Why i score so much MENA? Its this real or misread?

[Jingle Bell]

Hi everyone, i make this thread bcs since i get my Gedmatch results i got surprised by how much MENA i score
and when i get my g25 this MENA is even more present, so im here to ask if this is misread ENF or is real

some of my results:

Population: K13 Eurogenes
North_Atlantic 14.63 Pct
Baltic 3.96 Pct
West_Med 17.07 Pct
West_Asian 1.96 Pct
East_Med 8.86 Pct
Red_Sea 3.23 Pct
South_Asian 1.27 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 3.05 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 5.12 Pct
Sub-Saharan 40.85 Pct

Population: K15 V2 Eurogenes
North_Sea 3.29 Pct
Atlantic 13.99 Pct
Baltic 3.11 Pct
Eastern_Euro 3.66 Pct
West_Med 14.17 Pct
West_Asian 0.1 Pct
East_Med 8.48 Pct
Red_Sea 3.27 Pct
South_Asian 0.91 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 2.82 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 4.58 Pct
Sub-Saharan 41.63 Pct


Standart Ancient g25:


Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 2.1367% / 0.02136749
42.0 Yoruba
24.4 TUR_Barcin_N
11.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.2 WHG
4.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
3.2 ETH_4500BP
3.0 MAR_Taforalt
2.4 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


Ancient Iberian Calculator, By Jgab602:


Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 0.9095% / 0.00909550
44.2 SSA
14.0 Gaul
13.0 Iberian-Propper_IA
8.4 Arab_Ruler
7.6 Hispano_Celt_IA
5.8 Berber_IA/MA
3.0 Amerindian
2.0 Phoenician
1.8 Greek_Settler
0.2 Sephardic_Jew

K100 by Alwakeel:

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.6937% / 0.01693672
41.0 West_African_Niger-Congo
31.0 Basque
8.2 Mountain_Jew
6.0 North_Africa
3.2 Egypt
2.6 Amazonian
2.6 Southern_African_Niger-Congo
2.4 Baltics
1.4 Sardinia
1.0 Balochistan
0.6 Northern_Arabia

Far i know (And i know few) i only have ssa, portuguese and little native ancestry, with one surname which can sugest some serfadi, but its very distant
So what u guys think? Its real mena ancestry? Misread ENF? Or my Portuguese ancestors were just more Natufian/CHG shifetd? well, idk.

Ty

[ecptr]

Iberians have literal SSA ancestry and you ask why you have so much MENA.

[StonyArabia]

Probably Lebanese ancestry if you are from Brazil

[Jingle Bell]

Iberians have literal SSA ancestry and you ask why you have so much MENA.

what u mean?
iberians dont score any ssa, guy
just canarians and azorians but they arent continental europeans

[Jingle Bell]

Probably Lebanese ancestry if you are from Brazil

yeah can be some distant, but im my region we got very very few imigrants, mostly lebaneses, syrians and etc. . principal destiny was SE and in a minor number S region

[Gallop]

Como dicen en Eupedia has de tomártelo como un grano de sal, como un pequeño, diminuto y mi-cros-có-pi-co grano de sal, salvo cuando te interese, entonces te lo tomas como un pedrusco bien gordo, jeje

HLPDCCLPI EHDLGPNHOC

[Beowulf]

Quizas por la parte portuguesa haya judios? e visto que quizas hay algunos portugueses con mas MENA que españoles sobretodo los del sur pero no estoy muy enterado siendo de Brasil puede ser cualquier cosa es un pais de muchas culturas y grupos etnicos.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Are your G25 coordinates real or simulated? There's likely some extra Arab, North African or Jewish ancestry IMO.

G25


Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 0.0233% / 0.02331918 | R3P
51.7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
45.7 Esan_Nigeria
2.6 Surui

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 0.0180% / 0.01795986 | R4P
45.3 Esan_Nigeria
39.9 Basque_Gipuzkoa
12.3 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
2.5 Surui

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 0.0150% / 0.01498986 | R5P
37.7 Basque_Gipuzkoa
37.2 Esan_Nigeria
15.8 Egyptian
6.7 Bantu_S.E.
2.6 Surui

Eurogenes K13


Target: Jingle_Bell
Distance: 2.8233% / 2.82325851 | R4P
47.5 Bantu_S.W.
33.3 North_Italian
16.1 Sardinian
3.1 Karitiana

Target: Jingle_Bell
Distance: 1.6617% / 1.66167564 | R5P
45.6 Mandenka
28.9 Spanish_Galicia
16.5 Sardinian
5.9 Bedouin
3.1 Karitiana

Target: Jingle_Bell
Distance: 0.8220% / 0.82201266 | R6P
44.7 Mandenka
26.3 Spanish_Galicia
15.3 Sardinian
8.0 Moroccan
2.9 Karitiana
2.8 Kalash

[Jingle Bell]

Are your G25 coordinates real or simulated? There's likely some extra Arab, North African or Jewish ancestry IMO.

G25


Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 0.0233% / 0.02331918 | R3P
51.7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
45.7 Esan_Nigeria
2.6 Surui

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 0.0180% / 0.01795986 | R4P
45.3 Esan_Nigeria
39.9 Basque_Gipuzkoa
12.3 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
2.5 Surui

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 0.0150% / 0.01498986 | R5P
37.7 Basque_Gipuzkoa
37.2 Esan_Nigeria
15.8 Egyptian
6.7 Bantu_S.E.
2.6 Surui

Eurogenes K13


Target: Jingle_Bell
Distance: 2.8233% / 2.82325851 | R4P
47.5 Bantu_S.W.
33.3 North_Italian
16.1 Sardinian
3.1 Karitiana

Target: Jingle_Bell
Distance: 1.6617% / 1.66167564 | R5P
45.6 Mandenka
28.9 Spanish_Galicia
16.5 Sardinian
5.9 Bedouin
3.1 Karitiana

Target: Jingle_Bell
Distance: 0.8220% / 0.82201266 | R6P
44.7 Mandenka
26.3 Spanish_Galicia
15.3 Sardinian
8.0 Moroccan
2.9 Karitiana
2.8 Kalash

Are real g25, from illustrativeDNA, maybe residual percentages from Al-Andalus, Jews and maybe Roman too idk

[Jingle Bell]

Quizas por la parte portuguesa haya judios? e visto que quizas hay algunos portugueses con mas MENA que españoles sobretodo los del sur pero no estoy muy enterado siendo de Brasil puede ser cualquier cosa es un pais de muchas culturas y grupos etnicos.

Yeah, one of my surname can have serfadi origin, but its distant and dont rly makes sense a so distant thing be 7% of my DNA idk

[Laredo]

Sephardic Jewish heritage.

[Jingle Bell]

Double Post.

[Jingle Bell]

Triple Post, lmao why TA is so lagged

[Eurafricanid]

I think it's probably a mix of a lot of different sorts, like, for example a more South West-shifted Portuguese + some Roman and Sephardic ancestry +/or Fulani/Hausa (More N. African shifted SSA) ancestry too + some East African heritage is also possible, as we see here:

https://i.imgur.com/OxoMn5W.png
https://i.imgur.com/bj3P4vk.png

You might have some East African ancestry, which is more Middle Eastern shifted, all of this together, might give you significant MENA ancestry.

When you compare that to my results, my African is much more concetrated in the Western/South Western side of Africa:

https://i.imgur.com/E79sl6H.jpg

(Athough I whould take this company with a grain of salt, it's still pretty ok when the matter is African and (broad) Jewish Ancestry)

[Damião de Góis]

If you wish to speculate, then it's known some jewish people migrated to Brazil when they were expelled or told to convert.


The Papal Bull establishing the Inquisition in Portugal was issued in 1536 under the reign of King João III. In the 17 and 18th centuries, the inquisitorial processes intensified and as a result, there was a significant exodus of Jewish people to other countries, particularly of manufacturers and the merchant elite (Paulo, 1985)..By the end of the 15th century estimates of the size of the Jewish population were of about 100 000 people, which translates into 10% of all the Portuguese population at that time. The exact number of people who emigrated is not known, however, it is thought that in 1631 the Jewish population was reduced to 10 000 (Carvalho, 1999). Initially, the Portuguese Jews settled in Amsterdam, London, Hamburg, Turkey, some French and Italian cities, and North Africa; from the mid-16th century, they migrated to the Portuguese colonies in Africa, India and Brazil, and later from the several cities of northern Europe to the New World,


Several studies refer to the putative contribution of Sephardic Jews to the Y chromosome genetic pool of particular geographic regions, like the Azores and Madeira islands (Goncalves et al., 2005; Pacheco et al., 2005) and also to the New-World, such as Brazil (Carvalho-Silva et al., 2001) or New Mexico and southern Colorado (Sutton et al., 2006), where many populations settled, including migrants from Portugal/Iberia.


https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2015.00012/full

[Jingle Bell]

I think it's probably a mix of a lot of different sorts, like, for example a more South West-shifted Portuguese + some Roman and Sephardic ancestry +/or Fulani/Hausa (More N. African shifted SSA) ancestry too + some East African heritage is also possible, as we see here:

https://i.imgur.com/OxoMn5W.png
https://i.imgur.com/bj3P4vk.png

You might have some East African ancestry, which is more Middle Eastern shifted, all of this together, might give you significant MENA ancestry.

When you compare that to my results, my African is much more concetrated in the Western/South Western side of Africa:

https://i.imgur.com/E79sl6H.jpg

(Athough I whould take this company with a grain of salt, it's still pretty ok when the matter is African and (broad) Jewish Ancestry)

Yeah 5% of Horn/East African generally dont show up in my g25 results, and when it show up my MENA downs in a considerable % which makes more sense:

with no MENA samples:

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.4979% / 0.01497905
38.6 SSA:Nigeria:Yoruba
21.6 Spanish_Galicia:GAL26
14.4 Spanish_Galicia:GAL35
12.4 Spanish_Galicia:GAL24
6.2 SSA:Ethiopian_Eritrea:Eritrean
2.8 SSA:South_Africa:Ronga
2.4 Native_American:Amazonian:Bolivian_LaPaz
1.0 SSA:South_Africa:Ju_hoan_North
0.6 SSA:Central_African_Hunter-Gatherers:Mbuti

with mena samples:

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.2294% / 0.01229416
37.8 SSA:Nigeria:Yoruba
21.0 Spanish_Galicia:GAL26
11.4 Spanish_Galicia:GAL24
10.4 Spanish_Galicia:GAL35
5.2 SSA:South_Africa:Ronga
4.8 Arabian_Peninsula:Yemeni_Al_Bayda
3.8 Egypt:Egyptian_Tanta
1.6 Spanish_Galicia:HG01686
1.4 Native_American:South_Amerindian:Karitiana
1.0 SSA:South_Africa:Ju_hoan_North
1.0 Native_American:Amazonian:Bolivian_LaPaz
0.6 SSA:Central_African_Hunter-Gatherers:Mbuti

the distance low a bit, but now i score 0% east African which dont match with my Genera, maybe one part of my "MENA" its just some of my misread East African heritage, the other part prob comes from South shifted Portuguese ancestors + some Jewish

[Jingle Bell]

If you wish to speculate, then it's known some jewish people migrated to Brazil when they were expelled or told to convert.

Thanks for the text, it's very informative, I believe that a part of this MENA does come from these Jews, but a part of this MENA must also come perhaps from East African contributions and Moorish remnants, here's how I look if I add a Jewish sample:
(Im using Galician samples bcs i get better distances with Galician than portuguese samples and bcs my Portugueses ancestors were mostly minhotos/northenhos)

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.3989% / 0.01398863
47.0 SSA
42.2 Spanish_Galicia
7.6 Sephardim
2.4 Native_American
0.8 Berber_IA/MA

Looks probable and the distance looks good too


*just a add, mostly Serfadi who comes to Brazil get in NE region, my region so makes even more sense too

[Jingle Bell]

More opnions?

[Gallop]

12private_sefarad_samples average,0.091817,0.146152,-0.020710,-0.059163,0.008540,-0.021242,-0.004250,-0.005384,0.010362,0.019454,0.003573,0.001311,0.002 899,0.000436,-0.004807,-0.000541,0.000206,-0.001172,-0.003991,-0.003741,-0.002111,-0.001576,0.004108,-0.001125,0.001886


Qué distancia obtines con esta coordenada?

[Jingle Bell]

Qué distancia obtines con esta coordenada?

Using averages from Iberia, Africa and America Natives:

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.9280% / 0.01928021
43.4 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
42.2 West_African_Niger-Congo:Igbo
6.8 12private_sefarad_samplesaverage
3.0 East_African_Afro-Asiatic:Ethiopian_Amhara
3.0 Amazonian:Bolivian_LaPaz
1.6 Southern_African_Niger-Congo:Bantu_S.E.

The distance looks ok, but its bcs im using average, later i will try with individual like in my signature

Ty for the sample gallop! :)

[Marshall Theodore]

Iberians have literal SSA ancestry and you ask why you have so much MENA.

Which Iberians? the average e.g for southern portuguese is pratically at noise level, only canarians, azoreans and madeirans score this "literall SSA"

[Marshall Theodore]

Answering to OP:

Your high MENA is already explained by jgab602, but imo its also probably due to some expelled converso who migrated to Brazil centuries ago, a was said by Damião de Góis.

Or even a lebanese ancestor, who knows...

[Gallop]

Using averages from Iberia, Africa and America Natives:

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.9280% / 0.01928021
43.4 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
42.2 West_African_Niger-Congo:Igbo
6.8 12private_sefarad_samplesaverage
3.0 East_African_Afro-Asiatic:Ethiopian_Amhara
3.0 Amazonian:Bolivian_LaPaz
1.6 Southern_African_Niger-Congo:Bantu_S.E.

The distance looks ok, but its bcs im using average, later i will try with individual like in my signature

Ty for the sample gallop! :)

You have obtained

And with just the sample I send you what distance do you get?

[Jingle Bell]

You have obtained

And with just the sample I send you what distance do you get?

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 4.4380% / 0.04438024
51.4 12private_sefarad_samplesaverage
40.6 West_African_Niger-Congo:Igbo
3.6 Indigenous_South_America:Quechua
2.6 Central-West_African_Niger-Congo:Tikar_South
1.4 Southern_African_Niger-Congo:Bantu_S.E.
0.4 Mesoamerica:Mixtec

4 of distance, very high without any pure iberian sample

[Jingle Bell]

Answering to OP:

Your high MENA is already explained by jgab602, but imo its also probably due to some expelled converso who migrated to Brazil centuries ago, a was said by Damião de Góis.

Or even a lebanese ancestor, who knows...

Yeah idk all my GG grandpa/mas so can be maybe one was a Syrian-Lebanese who knows

[Gallop]

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.9280% / 0.01928021
43.4 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
42.2 West_African_Niger-Congo:Igbo
6.8 12private_sefarad_samplesaverage
3.0 East_African_Afro-Asiatic:Ethiopian_Amhara
3.0 Amazonian:Bolivian_LaPaz
1.6 Southern_African_Niger-Congo:Bantu_S.E.

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 4.4380% / 0.04438024
51.4 12private_sefarad_samplesaverage
40.6 West_African_Niger-Congo:Igbo
3.6 Indigenous_South_America:Quechua
2.6 Central-West_African_Niger-Congo:Tikar_South
1.4 Southern_African_Niger-Congo:Bantu_S.E.
0.4 Mesoamerica:Mixtec

4 of distance, very high without any pure iberian sample


You seem to be heading in the right direction.

[Petalpusher]

Likely nothing more than half Iberian, half SSA. It's just some of the SSA is East African which has some old mena in it. Your K13 East med is not even that high, doubling it. West Asian even less, which indicates nothing recent.

[Jingle Bell]

Likely nothing more than half Iberian, half SSA. It's just some of the SSA is East African which has some old mena in it. Your K13 East med is not even that high, doubling it. West Asian even less, which indicates nothing recent.

Ty for ur opnion
yeah East Africans can score a lot of MENA so prob comes from this part