@rothaer

[Aldaris]

We got way off-topic in the other thread.



That could be, although I must say that the observations I made do refer to Germany-internal things like descendants of expellees from Pomerania and East Prussia in Western Germany finding together f. i.

You're not wrong per-se by assuming that. Same goes for Spain and many other countries.


I'm not aware of cultural differences to the fully indigenous to Western Germany individuals.


Ok, let's go by this. Yet the next thing you say is this:


But there could be some details having an effect, like essentially only the indigenous population is land-owning and that could end up in somewhat separated social circles when one group is dealing with the topics of hunting, farming and foresting, and thus meeting at an event/party in that context, and the other not.


Isn't that a contradiction? Feel free to explain. Either there is a difference or there is not. This is not supposed to be fuzzy.

[rothaer]

(...)
Isn't that a contradiction? Feel free to explain. Either there is a difference or there is not. This is not supposed to be fuzzy.

Well, first I state that I'm not aware of cultural differences in my example.

Then I take a closer look and say but there could be some details having an effect. Such differences must not necessarly be cultural ones.

What I refer to in my example is that the German expellees (from Germany east of the Oder river and the Sudetenland etc.) lost all their real estates in the east and when they came to Western Germany they were regularly not among the land owners, except for buying a real estate for a one-family house maybe. Owning land is something that accumulates over generations. Now, participating in a meeting as for hunting and foresting is more far fetched for someone that does not own land. The expensive hunting rights are connected to land owning. You (alone or with your buddies) need 65 togetherhanging hectares in Germany for being allowed to carry out a hunt.

[Aldaris]

Well, first I state that I'm not aware of cultural differences in my example.

Then I take a closer look and say but there could be some details having an effect. Such differences must not necessarly be cultural ones.

And of what kind of 'details' then, other than the cultural ones? How do you define culture?

I may or may not make a full reply, but this is enough for now, as for making a general point. Not a Germany history buff, sorry. But you don't confirm a rule with one example.

[rothaer]

And of what kind of 'details' then, other than the cultural ones? How do you define culture?

I may or may not make a full reply, but this is enough for now, as for making a general point. Not a Germany history buff, sorry. But you don't confirm a rule with one example.

I'm far from considering myself to prove anything. View it as a hypothesis just.

What "detail" do I refer to? I refer to the "detail" that the German expellees due to their mentioned background are no landowners (anymore). Would you consider that condition a cultural one?

[Aldaris]

I'm far from considering myself to prove anything. View it as a hypothesis just.

What "detail" do I refer to? I refer to the "detail" that the German expellees due to their mentioned background are no landowners (anymore). Would you consider that condition a cultural one?

I would, especially considering that


But there could be some details having an effect, like essentially only the indigenous population is land-owning and that could end up in somewhat separated social circles when one group is dealing with the topics of hunting, farming and foresting, and thus meeting at an event/party in that context, and the other not,


but somebody else might tell you otherwise. Culture is a very wide term which encompasses a lot of things. When two groups are differentiated by their habits and their social circles, I wouldn't say there is absolutely no difference. Depends on the definition and how far you are willing to go with it. Trying to think about a proper analogy.. Moravians are of the same ethnicity as Bohemians, but that doesn't mean they have to be (or are) completely identical in everything, including culture. I certainly consider the term 'German culture' to be consistent, but it doesn't mean all Germans are the same or in other words there are no cultural differences between the regions. That's a very strong statement.

[rothaer]

I would, especially considering that




but somebody else might tell you otherwise. Culture is a very wide term which encompasses a lot of things. When two groups are differentiated by their habits and their social circles, I wouldn't say there is absolutely no difference. Depends on the definition and how far you are willing to go with it. Trying to think about a proper analogy. Moravians are of the same ethnicity as Bohemians, but that doesn't mean they have to be (or are) completely identical in everything, including culture. I certainly consider the term 'German culture' to be consistent, but it doesn't mean all Germans are the same or in other words there are no cultural differences between the regions. That's a very strong statement.

There are notable cultural differences within Germany. I just spoke of a particular case where I saw no difference in culture and that are the Pomeranian and East Prussian expellees and their descendants in Northwest Germany (Schleswig-Holstein and Lower Saxony) on one hand and the indigenous population there on the other hand. But if you count the condition to be land owning or not and the consequences of that to "culture" then there are cultural differences.

[Aldaris]

There are notable cultural differences within Germany. I just spoke of a particular case where I saw no difference in culture and that are the Pomeranian and East Prussian expellees and their descendants in Northwest Germany (Schleswig-Holstein and Lower Saxony) on one hand and the indigenous population there on the other hand. But if you count the condition to be land owning or not and the consequences of that to "culture" then there are cultural differences.

As I said I do, to a certain degree. Especially because of the said consequences. But again, if you'd ask someone else, you might aswell get a different answer, because the term 'culture' is kinda vague in the first place. Sociology isn't math or law.

[rothaer]

(...)

I don't find the - likely anyhow off-topic - place where we spoke about the state of the former German areas with expelled population within Czechia.

I recall that it ended with a comment of yours where you claimed to have mentioned the bigger districts - which I had denied before. But I then looked up the preceding comments in the discussion and you were right and I didn't comment anything more. However, the main topic, i. e. how these areas do exhibit now in a comparison remained disputed. In particular because the big administrational areas in Czechia are not congruent with the former borders that question could not be enlightened with the provided statistical maps.

I now by chance encountered a number of articles that state what I claimed regarding those territories. I don't want to start a new dispute but just share what I found. I restrict it to the site with the likely highest authority:

https://geo-unce.natur.cuni.cz/en/phantom-border-of-sudetenland/