Compare "real" G25 coordinates to Simulated-G25 results with K36

[vader]

Go here to simulate your G25 results-- https://www.exploreyourdna.com/simulated-g25.aspx

[vader]

My results...

....



My modern distance comparisons:


https://i.imgur.com/COi3qeW.png

vs

https://i.imgur.com/rWSpWK0.png


My ancient results comparisons:


https://i.imgur.com/GUWB242.png

vs

https://i.imgur.com/4MA8JsX.png

[vader]

bump

[Beowulf]

real:
Target: ivorixG25
Distance: 1.4751% / 0.01475110 | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.6 Iberian_Penninsula
20.4 Germanic_People_of_CentralEurope
13.6 Great_Britain_Ireland
5.0 West_North_Africa
3.2 Arabia
0.2 Yemenite_Jew

simulated:

Target: Ivorix36_sim
Distance: 0.2667% / 0.00266741 | ADC: 0.25x RC
83.8 Iberian_Penninsula
10.8 Germanic_People_of_CentralEurope
3.6 France
0.8 Pakistan_Northern_India
0.6 Volga_Ural
0.4 Oceania_Melanesia




simulated is more noisy

[Jingle Bell]

Target: result
Distance: 2.4561% / 0.02456133
44.6 COG_Kindoki_230BP
29.6 TUR_Barcin_N
9.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.6 WHG
5.2 MAR_Taforalt
2.0 Levant_PPNB
1.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
1.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.4 BalticDrift
0.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 3.2471% / 0.03247116
44.8 COG_Kindoki_230BP
29.0 TUR_Barcin_N
12.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.6 WHG
4.2 MAR_Taforalt
2.2 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Simulated make me much more S. Shifted

[Jingle Bell]

Target: result
Distance: 0.9722% / 0.00972167
27.4 SSA:Nigeria:Yoruba
22.0 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:Portugal4
8.0 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:EBC_Portugal11
8.0 SSA:Ethiopian_Eritrea:Eritrean
7.2 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:Portugal9
6.8 SSA:West_African:Lemande
4.2 Sephardic_Jewish:Sephardic_Jew:sephardic14bul
4.0 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:Portugal1
3.8 SSA:Central_Africa:Kongo
2.8 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:EBC_Portugal9
2.2 SSA:East_African_Niger-Congo:Luhya_Kenya
1.6 Native_American:Amazonian:Bolivian_LaPaz
1.4 SSA:Nigeria:Igbo
0.4 SSA:West_Africa:Fulani
0.2 SSA:West_African_Niger-Congo:Igbo


Target: JingleBell_scaled
Distance: 1.5324% / 0.01532444
37.2 SSA:Nigeria:Yoruba
12.0 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:Portugal9
8.6 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:EBC_Portugal11
8.4 Sephardic_Jewish:Sephardic_Jew_o:SephardicJew24392
8.0 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:Portugal3
5.6 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:Portugal14
5.4 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:EBC_Portugal6
5.4 SSA:South_Africa:Ronga
2.6 Iberian_Penninsula:Portuguese:EBC_Portugal7
2.6 SSA:Ethiopian_Eritrea:Eritrean
2.2 Native_American:Amazonian:Bolivian_LaPaz
0.8 SSA:South_Africa:Ju_hoan_North
0.6 SSA:Central_African_Hunter-Gatherers:Mbuti
0.4 Native_American:South_Amerindian:Karitiana
0.2 Sephardic_Jewish:Sephardic_Jew:sephardic16bul

[Eurafricanid]

Target: Jgab602_scaled
Distance: 1.9677% / 0.01967671
43.8 Yoruba
20.0 TUR_Barcin_N
13.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
6.2 WHG
3.6 ETH_4500BP
2.4 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP


Target: simulacra
Distance: 2.1858% / 0.02185849
40.0 Yoruba
30.4 TUR_Barcin_N
14.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.0 ETH_4500BP
5.0 WHG
2.0 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
1.4 MAR_Taforalt



Target: Jgab602_scaled
Distance: 1.1082% / 0.01108206 | R7P
30.0 Basque_French
24.0 Igbo
22.8 Cameroon_Mbo
16.0 Italian_Lazio
3.7 Armenian_Van
2.9 Surui
0.6 Berber_Algeria


Target: simulacra
Distance: 0.3838% / 0.00383768 | R7P
28.2 Esan_Nigeria
26.4 Spanish_Aragon
17.0 Bantu_S.E.
17.0 Spanish_Gran_Canaria
5.6 Sardinian
3.1 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
2.7 Bolivian_LaPaz

The simulated seems to be more south-shifted.

[Boudin]

Real
Distance: 2.5143% / 0.02514338 | ADC: 0.5x RC
64.6 Swiss_French
20.6 Spanish_Soria
12.2 Finnish_Southeast
2.6 Greenlander_West

Simulated
Distance: 0.6567% / 0.00656682 | ADC: 0.5x RC
45.0 French_Auvergne
39.8 French_Alsace
14.0 Romanian
1.2 Cree

Real
0.03301362 Swiss_French
0.03633135 French_Paris
0.03633834 Swiss_German
0.03635078 French_Pas-de-Calais

Simulated
0.01395629 French_Alsace
0.01488955 Swiss_German
0.01625469 French_Nord
0.01706125 French_Auvergne

[Grace O'Malley]

Distance to: Grace_scaled
0.01848790 Irish
0.01914452 Icelandic
0.01963632 Scottish
0.01980300 Orcadian
0.02018258 Danish
0.02022725 Norwegian
0.02206228 English
0.02219810 Welsh
0.02416060 Dutch
0.02454052 English_Cornwall
0.02493577 Shetlandic
0.02758167 French_Brittany
0.02919872 Swedish
0.03333011 German
0.03363452 German_Hamburg
0.03551185 BelgianA
0.03777837 Afrikaner
0.04000956 German_Erlangen
0.04111373 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04121539 BelgianB
0.04124589 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04377645 German_East
0.04383614 French_Nord
0.04598379 BelgianC
0.04754192 Austrian


Distance to: Grace_simulated_g25_scaled
0.00852826 Scottish
0.00884850 Danish
0.00959757 Irish
0.01013008 Orcadian
0.01123202 Dutch
0.01155138 Welsh
0.01163783 English
0.01215277 Norwegian
0.01252189 Icelandic
0.01395340 Shetlandic
0.01425462 English_Cornwall
0.01873759 French_Brittany
0.02286336 German_Hamburg
0.02293213 German
0.02365227 Swedish
0.02619522 BelgianA
0.02654892 Afrikaner
0.02997226 German_Erlangen
0.03283870 BelgianB
0.03418253 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03458248 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03559535 German_East
0.03573664 French_Nord
0.03811979 BelgianC
0.03828695 Austrian

Target: Grace_scaled
Distance: 1.6871% / 0.01687059
47.8 Irish
42.0 Icelandic
8.8 Danish
1.0 Andian_B
0.4 Basque_Gipuzkoa


Target: Grace_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 0.2785% / 0.00278475
46.0 Danish
39.6 Irish
6.6 Icelandic
3.4 English_Cornwall
1.4 French_Pas-de-Calais
1.4 Georgian_West
0.8 Lithuanian_PZ
0.8 Welsh

Target: Grace_scaled
Distance: 4.8384% / 0.04838423
50.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
34.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
15.4 WHG


Target: Grace_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 4.5799% / 0.04579907
49.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
35.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
14.4 WHG

Not a great deal of difference in the ancient model but with modern populations simulated shifts me a tad east.

The G25 coords I got from Illustrative dna using My Heritage upload. They are very similar to the result I got from David. I used 23&Me for the ones I got from David.

Distance to: GraceIllustrative_scaled
0.01856143 Irish
0.01914011 Icelandic
0.01979426 Scottish
0.02010638 Orcadian
0.02029140 Danish
0.02056619 Norwegian
0.02221375 Welsh
0.02226210 English
0.02430771 Dutch
0.02441236 English_Cornwall
0.02447324 Shetlandic
0.02741010 French_Brittany
0.02911235 Swedish
0.03313541 German
0.03330284 German_Hamburg
0.03503610 BelgianA
0.03775834 Afrikaner
0.03969780 German_Erlangen
0.04095689 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04137842 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04139323 BelgianB
0.04330037 German_East
0.04385230 French_Nord
0.04590660 BelgianC
0.04719300 Austrian

Target: GraceIllustrative_scaled
Distance: 1.6819% / 0.01681886
50.0 Irish
46.0 Icelandic
1.8 Lithuanian_PZ
1.2 Georgian_West
1.0 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest

Target: GraceIllustrative_scaled
Distance: 4.8921% / 0.04892117
50.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
34.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
15.4 WHG

I'd recommend the Illustrative DNA G25 coordinates if anyone hasn't got them from David.

[Pedro Ruben]

Target: Pedro_sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 2.7634% / 0.02763358
50.4 TUR_Barcin_N
30.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.4 WHG
5.4 Taforalt
2.0 Dinka

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 3.9138% / 0.03913813
47.6 TUR_Barcin_N
31.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.8 WHG
6.0 Taforalt
2.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
1.6 Dinka
0.6 Yoruba

[Lemminkäinen]

Unsupervised (?) Admixture analysis overweights Finnish proportion, which is typical for Markov chain or similar calculations. The error is not caused by the simulation.

Target: sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.1339% / 0.01133885 | ADC: 1x RC
32.6 Finnish_Central
24.2 Estonian
22.0 Ingrian
21.2 Finnish_Southeast

Target: MauriJussi1m_scaled
Distance: 1.3766% / 0.01376590 | ADC: 1x RC
55.2 Ingrian
25.2 Swedish
19.6 Finnish_Southwest

Target: sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.0519% / 0.01051894 | ADC: 0.5x RC
31.8 Finnish_Southeast
25.6 Ingrian
22.2 Finnish_Southwest
18.0 Estonian
1.2 Finnish_Central
1.2 Swedish

Target: MauriJussi1m_scaled
Distance: 1.2509% / 0.01250924 | ADC: 0.5x RC
36.8 Finnish_Central
22.4 Swedish
20.8 Russian_Tver
10.8 Ingrian
9.2 Finnish_Southwest

Target: sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.0189% / 0.01018895 | ADC: 0.25x RC
33.4 Finnish_Southeast
23.2 Finnish_Southwest
20.4 Ingrian
13.2 Latvian
7.2 Finnish_Central
2.6 Swedish

Target: MauriJussi1m_scaled
Distance: 0.8252% / 0.00825213 | ADC: 0.25x RC
41.8 Finnish_Central
21.6 Lithuanian_VZ
21.4 Shetlandic
7.6 Ingrian
5.8 Russian_Yaroslavl
1.4 Murut
0.4 Maori

[Mingle]

My regular G25 coordinates were always very bad giving me huge distances to my own ethnicity (and I'm not the only one with this issue). This is a much needed tool that really improved my coordinates on G25. Can't believe I paid for G25 three times for each raw data file.

Distance to: Mingle_raw_data
0.03150615 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
0.03411736 Kalash
0.03544066 Pashtun_Tarkalani
0.03575387 Pashtun_Yusufzai
0.03970679 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.04094886 Pashtun_Kurram_o
0.04267163 Kamboj
0.04577366 Balochi_B
0.04729382 Kho_Singanali
0.05003843 Arora
0.05207452 Ror
0.05405719 Khatri
0.05414879 Jat_Uttar_Pradesh
0.05465078 Jat_Haryana
0.05492211 Brahui
0.05558596 Jat_Punjab_Sikh
0.05571883 Jat_Punjab_Muslim
0.05674197 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.05717209 Arain
0.05847219 Kohistani
0.06005915 Tajik_Wakhi
0.06114986 Tajik_Badakhshan
0.06167490 Punjabi_Sikh_India
0.06208694 Balochi_A
0.06227557 Sindhi



Distance to: Mingle_K36_simulated
0.01711584 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
0.01801670 Pashtun_Tarkalani
0.02197727 Pashtun_Yusufzai
0.02646254 Kalash
0.03005094 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.03304623 Pashtun_Kurram_o
0.03510766 Kamboj
0.03918735 Balochi_B
0.03987141 Kho_Singanali
0.04428746 Arora
0.04604669 Brahui
0.04630223 Khatri
0.04707374 Ror
0.04863873 Jat_Uttar_Pradesh
0.04959366 Jat_Haryana
0.04990579 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.05056736 Jat_Punjab_Muslim
0.05096571 Jat_Punjab_Sikh
0.05291895 Kohistani
0.05297213 Arain
0.05362546 Balochi_A
0.05458751 Tajik_Wakhi
0.05574226 Sindhi
0.05711040 Tajik_Badakhshan
0.05724876 Punjabi_Sikh_India

[Jana]

My regular G25 coordinates were always very bad giving me huge distances to my own ethnicity (and I'm not the only one with this issue). This is a much needed tool that really improved my coordinates on G25. Can't believe I paid for G25 three times for each raw data file.

Distance to: Mingle_raw_data
0.03150615 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
0.03411736 Kalash
0.03544066 Pashtun_Tarkalani
0.03575387 Pashtun_Yusufzai
0.03970679 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.04094886 Pashtun_Kurram_o
0.04267163 Kamboj
0.04577366 Balochi_B
0.04729382 Kho_Singanali
0.05003843 Arora
0.05207452 Ror
0.05405719 Khatri
0.05414879 Jat_Uttar_Pradesh
0.05465078 Jat_Haryana
0.05492211 Brahui
0.05558596 Jat_Punjab_Sikh
0.05571883 Jat_Punjab_Muslim
0.05674197 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.05717209 Arain
0.05847219 Kohistani
0.06005915 Tajik_Wakhi
0.06114986 Tajik_Badakhshan
0.06167490 Punjabi_Sikh_India
0.06208694 Balochi_A
0.06227557 Sindhi



Distance to: Mingle_K36_simulated
0.01711584 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
0.01801670 Pashtun_Tarkalani
0.02197727 Pashtun_Yusufzai
0.02646254 Kalash
0.03005094 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.03304623 Pashtun_Kurram_o
0.03510766 Kamboj
0.03918735 Balochi_B
0.03987141 Kho_Singanali
0.04428746 Arora
0.04604669 Brahui
0.04630223 Khatri
0.04707374 Ror
0.04863873 Jat_Uttar_Pradesh
0.04959366 Jat_Haryana
0.04990579 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.05056736 Jat_Punjab_Muslim
0.05096571 Jat_Punjab_Sikh
0.05291895 Kohistani
0.05297213 Arain
0.05362546 Balochi_A
0.05458751 Tajik_Wakhi
0.05574226 Sindhi
0.05711040 Tajik_Badakhshan
0.05724876 Punjabi_Sikh_India

Simulated coords are much less accurate.

You get high distances because that's the reality and you likely have some drift. Just because you have low distances with sim coords doesn't mean they are better.

They aren't. They are worse and far less accurate.

Entire G25 setup is made with real coords including all the source data. Which is why simulated coords will never come close. And low distances they give to everyone are pseudo and incorrect.

[Mingle]

Simulated coords are much less accurate.

You get high distances because that's the reality and you likely have some drift. Just because you have low distances with sim coords doesn't mean they are better.

They aren't. They are worse and far less accurate.

Entire G25 setup is made with real coords including all the source data. Which is why simulated coords will never come close. And low distances they give to everyone are pseudo and incorrect.
It doesn't make sense for me to score closer to Kalashas than to most samples from my own ethnicity. Kalashas have their own separate profile and are more isolated & drifted from me. On every GEDmatch calc, I'm closer to other Pashtuns than to Kalashas for a reason.

And it doesn't make sense for me to be get such a high distance to my own people when you have Northern European users scoring much closer to Bell Beaker samples. Am I really more drifted from modern samples than N. Euro users are from ancient samples?

A distance above 0.3 for your closest population is just too much. I think G25 could be better than K36 simulated coordinates for most people, but it messes up for a few people on an individual level. G25 itself isn't perfect and is a PCA based model, that's why people are trying to use qpAdm more.

[vader]

Simulated coords are much less accurate.

You get high distances because that's the reality and you likely have some drift. Just because you have low distances with sim coords doesn't mean they are better.

They aren't. They are worse and far less accurate.

Entire G25 setup is made with real coords including all the source data. Which is why simulated coords will never come close. And low distances they give to everyone are pseudo and incorrect.

for me they seem to be even better. I get better distances all around.