What Modern British Populations are you Closer to (SCALED) [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

alnortedelsur

01-06-2023, 05:40 PM

Reminder: Mixed Latin Americans don't need to use Amerindian and SSA references (same on all these series of threads) since the purpose of the thread is to measure the actual distances to British populations of users from different ethnicities and mixtures, and their order of closeness to each British region.

As suggested by user Gixajo, I'm adding Ocadian and Shetlandic as references, which I forgot to add...

English,0.1318551,0.137043,0.0617883,0.044013,0.03 92299,0.0167481,0.0049845,0.0057448,0.0052637,0.00 56781,-0.0047691,0.0056161,-0.0125892,-0.0103507,0.0206153,0.0035521,-0.0103689,0.004094,0.003685,0.0029619,0.0059369,0. 0034036,-0.0032693,0.0137938,3.16e-05
English_Cornwall,0.1301962,0.1397525,0.0613546,0.0 431826,0.0419013,0.0164115,0.0034346,0.0063902,0.0 064819,0.0069669,-0.0046342,0.0064788,-0.0137455,-0.0102476,0.0207548,0.003172,-0.012527,0.0021146,0.0037613,0.0032419,0.0048088,0 .0038712,-0.0007584,0.0143671,0.0006909
Irish,0.1333605,0.1340977,0.0611689,0.0488642,0.03 7788,0.0193517,0.0032928,0.0047129,0.0035683,0.002 9265,-0.0069712,0.0058395,-0.0141892,-0.0140763,0.0259353,0.0052146,-0.0111456,0.0018944,0.0005974,0.0017758,0.0051145, 0.0012787,0.0002929,0.0144074,0.0006607
Scottish,0.1314657,0.1342312,0.0622654,0.0470426,0 .039106,0.0172812,0.0035502,0.0051756,0.0035719,0. 0028246,-0.005614,0.0050473,-0.0116806,-0.0119731,0.023024,0.0031254,-0.0112549,0.0027736,0.0025499,0.0014516,0.0042246, 0.0033076,-0.0006559,0.0135561,-0.0007698
Welsh,0.1319779,0.1381628,0.0601319,0.0430236,0.04 05922,0.0166218,0.0033135,0.006392,0.0062789,0.004 3372,-0.0042302,0.0059122,-0.0129112,-0.0109754,0.0205954,0.005708,-0.0087032,0.0023564,0.003086,0.0020072,0.0049849,0 .0038518,-1.24e-05,0.0112243,0.0008083
Orcadian,0.1306689,0.1342528,0.0629793,0.04845,0.0 387149,0.0175423,0.001786,0.0039229,0.0050312,0.00 1786,-0.0068367,0.0048108,-0.0119078,-0.0108308,0.0223531,0.0030364,-0.0123864,0.0034712,0.0026774,0.0003001,0.0049539, 0.0022504,-0.0021567,0.0100374,-0.0005988
Shetlandic,0.1343113,0.133373,0.060842,0.0479117,0 .0404177,0.0194293,0.00423,0.0046923,0.003545,-0.0041307,-0.0039513,0.006744,-0.0115457,-0.0126153,0.021308,0.0026077,-0.0087357,0.001436,0.002975,-0.0024597,0.0032027,0.0026793,0.0062853,0.0187977, 0.0026743

My results with this update:

Target: Alnortedelsur_scaled
Distance: 10.5738% / 0.10573783
88.4 English_Cornwall
11.6 Orcadian

Distanceto: Alnortedelsur_scaled
0.10574812 English_Cornwall
0.10600902 Welsh
0.10632932 Orcadian
0.10677254 English
0.10745830 Scottish
0.11004213 Irish
0.11218624 Shetlandic

Original post edited

Beowulf

01-06-2023, 05:42 PM

Target: ivan
Distance: 7.3272% / 0.07327183
73.2 English_Cornwall
26.8 Welsh

Distance to: ivan
0.07329703 English_Cornwall
0.07345880 Welsh
0.07562077 English
0.07989374 Scottish
0.08280596 Irish

Beowulf

01-06-2023, 06:12 PM

bump

gixajo

01-06-2023, 06:15 PM

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 6.5746% / 0.06574594
99.6 English_Cornwall
0.4 Welsh

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 8.0696% / 0.08069551
100.0 English_Cornwall

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 5.7282% / 0.05728219
100.0 English_Cornwall

Distances.

Distance to: gixajo_scaled
0.06574595 English_Cornwall
0.06613157 Welsh
0.06793278 English
0.07220253 Scottish
0.07484374 Irish

Distance to: gixajo_dad_scaled
0.08069551 English_Cornwall
0.08151287 Welsh
0.08321504 English
0.08723793 Scottish
0.09021654 Irish

Distance to: gixajo_mom_scaled
0.05728219 English_Cornwall
0.05885881 Welsh
0.05976522 English
0.06419585 Scottish
0.06695551 Irish

alnortedelsur

01-06-2023, 07:21 PM

Distance to: Eastern_scaled
0.18565698 Welsh
0.18662919 English
0.18746532 Scottish
0.18747643 English_Cornwall
0.18856104 Irish

Target: Eastern_scaled
Distance: 18.5657% / 0.18565698
100.0 Welsh

Don't have any European blood in me (apart from some minor Italian, maybe). West and Central Asian of origin. It guessed 100% welsh...any insight or is it a coincidence? Why welsh?

It seems that all Iberians and predominately Iberians like myself get English Cornwall as their closest population. Is interesting that a central Asian get Welsh as his/her closest British population. So, that's a good question. Some ancient indo-European element also present in Central Asians that peaks in Welsh, maybe? idk

Thanks for your input :)

alnortedelsur

01-06-2023, 07:29 PM

As suggested by user Gixajo, I'm adding Ocadian and Shetlandic as references, which I forgot to add...

English,0.1318551,0.137043,0.0617883,0.044013,0.03 92299,0.0167481,0.0049845,0.0057448,0.0052637,0.00 56781,-0.0047691,0.0056161,-0.0125892,-0.0103507,0.0206153,0.0035521,-0.0103689,0.004094,0.003685,0.0029619,0.0059369,0. 0034036,-0.0032693,0.0137938,3.16e-05
English_Cornwall,0.1301962,0.1397525,0.0613546,0.0 431826,0.0419013,0.0164115,0.0034346,0.0063902,0.0 064819,0.0069669,-0.0046342,0.0064788,-0.0137455,-0.0102476,0.0207548,0.003172,-0.012527,0.0021146,0.0037613,0.0032419,0.0048088,0 .0038712,-0.0007584,0.0143671,0.0006909
Irish,0.1333605,0.1340977,0.0611689,0.0488642,0.03 7788,0.0193517,0.0032928,0.0047129,0.0035683,0.002 9265,-0.0069712,0.0058395,-0.0141892,-0.0140763,0.0259353,0.0052146,-0.0111456,0.0018944,0.0005974,0.0017758,0.0051145, 0.0012787,0.0002929,0.0144074,0.0006607
Scottish,0.1314657,0.1342312,0.0622654,0.0470426,0 .039106,0.0172812,0.0035502,0.0051756,0.0035719,0. 0028246,-0.005614,0.0050473,-0.0116806,-0.0119731,0.023024,0.0031254,-0.0112549,0.0027736,0.0025499,0.0014516,0.0042246, 0.0033076,-0.0006559,0.0135561,-0.0007698
Welsh,0.1319779,0.1381628,0.0601319,0.0430236,0.04 05922,0.0166218,0.0033135,0.006392,0.0062789,0.004 3372,-0.0042302,0.0059122,-0.0129112,-0.0109754,0.0205954,0.005708,-0.0087032,0.0023564,0.003086,0.0020072,0.0049849,0 .0038518,-1.24e-05,0.0112243,0.0008083
Orcadian,0.1306689,0.1342528,0.0629793,0.04845,0.0 387149,0.0175423,0.001786,0.0039229,0.0050312,0.00 1786,-0.0068367,0.0048108,-0.0119078,-0.0108308,0.0223531,0.0030364,-0.0123864,0.0034712,0.0026774,0.0003001,0.0049539, 0.0022504,-0.0021567,0.0100374,-0.0005988
Shetlandic,0.1343113,0.133373,0.060842,0.0479117,0 .0404177,0.0194293,0.00423,0.0046923,0.003545,-0.0041307,-0.0039513,0.006744,-0.0115457,-0.0126153,0.021308,0.0026077,-0.0087357,0.001436,0.002975,-0.0024597,0.0032027,0.0026793,0.0062853,0.0187977, 0.0026743

My results with this update:

Target: Alnortedelsur_scaled
Distance: 10.5738% / 0.10573783
88.4 English_Cornwall
11.6 Orcadian

Distanceto: Alnortedelsur_scaled
0.10574812 English_Cornwall
0.10600902 Welsh
0.10632932 Orcadian
0.10677254 English
0.10745830 Scottish
0.11004213 Irish
0.11218624 Shetlandic

same coordinates on opening post, which I corrected.

Gallop

01-06-2023, 07:29 PM

Danjojo

01-06-2023, 07:38 PM

Target: Danjojo
Distance: 3.5048% / 0.03504756
67.8 Welsh
18.2 Orcadian
14.0 Shetlandic

Distance to: Danjojo
0.03523430 Welsh
0.03606818 Orcadian
0.03629603 English
0.03691897 Scottish
0.03770660 Shetlandic
0.03842402 English_Cornwall
0.04133903 Irish

alnortedelsur

01-06-2023, 07:42 PM

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 7.2580% / 0.07257980
74.0 Welsh
26.0 English_Cornwall

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 7.5640% / 0.07564036
100.0 Welsh

Distance to: Father_scaled
0.07564036 Welsh
0.07598910 English_Cornwall
0.07753611 English
0.08110209 Scottish
0.08390960 Irish

Distance to: Gallop_scaled
0.07260373 Welsh
0.07277272 English_Cornwall
0.07477139 English
0.07812947 Scottish
0.08060636 Irish

With Ocadian and Shetlandic it does not change.

Target: Danjojo
Distance: 3.5048% / 0.03504756
67.8 Welsh
18.2 Orcadian
14.0 Shetlandic

Distance to: Danjojo
0.03523430 Welsh
0.03606818 Orcadian
0.03629603 English
0.03691897 Scottish
0.03770660 Shetlandic
0.03842402 English_Cornwall
0.04133903 Irish

Try with Orcadian and Shetlander (updated references on post #7)

Beowulf

01-06-2023, 07:44 PM

my grandfather:

Distance to: JoseAsdrubal
0.05830152 English_Cornwall
0.05876035 Welsh
0.06083203 English
0.06527802 Scottish
0.06552443 Orcadian
0.06752329 Irish
0.07124988 Shetlandic

Target: JoseAsdrubal
Distance: 5.8302% / 0.05830152
100.0 English_Cornwall

i think makes sense that he gets English Cornwall because his english ancestry is from Southern england

vader

01-06-2023, 07:49 PM

I don't expect to be close...

Results

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 8.0932% / 0.08093170
100.0 English_Cornwall

Target: Luso_dad_scaled
Distance: 7.5431% / 0.07543083
100.0 English_Cornwall

Target: Luso_mom_scaled
Distance: 7.9144% / 0.07914404
100.0 English_Cornwall

distances

Distance to: Luso_scaled
0.08093170 English_Cornwall
0.08210948 Welsh
0.08321441 English
0.08615508 Orcadian
0.08648052 Scottish
0.08975915 Irish
0.09174069 Shetlandic

Distance to: Luso_dad_scaled
0.07543083 English_Cornwall
0.07585286 Welsh
0.07774160 English
0.08108086 Scottish
0.08141336 Orcadian
0.08360195 Irish
0.08603313 Shetlandic

Distance to: Luso_mom_scaled
0.07914404 English_Cornwall
0.08015316 Welsh
0.08138873 English
0.08409766 Orcadian
0.08463399 Scottish
0.08800356 Irish
0.08997936 Shetlandic

Beowulf

01-06-2023, 07:52 PM

Grandma usually gets some britih in calcs so here we go...

Distance to: CristinaMatas
0.06529000 Welsh
0.06529021 English_Cornwall
0.06747963 English
0.07188407 Scottish
0.07230640 Orcadian
0.07514616 Irish
0.07673438 Shetlandic

interesting that she is more close to welsh

Target: CristinaMatas
Distance: 6.5192% / 0.06519190
50.0 English_Cornwall
50.0 Welsh

alnortedelsur

01-06-2023, 07:54 PM

paradox

01-06-2023, 07:59 PM

Distanceto: paradox_scaled
0.09635282 Welsh
0.09805698 English
0.09835023 English_Cornwall
0.10092694 Scottish
0.10134284 Orcadian
0.10237558 Shetlandic
0.10405099 Irish

Target: paradox_scaled
Distance: 9.6353% / 0.09635282
100.0 Welsh
------------
Distanceto: Father_scaled
0.07526063 Welsh
0.07653019 English_Cornwall
0.07654313 English
0.07899591 Scottish
0.07901623 Orcadian
0.07974471 Shetlandic
0.08308399 Irish

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 7.5261% / 0.07526063
100.0 Welsh

alnortedelsur

01-06-2023, 08:04 PM

Distanceto: paradox_scaled
0.09635282 Welsh
0.09805698 English
0.09835023 English_Cornwall
0.10092694 Scottish
0.10405099 Irish

Target: paradox_scaled
Distance: 9.6353% / 0.09635282
100.0 Welsh
------------
Distanceto: Father_scaled
0.07526063 Welsh
0.07653019 English_Cornwall
0.07654313 English
0.07899591 Scottish
0.08308399 Irish

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 7.5261% / 0.07526063
100.0 Welsh

Distances?

rothaer

01-06-2023, 08:57 PM

Distanceto: rothaer_scaled
0.03780477 Orcadian
0.03803459 Welsh
0.03857013 Shetlandic
0.03871115 Scottish
0.03910549 English
0.04138905 English_Cornwall
0.04209760 Irish

Target: rothaer_scaled
Distance: 3.7128% / 0.03712763
38.6 Orcadian
33.6 Shetlandic
27.8 Welsh

Distanceto: rothaer_wife2_scaled
0.03583849 Shetlandic
0.03609513 Orcadian
0.03640781 Scottish
0.03806299 English
0.03815167 Welsh
0.03867054 Irish
0.04042619 English_Cornwall

Target: rothaer_wife2_scaled
Distance: 3.5001% / 0.03500114
53.4 Shetlandic
46.6 Orcadian

Coastal Elite

01-06-2023, 09:57 PM

Distance to: Daco_scaled
0.03947193 Welsh
0.04127285 English
0.04177863 English_Cornwall
0.04353190 Scottish
0.04443322 Shetlandic
0.04476295 Orcadian
0.04647509 Irish

Target: Daco_scaled
Distance: 3.9472% / 0.03947193
100.0 Welsh

Mom
Distance to: Mom_scaled
0.01359073 Shetlandic
0.01956128 Scottish
0.02021170 Irish
0.02055531 Orcadian
0.02085322 Welsh
0.02235155 English
0.02371083 English_Cornwall

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.3545% / 0.01354528
93.0 Shetlandic
4.0 Orcadian
3.0 Welsh

Gallop

01-06-2023, 10:47 PM

Try with Orcadian and Shetlander (updated references on post #7)

They do not change my results by adding them.

#8
Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 7.2580% / 0.07257980
74.0 Welsh
26.0 English_Cornwall

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 7.5640% / 0.07564036
100.0 Welsh

Distance to: Father_scaled
0.07564036 Welsh
0.07598910 English_Cornwall
0.07753611 English
0.08110209 Scottish
0.08390960 Irish

Distance to: Gallop_scaled
0.07260373 Welsh
0.07277272 English_Cornwall
0.07477139 English
0.07812947 Scottish
0.08060636 Irish

With Ocadian and Shetlandic it does not change.

oszkar07

01-06-2023, 11:33 PM

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 3.7174% / 0.03717392
58.2 English
41.8 Orcadian

Distance to: Oszkar
0.03740622 English
0.03762524 Orcadian
0.03817753 Welsh
0.03836644 English_Cornwall
0.03873659 Scottish
0.04277065 Shetlandic
0.04396593 Irish

Purple Panther

01-06-2023, 11:52 PM

It seems like Southern Europeans are much closer to Cornish and/or Welsh, and much farther from Irish and/or Scottish. Grace will feel vindicated. ;)

alnortedelsur

01-07-2023, 12:03 AM

It seems like Southern Europeans are much closer to Cornish and/or Welsh, and much farther from Irish and/or Scottish. Grace will feel vindicated. ;)

I should have titled the thread "Which modern British/Irish population are you closer to". I know Irish are their own thing, but I can't avoid perceiving all those populations (including Irish) as almost the same thing (racially speaking, regardless of British having some more Germanic input). I hope Grace won't get mad :p

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas

01-07-2023, 12:07 AM

Target: Viriato_scaled
Distance: 7.7774% / 0.07777378
100.0 English_Cornwall

Target: Wife_scaled
Distance: 7.8496% / 0.07849558
100.0 Welsh

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 7.1322% / 0.07132243
100.0 Welsh

alnortedelsur

01-07-2023, 12:10 AM

Purple Panther

01-07-2023, 12:11 AM

I should have titled the thread "Which modern British/Irish population are you closer to". I know Irish are their own thing, but I can't avoid looking at all those populations (including Irish) as almost the same thing (racially speaking, regardless of British having some more Germanic input). I hope Grace will not get mad at me :p

I'm sure that Grace won't get mad at you. My point is that it shows that Oppenheimer's "muh Irish are Basques" theory is heretical.

alnortedelsur

01-07-2023, 12:32 AM

I'm sure that Grace won't get mad at you. My point is that it shows that Oppenheimer's "muh Irish are Basques" theory is heretical.

I think some ancient population that spread from Iberia was widespread in British Isles (and probably other parts of Western Europe) in the far past (maybe some pre-indo European element that peaks in modern Iberians?), but it was very absorbed/diluted by different waves of more recent Indo-European migrations. South west England and Wales were relatively less exposed to those waves, including Celts, Anglo Saxons, Normans, Viking raids and what not, than the rest of Great Britain and Ireland, due to their particularly isolated location in westernmost corners of Britain, and not facing open sea (contrary to England, the rest of Scotland and Ireland). So, even though, at the end they got a lot of those north/central Euro contributions, that primary pre-Indo-European component (peaking in modern Iberians) wasn't as much absorbed/diluted in there as in the rest of British Isles and Ireland. That's in my humble opinion what would explain them being the closest to Iberians compared to the rest Britain/Ireland.

celticdragongod

01-07-2023, 12:33 AM

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.01700079 Scottish
0.01720422 Shetlandic
0.01810896 English_Cornwall
0.01849192 Irish
0.01901995 Welsh
0.01905219 English
0.01923543 Orcadian

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 1.4844% / 0.01484437
54.4 Shetlandic
45.6 English_Cornwall

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas

01-07-2023, 12:42 AM

Distances, please!

Distance to: Viriato_scaled
0.07777378 English_Cornwall
0.07836818 Welsh
0.08032785 English
0.08300776 Orcadian
0.08333271 Scottish
0.08607918 Irish
0.08798689 Shetlandic

Distance to: Wife_scaled
0.07849558 Welsh
0.07961247 English_Cornwall
0.08149548 English
0.08423908 Scottish
0.08448249 Orcadian
0.08614526 Irish
0.08986051 Shetlandic

Distance to: Father_scaled
0.07132243 Welsh
0.07215870 English_Cornwall
0.07374160 English
0.07673790 Scottish
0.07676662 Orcadian
0.07955827 Irish
0.08072931 Shetlandic

Damião de Góis

01-07-2023, 12:47 AM

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 7.0807% / 0.07080717
100.0 English_Cornwall

Distance to: Gil_Vicente
0.07080717 English_Cornwall
0.07159057 Welsh
0.07321661 English
0.07603541 Orcadian
0.07623241 Scottish
0.07917603 Irish
0.08157028 Shetlandic

HelloGuys

01-07-2023, 01:17 AM

alnortedelsur

01-07-2023, 01:26 AM

Target: HelloGuys_scaled
Distance: 25.5558% / 0.25555816
100.0 Orcadian

Distance to: HelloGuys_scaled
0.25555816 Orcadian
0.25732266 Scottish
0.25776806 Irish
0.25890969 Shetlandic
0.25947195 English
0.25964704 Welsh
0.26130117 English_Cornwall

Wow, unlike Spaniards, Portuguese or me (predominately Spanish) you get a very different order of closeness to British populations.

SouthDutch7991

01-07-2023, 03:48 AM

Target: SouthDutch7991_scaled
Distance: 1.65% / 0.01647729
100.0 Welsh

Distance to: SouthDutch7991_scaled
0.01647729 Welsh
0.01849434 English_Cornwall
0.01872883 English
0.02094741 Scottish
0.02188690 Orcadian
0.02495363 Irish
0.02670768 Shetlandic

That's as expected, I always come up closer to Welsh on G25 than anything else except maybe Dutch ( hence the name ). I suspect either the Welsh samples here are skewed towards continental-like Welsh, or Wales in general is way more continental-like.

Purple Panther

01-07-2023, 04:02 AM

I think some ancient population that spread from Iberia was widespread in British Isles (and probably other parts of Western Europe) in the far past (maybe some pre-indo European element that peaks in modern Iberians?), but it was very absorbed/diluted by different waves of more recent Indo-European migrations. South west England and Wales were relatively less exposed to those waves, including Celts, Anglo Saxons, Normans, Viking raids and what not, than the rest of Great Britain and Ireland, due to their particularly isolated location in westernmost corners of Britain, and not facing open sea (contrary to England, the rest of Scotland and Ireland). So, even though, at the end they got a lot of those north/central Euro contributions, that primary pre-Indo-European component (peaking in modern Iberians) wasn't as much absorbed/diluted in there as in the rest of British Isles and Ireland. That's in my humble opinion what would explain them being the closest to Iberians compared to the rest Britain/Ireland.

He judged the link just by the shared R1B. That's like judging a whole pizza by a piece of pepperoni.

Coastal Elite

01-07-2023, 04:07 AM

It seems like Southern Europeans are much closer to Cornish and/or Welsh, and much farther from Irish and/or Scottish. Grace will feel vindicated. ;)

"If it's not Shetlandic, it's crap." - Mike Myers

Purple Panther

01-07-2023, 04:16 AM

"If it's not Shetlandic, it's crap." - Mike Myers

Where are your Irish results, brother? I'm about ready to call you a Plastic Paddy. ;)

Coastal Elite

01-07-2023, 04:22 AM

Where are your Irish results, brother? I'm about ready to call you a Plastic Paddy. ;)

Who knows because this calculator makes my sweet Irish Catholic mom out to be a Scottish islander that was victimized by Vikings (Shetlander). I don't have the heart to tell her the results.

Purple Panther

01-07-2023, 04:37 AM

Who knows because this calculator makes my sweet Irish Catholic mom out to be a Scottish islander that was victimized by Vikings (Shetlander). I don't have the heart to tell her the results.

A Gael is a Gael. It's past time for the "Mac"s and the "Mc"s to unite with the micks and the Mikes.

Grace O'Malley

01-07-2023, 05:25 AM

Distance to: Grace_scaled
0.01848790 Irish
0.01963632 Scottish
0.01980300 Orcadian
0.02206228 English
0.02219810 Welsh
0.02454052 English_Cornwall
0.02493577 Shetlandic

Target: Grace_scaled
Distance: 1.8352% / 0.01835154
76.8 Irish
23.2 Orcadian

Grace O'Malley

01-07-2023, 05:58 AM

It seems like Southern Europeans are much closer to Cornish and/or Welsh, and much farther from Irish and/or Scottish. Grace will feel vindicated. ;)

It's only because I've looked at genetic distance tables and Gedmatch results etc over the years. That is how I knew Irish and Scots were more distant. It is also logical when you think about it. Places like English Cornwall are closer to the European continent. Also English Cornwall have a higher amount of European Farmer. Ireland is an island off of another island it is going to be more distant to other populations. There are some exceptions though which make it interesting but it could be due to things like ANE being higher etc.

If you look at just what countries are closer and sometimes it's not because of geographic distance I'm interested in why? If you look at Irish and Cornwall below why is Polish closer to the Irish even though Cornwall is less isolated than Ireland? That sort of thing is interesting to me.

https://i.imgur.com/f1UMGUB.png
https://i.imgur.com/w9pUhss.png
https://i.imgur.com/C3kYN2M.png
https://i.imgur.com/HRS6R4F.png

Purple Panther

01-07-2023, 06:08 AM

alnortedelsur

01-07-2023, 06:14 AM

He judged the link just by the shared R1B. That's like judging a whole pizza by a piece of pepperoni.

I don't want to be misunderstood. I don't defend Openhimer old theories or any special British/Irish-Iberian connection, and I know that R1b was brought to western Europe by Indo-European population movements. I'm just saying that there is a pre-Indo European substratum that gets higher the more west you go in Europe, which makes sense, since west Europe is like a last corner from the point of view of Indo-European waves coming from the east. And that pre-Indo European substratum peaks in Iberia (not talking about R1b, or anything of that sort, just saying) for being in the very west of Europe, and having been less affected by Celtic and other Indo-European waves compared to Britain and Ireland. But British and Irish, for their very western position in Europe, have more of that ancient substratum (peaking in SW England and Wales, but more diluted than in modern Iberians) than other northern Europeans.

Basque language would be the only linguistical remain of that ancient pre-Indo European substratum.

If not, then how you explain that Cornish and Welsh (in their more isolated position, without shores to open sea) are the closest Brits to Iberians?

Grace O'Malley

01-07-2023, 06:25 AM

^^^^Grace, I was talking about the alleged closeness to the Basques. Oppenheimer's faddish theory was one of your pet peeves, especially in the days when it was taken as gospel on the forums (a theory, like Jason Voorhees, that just won't die).

It is a pet peeve. :) It never made sense either because even when it came out you had the great Italian geneticist Luigi Cavalli-Sforza who had looked at a huge amount of populations and had genetic distance tables and Basques were very distant to Irish so it never made sense to me but if you're reading this in a newspaper or hearing it on TV you aren't going to know about genetic distance. When I first looked at this forum it was very much a thing when even then there was plenty of information to refute it. People also take offence if you state it isn't accurate which I don't understand. It's not personal and has nothing to do with not liking any population. I do not have any prejudices in that area. It has been interesting over the years. The biggest milestone to me was the 2015 study that came out which proved that R1b came from the Steppe.

alnortedelsur

01-07-2023, 06:29 AM

It's only because I've looked at genetic distance tables and Gedmatch results etc over the years. That is how I knew Irish and Scots were more distant. It is also logical when you think about it. Places like English Cornwall are closer to the European continent. Also English Cornwall have a higher amount of European Farmer. Ireland is an island off of another island it is going to be more distant to other populations. There are some exceptions though which make it interesting but it could be due to things like ANE being higher etc.

If you look at just what countries are closer and sometimes it's not because of geographic distance I'm interested in why? If you look at Irish and Cornwall below why is Polish closer to the Irish even though Cornwall is less isolated than Ireland? That sort of thing is interesting to me.

https://i.imgur.com/f1UMGUB.png
https://i.imgur.com/w9pUhss.png
https://i.imgur.com/C3kYN2M.png
https://i.imgur.com/HRS6R4F.png

As I said in another post (I think I was responding to Anglo-Celtic), actually Cornish peninsula and Wales are in a more isolated position compared to Ireland, since Cornualles and Wales are in the very west of Great Britain, not as far from continental Europe as Ireland, but are more sheltered from foreign invasions than Ireland for not having shores to open seas like the later.

Purple Panther

01-07-2023, 06:35 AM

It is a pet peeve. :) It never made sense either because even when it came out you had the great Italian geneticist Luigi Cavalli-Sforza who had looked at a huge amount of populations and had genetic distance tables and Basques were very distant to Irish so it never made sense to me but if you're reading this in a newspaper or hearing it on TV you aren't going to know about genetic distance. When I first looked at this forum it was very much a thing when even then there was plenty of information to refute it. People also take offence if you state it isn't accurate which I don't understand. It's not personal and has nothing to do with not liking any population. I do not have any prejudices in that area. It has been interesting over the years. The biggest milestone to me was the 2015 study that came out which proved that R1b came from the Steppe.

Along the same lines, maybe the mysterious Polish factor has to do with ancient roots in an eastern European refugium. It's just a spontaneous theory that likely makes more sense than Oppenheimer's (not the nuke guy) PC claims. Yep, I think that he stressed the political and the social more than the scientific. You would have an aneurism if you read the YouTube comments about the belief in his theory ("that's why Colin Farrell looks Spanish, bro'").

Grace O'Malley

01-07-2023, 06:52 AM

I don't want to be misunderstood. I don't defend Openhimer old theories or any special British/Irish-Iberian connection, and I know that R1b was brought to western Europe by Indo-European population movements. I'm just saying that there is a pre-Indo European substratum that gets higher the more west you go in Europe, which makes sense, since west Europe is like a last corner from the point of view of Indo-European waves coming from the east. And that pre-Indo European substratum peaks in Iberia (not talking about R1b, or anything of that sort, just saying) for being in the very west of Europe, and having been less affected by Celtic and other Indo-European waves compared to Britain and Ireland. But British and Irish, for their very western position in Europe, have more of that ancient substratum (peaking in SW England and Wales, but more diluted than in modern Iberians) than other northern Europeans.

Basque language would be the only linguistical remain of that ancient pre-Indo European substratum.

If not, then how you explain that Cornish and Welsh (in their more isolated position, without shores to open sea) are the closest Brits to Iberians?

It is due to higher levels of Farmer. Cornish and Welsh have a lot of Anglo-Saxon but they also have got some later genetic input from France. There are also Normans which is not something that is fully understood yet i.e. how much the Normans influenced Britain and Ireland genetically. If you look at the Cornish they are still closer to neighbouring populations. If you look at Belgians and South Dutch they will be closer to places in Spain but this is due to them having higher Farmer or being more southern shifted etc. I think the French are the epicentre. I don't think there was anything directly from Iberia. I also don't think Cornwall and Wales were more isolated. Wales is open to the Irish Sea and Cornwall is surrounded by sea. Look how close it is to the European mainland.

https://www.infoplease.com/sites/infoplease.com/files/inline-images/Europemap-2010.gif

Grace O'Malley

01-07-2023, 07:07 AM

Along the same lines, maybe the mysterious Polish factor has to do with ancient roots in an eastern European refugium. It's just a spontaneous theory that likely makes more sense than Oppenheimer's (not the nuke guy) PC claims. Yep, I think that he stressed the political and the social more than the scientific. You would have an aneurism if you read the YouTube comments about the belief in his theory ("that's why Colin Farrell looks Spanish, bro'").

I think it is because the Irish have a little higher ANE. The reasons for this is that they have retained more Bell Beaker ancestry. There has always been some mixture from Britain though which filters through the whole population over time. It is why Ireland doesn't form a cluster on her own. This is a new plot that came out with a Scandinavian study. Some of the more isolated places are Donegal which makes perfect sense in that they are the far northwestern county in Ireland.

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0092867422014684-gr2_lrg.jpg

alnortedelsur

01-07-2023, 07:16 AM

It is due to higher levels of Farmer. Cornish and Welsh have a lot of Anglo-Saxon but they also have got some later genetic input from France. There are also Normans which is not something that is fully understood yet i.e. how much the Normans influenced Britain and Ireland genetically. If you look at the Cornish they are still closer to neighbouring populations. If you look at Belgians and South Dutch they will be closer to places in Spain but this is due to them having higher Farmer or being more southern shifted etc. I think the French are the epicentre. I don't think there was anything directly from Iberia. I also don't think Cornwall and Wales were more isolated. Wales is open to the Irish Sea and Cornwall is surrounded by sea. Look how close it is to the European mainland.

https://www.infoplease.com/sites/infoplease.com/files/inline-images/Europemap-2010.gif

OK, I was wrong. Cornwall is surrounded by sea, but to the open sea to the west, and with its back to the east, and from the Strait of Calais. Ireland is further surrounded by open sea in all directions than Cornwall and Wales.

That Farmer you talk about could be the ancient pre-Indo European component I talk about. Maybe it doesn't peak in Iberia, but in France as you say, but my point of an ancient pre-Indo European component (ie Farmer) being higher the more west you go in Europe still stands. Basque language could be the last linguistic remain of that EEF substratum.

Grace O'Malley

01-07-2023, 07:31 AM

OK, I was wrong. Cornwall is surrounded by sea, but to the open sea to the west, and with its back to the east, and from the Strait of Calais. Ireland is further surrounded by open sea in all directions than Cornwall and Wales.

That Farmer you talk about could be the ancient pre-Indo European component I talk about. Maybe it doesn't peak in Iberia, but in France as you say, but my point of an ancient pre-Indo European component (ie Farmer) being higher the more west you go in Europe still stands. Basque language could be the last linguistic remain of that EEF substratum.

I just know from the Irish that Irish Farmer was virtually non-existent or so small when Bell Beaker came. Something caused a dramatic crash in the farmers that were there. It is why Irish today are closer to Globular Amphora than Ballynahatty. Most of the Farmer genes in the Irish are most likely from Bell Beaker and not the local Irish farmer population.

Kiel

01-07-2023, 08:10 AM

Grace O'Malley

01-07-2023, 08:23 AM

Welsh all the way! Could someone explain why?

Distance to: Kiel_scaled
0.03316658 Welsh
0.03490439 English
0.03564107 English_Cornwall
0.03696320 Orcadian
0.03726191 Scottish
0.04105767 Shetlandic
0.04174220 Irish

Target: Kiel_scaled
Distance: 3.3167% / 0.03316658
100.0 Welsh

I'm really not sure. :) It could just be an individual thing. You would need lots of results to make any kind of hypothesis. In the end I would rely more on scientific studies who use a lot of samples. G25 is a great tool but some population samples aren't large. Gedmatch and G25 are great as anyone can use them and they are generally accurate but I wouldn't rely solely on results of G25 or Gedmatch calcs.

oszkar07

01-07-2023, 11:07 AM

Kiel

01-07-2023, 11:45 AM

What I find interesting is your distance is similiar to me and Daco and we are
genetically 50% from that region.

Hmm, thats interesting. Why do you think I get similar or even better distances than you two?
Also why Welsh?

oszkar07

01-07-2023, 11:55 AM

Hmm, thats interesting. Why do you think I get similar or even better distances than you two?
Also why Welsh?

Not totally sure.
I guess its your Germanic ancestry, maybe you have celtic/celto germanic genes that can model you close ish to anglo saxon /celts.

Daco being half Romanian I imagine gives quite a southern pull to his modelling.
Maybe I inherited genes that generally shift me a bit closer to my Hungarian side or model me more continental European than British. However seems to depend on samples I have had some results with closer distances to Britain and have found samples that correctly model me 50% Brit and 50% Hun.

cakmir7y

01-07-2023, 03:43 PM

It's an academic exercise for me but here we go anyway

Target: cakmir7y_scaled
Distance: 4.8352% / 0.04835180
62.0 Welsh
30.2 Shetlandic
7.8 Orcadian

Distance to: cakmir7y_scaled
0.04866015 Welsh
0.04930630 Orcadian
0.04969972 Shetlandic
0.05039222 Scottish
0.05041711 English
0.05270807 English_Cornwall
0.05368877 Irish

noricum

01-07-2023, 08:23 PM

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 4.7051% / 0.04705138 | ADC: 0.25x RC
56.6 Welsh
31.6 Orcadian
11.8 Shetlandic

Distance to: G25noricum_scaled
0.04727742 Welsh
0.04758739 Orcadian
0.04816387 English
0.04851473 English_Cornwall
0.04900449 Scottish
0.04909021 Shetlandic
0.05359449 Irish

HelloGuys

01-07-2023, 09:06 PM

Wow, unlike Spaniards, Portuguese or me (predominately Spanish) you get a very different order of closeness to British populations.

Well, from what I read, it seems I am closest to Orkney in all of Britain due to ANE:

"The paper says Norwegian DNA has contributed to about 25% of Orcadian DNA"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-31946436.amp

I am 1/3 amerindian so that would explain it.

That's the reason you are scoring a few percentage of Orcadian in your results too.

de Burgh II

01-07-2023, 10:13 PM

Distanceto:
0.00576461 Welsh
0.00706064 English
0.00757185 Scottish
0.00827254 Orcadian
0.01016112 English_Cornwall
0.01172983 Irish
0.01679865 Shetlandic

Target:
Distance: 0.4177% / 0.00417717
60.6 Welsh
34.4 Orcadian
5.0 English

Boudin

01-08-2023, 04:44 PM

Welsh?

Target: Cajun:Boudin
Distance: 5.0516% / 0.05051643
100.0 Welsh

Distance to: Cajun:Boudin
0.05051643 Welsh
0.05263242 English
0.05333880 English_Cornwall
0.05611530 Scottish
0.05733140 Irish
0.05776111 Orcadian
0.05830206 Shetlandic

Nurzat

01-08-2023, 08:21 PM

Distance to: Nurzat
0.06058502 Welsh
0.06194565 English
0.06272045 Orcadian
0.06289830 Scottish
0.06348714 English_Cornwall
0.06360140 Shetlandic
0.06694548 Irish

PT Tagus

01-08-2023, 09:06 PM

Target: Endovelicus_scaled
Distance: 8.4979% / 0.08497928
100.0 English_Cornwall

Distanceto: Endovelicus_scaled
0.08497928 English_Cornwall
0.08599698 Welsh
0.08723622 English
0.09060257 Scottish
0.09062549 Orcadian
0.09381793 Irish
0.09647706 Shetlandic

Eurafricanid

01-08-2023, 09:11 PM

Target: Jgab602_scaled
Distance: 37.5107% / 0.37510679
100.0 English_Cornwall

Figaro

02-21-2023, 07:14 PM

Keeping in mind that of my two parents, only my father has any actual Isles ancestry (some Irish)

Distance to: CordedFATHER_scaled
0.02583100 Welsh
0.02604052 English
0.02678606 English_Cornwall
0.02727310 Orcadian
0.02730109 Scottish
0.02829130 Shetlandic
0.03125738 Irish

Target: CordedFATHER_scaled
Distance: 2.5319% / 0.02531946
37.0 Welsh
36.6 English
26.4 Shetlandic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Distance to: CordedMOTHER_scaled
0.04680286 Welsh
0.04687175 Orcadian
0.04727080 Scottish
0.04729049 English
0.04753124 Shetlandic
0.04931117 English_Cornwall
0.05147693 Irish

Target: CordedMOTHER_scaled
Distance: 4.6255% / 0.04625478
38.8 Welsh
30.6 Orcadian
30.6 Shetlandic