Also ENF which is ANF plus even more WHG doesn't peak among Arabs it peaks in Sardinia and even pure ANF is closer to Italians than to MENA peoples it's just closer to MENAstizos and Levantines than northerners.

[Lplius]

Your line of logic is retarded, CHG is proximal to Iran not Europe and ANF is much more common in Europeans than CHG is, CHG does however have slightly more paleo-European mixture than ANF. Balts and Sardinians DO cluster closer to other Europeans and Lithuanians will ALWAYS be closer to other EUROPEAN ethnicities whereas these depigmented MENA people from the South Caucasus cluster with MENA populations, the only exception being that Caucasia and Anatolia are slightly closer or could be considered to have minor European mixture, North Caucasia is more debatable but the Chechens you are using as an example not only have WSH ancestry which is absent in South Caucasians whom are just as distant to them as Italians are to Englishmen but also have recent minor mixture from Eastern Europeans which is also absent in South Caucasians. Physical Appearance nor culture mean anything in ethnic classification an albino African Christian is still an African. Caucasians and some Mediterranean's are mixed but the existance of MENAstizos does not mean they should be included as purely European or purely Middle Eastern when they are obvisouly between those broader catagories. Also ENF which is ANF plus even more WHG doesn't peak among Arabs it peaks in Sardinia and even pure ANF is closer to Italians than to MENA peoples it's just closer to MENAstizos and Levantines than northerners.

My line of logic is that all Europeans have different types of Caucasoid ancestries and only one of them (WHG) peaks in Europe, and since there is no European population 100% WHG you have to consider the product of the mix of all of them as white, including CHG.
Your argument about ENF being more European than CHG is stupid because they both come from outside Europe and are most common among MENAs. Considering ENF as European because it's more widespread is like considering West Africans as more European than East Africans because the majority of blacks living in Europe come from West Africa.

[Ænglishman]

My line of logic is that all Europeans have different types of Caucasoid ancestries and only one of them (WHG) peaks in Europe, and since there is no European population 100% WHG you have to consider the product of the mix of all of them as white, including CHG.
Your argument about ENF being more European than CHG is stupid because they both come from outside Europe and are most common among MENAs. Considering ENF as European because it's more widespread is like considering West Africans as more European than East Africans because the majority of blacks living in Europe come from West Africa.

Nice strawman. The term Caucasoid refers to a morphology not a genotype and isn't synonymous with West Eurasian. ANE which makes up 25% of European DNA is 20% East Asian meaning almost all Europeans are 5% East Asian depending on how far back you go. My argument is based on ANF being more closely related to modern Europeans and CHG being more closely related to Iranians and Caucasians. WHG also has a small unkown quantity of East Asian DNA and so does CHG so by your definition Europeans are made up of differing levels of Caucasoid and Mongoloid components and makes Kazakhs European because they are the same but simply in a skewd proportion. This same fallacy is where the claim more variance within than without comes from because it dosen't take into account how common said ancestry is but simply whether or not it can exist. So for example A European is 5~% Mongoloid but Saami are 20% more than that therefore they are mixed. Caucasians are 45% CHG and 35% ANF with Iran neolithic and natufian which don't exist in Europeans and have no WSH which is 33-55% of European DNA whereas Europeans are what 7.5-15% CHG so at maximum from the perspective of mixed Aegeans or Sicilians they are half European sharing around 43-50% ancestry whereas the same Greeks share 75+% with other Europeans. I already explained my methodology earlier in setting what is "pure" as the median being that almost no MENA populations have anything close to 38% paleolithic European DNA and only a few "European" populations like Greeks Sicilians and Canary islanders have more than 40% MENA mixture from ancient components like EHG WHG ANF CHG Natufian and Iran neolithic, I should clarify for this I break down WHG and ANE mixture in the CHG and ANF because they were already mixed at the time.

[Ænglishman]

I should appologize though I'm just frustrated because it annoys me for people to sperg out about Finns or Boers being like 1-3~% non-European then attacking Northern Euros who want to stay Northern or who don't buy into pan-whiteism. I have no problem with Greeks and I respect Spanish culture quite alot, Spaniards and Russians have a unique history of resisting colonization. I just am very agitated by people's lack of knowledge and the hypocrisy some people have in regards to "whiteness". That and the pretty much indisputable fact that south Caucasians aren't European and don't even cluster with aegeans. North Caucasians are more debatable but even they would be considered heavily mixed.

116443

[Eurafricanid]

S Tier White category: Only untainted Whites are native British Isles population, Germans/Dutch people and Scandinavians.

A Tier White category: Slightly tainted Whites are West and East Slavs (excluding part of Russian population), Balts and native Northern French population.

B Tier White category: Moderately tainted Whites are South Slavs, Hungarians, Northern Italians, native Central-Southern France population.

C Tier White category: Heavily tainted Whites are part of Russians, Romanians/Moldovans, Iberians, Southern Italians, Greeks and Albanians.

D Tier Euro(Afro)-Asian category: mixed population consisting dark skinned Caucasoids, Mongoloids, (off-)Whites and sometimes Negroids, but often can resemble C tier whites, even B or A tier, like it's case with some Chechens and Tatars, due to lot of White ancestry.

To summarize only actual biologic Whites are unmixed Caucasoids who are on type I pigmentary phenotype Fitzpatrick scale (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Influence_of_pigmentation_on_skin_cancer_risk.png) , everything else is Black.

I don't understand how these:

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 5.1615% / 0.05161450
55.4 ANF
27.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.6 WHG

Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 3.3687% / 0.03368652
56.2 ANF
28.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.2 WHG
2.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Spanish_Mallorca
Distance: 2.7227% / 0.02722678
55.0 ANF
32.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.6 WHG
1.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Spanish_Galicia
Distance: 3.2014% / 0.03201436
53.2 ANF
30.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.8 WHG
4.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Spanish_Aragon
Distance: 3.8847% / 0.03884661
55.8 ANF
29.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
13.0 WHG
2.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Spanish_Andalucia
Distance: 3.2020% / 0.03201999
54.8 ANF
28.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.0 WHG
4.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Spanish_Murcia
Distance: 2.7527% / 0.02752659
55.6 ANF
28.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.8 WHG
4.2 MAR_Taforalt
0.2 Han

Are more mixed than these:

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 2.4244% / 0.02424364
57.2 ANF
34.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.2 WHG


Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 3.0906% / 0.03090609
51.0 ANF
32.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
5.8 WHG

Target: Italian_Liguria
Distance: 3.3178% / 0.03317771
36.2 ANF
32.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
23.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
6.4 WHG
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Veneto
Distance: 2.2226% / 0.02222584
53.4 ANF
34.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.2 WHG
4.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 3.0856% / 0.03085643
40.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
31.4 ANF
22.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
5.8 WHG
0.4 Jarawa

Target: Serbian
Distance: 3.9850% / 0.03984963
45.6 ANF
43.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.4 WHG
3.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N


And as mixed as these:

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.4750% / 0.01474954
55.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
22.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.0 ANF
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.2 MAR_Taforalt
2.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
0.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.2 Han

Target: Italian_Basilicata
Distance: 1.3283% / 0.01328293
48.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
26.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.0 ANF
4.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.6 Levant_PPNB
0.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 2.0335% / 0.02033528
37.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
32.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
24.0 ANF
3.8 Levant_PPNB
1.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 WHG
0.2 Han


Btw:

Target: TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
Distance: 5.0790% / 0.05079046
52.8 Sardinian
46.4 Samaritan
0.8 Yemenite_Ma'rib

[Jana]

And all Europeans have CHG too and it peaks closer to Europe

very low to none actually, it's highest among Greeks and south Italians and it is much higher in middle east than in Europe.

[Jana]

And all Europeans have CHG too and it peaks closer to Europe, unlike ENF which peaks in Arabia.

Nonsense.

ENF peaks in Sardinians and Basques, CHG is incomparably more non European component.
And Arabs have much more of CHG than ANF admixture.

[Jana]

I should appologize though I'm just frustrated because it annoys me for people to sperg out about Finns or Boers being like 1-3~% non-European then attacking Northern Euros who want to stay Northern or who don't buy into pan-whiteism. I have no problem with Greeks and I respect Spanish culture quite alot, Spaniards and Russians have a unique history of resisting colonization. I just am very agitated by people's lack of knowledge and the hypocrisy some people have in regards to "whiteness". That and the pretty much indisputable fact that south Caucasians aren't European and don't even cluster with aegeans. North Caucasians are more debatable but even they would be considered heavily mixed.

116443

North Caucasians are not debatable at all. They cluster nowhere close to Europe and have more of exotic admixture than Georgians do, including Iran neo and mongoloid/Indian like admix.
they just have much more steppe but that doesn't make them European, some people in Pakistan and Tajikistan have tons of steppe too.

[Jana]

Khadyrov looks white but that is irrelevant. He isn't and will never be European and his genetic ancestry is for the most part foreign to Europe.
lookism is for imbeciles.

Chimaev is a Chechen too and looks MENA as hell.

Chechens aren't European no matter how many cherrypicked blond west Asians and exotic Euros somebody can post.

Move on.

[Marshall Theodore]

very low to none actually, it's highest among Greeks and south Italians and it is much higher in middle east than in Europe.

Is this "CHG" the same West Asian carryied by Steppe? If im not mistaken, Steppe herders were 15-20% WA, therefore all euros have WA/CHG on different levels, peaking at South Italians and Greeks.

[Jana]

Is this "CHG" the same West Asian carryied by Steppe? If im not mistaken, Steppe herders were 15-20% WA, therefore all haver WA/CHG on different levels, peaking at South Italians and Greeks.

Greeks and Italians have extra Caucasus/CHG that came during from Roman Empire from Anatolia/Levant.
Yamnaya were high in CHG but Corded Ware and Bell Beaker not really.

Most Euros descend from these and not directly from Yamnaya except Greeks and Albanians.

[Marshall Theodore]

Most Euros descend from these and not directly from Yamnaya except Greeks and Albanians.

Sure, not directly, but probably indirectly because Corded Ware were half Steppe? I don't know so much about this ppl

[Lplius]

Nice strawman. The term Caucasoid refers to a morphology not a genotype and isn't synonymous with West Eurasian. ANE which makes up 25% of European DNA is 20% East Asian meaning almost all Europeans are 5% East Asian depending on how far back you go. My argument is based on ANF being more closely related to modern Europeans and CHG being more closely related to Iranians and Caucasians. WHG also has a small unkown quantity of East Asian DNA and so does CHG so by your definition Europeans are made up of differing levels of Caucasoid and Mongoloid components and makes Kazakhs European because they are the same but simply in a skewd proportion. This same fallacy is where the claim more variance within than without comes from because it dosen't take into account how common said ancestry is but simply whether or not it can exist. So for example A European is 5~% Mongoloid but Saami are 20% more than that therefore they are mixed. Caucasians are 45% CHG and 35% ANF with Iran neolithic and natufian which don't exist in Europeans and have no WSH which is 33-55% of European DNA whereas Europeans are what 7.5-15% CHG so at maximum from the perspective of mixed Aegeans or Sicilians they are half European sharing around 43-50% ancestry whereas the same Greeks share 75+% with other Europeans. I already explained my methodology earlier in setting what is "pure" as the median being that almost no MENA populations have anything close to 38% paleolithic European DNA and only a few "European" populations like Greeks Sicilians and Canary islanders have more than 40% MENA mixture from ancient components like EHG WHG ANF CHG Natufian and Iran neolithic, I should clarify for this I break down WHG and ANE mixture in the CHG and ANF because they were already mixed at the time.

You fail to understand that both ENF and CHG come from West Asia and peak in West Asia so there is no reason to consider CHG heavy Georgians as non-white but ENF heavy Sardinians as white. Moreso when pigmentation and feature wise both are as dissimilar to the white archetype.
You make an exception because ENF is more widespread in Europe but that's not even an argument.
Strictly speaking some Caucasian peoples are European and others aren't but white is a more malleable category so you will find many Georgians who will go unnoticed in Europe while also find many Europeans who won't stand out in Georgia.

[Jana]

You fail to understand that both ENF and CHG come from West Asia and peak in West Asia so there is no reason to consider CHG heavy Georgians as non-white but ENF heavy Sardinians as white. Moreso when pigmentation and feature wise both are as dissimilar to the white archetype.
You make an exception because ENF is more widespread in Europe but that's not even an argument.
Strictly speaking some Caucasian peoples are European and others aren't but white is a more malleable category so you will find many Georgians who will go unnoticed in Europe while also find many Europeans who won't stand out in Georgia.

ENF does not peak in West Asia but southern Europe and no Caucasian is European.

[Lplius]

very low to none actually, it's highest among Greeks and south Italians and it is much higher in middle east than in Europe.

Yamnaya people were half CHG so go figure. Not to mention the post Bronze age expansion of peoples bringing CHG into Europe and specially the southeast of the continent.

[Jana]

Yamnaya people were half CHG so go figure. Not to mention the post Bronze age expansion of peoples bringing CHG into Europe and specially the southeast of the continent.

Irrelevant. CHG is very low in non southern Europeans and far more widespread in MENA. Vast majority of Europeans don't descend from Yamnaya.

[Eurafricanid]

You fail to understand that both ENF and CHG come from West Asia and peak in West Asia so there is no reason to consider CHG heavy Georgians as non-white but ENF heavy Sardinians as white. Moreso when pigmentation and feature wise both are as dissimilar to the white archetype.
You make an exception because ENF is more widespread in Europe but that's not even an argument.
Strictly speaking some Caucasian peoples are European and others aren't but white is a more malleable category so you will find many Georgians who will go unnoticed in Europe while also find many Europeans who won't stand out in Georgia.

ENF peaks in West Asia?? LOL

Target: Swedish
Distance: 4.5831% / 0.04583107
51.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
32.2 ENF
16.6 WHG

Target: Spanish_Aragon_North
Distance: 4.0053% / 0.04005317
55.2 ENF
28.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.8 WHG
0.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 2.4244% / 0.02424364
57.2 ENF
34.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.2 WHG

Target: German_Hamburg
Distance: 4.2887% / 0.04288746
48.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
36.6 ENF
14.8 WHG

Target: Lebanese_Christian
Distance: 1.7433% / 0.01743260
38.0 Levant_PPNB
22.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
21.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
13.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Sardinian
Distance: 3.4393% / 0.03439319
81.6 ENF
13.2 WHG
4.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 5.2592% / 0.05259193
42.2 Levant_Natufian
33.8 Levant_PPNB
13.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 4.3124% / 0.04312392
42.6 Levant_Natufian
36.6 Levant_PPNB
20.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 Gambian

[Lplius]

ENF does not peak in West Asia but southern Europe and no Caucasian is European.

European neolithic farmers are the same farmers from the Levant plus extra WHG-like just like CHG are Iran_N plus extra ANE and WHG and they do peak in Arabia.
There is no reason to consider ENF a more European or whiter ancestry than CHG.

[Lplius]

Irrelevant. CHG is very low in non southern Europeans and far more widespread in MENA. Vast majority of Europeans don't descend from Yamnaya.

But Corded Ware is itself derived mostly from Yamnaya who were half CHG.
Then again the quantity is irrelevant because both ENF and CHG come from West Asia and peak in West Asia.

[Jana]

Most native Europeans like Latvians score 5X more Anatolia neolithic than CHG (using rothaer ancient calc here, thanks!)

Target: Latvian
Distance: 0.0885% / 0.08847212

48.0 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
34.9 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N
10.1 WHG=BEL_Loschbour
7.0 CHG=GEO_CHG

meanwhile Saudi Arabs

Target: Saudi
Distance: 0.0672% / 0.06719833

75.6 Natufian=Levant_Natufian
21.2 CHG=GEO_CHG
3.2 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N

Over 20% CHG and only 3% Anatolia Neolithic. It's pretty clear which component is non European one.

[Lplius]

ENF peaks in West Asia?? LOL

Target: Swedish
Distance: 4.5831% / 0.04583107
51.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
32.2 ENF
16.6 WHG

Target: Spanish_Aragon_North
Distance: 4.0053% / 0.04005317
55.2 ENF
28.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.8 WHG
0.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Distance: 2.4244% / 0.02424364
57.2 ENF
34.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.2 WHG

Target: German_Hamburg
Distance: 4.2887% / 0.04288746
48.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
36.6 ENF
14.8 WHG

Target: Lebanese_Christian
Distance: 1.7433% / 0.01743260
38.0 Levant_PPNB
22.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
21.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
13.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Sardinian
Distance: 3.4393% / 0.03439319
81.6 ENF
13.2 WHG
4.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 5.2592% / 0.05259193
42.2 Levant_Natufian
33.8 Levant_PPNB
13.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 4.3124% / 0.04312392
42.6 Levant_Natufian
36.6 Levant_PPNB
20.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 Gambian

What do you think Levant_Natufian, Levant_PPNB and TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N are? They're the parents of ENF.

[Eurafricanid]

So you did't see my post? Hmm..

[Jana]

But Corded Ware is itself derived mostly from Yamnaya who were half CHG.
Then again the quantity is irrelevant because both ENF and CHG come from West Asia and peak in West Asia.

I think it was written to you more than once that you write unfactual nonsense. Move on.

[Eurafricanid]

What do you think Levant_Natufian, Levant_PPNB and TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N are? They're the parents of ENF.

The parents....

Target: TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
Distance: 2.1712% / 0.02171190
74.2 ENF
16.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
9.0 Levant_Natufian

Target: Levant_PPNB
Distance: 3.6710% / 0.03671010
53.6 Levant_Natufian
46.4 ENF

And even if they are the "parents", in some way, the "child" isn't the parents, and it's very clear who matches more ENF and who doesn't

[Jana]

But Corded Ware is itself derived mostly from Yamnaya who were half CHG.
Then again the quantity is irrelevant because both ENF and CHG come from West Asia and peak in West Asia.

Corded Ware is less CHG than Yamnaya and more ENF.

Target: Corded_Ware_Baltic
Distance: 0.0510% / 0.05104857

45.9 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
29.0 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N
16.5 CHG=GEO_CHG
8.6 WHG=BEL_Loschbour

Target: Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Distance: 0.0588% / 0.05879302

56.7 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
36.5 CHG=GEO_CHG
6.8 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N

Bell Beaker as well.

Target: Bell_Beaker_NLD
Distance: 0.0577% / 0.05773382

41.6 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
35.7 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N
14.8 CHG=GEO_CHG
7.9 WHG=BEL_Loschbour

[Jana]

European neolithic farmers are the same farmers from the Levant plus extra WHG-like just like CHG are Iran_N plus extra ANE and WHG and they do peak in Arabia.
There is no reason to consider ENF a more European or whiter ancestry than CHG.

Nope. I guess you are MENA trying to be white or European. Sry.

[Eurafricanid]

What do you think Levant_Natufian, Levant_PPNB and TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N are? They're the parents of ENF.

And even if they are the "parents", in some way, the "child" isn't the parents, and it's very clear who matches more ENF and who doesn't

[kingmob]

I don't care for this discussion, but one reason the southern euros are distinct to North Euros is due to their high Anatolian Farmer, that is, more likely than not, responsible for their Med phenotype.

And for this reason, they overlap more with MENA people than with Northern Euros in their phenotypes.

[Jana]

I don't care for this discussion, but one reason the southern euros are distinct to North Euros is due to their high Anatolian Farmer, that is, more likely than not, responsible for their Med phenotype.

And for this reason, they overlap more with MENA people than with Northern Euros in their phenotypes.

Anatolian Farmer causes Med phenotype. CHG causes Taurid/Armenoid phenotype.

Dinarid traits of some Yamnaya reconstructions or Bell Beaker skulls come from CHG source.

[rothaer]

I know you've already talked about Armenians before, but what about their northern neighbors, the Georgians, are they considered white or European? Is this a question at all? What do you guys think about it?


I think there is no "White" topic in Europe. You have Northern Europeans and you have Mediterraneans (which in this conext is restricted to Europeans). Both is essentially regardless of pigmentation, i. e. a dark Northern European is not questioned being a Northern European and a blonde Mediterranean is not questioned being a Mediterranean.

But you have the aspect of someone being European or not, at least in Germany.

In all this context Georgians are no Europeans. Their possible "Whiteness" compared to others, like Pakistanis, is also no topic.

[Cristiano viejo]

I don't care for this discussion, but one reason the southern euros are distinct to North Euros is due to their high Anatolian Farmer, that is, more likely than not, responsible for their Med phenotype.

And for this reason, they overlap more with MENA people than with Northern Euros in their phenotypes.
Not true. Vast majority of MENAs are brown, South Europeans are not.
Vast majority of MENAs have non Euro features, South Europeans have, obviously, European features.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Distanceto: WHG
0.37054762 Latvian
0.37122260 Lithuanian_SZ
0.37134929 Lithuanian_PZ
0.37342454 Estonian
0.37651930 Finnish_Southeast
0.37708815 Finnish_East
0.37715015 Karelian
0.37746781 Lithuanian_VA
0.37752999 Lithuanian_VZ
0.37813796 Russian_Pskov
0.37857162 Ingrian
0.37932627 Finnish_North
0.37938827 Finnish_Central
0.37993342 Lithuanian_RA
0.38050075 Finnish_Southwest
0.38142687 Vepsian
0.38148791 Lithuanian_PA
0.38323674 Russian_Pinega
0.38492605 Belarusian
0.38499803 Russian_Kaluga
0.38550000 Swedish
0.38556247 Russian_Pinezhsky
0.38666198 Cossack_Kuban
0.38712110 Russian_Krasnoborsky
0.38754532 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.38770506 Polish_Kashubian
0.38774378 Russian_Smolensk
0.38857076 Icelandic
0.38911988 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.38949298 Russian_Tver
0.38975930 Russian_Kursk
0.38997959 Norwegian
0.39008621 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.39009601 Polish
0.39036192 Russian_Voronez
0.39051730 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.39082808 Russian_Kostroma
0.39128173 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.39169320 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.39189728 Danish
0.39305875 Russian_Belgorod
0.39334156 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.39337704 Erzya
0.39362209 Russian_Orel
0.39381283 Saami_Kola
0.39422942 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.39428502 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
0.39441967 Orcadian
0.39461806 German_Hamburg
0.39523209 Russian_Ryazan
0.39563949 Basque_Navarre_North
0.39569094 Basque_Baztan
0.39628535 Basque_Spanish
0.39640569 Basque_French
0.39651780 Basque_Araba
0.39657142 Slovakian
0.39657655 Basque_Roncal
0.39666478 German_East
0.39713674 Welsh
0.39720314 Irish
0.39727263 Basque_Biscay
0.39737479 Scottish
0.39738476 Russian_Leshukonsky
0.39747017 Czech
0.39754174 English
0.39773862 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.39794310 Basque_Gipuzkoa
0.39808482 English_Cornwall
0.39833646 Dutch
0.39873776 Moksha
0.39986473 French_Brittany
0.40016608 Basque_Soule
0.40062436 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.40110437 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.40115391 German
0.40137464 French_Chalosse
0.40219214 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.40251513 Shetlandic
0.40290593 Afrikaner
0.40333529 French_Bearn
0.40342730 French_South
0.40403144 German_Erlangen
0.40407066 Basque_Navarre_Center
0.40512306 Moldovan_o
0.40592766 Spanish_Biscay
0.40596135 BelgianA
0.40606788 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.40711091 Austrian
0.40729106 Spanish_Aragon_North
0.40755794 Hungarian
0.40762724 Slovenian
0.40860899 French_Bigorre
0.40868791 Spanish_Soria
0.40877784 French_Occitanie
0.40899979 BelgianB
0.40928252 French_Seine-Maritime
0.40949495 French_Nord
0.40973104 BelgianC
0.41012451 French_Paris
0.41099708 Croatian
0.41172774 French_Alsace
0.41184947 Komi
0.41184979 Spanish_Burgos
0.41274752 French_Auvergne
0.41274758 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.41327830 Spanish_Barcelones
0.41362968 Swiss_German
0.41388046 Saami
0.41396528 Spanish_Pirineu
0.41408775 Spanish_Cataluna
0.41498849 Spanish_Castello
0.41546547 Spanish_Cantabria
0.41549522 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.41579696 Spanish_Navarra
0.41648654 Spanish_Valencia
0.41658637 Tatar_Mishar
0.41659361 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.41704261 Spanish_Lleida
0.41747326 Spanish_Asturias
0.41806340 Swiss_French
0.41814589 Spanish_Aragon
0.41820405 Spanish_Penedes
0.41917625 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.41951462 Spanish_Girona
0.41997421 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.42003255 Spanish_Galicia
0.42049618 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.42070925 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.42123903 Spanish_Alacant
0.42150908 Bosnian
0.42180673 Spanish_Andalucia
0.42245024 Spanish_Murcia
0.42358480 Spanish_Mallorca
0.42413447 Spanish_Extremadura
0.42453446 Spanish_Menorca
0.42483238 Portuguese
0.42491996 Moldovan
0.42543260 Spanish_Eivissa
0.42602076 Spanish_Baleares
0.42619936 French_Provence
0.42643066 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.42773918 Montenegrin
0.42905014 Serbian
0.43258866 Italian_Northeast
0.43264141 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.43316259 Tatar_Kazan
0.43337412 Spanish_Canarias
0.43402867 Romanian
0.43650515 Italian_Veneto
0.43835630 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
0.43969330 Bulgarian
0.44008981 Macedonian
0.44130911 Italian_Bergamo
0.44315402 Besermyan
0.44373350 Chuvash
0.44401741 Roma_Barcelona
0.44408494 Italian_Liguria
0.44687821 Italian_Piedmont
0.44713806 Swiss_Italian
0.44736287 Italian_Lombardy
0.44738162 Gagauz
0.44874336 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
0.44896751 Udmurt
0.44947110 French_Corsica
0.45068111 Turkish_Deliorman
0.45229068 Italian_Emilia
0.45256461 Sardinian
0.45618874 Tatar_Lipka
0.45797953 Italian_Tuscany
0.45896682 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.46028567 Albanian
0.46060601 Rumelia_East
0.46061080 Greek_Macedonia
0.46098349 Turkish_Rumeli
0.46099758 Roma_Madrid
0.46295340 Greek_Thessaly
0.46501702 Mari
0.46527228 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.46575650 Italian_Umbria
0.46657262 Italian_Marche
0.46760787 Greek_Achaea
0.46803108 Roma_Bilbao
0.46820875 Greek_Arcadia
0.46825687 Sicilian_West
0.46838768 Greek_Messenia
0.46839050 Italian_Lazio
0.46911039 Greek_Elis
0.46955623 Greek_Peloponnese
0.47003666 Greek_Argolis
0.47090057 Greek_Corinthia
0.47180362 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.47337771 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.47364643 Greek_Laconia
0.47385963 Roma_Granada
0.47395773 Roma_Porto
0.47415517 Greek_Cyclades_Kea
0.47502956 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.47565975 Italian_Abruzzo
0.47579793 Italian_Molise
0.47876964 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.47951182 Greek_Izmir
0.48008730 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.48008972 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.48059387 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.48089834 Sicilian_East
0.48131328 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.48135956 Italian_Apulia
0.48185124 Maltese
0.48248799 Italian_Basilicata
0.48287353 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.48328555 Roma_Balkans
0.48337161 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.48360655 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.48417996 Greek_Apulia
0.48473957 Italian_Campania
0.48512542 Tajik_Rushan
0.48584924 Greek_Cyclades_Milos
0.48753092 Italian_Calabria
0.48906048 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.48907787 Tajik_Shugnan
0.48949257 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.49050848 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
0.49109185 Maori
0.49180201 Sephardic_Jew_o
0.49189734 Greek_Crete_Heraklion
0.49318436 Greek_Crete
0.49332757 Turkish_Balikesir
0.49345489 Bashkir
0.49471362 Turkish_Northwest
0.49477598 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.49489066 Tajik_Yaghnobi
0.49505627 Tajik_Badakshan
0.49654861 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
0.49675055 Moroccan_Jew
0.49711026 Andian_B
0.49711224 Sarikoli_China
0.49715846 Italian_Jew
0.49736327 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.49926018 Tajik_Hisor
0.49942312 Yukagir_Forest
0.49968710 Turkish_Southwest
0.49980397 Akhvakh
0.49997727 Turkish_Aydin
0.50031292 Tajik_Ayni
0.50063696 Kaitag
0.50066935 Jatt_Pathak
0.50084585 Ror
0.50107082 Kabardin
0.50131139 Greek_Kos
0.50138498 Cherkes
0.50242586 Tajik_Kulob
0.50305293 Abazin
0.50362614 Darginian
0.50374892 Circassian
0.50376196 Avar
0.50384711 Kumyk
0.50388950 Tabasaran
0.50442160 Lak
0.50515376 Sephardic_Jew
0.50531633 Greek_Dodecanese
0.50534946 Kubachinian
0.50593119 Lezgin
0.50607859 Karachay
0.50621279 Romaniote_Jew
0.50625048 Ratlub
0.50638816 Chamalin
0.50658558 Balkar
0.50742032 Turkish_South
0.50764902 Adygei
0.50776919 Turkish_North
0.50781392 Tindal
0.50849673 Bagvalin
0.50868358 Tat_Dagestan_Dzhalgan
0.50884542 Libyan_Jew
0.50908787 Tsez_B
0.50962108 Tlingit
0.51005796 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.51048399 Greek_Dodecanese_Rhodes
0.51060370 Turkish_Central
0.51066147 Turkish_Adana
0.51095454 Ingushian
0.51097383 Moroccan_North
0.51106047 Chechen
0.51209099 Turkmen
0.51279116 Karata
0.51295642 Hunzib
0.51348046 Tunisian_Jew
0.51363464 Turkish_Kayseri
0.51368184 Kho_Singanali
0.51389284 North_Ossetian
0.51412890 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.51430546 Tatar_Siberian
0.51445350 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.51548149 Syrian_Jew
0.51619957 Tat_Dagestan_Nyugdi
0.51790989 Uthmankhel
0.51854071 Tarkalani
0.51857873 Bagvalin_o
0.51887387 Cypriot
0.51901076 Ossetian
0.51928198 Tat_Azerbaijan
0.51932459 Yusufzai
0.51938462 Punjabi_Jatt
0.51994465 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.52007952 Georgian_Tush
0.52215941 Ezid
0.52224320 Kalash
0.52233815 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.52263405 Pashtun_Kurram
0.52272622 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
0.52286819 Turkish_East
0.52317951 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.52321208 Greek_Cappadocia
0.52353902 Kumaoni_Brahmin
0.52363439 Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
0.52371612 Azerbaijani
0.52380414 Georgian_Khevs
0.52381214 Syrian
0.52397953 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_A
0.52420631 Tsez_A
0.52436585 Uzbek
0.52445178 Kamboj
0.52447187 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.52482263 Bukharian_Jew
0.52489801 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.52511424 Hinukh
0.52540346 West_Uttar_Pradesh_Tyagi
0.52584157 Punjabi_Sikh_India
0.52606100 Iranian_Fars
0.52614169 Lebanese_Muslim
0.52626399 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.52638496 Udi
0.52673238 Tunisian
0.52698638 EmiratiC
0.52708121 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.52708237 Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
0.52730092 Armenian_Artsakh
0.52773507 Algerian
0.52780291 Parsi_Pakistan
0.52816250 Andian_A
0.52818839 Jordanian
0.52852851 Mozabite
0.52866680 Nepali_A
0.52899644 Druze
0.52905011 Parsi_India
0.52906199 Karaite_Egypt
0.52921567 Georgian_NorthEast
0.53016575 Kurdish
0.53028579 Lebanese_Druze
0.53030665 Abkhasian_Gudauta
0.53078788 Khatri
0.53104223 Palestinian
0.53114338 Mountain_Jew_o
0.53115720 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.53121344 Iranian_Bandari
0.53133804 Burusho
0.53145104 Punjabi_Hindu_India
0.53174026 Balochi_A
0.53204835 Georgian_Jew
0.53218807 Lebanese_Christian
0.53224431 Khatri_o
0.53250526 Armenian_Syunik
0.53255675 Abkhasian
0.53285324 Georgian_Mtiuleti
0.53310047 Iraqi
0.53320594 Armenian_Gesaria
0.53323807 Armenian_Parspatunik
0.53323880 Iranian_Lor
0.53333707 Libyan
0.53339106 Kohistani
0.53391507 Brahui
0.53417407 Makrani
0.53460186 Kashmiri_Pandit
0.53473126 Ahiska
0.53492516 Kashmiri_Pakistan
0.53514281 Georgian_Kakh
0.53519023 Georgian_Kart
0.53529730 Nepali_A2
0.53539655 Georgian_Svaneti
0.53542673 Gujar_Pakistan
0.53566198 Punjabi_Muslim_India
0.53568377 Bahun
0.53594418 Turkish_Trabzon
0.53621806 Sindhi
0.53626162 BedouinA
0.53655652 Madhya_Pradesh_Rajput
0.53672455 Mountain_Jew
0.53679484 Balochi_B
0.53680278 Mansi
0.53694388 Armenian_Gurin
0.53721842 Cochin_Jew
0.53730053 Armenian_Erzurum
0.53750046 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.53768137 Brahmin_UP
0.53818403 Brahmin_Gujarat
0.53822860 Greek_Trabzon
0.53823222 Moroccan
0.53854442 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_B
0.53880453 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
0.53888252 Georgian_Meskheti
0.53890948 Armenian_Ararat
0.53903744 Armenian_Aintab
0.53912589 Iranian_Jew
0.53924690 Nogai
0.53937375 Georgian_Lechkhumi
0.53964744 Assyrian
0.53985152 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.54009740 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
0.54025692 Rajput_Rajasthan
0.54072735 Georgian_Laz
0.54100233 EmiratiB
0.54105947 Tunisian_Rbaya
0.54107514 Samaritan
0.54115702 Gujar_India
0.54161252 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.54222779 Egyptian
0.54246110 Armenian_Urfa
0.54266999 Georgian_West
0.54275103 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.54307109 Georgian_Ajar
0.54321412 Georgian_Megr
0.54321966 Brahmin_West_Bengal
0.54351927 SaudiA
0.54352197 Georgian_Imer
0.54359536 Georgian_Guria
0.54379270 Iraqi_Jew
0.54406791 Balti_o2
0.54439703 Kurdish_Jew
0.54456000 SaudiB
0.54486956 Georgian_Javakheti
0.54557163 Tunisian_Douz
0.54630922 Nepali_B
0.54652998 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.54745105 Yemenite_Amran
0.54765010 Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.54770869 Ket
0.54797372 Kshatriya
0.54807720 Uygur
0.54854889 Balti
0.54867831 Saharawi
0.54874291 Punjabi_Lahore
0.54881932 Khanty
0.54912916 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.54954147 EmiratiA
0.55149716 Karakalpak
0.55194692 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.55265286 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_C
0.55297159 Georgian_Ratcha
0.55394382 Balti_o1
0.55405948 Yemenite_Jew
0.55410698 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
0.55426345 Iyer
0.55478479 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.55487327 Hazara
0.55490459 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.55526955 Nepali_C
0.55553629 BedouinB
0.55586808 Bahun_o
0.55587475 Saudi
0.55619522 Yemenite_Mahra

[StonyArabia]

Who wants to be Afro-Asian Sami+Gypsy-Chinese(Europid race)? Middle Easterners should stop this nonsense

Only colonised Middle Easterners want to be Europeans. Middle easterners who have self-dignity and pride, and know their history, would never do such things. We Middle Easterners in the case of the Arabians, we take pride in our ancient civilizations like Kedarites, Liyhanites, Midianites, Nabataeans, Sabeans, Mineans, the list can go on. We were the only people to successfully repel the Romans, We also had our own empires the Al-Rashidun, the Ummyads, and Abbassids and the Fatamids. We also defeated the Portuguese in Oman. We made many achievements in science, technology and the arts. I am proud to be an Arabian, proud to be a Bedouin and a Middle Easterner.

[Cristiano viejo]

I am proud to be an Arabian, proud to be a Bedouin and a Middle Easterner.

And that is why you live in Canada, because you are a proud Bedouin, rotflllllllll

[kingmob]

Not true. Vast majority of MENAs are brown, South Europeans are not.
Vast majority of MENAs have non Euro features, South Europeans have, obviously, European features.


Maybe in SW Europe the contrasts are more visible, in SE not so much and that was the perspective I was using, I should have been more explicit.

[Cristiano viejo]

Maybe in SW Europe the contrasts are more visible, in SE not so much and that was the perspective I was using, I should have been more explicit.
Nonsense. Here an example https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?364158-Classify-eptr-and-spouse&p=7528774&viewfull=1#post7528774

[Marshall Theodore]

Distanceto: WHG
0.37054762 Latvian
0.37122260 Lithuanian_SZ
0.37134929 Lithuanian_PZ
0.37342454 Estonian
0.37651930 Finnish_Southeast
0.37708815 Finnish_East
0.37715015 Karelian
0.37746781 Lithuanian_VA
0.37752999 Lithuanian_VZ
0.37813796 Russian_Pskov
0.37857162 Ingrian
0.37932627 Finnish_North
0.37938827 Finnish_Central
0.37993342 Lithuanian_RA
0.38050075 Finnish_Southwest
0.38142687 Vepsian
0.38148791 Lithuanian_PA
0.38323674 Russian_Pinega
0.38492605 Belarusian
0.38499803 Russian_Kaluga
0.38550000 Swedish
0.38556247 Russian_Pinezhsky
0.38666198 Cossack_Kuban
0.38712110 Russian_Krasnoborsky
0.38754532 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.38770506 Polish_Kashubian
0.38774378 Russian_Smolensk
0.38857076 Icelandic
0.38911988 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.38949298 Russian_Tver
0.38975930 Russian_Kursk
0.38997959 Norwegian
0.39008621 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.39009601 Polish
0.39036192 Russian_Voronez
0.39051730 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.39082808 Russian_Kostroma
0.39128173 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.39169320 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.39189728 Danish
0.39305875 Russian_Belgorod
0.39334156 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.39337704 Erzya
0.39362209 Russian_Orel
0.39381283 Saami_Kola
0.39422942 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.39428502 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
0.39441967 Orcadian
0.39461806 German_Hamburg
0.39523209 Russian_Ryazan
0.39563949 Basque_Navarre_North
0.39569094 Basque_Baztan
0.39628535 Basque_Spanish
0.39640569 Basque_French
0.39651780 Basque_Araba
0.39657142 Slovakian
0.39657655 Basque_Roncal
0.39666478 German_East
0.39713674 Welsh
0.39720314 Irish
0.39727263 Basque_Biscay
0.39737479 Scottish
0.39738476 Russian_Leshukonsky
0.39747017 Czech
0.39754174 English
0.39773862 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.39794310 Basque_Gipuzkoa
0.39808482 English_Cornwall
0.39833646 Dutch
0.39873776 Moksha
0.39986473 French_Brittany
0.40016608 Basque_Soule
0.40062436 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.40110437 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.40115391 German
0.40137464 French_Chalosse
0.40219214 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.40251513 Shetlandic
0.40290593 Afrikaner
0.40333529 French_Bearn
0.40342730 French_South
0.40403144 German_Erlangen
0.40407066 Basque_Navarre_Center
0.40512306 Moldovan_o
0.40592766 Spanish_Biscay
0.40596135 BelgianA
0.40606788 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.40711091 Austrian
0.40729106 Spanish_Aragon_North
0.40755794 Hungarian
0.40762724 Slovenian
0.40860899 French_Bigorre
0.40868791 Spanish_Soria
0.40877784 French_Occitanie
0.40899979 BelgianB
0.40928252 French_Seine-Maritime
0.40949495 French_Nord
0.40973104 BelgianC
0.41012451 French_Paris
0.41099708 Croatian
0.41172774 French_Alsace
0.41184947 Komi
0.41184979 Spanish_Burgos
0.41274752 French_Auvergne
0.41274758 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.41327830 Spanish_Barcelones
0.41362968 Swiss_German
0.41388046 Saami
0.41396528 Spanish_Pirineu
0.41408775 Spanish_Cataluna
0.41498849 Spanish_Castello
0.41546547 Spanish_Cantabria
0.41549522 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.41579696 Spanish_Navarra
0.41648654 Spanish_Valencia
0.41658637 Tatar_Mishar
0.41659361 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.41704261 Spanish_Lleida
0.41747326 Spanish_Asturias
0.41806340 Swiss_French
0.41814589 Spanish_Aragon
0.41820405 Spanish_Penedes
0.41917625 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.41951462 Spanish_Girona
0.41997421 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.42003255 Spanish_Galicia
0.42049618 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.42070925 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.42123903 Spanish_Alacant
0.42150908 Bosnian
0.42180673 Spanish_Andalucia
0.42245024 Spanish_Murcia
0.42358480 Spanish_Mallorca
0.42413447 Spanish_Extremadura
0.42453446 Spanish_Menorca
0.42483238 Portuguese
0.42491996 Moldovan
0.42543260 Spanish_Eivissa
0.42602076 Spanish_Baleares
0.42619936 French_Provence
0.42643066 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.42773918 Montenegrin
0.42905014 Serbian
0.43258866 Italian_Northeast
0.43264141 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.43316259 Tatar_Kazan
0.43337412 Spanish_Canarias
0.43402867 Romanian
0.43650515 Italian_Veneto
0.43835630 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
0.43969330 Bulgarian
0.44008981 Macedonian
0.44130911 Italian_Bergamo
0.44315402 Besermyan
0.44373350 Chuvash
0.44401741 Roma_Barcelona
0.44408494 Italian_Liguria
0.44687821 Italian_Piedmont
0.44713806 Swiss_Italian
0.44736287 Italian_Lombardy
0.44738162 Gagauz
0.44874336 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
0.44896751 Udmurt
0.44947110 French_Corsica
0.45068111 Turkish_Deliorman
0.45229068 Italian_Emilia
0.45256461 Sardinian
0.45618874 Tatar_Lipka
0.45797953 Italian_Tuscany
0.45896682 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.46028567 Albanian
0.46060601 Rumelia_East
0.46061080 Greek_Macedonia
0.46098349 Turkish_Rumeli
0.46099758 Roma_Madrid
0.46295340 Greek_Thessaly
0.46501702 Mari
0.46527228 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.46575650 Italian_Umbria
0.46657262 Italian_Marche
0.46760787 Greek_Achaea
0.46803108 Roma_Bilbao
0.46820875 Greek_Arcadia
0.46825687 Sicilian_West
0.46838768 Greek_Messenia
0.46839050 Italian_Lazio
0.46911039 Greek_Elis
0.46955623 Greek_Peloponnese
0.47003666 Greek_Argolis
0.47090057 Greek_Corinthia
0.47180362 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.47337771 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.47364643 Greek_Laconia
0.47385963 Roma_Granada
0.47395773 Roma_Porto
0.47415517 Greek_Cyclades_Kea
0.47502956 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.47565975 Italian_Abruzzo
0.47579793 Italian_Molise
0.47876964 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.47951182 Greek_Izmir
0.48008730 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.48008972 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.48059387 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.48089834 Sicilian_East
0.48131328 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.48135956 Italian_Apulia
0.48185124 Maltese
0.48248799 Italian_Basilicata
0.48287353 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.48328555 Roma_Balkans
0.48337161 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.48360655 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.48417996 Greek_Apulia
0.48473957 Italian_Campania
0.48512542 Tajik_Rushan
0.48584924 Greek_Cyclades_Milos
0.48753092 Italian_Calabria
0.48906048 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.48907787 Tajik_Shugnan
0.48949257 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.49050848 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
0.49109185 Maori
0.49180201 Sephardic_Jew_o
0.49189734 Greek_Crete_Heraklion
0.49318436 Greek_Crete
0.49332757 Turkish_Balikesir
0.49345489 Bashkir
0.49471362 Turkish_Northwest
0.49477598 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.49489066 Tajik_Yaghnobi
0.49505627 Tajik_Badakshan
0.49654861 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
0.49675055 Moroccan_Jew
0.49711026 Andian_B
0.49711224 Sarikoli_China
0.49715846 Italian_Jew
0.49736327 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.49926018 Tajik_Hisor
0.49942312 Yukagir_Forest
0.49968710 Turkish_Southwest
0.49980397 Akhvakh
0.49997727 Turkish_Aydin
0.50031292 Tajik_Ayni
0.50063696 Kaitag
0.50066935 Jatt_Pathak
0.50084585 Ror
0.50107082 Kabardin
0.50131139 Greek_Kos
0.50138498 Cherkes
0.50242586 Tajik_Kulob
0.50305293 Abazin
0.50362614 Darginian
0.50374892 Circassian
0.50376196 Avar
0.50384711 Kumyk
0.50388950 Tabasaran
0.50442160 Lak
0.50515376 Sephardic_Jew
0.50531633 Greek_Dodecanese
0.50534946 Kubachinian
0.50593119 Lezgin
0.50607859 Karachay
0.50621279 Romaniote_Jew
0.50625048 Ratlub
0.50638816 Chamalin
0.50658558 Balkar
0.50742032 Turkish_South
0.50764902 Adygei
0.50776919 Turkish_North
0.50781392 Tindal
0.50849673 Bagvalin
0.50868358 Tat_Dagestan_Dzhalgan
0.50884542 Libyan_Jew
0.50908787 Tsez_B
0.50962108 Tlingit
0.51005796 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.51048399 Greek_Dodecanese_Rhodes
0.51060370 Turkish_Central
0.51066147 Turkish_Adana
0.51095454 Ingushian
0.51097383 Moroccan_North
0.51106047 Chechen
0.51209099 Turkmen
0.51279116 Karata
0.51295642 Hunzib
0.51348046 Tunisian_Jew
0.51363464 Turkish_Kayseri
0.51368184 Kho_Singanali
0.51389284 North_Ossetian
0.51412890 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.51430546 Tatar_Siberian
0.51445350 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.51548149 Syrian_Jew
0.51619957 Tat_Dagestan_Nyugdi
0.51790989 Uthmankhel
0.51854071 Tarkalani
0.51857873 Bagvalin_o
0.51887387 Cypriot
0.51901076 Ossetian
0.51928198 Tat_Azerbaijan
0.51932459 Yusufzai
0.51938462 Punjabi_Jatt
0.51994465 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.52007952 Georgian_Tush
0.52215941 Ezid
0.52224320 Kalash
0.52233815 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.52263405 Pashtun_Kurram
0.52272622 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
0.52286819 Turkish_East
0.52317951 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.52321208 Greek_Cappadocia
0.52353902 Kumaoni_Brahmin
0.52363439 Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
0.52371612 Azerbaijani
0.52380414 Georgian_Khevs
0.52381214 Syrian
0.52397953 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_A
0.52420631 Tsez_A
0.52436585 Uzbek
0.52445178 Kamboj
0.52447187 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.52482263 Bukharian_Jew
0.52489801 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.52511424 Hinukh
0.52540346 West_Uttar_Pradesh_Tyagi
0.52584157 Punjabi_Sikh_India
0.52606100 Iranian_Fars
0.52614169 Lebanese_Muslim
0.52626399 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.52638496 Udi
0.52673238 Tunisian
0.52698638 EmiratiC
0.52708121 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.52708237 Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
0.52730092 Armenian_Artsakh
0.52773507 Algerian
0.52780291 Parsi_Pakistan
0.52816250 Andian_A
0.52818839 Jordanian
0.52852851 Mozabite
0.52866680 Nepali_A
0.52899644 Druze
0.52905011 Parsi_India
0.52906199 Karaite_Egypt
0.52921567 Georgian_NorthEast
0.53016575 Kurdish
0.53028579 Lebanese_Druze
0.53030665 Abkhasian_Gudauta
0.53078788 Khatri
0.53104223 Palestinian
0.53114338 Mountain_Jew_o
0.53115720 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.53121344 Iranian_Bandari
0.53133804 Burusho
0.53145104 Punjabi_Hindu_India
0.53174026 Balochi_A
0.53204835 Georgian_Jew
0.53218807 Lebanese_Christian
0.53224431 Khatri_o
0.53250526 Armenian_Syunik
0.53255675 Abkhasian
0.53285324 Georgian_Mtiuleti
0.53310047 Iraqi
0.53320594 Armenian_Gesaria
0.53323807 Armenian_Parspatunik
0.53323880 Iranian_Lor
0.53333707 Libyan
0.53339106 Kohistani
0.53391507 Brahui
0.53417407 Makrani
0.53460186 Kashmiri_Pandit
0.53473126 Ahiska
0.53492516 Kashmiri_Pakistan
0.53514281 Georgian_Kakh
0.53519023 Georgian_Kart
0.53529730 Nepali_A2
0.53539655 Georgian_Svaneti
0.53542673 Gujar_Pakistan
0.53566198 Punjabi_Muslim_India
0.53568377 Bahun
0.53594418 Turkish_Trabzon
0.53621806 Sindhi
0.53626162 BedouinA
0.53655652 Madhya_Pradesh_Rajput
0.53672455 Mountain_Jew
0.53679484 Balochi_B
0.53680278 Mansi
0.53694388 Armenian_Gurin
0.53721842 Cochin_Jew
0.53730053 Armenian_Erzurum
0.53750046 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.53768137 Brahmin_UP
0.53818403 Brahmin_Gujarat
0.53822860 Greek_Trabzon
0.53823222 Moroccan
0.53854442 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_B
0.53880453 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
0.53888252 Georgian_Meskheti
0.53890948 Armenian_Ararat
0.53903744 Armenian_Aintab
0.53912589 Iranian_Jew
0.53924690 Nogai
0.53937375 Georgian_Lechkhumi
0.53964744 Assyrian
0.53985152 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.54009740 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
0.54025692 Rajput_Rajasthan
0.54072735 Georgian_Laz
0.54100233 EmiratiB
0.54105947 Tunisian_Rbaya
0.54107514 Samaritan
0.54115702 Gujar_India
0.54161252 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.54222779 Egyptian
0.54246110 Armenian_Urfa
0.54266999 Georgian_West
0.54275103 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.54307109 Georgian_Ajar
0.54321412 Georgian_Megr
0.54321966 Brahmin_West_Bengal
0.54351927 SaudiA
0.54352197 Georgian_Imer
0.54359536 Georgian_Guria
0.54379270 Iraqi_Jew
0.54406791 Balti_o2
0.54439703 Kurdish_Jew
0.54456000 SaudiB
0.54486956 Georgian_Javakheti
0.54557163 Tunisian_Douz
0.54630922 Nepali_B
0.54652998 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.54745105 Yemenite_Amran
0.54765010 Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.54770869 Ket
0.54797372 Kshatriya
0.54807720 Uygur
0.54854889 Balti
0.54867831 Saharawi
0.54874291 Punjabi_Lahore
0.54881932 Khanty
0.54912916 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.54954147 EmiratiA
0.55149716 Karakalpak
0.55194692 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.55265286 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_C
0.55297159 Georgian_Ratcha
0.55394382 Balti_o1
0.55405948 Yemenite_Jew
0.55410698 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
0.55426345 Iyer
0.55478479 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.55487327 Hazara
0.55490459 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.55526955 Nepali_C
0.55553629 BedouinB
0.55586808 Bahun_o
0.55587475 Saudi
0.55619522 Yemenite_Mahra

As expected, even sephardic jews are closer to WHGs than georgians

[StonyArabia]

And that is why you live in Canada, because you are a proud Bedouin, rotflllllllll

Yeah but this does not mean I forget my origins. On the contrary this makes me even stronger in preserving my origins, culture and bloodline. Plus I am in Canada by circumstances that have wrecked havoc upon the ME, noticeably the illegal Iraq war, the destabilisation of Syria and Yemen, the war in Libya. Not to mention that many Arabian Canadians have contributed well to Canada despite their small numbers. Plus Canada was historically an immigrant nation. That said if the Mideast becomes stable, and I find good job, I would gladly move. When I was in Jordan and Oman last year, I felt more comfortable there, the people look more or less similar to me, same culture, same language and there was a sense of kinship and brotherhood that you really don’t see here in “multicultural” societies. Taking pride in my Bedouin/Arabian heritage is giving my kids Arabian names, make sure they speak Arabic at home, and know where we come from and our history. Just like European Canadians do, and other groups. It’s only colonized morons ME who don’t take pride and want to be European or Western and assimilate culturally and racially or that’s what they want but the reality Europeans or Westerners will never accept them. We take pride in our culture, origin, and history it does not mean hating others.

[kingmob]

Nonsense.


Better to refrain from being absolutist on things you are clueless about, eg the East Med.

[Cristiano viejo]

Better to refrain from being absolutist on things you are clueless about, eg the East Med.

Dont bore me. Your skin colour is to light years of MENAs, that is my point.

I know you are a MENA lover, but facts are facts, live with it.

[kingmob]

Dont bore me. Your skin colour is to light years of MENAs, that is my point.

I know you are a MENA lover, but facts are facts, live with it.


1st) I am pretty common/passable as NE Anatolian Turk (minus a couple of traits like my nose) and in other parts of Turkey and S. Caucasus, of course.

2nd) "MENA" lover? You do understand I am 50% certified West Asian and with a West Asian haplo branch since the BA, right? So I am a lover of my own kind? Sounds legit.

[vader]

Because WHGs are mixed race, they are far from present day peoples LMAO

They are far, yes. But heres an interesting video if you want to see how they score with modern dna tests


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozFMr1gQy5A

The reason he gets these %'s is bc obviously these are the pops with the most whg dna, it doesnt mean they were like these modern pops.

[Eurafricanid]

Bruh, no, that's because it's an ancient sample that doesn't exist anymore, because they mixed with ENF and WSH

[Jana]

Because WHGs are mixed race, they are far from present day peoples LMAO

They are not mixed race. They were hyper northern people and much further from non Europeans than modern Euros are.
Modern Europeans are a mix race compared to them.

[Cristiano viejo]

1st) I am pretty common/passable as NE Anatolian Turk (minus a couple of traits like my nose) and in other parts of Turkey and S. Caucasus, of course.
hahahaha ;)


2nd) "MENA" lover? You do understand I am 50% certified West Asian and with a West Asian haplo branch since the BA, right? So I am a lover of my own kind? Sounds legit.
so you consider Greeks as MENAs??

[vader]

They are not mixed race. They were hyper northern people and much further from non Europeans than modern Euros are.
Modern Europeans are a mix race compared to them.

They weren't "hyper northern people" they were hyper european people. Found in all of west europe... obviously first in southwest probably even before north had them going by how people migrated so long ago. Estimated WHG came from the middle east at about 20-30 ybp. Northerners had more of that DNA bc it was more isolated up in Scandinavia and North East and had less of closeness to other ancient civilizations coming in and diluting... so I can see why people can mislabel, or think WHG were "northern" people, but not true. They are genetically very northern as in they are indigenous european without any other admixtures, yes.

[Jana]

They weren't "hyper northern people" they were hyper european people. Found in all of west europe... obviously first in southwest probably even before north. Northerners had more of that DNA bc it was more isolated up in Scandinavia and North East so I can see why people can mislabel, or think WHG were "northern" people, but not true. They are genetically very northern as in they are indigenous european without any other admixtures, yes.

By hyper northern I obviously meant genetically and yes, lookswise (heavily CM in phenotype). Except their lighter skin modern Balts are lookswise closest to them.
but yes, even Sicily was inhabited by WHG in the past.

and today's Iberians have high WHG count considering they are south Euro.

[Jana]

so you consider Greeks as MENAs??

Greeks are partly West Asian (Pontics, Capaddocchians, Cypriots).
they are transcontinental group but in majority European.

[kingmob]

so you consider Greeks as MENAs??


Intermediates.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_Region

[Cristiano viejo]

Greeks are partly West Asian (Pontics, Capaddocchians, Cypriots).
they are transcontinental group but in majority European.

Any European is partly West Asian.

[Jana]

Any European is partly West Asian.

Greeks are only European ethnic group which have sub groups of their ethnicity that are genetically native West Asian and not European.

[Cristiano viejo]

Greeks are only European ethnic group which have sub groups of their ethnicity that are genetically native West Asian and not European.

But any European gets West Asian if is tested.

[vader]

But any European gets West Asian if is tested.

any european technically has west asian blood from EEF accumulation, and even older groups coming out of anatolia and further south of it. So you're partially correct. But in a modern sense, most euros do not have modern west asian blood, no.

[Cristiano viejo]

any european technically has west asian blood from EEF accumulation, and even older groups coming out of anatolia and further south of it. So you're partially correct. But in a modern sense, most euros do not have modern west asian blood, no.
Neither the Gricos, not?

[Tooting Carmen]

Greeks are only European ethnic group which have sub groups of their ethnicity that are genetically native West Asian and not European.

Yes, but aren't Cypriots and Pontians really just Hellenized natives, i.e. they aren't really Greek by blood?

[Beowulf]

Yes, but aren't Cypriots and Pontians really just Hellenized natives, i.e. they aren't really Greek by blood?

cypriots have a high greek admixture at least is what i've seen in cypriots dna test results

[vader]

Neither the Gricos, not?

depends the region.

well greeks prefer tepecik over barcin which tells me they def. have some more levantine type admixture than the typical euro and that goes for I think every greek population doesn't matter if it is mainland or island. Mainlanders have less Levant PPNB and Iran Ganj type ancestry too, but it exists just at lower admixture. Mainlanders get more steppe which is why they plot better with other euros in comparison to islanders who plot with a bigger cline to levant pops.

[HectorOfTroy]

They weren't "hyper northern people" they were hyper european people. Found in all of west europe... obviously first in southwest probably even before north had them going by how people migrated so long ago. Northerners had more of that DNA bc it was more isolated up in Scandinavia and North East and had less of closeness to other ancient civilizations coming in and diluting... so I can see why people can mislabel, or think WHG were "northern" people, but not true. They are genetically very northern as in they are indigenous european without any other admixtures, yes.

Modern Europeans are NEF/EEF (MENA farmer) + WHG + Steppe. Steppe people are mixed with CHG so not purely european, NEF are basically archaic non semitic levantines I think. only WHG is true pure european.

[vader]

Modern Europeans are NEF/EEF (MENA farmer) + WHG + Steppe. Steppe people are mixed with CHG so not purely european, NEF are nearly same as levantines. only WHG is true pure european.

yes, I know..

[HectorOfTroy]

yes, I know..

Actually I take that back, maybe Near Eastern Farmers count as genetically european. Just far away from Northern Europeans at the same time. I remember seeing a genetic plot of modern euros and MENAs with archaic euros. NEF's were closer to europeans than MENAS. They were basically just a hyper southern european group

[Marshall Theodore]

Modern Europeans are NEF/EEF (MENA farmer) + WHG + Steppe. Steppe people are mixed with CHG so not purely european, NEF are basically archaic non semitic levantines I think. only WHG is true pure european.

The CHG from Steppe explains why North Italians have higher West Asian than Iberians and Southern French? or its pos-neolithic admix?

[Jingle Bell]

The CHG from Steppe explains why North Italians have higher West Asian than Iberians and Southern French? or its pos-neolithic admix?

CHG from Italy comes from Roman Times, South Italians have very few Steppe admix but a lot of CHG
Can be from Greek, Levantine, Anatolian and other influences

[khanx34]

I think ANF/EEF is of semitic origin. ANF ​​and my distance from the natufian component are the same and I have 1/8 Arab sayyid ancestors, my haplogroup is J1...

Distance to: Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
0.12499509 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
0.22184249 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
0.33574926 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.33822432 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.37310652 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.42488939 Baltics_Narva_Hunter-Gatherer_Baltic_LTU_Narva
0.44941359 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.45274731 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728
0.45965913 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
0.49526897 West_Siberia_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Tyumen_HG
0.49741415 Southeast_Asia_Hoabinhian_Hunter-Gatherer_LAO_Hoabinhian
0.57798641 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon
0.62167794 Southeast_Asia_Neolithic_Farmer_VNM_N
0.62289868 Tibetan_Plateau_Late_Neolithic_NPL_Chokhopani_2700 BP
0.62666821 South_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Liangdao2_N
0.64028791 Holocene_Beringian_RUS_Old_Bering_Ekven
0.65234661 North_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Boshan_N
0.65414698 Amur_Basin_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.65478787 Australian_Aborigine_AUS_Willandra_Lakes_4000BP
0.67942623 Siberia_Uralic-like_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.68645832 East_Africa_Hunter_Gatherer_ETH_4500BP
0.68819964 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.72925719 Amerindian_BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.73047800 Papuan-Melanesian_VUT_2300BP_all
0.77384315 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP

Distance to: Bokoto
0.18755012 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
0.18856905 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.19581080 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.19715834 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
0.22061471 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
0.22754639 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.32638863 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: I8728
0.38708354 West_Siberia_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Tyumen_HG
0.41663183 Southeast_Asia_Hoabinhian_Hunter-Gatherer_LAO_Hoabinhian
0.41974686 Baltics_Narva_Hunter-Gatherer_Baltic_LTU_Narva
0.43120286 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.47182135 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
0.51326270 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon
0.56036265 Tibetan_Plateau_Late_Neolithic_NPL_Chokhopani_2700 BP
0.56229760 Southeast_Asia_Neolithic_Farmer_VNM_N
0.56908828 South_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Liangdao2_N
0.56988833 Holocene_Beringian_RUS_Old_Bering_Ekven
0.59314190 North_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Boshan_N
0.59851448 Amur_Basin_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.60582403 Australian_Aborigine_AUS_Willandra_Lakes_4000BP
0.62047095 Siberia_Uralic-like_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.64280799 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.64370591 East_Africa_Hunter_Gatherer_ETH_4500BP
0.66638345 Amerindian_BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.68573635 Papuan-Melanesian_VUT_2300BP_all
0.73264938 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
0.74881562 West_Africa_Hunter-Gatherer_CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP
0.88484458 South_Africa_Hunter-Gatherer_ZAF_2100BP

how much east asian + siberian genes do you have ? and caucasian ?

[Italicus]

The CHG from Steppe explains why North Italians have higher West Asian than Iberians and Southern French? or its pos-neolithic admix?

Greeks and Levantines from migration during the Roman empire.

[khanx34]

East asian %1 bro :D

caucasus ?

[Jana]

The CHG from Steppe explains why North Italians have higher West Asian than Iberians and Southern French? or its pos-neolithic admix?

Italic tribes before Imperial age (from further south like Rome) had lower CHG than modern North Italians and higher WHG.


Target: ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA
Distance: 0.0448% / 0.04477028
69.4 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N
19.5 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
7.3 WHG=BEL_Loschbour
3.8 CHG=GEO_CHG


Target: ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
Distance: 0.0431% / 0.04311800
69.4 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N
14.4 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
9.1 WHG=BEL_Loschbour
7.1 CHG=GEO_CHG

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 0.0364% / 0.03635708
63.3 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N
20.6 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
13.3 CHG=GEO_CHG
2.8 WHG=BEL_Loschbour


Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 0.0423% / 0.04231222
64.8 ENF=Anatolia_Barcin_N
20.8 EHG=RUS_Karelia_HG
10.9 CHG=GEO_CHG
3.5 WHG=BEL_Loschbour

[khanx34]

%43 dodecad12b for

are you kurd ?

[vader]

My mom's sides tepecik ancestry (5.6% about) probably is why she plots near northern Italy, could be roman ancestry. Romans had the algarve for longer than northern areas

[HectorOfTroy]

I think ANF/EEF is of semitic origin. ANF ​​and my distance from the natufian component are the same and I have 1/8 Arab sayyid ancestors, my haplogroup is J1...


Natufian is pre semitic

[Lplius]

I think it was written to you more than once that you write unfactual nonsense. Move on.

Fact 1: CHG is present in all Europeans since the bronze age.
Fact 2: CHG peaks in the Caucasus.
Fact 3: CHG is a fundamental part of the Indo-European peoples, our most direct ancestors who made us what we are today.
Fact 4: European farmers (ENF) are Levantine farmers with slightly more WHG.
Fact 5: Levantine farmers peak in Arabia.
Fact 6: Georgians and Northern Europeans are genetically equidistant to ENF.
Fact 7: Both heavy CHG and ENF peoples produce some phenotypes capable of passing in Europe and others only in West Asia.
Fact 8: Northern Caucasian peoples are European.
Fact 9: If you accept Sardinians, Cypriots or any swarthy European as white then you also have to accept that some Georgians are white.
Fact 10: Kadyrov passes in Europe while Mantzoukas doesn't.
Fact 11: If the children of the first grew up in Germany they'd be considered white Europeans but the children of the second as MENAs.
Fact 12: You're in denial of factual evidence.

[Lplius]

Distanceto: WHG
0.37054762 Latvian
0.37122260 Lithuanian_SZ
0.37134929 Lithuanian_PZ
0.37342454 Estonian
0.37651930 Finnish_Southeast
0.37708815 Finnish_East
0.37715015 Karelian
0.37746781 Lithuanian_VA
0.37752999 Lithuanian_VZ
0.37813796 Russian_Pskov
0.37857162 Ingrian
0.37932627 Finnish_North
0.37938827 Finnish_Central
0.37993342 Lithuanian_RA
0.38050075 Finnish_Southwest
0.38142687 Vepsian
0.38148791 Lithuanian_PA
0.38323674 Russian_Pinega
0.38492605 Belarusian
0.38499803 Russian_Kaluga
0.38550000 Swedish
0.38556247 Russian_Pinezhsky
0.38666198 Cossack_Kuban
0.38712110 Russian_Krasnoborsky
0.38754532 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.38770506 Polish_Kashubian
0.38774378 Russian_Smolensk
0.38857076 Icelandic
0.38911988 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.38949298 Russian_Tver
0.38975930 Russian_Kursk
0.38997959 Norwegian
0.39008621 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.39009601 Polish
0.39036192 Russian_Voronez
0.39051730 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.39082808 Russian_Kostroma
0.39128173 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.39169320 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.39189728 Danish
0.39305875 Russian_Belgorod
0.39334156 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.39337704 Erzya
0.39362209 Russian_Orel
0.39381283 Saami_Kola
0.39422942 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.39428502 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
0.39441967 Orcadian
0.39461806 German_Hamburg
0.39523209 Russian_Ryazan
0.39563949 Basque_Navarre_North
0.39569094 Basque_Baztan
0.39628535 Basque_Spanish
0.39640569 Basque_French
0.39651780 Basque_Araba
0.39657142 Slovakian
0.39657655 Basque_Roncal
0.39666478 German_East
0.39713674 Welsh
0.39720314 Irish
0.39727263 Basque_Biscay
0.39737479 Scottish
0.39738476 Russian_Leshukonsky
0.39747017 Czech
0.39754174 English
0.39773862 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.39794310 Basque_Gipuzkoa
0.39808482 English_Cornwall
0.39833646 Dutch
0.39873776 Moksha
0.39986473 French_Brittany
0.40016608 Basque_Soule
0.40062436 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.40110437 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.40115391 German
0.40137464 French_Chalosse
0.40219214 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.40251513 Shetlandic
0.40290593 Afrikaner
0.40333529 French_Bearn
0.40342730 French_South
0.40403144 German_Erlangen
0.40407066 Basque_Navarre_Center
0.40512306 Moldovan_o
0.40592766 Spanish_Biscay
0.40596135 BelgianA
0.40606788 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.40711091 Austrian
0.40729106 Spanish_Aragon_North
0.40755794 Hungarian
0.40762724 Slovenian
0.40860899 French_Bigorre
0.40868791 Spanish_Soria
0.40877784 French_Occitanie
0.40899979 BelgianB
0.40928252 French_Seine-Maritime
0.40949495 French_Nord
0.40973104 BelgianC
0.41012451 French_Paris
0.41099708 Croatian
0.41172774 French_Alsace
0.41184947 Komi
0.41184979 Spanish_Burgos
0.41274752 French_Auvergne
0.41274758 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.41327830 Spanish_Barcelones
0.41362968 Swiss_German
0.41388046 Saami
0.41396528 Spanish_Pirineu
0.41408775 Spanish_Cataluna
0.41498849 Spanish_Castello
0.41546547 Spanish_Cantabria
0.41549522 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.41579696 Spanish_Navarra
0.41648654 Spanish_Valencia
0.41658637 Tatar_Mishar
0.41659361 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.41704261 Spanish_Lleida
0.41747326 Spanish_Asturias
0.41806340 Swiss_French
0.41814589 Spanish_Aragon
0.41820405 Spanish_Penedes
0.41917625 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.41951462 Spanish_Girona
0.41997421 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.42003255 Spanish_Galicia
0.42049618 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.42070925 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.42123903 Spanish_Alacant
0.42150908 Bosnian
0.42180673 Spanish_Andalucia
0.42245024 Spanish_Murcia
0.42358480 Spanish_Mallorca
0.42413447 Spanish_Extremadura
0.42453446 Spanish_Menorca
0.42483238 Portuguese
0.42491996 Moldovan
0.42543260 Spanish_Eivissa
0.42602076 Spanish_Baleares
0.42619936 French_Provence
0.42643066 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.42773918 Montenegrin
0.42905014 Serbian
0.43258866 Italian_Northeast
0.43264141 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.43316259 Tatar_Kazan
0.43337412 Spanish_Canarias
0.43402867 Romanian
0.43650515 Italian_Veneto
0.43835630 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
0.43969330 Bulgarian
0.44008981 Macedonian
0.44130911 Italian_Bergamo
0.44315402 Besermyan
0.44373350 Chuvash
0.44401741 Roma_Barcelona
0.44408494 Italian_Liguria
0.44687821 Italian_Piedmont
0.44713806 Swiss_Italian
0.44736287 Italian_Lombardy
0.44738162 Gagauz
0.44874336 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
0.44896751 Udmurt
0.44947110 French_Corsica
0.45068111 Turkish_Deliorman
0.45229068 Italian_Emilia
0.45256461 Sardinian
0.45618874 Tatar_Lipka
0.45797953 Italian_Tuscany
0.45896682 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.46028567 Albanian
0.46060601 Rumelia_East
0.46061080 Greek_Macedonia
0.46098349 Turkish_Rumeli
0.46099758 Roma_Madrid
0.46295340 Greek_Thessaly
0.46501702 Mari
0.46527228 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.46575650 Italian_Umbria
0.46657262 Italian_Marche
0.46760787 Greek_Achaea
0.46803108 Roma_Bilbao
0.46820875 Greek_Arcadia
0.46825687 Sicilian_West
0.46838768 Greek_Messenia
0.46839050 Italian_Lazio
0.46911039 Greek_Elis
0.46955623 Greek_Peloponnese
0.47003666 Greek_Argolis
0.47090057 Greek_Corinthia
0.47180362 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.47337771 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.47364643 Greek_Laconia
0.47385963 Roma_Granada
0.47395773 Roma_Porto
0.47415517 Greek_Cyclades_Kea
0.47502956 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.47565975 Italian_Abruzzo
0.47579793 Italian_Molise
0.47876964 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.47951182 Greek_Izmir
0.48008730 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.48008972 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.48059387 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.48089834 Sicilian_East
0.48131328 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.48135956 Italian_Apulia
0.48185124 Maltese
0.48248799 Italian_Basilicata
0.48287353 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.48328555 Roma_Balkans
0.48337161 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.48360655 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.48417996 Greek_Apulia
0.48473957 Italian_Campania
0.48512542 Tajik_Rushan
0.48584924 Greek_Cyclades_Milos
0.48753092 Italian_Calabria
0.48906048 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.48907787 Tajik_Shugnan
0.48949257 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.49050848 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
0.49109185 Maori
0.49180201 Sephardic_Jew_o
0.49189734 Greek_Crete_Heraklion
0.49318436 Greek_Crete
0.49332757 Turkish_Balikesir
0.49345489 Bashkir
0.49471362 Turkish_Northwest
0.49477598 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.49489066 Tajik_Yaghnobi
0.49505627 Tajik_Badakshan
0.49654861 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
0.49675055 Moroccan_Jew
0.49711026 Andian_B
0.49711224 Sarikoli_China
0.49715846 Italian_Jew
0.49736327 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.49926018 Tajik_Hisor
0.49942312 Yukagir_Forest
0.49968710 Turkish_Southwest
0.49980397 Akhvakh
0.49997727 Turkish_Aydin
0.50031292 Tajik_Ayni
0.50063696 Kaitag
0.50066935 Jatt_Pathak
0.50084585 Ror
0.50107082 Kabardin
0.50131139 Greek_Kos
0.50138498 Cherkes
0.50242586 Tajik_Kulob
0.50305293 Abazin
0.50362614 Darginian
0.50374892 Circassian
0.50376196 Avar
0.50384711 Kumyk
0.50388950 Tabasaran
0.50442160 Lak
0.50515376 Sephardic_Jew
0.50531633 Greek_Dodecanese
0.50534946 Kubachinian
0.50593119 Lezgin
0.50607859 Karachay
0.50621279 Romaniote_Jew
0.50625048 Ratlub
0.50638816 Chamalin
0.50658558 Balkar
0.50742032 Turkish_South
0.50764902 Adygei
0.50776919 Turkish_North
0.50781392 Tindal
0.50849673 Bagvalin
0.50868358 Tat_Dagestan_Dzhalgan
0.50884542 Libyan_Jew
0.50908787 Tsez_B
0.50962108 Tlingit
0.51005796 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.51048399 Greek_Dodecanese_Rhodes
0.51060370 Turkish_Central
0.51066147 Turkish_Adana
0.51095454 Ingushian
0.51097383 Moroccan_North
0.51106047 Chechen
0.51209099 Turkmen
0.51279116 Karata
0.51295642 Hunzib
0.51348046 Tunisian_Jew
0.51363464 Turkish_Kayseri
0.51368184 Kho_Singanali
0.51389284 North_Ossetian
0.51412890 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.51430546 Tatar_Siberian
0.51445350 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.51548149 Syrian_Jew
0.51619957 Tat_Dagestan_Nyugdi
0.51790989 Uthmankhel
0.51854071 Tarkalani
0.51857873 Bagvalin_o
0.51887387 Cypriot
0.51901076 Ossetian
0.51928198 Tat_Azerbaijan
0.51932459 Yusufzai
0.51938462 Punjabi_Jatt
0.51994465 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.52007952 Georgian_Tush
0.52215941 Ezid
0.52224320 Kalash
0.52233815 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.52263405 Pashtun_Kurram
0.52272622 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
0.52286819 Turkish_East
0.52317951 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.52321208 Greek_Cappadocia
0.52353902 Kumaoni_Brahmin
0.52363439 Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
0.52371612 Azerbaijani
0.52380414 Georgian_Khevs
0.52381214 Syrian
0.52397953 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_A
0.52420631 Tsez_A
0.52436585 Uzbek
0.52445178 Kamboj
0.52447187 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.52482263 Bukharian_Jew
0.52489801 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.52511424 Hinukh
0.52540346 West_Uttar_Pradesh_Tyagi
0.52584157 Punjabi_Sikh_India
0.52606100 Iranian_Fars
0.52614169 Lebanese_Muslim
0.52626399 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.52638496 Udi
0.52673238 Tunisian
0.52698638 EmiratiC
0.52708121 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.52708237 Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
0.52730092 Armenian_Artsakh
0.52773507 Algerian
0.52780291 Parsi_Pakistan
0.52816250 Andian_A
0.52818839 Jordanian
0.52852851 Mozabite
0.52866680 Nepali_A
0.52899644 Druze
0.52905011 Parsi_India
0.52906199 Karaite_Egypt
0.52921567 Georgian_NorthEast
0.53016575 Kurdish
0.53028579 Lebanese_Druze
0.53030665 Abkhasian_Gudauta
0.53078788 Khatri
0.53104223 Palestinian
0.53114338 Mountain_Jew_o
0.53115720 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.53121344 Iranian_Bandari
0.53133804 Burusho
0.53145104 Punjabi_Hindu_India
0.53174026 Balochi_A
0.53204835 Georgian_Jew
0.53218807 Lebanese_Christian
0.53224431 Khatri_o
0.53250526 Armenian_Syunik
0.53255675 Abkhasian
0.53285324 Georgian_Mtiuleti
0.53310047 Iraqi
0.53320594 Armenian_Gesaria
0.53323807 Armenian_Parspatunik
0.53323880 Iranian_Lor
0.53333707 Libyan
0.53339106 Kohistani
0.53391507 Brahui
0.53417407 Makrani
0.53460186 Kashmiri_Pandit
0.53473126 Ahiska
0.53492516 Kashmiri_Pakistan
0.53514281 Georgian_Kakh
0.53519023 Georgian_Kart
0.53529730 Nepali_A2
0.53539655 Georgian_Svaneti
0.53542673 Gujar_Pakistan
0.53566198 Punjabi_Muslim_India
0.53568377 Bahun
0.53594418 Turkish_Trabzon
0.53621806 Sindhi
0.53626162 BedouinA
0.53655652 Madhya_Pradesh_Rajput
0.53672455 Mountain_Jew
0.53679484 Balochi_B
0.53680278 Mansi
0.53694388 Armenian_Gurin
0.53721842 Cochin_Jew
0.53730053 Armenian_Erzurum
0.53750046 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.53768137 Brahmin_UP
0.53818403 Brahmin_Gujarat
0.53822860 Greek_Trabzon
0.53823222 Moroccan
0.53854442 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_B
0.53880453 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
0.53888252 Georgian_Meskheti
0.53890948 Armenian_Ararat
0.53903744 Armenian_Aintab
0.53912589 Iranian_Jew
0.53924690 Nogai
0.53937375 Georgian_Lechkhumi
0.53964744 Assyrian
0.53985152 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.54009740 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
0.54025692 Rajput_Rajasthan
0.54072735 Georgian_Laz
0.54100233 EmiratiB
0.54105947 Tunisian_Rbaya
0.54107514 Samaritan
0.54115702 Gujar_India
0.54161252 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.54222779 Egyptian
0.54246110 Armenian_Urfa
0.54266999 Georgian_West
0.54275103 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.54307109 Georgian_Ajar
0.54321412 Georgian_Megr
0.54321966 Brahmin_West_Bengal
0.54351927 SaudiA
0.54352197 Georgian_Imer
0.54359536 Georgian_Guria
0.54379270 Iraqi_Jew
0.54406791 Balti_o2
0.54439703 Kurdish_Jew
0.54456000 SaudiB
0.54486956 Georgian_Javakheti
0.54557163 Tunisian_Douz
0.54630922 Nepali_B
0.54652998 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.54745105 Yemenite_Amran
0.54765010 Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.54770869 Ket
0.54797372 Kshatriya
0.54807720 Uygur
0.54854889 Balti
0.54867831 Saharawi
0.54874291 Punjabi_Lahore
0.54881932 Khanty
0.54912916 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.54954147 EmiratiA
0.55149716 Karakalpak
0.55194692 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.55265286 Nepali_Indo-Aryan_C
0.55297159 Georgian_Ratcha
0.55394382 Balti_o1
0.55405948 Yemenite_Jew
0.55410698 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
0.55426345 Iyer
0.55478479 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.55487327 Hazara
0.55490459 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.55526955 Nepali_C
0.55553629 BedouinB
0.55586808 Bahun_o
0.55587475 Saudi
0.55619522 Yemenite_Mahra

Even if you accept that WHG = white, where do you draw the line? Because I see some native Euros below Jews, Gypsies and semi-mongoloids.
Can't other ancestral populations produce white phenotypes?

[Lplius]

And even if they are the "parents", in some way, the "child" isn't the parents, and it's very clear who matches more ENF and who doesn't

This is like saying that the children of two mulattos born in Europe are 100% European and white because none of his parents is pure black.
ENF is closer to Middle Easterns and North Africans than to the majority of Europeans. Deal with it.

[Ænglishman]

Fact 1: CHG is present in all Europeans since the bronze age.
Fact 2: CHG peaks in the Caucasus.
Fact 3: CHG is a fundamental part of the Indo-European peoples, our most direct ancestors who made us what we are today.
Fact 4: European farmers (ENF) are Levantine farmers with slightly more WHG.
Fact 5: Levantine farmers peak in Arabia.
Fact 6: Georgians and Northern Europeans are genetically equidistant to ENF.
Fact 7: Both heavy CHG and ENF peoples produce some phenotypes capable of passing in Europe and others only in West Asia.
Fact 8: Northern Caucasian peoples are European.
Fact 9: If you accept Sardinians, Cypriots or any swarthy European as white then you also have to accept that some Georgians are white.
Fact 10: Kadyrov passes in Europe while Mantzoukas doesn't.
Fact 11: If the children of the first grew up in Germany they'd be considered white Europeans but the children of the second as MENAs.
Fact 12: You're in denial of factual evidence.

Dude, you have some out of date information. ANF isn't just levantine farmer plus WHG just as CHG isn't exactly the same thing as Iran neolithic plus ANE. There is such a thing as genetic drift you know, the same reason all these populations aren't just African + 3-4% Neanderthal. If you take out the North African like stuff from Levant and then add an equal amount of WHG as exists in ANF it's still closest to Levant 116457. Yes CHG is integral to Europeans I personally think CHG is "cooler" than ANF. But every population that carries large amounts of CHG also carries significant non-European ancestry on top of it. And Just as I would never consider somone whom is 100% ANF white and I don't personally consider Sardinians white, you can't consider a population that is 66.5-85% MENA European just because some of them have light skin. The only way you can make a population carry that much CHG and still be European is if they also have high WHG a lot of their CHG comes from WSH and have very low ANF. Which would really just end up being a weird kind of Southern European and would be almost as distant to the same Caucasians we are talking about as other Europeans are. 116460. Even somebody with 40% CHG like this ( close to the same amount Caucasians carry ) still isn't even vaguely close to Georgians 116459.

[Jana]

Fact 1: CHG is present in all Europeans since the bronze age.
Irrelevant. It's far more widespread in west Asia.

quotegFact 2: CHG peaks in the Caucasus.
In Georgia which is West Asian.

Fact 3: CHG is a fundamental part of the Indo-European peoples, our most direct ancestors who made us what we are today.
Ours? You're obviously brown.

Fact 4: European farmers (ENF) are Levantine farmers with slightly more WHG.
No. And it is not slightly. ENF has significant WHG input. You claims are anyhow irrelevant since every component can be modeled as mix of something. What matters is that ENF peaks in Europe and is far more widespread in Europe than in middle east unlike CHG.

Fact 5: Levantine farmers peak in Arabia.
Arabs have several times higher CHG than ENF input. Deal with it.

Fact 8: Northern Caucasian peoples are European.
They are absolutely not and no European considers them as such.

Fact 9: If you accept Sardinians, Cypriots or any swarthy European as white then you also have to accept that some Georgians are white.
Most of Georgians and other Caucasians are swarthy, thus Russians who are actual whites call them churka which is a slur meaning dark. In any case, Caucasians are not particularly dark compared to southern Europans and many look white but that is again irrelevant. They are not European, simple as that.

Fact 10: Kadyrov passes in Europe while Mantzoukas doesn't.
Irrelevant. You cherrypicked American of extremely atypical looks who could be, for all we know, ancestrally whatever, or an Anatolian Greek who are, like Chechens, West Asians.

Fact 11: If the children of the first grew up in Germany they'd be considered white Europeans but the children of the second as MENAs.
Chimaev grew up in Sweden and he is surely seen as brown MENA.

Fact 12: You're in denial of factual evidence.
I'm European, unlike you. And you will never be accepted as one of us, no matter how many cherrypicked blond orientals you post.

[kingmob]

Fact 10: Kadyrov passes in Europe while Mantzoukas doesn't.
Fact 11: If the children of the first grew up in Germany they'd be considered white Europeans but the children of the second as MENAs.



Mantzoukas is part gypsy (last name -oukas) so he should not be considered as a benchmark.


Georgians are genetically and culturally West Asians throughout the history (part or proxy satellite ping ponging between Byzantines and Persians, then Turks), Southern Caucasus was never part of Europe under any geopolitical or historical model.

[placebo]

But any European gets West Asian if is tested.

it’s not like what u think cv. anatolian greeks, pontic greeks and cypriots are hellenized people not greek. (genetically, probably they are culturally fully greek idk) i know all christians = white, and all muslims = sandnigger to u but all of them genetically quite distant from mainland greeks even “sandnigger” albanians and balkan and most anatolian turks are more closer to mainlanders.

[Eurafricanid]

This is like saying that the children of two mulattos born in Europe are 100% European and white because none of his parents is pure black.
ENF is closer to Middle Easterns and North Africans than to the majority of Europeans. Deal with it.

You're making a strawman here, this is not the point, I wasn't talking about where they were "born", I was talking about where it peaks, and it's not in west asia.

And, no It's not closer to middle easterners and north africans, BTW Italian jews do have european admixture


Distance to: ENF
0.07938021 Sardinian
0.11819864 Italian_Jew
0.11876964 French_Corsica
0.11879376 Italian_Campania
0.11897222 Italian_Calabria
0.11918227 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.11983794 Italian_Apulia
0.12001380 Italian_Lazio
0.12009072 Sicilian_East
0.12075342 Italian_Basilicata
0.12127950 Romaniote_Jew
0.12254346 Maltese
0.12269966 Sephardic_Jew
0.12299342 Greek_Dodecanese
0.12345867 Italian_Abruzzo
0.12346224 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.12350994 Greek_Kos
0.12449445 Cypriot
0.12467485 Italian_Molise
0.12501500 Italian_Umbria
0.12502347 Sicilian_West
0.12527558 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.12630516 Italian_Marche
0.12684649 Greek_Izmir
0.12743825 Greek_Crete
0.12768383 Tunisian_Jew
0.12856898 Greek_Laconia
0.12872113 Italian_Tuscany
0.12877689 Greek_Corinthia
0.12889388 Moroccan_Jew
0.12945824 Greek_Argolis
0.12948560 Greek_Peloponnese
0.12957252 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.13054529 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.13096543 Greek_Achaea
0.13124215 Greek_Arcadia
0.13145208 Libyan_Jew
0.13174947 Greek_Elis
0.13188862 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.13241434 Greek_Messenia
0.13359705 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.13368947 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.13393578 Italian_Lombardy
0.13416091 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.13477834 Italian_Piedmont
0.13506540 Italian_Bergamo
0.13512636 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.13514827 Greek_Thessaly
0.13518363 Albanian
0.13551628 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.13575726 Sephardic_Jew_o
0.13748521 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.13963898 Swiss_Italian
0.13970969 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.13995164 Lebanese_Christian
0.14058868 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.14067531 Italian_Liguria
0.14092970 Greek_Macedonia
0.14104674 Syrian_Jew
0.14169612 Spanish_Menorca
0.14247920 Italian_Veneto
0.14281968 Spanish_Murcia
0.14346768 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.14408355 Rumelia_East
0.14447789 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.14495509 Samaritan
0.14502980 Spanish_Canarias
0.14503906 Spanish_Baleares
0.14522637 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.14533518 Greek_Cappadocia
0.14551098 Spanish_Andalucia
0.14562195 Spanish_El_Hierro
0.14564350 Spanish_Tenerife
0.14577076 Spanish_Eivissa
0.14580326 Druze
0.14637158 Spanish_Extremadura
0.14661977 Spanish_La_Palma
0.14665019 Portuguese
0.14715765 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.14733152 Spanish_Fuerteventura
0.14760031 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.14780958 Spanish_Lanzarote
0.14845359 Spanish_Gran_Canaria
0.14875922 Spanish_Alacant
0.14882975 Spanish_Aragon
0.14892492 Spanish_Castello
0.14894662 Spanish_Valencia
0.14902293 Spanish_Mallorca
0.14902849 Lebanese_Druze
0.14925061 Karaite_Egypt
0.14944388 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.14967830 Spanish_Cantabria
0.14980333 Spanish_Pirineu
0.15049642 Spanish_Galicia
0.15100061 Spanish_La_Gomera
0.15106956 Spanish_Lleida
0.15129291 Spanish_Navarra
0.15155524 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.15177977 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.15195901 Spanish_Girona

[Jana]

Yes, but aren't Cypriots and Pontians really just Hellenized natives, i.e. they aren't really Greek by blood?

Pontians and Cypriots are ethnic Greeks for thousands of years and have been part of same ethnicity far longer than vast majority of Europeans.
They indeed were Hellenized, but extremely long ago and speak Greek for far longer than some recently Hellenized mainlanders who used to speak Albanian, Vlach or Slavic until recently.

[Jingle Bell]

My mom's sides tepecik ancestry (5.6% about) probably is why she plots near northern Italy, could be roman ancestry. Romans had the algarve for longer than northern areas

wow, i score 6% and im only half portuguese, must be serfadi + roman in my case

[Jana]

it’s not like what u think cv. anatolian greeks, pontic greeks and cypriots are hellenized people not greek. (genetically, probably they are culturally fully greek idk) i know all christians = white, and all muslims = sandnigger to u but all of them genetically quite distant from mainland greeks even “sandnigger” albanians and balkan and most anatolian turks are more closer to mainlanders.

Thing is that lots of mainlanders are also Hellenized people just far later than Anatolians or Cypriots, except some regions less impacted by barbarian settling like Mani, I guess.
Pretty sure that certain Islanders are purest Hellenes.

[catgeorge]

Fact 1: CHG is present in all Europeans since the bronze age.
Fact 2: CHG peaks in the Caucasus.
Fact 3: CHG is a fundamental part of the Indo-European peoples, our most direct ancestors who made us what we are today.
Fact 4: European farmers (ENF) are Levantine farmers with slightly more WHG.
Fact 5: Levantine farmers peak in Arabia.
Fact 6: Georgians and Northern Europeans are genetically equidistant to ENF.
Fact 7: Both heavy CHG and ENF peoples produce some phenotypes capable of passing in Europe and others only in West Asia.
Fact 8: Northern Caucasian peoples are European.
Fact 9: If you accept Sardinians, Cypriots or any swarthy European as white then you also have to accept that some Georgians are white.
Fact 10: Kadyrov passes in Europe while Mantzoukas doesn't.
Fact 11: If the children of the first grew up in Germany they'd be considered white Europeans but the children of the second as MENAs.
Fact 12: You're in denial of factual evidence.

Yes all Europeans have West Asian ranging from 3-10% but unsure on the merits on the hardcoreness of it all when it is so insignificant and overhwhelmed by other factors.

Whats white anyway? I think a person that has the European trinity - WHG + ENF + ANE

If anyone is missing any of the three components is not European as ALL Europeans has the trinity in different variations.

I think this is somewhat accurate on the genetic lineage of ALL Europeans

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Archaeogenetic_analysis_of_human_skin_pigmentation _in_Europe.jpg

[placebo]

Thing is that lots of mainlanders are also Hellenized people just far later than Anatolians or Cypriots, except some regions less impacted by barbarian settling like Mani, I guess.
Pretty sure that certain Islanders are purest Hellenes.

yeah i totally agree.

[Lplius]

I'm European, unlike you. And you will never be accepted as one of us, no matter how many cherrypicked blond orientals you post.

So many poor excuses. I am European too and as such I know being white is not an European identity but a American colonial one, so going back to the question asked in this thread: yes, some Georgians are white while some people hailing from Europe are not.

[Lplius]

Mantzoukas is part gypsy (last name -oukas) so he should not be considered as a benchmark.


Georgians are genetically and culturally West Asians throughout the history (part or proxy satellite ping ponging between Byzantines and Persians, then Turks), Southern Caucasus was never part of Europe under any geopolitical or historical model.

I picked Mantzoukas like I could have picked in other. The point is that White is a broad category used in America and it isn't restricted to Europeans. Some West Asians will be considered white like many Georgians while some Europeans won't.

[Lplius]

You're making a strawman here, this is not the point, I wasn't talking about where they were "born", I was talking about where it peaks, and it's not in west asia.

And, no It's not closer to middle easterners and north africans, BTW Italian jews do have european admixture


Distance to: ENF
0.07938021 Sardinian
0.11819864 Italian_Jew
0.11876964 French_Corsica
0.11879376 Italian_Campania
0.11897222 Italian_Calabria
0.11918227 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.11983794 Italian_Apulia
0.12001380 Italian_Lazio
0.12009072 Sicilian_East
0.12075342 Italian_Basilicata
0.12127950 Romaniote_Jew
0.12254346 Maltese
0.12269966 Sephardic_Jew
0.12299342 Greek_Dodecanese
0.12345867 Italian_Abruzzo
0.12346224 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.12350994 Greek_Kos
0.12449445 Cypriot
0.12467485 Italian_Molise
0.12501500 Italian_Umbria
0.12502347 Sicilian_West
0.12527558 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.12630516 Italian_Marche
0.12684649 Greek_Izmir
0.12743825 Greek_Crete
0.12768383 Tunisian_Jew
0.12856898 Greek_Laconia
0.12872113 Italian_Tuscany
0.12877689 Greek_Corinthia
0.12889388 Moroccan_Jew
0.12945824 Greek_Argolis
0.12948560 Greek_Peloponnese
0.12957252 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.13054529 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.13096543 Greek_Achaea
0.13124215 Greek_Arcadia
0.13145208 Libyan_Jew
0.13174947 Greek_Elis
0.13188862 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.13241434 Greek_Messenia
0.13359705 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.13368947 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.13393578 Italian_Lombardy
0.13416091 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.13477834 Italian_Piedmont
0.13506540 Italian_Bergamo
0.13512636 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.13514827 Greek_Thessaly
0.13518363 Albanian
0.13551628 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.13575726 Sephardic_Jew_o
0.13748521 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.13963898 Swiss_Italian
0.13970969 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.13995164 Lebanese_Christian
0.14058868 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.14067531 Italian_Liguria
0.14092970 Greek_Macedonia
0.14104674 Syrian_Jew
0.14169612 Spanish_Menorca
0.14247920 Italian_Veneto
0.14281968 Spanish_Murcia
0.14346768 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.14408355 Rumelia_East
0.14447789 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.14495509 Samaritan
0.14502980 Spanish_Canarias
0.14503906 Spanish_Baleares
0.14522637 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.14533518 Greek_Cappadocia
0.14551098 Spanish_Andalucia
0.14562195 Spanish_El_Hierro
0.14564350 Spanish_Tenerife
0.14577076 Spanish_Eivissa
0.14580326 Druze
0.14637158 Spanish_Extremadura
0.14661977 Spanish_La_Palma
0.14665019 Portuguese
0.14715765 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.14733152 Spanish_Fuerteventura
0.14760031 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.14780958 Spanish_Lanzarote
0.14845359 Spanish_Gran_Canaria
0.14875922 Spanish_Alacant
0.14882975 Spanish_Aragon
0.14892492 Spanish_Castello
0.14894662 Spanish_Valencia
0.14902293 Spanish_Mallorca
0.14902849 Lebanese_Druze
0.14925061 Karaite_Egypt
0.14944388 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.14967830 Spanish_Cantabria
0.14980333 Spanish_Pirineu
0.15049642 Spanish_Galicia
0.15100061 Spanish_La_Gomera
0.15106956 Spanish_Lleida
0.15129291 Spanish_Navarra
0.15155524 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.15177977 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.15195901 Spanish_Girona


Too bad you cut it out to not show that West Asians and North Africans have a higher affinity towards ENF than Europeans north of the Balkans/Alps/Pyrenees. You're too quick to see inexistent fallacies but manipulate the data like a madman.

[kingmob]

I picked Mantzoukas like I could have picked in other. The point is that White is a broad category used in America and it isn't restricted to Europeans. Some West Asians will be considered white like many Georgians while some Europeans won't.


No, you picked the gypsy who is very visibly gypsy to make your point. West Asian Greeks don't look anything like Mantzoukas, and I think it's hilarious how Anatolian Greeks (and Cypriots) are always brought in such discussions when you want to use them as some sort of trump card, "hur ... dur ... if these guys are considered Europeans, then so should *insert group here*"; just some useful info for you, Anatolian Greeks don't give two shits about being considered white nor european.

As for your point about America, you are correct since they are the source of the white identification in a racialised concept, but that's a moving goalpost.

[Marshall Theodore]

I picked Mantzoukas like I could have picked in other. The point is that White is a broad category used in America and it isn't restricted to Europeans. Some West Asians will be considered white like many Georgians while some Europeans won't.

"White" is about genetic european identity, only morons care so much about lookism and e.g. a algerian-dutch mix blonde who looks subnordid Will never be whiter than a native walloon with dark features.

None west asian is white, just accept dude, and you arent Irish (as was said by JamesBond007) but a OWD troll who thinks that a Nordid looking azerbaijani is white.

[Marshall Theodore]

Too bad you cut it out to not show that West Asians and North Africans have a higher affinity towards ENF than Europeans north of the Balkans/Alps/Pyrenees. You're too quick to see inexistent fallacies but manipulate the data like a madman.

North Europeans have ENF too, but less than any South Euro /MENA on average.

[user_]

Georgians are very unique population. We have highest CHG and West Asian and are the most Euro looking people in West Asia at the same time, without any or very little North Euro admixture. That means CHG produce light featured people. Georgians are lighter than many proper Europeans.
Georgian language and culture is not related to Asia or Europe, it stands out. But if we have to choose, i think Georgians fit better in Europe, than in Asia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk_1pRp0Axc

[Lplius]

"White" is about genetic european identity, only morons care so much about lookism and e.g. a algerian-dutch mix blonde who looks subnordid Will never be whiter than a native walloon with dark features.

None west asian is white, just accept dude, and you arent Irish (as was said by JamesBond007) but a OWD troll who thinks that a Nordid looking azerbaijani is white.

Yeah, right, because people have their 23andme results tattooed in their forehead, specially centuries ago when the white identity was forged. Being white is 100% about lookism.
But even if you want to make it exclusively about genetics, you can't consider ENF heavy people as white and at the same time CHG heavy people as nonwhite.

By the way I'm 100% European and white according to your own definition, unlike you Mr. mixed race Brazilian. I'm more suited to decide who is white and who isn't

[Jana]

North Europeans have ENF too, but less than any South Euro /MENA on average.

Northern Europeans are way more more ENF than MENAs. this is by using Davidski gold standard calc:
MENAs don't even score Barcin N, but they chose Mesopotamian shifted TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N and they don't have too much of that either;

Target: English
Distance: 0.0472% / 0.04716012
47.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
38.5 TUR_Barcin_N
14.3 WHG

Target: German
Distance: 0.0383% / 0.03828894
46.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
40.4 TUR_Barcin_N
13.4 WHG

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.0600% / 0.06002078
50.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
33.0 TUR_Barcin_N
16.2 WHG

Target: Iraqi
Distance: 0.0212% / 0.02117523
43.5 Levant_PPNB
22.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
19.9 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
2.6 Yoruba
0.3 Dinka
0.1 Nganassan

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 0.0194% / 0.01935963
28.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
26.6 Levant_PPNB
22.2 MAR_Taforalt
9.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.4 Yoruba
2.8 Dinka
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Syrian
Distance: 0.0157% / 0.01566965
37.2 Levant_PPNB
23.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
10.1 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.6 Dinka
1.3 Yoruba
1.1 Han
0.3 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

[Jana]

I'm more suited to decide who is white and who isn't

You are brown and not European.

[Marshall Theodore]

Yeah, right, because people have their 23andme results tattooed in their forehead, specially centuries ago when the white identity was forged. Being white is 100% about lookism.
But even if you want to make it exclusively about genetics, you can't consider ENF heavy people as white and at the same time CHG heavy people as nonwhite.

By the way I'm 100% European and white according to your own definition, unlike you Mr. mixed race Brazilian. I'm more suited to decide who is white and who isn't

Lol at your reactionism, white members usually doesnt needs to prove their whiteness here, but you seems to be very insecure about this subject, probably just more a random turkic brown XD.

[Lplius]

Lol at your reactionism, white members usually doesnt needs to prove their whiteness here, but you seems to be very insecure about this subject, probably just more a random turkic brown XD.

Projecting much? I'm not the one who made up the origins of his interlocutor to deny his arguments.

[vader]

Yeah, right, because people have their 23andme results tattooed in their forehead, specially centuries ago when the white identity was forged. Being white is 100% about lookism.
But even if you want to make it exclusively about genetics, you can't consider ENF heavy people as white and at the same time CHG heavy people as nonwhite.



We gotta clarify some things. First off, what is 100% white looking to you? And please do not say first and foremost skin color, because then we know you're an idiot. Second off, phenotype even among 100% native stock can produce pseudo uncommon looks that may not look typical in a group. Tribes always had people that were different looking, outliers even millenia ago even among genetically pure populations and then with natural mixing - that's simply the complexity of looks. Second, centuries ago? Meaning 100s of years ago... if we go back probably to anything before German anthropologist created their stupid racial classifications in the late 19th century to create justification of superiority complex than you will find no one cared much about subtle differences in europeans. It's true iberians attached racial rules during the age of exploration, but it was between big distinction groups... native indians, spaniards + Portuguese europeans, and blacks. Then they created mixed classifications to go even further. But anyway, there were obvious differences in looks you could see between these populations. But I really doubt the differences we compare today from europeans and even some MENAs - one's who have evident fully caucasoid features - was nearly as strong as people make them to be on this forum, or in real life bc of dumb liberal obsessions with race.


You have to first identify and define what is white to you so we can better understand what you mean. Because right now, I can show many examples of people who may not be considered white in the definition of many (Primarily americans) while having heritage 100% from that european region. Starting off with me, my brother, and sister, and going all the way to Sweden up north :)

I don't think the term white was very popular in Europe until recently due to America's influence on the term either. I realize it existed in europe for a long time, but its use was irrelevant bc european pops for a long time did not have immigration or foreigners until recently. Now with high immigration and mixing people are going back on it and the term seems to be revitalized. I think it being used to show differences in groups in a country is okay when they are blatantly obvious... but to use it for other reasons like saying a native is a foreigner bc of an outlier look is just nazi-like obsession. Example: now if I were to go to Germany I'll be confused as turkish or moroccan due to having darker skin... and maybe experience racial profiling bc of immigration and the liberal obsession with looking at differences in "race". Same could be done to any euro with darker skin, or a little bit more of an off-white look from the lens of a euro above the 45th latitude. Turn the time way back, I probably wouldn't because the obsession with subtle differences isnt nearly as high as it is today in phenotype.

[Jana]

Distance to: Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
0.17640103 BedouinA
0.20056164 BedouinB
0.20060178 German_Erlangen
0.20248647 German
0.21074987 English
0.21345823 German_East
0.21602363 German_Hamburg



Are you stupid? I guess yes. Northern Europeans have massive steppe influence + extra WHG which pulls them further apart from ENF.
But they have much more ENF admixture than Arabs who have it completely insignificant.

Deal with it.

[Marshall Theodore]

I am trying to show that. It is perfectly normal for Northern Europeans to have low ANF as they have more steppe and WHG. Because ANF is not of European origin lol

Steppe is not fully european either

[Lplius]

We gotta clarify some things. First off, what is 100% white looking to you? And please do not say first and foremost skin color, because then we know you're an idiot. Second off, phenotype even among 100% native stock can produce pseudo uncommon looks that may not look typical in a group. Tribes always had people that were different looking, outliers even millenia ago even among genetically pure populations and then with natural mixing - that's simply the complexity of looks. Second, centuries ago? Meaning 100s of years ago... if we go back probably to anything before German anthropologist created their stupid racial classifications in the late 19th century to create justification of superiority complex than you will find no one cared much about subtle differences in europeans. It's true iberians attached racial rules during the age of exploration, but it was between big distinction groups... native indians, spaniards + Portuguese europeans, and blacks. Then they created mixed classifications to go even further. But anyway, there were obvious differences in looks you could see between these populations. But I really doubt the differences we compare today from europeans and even some MENAs - one's who have evident fully caucasoid features - was nearly as strong as people make them to be on this forum, or in real life bc of dumb liberal obsessions with race.


You have to first identify and define what is white to you so we can better understand what you mean. Because right now, I can show many examples of people who may not be considered white in the definition of many (Primarily americans) while having heritage 100% from that european region. Starting off with me, my brother, and sister, and going all the way to Sweden up north :)

I don't think the term white was very popular in Europe until recently due to America's influence on the term either. I realize it existed in europe for a long time, but its use was irrelevant bc european pops for a long time did not have immigration or foreigners until recently. Now with high immigration and mixing people are going back on it and the term seems to be revitalized. I think it being used to show differences in groups in a country is okay when they are blatantly obvious... but to use it for other reasons like saying a native is a foreigner bc of an outlier look is just nazi-like obsession. Example: now if I were to go to Germany I'll be confused as turkish or moroccan due to having darker skin... and maybe experience racial profiling bc of immigration and the liberal obsession with looking at differences in "race". Same could be done to any euro with darker skin, or a little bit more of an off-white look from the lens of a euro above the 45th latitude. Turn the time way back, I probably wouldn't because the obsession with subtle differences isnt nearly as high as it is today in phenotype.

You're right but you should be telling this to the others because I'm the one who has the broadest definition of whiteness. I'm just pointing out the contradiction of considering all Europeans as white but West Asians who can pass in Europe as non-white.
White is something I don't identify with and prefer to leave to each country to decide what they mean by white. If you're not considered white by Americans for me it's fine and if a light skinned quadroon is considered white in Brazil it's fine too.

[Jana]

I am trying to show that. It is perfectly normal for Northern Europeans to have low ANF as they have more steppe and WHG. Because ANF is not of European origin lol

they don't have low ENF, they have much higher ENF than middle easterners do. It's second biggest admixture in Europeans from northwest to northeast.
There is nothing left to discuss.

[Marshall Theodore]

I'm just pointing out the contradiction of considering all Europeans as white but West Asians who can pass in Europe as non-white.

Because WAs arent white juste like a white-passing castizo isnt white either, its not hard to understand, pale skin means nothing.


I'm the one who has the broadest definition of whiteness

90% of this forum has a better concept of "whiteness" than your cope

[Lplius]

Are you stupid? I guess yes. Northern Europeans have massive steppe influence + extra WHG which pulls them further apart from ENF.
But they have much more ENF admixture than Arabs who have it completely insignificant.

Deal with it.

And North Africans would top the list if it wasn't for their SSA. What a stupid argument.

[Lplius]

they don't have low ENF, they have much higher ENF than middle easterners do. It's second biggest admixture in Europeans from northwest to northeast.
There is nothing left to discuss.

They don't but you're cheating anyway because your precious ENF are Levantine farmers + HG.

[Lplius]

Because WAs arent white juste like a white-passing castizo isnt white either, its not hard to understand, pale skin means nothing.



90% of this forum has a better concept of "whiteness" than your cope

You just said that Steppe is not fully European so according to your own logic no one in this world is European/white. You can't get more stupid.

[Jana]

They don't but you're cheating anyway because your precious ENF are Levantine farmers + HG.

Hahaha, look at this coping brown monkey. You will never be white.

[Jana]

ANF ​​has a mix of mostly dzudzuana and some whg. A little blend of WHG doesn't make it completely European .period. most Middle Easterners are made up of dzudzuana+taforalt(North Africans, Bedouins etc) or dzudzuana+ANE(North West Asians).

I don't care about your mental gymnasitics, runs showed how things stand and those are that your Kurds don't share much even with southernmost Europeans.
stop projecting OWD and be proud MENA instead.

[Lplius]

I don't care about your mental gymnasitics, runs showed how things stand and those are that your Kurds do't share much even with southernmost Europeans.
stop projecting OWD and be proud MENA instead.

Why don't you substract part of the ancestry of Kurds and compare only that part like you did earlier?
Arabian Bedouins are closer to ENF than the majority of Europeans. Deal with it. Cope.

[Ænglishman]

In other words, they're not white



Trirracial brazilians are mostly christians and have eurasian blood either, but arent white, just like caucasus ppl.

And as noted, CHG was not European at all, Steppe herders were pratically mongrels (like ANE from EHG being equivalent to modern castizos).

I have to point this out to you. No offense intended but ANE isn't "castizo" EHG which is 75% ANE and clusters much closer to WHG than modern Europeans and WHG itself was mixed with older paleolithic Europeans like Vestonice 116462 which were just about as Asian shifted as ANE and WHG is thought to have received a small amount of direct contribution from some unknown Asian related population later on as well. To my knowledge Finns who are about 5% more Asian than modern Europeans (which you could argue are between 3-5% already) are similarly Asian shifted to WHG and slightly less Asian shifted than EHG 116463. I would argue it's more the case that modern Europeans have had Asian like DNA depleted by mixture with Near Eastern populations.

[Jana]

Why don't you substract part of the ancestry of Kurds and compare only that part like you did earlier?
Arabian Bedouins are closer to ENF than the majority of Europeans. Deal with it. Cope.

Kurds score 0% Anatolia Barcin N.

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 0.0179% / 0.01793365
29.1 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
24.7 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
18.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
13.5 Levant_PPNB
12.9 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.9 Han
0.3 Nganassan

Target: German
Distance: 0.0383% / 0.03828894
46.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
40.4 TUR_Barcin_N
13.4 WHG

Meanwhile Germans are 40% Anatolia Barcin.

will you cry now, brown troll? You will never be admitted into our club, you don't belong.

[Jana]

Of course I am proud of the Middle East. You are trying to portray a Middle Eastern component as European. And no, why should I care about looking European, I look what I am.

no, you are trying to appropriate European DNA and bring us closer to your brown people. Meanwhile no European wants to have anything to do with your kind.
you're extremely envy and jealous of Europeans, just like the rest of non whites around the globe.

[Ænglishman]

no, you are trying to appropriate European DNA and bring us closer to your brown people. Meanwhile no European wants to have anything with your kind.
you're extremely envy and jealous of Europeans, just like the rest of non whites around the globe.

I mean really, you are cheating. All those components have ANF in them in part, Kura araxes PPNB and Tepecik Ciftilik. Also their other components are closer to ANF than WHG and EHG are so they are obviously closer to ANF. ANF is brown deal with it. WSH is really the only "white" one in that it is closest in proportion to modern Europeans and contains all three elements but WHG and EHG must be respected as being the pieces that uniquely make us what we are.

[Jana]

I mean really, you are cheating. All those components have ANF in them in part, Kura araxes PPNB and Tepecik Ciftilik. Also their other components are closer to ANF than WHG and EHG are so they are obviously closer to ANF. ANF is brown deal with it. WSH is the really the only "white" one in that it is closest in proportion to modern Europeans and contains all three elements but WHG and EHG must be respected as being the pieces that uniquely make us what we are.

Shut the fuck up. I'm using Davidski standard calc moron. Ofc Barcin N has overlap with other southern components, but it is clearly separate from them and that is why it is selected by Europeans while for brown people algorithm selects other things. You are over 35% brown than, imbecile.

[Ænglishman]

Shut the fuck up. I'm using Davidski standarf calc moron. Ofc Barcin N has overlap with other southern components, but it is clearly separate from them and that is why it is selected by Europeans while for brown people algorith selects other things. You are over 35% brown than, imbecile.

Yes, yes I am you know like all modern Europeans. DEAL WITH IT. ANF is closer to MENA populations. It obviously isn't fully MENA but are you seriously arguing 100% ANF is European.

[Jana]

I can't stand subhuman IQ.

[Ænglishman]

Shut the fuck up. I'm using Davidski standarf calc moron. Ofc Barcin N has overlap with other southern components, but it is clearly separate from them and that is why it is selected by Europeans while for brown people algorith selects other things. You are over 35% brown than, imbecile.

Yes, yes I am you know like all modern Europeans. DEAL WITH IT. ANF is closer to MENA populations. It obviously isn't fully MENA but are you seriously arguing 100% ANF is European.

[Victor]

Some Georgians are white, some not, it depends on tribe aswell, Georgian nation consists of lots of bigger and smaller tribes.

[Hektor12]

Lulzzzzz..
Cry baby hahahaha

Bro youre literally teaching your dad how to fuck. She has one of the best knowledge of genetics in the forum.

[Jana]

Yes, yes I am you know like all modern Europeans. DEAL WITH IT. ANF is closer to MENA populations. It obviously isn't fully MENA but are you seriously arguing 100% ANF is European.

Ofcourse it is, imbecile, it peaks in Europeans and we have far more of it than MENAs do. Oh sorry, you aren't even European, only by blood. Lmao.

[Ænglishman]

Ofcourse it is, imbecile, it peaks in Europeans and we have far more of it than MENAs do. Oh sorry, you aren't even European, only by blood.

ANF is MENA it peaks in mixed populations intermediate between those most uniquely European and is closer to MENA than to most Europeans. Stop slinging around insults towards people when you can't back an argument. This is like saying Ashkenazi Jews are "90%" European when they cluster directly between the Middle East and Europe. Get over it, ALL modern populations have transcontinental ancestry that doesn't change their uniqueness or relation to each other, but a Greek relative to me isn't 100% identacle and I am never going to want Greek immigrants in my country. No I'm not 112% with a two percent margin of error WHG but neither are modern MENA populations whom have East Asian and African ancestry 100% the same as ancient MENA.

[Jana]

ANF is MENA it peaks in mixed populations intermediate between those most uniquely European

No. ENF peaks in Sardinians and SW Europeans who are absolutely not transitional populations to MENAs.


Stop slinging around insults towards peoples when you can't back an argument.

I backed an argument with genetic runs which you ignored. That's your problem. Thousand time repeated lie won't become truth just because of your cope and wishful thinking.


This is like saying Ashkenazi Jews are "90%" European when they cluster directly between the Middle East and Europe.

No. Jews are not European.


Get over it, ALL modern populations have transcontinental ancestry

No they don't unless looked back thousands of years ago, that is modern progressivist shit. All Europeans have 3 shared genetic admixtures and that is it. You are not European if you lack any of the 3. Move on.

[Jana]

here are globally closest populations (all continents included) to ENF. Sardinians, north Italians, Basques and Spaniards peak in this admixture.

https://i.imgur.com/dBMwOKd.png

It is about as MENA as Prince Harry children are white. :laugh:

[Ænglishman]

Here is where they cluster.

116464

This is the part where I pretend there isn't levantine and north African in Italians and Spaniards and your Balkan ass and where you ignore that ANF is closer to Bedouins than Germans.

[Jana]

You got anihilated, I advise retreat before further humiliation.

[Jana]

This is the part where I pretend there isn't levantine and north African in Italians and Spaniards

There is imbecile, but it is not coming from ENF but from later admixtures and it shows in ancient modeling with them scoring minor brown components that are otherwise foreign to Europe.


and your Balkan ass and where you ignore that ANF is closer to Bedouins than Germans.

Closeness is irrelevant. Germans have tons of ENF, Bedouins zero to little.

I'm racially Nordic and live in Europe thus superior to your low IQ Murrican ass.

[Ænglishman]

There is imbecile, but it is not coming from ENF but from later admixtures and it shows in ancient modeling with them scoring minor brown components that are otherwise foreign to Europe.



Closeness is irrelevant. Germans have tons of ENF, Bedouins zero to little.

I'm racially Nordic and live in Europe thus superior to your low IQ Murrican ass.

Yes my Mensa tier American ass that you can't seem to beat in an argument. So why don't you keep up the straw mans given I never implied Levantine and North African came via ANF.

Closeness is irrelevant. also this undermines your entire argument regarding Georgians tard.

[Ænglishman]

Yeah,116466 Sardinians seem really "white" 116467. And it's not just me either 116468 116469.

[Ænglishman]

Also let's go through a list of contradictions so far. You have stated "Closeness is irrelevant" and "here are globally closest populations (all continents included) to ENF." simultaneously using proximity to Southern Europeans as an argument whilst also ignoring proximity to those you consider stinky brown people. You have also claimed any population which doesn't have all three commonly shared components of Europeans isn't European while defending the idea that a population composed of only one of those components is somehow European. All the while cropping images to only show the part of the information you want to portray. I agree Georgians aren't white, but for Christ's sake have some level of humility and Academic honesty, you me and all other Europeans share some level of ancestry with Near Eastern populations and at a certain level that ancestry pushes a population out of our cluster.

[Cristiano viejo]

Here is where they cluster.

116464

This is the part where I pretend there isn't levantine and north African in Italians and Spaniards and your Balkan ass and where you ignore that ANF is closer to Bedouins than Germans.
And here is where I pretend there are not SSA and Amerindian in Americans.

[Ænglishman]

And here is where I pretend there are not SSA and Amerindian in Americans.

https://archive.ph/S5Wrs

Or if you are too lazy to read only 3.5% of white Americans have ANY African ancestry and only 2.7% have ANY Amerindian in a country the size of a continent, so in short they don't dumb shit. Whereas almost all Spaniards have some African ancestry and all do have a higher proportion of MENA ancestry than is in Americans.116470 Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Marshall Theodore]

[Whereas almost all Spaniards have some African ancestry and all do have a higher proportion of MENA ancestry than is in Americans.116470 Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

African in Spaniards is NA, therefore caucasoid, not SSA (except for guanches/canarians), meanwhile americans usually have almost North Euro stock, and Northern Euros have the highest scores of ANE (especially Balts) and ANEs were around 20% Tianyuan mongoloid, so stop trolling.

Iberomaurusian "aFriCan" is ANA (ghost population) not SSA.

[vader]

African in Spaniards is NA, therefore caucasoid, not SSA (except for guanches/canarians), meanwhile americans usually have almost North Euro stock, and Northern Euros have the highest scores of ANE (especially Balts) and ANEs were around 20% Tianyuan mongoloid, so stop trolling.

Iberomaurusian "aFriCan" is ANA (ghost population) not SSA.

some iberians do have ssa. Like me... I get better fits with ssa reference... taforalt cant do it by itself. Some spaniards get it too (more westward typically), need it also for better fits:

Example:

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.7829% / 0.02782863
61.2 EEF
29.4 Corded_Ware_Early
7.6 Taforalt
1.8 Caucasus_Darkveti-Meshoko_En

vs

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.7256% / 0.02725649
61.6 EEF
30.0 Corded_Ware_Early
6.2 Taforalt
1.2 West_African
1.0 Caucasus_Darkveti-Meshoko_En

[Marshall Theodore]

some iberians do have ssa. Like me... I get better fits with ssa reference... taforalt cant do it by itself. Some spaniards get it too (more westward typically), need it also for better fits:

Example:

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.7829% / 0.02782863
61.2 EEF
29.4 Corded_Ware_Early
7.6 Taforalt
1.8 Caucasus_Darkveti-Meshoko_En

vs

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.7256% / 0.02725649
61.6 EEF
30.0 Corded_Ware_Early
6.2 Taforalt
1.2 West_African
1.0 Caucasus_Darkveti-Meshoko_En

Yep, but not all Iberians

[vader]

Yep, but not all Iberians

Sure. But many also do :)

[Marshall Theodore]

Sure. But many also do :)

Especially canarians

[Ænglishman]

African in Spaniards is NA, therefore caucasoid, not SSA (except for guanches/canarians), meanwhile americans usually have almost North Euro stock, and Northern Euros have the highest scores of ANE (especially Balts) and ANEs were around 20% Tianyuan mongoloid, so stop trolling.

Iberomaurusian "aFriCan" is ANA (ghost population) not SSA.

Iberomaurusian is one third SSA in origin which is why I said 5.2 is equivalent to 1.7. Caucasoid is a morphological term not a genotype, someone is "Caucasoid" if their skull has a particular shape which is why Ethiopians are generally considered "Caucasoid".
Loosdrecht et al. (2018) " Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities),"

116471

[Eurafricanid]

Iberomaurusian is one third SSA in origin which is why I said 5.2 is equivalent to 1.7. Caucasoid is a morphological term not a genotype, someone is "Caucasoid" if their skull has a particular shape which is why Ethiopians are generally considered "Caucasoid".
Loosdrecht et al. (2018) " Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities),"

116471

You say things like this as if the biggest component of Northern Europe wasn't mixed with mongoloid and were "pure" "According to research published since 2013, MA-1 belonged to a population related to the genetic ancestors of Siberians, American Indians, and Bronze Age Yamnaya and Botai people of the Eurasian steppe."

[Ænglishman]

Hello Vader I'm going to directly address you but really I would just like to apologize to anyone I may have offended throughout this argumentation whom isn't involved in all this. I had no intention of being caustic or inflammatory in beginning my statements here. I have become progressively more agitated due to what I believe is rude and dishonest argumentation or outright insults from some other members here. I don't personally have any grudge against southern Europeans especially not Spaniards and one of my opening statements was that I find it moronic that people argue about tiny, miniscule percentages of non-European introgression, while ignoring the major differences between larger European population groups. I may consider Besermyans Moksha or other western Uralics "white" because I do share a decent relation to them, but a Spaniard will likely consider himself kin to Sardinians and other peoples whom share less with me than many West Asians because while we share more with each other than we don't and most all of us are kinsmen to some degree, the edges as is the case in any race are frayed. Northern Europeans like myself could be argued to carry additional Asian DNA from a Southern Perspective whereas from a Northern Perspective Southerners have an obvious affinity toward the Middle East, the only people whom have a "balanced" perspective on the matter would be people like the French Hungarians and Romanians whom we would both consider to be just a small bit different from ourselves. Not to mention all peoples are entitled to a special love for their brethren Iberians to one another Gauls Slavs Germanics and so on.

[Ænglishman]

You say things like this as if the biggest component of Northern Europe wasn't mixed with mongoloid and were "pure" "According to research published since 2013, MA-1 belonged to a population related to the genetic ancestors of Siberians, American Indians, and Bronze Age Yamnaya and Botai people of the Eurasian steppe."

I'm not being some crazed purest I just don't care because I have mongoloid ancestry because I am northern, I personally prefer minor Mongoloid mixture over significant MENA mixture because it's more proximal to me. You should go back and check out my post where I explained that even WHG was more Asian shifted than modern Europeans in defense of that very fact.

[Eurafricanid]

I'm not being some crazed purest I just don't care because I have mongoloid ancestry because I am northern, I personally prefer minor Mongoloid mixture over significant MENA mixture because it's more proximal to me. You should go back and check out my post where I explained that even WHG was more Asian shifted than modern Europeans in defense of that very fact.

But you know that East Asians are basically as far away from Europeans as Sub Saharan Africans, right?
And btw "...or closely related people from Siberia and a population of "Caucasus hunter-gatherers" (CHG) who probably arrived from the Caucasus or Iran. Each of those two populations contributed about half the Yamnaya DNA" "...the result of a genetic admixture between the descendants of Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) and people related to hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus (CHG), an ancestral component which is often named "Steppe ancestry", with additional admixture of up to 18% from Early European Farmers."



Distance to: CHG
0.15514676 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.16964420 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.16985357 Iranian_Fars
0.17260680 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.17351527 Iranian_Lor
0.17604027 Iranian_Bandari
0.17845017 Greek_Trabzon
0.20570995 Iranian_Jew
0.20862491 Greek_Cappadocia
0.20922124 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.21131952 Iraqi
0.21476165 Iraqi_Jew
0.22922402 Greek_Kos
0.23077714 Greek_Dodecanese
0.23116001 Greek_Crete
0.23637719 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.23724059 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.23735715 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.23761829 Greek_Izmir
0.23880184 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.23937748 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.23943872 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.23961743 Italian_Calabria
0.23968404 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.24065398 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.24069056 Italian_Basilicata
0.24163208 Italian_Molise
0.24213656 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.24218308 Italian_Campania
0.24242537 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.24247484 Italian_Apulia
0.24261148 Greek_Elis
0.24286215 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.24335359 Italian_Abruzzo
0.24341375 Greek_Laconia
0.24371349 Greek_Messenia
0.24408075 Greek_Macedonia
0.24446260 Greek_Argolis
0.24497911 Greek_Arcadia
0.24503740 Greek_Corinthia
0.24504535 Greek_Thessaly
0.24563987 Greek_Peloponnese
0.24576732 Greek_Achaea
0.24641560 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.24715247 Italian_Jew
0.24806741 Italian_Umbria
0.24860335 Italian_Marche
0.25212170 Italian_Lazio
0.25294762 Macedonian
0.25295518 Italian_Tuscany
0.25678291 Italian_Piedmont
0.25758753 Italian_Liguria
0.26249496 Italian_Northeast
0.26391649 Italian_Veneto
0.26536486 Italian_Lombardy
0.26694797 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.26779197 Italian_Bergamo
0.26782739 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.26979866 German_Erlangen
0.27144858 German
0.27332826 German_East
0.27395589 Irish
0.27438776 German_Hamburg
0.28977442 Lithuanian_PA
0.29197646 Lithuanian_VA
0.29460998 Lithuanian_RA
0.29596230 Lithuanian_VZ
0.29900186 Lithuanian_SZ
0.29909170 Lithuanian_PZ

[Jana]

I'm not being some crazed purest I just don't care because I have mongoloid ancestry because I am northern, I personally prefer minor Mongoloid mixture over significant MENA mixture because it's more proximal to me. You should go back and check out my post where I explained that even WHG was more Asian shifted than modern Europeans in defense of that very fact.

You don't have any mongoloid ancestry. Southern Europeans like Romanians have more than most Europeans while English have zero.

[Eurafricanid]

I'm not being some crazed purest I just don't care because I have mongoloid ancestry because I am northern, I personally prefer minor Mongoloid mixture over significant MENA mixture because it's more proximal to me. You should go back and check out my post where I explained that even WHG was more Asian shifted than modern Europeans in defense of that very fact.


But you know that East Asians are basically as far away from Europeans as Sub Saharan Africans, right?
And btw "...or closely related people from Siberia and a population of "Caucasus hunter-gatherers" (CHG) who probably arrived from the Caucasus or Iran. Each of those two populations contributed about half the Yamnaya DNA" "...the result of a genetic admixture between the descendants of Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) and people related to hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus (CHG), an ancestral component which is often named "Steppe ancestry", with additional admixture of up to 18% from Early European Farmers."



Distance to: CHG
0.15514676 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.16964420 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.16985357 Iranian_Fars
0.17260680 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.17351527 Iranian_Lor
0.17604027 Iranian_Bandari
0.17845017 Greek_Trabzon
0.20570995 Iranian_Jew
0.20862491 Greek_Cappadocia
0.20922124 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.21131952 Iraqi
0.21476165 Iraqi_Jew
0.22922402 Greek_Kos
0.23077714 Greek_Dodecanese
0.23116001 Greek_Crete
0.23637719 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.23724059 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.23735715 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.23761829 Greek_Izmir
0.23880184 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.23937748 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.23943872 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.23961743 Italian_Calabria
0.23968404 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.24065398 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.24069056 Italian_Basilicata
0.24163208 Italian_Molise
0.24213656 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.24218308 Italian_Campania
0.24242537 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.24247484 Italian_Apulia
0.24261148 Greek_Elis
0.24286215 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.24335359 Italian_Abruzzo
0.24341375 Greek_Laconia
0.24371349 Greek_Messenia
0.24408075 Greek_Macedonia
0.24446260 Greek_Argolis
0.24497911 Greek_Arcadia
0.24503740 Greek_Corinthia
0.24504535 Greek_Thessaly
0.24563987 Greek_Peloponnese
0.24576732 Greek_Achaea
0.24641560 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.24715247 Italian_Jew
0.24806741 Italian_Umbria
0.24860335 Italian_Marche
0.25212170 Italian_Lazio
0.25294762 Macedonian
0.25295518 Italian_Tuscany
0.25678291 Italian_Piedmont
0.25758753 Italian_Liguria
0.26249496 Italian_Northeast
0.26391649 Italian_Veneto
0.26536486 Italian_Lombardy
0.26694797 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.26779197 Italian_Bergamo
0.26782739 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.26979866 German_Erlangen
0.27144858 German
0.27332826 German_East
0.27395589 Irish
0.27438776 German_Hamburg
0.28977442 Lithuanian_PA
0.29197646 Lithuanian_VA
0.29460998 Lithuanian_RA
0.29596230 Lithuanian_VZ
0.29900186 Lithuanian_SZ
0.29909170 Lithuanian_PZ


this tells us that, not only you're a mix of a "filthy" MENA ENF (~30% - ~40% for N. Euros) but also that your biggest component is actually ~18% "filthy" MENA AGAIN, OMG!! :eek: :eek: and not even that, but, it's also ~50% Iran as well!!? OMG :eek: :eek:, even more "filthy" MENA!!! :eek: :eek:

[Ænglishman]

You don't have any mongoloid ancestry. Southern Europeans like Romanians have more than most Europeans while English have zero.

Yes I do, because WHG EHG and WSH all carried minor mongoloid mixture as would Iran neolithic and CHG due to their ANE component it just depends upon how far back you go to define these components. ANF is the only part of European ancestry that lacks any mongoloid mixture because it seems to have mixed not directly with WHG but something closely related but ancestral to it thus avoiding mixture with paleolithic Europeans whom were just as Asian shifted as EHG whom are almost as Asian shifted as Saami.

[Ænglishman]

But you know that East Asians are basically as far away from Europeans as Sub Saharan Africans, right?
And btw "...or closely related people from Siberia and a population of "Caucasus hunter-gatherers" (CHG) who probably arrived from the Caucasus or Iran. Each of those two populations contributed about half the Yamnaya DNA" "...the result of a genetic admixture between the descendants of Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) and people related to hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus (CHG), an ancestral component which is often named "Steppe ancestry", with additional admixture of up to 18% from Early European Farmers."



Distance to: CHG
0.15514676 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.16964420 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.16985357 Iranian_Fars
0.17260680 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.17351527 Iranian_Lor
0.17604027 Iranian_Bandari
0.17845017 Greek_Trabzon
0.20570995 Iranian_Jew
0.20862491 Greek_Cappadocia
0.20922124 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.21131952 Iraqi
0.21476165 Iraqi_Jew
0.22922402 Greek_Kos
0.23077714 Greek_Dodecanese
0.23116001 Greek_Crete
0.23637719 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.23724059 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.23735715 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.23761829 Greek_Izmir
0.23880184 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.23937748 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.23943872 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.23961743 Italian_Calabria
0.23968404 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.24065398 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.24069056 Italian_Basilicata
0.24163208 Italian_Molise
0.24213656 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.24218308 Italian_Campania
0.24242537 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.24247484 Italian_Apulia
0.24261148 Greek_Elis
0.24286215 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.24335359 Italian_Abruzzo
0.24341375 Greek_Laconia
0.24371349 Greek_Messenia
0.24408075 Greek_Macedonia
0.24446260 Greek_Argolis
0.24497911 Greek_Arcadia
0.24503740 Greek_Corinthia
0.24504535 Greek_Thessaly
0.24563987 Greek_Peloponnese
0.24576732 Greek_Achaea
0.24641560 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.24715247 Italian_Jew
0.24806741 Italian_Umbria
0.24860335 Italian_Marche
0.25212170 Italian_Lazio
0.25294762 Macedonian
0.25295518 Italian_Tuscany
0.25678291 Italian_Piedmont
0.25758753 Italian_Liguria
0.26249496 Italian_Northeast
0.26391649 Italian_Veneto
0.26536486 Italian_Lombardy
0.26694797 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.26779197 Italian_Bergamo
0.26782739 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.26979866 German_Erlangen
0.27144858 German
0.27332826 German_East
0.27395589 Irish
0.27438776 German_Hamburg
0.28977442 Lithuanian_PA
0.29197646 Lithuanian_VA
0.29460998 Lithuanian_RA
0.29596230 Lithuanian_VZ
0.29900186 Lithuanian_SZ
0.29909170 Lithuanian_PZ


116475

No East Asians aren't "basiaclly" as far away from Europeans as Subsaharan blacks are. Africans only share 99.5% of their base pairs with Europeans which is similar to the 99.6% shared between Chimps and Bonobos whom were reclassified as seperate species rather than sub species based upon their genetic distance to one another. I'm not autistic enough to measure the lines I drew on that PCA but East Asians are something like 25-40% more closely related to Europeans than Africans are.

Also Yamnaya weren't half CHG and they don't come out half CHG in G25 or any other test including the pca's from the guys you are quoting, they were exaggerating, they are around 35-38% CHG which is itself only like 60~% MENA and is comparable to ANF in that way. I don't see why you assume I despise ANF or CHG I don't but I'm not 65% ANF or CHG and I don't want to be, I'm simply stating the fact that there exists a gradient and past a particular point an individual can no longer be considered European whereas the other two components only make you closer to Europeans EHG and WHG until you hit an absurdly high amount but even they will eventually create someone whom isn't "White" in the sense of being closely related to modern Europeans.

[Eurafricanid]

116475

No East Asians aren't "basiaclly" as far away from Europeans as Subsaharan blacks are. Africans only share 99.5% of their base pairs with Europeans which is similar to the 99.6% shared between Chimps and Bonobos whom were reclassified as seperate species rather than sub species based upon their genetic distance to one another. I'm not autistic enough to measure the lines I drew on that PCA but East Asians are something like 25-40% more closely related to Europeans than Africans are.

Also Yamnaya weren't half CHG and they don't come out half CHG in G25 or any other test including the pca's from the guys you are quoting they are around 35-38% CHG which is itself only like 40~% MENA and is comparable to ANF in that way. I don't see why you assume I despise ANF or CHG I don't but I'm not 65% ANF or CHG and I don't want to be, I'm simply stating the fact that there exists a gradient and past a particular point an individual can no longer be considered European whereas the other two components only make you closer to Europeans EHG and WHG until you hit an absurdly high amount but even they will eventually create someone whom isn't "White" in the sense of being closely related to modern Europeans.

When I said SSA I included east africans as well, but nevertheless they are still very far away from northern euros according to your own fact check https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116475&d=1669846781

[Marshall Theodore]

You don't have any mongoloid ancestry. Southern Europeans like Romanians have more than most Europeans while English have zero.

He probably has, but its minor (<2%) and ancient, certainly came from ANE.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfGg6pjCOA248pRcWfqd5qbs8uA97SD 1EzEg&usqp=CAU

[Ænglishman]

He probably has, but its minor (<2%) and ancient, certainly came from ANE.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfGg6pjCOA248pRcWfqd5qbs8uA97SD 1EzEg&usqp=CAU

Nope it's well over 2%, and this is only removing EHG and its derivatives, keep in mind CHG and WHG also carry minor mongoloid Mixture.

116476

[Ænglishman]

When I said SSA I included east africans as well, but nevertheless they are still very far away from northern euros according to your own fact check https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116475&d=1669846781

East Africans are literally half way between other Africans and Eurasians. Also Somalis Ethiopians Nilotics and Swahili types all have confirmed MENA ancestry as high as 50-60% in some Ethiopians.

[Cristiano viejo]

The Mongolian Facade is real
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?96245-Mongolian-Eurasian-Facade

[Eurafricanid]

116475

No East Asians aren't "basiaclly" as far away from Europeans as Subsaharan blacks are. Africans only share 99.5% of their base pairs with Europeans which is similar to the 99.6% shared between Chimps and Bonobos whom were reclassified as seperate species rather than sub species based upon their genetic distance to one another. I'm not autistic enough to measure the lines I drew on that PCA but East Asians are something like 25-40% more closely related to Europeans than Africans are.

Also Yamnaya weren't half CHG and they don't come out half CHG in G25 or any other test including the pca's from the guys you are quoting, they were exaggerating, they are around 35-38% CHG which is itself only like 60~% MENA and is comparable to ANF in that way. I don't see why you assume I despise ANF or CHG I don't but I'm not 65% ANF or CHG and I don't want to be, I'm simply stating the fact that there exists a gradient and past a particular point an individual can no longer be considered European whereas the other two components only make you closer to Europeans EHG and WHG until you hit an absurdly high amount but even they will eventually create someone whom isn't "White" in the sense of being closely related to modern Europeans.

And btw in this image you showed, from what I can see the Northern European rectangle whould, probably include people like Spaniards or Northern Italians, since even Near Easterners and Caucasians fit there

[Ænglishman]

And btw in this image you showed, from what I can see the Northern European rectangle whould, probably include people like Spaniards or Northern Italians, since even Near Easterners and Caucasians fit there

Not really, I can see why you would assume that, but it's actually mainly Caucasians and SC Asians also keep in mind it's a PCA. Caucasians are more "Southern" in that they have more ancestry related to Modern Middle Easterners but keep in mind Iran N and CHG are significantly more Asian shifted than other "MENA" components, Iranians and North Caucasians are often more Asia shifted than Finns are due to proximity and historical interaction with Central Asia. Southern Europeans are probably the most purely "Caucasoid" population in existence because almost all MENA has African and east Asian contribution and all other Europeans have more east Asian contribution than they do.

Basically I was too lazy to draw this in a super accurate tiny box but yes congratulations you have discovered that north Caucasians and Iranians are just as Asia shifted and often more so than northern Europeans.

[Eurafricanid]

I'm not being some crazed purest I just don't care because I have mongoloid ancestry because I am northern, I personally prefer minor Mongoloid mixture over significant MENA mixture because it's more proximal to me. You should go back and check out my post where I explained that even WHG was more Asian shifted than modern Europeans in defense of that very fact.

But you said that ANF is MENA, so your MENA admixture whould be very high, at ~40%, whouldn't it?
And I'm not even going to talk about GHC.

[Ænglishman]

I said ANF is MENA because it is mostly MENA around 66% CHG is actually less MENA at around 60%, it's just more common outside of Europe, but that's also the reason I'm personally closer to Tadjiks and Circassians in G25 than Sardinians. Anyway yes I have significant MENA ancestry like all Europeans do, if I calculate it all out not including Asian components in European DNA I'm 59% exclusive to Europe and 41% Near Eastern, if we break the Asian mixture in those two down I become about 56% exclusive to Europe and 38% MENA with around 6% coming from old Siberian populations. BTW this particular line of Asians is much more closely related to Europeans given that they actually contributed DNA to Europe and also have mixed less with more divergent populations such as Denisova and Homo Erectus.

116477
116479

[Eurafricanid]

Not really, I can see why you would assume that, but it's actually mainly Caucasians and SC Asians also keep in mind it's a PCA. Caucasians are more "Southern" in that they have more ancestry related to Modern Middle Easterners but keep in mind Iran N and CHG are significantly more Asian shifted than other "MENA" components, Iranians and North Caucasians are often more Asia shifted than Finns are due to proximity and historical interaction with Central Asia. Southern Europeans are probably the most purely "Caucasoid" population in existence because almost all MENA has African and east Asian contribution and all other Europeans have more east Asian contribution than they do.

Basically I was too lazy to draw this in a super accurate tiny box but yes congratulations you have discovered that north Caucasians and Iranians are just as Asia shifted and often more so than northern Europeans.

Bruh, that's obvious, though

[Ænglishman]

Anyway if you look at the way everyone is plotting there is a bit of a Crescent shape where Northern Europeans get slightly closer to East Asians until you hit Slavs and Balts whom guess what have the lowest MENA and then high CHG content southern Europeans like Sicilians and Cretan Greeks get almost as close as Northern Europeans excluding Finns and others that have obvious modern Asian mixture. You can clearly see the region of Europe with the least affinity for Asians is northern Italy southern France and Spain whereas the most is Dutch Russians Ugrics and Scandinavians.

[Eurafricanid]

Nope it's well over 2%, and this is only removing EHG and its derivatives, keep in mind CHG and WHG also carry minor mongoloid Mixture.

116476

I was curious about this and then I run the model with North/Western Euro samples:

It's certainly interesting, to say the least:

Target: Spanish_Andalucia
Distance: 5.6853% / 0.05685279
55.0 ANF
21.4 WHG
17.6 CHG
4.4 MAR_Taforalt
1.6 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 5.9232% / 0.05923189
56.8 ANF
21.8 WHG
17.2 CHG
2.2 MAR_Taforalt
2.0 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 5.8991% / 0.05899121
56.0 ANF
22.6 WHG
17.0 CHG
2.2 EastAsian_Siberian
2.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Basque_Spanish
Distance: 6.8213% / 0.06821260
58.2 ANF
27.8 WHG
11.8 CHG
2.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 6.0643% / 0.06064345
60.4 ANF
21.0 CHG
16.4 WHG
2.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: French_Auvergne
Distance: 6.9942% / 0.06994220
52.8 ANF
24.4 WHG
20.4 CHG
2.4 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: French_Paris
Distance: 8.4003% / 0.08400337
48.8 ANF
26.0 WHG
22.8 CHG
2.4 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Welsh
Distance: 9.6514% / 0.09651357
40.8 ANF
30.2 WHG
26.4 CHG
2.6 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: German
Distance: 9.0934% / 0.09093423
42.0 ANF
28.8 WHG
26.4 CHG
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Spanish_Murcia
Distance: 5.3470% / 0.05346966
56.4 ANF
21.0 WHG
16.2 CHG
3.6 MAR_Taforalt
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: English
Distance: 9.8334% / 0.09833404
40.6 ANF
30.2 WHG
26.4 CHG
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Danish
Distance: 10.2595% / 0.10259532
37.4 ANF
32.0 WHG
27.8 CHG
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Irish
Distance: 10.2925% / 0.10292459
38.2 ANF
30.6 WHG
28.0 CHG
3.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Austrian
Distance: 8.5950% / 0.08595007
43.6 ANF
27.0 WHG
26.2 CHG
3.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Dutch
Distance: 9.9488% / 0.09948778
39.2 ANF
30.2 WHG
27.2 CHG
3.4 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Swedish
Distance: 10.3579% / 0.10357917
35.4 ANF
33.4 WHG
27.2 CHG
4.0 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Finnish_Central
Distance: 11.7115% / 0.11711519
36.4 WHG
27.8 CHG
24.8 ANF
11.0 EastAsian_Siberian

[Eurafricanid]

Anyway if you look at the way everyone is plotting there is a bit of a Crescent shape where Northern Europeans get slightly closer to East Asians until you hit Slavs and Balts whom guess what have the lowest MENA and then high CHG content southern Europeans like Sicilians and Cretan Greeks get almost as close as Northern Europeans excluding Finns and others that have obvious modern Asian mixture. You can clearly see the region of Europe with the least affinity for Asians is northern Italy southern France and Spain whereas the most is Dutch Russians Ugrics and Scandinavians.

The reality is a bit more fluid and less clear cutt as this, but yeah

[Ænglishman]

I was curious about this and then I run the model with North/Western Euro samples:

It's certainly interesting, to say the least:

Target: Spanish_Andalucia
Distance: 5.6853% / 0.05685279
55.0 ANF
21.4 WHG
17.6 CHG
4.4 MAR_Taforalt
1.6 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 5.9232% / 0.05923189
56.8 ANF
21.8 WHG
17.2 CHG
2.2 MAR_Taforalt
2.0 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 5.8991% / 0.05899121
56.0 ANF
22.6 WHG
17.0 CHG
2.2 EastAsian_Siberian
2.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Basque_Spanish
Distance: 6.8213% / 0.06821260
58.2 ANF
27.8 WHG
11.8 CHG
2.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 6.0643% / 0.06064345
60.4 ANF
21.0 CHG
16.4 WHG
2.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: French_Auvergne
Distance: 6.9942% / 0.06994220
52.8 ANF
24.4 WHG
20.4 CHG
2.4 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: French_Paris
Distance: 8.4003% / 0.08400337
48.8 ANF
26.0 WHG
22.8 CHG
2.4 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Welsh
Distance: 9.6514% / 0.09651357
40.8 ANF
30.2 WHG
26.4 CHG
2.6 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: German
Distance: 9.0934% / 0.09093423
42.0 ANF
28.8 WHG
26.4 CHG
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Spanish_Murcia
Distance: 5.3470% / 0.05346966
56.4 ANF
21.0 WHG
16.2 CHG
3.6 MAR_Taforalt
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: English
Distance: 9.8334% / 0.09833404
40.6 ANF
30.2 WHG
26.4 CHG
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Danish
Distance: 10.2595% / 0.10259532
37.4 ANF
32.0 WHG
27.8 CHG
2.8 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Irish
Distance: 10.2925% / 0.10292459
38.2 ANF
30.6 WHG
28.0 CHG
3.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Austrian
Distance: 8.5950% / 0.08595007
43.6 ANF
27.0 WHG
26.2 CHG
3.2 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Dutch
Distance: 9.9488% / 0.09948778
39.2 ANF
30.2 WHG
27.2 CHG
3.4 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Swedish
Distance: 10.3579% / 0.10357917
35.4 ANF
33.4 WHG
27.2 CHG
4.0 EastAsian_Siberian

Target: Finnish_Central
Distance: 11.7115% / 0.11711519
36.4 WHG
27.8 CHG
24.8 ANF
11.0 EastAsian_Siberian

Well here is the thing I'll say, really this argument is almost all semantics because Europeans are Europeans and it doesn't matter how we classify them or how we break down these parts they are what they are and we can fight over how much of x component should be considered y for all eternity but the classification Mongoloid Caucasoid and Negroid were created thousands of years after these mixing events and this ancient crossover doesn't affect that at all; but if you just use basic math you can figure this out fairly easily. Yamna was supposedly between 50-60% ANE, and ANE is 22% East Asian that makes Yamna even on the low end 9.6% at least which makes modern Northern Europeans between 4.3-5.4~ East Asian derived. This was mediated by a Tianyuan like population though which is quite a bit more similar to West Eurasian populations than modern East Asians are 116480. The more complex part is figuring out how much of WHG is eastern in origin given the Asiatic element in WHG is much smaller and harder to pinpoint to any one source, though I think it was acquired through vestonice and sunghir like populations which means it might also be Tianyuan related.

[Eurafricanid]

Well here is the thing I'll say, really this argument is almost all semantics because Europeans are Europeans and it doesn't matter how we classify them or how we break down these parts they are what they are and we can fight over how much of x component should be considered y for all eternity but the classification Mongoloid Caucasoid and Negroid were created thousands of years after these mixing events and this ancient crossover doesn't affect that at all; but if you just use basic math you can figure this out fairly easily. Yamna was supposedly between 50-60% ANE, and ANE is 22% East Asian that makes Yamna even on the low end 9.6% at least which makes modern Northern Europeans between 4.3-5.4~ East Asian derived. This was mediated by a Tianyuan like population though which is quite a bit more similar to West Eurasian populations than modern East Asians are 116480. The more complex part is figuring out how much of WHG is eastern in origin given the Asiatic element in WHG is much smaller and harder to pinpoint to any one source, though I think it was acquired through vestonice and sunghir like populations which means it might also be Tianyuan related.

I agree with everything you said here, and all europeans are, mostly, a mix of those 3 components, and as you go closer to the borders of Europe, some transition is indeed going to happen (although not as much), we can see that in the Finns and Russian groups, in Spaniards and Portuguese, and in Greece (although this one is more connected to the outsider than the others).

[Ænglishman]

I agree with everything you said here, and all europeans are, mostly, a mix of those 3 components, and as you go closer to the borders of Europe, some transition is indeed going to happen (although not as much), we can see that in the Finns and Russian groups, in Spaniards and Portuguese, and in Greece (although this one is more connected to the outsider than the others).

Thank you so much for being cordial with me! First I stepped on everybody's toes saying Georgians aren't white in the traditional sense ( only maybe from the perspective of Sicilians and some Greeks ) then me and Feiichy both had a tantrum over ANF but finally we have arrived here, at civility!

[Eurafricanid]

Thank you so much for being cordial with me! First I stepped on everybody's toes saying Georgians aren't white in the traditional sense ( only maybe from the perspective of Sicilians and some Greeks ) then me and Feiichy both had a tantrum over ANF but finally we have arrived here, at civility!

Yeah, :thumb001:, although I still consider ANF as a midpoint component, not as purelly MENA or European, I see how you might think it's a purelly MENA component, but I just can't see it that.

[Eurafricanid]

Thank you so much for being cordial with me! First I stepped on everybody's toes saying Georgians aren't white in the traditional sense ( only maybe from the perspective of Sicilians and some Greeks ) then me and Feiichy both had a tantrum over ANF but finally we have arrived here, at civility!

Sicilians and some Greeks are indeed European, but still, characteristically, an Eastern Mediterranean group.

[Ænglishman]

Sicilians and some Greeks are indeed European, but still, characteristically, an Eastern Mediterranean group.

Oh, that's what I meant only that they might be close enough to consider Georgians their folk. Also I agree ANF is mixed but it's definitely closer to the Near East than to most Europeans. I like to use French or Hungarians as the standard for Europeans because Northerners are a bit too extreme in the direction of paleolithic Europe and Asia and Southerners are a bit too MENA shifted to be the center around which we base European. Not that I want to be French or anything like that it's just a good middle ground for what's "pure" because we are all going to be closer to it than to any of the weird stuff that only we would consider to be our kinsmen.

[NSXD60]

All Caucasoids are probably related, but Steppe Caucs must've left a Med region 30 or more thousand years ago at a time when that region had halfway differentiated itself from its Mena ancestors, but while the Steppe Caucs remained relatively isolated, the original Med region from time to time would receive North African migrants, preventing them from evolving like their Steppe cousins.

[Jana]

Yes I do, because WHG EHG and WSH all carried minor mongoloid mixture as would Iran neolithic and CHG due to their ANE component it just depends upon how far back you go to define these components. ANF is the only part of European ancestry that lacks any mongoloid mixture because it seems to have mixed not directly with WHG but something closely related but ancestral to it thus avoiding mixture with paleolithic Europeans whom were just as Asian shifted as EHG whom are almost as Asian shifted as Saami.

No you don't. English have zero. By mongoloid I mean real mongoloid from actual Eurasian tribes and not some "shifts" in ancient components that all Europeans have.

Stop trying to be exotic, you are just a "boring" white guy genetically.

But since you are white American you may have some SSA instead especially if you have southern colonial roots.

[Jana]

He probably has, but its minor (<2%) and ancient, certainly came from ANE.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfGg6pjCOA248pRcWfqd5qbs8uA97SD 1EzEg&usqp=CAU

Ofcourse he doesn't, only Europeans with mongoloid ancestry are those like Finns, Russians, Romanians, Hungarians....

ANE isn't mongoloid. It is ancient component ancestral to caucasians and amerindians with mong like affinity but when we say mongoloid we mean actual mongoloid like uralic, cuman, tatar, avar or turkish admixture.

English score zero mongoloid on all admixture runs. Let's stop trolling, he may have a yellow fetish but Brits are as mongoloid as Congolese are white.

[wvwvw]

Geographically Georgia is part of Europe, as is the whole Caucasus region.

Caucasians are white so they are Caucasian European.

[Jana]

Geographically Georgia is part of Europe, as is the whole Caucasus region.

Caucasians are white so they are Caucasian European.

Georgia is entirely Asian geographically and their genetics is entirely west Asian too.
Only northern Caucasus is geographically in Europe, but people living there aren't European.

[Russki]

Ofcourse he doesn't, only Europeans with mongoloid ancestry are those like Finns, Russians, Romanians, Hungarians....


Actually, after adding ANE reference only Finns still get Asian admixture, which I consider 100% legit.

Some Russians also, but not most of them.


https://sun9-20.userapi.com/impg/Gey8bzRoen35xRAgJ4tRTaJBlMU_S5TRXu8KzQ/pI2rnkdkq2s.jpg?size=795x491&quality=95&sign=ae4c9b0e5081aa030fb8a9891453cded&type=album

[Marshall Theodore]

Geographically Georgia is part of Europe, as is the whole Caucasus region.

Its not, thats NW West Asia


Caucasians are white so they are Caucasian European.

They are not



ANE isn't mongoloid. It is ancient component ancestral to caucasians and amerindians with mong like affinity but when we say mongoloid we mean actual mongoloid like uralic, cuman, tatar, avar or turkish admixture.

ANE obviously isnt mongoloid, but a mixed component with mongoloid (Tianyuan) stock, Dodecad V3 can model ANE as 70% West Eurasian + 30 East Eurasian. Brits arent mongoloid, thats obvious, just like Southern Europeans as a whole arent "Negroids" or "MENA".

[Marshall Theodore]

Actually, after adding ANE reference only Finns still get Asian admixture, which I consider 100% legit.

Some Russians also, but not most of them.


https://sun9-20.userapi.com/impg/Gey8bzRoen35xRAgJ4tRTaJBlMU_S5TRXu8KzQ/pI2rnkdkq2s.jpg?size=795x491&quality=95&sign=ae4c9b0e5081aa030fb8a9891453cded&type=album

So who makes these graphics?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcDN5h8_7ak09fOiSgkKowRGrCDJMBw ftpQg&usqp=CAU

[Lplius]

You need to cope 2 times.


here are globally closest populations (all continents included) to ENF. Sardinians, north Italians, Basques and Spaniards peak in this admixture.

First to accept that ENF is closer to MENAs than to the majority of Europeans:


Distanceto: TUR_Barcin_N
0.12269966 Sephardic_Jew
0.12346224 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.15419045 Lebanese_Muslim
0.16247961 Armenian_Aintab
0.16466249 Jordanian
0.16606497 Palestinian
0.16932485 Syrian
0.17536161 Georgian_Meskheti
0.17640103 BedouinA
0.18657758 Yemenite_Amran
0.18670160 SaudiA
0.18880679 Iraqi
0.19028894 Roma_Madrid
0.19453659 Egyptian
0.20142964 Hungarian
0.20248647 German
0.20274817 French_Brittany
0.21074987 English
0.21098146 Dutch
0.22038129 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.23147346 Swedish
0.23170930 Polish
0.23534885 Russian_Belgorod
0.25469729 Lithuanian_PA

Do you even know what the TUR in TUR_Barcin_N stands for? :laugh:

And second to accept that European farmers are Middle Eastern in origins because they're the product of West Asian farmers moving north and westward.

From The genetic structure of the world’s first farmers:


The impact of the Near Eastern farmers extended beyond the Near East: farmers related to those of Anatolia spread westward into Europe

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/06/16/059311/F4.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

And more:

Admixture did not only occur within the Near East but extended towards Europe. To the north, a population related to people of the Iran Chalcolithic contributed ~43% of the ancestry of early Bronze Age populations of the steppe.

And if you prefer a more amateurish look:


Distanceto: TUR_Barcin_N
0.12499509 Levant_PPNB
0.22184249 Levant_Natufian
0.45965913 WHG


Target: TUR_Barcin_N
Distance: 11.5618% / 0.11561791
86.2 Levant_PPNB
7.6 WHG
6.2 GEO_CHG



It is about as MENA as Prince Harry children are white. :laugh:

If the children of West Asian farmers and European Hunter Gatherers are 100% European then the son of a white and black couple is 100% European too. Mulattos are white and European because they aren't black :laugh: According to your own logic of course.

[Lplius]

African in Spaniards is NA, therefore caucasoid, not SSA (except for guanches/canarians), meanwhile americans usually have almost North Euro stock, and Northern Euros have the highest scores of ANE (especially Balts) and ANEs were around 20% Tianyuan mongoloid, so stop trolling.

Iberomaurusian "aFriCan" is ANA (ghost population) not SSA.

That's some nice cope too. More so considering you're Brazilian.

[Lplius]

When I said SSA I included east africans as well, but nevertheless they are still very far away from northern euros according to your own fact check https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116475&d=1669846781

That's not how it works. Indians or Aboriginal Australians aren't part African yet they're closer on the plot. Some populations are more basal and other more drifted.

[Marshall Theodore]

That's some nice cope too. More so considering you're Brazilian.

Better call "cope" your insecurity with georgians and other caucasians being white or not.

There's no necessity of spamming my nationatily, seems to be obsession/fetish or even a Ad hominem.

[Jana]

First to accept that ENF is closer to MENAs than to the majority of Europeans:

Irrelevant. They are closer to them only because of steppe and extra WHG in Europeans, not because middle easterners score Barcin N or have it in any significant amounts, as runs have showed. Cope.


children of West Asian farmers and European Hunter Gatherers are 100% European then the son of a white and black couple is 100% European too. Mulattos are white and European because they aren't black :laugh: According to your own logic of course.

No, a sandnigger like you is not and will never be European or white.

You are brown and I hope your repulsive kind will be cleansed from Europe soon when the time is right.

[Lplius]

So who makes these graphics?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcDN5h8_7ak09fOiSgkKowRGrCDJMBw ftpQg&usqp=CAU

I don't know but using sources ranging from a modern population to a 20k yo one is pretty stupid because the modern is also made up of ancestral populations and the calculator will prefer the most recent.

[wvwvw]

Its not, thats NW West Asia



They are not



ANE obviously isnt mongoloid, but a mixed component with mongoloid (Tianyuan) stock, Dodecad V3 can model ANE as 70% West Eurasian + 30 East Eurasian. Brits arent mongoloid, thats obvious, just like Southern Europeans as a whole arent "Negroids" or "MENA".

NW Asia is part of Europe, just like Scandinavia, the Balkans, Southern Europe is. That's why they are participating in every European organization and their flag look more like England's than those in the -stan republics.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdYtqKB-YDcrA-nUxs_Cicb1XYol2oRsrX0syfld1pnSAEOi4-nw16KOm55mcr&s=10

Genetically they are West Asians

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Admixture/GEORGIAN.jpg

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Admixture/CAUCASIAN.jpg

[Lplius]

Better call "cope" your insecurity with georgians and other caucasians being white or not.

There's no necessity of spamming my nationatily, seems to be obsession/fetish or even a Ad hominem.

Reminding it was you who first brought it up. I just point out how ironic is that a Brazilian who most likely have ancestors shipped straight from Africa, invents that North Africans don't have SSA thus neither his Iberian ancestors. Fine, you're not 1% SSA via Europe but 20% via Angola.
Georgians though, sharing the same ancestral components as Europeans but in different proportions, can't have some individuals who are white. Whatever.

[Lplius]

Irrelevant. They are closer to them only because of steppe and extra WHG in Europeans, not because middle easterners score Barcin N or have it in any significant amounts, as runs have showed. Cope.



No, a sandnigger like you is not and will never be European or white.

You are brown and I hope your repulsive kind will be cleansed from Europe soon when the time is right.

If I could push I button to cleanse all foreigners in Europe I'd do it in a heartbeat because I'm European and native to my land as much as you are, but this has nothing to do with the fact that ENF ultimately comes from the Middle East and that a tiny % of West Asians look fully white.