Do Irish people pass better in Estonia or Spain?

[ecptr]

Do Irish people pass better in Estonia or Spain?

[Cristiano viejo]

Spain lives continuosly in your mind :)

[Oliver109]

Spain, a lot of Irish have thick dark eyebrows which look very woggy for Estonia

[Gallop]

Totaly Spain is Top while there are countries that nobody cares about and nobody talks about them. :)

[Jingle Bell]

Spain, for a good diference
Estonia have a strong Eastern Euro look in my opnion, while Spain is more diverse having some NW looking ppl and Ireland have some Med looking ppl too so

also Irishs are closer genetically to Spain than to Balts since the Bell Beaker and Celtic connection
116932
116933

[Septentrion]

Estonia or any other Northern European country over Spain.

[sean]

Let's see

Irish:

https://imgur.com/F9oBR3a.gif
https://imgur.com/tNmyPhD.gif

Estonia:

https://imgur.com/UMn4RYZ.gif
https://imgur.com/PfARZG4.gif

Spain:

https://imgur.com/1E3H5pS.gif
https://imgur.com/Y9zMh0W.gif

Verdict: Estonia.

The Irish look MORE similar to Estonians than they do to Southern Europeans imo.

[Sharpshooter]

Estonia or any other Northern European country over Spain.

Yes, the Irish-Iberia myth continues to exist no matter what evidence you throw at those who continue to believe it.

Its usually pushed by those who hold anti Irish prejudices. Ulster loyalists continue to push it as do many English ethnonationalists.

So powerful is the belief that I reckon if you started a poll with who's closer to the Irish, England or Spain, most people would probably pick Spain!

[Ruggery]

Yes, the Irish-Iberia myth continues to exist no matter what evidence you throw at those who continue to believe it.

Its usually pushed by those who hold anti Irish prejudices. Ulster loyalists continue to push it as do many English ethnonationalists.

So powerful is the belief that I reckon if you started a poll with who's closer to the Irish, England or Spain, most people would probably pick Spain!
Do these people still believe that?

[Vanily]

Latitude > longitude when it comes to phenotypic similarities.

[Marshall Theodore]

Let's see

Irish:

https://imgur.com/F9oBR3a.gif
https://imgur.com/tNmyPhD.gif

Estonia:

https://imgur.com/UMn4RYZ.gif
https://imgur.com/PfARZG4.gif

Spain:

https://imgur.com/1E3H5pS.gif
https://imgur.com/Y9zMh0W.gif

Verdict: Estonia.

The Irish look MORE similar to Estonians than they do to Southern Europeans imo.

Nice gifs

[Grace O'Malley]

I'll go with neither. Irish are fairly obvious to pick if you have group pictures.

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/resizer/-1/-1/true/1569774660336.jpg--.jpg?1569774660396

http://castleknock.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/U21_Hurlers_2021-1.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu1dkI4WcAIdKr8?format=jpg&name=large

https://softco.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/hockey4.jpg

[Annihilus]

Irish too distinct, I'll pass

[Ruggery]

Nice gifs

I bet he pulls them from Reddit or Tik Tok.

[Rædwald]

Estonia, Dark Irish are overestimated. Most of them are paper white.

[Tsuin]

Neither

[Incal]

I'd say it's a tie:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FktPXIFUoAAsCtn?format=jpg&name=900x900

[alnortedelsur]

https://imgur.com/1E3H5pS.gif

This Spanish girl looks like a Spanish version of Marisa Tomei, lol xD

[OreoMan]

Spain lives continuosly in your mind :)

Kinda like how big Dominican cock lives in yours.

[Odelia]

Totaly Spain is Top while there are countries that nobody cares about and nobody talks about them. :)
Because this is a European forum and Spain is a European country. Or do you want them to talk about Morocco? :rolleyes2:

Anyway, to answer this thread, I'd go with Estonia!

[Gallop]

Because this is a European forum and Spain is a European country. Or do you want them to talk about Morocco? :rolleyes2:

Anyway, to answer this thread, I'd go with Estonia!


Well, let's stick with Estonian olive oil. ;)

[Grace O'Malley]

Spain, a lot of Irish have thick dark eyebrows which look very woggy for Estonia

And what about the much higher amount of Irish with non thick dark eyebrows? Some of the stuff you come out with is just daft. :)

Irish also have the highest percentage of Skin Type I and II in Europe (in that most of the population is that type) and one of the higher percentages of blue eyes and red hair in a population. I think facial features are also something that needs to be taken into consideration. It all adds up to populations being more distinct from each other.

There is one person in this picture who I can see most probably has ancestry outside of Ireland. I'm sure it is obvious to most people.

https://www.laoistoday.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/WhatsApp-Image-2019-07-21-at-22.24.49-2.jpeg

[Cristiano viejo]

Yes, the Irish-Iberia myth continues to exist no matter what evidence you throw at those who continue to believe it.

Its usually pushed by those who hold anti Irish prejudices. Ulster loyalists continue to push it as do many English ethnonationalists.
And I understand that the Irish think that is a compliment.


So powerful is the belief that I reckon if you started a poll with who's closer to the Irish, England or Spain, most people would probably pick Spain!

Perhaps that happens in Ireland or England, not in Spain. Here Irish are seen as foreigners as Russians or Vietnamese could be and none, absolutely none thinks we have something in common.

[Ruggery]

And I understand that the Irish think that is a compliment.



Perhaps that happens in Ireland or England, not in Spain. Here Irish are seen as foreigners as Russians or Vietnamese could be and none, absolutely none thinks we have something in common.

Only some Galicians

[Grace O'Malley]

And I understand that the Irish think that is a compliment.



Perhaps that happens in Ireland or England, not in Spain. Here Irish are seen as foreigners as Russians or Vietnamese could be and none, absolutely none thinks we have something in common.

There are some Irish that still think they have some Spanish because of the Armada Myth. Irish have a positive opinion of Spain and many Irish like the idea of having some link to another country like Spain. There was also the Oppenheimer study which erroneously thought R1b came from the Ice Age and was holed up in the Franco-Cantabrian refuge and from there spread to the rest of Europe. So you will still get people that think the Insular Celts and Basque are closely related and many people think that Basques are the closest population to the Irish. They just aren't aware of later studies refuting this. This is where a lot of this stuff comes from and is still in circulation.

Generally most people have little knowledge of genetics or history for that matter. Most Irish and Spanish have no issues and from my experience countries like Spain and France are looked on positively in Ireland. There is no baggage with these countries like there is with Ireland's closest neighbour Britain. Now that is a complicated relationship. :) Even in that case most Irish and British get along fine.

Ireland has never had the complicated and difficult relationship that Britain and France have had. The Irish also are very much apart of the EU these days and have good relations with all EU countries.

[Creoda]

And I understand that the Irish think that is a compliment.

It wouldn't be used to troll the Irish if it was a compliment.

[Grace O'Malley]

It wouldn't be used to troll the Irish if it was a compliment.

Don't be stirring up trouble Creoda. :p

In all honesty Irish and Spanish like each other. This forum gives a bad view of all populations with the way people carry on.

This girl is from a Spanish/Irish union and I think she is lovely.

https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2017/05/Redhead_1.jpg

[Anglo-Celtic]

https://imgur.com/1E3H5pS.gif

This Spanish girl looks like a Spanish version of Marisa Tomei, lol xD

My last immigrant ancestor came from the Republic of Ireland, but I share her coloring. It must be my 2% Sicilian ancestry.

[Grace O'Malley]

My last immigrant ancestor came from the Republic of Ireland, but I share her coloring. It must be my 2% Sicilian ancestry.

Her colouring looks average for Europeans. By that I mean she isn't dark. She's very pretty. Not all Irish are lily white either. There are some with darker colouring it is just that it is less common but you do get variance in all populations.

[Mortimer]

Yes, the Irish-Iberia myth continues to exist no matter what evidence you throw at those who continue to believe it.

Its usually pushed by those who hold anti Irish prejudices. Ulster loyalists continue to push it as do many English ethnonationalists.

So powerful is the belief that I reckon if you started a poll with who's closer to the Irish, England or Spain, most people would probably pick Spain!

In my opinion the Irish are the same as the British or English, the divide is superficial I think both are celto-germanic, the irish have some scandinavian and such too, maybe the english very slightly more but both are a mix of germanic and celtic, and they are to me the same. To me the British Isles is the same.

[Creoda]

Don't be stirring up trouble Creoda. :p

In all honesty Irish and Spanish like each other. This forum gives a bad view of all populations with the way people carry on.

This girl is from a Spanish/Irish union and I think she is lovely.

https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2017/05/Redhead_1.jpg
Sorry, just had to state the obvious.

I'm sure they get on fine.

[Septentrion]

https://imgur.com/1E3H5pS.gif

This Spanish girl looks like a Spanish version of Marisa Tomei, lol xD

She is cute, that’s about it.

[Septentrion]

Spain, a lot of Irish have thick dark eyebrows which look very woggy for Estonia

Why are you exaggerating? There is isn’t much of a difference in terms of pigmentation between the Irish and Estonians. Only due to their different North European geography, the Estonians ( NE) and the Irish (NW). One tends to be more East Europid ( Estonians) and the other Cromagnid (Irish), both are larger heads people, the Irish in particular. The Estonians tend to have a stronger tendency towards blondness ( a higher frequency of medium to light blondes) while the Irish have much higher rufosity. They both represent extremes of Northern European depigmentation. In terms of light eyes, they are pretty close in frequency, not much of a difference. In terms of skin color, both are pretty fair-skinned, with the Irish have a much higher frequency of paler skin types ( I&II). Your «woggy» comment doesn’t hold with the Irish.
I’m definitely not implying that there aren’t any Irish who might look Spanish or Italian, sure they are. However when comparing the Irish as a whole, they are much closer to Northern European populations than Southern European ones.

[Septentrion]

Yes, the Irish-Iberia myth continues to exist no matter what evidence you throw at those who continue to believe it.

Its usually pushed by those who hold anti Irish prejudices. Ulster loyalists continue to push it as do many English ethnonationalists.

So powerful is the belief that I reckon if you started a poll with who's closer to the Irish, England or Spain, most people would probably pick Spain!

Correct.

[Cristiano viejo]

Only some Galicians
Galicians dont see Irish like brothers or something. They know Irish also play the bagpipe same than I know it, nothing else.


There are some Irish that still think they have some Spanish because of the Armada Myth.
I have no idea what happens in other countries. That does not happen in Spain, here nobody thinks we look or behave like Irish,or share ancestors or whatever, and we barely see an Irish in all our life. I even made a thread about a similar thing https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?368100-How-many-Irish-do-you-know


Irish have a positive opinion of Spain and many Irish like the idea of having some link to another country like Spain.
Spanish like Ireland because they are Catholic anti-British, and that is all.

[Tooting Carmen]

Neither especially.

[Septentrion]

Don't be stirring up trouble Creoda. :p

In all honesty Irish and Spanish like each other. This forum gives a bad view of all populations with the way people carry on.

This girl is from a Spanish/Irish union and I think she is lovely.

https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2017/05/Redhead_1.jpg

Oh, she is showing some Brunn phenotype.

[Ruggery]

There are some Irish that still think they have some Spanish because of the Armada Myth. Irish have a positive opinion of Spain and many Irish like the idea of having some link to another country like Spain. There was also the Oppenheimer study which erroneously thought R1b came from the Ice Age and was holed up in the Franco-Cantabrian refuge and from there spread to the rest of Europe. So you will still get people that think the Insular Celts and Basque are closely related and many people think that Basques are the closest population to the Irish. They just aren't aware of later studies refuting this. This is where a lot of this stuff comes from and is still in circulation.

Generally most people have little knowledge of genetics or history for that matter. Most Irish and Spanish have no issues and from my experience countries like Spain and France are looked on positively in Ireland. There is no baggage with these countries like there is with Ireland's closest neighbour Britain. Now that is a complicated relationship. :) Even in that case most Irish and British get along fine.

Ireland has never had the complicated and difficult relationship that Britain and France have had. The Irish also are very much apart of the EU these days and have good relations with all EU countries.

It has nothing to do with the thread but I have seen that many Irish people also like Argentina.

[Ruggery]

Don't be stirring up trouble Creoda. :p

In all honesty Irish and Spanish like each other. This forum gives a bad view of all populations with the way people carry on.

This girl is from a Spanish/Irish union and I think she is lovely.

https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2017/05/Redhead_1.jpg

Who is she?

[Anglo-Celtic]

Her colouring looks average for Europeans. By that I mean she isn't dark. She's very pretty. Not all Irish are lily white either. There are some with darker colouring it is just that it is less common but you do get variance in all populations.

This is true. You see that same variance in my own extended family where some of us look as related as typical Irishmen and typical Italians do.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Don't be stirring up trouble Creoda. :p

In all honesty Irish and Spanish like each other. This forum gives a bad view of all populations with the way people carry on.

This girl is from a Spanish/Irish union and I think she is lovely.

https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2017/05/Redhead_1.jpg

She has the coloring of my half Mexican ex. I look more Latino than she does.

[Septentrion]

And what about the much higher amount of Irish with non thick dark eyebrows? Some of the stuff you come out with is just daft. :)

Irish also have the highest percentage of Skin Type I and II in Europe (in that most of the population is that type) and one of the higher percentages of blue eyes and red hair in a population. I think facial features are also something that needs to be taken into consideration. It all adds up to populations being more distinct from each other.

There is one person in this picture who I can see most probably has ancestry outside of Ireland. I'm sure it is obvious to most people.

https://www.laoistoday.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/WhatsApp-Image-2019-07-21-at-22.24.49-2.jpeg


I think many people have become really ridiculous. They have always tirelessly tried to link Ireland to Spain by all kinds of lies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spain at all. However they are lying right out. The Irish are not Mediterranean, firstly they are the palest-skinned people on earth, secondly have the highest proportion of light and light-mixed eyes, thirdly the highest frequency for ginger hair in the world. So how is that Mediterranean? It really doesn’t make sense.

[Ruggery]

I think many people have become really ridiculous. They have always tirelessly tried to link Ireland to Spain by all kinds of lies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spain at all. However they are lying right out. The Irish are not Mediterranean, firstly they are the palest-skinned people on earth, secondly have the highest proportion of light and light-mixed eyes, thirdly the highest frequency for ginger hair in the world. So how is that Mediterranean? It really doesn’t make sense.

Of all the northern countries, it is the one with the most Mediterranean along with the UK, although no one says that it is the majority.

[Septentrion]

Of all the northern countries, it is the one with the most Mediterranean along with the UK, although no one says that it is the majority.

There is no “most Mediterranean” country in Northern Europe. I’m not going to delve into the U.K. right now, however Ireland in particular has a strong Cromagnid racial element of either Brunn or Paleo Atlantid origin. The Mediterranean racial element is minimal and if present, it is most often mixed with the Nordid. If Ireland was “so Mediterranean”, it wouldn’t as a whole have the palest-skinned, most freckled population. Dark hair in the Irish population is mostly of CM derivation much more so than Mediterranean.

In the same way, there is no “most Nordid” country in Southern Europe. The Nordid race is minimal in Southern Europe and has no importance whatsoever.

[Ruggery]

There is no “most Mediterranean” country in Northern Europe. I’m not going to delve into the U.K. right now, however Ireland in particular has a strong Cromagnid racial element of either Brunn or Paleo Atlantid origin. The Mediterranean racial element is minimal and if present, it is most often mixed with the Nordid. If Ireland was “so Mediterranean”, it wouldn’t as a whole have the palest-skinned, most freckled population. Dark hair in the Irish population is mostly of CM derivation much more so than Mediterranean.

In the same way, there is no “most Nordid” country in Southern Europe. The Nordid race is minimal in Southern Europe and has no importance whatsoever.
I'm not saying that, I'm saying that the med element is in a minority there than in Scandinavia, Atlanto Med for example can exist in the UK and Ireland in Scandinavia I don't think so.

[Grace O'Malley]

Who is she?

All I know is she is Alice who is half Irish and half Spanish from Dublin.

https://www.irishpost.com/life-style/photographer-captures-stunning-portraits-redhead-irish-women-help-stamp-bullying-120391

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that the med element is in a minority there than in Scandinavia, Atlanto Med for example can exist in the UK and Ireland in Scandinavia I don't think so.

I think there is some variation in all populations it is just that some looks are less common. Is Ola Rapace an Atlanto-Med? He's a Swede and his birth name is Pär Ola Norell. He is fully Swedish.

https://cineuropa.org/imgCache/2014/11/18/1416306338229_0620x0435_43x0x1115x782_157431393837 0.jpg

https://exgpotktzkv.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/ola-rapace.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1

He might just be Atlantid but he is darker than what the stereotype of Swedes is. I don't really hold much stock in classifications myself.

[Grace O'Malley]

It has nothing to do with the thread but I have seen that many Irish people also like Argentina.

I haven't met many Argentinians here in Australia but a few years ago I met a group of Argentinians. They were mostly family members and here on a holiday. We bonded over rugby. :)

[Septentrion]

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that the med element is in a minority there than in Scandinavia, Atlanto Med for example can exist in the UK and Ireland in Scandinavia I don't think so.

You cannot use isolated cases of Atlanto-Meds to rule an entire population of Northern Euros. Even as Coon says in Races of Europe In Ireland, “the Atlanto-Mediterranean element, if it were brown eyed and black haired, has completely lost its original pigment qualities through mixture.”

[Grace O'Malley]

I think many people have become really ridiculous. They have always tirelessly tried to link Ireland to Spain by all kinds of lies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spain at all. However they are lying right out. The Irish are not Mediterranean, firstly they are the palest-skinned people on earth, secondly have the highest proportion of light and light-mixed eyes, thirdly the highest frequency for ginger hair in the world. So how is that Mediterranean? It really doesn’t make sense.

I know where it comes from. The Milesian myth is one reason.

https://i.imgur.com/l42cLjT.png

https://www.libraryireland.com/Atlas/I-Milesians.php

This from Oppenheimer


Myths of British ancestry by Stephen Oppenheimer
Everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong. Our ancestors were Basques, not Celts. The Celts
were not wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons, in fact neither had much impact on the genetic stock of these islands

https://www.csueastbay.edu/museum/files/docs/exhibit/dna/dna-myths-british.pdf

With newer studies how wrong was he? :)

And of course the Celts which many people in the past believed the Irish were mostly descended from so people thought that populations in Western Europe were all linked by the Celts. Irish people do not have much Celtic dna at all as they are heavily influenced by the people that arrived in the Bronze Age.

Anyway you can see how this has happened.

The Bronze Age people in Ireland almost totally replaced any preceding population including Farmers like Ballynahatty. Irish most likely get there Farmer component from GAC which the Bell Beakers had already mixed with in Poland and Germany. I'm hoping more studies will come out this year looking at Medieval Ireland. That would be a period I'm interested in.

[SilverKnight]

Spain.. Estonians are mostly Baltids, while Spaniards are Atlantos/ Atlanto - Med. Closer genetically too ...etc

[Grace O'Malley]

Spain.. Estonians are mostly Baltids, while Spaniards are Atlantos/ Atlanto - Med. Closer genetically too ...etc

Estonians are quite distant from everyone even Swedes who are quite close geographically. It most be the Finnic component in them.

Distance to: Estonian
0.01911948 Russian_Pskov
0.02259089 Lithuanian_VA
0.02275083 Lithuanian_VZ
0.02313506 Latvian
0.02323468 Lithuanian_PA
0.02398044 Lithuanian_RA
0.02399727 Lithuanian_SZ
0.02438596 Lithuanian_PZ
0.02681806 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.02683077 Belarusian
0.02737735 Russian_Kaluga
0.02808852 Russian_Tver
0.03046202 Russian_Kursk
0.03136460 Russian_Smolensk
0.03328418 Russian_Voronez
0.03379802 Ingrian
0.03421019 Russian_Ryazan
0.03441644 Russian_Orel
0.03481333 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.03481792 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.03508472 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.03668736 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.03704679 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.03846606 Polish_Kashubian
0.03851010 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.03920782 Russian_Belgorod
0.03926378 Russian_Kostroma
0.03950648 Polish
0.04028529 Finnish_Central
0.04079565 Finnish_Southwest
0.04230990 Finnish_Southeast
0.04306022 Cossack_Kuban
0.04468520 Karelian
0.04531566 Moksha
0.04690879 Russian_Krasnoborsky
0.04722740 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.04747359 Erzya
0.04893469 Vepsian
0.04959428 Finnish_North
0.04992664 Finnish_East
0.05250708 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.05389542 Slovakian
0.05471890 Moldovan_o
0.05839712 Czech
0.05938804 Russian_Pinega
0.05992763 Swedish
0.06004743 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.06263578 Russian_Pinezhsky
0.06453607 German_East
0.06671162 German_Hamburg
0.07132481 Hungarian
0.07416283 Slovenian
0.07456686 Danish
0.07486854 Norwegian
0.07592259 Icelandic
0.07620492 Croatian
0.07811376 German_Erlangen
0.08048935 German
0.08131954 Austrian
0.08327256 Dutch
0.08343572 Shetlandic
0.08436918 Orcadian
0.08449797 Russian_Leshukonsky
0.08586295 Scottish
0.08689456 Bosnian
0.08833018 English
0.08833364 Irish
0.08845543 Afrikaner
0.08870672 Welsh
0.09083653 English_Cornwall
0.09218249 Moldovan
0.09402859 French_Brittany
0.09445673 BelgianA
0.09625757 French_Seine-Maritime
0.09945533 Serbian
0.10016666 Tatar_Mishar
0.10092251 BelgianB
0.10094450 French_Alsace
0.10110969 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.10121684 Montenegrin
0.10140441 French_Nord
0.10446297 Komi
0.10526505 BelgianC
0.10660806 Swiss_German
0.10836857 French_Paris
0.10980490 Romanian
0.11502144 Macedonian
0.11586627 Saami_Kola
0.11637686 French_Occitanie
0.11837435 Bulgarian
0.11873957 French_Auvergne
0.12152346 Swiss_French
0.12265462 Italian_Northeast
0.12504176 Turkish_Deliorman
0.12589864 French_Provence
0.12626467 Gagauz
0.12768588 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
0.12771916 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.12945313 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
0.13001351 Spanish_Barcelones

Irish however are closer to Austrians than Spanish which was a surprise when I first started using G25.


Distance to: Irish
0.00733157 Scottish
0.00968303 Orcadian
0.01206355 English
0.01256714 Welsh
0.01418769 English_Cornwall
0.01420498 Shetlandic
0.01572625 Dutch
0.01622884 Icelandic
0.01629774 Norwegian
0.01669446 Danish
0.01733394 French_Brittany
0.02745489 BelgianA
0.02834397 German
0.02884688 Afrikaner
0.03005819 Swedish
0.03031386 German_Hamburg
0.03343895 BelgianB
0.03516608 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03555467 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03557018 German_Erlangen
0.03642944 French_Nord
0.03832801 BelgianC
0.03924328 French_Paris
0.04038386 French_Alsace
0.04221782 German_East
0.04304384 Swiss_German
0.04312622 Austrian
0.04795519 Czech
0.05116941 French_Occitanie
0.05154234 Hungarian
0.05580406 French_Auvergne
0.05818600 Swiss_French
0.05842252 Slovenian
0.05865498 Croatian
0.06113442 Slovakian
0.06354105 French_Provence
0.06443014 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.06501353 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.06554533 Basque_Araba
0.06658504 Polish
0.06787571 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.06804656 Spanish_Penedes
0.06850309 Bosnian
0.06896800 Spanish_Barcelones
0.06899197 Polish_Kashubian
0.06964351 Spanish_Biscay
0.07016742 Spanish_Girona
0.07016983 French_Chalosse
0.07034584 Moldovan
0.07065757 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.07105642 Spanish_Aragon_North
0.07107387 Montenegrin
0.07130305 French_South
0.07132715 Moldovan_o
0.07146714 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.07151474 Spanish_Lleida
0.07172595 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.07178426 Italian_Northeast
0.07226668 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
0.07247918 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.07248195 Serbian
0.07264948 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.07285249 Spanish_Mallorca
0.07286545 French_Bearn
0.07298030 Spanish_Cataluna
0.07322692 Basque_Biscay
0.07333055 Basque_Roncal
0.07374918 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
0.07384057 French_Bigorre
0.07422656 Finnish_Southwest
0.07432312 Basque_French
0.07456774 Spanish_Burgos
0.07464660 Spanish_Soria
0.07495592 Basque_Gipuzkoa
0.07523688 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.07550554 Romanian
0.07557648 Spanish_Pirineu
0.07564906 Spanish_Castello
0.07571669 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.07582018 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.07606419 Basque_Navarre_Center
0.07619860 Basque_Baztan
0.07621349 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.07632090 Spanish_Cantabria
0.07643520 Spanish_Aragon
0.07644426 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.07645875 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.07665759 Spanish_Valencia
0.07691357 Spanish_Navarra
0.07713011 Spanish_Baleares
0.07742587 Spanish_Alacant
0.07754335 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.07792216 Spanish_Eivissa
0.07796783 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.07813336 Spanish_Galicia
0.07836096 Basque_Spanish
0.07841453 Basque_Navarre_North
0.07873089 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.07888078 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.07929328 Russian_Belgorod

These young lads are from Galway. I just don't think they fit particularly well in Spain. If anyone has any opinions or disagreement feel free to post.

https://www.maighcuilinn.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/galway-mayo-minor-win-018.jpg

https://i2-prod.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/article24545425.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_inpho_02058003.jpg

You really do not get a lot of Irish that can pass even as French. Even CV and El Nort said I didn't pass in Spain and I've got a common Irish look.

https://media.galwaydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/22161804/20180903-Galway-minor-football.jpg

Another team from Galway

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU689qwWUAAmaIo?format=jpg&name=large

[Vanily]

Irish however are closer to Austrians than Spanish which was a surprise when I first started using G25.



And closer to Balkanites and Romanians but it's not really surprising once one understands ancient population migrations in Europe.

[SilverKnight]

Estonians are quite distant from everyone even Swedes who are quite close geographically. It most be the Finnic component in them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU689qwWUAAmaIo?format=jpg&name=large

A couple of them might overlap with Spaniards, especially with Gallicians.

[Vanily]

A couple of them might overlap with Spaniards, especially with Gallicians.

A couple of them might. Of probably foreign ancestry. Out of 23.
Yet another undeniable proof of the Irish-Spanish Celto-Atlantic connection. Estonians are like aliens by comparison.
Such a clairvoyant input from Latin American forum members is always appreciated.

[vader]

Estonian

[Gallop]

https://www.fiscal.es/o/adaptive-media/image/1165817/imagen3_750x0/_M5A3614.jpg?t=1654516473999
Estonian prosecutors group

[Beowulf]

I know where it comes from. The Milesian myth is one reason.

https://i.imgur.com/l42cLjT.png

https://www.libraryireland.com/Atlas/I-Milesians.php

This from Oppenheimer



https://www.csueastbay.edu/museum/files/docs/exhibit/dna/dna-myths-british.pdf

With newer studies how wrong was he? :)

And of course the Celts which many people in the past believed the Irish were mostly descended from so people thought that populations in Western Europe were all linked by the Celts. Irish people do not have much Celtic dna at all as they are heavily influenced by the people that arrived in the Bronze Age.

Anyway you can see how this has happened.

The Bronze Age people in Ireland almost totally replaced any preceding population including Farmers like Ballynahatty. Irish most likely get there Farmer component from GAC which the Bell Beakers had already mixed with in Poland and Germany. I'm hoping more studies will come out this year looking at Medieval Ireland. That would be a period I'm interested in.

i heard about that history in when i went in Galicia the legend says that the Gallaecian King Breogan on his tower he saw ireland from the tower and with his son Ith went to Ireland and had contact with Tuatha Dé Danann the people who lived there, it was a peacefull contact but some of these Tuatha Dé Danann betray Ith and he returns dead to Gallaecia and i don't remember well what happened later i think Breogan tried to invade the island and make settlement, i really like this Legendary history.

in the galician version the milesians were from iberia but i think they were a very strange people and i don't think we will never know more about them :(




represntation of the tower of breogan:

https://i.postimg.cc/9z4cVj5F/Ite-IA-Midjourney-versi-n-1.png (https://postimg.cc/9z4cVj5F)

[Ruggery]

A couple of them might overlap with Spaniards, especially with Gallicians.

Which for example?
By the way, Galicians are not phenotypically different from other Spaniards.

[Ruggery]

You cannot use isolated cases of Atlanto-Meds to rule an entire population of Northern Euros. Even as Coon says in Races of Europe In Ireland, “the Atlanto-Mediterranean element, if it were brown eyed and black haired, has completely lost its original pigment qualities through mixture.”

The fact that they are minority elements does not invalidate their existence, for example Keltic Nordid is a minority in Spain but it exists, it cannot be said that KN does not exist there because cases have been seen.

[SilverKnight]

Which for example?
By the way, Galicians are not phenotypically different from other Spaniards.

https://i.ibb.co/J36BKxr/111.png (https://ibb.co/6X9nmvD)
https://i.ibb.co/hmkhy0R/gfggdfg.png (https://ibb.co/9rJzNP9)
https://i.ibb.co/q7mQ34G/ngfhgfhgfh.png (https://ibb.co/HBG8fMv)

[Ruggery]

I haven't met many Argentinians here in Australia but a few years ago I met a group of Argentinians. They were mostly family members and here on a holiday. We bonded over rugby. :)

Well I was referring more to the opinion of the Irish who live in Ireland.
But there I suppose that they have also lived with some.

[Ruggery]

https://i.ibb.co/J36BKxr/111.png (https://ibb.co/6X9nmvD)
https://i.ibb.co/hmkhy0R/gfggdfg.png (https://ibb.co/9rJzNP9)
https://i.ibb.co/q7mQ34G/ngfhgfhgfh.png (https://ibb.co/HBG8fMv)

You're right.

[Cristiano viejo]

It has nothing to do with the thread but I have seen that many Irish people also like Argentina.
Probably because Argentina is anti-British too.


You're right.
Except the gingers the rest pass with no many problems.

[Septentrion]

In my opinion the Irish are the same as the British or English, the divide is superficial I think both are celto-germanic, the irish have some scandinavian and such too, maybe the english very slightly more but both are a mix of germanic and celtic, and they are to me the same. To me the British Isles is the same.

Yes, these are similar people. However, they are surprisingly different and not identical. The difference is not superficial as you suppose. First remember even Roman armies which destroyed much of Celtic civilization in continental Europe never reached Ireland. Celtic genes remain the strongest there. Roman occupied a large part of Britain though. Two-thirds of the Irish belong to the Celtic gene group ( R1b-L21), on the other hand in Britain, it’s one-third. As expected, Ireland has the highest frequency for red hair, followed by Scotland and Wales. England as a whole is the least ginger of the Isles and is the most Germanic.

[Ruggery]

Yes, these are similar people. However, they are surprisingly different and not identical. The difference is not superficial as you suppose. First remember even Roman armies which destroyed much of Celtic civilization in continental Europe never reached Ireland. Celtic genes remain the strongest there. Roman occupied a large part of Britain though. Two-thirds of the Irish belong to the Celtic gene group ( R1b-L21), on the other hand in Britain, it’s one-third. As expected, Ireland has the highest frequency for red hair, followed by Scotland and Wales. England as a whole is the least ginger of the Isles and is the most Germanic.

The Romans were not the only ones who invaded the United Kingdom, the UK had about 4 large subsequent invasions of the Germanics, they did, they killed many people from the local population, then the Vikings and Normans returned to invade and kill people although the invasions of these did not affect so much.

[Xacal]

Spain of couse

[Grace O'Malley]

All of these populations are quite easy to tell apart. So my answer stands from my previous post neither. While it is true that some individuals can pass they are a minority.

Videos are good because the people are random.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXhDlYREJyo&t=68s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbAW8G-57A&t=20s

Some Russians in this as well as native Estonians.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3e4GiSyr9c

[Russki]

Some Russians in this as well as native Estonians.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3e4GiSyr9c


The Ukrainian woman at 1:20 can pass in Kazakhstan.

[Grace O'Malley]

The Ukrainian woman at 1:20 can pass in Kazakhstan.

This is actually a better video for Estonians. There doesn't appear to be any foreigners in this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dRZt9_VsjQ

[Grace O'Malley]

Yes, these are similar people. However, they are surprisingly different and not identical. The difference is not superficial as you suppose. First remember even Roman armies which destroyed much of Celtic civilization in continental Europe never reached Ireland. Celtic genes remain the strongest there. Roman occupied a large part of Britain though. Two-thirds of the Irish belong to the Celtic gene group ( R1b-L21), on the other hand in Britain, it’s one-third. As expected, Ireland has the highest frequency for red hair, followed by Scotland and Wales. England as a whole is the least ginger of the Isles and is the most Germanic.

You're speaking specifically of Isles populations and not really Celts. It's fairly obvious that Insular Celts and Continental Celts are not the same people. It's still a mystery about Celtic languages. While Bell Beakers spoke an Indo-European language it was too early for Celtic. There might be some Continental Celts that entered Ireland. Did they get to Ireland from Britain? That is possible as well which is why France_IA is diluted in Ireland in comparison to Southern England for example. It's all a puzzle at the moment regarding the language. R1b-L21 is Bell Beaker and older than the Celts. It is not "the Celtic gene group". There has been some shift in Ireland since the Bronze Age as Irish today are not exactly the same but I wouldn't be surprised if that is due to movement from the Continent into Britain and then after a time some of these from Britain, albeit diluted, then into Ireland. Normans came to Ireland that way i.e. via Britain. Vikings more direct but also back and forth from the Western Isles of Scotland and around the Irish Sea. Irish though got the majority of their genetics from people like Rathlin who were from Food Vessel culture.

[Septentrion]

The Romans were not the only ones who invaded the United Kingdom, the UK had about 4 large subsequent invasions of the Germanics, they did, they killed many people from the local population, then the Vikings and Normans returned to invade and kill people although the invasions of these did not affect so much.

Nevertheless Romans had a higher ratio of genes for darker hair/eyes/skin than Germanics. Romans didn’t invade all the United Kingdom either ( Scotland and Northern Ireland were free). These areas subsequently have a higher ratio for blue eyes/ red hair / pale & freckly skin than the rest of the UK.

[ecptr]

Maybe this has something to do with it rather than Romans.
https://offgridinstaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Europe_PVOUT_mid-size-map_156x126mm-300dpi_v20180611.preview.jpg

I paid attention to Western Scotland being the least sunny but also the most brunet.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/PSM_V52_D174_Relative_brunetness_of_the_british_is les.png/500px-PSM_V52_D174_Relative_brunetness_of_the_british_is les.png

[Grace O'Malley]

There is an Estonian married to an Irishman in this video below.

https://i.imgur.com/8XzrsAE.png

This video is from Galway City on the far west coast in Connacht.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ownuljxqCHM&t=97s

[PaganPoet]

Then you step one foot into the north, east and islands and you're in the least brunette areas of the British Isles.
This shows old anthropology studies aren't very reliable.

This seems too small scale to compare to global distribution of pigmentation and sunlight.

[Grace O'Malley]

Then you step one foot into the north, east and islands and you're in the least brunette areas of the British Isles.
This shows old anthropology studies aren't very reliable.

Yes I agree. There is no great differences in hair colour across the whole of Ireland for example. Look at Munster on that map?? Why would there be such a divide in hair colour? Also the vast majority of the people I post are from the Munster and Connacht regions.

[PaganPoet]

The comparison is within the British Isles.

Yes, there would be too much recent migration within the British isles to make such relation, I would think. Because I don't think it evolves fast enough.

[Septentrion]

I paid attention to Western Scotland being the least sunny but also the most brunet.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/PSM_V52_D174_Relative_brunetness_of_the_british_is les.png/500px-PSM_V52_D174_Relative_brunetness_of_the_british_is les.png

I wouldn’t put all my trust in this map of Britain. I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However the map still shows a reflection of settlements. Germanic settlements were stronger eastwards, thus also reflecting their blond or lighter hair tendencies, while Celtic settlements westwards reflecting their darker or brown hair tendencies as well a stronger ginger frequency.
https://i-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w820/s/i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/24/article-2401346-1B7041FC000005DC-552_634x757.jpg

[Creoda]

I paid attention to Western Scotland being the least sunny but also the most brunet.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/PSM_V52_D174_Relative_brunetness_of_the_british_is les.png/500px-PSM_V52_D174_Relative_brunetness_of_the_british_is les.png
The sun has nothing to do with brunet-ness, it's mostly down to Western Scotland being more Gaelic and less Caledonian & Germanic.


Then you step one foot into the north, east and islands and you're in the least brunette areas of the British Isles.
This shows old anthropology studies aren't very reliable.
It only goes to show that pigmentation in Britain doesn't necessarily always follow some expected pattern or smooth gradient. The same is true for eye colour, for example why the Welsh are darker eyed than the English in every study is a bit mysterious, taking into account other Insular Celts are lighter eyed.

Also the Highland Clearances had taken place by the late 19th century, with the North Highlands being repopulated with Lowland Scots I believe, hence the disparity there.

[Grace O'Malley]

The sun has nothing to do with brunet-ness, it's mostly down to Western Scotland being more Gaelic and less Caledonian & Germanic.


It only goes to show that pigmentation in Britain doesn't necessarily always follow some expected pattern or smooth gradient. The same is true for eye colour, for example why the Welsh are darker eyed than the English in every study is a bit mysterious, taking into account other Insular Celts are lighter eyed.

Also the Highland Clearances had taken place by the late 19th century, with the North Highlands being repopulated with Lowland Scots I believe, hence the disparity there.

Then what happened in Ulster where most of the planters were lowland Scots?

[Creoda]

Then what happened in Ulster where most of the planters were lowland Scots?
You mean why is Ulster still heavily Brunet? Probably because the Lowland Scots planters were largely from SW Scotland, which is fairly Gaelic and brunet, plus the native Irish still remain in large numbers. As you can see on the map, Ulster is intermediate between Southwest Scotland and Donegal.

[Grace O'Malley]

You mean why is Ulster still heavily Brunet? Probably because the Lowland Scots planters were largely from SW Scotland, which is fairly Gaelic and brunet, plus the native Irish still remain in large numbers. As you can see on the map, Ulster is intermediate between Southwest Scotland and Donegal.

Do you then have an explanation for the Munster area? The lightest areas are where my mother is from and I never noticed these differences in Ireland.

[Grace O'Malley]

Here's a map of fair hair in Europe from Eupedia. I don't know where he got his info for this one.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9134534c4180305dd2456b5406fd8b19

[Creoda]

Do you then have an explanation for the Munster area? The lightest areas are where my mother is from and I never noticed these differences in Ireland.
I already put this caveat


It only goes to show that pigmentation in Britain doesn't necessarily always follow some expected pattern or smooth gradient. The same is true for eye colour, for example why the Welsh are darker eyed than the English in every study is a bit mysterious, taking into account other Insular Celts are lighter eyed.I can't explain every anomaly. Maybe look at the data tables for Ireland in Beddoe's book for the sample sizes. I guess it has something to do with the genetic divide between North Munster and South Munster that has been shown in recent Irish dna studies.

[Creoda]

Here's a map of fair hair in Europe from Eupedia. I don't know where he got his info for this one.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9134534c4180305dd2456b5406fd8b19
I do, their imagination.

[PaganPoet]

I do, their imagination.

Considering that type of brown, they probably pulled it out of their ass.

[Grace O'Malley]

I do, their imagination.

I've checked and it's from Coon.

[Creoda]

I've checked and it's from Coon.
This map?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/3a/aa/813aaaccc5900c237a8ff4f2fb8f48c6.jpg
It's hair + eyes (two things I think should be counted separately), which they seem to have mislabelled as hair colour.

[Grace O'Malley]

This map?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/3a/aa/813aaaccc5900c237a8ff4f2fb8f48c6.jpg
It's hair + eyes (two things I think should be counted separately), which they seem to have mislabelled as hair colour.

Yes that's what it looks like to me and comparing the maps.

[Septentrion]

Any evidence that Celts were pred. dark haired? Or that there was any substantial difference between ancient Celts, Germanics or any other Indo-European people?
You also forget Norman settlement.

Celts predominantly dark-haired? Nope. The Celts showed a greater variety in hair color. They were not like Mediterraneans who are predominantly dark-haired, dark-eyed, olive-skinned. Nevertheless, they were less frequently blonde than Germanics, but at the same time, had higher ratios of gingers. In fact, testimonies of the Celts by the civilized Mediterranean people for the most part attested to their very light pigmentation. We still see good living examples in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and among Canadians, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders of Celtic descent.

[ecptr]

This map?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/3a/aa/813aaaccc5900c237a8ff4f2fb8f48c6.jpg
It's hair + eyes (two things I think should be counted separately), which they seem to have mislabelled as hair colour.

Modern studies show Ireland is considerably more brunet than every part of Britain, even Wales.

https://i.imgur.com/zGAcVfQ.png

[alnortedelsur]

Celts predominantly dark-haired? Nope. The Celts showed a greater variety in hair color. They were not like Mediterraneans who are predominantly dark-haired, dark-eyed, olive-skinned. Nevertheless, they were less frequently blonde than Germanics, but at the same time, had higher ratios of gingers. In fact, testimonies of the Celts by the civilized Mediterranean people for the most part attested to their very light pigmentation. We still see good living examples in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and among Canadians, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders of Celtic descent.

Most Spaniards aren't olive-skinned moron. Most of them have a very standard European fair skin tone, and they aren't uniformly very dark haired and eyed as you imply. They have their decent share of blondish hair tones, green, blue, and hazel eyes, just like any other European population.

[Grace O'Malley]

Modern studies show Ireland is considerably more brunet than every part of Britain, even Wales.

https://i.imgur.com/zGAcVfQ.png

What modern study is that? It is done by people looking at pictures and I think that is done by a poster on here. Ireland is more brunet than Britain and the majority hair colour is light and mid brown. These are the most numerous shades. There are no modern day studies on things like hair colour.

The composite colouring would be someone with brown hair, fair skin and blue eyes.

Example below from one of the more darker areas i.e. Co Kerry.

https://e1.365dm.com/19/08/2048x1152/skysports-kerry-peter-keane_4760159.jpg

This is an older team from Kerry so fairly consistent.

https://gaelicart.ie/app/uploads/2021/01/Kerry-2000-GA-667.jpg

Here some girl's teams from the same county.

https://mygaa.club/assets/img/clubs/kerrycamogie.jpg

https://m.psecn.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iMPKONMgznw/s/750/09-Kerry-Ladies-Camogie6484.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

Modern studies show Ireland is considerably more brunet than every part of Britain, even Wales.

https://i.imgur.com/zGAcVfQ.png
lmao modern studies, that comes from a Xenophobic Prussian thread :pound:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303744-XP-s-Europe-wide-pigmentation-study


Celts predominantly dark-haired? Nope. The Celts showed a greater variety in hair color. They were not like Mediterraneans who are predominantly dark-haired, dark-eyed, olive-skinned. Nevertheless, they were less frequently blonde than Germanics, but at the same time, had higher ratios of gingers. In fact, testimonies of the Celts by the civilized Mediterranean people for the most part attested to their very light pigmentation. We still see good living examples in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and among Canadians, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders of Celtic descent.
Strabo claimed Celts dyed their hair with lime to look light, what indicates Celts were mostly dark haired :thumb001:

[Cristiano viejo]

The composite colouring would be someone with brown hair, fair skin and blue eyes.
]

A famous Spanish traveller from the century xvi who visited all Northern Europe (Scandinavia, England, Ireland) plus Asia Minor etc, said in his memories Irish were the palest people in world.

Just saying.

[Grace O'Malley]

A famous Spanish traveller from the century xvi who visited all Northern Europe (Scandinavia, England, Ireland) plus Asia Minor etc, said in his memories Irish were the palest people in world.

Just saying.

I think most people know that they are very pale. It is adaption to the cloudy overcast climate. Ireland is a sun deprived country.

[Daco Celtic]

Example below from one of the more darker areas i.e. Co Kerry.



What do you consider the darkest area/county in Ireland?

[Ruggery]

I think most people know that they are very pale. It is adaption to the cloudy overcast climate. Ireland is a sun deprived country.

By that same logic people in 2 or 3 centuries in Australia will be as brown as southern Europeans.

[Grace O'Malley]

What do you consider the darkest area/county in Ireland?

I just going on the Beddoe map posted previously. Connacht and southern Ireland were the darkest. It is not something that I personally think.

[Daco Celtic]

Connacht and southern Ireland were the darkest.

https://i.imgur.com/buJ6UT6.gif

[Grace O'Malley]

By that same logic people in 2 or 3 centuries in Australia will be as brown as southern Europeans.

It would most probably take many generations and genetic mutations. Most Australians also are very careful these days and wear sunscreen and avoid being out too long in the sun. There was a discussion on the radio yesterday about people not getting enough Vitamin D because of avoiding the sun.

Australia and New Zealand have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world and people are much more careful about sun exposure. There isn't really going to be the evolutionary pressure for people's skin to darken if they don't get much sun exposure. What might happen is with more people that aren't Europeans coming to live in Australia over time people will have darker skin because they won't be all from Northwestern Europe like they were in the past.

Irish skin colour would have been under evolutionary pressure over generations. It is like how they have the highest rate of lactose tolerance and also the highest rate of Haemochromatosis in the world. There was some advantage to this especially lactose tolerance. There must have been some advantage in the past to absorbing more iron but now it is a disadvantage.

[Oliver109]

It would most probably take many generations and genetic mutations. Most Australians also are very careful these days and wear sunscreen and avoid being out too long in the sun. There was a discussion on the radio yesterday about people not getting enough Vitamin D because of avoiding the sun.

Australia and New Zealand have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world and people are much more careful about sun exposure. There isn't really going to be the evolutionary pressure for people's skin to darken if they don't get much sun exposure. What might happen is with more people that aren't Europeans coming to live in Australia over time people will have darker skin because they won't be all from Northwestern Europe like they were in the past.

Irish skin colour would have been under evolutionary pressure over generations. It is like how they have the highest rate of lactose tolerance and also the highest rate of Haemochromatosis in the world. There was some advantage to this especially lactose tolerance. There must have been some advantage in the past to absorbing more iron but now it is a disadvantage.

Are there any Caucasoid groups that have gone from being pale to being darker? Even in Lebanon and Syria there are lighter skinned minorities, in N Africa too that somehow withstood the stronger sun, as far as i am aware no lighter skinned people entered the tropics and survived there for long but then much of Australia is more comparable to N Africa in latitude.

[SouthDutch7991]

I voted Estonia, but I think Western Europeans in general look more like Iberians than Eastern Europeans. The Baltics are an exception and you see a lot of HG phenotypes in both the Baltics and Ireland. But I see a lot of Spanish-like people in the British Isles overall, England even more so, than Slavic or Finnic-like people.

People really, really over-nordify the British Isles and Germany/France when talking about them.

[Ruggery]

I voted Estonia, but I think Western Europeans in general look more like Iberians than Eastern Europeans. The Baltics are an exception and you see a lot of HG phenotypes in both the Baltics and Ireland. But I see a lot of Spanish-like people in the British Isles overall, England even more so, than Slavic or Finnic-like people.

People really, really over-nordify the British Isles and Germany/France when talking about them.

That is easy, because despite the fact that the Spanish and Irish have different tones and characteristics, both have aspects of Western Europe, you can find people in Ireland who pass in Spain even if they are not the majority and vice versa, in Eastern Europe a large part has an almost totally different look.

[Septentrion]

Most Spaniards aren't olive-skinned moron. Most of them have a very standard European fair skin tone, and they aren't uniformly very dark haired and eyed as you imply. They have their decent share of blondish hair tones, green, blue, and hazel eyes, just like any other European population.

Hey Spaniard! Chill a little! I have never said that Spaniards were not Europeans in the first place. I can’t recall that in the statement. I don’t know who was your English teacher, but you’re lacking. What I said is that Celts were not a Mediterranean people. As the Mediterranean world which was the most civilized at the time attests in most depictions of Celts as that a very light pigmentation. We can’t speak of Spain yet in those days, as there was no such thing yet. In Spain, with the Iberic population majority, there were Carthaginians, Romans, Celtic, Germanic, Moorish, etc… who settled that part of Europe. Spain is predominantly Mediterranean in race, but there are Atlantids, Alpines, Dinarics, Nordics which are present too. I am surely not denying that fact. For example the overall mean for light eyes is about 25% ( slightly higher than in Portugal and Greece), the most common skin phototype is type 3 ( standard European). I know many of the Spaniards on this thread have a complex of inferiority. The fact of the matter is that Spain is predominantly Med as are other Southern European countries. Nothing to cry about.
When I was speaking about the Mediterranean world, I was not immediately relating to Spain. You however immediately thought it was Spain.

[Septentrion]

I voted Estonia, but I think Western Europeans in general look more like Iberians than Eastern Europeans. The Baltics are an exception and you see a lot of HG phenotypes in both the Baltics and Ireland. But I see a lot of Spanish-like people in the British Isles overall, England even more so, than Slavic or Finnic-like people.

People really, really over-nordify the British Isles and Germany/France when talking about them.

Over-Nordify? Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! It is not Western Europeans who look more like Iberians. Rather, there is an amount of Celtic and Germanic blood in the Iberian population. Remember the Celts and Germans etc… these people settled amongst a Mediterranean majority. At one point, you had those who were called Celtiberians, right? You already know in Western and North-Western Europe, populations are largely Germanic or Celtic or a combination of both. This is not case with Baltic, Finnic, Slavic and Uralic people of Eastern Europe and Eurasia ( for Uralic folks), they didn’t settle there and have no history there. This is why there is more of a chance of an Iberian looking like a Nordic/Alpine than looking East Baltid/Neo Danubian. There is no over-nordification as you imply. It is rather you who misunderstand the word Nordic. Most Balts, Finns, Slavs, Uralics are not Nordic despite being blond rather belong to East Europid racial phenotypes.

[Septentrion]

I vote Estonia in terms of overall look which includes facial features + body build + pigmentation. The Irish resemble more their Northern European counterparts. Although in individual cases as with any population, there is a variety.

[Septentrion]

Are there any Caucasoid groups that have gone from being pale to being darker? Even in Lebanon and Syria there are lighter skinned minorities, in N Africa too that somehow withstood the stronger sun, as far as i am aware no lighter skinned people entered the tropics and survived there for long but then much of Australia is more comparable to N Africa in latitude.

Northern Africans are not that light as a whole. Additionally, their ability for their skin to tan is much higher than with Europeans. As many even have a skin type 5, which absent in Northern, Western, Central and Eastern Europe. In Southern Europe only a small minority of individuals might have that skin type. Despite having that skin type (5), most North Africans, Middle-Easterners cover their skin with clothing. While the Australian Aborigenes didn’t need to do it at all. Their skin offered the best natural protection against the sun.

[Septentrion]

I just going on the Beddoe map posted previously. Connacht and southern Ireland were the darkest. It is not something that I personally think.

Beddoe was a biased and anti-Catholic. He mocks the Irish phenotype ( Brunn) a few times.

[Tooting Carmen]

Northern Africans are not that light as a whole. Additionally, their ability for their skin to tan is much higher than with Europeans. As many even have a skin type 5, which absent in Northern, Western, Central and Eastern Europe. In Southern Europe only a small minority of individuals might have that skin type. Despite having that skin type (5), most North Africans, Middle-Easterners cover their skin with clothing. While the Australian Aborigenes didn’t need to do it at all. Their skin offered the best natural protection against the sun.

Type 5 doesn't exist among Europeans, and quite frankly even the majority of Iranians are not that dark.

[Grace O'Malley]

That is easy, because despite the fact that the Spanish and Irish have different tones and characteristics, both have aspects of Western Europe, you can find people in Ireland who pass in Spain even if they are not the majority and vice versa, in Eastern Europe a large part has an almost totally different look.

I also think people exaggerate some "Western European" aspect. Irish are closer to some Eastern Europeans before any Spanish or Southern French for example. They are closer to Polish for example than Barcelona and closer to Belarusians than Murcia.

[Tooting Carmen]

closer to Belarusians than Murcia.

Really?

[Grace O'Malley]

Beddoe was a biased and anti-Catholic. He mocks the Irish phenotype ( Brunn) a few times.

I picked that up when looking him up. He felt Celts were closer to Africans so I'm dubious about his figures.

[Grace O'Malley]

Really?

Yes really.

Distance to: Irish
0.00733157 Scottish
0.00968303 Orcadian
0.01206355 English
0.01256714 Welsh
0.01418769 English_Cornwall
0.01420498 Shetlandic
0.01572625 Dutch
0.01622884 Icelandic
0.01629774 Norwegian
0.01669446 Danish
0.01733394 French_Brittany
0.02745489 BelgianA
0.02834397 German
0.02884688 Afrikaner
0.03005819 Swedish
0.03031386 German_Hamburg
0.03343895 BelgianB
0.03516608 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03555467 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03557018 German_Erlangen
0.03642944 French_Nord
0.03832801 BelgianC
0.03924328 French_Paris
0.04038386 French_Alsace
0.04221782 German_East
0.04304384 Swiss_German
0.04312622 Austrian
0.04795519 Czech
0.05116941 French_Occitanie
0.05154234 Hungarian
0.05580406 French_Auvergne
0.05818600 Swiss_French
0.05842252 Slovenian
0.05865498 Croatian
0.06113442 Slovakian
0.06354105 French_Provence
0.06443014 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.06501353 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.06554533 Basque_Araba
0.06658504 Polish
0.06787571 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.06804656 Spanish_Penedes
0.06850309 Bosnian
0.06896800 Spanish_Barcelones
0.06899197 Polish_Kashubian
0.06964351 Spanish_Biscay
0.07016742 Spanish_Girona
0.07016983 French_Chalosse
0.07034584 Moldovan
0.07065757 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.07105642 Spanish_Aragon_North
0.07107387 Montenegrin
0.07130305 French_South
0.07132715 Moldovan_o
0.07146714 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.07151474 Spanish_Lleida
0.07172595 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.07178426 Italian_Northeast
0.07226668 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
0.07247918 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.07248195 Serbian
0.07264948 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.07285249 Spanish_Mallorca
0.07286545 French_Bearn
0.07298030 Spanish_Cataluna
0.07322692 Basque_Biscay
0.07333055 Basque_Roncal
0.07374918 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
0.07384057 French_Bigorre
0.07422656 Finnish_Southwest
0.07432312 Basque_French
0.07456774 Spanish_Burgos
0.07464660 Spanish_Soria
0.07495592 Basque_Gipuzkoa
0.07523688 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.07550554 Romanian
0.07557648 Spanish_Pirineu
0.07564906 Spanish_Castello
0.07571669 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.07582018 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.07606419 Basque_Navarre_Center
0.07619860 Basque_Baztan
0.07621349 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.07632090 Spanish_Cantabria
0.07643520 Spanish_Aragon
0.07644426 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.07645875 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.07665759 Spanish_Valencia
0.07691357 Spanish_Navarra
0.07713011 Spanish_Baleares
0.07742587 Spanish_Alacant
0.07754335 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.07792216 Spanish_Eivissa
0.07796783 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.07813336 Spanish_Galicia
0.07836096 Basque_Spanish
0.07841453 Basque_Navarre_North
0.07873089 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.07888078 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.07929328 Russian_Belgorod
0.07931107 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.07946344 Russian_Voronez
0.07952355 Russian_Orel
0.07988601 Russian_Kursk
0.07998740 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.08000914 Spanish_Asturias
0.08034998 Basque_Soule
0.08066065 Italian_Veneto
0.08099440 Russian_Ryazan
0.08112707 Russian_Smolensk
0.08184571 Finnish_Southeast
0.08267719 Portuguese
0.08278013 Spanish_Menorca
0.08325766 Russian_Kaluga
0.08336598 Spanish_Andalucia
0.08337345 Finnish_Central
0.08359588 Belarusian
0.08408615 Spanish_Extremadura
0.08429144 Bulgarian
0.08442156 Macedonian
0.08457686 Russian_Tver
0.08468032 Spanish_Murcia
0.08487428 Cossack_Kuban
0.08554655 Ingrian
0.08687766 Italian_Bergamo
0.08692249 Lithuanian_PA
0.08769642 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.08805869 Russian_Pskov
0.08831996 Moksha
0.08833364 Estonian
0.08836508 Italian_Piedmont
0.08962397 Italian_Liguria
0.08970231 Swiss_Italian
0.09036402 Russian_Kostroma
0.09092141 Gagauz
0.09100106 Lithuanian_VA
0.09221401 Italian_Lombardy
0.09422758 Erzya
0.09435970 Italian_Emilia
0.09455124 Finnish_North
0.09477878 Lithuanian_VZ
0.09703876 Turkish_Deliorman
0.09737825 Russian_Krasnoborsky
0.09751018 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
0.09877669 Lithuanian_RA
0.09933420 Finnish_East
0.09998332 Karelian
0.10002714 Lithuanian_PZ
0.10167933 Italian_Tuscany
0.10206487 Lithuanian_SZ

[Immanenz]

Are there any Caucasoid groups that have gone from being pale to being darker? Even in Lebanon and Syria there are lighter skinned minorities, in N Africa too that somehow withstood the stronger sun, as far as i am aware no lighter skinned people entered the tropics and survived there for long but then much of Australia is more comparable to N Africa in latitude.

Sure- Some African groups like Nilothics for example, Arabs although they did intermix with minor SSA and British people on cheap dating shows like Love islands^^

[Atlantic Reptilian]

No offence but I think British and German forum members will have a more accurate answer on that.
@Tooting Carmen @Oliver109 @rothaer
Who do you think passes better in the UK and Germany, Spaniards or Poles?

Poles, I would think

[Grace O'Malley]

I doubt it for the Southern French.

Yes Southern French are relatively distant. The Bretons however are close. The French are quite varied.

To further investigate the genetic history of people from Northwestern France, we first performed PCA on our entire WGS dataset merged with genotype data from diverse northern and western European populations (40,41). In agreement with the previously reported isolation-by-distance pattern in Europe (42), we found that French samples are continuously distributed along the axis connecting Southwestern (i.e., Spain) and Northwestern (i.e., Ireland/UK) Europe (Fig 3a). Individuals from Nouvelle-Aquitaine (NOU) appear closer to samples from Spain whereas individuals from Brittany appear at the other extreme and closer to samples from Ireland/UK. While individuals from Brittany fall onto the axis and overlap with the Irish, Welsh and Cornish samples, samples from Eastern Great Britain show a slight shift towards Central Europe. These results support the idea of increased genetic proximity between Brittany and Ireland, as previously suggested (43). In contrast with Brittany and similarly to what we observe for samples from Eastern Great Britain, individuals from Northern and Eastern France show a slight shift towards Central Europe (represented here mainly by Germany).

https://i.imgur.com/CXoxGdx.jpg

Present-day Irish exhibit a strong signal of continuity with the geographically close Early Bronze Age individuals, who carried high levels of steppe ancestry (~39 ± 8%) and among whom was found the earliest presence of the hemochromatosis mutation (54). In Ireland as in the rest of the British Isles, the introduction of steppe ancestry, which led to a considerable turnover of the contemporaneous genetic makeup, has been recently linked to the migration of individuals associated with the Bell Beaker complex from Northern/Central Europe (19,54). The lack of human ancient DNA from northern France - dating from the period between Copper Age and Early Iron Age - has hampered our understanding of such genetic turnover across the northern coast of France. Given (i) the elevated levels of steppe ancestry found among present-day French located along the English Channel coast and (ii) the high degree of allele sharing observed between present-day individuals from Brittany and Bell-Beakers-associated individuals carrying high levels of steppe ancestry (Fig. 4), we hypothesise that a similar degree of turnover has reached northern France and Brittany after the arrival of steppe ancestry.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.03.478491v1.full

[Grace O'Malley]

It is well known that Bretons are Cornish living in French soil but I was addressing your claim about Eastern Europeans being closer than any Southern French. That is only true for the Basque-shifted extreme south-west.

It's not a claim but observable using things like Gedmatch, G25 etc. Like the study above it has to do with the proportions of Steppe, Hunter Gather and Farmer ancestry in populations. It is why I question people using Western Europe as a reason for grouping people when populations don't group in that way. There is also drift in populations like you said in another thread. There is far more to genetics than just population distance as well. What populations share the most drift etc? Those sort of things are very interesting to me.

[gixajo]

It's not a claim but observable using things like Gedmatch, G25 etc. Like the study above it has to do with the proportions of Steppe, Hunter Gather and Farmer ancestry in populations. It is why I question people using Western Europe as a reason for grouping people when populations don't group in that way. There is also drift in populations like you said in another thread. There is far more to genetics than just population distance as well. What populations share the most drift etc? Those sort of things are very interesting to me.

During all this time, have you ever observed any kind of common trend among westerners in models and calculators with references to the bronze age?

Modelling with Bell Beaker samples as opposed to Corded Ware, even assuming a certain overlapping with samples from central or Northern Europe, seems to work to point the Western/Eastern trend of an individual. Similar things could be observable, on a smaller scale, when we use some common Bronze Age models. Have you never seen it?

In any case, as I already mentioned, the distances and how we model ourselves with G25 and the physical aspect do not have to be related. An Irishman with 7 Irish grandparents and one grandparent from Tangier might look Spanish and plot very close to you. Or a South American with 7% SSA and 10% Amerindian would have 83% common base with me and plot (for example) between Cyprus and Romania.

[gixajo]

And responding with something that has more to do with the topic of the thread, I would say that the Irish are clearly more similar to Estonians in terms of "coloring" but in terms of facial features, they tend to have something more in common with Spaniards.

It must be taken into account that the Estonians are shown as Baltic with a lot of Slavic mixture in the G25, and that it is the Lithuanians who, without ceasing to have that mixture, appear somewhat more different among the Baltic countries.

In any case, the hypothetical links between the Iberian Peninsula and the British Islands are reported in a multitude of studies that take YDNA or cultural aspects more into consideration than current autosomal data, and the latter seem to indicate what you maintain, that we have little in common.

[Septentrion]

Type 5 doesn't exist among Europeans, and quite frankly even the majority of Iranians are not that dark.

Type V? What?

Type V pigmentation is frequent among populations from the Middle East, parts of the Mediterranean and Southern Europe, Romani people, parts of Africa, Latin America, and the South Asian subcontinent.It ranges from olive to tan, Middle Eastern skin tones. This skin type very rarely burns and tans quite easily.

[Oliver109]

Sure- Some African groups like Nilothics for example, Arabs although they did intermix with minor SSA and British people on cheap dating shows like Love islands^^

Lol but Nilotics would have been very dark brown originally, probably similar in colour to Nigerians and Papuans so that typical African or "black people" brown skintone

[alnortedelsur]

Hey Spaniard! Chill a little! I have never said that Spaniards were not Europeans in the first place. I can’t recall that in the statement. I don’t know who was your English teacher, but you’re lacking. What I said is that Celts were not a Mediterranean people. As the Mediterranean world which was the most civilized at the time attests in most depictions of Celts as that a very light pigmentation. We can’t speak of Spain yet in those days, as there was no such thing yet. In Spain, with the Iberic population majority, there were Carthaginians, Romans, Celtic, Germanic, Moorish, etc… who settled that part of Europe. Spain is predominantly Mediterranean in race, but there are Atlantids, Alpines, Dinarics, Nordics which are present too. I am surely not denying that fact. For example the overall mean for light eyes is about 25% ( slightly higher than in Portugal and Greece), the most common skin phototype is type 3 ( standard European). I know many of the Spaniards on this thread have a complex of inferiority. The fact of the matter is that Spain is predominantly Med as are other Southern European countries. Nothing to cry about.
When I was speaking about the Mediterranean world, I was not immediately relating to Spain. You however immediately thought it was Spain.

I was just responding to your stupid claims about most Spaniards being olive skinned and nearly all of them being dark eyed and dark haired, which are not true.

And Spaniards are not the result of a melting pot. They are mostly the resulting mixture of Celts with ancient Iberians. All the other contributions such as Roman, Germanic, North African, Phoenician and what not were very secondary/peripheral and didn't alter much the primordial Celtiberian base of modern Spaniards and Portuguese.

[Cristiano viejo]

By that same logic people in 2 or 3 centuries in Australia will be as brown as southern Europeans.
South Europeans are not brown.


Type V? What?

Type V pigmentation is frequent among populations from the Middle East, parts of the Mediterranean and Southern Europe, Romani people, parts of Africa, Latin America, and the South Asian subcontinent.It ranges from olive to tan, Middle Eastern skin tones. This skin type very rarely burns and tans quite easily.

Seriously man, you are incredibily RETARDED.

[Ruggery]

Type V? What?

Type V pigmentation is frequent among populations from the Middle East, parts of the Mediterranean and Southern Europe, Romani people, parts of Africa, Latin America, and the South Asian subcontinent.It ranges from olive to tan, Middle Eastern skin tones. This skin type very rarely burns and tans quite easily.

Type V is almost non-existent in Europeans.

[vader]

Type V is almost non-existent in Europeans.

good you didn't forget us
https://i.imgur.com/IKvaKGI.jpg

[SouthDutch7991]

Over-Nordify? Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! It is not Western Europeans who look more like Iberians. Rather, there is an amount of Celtic and Germanic blood in the Iberian population. Remember the Celts and Germans etc… these people settled amongst a Mediterranean majority. At one point, you had those who were called Celtiberians, right? You already know in Western and North-Western Europe, populations are largely Germanic or Celtic or a combination of both. This is not case with Baltic, Finnic, Slavic and Uralic people of Eastern Europe and Eurasia ( for Uralic folks), they didn’t settle there and have no history there. This is why there is more of a chance of an Iberian looking like a Nordic/Alpine than looking East Baltid/Neo Danubian. There is no over-nordification as you imply. It is rather you who misunderstand the word Nordic. Most Balts, Finns, Slavs, Uralics are not Nordic despite being blond rather belong to East Europid racial phenotypes.

I don't use nordic in the phenotypical sense but rather raw blondeness/blueness.

[Ruggery]

good you didn't forget us
https://i.imgur.com/IKvaKGI.jpg

I said almost because there is a very small minority like 1 or 2% that may have it,
By the way your tone seems more IV than V.

[Ruggery]

South Europeans are not brown.

I said it wrong, I didn't mean brown, I meant more tan or darker, which is true.

[Septentrion]

I was just responding to your stupid claims about most Spaniards being olive skinned and nearly all of them being dark eyed and dark haired, which are not true.

And Spaniards are not the result of a melting pot. They are mostly the resulting mixture of Celts with ancient Iberians. All the other contributions such as Roman, Germanic, North African, Phoenician and what not were very secondary/peripheral and didn't alter much the primordial Celtiberian base of modern Spaniards and Portuguese.

Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Please stop with the imbecility! It is always Spaniards with their complexes of inferiority. Not so much the Portuguese though. Facts are that Spaniards are predominantly dark-haired and dark-eyed. Approximately 25% of Spaniards are light-eyed though. For the Portuguese, Greeks, Bulgarians, it’s similar too or slightly lower. Nothing wrong with that, they are still Europeans. I don’t think that anybody denied the Spanish Celtiberian ancestry. I tell facts the way they are. I sure don’t cut corners. We, Europeans are not identical. A North Euro has more in common with another North Euro than he would with a South Euro and vice-versa. Different place, different lineage, different history. Over 80% of Irish have light eyes for example, this should be expected as they are North Euros. Estonians are similarly light-eyed. Spain has a higher ratio of skin type 4/5 than either Estonia or Ireland. OK! This is doesn’t change change their European identity.

[Septentrion]

South Europeans are not brown.



Seriously man, you are incredibily RETARDED.

Please stop being a rude infant!

[Septentrion]

Type V is almost non-existent in Europeans.

You are right, it is almost non-existent. Nevertheless, it’s found among the darkest Southern Europeans.

[Septentrion]

What modern study is that? It is done by people looking at pictures and I think that is done by a poster on here. Ireland is more brunet than Britain and the majority hair colour is light and mid brown. These are the most numerous shades. There are no modern day studies on things like hair colour.

The composite colouring would be someone with brown hair, fair skin and blue eyes.

Example below from one of the more darker areas i.e. Co Kerry.

https://e1.365dm.com/19/08/2048x1152/skysports-kerry-peter-keane_4760159.jpg

This is an older team from Kerry so fairly consistent.

https://gaelicart.ie/app/uploads/2021/01/Kerry-2000-GA-667.jpg

Here some girl's teams from the same county.

https://mygaa.club/assets/img/clubs/kerrycamogie.jpg

https://m.psecn.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iMPKONMgznw/s/750/09-Kerry-Ladies-Camogie6484.jpg



The Irish are as a whole the fairest-skinned people in the world. To be more accurate, their overall pigmentation combo is Pale freckly skin + Blue eyes + Brown hair. I used the term «pale skin» to différentiante it from «fair skin». As most Europeans are fair-skinned, but not pale-skinned. In hair color, if I combined reddish + blonde + light/medium brown shades total to 64%. However Trolls paint them as these darker people. What a joke!

[Creoda]

I picked that up when looking him up. He felt Celts were closer to Africans so I'm dubious about his figures.
I've read much of The Races of Britain and didn't see anything like that, and highly doubt it. He speculated that one minority phenotype ('Iberian') in the British Isles, most commonly found in Western Ireland, may ultimately be of African/Ibero-Berber origin; but that's about it, doesn't present that as fact.

[Septentrion]

I've read much of The Races of Britain and didn't see anything like that, and highly doubt it. He speculated that one minority phenotype ('Iberian') in the British Isles, most commonly found in Western Ireland, may ultimately be of African/Ibero-Berber origin; but that's about it, doesn't present that as fact.

He was anti-Irish as many British of his days. This should be expected.

[Gallop]

One more meaningless thread.

[Creoda]

He was anti-Irish as many British of his days. This should be expected.
Even if that's true, which I didn't notice, it's irrelevant to his work and particularly the stats collected. He wasn't some anonymous poster on the internet who never gave his sources.

It would be nice to dismiss data from anyone who has other opinions I don't like.

[Septentrion]

Even if that's true, which I didn't notice, it's irrelevant to his work and particularly the stats collected. He wasn't some anonymous poster on the internet who never gave his sources.

It would be nice to dismiss data from anyone who has other opinions I don't like.

He didn’t have to be anonymous. He was a professional anthropologist in his day. His subtle anti-Irish views were OK in those days. He wasn’t out of the ordinary

[slaog]

I'd say it's a tie:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FktPXIFUoAAsCtn?format=jpg&name=900x900

I was wondering when the first Colin Farrell picture showed up. Only took 2 pages.

[slaog]

From my experience it seems many people can't grasp the concept of race. In their mind they will have a sterotype from a particular country, which might be accurate but the problem is they use that sterotype for the whole population. So some American might see Irish people as redheads. Many British will see Irish people as Colin Farrell like.

They will then use that as a template when debating, instead of using groups of people. When a group of people are shown they will single out some person who fits their template.

[Septentrion]

From my experience it seems many people can't grasp the concept of race. In their mind they will have a sterotype from a particular country, which might be accurate but the problem is they use that sterotype for the whole population. So some American might see Irish people as redheads. Many British will see Irish people as Colin Farrell like.

They will then use that as a template when debating, instead of using groups of people. When a group of people are shown they will single out some person who fits their template.

The Irish in general are in between those two extreme views, with dark blond to medium brown hair, blue or light eyes, pale skin tone.

[Septentrion]

Type 5 doesn't exist among Europeans, and quite frankly even the majority of Iranians are not that dark.

Iranians are not that dark compared to who? Perhaps you. If you compare Iranians to the overall European populations, they are darker. Skin type 5 is found throughout Asia, Iran is in Asia not Europe by the way.

[Septentrion]

Latitude > longitude when it comes to phenotypic similarities.

Correct!!!!!

[Septentrion]

Type V is almost non-existent in Europeans.

A minority of Spaniards classify to the skin phototype V. I know what I’m talking about. Although I do agree, it is not the dominant skin type in any European population.

[Septentrion]

I said it wrong, I didn't mean brown, I meant more tan or darker, which is true.

No, you didn’t say it wrong at all. There are many South Europeans who have a light brown skin or «brunet-white» as some anthropologists called it. We have to note that Europeans are not identical in skin color either. If someone says that they are identical it’s due to ignorance.
These are skin types according to the Fitzpatrick scale :
Type 1 - light, pale white
Type 2 - white, fair
Type 3 - medium white to olive
Type 4 - olive, moderate brown
Type 5 - brown
Type 6 - brown, very dark brown to black

Spanish population
Type 1 = 1%
Type 2 = 9%
Type 3 = 45%
Type 4 = 40%
Type 5 = 5%

[alnortedelsur]

No, you didn’t say it wrong at all. There are many South Europeans who have a light brown skin or «brunet-white» as some anthropologists called it. We have to note that Europeans are not identical in skin color either. If someone says that they are identical it’s due to ignorance.
These are skin types according to the Fitzpatrick scale :
Type 1 - light, pale white
Type 2 - white, fair
Type 3 - medium white to olive
Type 4 - olive, moderate brown
Type 5 - brown
Type 6 - brown, very dark brown to black

Spanish population
Type 1 = 1%
Type 2 = 9%
Type 3 = 45%
Type 4 = 40%
Type 5 = 5%

From which page of the Lord of the Rings did you get that? LOL

Most Spaniards have between skin types 2 and 3 in the Fitzpatrick scale, being type 4 a very minority (in the single digits), and type 5 is practically non-existent. Not sure if type 1 is as low as only 1%. Everything else are just mental masturbation.

Nearly half of the ethninc Spanish population skin type 4? WTF! You must have got those numbers after smoking weed all day.

[Septentrion]

From which page of the Lord of the Rings did you get that? LOL

Most Spaniards have between skin types 2 and 3 in the Fitzpatrick scale, being type 4 a very minority (in the single digits), and type 5 is practically non-existent. Not sure if type 1 is as low as only 1%. Everything else are just mental masturbation.

Nearly half of the ethninc Spanish population skin type 4? WTF! You must have got those numbers after smoking weed all day.

Please shut up! You don’t know anything! You are always super sensitive because you’re ignorant. You well know that Spaniards are not pale. The most common skin phototype III and skin phototype IV. You’re just babbling nonsense!

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/k6kndd/skin_color_phototype_distribution_among_caucasian/

«Type 4» single digits, my foot!

[Grace O'Malley]

Please shut up! You don’t know anything! You are always super sensitive because you’re ignorant. You well know that Spaniards are not pale. The most common skin phototype III and skin phototype IV. You’re just babbling nonsense!

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/k6kndd/skin_color_phototype_distribution_among_caucasian/

«Type 4» single digits, my foot!

Here's the chart.

https://i.redd.it/65nqml5276361.png

[Grace O'Malley]

Another video. Girl is from LA and she looks of Italian descent to me. She's interviewing people in Dublin and also Galway. The odd non-Irish in here. The last guy interviewed is Austrian but if he didn't open his mouth would not have thought him non-Irish.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSBVD5OzcQU

[Hektor12]

Here's the chart.

Is 1/5 olive skin in Ireland realistic?

[Cristiano viejo]

From which page of the Lord of the Rings did you get that? LOL

Most Spaniards have between skin types 2 and 3 in the Fitzpatrick scale, being type 4 a very minority (in the single digits), and type 5 is practically non-existent. Not sure if type 1 is as low as only 1%. Everything else are just mental masturbation.

Nearly half of the ethninc Spanish population skin type 4? WTF! You must have got those numbers after smoking weed all day.
:lol:

Septentrion and his drugs :laugh:

[Septentrion]

:lol:

Septentrion and his drugs :laugh:

Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! Very funny Conquistador! Yeah my drugs are putting up facts, not emotions.

[alnortedelsur]

Please shut up! You don’t know anything! You are always super sensitive because you’re ignorant. You well know that Spaniards are not pale. The most common skin phototype III and skin phototype IV. You’re just babbling nonsense!

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/k6kndd/skin_color_phototype_distribution_among_caucasian/

«Type 4» single digits, my foot!

I'm not implying that Spaniards are pigmentation wise the same as Central and Northern Euros, you dimwit!

But the difference is more about Central and Northern Euros having higher frequencies of individuals with skin type I and II than Spaniards, and Spaniards having a higher radio of skin type III over skin type II, plus less incidence of blondish hair tones and light eyes compared to Central and Northern Europeans, and things like that. But no way nearly half of the Spanish population are olive skinned.

[Septentrion]

Is 1/5 olive skin in Ireland realistic?

Where did you get that?

[Cristiano viejo]

I'm not implying that Spaniards are pigmentation wise the same as Central and Northern Euros, you dimwit!


Skin colour is overrated. See some pictures of the basket female matchs between Spain and Belgium

https://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multimedia/imagenes/2021/06/05/16229257962324.jpg

https://imagenes.elpais.com/resizer/BYq8NLCCoptg83HJOVW4VCwpUM8=/1960x1470/arc-anglerfish-eu-central-1-prod-prisa.s3.amazonaws.com/public/TBNQCJ2CYUMZU2UWOZNY6LDLA4.jpg

https://image.ondacero.es/clipping/cmsimages02/2018/09/25/C6B9BF72-D847-472B-B0A9-E9B24A22C684/58.jpg

https://estaticos-cdn.sport.es/clip/7dee0c89-036d-4d1d-a781-b3dc0c445d5f_alta-libre-aspect-ratio_default_0.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

Is 1/5 olive skin in Ireland realistic?

That is from a skin cancer study so whatever those results show is accurate. I would say my father had skin type III because he had a more olive undertone and could tan. My mother was skin type I.

This study was available online in the past but now you can just see the details about the skin type.

The Irish are generally considered to have a fair complexion. We surveyed the distribution of skin type in an Irish city population (n = 1000). Skin type prevalence was as follows: type 1: 26%, type 2: 49.6%, type 3: 19.7%, type 4: 4.3%, type 5: 0.3%, type 6: 0.1%. Sunbeds were used by 16% of the population. Malignant melanoma occurred in 1.4% of patients, non-melanoma skin cancer in 6%. The high frequency of sunbed use in a fair skinned population and the high incidence of skin cancer is disturbing and highlights the need for ongoing public health education regarding ultraviolet radiation risks.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02944190

[Cristiano viejo]

That is from a skin cancer study so whatever those results show is accurate.
It can not be accurate if says 5% of Spaniards have BROWN skin, sorry.

[Grace O'Malley]

It can not be accurate if says 5% of Spaniards have BROWN skin, sorry.

I'm explaining where the information from Ireland comes from so I'm saying that is accurate. The other studies would have to be chased up but all these skin type results come from cancer studies.

[vader]

It can not be accurate if says 5% of Spaniards have BROWN skin, sorry.

definitely possible.

[Septentrion]

It can not be accurate if says 5% of Spaniards have BROWN skin, sorry.

Ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!

[Septentrion]

I'm not implying that Spaniards are pigmentation wise the same as Central and Northern Euros, you dimwit!

But the difference is more about Central and Northern Euros having higher frequencies of individuals with skin type I and II than Spaniards, and Spaniards having a higher radio of skin type III over skin type II, plus less incidence of blondish hair tones and light eyes compared to Central and Northern Europeans, and things like that. But no way nearly half of the Spanish population are olive skinned.

The most common skin phototypes among the Spaniards types III and IV. This is similar to European populations within the same latitude. Southern Euros ( Spanish included) in particular have higher frequencies of skin types which can tan easily. These in European terms is skin type IV. There are Northern Europeans who are of skin type 4, so what is your problem ?

[Septentrion]

I'm explaining where the information from Ireland comes from so I'm saying that is accurate. The other studies would have to be chased up but all these skin type results come from cancer studies.

Haven’t you noticed a certain behavior on these threads? When one says the Brits or Irish are so «dark», no one seem to have problem. However when one says that the Spaniards or Italians are, then all these Iberians want to jump on your neck. Isn’t it strange?

[Septentrion]

Most Spaniards have either a creamy-white skin which easily tans and burns very little or have a natural olive skin tone. As expected in the Mediterranean region.

[Ruggery]

Haven’t you noticed a certain behavior on these threads? When one says the Brits or Irish are so «dark», no one seem to have problem. However when one says that the Spaniards or Italians are, then all these Iberians want to jump on your neck. Isn’t it strange?

What happens is that many people like to exaggerate too much, also the Iberians are the target of all the trolls to attack them.

[Ruggery]

No, you didn’t say it wrong at all. There are many South Europeans who have a light brown skin or «brunet-white» as some anthropologists called it. We have to note that Europeans are not identical in skin color either. If someone says that they are identical it’s due to ignorance.
These are skin types according to the Fitzpatrick scale :
Type 1 - light, pale white
Type 2 - white, fair
Type 3 - medium white to olive
Type 4 - olive, moderate brown
Type 5 - brown
Type 6 - brown, very dark brown to black

Spanish population
Type 1 = 1%
Type 2 = 9%
Type 3 = 45%
Type 4 = 40%
Type 5 = 5%

Brown = Non-white and Non-European that is usually associated here, tan on the other hand if it can be for Europeans.

[Septentrion]

That is from a skin cancer study so whatever those results show is accurate. I would say my father had skin type III because he had a more olive undertone and could tan. My mother was skin type I.

This study was available online in the past but now you can just see the details about the skin type.

The Irish are generally considered to have a fair complexion. We surveyed the distribution of skin type in an Irish city population (n = 1000). Skin type prevalence was as follows: type 1: 26%, type 2: 49.6%, type 3: 19.7%, type 4: 4.3%, type 5: 0.3%, type 6: 0.1%. Sunbeds were used by 16% of the population. Malignant melanoma occurred in 1.4% of patients, non-melanoma skin cancer in 6%. The high frequency of sunbed use in a fair skinned population and the high incidence of skin cancer is disturbing and highlights the need for ongoing public health education regarding ultraviolet radiation risks.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02944190

For olive skin amongst the Irish. It’s way less than a fifth that have a real olive skin. As they are the palest.

[Septentrion]

Is 1/5 olive skin in Ireland realistic?

How do you get your 1/5?. Note well and learn. Skin type III varies from a medium white to olive. So it cannot be that one fifth of the Irish are olive-skinned.

[Grace O'Malley]

And responding with something that has more to do with the topic of the thread, I would say that the Irish are clearly more similar to Estonians in terms of "coloring" but in terms of facial features, they tend to have something more in common with Spaniards.

It must be taken into account that the Estonians are shown as Baltic with a lot of Slavic mixture in the G25, and that it is the Lithuanians who, without ceasing to have that mixture, appear somewhat more different among the Baltic countries.

In any case, the hypothetical links between the Iberian Peninsula and the British Islands are reported in a multitude of studies that take YDNA or cultural aspects more into consideration than current autosomal data, and the latter seem to indicate what you maintain, that we have little in common.

I don't think facially the Irish are similar to either Spanish or Estonians. I think Irish have higher cheekbones on average than Spanish for example.
Just looking quickly the first individual for Kerry GAA that popped up was this player. He is the Kerry captain.

https://www.thesun.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/08/1775746-e1566925294834.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/82E4xXi.png

Trying to think of a famous Spaniard who would not be controversial I've picked Iker Casillas as an example

https://i.imgur.com/mCILUHu.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Iker-Casillas-SportsTrade-2021-cropped.jpg

This is an Estonian football player

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/v7tmVrXqWAY/maxresdefault.jpg

The are all good representatives of their ethnicities.

Estonian football team

https://s.err.ee/photo/crop/2023/01/12/1743895hd2bdt46.jpg

Are Spanish facial features more similar to Irish than Estonians are? What is obvious to me is if you put pictures of these ethnicities in groups they are all easy to tell apart.

[Grace O'Malley]

Haven’t you noticed a certain behavior on these threads? When one says the Brits or Irish are so «dark», no one seem to have problem. However when one says that the Spaniards or Italians are, then all these Iberians want to jump on your neck. Isn’t it strange?

I think on Anthrofora there has always been this push to have Irish and Welsh pushed as these dark Celts. That was definitely what happened in the past. It has changed a bit now with genetic studies that have come out. Genetic studies show Irish have been in Northwestern Europe as long as any other population. They aren't some blowins from Central Europe or even more Southernly regions. I personally don't think people here are really aware of what Irish and Welsh people actually look like. Even between the Irish and Welsh there are differences.

Regarding Spanish I do understand that they are a bit frustrated with people over-emphasising Moor input and things like that. Spanish people can talk on that topic better than me.

[Septentrion]

Brown = Non-white and Non-European that is usually associated here, tan on the other hand if it can be for Europeans.

That is too bad, fella. White or European people are not identical, we show a variety from the palest-skinned in the northwest to the most brunet-white skins in the south. From the blondest-haired in the north to the most brunet-haired in the south. From the bluest-eyed in the north to the brownest-eyed in the south. There is obviously a pigmentation variation within the so-called White race, as they are in other races. Yes, we Europeans are called White people or Pale faces ( by non-Europeans), because overall we are still lighter-pigmented than non-White or non-European people. This doesn’t mean that we are identically the same. There are differences within regions. The Mediterranean region which is a warmer region tends to harbor a higher frequency of Europeans who have a skin type that is more tolerable to the sun. On the other hand in cooler to colder regions where there is less sunshine, an increase in frequency of Europeans with a skin type much more sensitive to the sun is found. It is pretty simple, I think. So skin type V is definitely not common in Europe, due to the fact Europeans are already as a whole a very light group, but there is a small minority of Europeans who have that skin type and they tend to be mostly found in Southern Europe for geographical, historical and climatic reasons. The great bulk of the Spanish population is type III/IV as in many other European populations. So I have seen a «Trolling trend» on these threads not from you though. However, some ignorant people have called me a «Nordicist», etc…, while I am much more inclusive of all European types. I’ve never excluded one European type from not being European. While, you have Southern Euros here who are a lot more Nordicist by far than anyone. Spain is located in the southernmost part of Europe. Therefore one shouldn’t be surprised to see Europeans there naturally with a higher frequency of skin type IV (40%). Italy slightly has even higher frequencies of type IV. This skin type is found in other European populations too, just at a different frequency. Although, one could say, it becomes a minority or even insignificant in Northern Europe ( British Isles, Scandinavia, Finland, Baltic States, parts of Northern European Russia). For reasons, I have already given.

[Septentrion]

I think on Anthrofora there has always been this push to have Irish and Welsh pushed as these dark Celts. That was definitely what happened in the past. It has changed a bit now with genetic studies that have come out. Genetic studies show Irish have been in Northwestern Europe as long as any other population. They aren't some blowins from Central Europe or even more Southernly regions. I personally don't think people here are really aware of what Irish and Welsh people actually look like. Even between the Irish and Welsh there are differences.

Regarding Spanish I do understand that they are a bit frustrated with people over-emphasising Moor input and things like that. Spanish people can talk on that topic better than me.

The truth is that most people do know how the Irish and Welsh people look like. They aren’t as dumb as some might think. They were just playing along with the OP or OPs’ agenda. When Irish or Welsh were painted as «Iberians», everyone was happy with the biggest lie. No one really said anything till I came in the thread and dealt on the topic and started to enlighten and set people straight. I shook that lie so bad, till it was torn to shreds. How could the Irish and Welsh be «so Iberian» while the Belgian, Dutch, French, German, Luxembourgers, Swiss weren’t? The Irish or Welsh are definitely not darker than us here in the Low Countries, Germany, etc…. The OP’s agenda of painting only Germanic countries as the «fairest-haired and lightest-eyed» was also decimated to shreds. As Baltic States are much lighter than Germanic countries outside of Scandinavia. Genetics just re-enforced what I was already saying. Now getting to the Iberian issue, folks were content when they were painted to be identical to the Irish or Welsh, which is the biggest lie, but they loved it. Now when people started talking about Moors, then everyone got aggressive, trying to hide past or the truth. I’m definitely not saying that Iberians are Moors, because they’re not. Iberians are Europeans, Southern Europeans by excellence, the Moors like others, the Carthaginians, the Romans, the Germans, etc… did settle their land and intermingled within the larger, more numerous Iberian population. So we shouldn’t expect Iberians to be identical to other Europeans, the same is with any other European population. Geography, history, climate played a role in how Europeans came to be and differed from one another. I don’t think there is an over-emphasizing of the Moor occupation ( 700-800 yrs) of Iberia. Rather a denial of it. Well people have the right to like or hate them, especially since they were obviously a non-European people. They could be more hated than loved, that’s for sure.

[PaganPoet]

Can somebody tell me what is the opposite of an intellectual orgasm?

[Septentrion]

I don't think facially the Irish are similar to either Spanish or Estonians. I think Irish have higher cheekbones on average than Spanish for example.
Just looking quickly the first individual for Kerry GAA that popped up was this player. He is the Kerry captain.

https://www.thesun.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/08/1775746-e1566925294834.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/82E4xXi.png

Trying to think of a famous Spaniard who would not be controversial I've picked Iker Casillas as an example

https://i.imgur.com/mCILUHu.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Iker-Casillas-SportsTrade-2021-cropped.jpg

This is an Estonian football player

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/v7tmVrXqWAY/maxresdefault.jpg

The are all good representatives of their ethnicities.

Estonian football team

https://s.err.ee/photo/crop/2023/01/12/1743895hd2bdt46.jpg

Are Spanish facial features more similar to Irish than Estonians are? What is obvious to me is if you put pictures of these ethnicities in groups they are all easy to tell apart.

The Irish are in the extreme NW quadrant of Europe, while the Estonians are in the NE of Europe and Iberians in the extreme SW of Europe. Yes, they are easily pretty different from another. I choose Estonians mainly because of pigmentation similarities ( Fair).

[Septentrion]

Brown = Non-white and Non-European that is usually associated here, tan on the other hand if it can be for Europeans.

Well you can say that skin type V is non-White, this has truth in it, but then you can run along dangerous ideology ( Nordicism) lines. Since Europeans are not equally white-skinned, that is a fact. Then those Europeans who have a skin type IV (olive, moderate brown) are not Whites too either according to you. Do you know that many Europeans or White people have this skin type (IV)? If you thought that all Europeans are equally white-skinned, take that idea of your head, because they are surely not. Take look at for example:

Western Europe populations
French : (I) 11.6%, (II) 25.7%, (III) 30.9%, (IV) 31.8%
Belgian : (I) 13.2%, (II) 20.7%, (III) 37.7%, (IV) 28.4%
Dutch : (I) 6.5%, (II) 19.6%, (III) 52.0%, (IV) 21.8%
Swiss ( German-speakers) : (I) 1.9%, (II) 17%, (III) 56.2%, (IV) 23.9%

In all these populations, you are seeing, different frequencies per skin phototype, right?
And that there is a type IV ( darkest skin type in most Europe outside of the Mediterranean) representation. One can’t surely call all those Europeans non-Whites. It would be foolish to do so. Only those Nordicists do it, but they are fooling themselves as they surely have members of their own families who are type IV. No matter how blond their hair color might be. The palest skin types are more frequent in northwestern Euros, particularly those from a Celtic background. The fact that Europeans are called Whites, is only because the lightest people are found among them, but they are not all equally white-skinned.

[Septentrion]

These beautiful fair-haired Polish women are skin type III
https://i.imgur.com/xZBX4lQ.jpg

[vader]

skin pigmentation is overrated. Old European populations (Mesolithic, paleolithic and further) were majority intermediate to dark skin (compared to modern european-standards, *not ssa-like*). It was sexual selection and diffusion of lighter skin sources due to farmers, eastern hg, ANE sources that contributed to why light skin is the standard for European's now (because it's the majority of European's genome). There was a dark skinned genome in Europe dating closer to 7,000 years ago in the Mesolithic era called the infamous 'La Brana' hunter-gatherer with blue-eye alleles. So even 7,000 years ago dark-skin was predominant... light skin in Europe is relatively recent compared to all of European history, that's a fact.

But I do think people should stop assuming foreign ancestry in Europeans solely due to dark skin appearances. It's not impossible for old, paleolithic, and mesolithic genes to be activated and those genes in most of europe (at least western) is super engrained in our genomes even today (it's a much longer span than recent farmer, and steppe ancestries that diluted our dna). Basques can be quite swarthy and they have butt-loads of whg dna. Despite what people say about light-skinned Latvians, sometimes they can be swarthy too, although sexual selection has lowered that rate obviously especially with their eastern dna that's very pale... but that's not whg influenced.

[Ruggery]

Well you can say that skin type V is non-White, this has truth in it, but then you can run along dangerous ideology ( Nordicism) lines. Since Europeans are not equally white-skinned, that is a fact. Then those Europeans who have a skin type IV (olive, moderate brown) are not Whites too either according to you. Do you know that many Europeans or White people have this skin type (IV)? If you thought that all Europeans are equally white-skinned, take that idea of your head, because they are surely not. Take look at for example:

Western Europe populations
French : (I) 11.6%, (II) 25.7%, (III) 30.9%, (IV) 31.8%
Belgian : (I) 13.2%, (II) 20.7%, (III) 37.7%, (IV) 28.4%
Dutch : (I) 6.5%, (II) 19.6%, (III) 52.0%, (IV) 21.8%
Swiss ( German-speakers) : (I) 1.9%, (II) 17%, (III) 56.2%, (IV) 23.9%

In all these populations, you are seeing, different frequencies per skin phototype, right?
And that there is a type IV ( darkest skin type in most Europe outside of the Mediterranean) representation. One can’t surely call all those Europeans non-Whites. It would be foolish to do so. Only those Nordicists do it, but they are fooling themselves as they surely have members of their own families who are type IV. No matter how blond their hair color might be. The palest skin types are more frequent in northwestern Euros, particularly those from a Celtic background. The fact that Europeans are called Whites, is only because the lightest people are found among them, but they are not all equally white-skinned.

First of all, you are confusing my friend, I did not say that only people with very pale skin were white, I only said that brown people were non-European, Indians, North Africans, Latin American mestizos, Amerindians and even some Africans, I know the skin type The most common in almost all of Europe is type III followed by II, IV seems a bit exaggerated to me but let's assume that many Europeans have it, V instead is already the one that non-Europeans have.

I didn't say that all whites have the same skin tone, that's pretty obvious, but even the darkest III-IV skin is still lighter than non-Europeans, although there may be some Asians who have III-IV skin. but from II it is already almost non-existent in them.

[Septentrion]

Most Spaniards aren't olive-skinned moron. Most of them have a very standard European fair skin tone, and they aren't uniformly very dark haired and eyed as you imply. They have their decent share of blondish hair tones, green, blue, and hazel eyes, just like any other European population.

Let me simplify it for you, cry baby. The standard European fair skin is skin phototype III. It is the most common skin type in Spain too (45%). However a good number of Spaniards have a skin darker than that, as expected ( Mediterranean ancestry). Don’t be alarmed, other Southern Euro groups show a similar situation when it comes to skin color. I never said that Spaniards are identical, obviously not. Nevertheless in hair and eye color, they are darker than the European mean, again so are other European groups from the same latitude. The most common eye colors in Spain are dark ( medium brown, dark brown, brown-mixed, hazel-brown) in at least 70% of the cases. Light eyes ( blue/gray/green/hazel) are found in a large minority, about 11.75% are blue-eyed, while 12.25% are gray/green/hazel-eyed. In other words, around 23% to 25% have light eyes. Cantabria and Asturias are bluest and lightest-eyed regions of Spain. The most common hair is dark brown ( especially deep dark brown), followed by black or medium brown shades. Fair hair tones ( Blond/light brown & ginger) are found some 13% of the total.

[Beowulf]

Let me simplify it for you, cry baby. The standard European fair skin is skin phototype III. It is the most common skin type in Spain too (45%). However a good number of Spaniards have a skin darker than that, as expected ( Mediterranean ancestry). Don’t be alarmed, other Southern Euro groups show a similar situation when it comes to skin color. I never said that Spaniards are identical, obviously not. Nevertheless in hair and eye color, they are darker than the European mean, again so are other European groups from the same latitude. The most common eye colors in Spain are dark ( medium brown, dark brown, brown-mixed, hazel-brown) in at least 70% of the cases. Light eyes ( blue/gray/green/hazel) are found in a large minority, about 11.75% are blue-eyed, while 12.25% are gray/green/hazel-eyed. In other words, around 23% to 25% have light eyes. Cantabria and Asturias are bluest and lightest-eyed regions of Spain. The most common hair is dark brown ( especially deep dark brown), followed by black or medium brown shades. Fair hair tones ( Blond/light brown & ginger) are found some 13% of the total.

i thought hazel was considered Dark eyed

[B01AB20]

Haven’t you noticed a certain behavior on these threads? When one says the Brits or Irish are so «dark», no one seem to have problem. However when one says that the Spaniards or Italians are, then all these Iberians want to jump on your neck. Isn’t it strange?

How many are 'all these iberians'?. One, two?

Despite you're always giving your opinion about iberians as if you were such an expert, this is the first, and probably the last, time I quote you.

Cv is only one,OOOOOONNNE iberian individual, and he's always ready to fight with anyone about whatever thing. He's quite crazy and that's what motivates you I guess.

But notice that, majority of 'all these iberians', including potuguese users, don't care much about your opinions about us and never reply to you.

Maybe the french are right about you belgians... :p

[vader]

How many are 'all these iberians'?. One, two?

Despite you're always giving your opinion about iberians as if you were such an expert, this is the first, and probably the last, time I quote you.

Cv is only one,OOOOOONNNE iberian individual, and he's always ready to fight with anyone about whatever thing. He's quite crazy and that's what motivates you I guess.

But notice that, majority of 'all these iberians', including potuguese users, don't care much about your opinions about us and never reply to you.

Maybe the french are right about you belgians... :p

CV almost single-handedly led to the creation of Italic Roots... with mayyyybe the inclusion of 1, or 2 other odd-ball iberians. Most iberians here don't give a flying fck about any of this stuff.

[B01AB20]

CV almost single-handedly led to the creation of Italic Roots... with mayyyybe the inclusion of 1, or 2 other odd-ball iberians. Most iberians here don't give a flying fck about any of this stuff.

And Sikeliot, but for opposite reasons.

And yes, we`re overall darker than irish and asturians, or estonians.

We've like 100 or 200 times more sunny days than they have, combined.

Go to Tallin to get a pale and go to Spain to get a tan. Old saying here in Spain. :cool:

[Cristiano viejo]

Now getting to the Iberian issue, folks were content when they were painted to be identical to the Irish or Welsh, which is the biggest lie, but they loved it.
Irish? Welsh? jajaja yeah we love being painted identical than probably the ugliest Europeans :lol:


definitely possible.
Definitely impossible. Post Spaniards that have brown skin or shut up.


And Sikeliot, but for opposite reasons.

And yes, we`re overall darker than irish and asturians, or estonians.

We've like 100 or 200 times more sunny days than they have, combined.

Go to Tallin to get a pale and go to Spain to get a tan. Old saying here in Spain. :cool:
Specially than Asturians :heh:


How many are 'all these iberians'?. One, two?

Despite you're always giving your opinion about iberians as if you were such an expert, this is the first, and probably the last, time I quote you.

Cv is only one,OOOOOONNNE iberian individual, and he's always ready to fight with anyone about whatever thing. He's quite crazy and that's what motivates you I guess.

But notice that, majority of 'all these iberians', including potuguese users, don't care much about your opinions about us and never reply to you.

Maybe the french are right about you belgians... :p

You vote PSOE... and I am the crazy :laugh:

[Septentrion]

How many are 'all these iberians'?. One, two?

Despite you're always giving your opinion about iberians as if you were such an expert, this is the first, and probably the last, time I quote you.

Cv is only one,OOOOOONNNE iberian individual, and he's always ready to fight with anyone about whatever thing. He's quite crazy and that's what motivates you I guess.

But notice that, majority of 'all these iberians', including potuguese users, don't care much about your opinions about us and never reply to you.

Maybe the french are right about you belgians... :p

Oh please shut up. You are maybe one of them. I am not here to name them. They know who they are. I don’t really care what they say.

[Septentrion]

i thought hazel was considered Dark eyed

It is in most cases. However in some populations, they make the difference between lighter hazel eyes and darker hazel eyes. The more hazel-brown are considered dark while the light hazel eyes of people such as that of Charlize Theron are considered light.

[B01AB20]

Oh please shut up. You are maybe one of them. I am not here to name them. They know who they are. I don’t really care what they say.

As expected you can't give a coherent and specific answer, only to show you divine disdain as if you really didn't care.

But reality is that most of your posts here is to reply to and to fight with people that you don't really care what they say.

What a conceited moron.

[Septentrion]

i thought hazel was considered Dark eyed

See Charlize Theron (actress) has hazel eyes. Would call these eyes dark?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/5f/2c/9a5f2ce3122f63676f571c954e1c67fe.jpg

[Beowulf]

See Charlize Theron (actress) has hazel eyes. Would call these eyes dark?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/5f/2c/9a5f2ce3122f63676f571c954e1c67fe.jpg

nope those are light eyes for sure

[Septentrion]

As expected you can't give a coherent and specific answer, only to show you divine disdain as if you really didn't care.

But reality is that most of your posts here is to reply to and to fight with people that you don't really care what they say.

What a conceited moron.

Hey smart heck. Listen I have nothing against your people, just discussing anthropological points. Yes, there are those ignorant people whom I sometimes have to straighten up. OK! If you have nothing intelligent to say, I don’t have the time for you.

[B01AB20]

Hey smart heck. Listen I have nothing against your people, just discussing anthropological points. Yes, there are those ignorant people whom I sometimes have to straighten up. OK! If you have nothing intelligent to say, I don’t have the time for you.

OK, now 'there are those ignorant people whom I sometimes have to straighten up.', despite you don't care what they say... good. :thumb001:

I was triggered by your words 'all these iberians...', I felt mistreated by someone I never interact with and for something I barely do, like most of 'all these iberians' here.

Now as you said, please shut up, or choose better your words and observations, because as you have seen, you're not as smart as you think.

OK muchacho?

[Septentrion]

OK, now 'there are those ignorant people whom I sometimes have to straighten up.', despite you don't care what they say... good. :thumb001:

I was triggered by your words 'all these iberians...', I felt mistreated by someone I never interact with and for something I barely do, like most of 'all these iberians' here.

Now as you said, please shut up, or choose better your words and observations, because as you have seen, you're not as smart as you think.

OK muchacho?

Shut your trap please! Smart cookie. Nothing intelligent in your statement.

[Septentrion]

Yes, the Irish-Iberia myth continues to exist no matter what evidence you throw at those who continue to believe it.

Its usually pushed by those who hold anti Irish prejudices. Ulster loyalists continue to push it as do many English ethnonationalists.

So powerful is the belief that I reckon if you started a poll with who's closer to the Irish, England or Spain, most people would probably pick Spain!

True.

[Septentrion]

Of all the northern countries, it is the one with the most Mediterranean along with the UK, although no one says that it is the majority.

I would beg to differ. If we go to the true definition of the physical appearance of a pure Mediterranean person. Ireland just has as little of this racial component or even less than any of the northern European countries.

[Ruggery]

I would beg to differ. If we go to the true definition of the physical appearance of a pure Mediterranean person. Ireland just has as little of this racial component or even less than any of the northern European countries.

And also the one that has less Nordic.

[Septentrion]

And also the one that has less Nordic.

Ireland is very CM in race.

[Septentrion]

And also the one that has less Nordic.

The basic racial type of Ireland and the rest of the British Isles is Iron Age Nordid. Although a re-emergence of the CM ( notably Bruenn) is much greater among the Irish than the other British groups.

[ecptr]

The basic racial type of Ireland and the rest of the British Isles is Iron Age Nordid. Although a re-emergence of the CM ( notably Bruenn) is much greater among the Irish than the other British groups.

Brown-haired Nordids for the most part.

[Gallop]

In Poland

[Odelia]

I think on Anthrofora there has always been this push to have Irish and Welsh pushed as these dark Celts. That was definitely what happened in the past. It has changed a bit now with genetic studies that have come out. Genetic studies show Irish have been in Northwestern Europe as long as any other population. They aren't some blowins from Central Europe or even more Southernly regions. I personally don't think people here are really aware of what Irish and Welsh people actually look like. Even between the Irish and Welsh there are differences.

Regarding Spanish I do understand that they are a bit frustrated with people over-emphasising Moor input and things like that. Spanish people can talk on that topic better than me.
Everyone knows that Irish have the lightest skin in Europe. That's the stereotype even and it's pretty annoying to me, although it is fairly accurate (most stereotypes either way are accurate to some degree). "Darkifying" the some of them shouldn't be a problem or bothersome as we all know how pale and ruddy the Irish can be. And it's not that the anthroflora darkwash the Irish for the hell of it, they just want to "prove" that dark types exist in your part of the world to even out things. Spaniards have a far more better reason to get frustrated when they're darkwashed and linked with the Moors. Irish people are very safe here. I wouldn't even be threatened or frustrated just one bit. Do you get bothered when they darkwash the Irish? Just curious...Cos it's such a small virtually nonexistent issue, considering how light y'all can be...

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8181632.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Republic-of-Ireland-v-Sweden-Euro-2016-Group-E.jpg
https://www.connollycove.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/A-group-of-people-celebrating-St.-Patricks-day.jpg

And this meme of course...

https://i.imgur.com/fPUUf.jpeg

[Septentrion]

[QUOTE=ecptr;7687229]Brown-haired Nordids for the most part.[/QUOTE

Yes, the Iron Age Nordid is mostly brown-haired but has a much larger hair colour spectrum than many other Nordid types. In fact red hair is very common with this type.

[Grace O'Malley]

Everyone knows that Irish have the lightest skin in Europe. That's the stereotype even and it's pretty annoying to me, although it is fairly accurate (most stereotypes either way are accurate to some degree). "Darkifying" the some of them shouldn't be a problem or bothersome as we all know how pale and ruddy the Irish can be. And it's not that the anthroflora darkwash the Irish for the hell of it, they just want to "prove" that dark types exist in your part of the world to even out things. Spaniards have a far more better reason to get frustrated when they're darkwashed and linked with the Moors. Irish people are very safe here. I wouldn't even be threatened or frustrated just one bit. Do you get bothered when they darkwash the Irish? Just curious...Cos it's such a small virtually nonexistent issue, considering how light y'all can be...

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8181632.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Republic-of-Ireland-v-Sweden-Euro-2016-Group-E.jpg
https://www.connollycove.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/A-group-of-people-celebrating-St.-Patricks-day.jpg

And this meme of course...

https://i.imgur.com/fPUUf.jpeg

It was basically on this forum and it wasn't as simple as one population being darkened. What irritated me was that people used to have this idea that Irish and Welsh were the "Celts" and the Scots and English were the "Germanics" and with all the stereotypes and connotations that go with that. That was something that was more common in the first few years of this forum. Then they would put some genetic bias on this with Celts coming from different areas in Europe and tying populations together based on some "Celtic" affinity. In actual fact if you look at any genetic plots Isles populations plot together and they are all in Northwestern Europe. The Celtic thing is a bit confused everywhere and I really don't know how "Celtic" populations like the Irish are if meaning in a genetic sense? All I know is that genetically the Isles populations are all in a cluster so this Celtic/Germanic divide is really only cultural and in the end they all have very similar cultures these days. The closest genetic population to the Irish are the Scots. Also there is no Celtic cluster in that all those "Celtic" populations don't cluster with each other. Irish and Southwest Scots cluster together, Eastern Scots and English are closer and English separate the Welsh from the Scots and the Irish. So really there is a lot of shared genetics with Southeast English being closer to the South Dutch and Belgians getting more input from Europe from both Germanics as well as more French like populations.

This is still the best fine scaled plot of Ireland and Britain that has been done so far.

https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2018/01/dd.png

No one is denying that there are people that have darker colouring in any population. I find that interesting also. But the idea of people like the Welsh being particularly darker is an anthrofora myth that some people still state as fact.

[Chocolatepug37]

That’s just a few pictures and that’s just one of the several common phenotypes of Ireland. Those photos are more Viking based and not the med types

[Grace O'Malley]

That’s just a few pictures and that’s just one of the several common phenotypes of Ireland. Those photos are more Viking based and not the med types

Videos with loads of Irish people. They don't look like either Spanish or Estonian in my view.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNuIM2HHUcg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utdKjUZz-o0

[Monapps]

Videos with loads of Irish people. They don't look like either Spanish or Estonian in my view.

Imagine someone is holding a gun to your head and forces you to choose an answer or die. Do Irish people pass better in Estonia or Spain?

[Occiput in Starlight]

https://i.ibb.co/GWSsJ75/estonia.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[Vasag]

https://i.ibb.co/GWSsJ75/estonia.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

As a member of the Funk Sassy Unit, I can tell you the story of how the Estonian flag inspired us to create a delicious Irish stew and soup for grandmas.

One day, as we were traveling through Estonia on our tour, we saw the beautiful Estonian flag waving proudly in the wind. We were struck by the simple elegance of its design, and the way it captured the essence of the country's natural beauty.

As we continued our journey, we began to think about how we could incorporate this same sense of beauty and simplicity into our cooking. That's when we had an idea. "What if we created a dish that was inspired by the Estonian flag?"

We decided to start with an Irish stew, a hearty and comforting dish that would be perfect for the cold winter months. We used ingredients that corresponded with the colors of the flag: green herbs, white potatoes, and black beans. The result was a delicious stew that was both satisfying and visually stunning.

But we didn't stop there. We also created a soup for grandmas, using the same color scheme. The soup was made with vibrant green kale, creamy white beans, and flavorful black mushrooms. It was a dish that was not only delicious but also healthy and nourishing.

When we shared our dishes with our audiences, they were amazed. They had never seen such creative and inspired cooking before. And when we told them the story of how the Estonian flag had inspired us, they were even more impressed.

For us, creating these dishes was not just about the food, but about the connection between different cultures and the power of inspiration. The Estonian flag had shown us that beauty can be found in the simplest of things, and we had used that inspiration to create dishes that brought joy and comfort to others.

[Occiput in Starlight]

Exact same thing happened when my group went there!

[gixajo]

As a member of the Funk Sassy Unit, I can tell you the story of how the Estonian flag inspired us to create a delicious Irish stew and soup for grandmas.

One day, as we were traveling through Estonia on our tour, we saw the beautiful Estonian flag waving proudly in the wind. We were struck by the simple elegance of its design, and the way it captured the essence of the country's natural beauty.

As we continued our journey, we began to think about how we could incorporate this same sense of beauty and simplicity into our cooking. That's when we had an idea. "What if we created a dish that was inspired by the Estonian flag?"

We decided to start with an Irish stew, a hearty and comforting dish that would be perfect for the cold winter months. We used ingredients that corresponded with the colors of the flag: green herbs, white potatoes, and black beans. The result was a delicious stew that was both satisfying and visually stunning.

But we didn't stop there. We also created a soup for grandmas, using the same color scheme. The soup was made with vibrant green kale, creamy white beans, and flavorful black mushrooms. It was a dish that was not only delicious but also healthy and nourishing.

When we shared our dishes with our audiences, they were amazed. They had never seen such creative and inspired cooking before. And when we told them the story of how the Estonian flag had inspired us, they were even more impressed.

For us, creating these dishes was not just about the food, but about the connection between different cultures and the power of inspiration. The Estonian flag had shown us that beauty can be found in the simplest of things, and we had used that inspiration to create dishes that brought joy and comfort to others.

Do you know you are daltonic?

[gixajo]

Videos with loads of Irish people. They don't look like either Spanish or Estonian in my view.

eo]

After being for years in TA you must already know that we Spaniards are just dark Irish.

Dark Irish in winter and Northafricans in summer.:rolleyes: