Phenotypes of south-eastern France

[Beraud]

A collection of natives from the village of my great grandmother in the mountains of the Ardèche department, near Le Cheylard. This mountainous region known has the Boutières is set on the eastern part of the wider Massif Central, and is culturally and linguistically part of the Occitan area.
It is and has always been a very remote region with harsh living conditions. Its natives were feared and reputed for their toughness, refusal of authority and for "never leaving their mountains". The region became almost wholly protestant in the 16th and 17th centuries.
Anyway here are the photos :
118794 118795
118796 118797
118798 118799
118800 118801
118802 118803
118804 118805
118806 118807
118808

[Beraud]

118809 118810
118811 118812
118813 118814
118815 118816
118817 118818
118819 118820
118821 118822
118823

[Beraud]

118824 118825
118826 118827
118828 118829
118830 118831
118832 118833
118834 118835
118836 118837
118838

[Beraud]

118839 118840
118841 118842
118843 118844
118845 118846
118847 118848
118849 118850
118851 118852
118853

[Beraud]

118854 118855
118856 118857
118858 118859
118860 118861
118862 118863
118864 118865
118866 118867
118868

[Beraud]

118869 118870
118871 118872
118873 118874
118875 118876
118877 118878
118879 118880
118881 118882
118883


That's it for now, I may add some later idk

[Boudin]

Thanks for posting. Average of 28:

https://i.imgur.com/fZsMjL8.jpg

[Odelia]

Sorry hun it's pretty hard to classify unclear B/W photos....Most people looked the same in such photos from over a hundred years ago....Try modern pics?

[aherne]

Modern phenotypes in the region:

https://cdn-s-www.ledauphine.com/images/C4312EF0-08B3-4BE1-9478-0D86A093711A/NW_detail/a-valence-on-comptabilise-entre-10-000-et-20-000-manifestants-pour-dire-non-a-la-reforme-des-retraites-photo-le-dl-f-a-1678201353.jpg
https://cdn-s-www.ledauphine.com/images/B2D91848-D76B-4406-8FDC-B951A085EF17/NW_detail/a-valence-on-comptabilise-entre-10-000-et-20-000-manifestants-pour-dire-non-a-la-reforme-des-retraites-photo-le-dl-f-a-1678201353.jpg
https://cdn-s-www.ledauphine.com/images/C4724A40-BD14-49C2-A7D9-6DC89006CAC8/NW_detail/a-valence-on-comptabilise-entre-10-000-et-20-000-manifestants-pour-dire-non-a-la-reforme-des-retraites-photo-le-dl-f-a-1678201353.jpg
https://cdn-s-www.ledauphine.com/images/73EB96F0-16DD-4BDB-B844-607406A0AD1B/NW_detail/a-valence-on-comptabilise-entre-10-000-et-20-000-manifestants-pour-dire-non-a-la-reforme-des-retraites-photo-le-dl-f-a-1678201353.jpg

[Flashball]

Modern phenotypes in the region:


We don't know if they are native, dude...

Old pictures are better, now classify.

[Beraud]

Thanks for posting. Average of 28:

https://i.imgur.com/fZsMjL8.jpg

Thanks, this is basically my phenotype.

[Beraud]

Any classifications people ?

[aherne]

We don't know if they are native, dude...

Old pictures are better, now classify.

Most people in these photos are indigenous, the usual blend of Mediterranean and Keltic elements. Phenotypes have changed a lot: faces have become longer and narrower, Alpine component is today no longer the dominant component.

[Oliver109]

Most people in these photos are indigenous, the usual blend of Mediterranean and Keltic elements. Phenotypes have changed a lot: faces have become longer and narrower, Alpine component is today no longer the dominant component.

I still see a lot of alpine influence in eastern France though some posters will claim that those alpines are immigrants from Romania etc

[Beraud]

Sorry hun it's pretty hard to classify unclear B/W photos....Most people looked the same in such photos from over a hundred years ago....Try modern pics?

They did not look all the same, proof being that the very anthropology notions we use in here were inventend and coined in these times. This is imo more interesting than modern pictures because people still had phenotypes specific to their region and even to their village in some cases whereas today with all the intra-French population movements and immigration from outside of France, both European and non-european, classification is kind of pointless

[Beraud]

From Saint-Julien-Labrousse (next to Le Cheylard), a village where some of my ancestors were from, in the same region.
118940 118941
118942 118943
118944 118945
118946 118947
118948 118949
118950 118951
118952 118953
118954

[Oliver109]

They did not look all the same, proof being that the very anthropology notions we use in here were inventend and coined in these times. This is imo more interesting than modern pictures because people still had phenotypes specific to their region and even to their village in some cases whereas today with all the intra-French population movements and immigration from outside of France, both European and non-european, classification is kind of pointless

Don't you think France has local looks today? In the UK there are still very specific looks in certain regions, especially in the North of England and even parts of the south east.

[Beraud]

Don't you think France has local looks today? In the UK there are still very specific looks in certain regions, especially in the North of England and even parts of the south east.

Well there are still specific looks in some areas like the South-West or in Vendée but it's not the majority, I think overall native French people have rather homogeneous looks nowadays.

[Oliver109]

Well there are still specific looks in some areas like the South-West or in Vendée but it's not the majority, I think overall native French people have rather homogeneous looks nowadays.

The North still has that distinct robust Flemish borreby alpine mix, Brittany seems to have a strong light eyed alpine strain, Normandy has a lot of subnordics, Alsace has a lot of alpinised Bavarian looking types so regional variation is there, just don't look for it in Paris.

[hurtuv]

Make the moustache great again! ;)

[Boudin]

Saint-Julien-Labrousse (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?371476-Phenotypes-of-south-eastern-France&p=7688509&viewfull=1#post7688509)
https://i.imgur.com/PjAQZbC.png

[sevruk]

Med, Alpine, Dinaric

[Beraud]

Med, Alpine, Dinaric

Ah yes, clearly no Nordic and Cro-magnid types in there.

[Boudin]

Ah yes, clearly no Nordic and Cro-magnid types in there.

Isn't Alpine a type of Cro-magnid?

[andrzej]

Modern phenotypes in the region:


As I said in the other thread, southern France has received a lot of French migrants from the north and that's clear by surnames alone. If you look at people from smaller towns and villages with Occitan surnames you see that most are indistinguishable from either their Spanish or Italian neighbours, with phenotypes like:

https://64.media.tumblr.com/b641043c5a890c4fc6fdf9379f1aad06/736d2bf7a24c4b00-09/s400x600/521f9d26e07343edb1f915c1227463ec0421d563.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/dc09641ea3f171c2c76b014a0ff3aae0/736d2bf7a24c4b00-04/s500x750/8635ca51b896d9a2d291bba9c4b6923a8e671903.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/415c883e2d110f144f009703978ba1a7/736d2bf7a24c4b00-e3/s500x750/6fbd5dd08e4c335b7bf9d2487ab54618a3a4cb4a.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7f4c7e0786ca2d7a61d4bc5b53242f3b/736d2bf7a24c4b00-c3/s500x750/a0ddcfb1031fcef69ddc955e6cd7413ec27ac85c.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/57302614c6443a4cc7b71dc33a7f7bed/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-a5/s500x750/93e206e5090628520da78e93afe0eefd0933ccd7.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/c52c1da966e6992bdbece5d8c725f18f/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-3b/s1280x1920/9b4bd8ec5b2e276bff6a39b66a079cd552548ccf.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8a12418c51cf6481ac1bc4f296492917/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-25/s540x810/c128d6693b234060ba6f572edf4980786592541c.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/22a482400f5cb819eb871183eb34ddbe/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-70/s500x750/68373ac9bdc3da1ce174b7ff747adce21460bc57.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b61d46872a69a83573ceb97ce04815b4/736d2bf7a24c4b00-5b/s400x600/2afa55794ec586cb147d6843a78800215cb383b0.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b619fb50a350d66404e2f7ceb94ae4ba/736d2bf7a24c4b00-93/s500x750/8178769b202ec331b5873e2b890cd8df39b2b301.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/19784d5934449d52cb3e25f3cc603535/736d2bf7a24c4b00-f6/s500x750/937ebaecb8535169d4db96a33ccdcad0c8af8ec4.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0a2290ac9f7c307b0d86ecfc0c6c3c72/736d2bf7a24c4b00-8e/s1280x1920/980df08d0363cd20afa4564e46d86f98afea4ed1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/89e6ddf3ecce72a5f87b90e91cdf8181/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-75/s1280x1920/16dc9b795742ec063509db9422e1e51137d1a7e1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0141fffe47a30bf04c45f3619e4b33be/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-18/s500x750/733e3c508eb7e3a4efae99d2f265515cd1f4f356.jpg



https://www.thegoodarles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/fete-de-la-tarasque-2018-tarascon-6.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BG516C/arlsiennes-fete-du-costume-arles-bouches-du-rhone-provence-france-BG516C.jpg
https://images.rove.me/w_1920,q_85/z4smcwhpqi86e5lgd9jn/provence-french-riviera-fete-du-costume-in-arles.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compit/cy2jja/signora-in-costume-tradizionale-come-e-il-derigger-tutori-per-mogli-e-beauxs-durante-la-fete-des-tutori-in-arles-cy2jja.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/cxpnr6/arlesienne-habilles-en-vetements-traditionnels-paradea-a-la-fete-des-gardians-ou-fete-de-l-bergers-dans-la-ville-romaine-d-arles-provence-france-cxpnr6.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/cy2jyx/mesdames-et-fille-en-costume-traditionnel-comme-c-est-le-derigger-aux-tuteurs-wifes-et-beauxs-au-cours-de-la-fete-des-tuteurs-a-arles-cy2jyx.jpg

Sorry for hijacking your thread Beraud.

[Beraud]

As I said in the other thread, southern France has received a lot of French migrants from the north and that's clear by surnames alone. If you look at people from smaller towns and villages with Occitan surnames you see that most are indistinguishable from either their Spanish or Italian neighbours, with phenotypes like:

https://64.media.tumblr.com/b641043c5a890c4fc6fdf9379f1aad06/736d2bf7a24c4b00-09/s400x600/521f9d26e07343edb1f915c1227463ec0421d563.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/dc09641ea3f171c2c76b014a0ff3aae0/736d2bf7a24c4b00-04/s500x750/8635ca51b896d9a2d291bba9c4b6923a8e671903.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/415c883e2d110f144f009703978ba1a7/736d2bf7a24c4b00-e3/s500x750/6fbd5dd08e4c335b7bf9d2487ab54618a3a4cb4a.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7f4c7e0786ca2d7a61d4bc5b53242f3b/736d2bf7a24c4b00-c3/s500x750/a0ddcfb1031fcef69ddc955e6cd7413ec27ac85c.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/57302614c6443a4cc7b71dc33a7f7bed/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-a5/s500x750/93e206e5090628520da78e93afe0eefd0933ccd7.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/c52c1da966e6992bdbece5d8c725f18f/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-3b/s1280x1920/9b4bd8ec5b2e276bff6a39b66a079cd552548ccf.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8a12418c51cf6481ac1bc4f296492917/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-25/s540x810/c128d6693b234060ba6f572edf4980786592541c.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/22a482400f5cb819eb871183eb34ddbe/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-70/s500x750/68373ac9bdc3da1ce174b7ff747adce21460bc57.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b61d46872a69a83573ceb97ce04815b4/736d2bf7a24c4b00-5b/s400x600/2afa55794ec586cb147d6843a78800215cb383b0.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b619fb50a350d66404e2f7ceb94ae4ba/736d2bf7a24c4b00-93/s500x750/8178769b202ec331b5873e2b890cd8df39b2b301.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/19784d5934449d52cb3e25f3cc603535/736d2bf7a24c4b00-f6/s500x750/937ebaecb8535169d4db96a33ccdcad0c8af8ec4.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0a2290ac9f7c307b0d86ecfc0c6c3c72/736d2bf7a24c4b00-8e/s1280x1920/980df08d0363cd20afa4564e46d86f98afea4ed1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/89e6ddf3ecce72a5f87b90e91cdf8181/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-75/s1280x1920/16dc9b795742ec063509db9422e1e51137d1a7e1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0141fffe47a30bf04c45f3619e4b33be/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-18/s500x750/733e3c508eb7e3a4efae99d2f265515cd1f4f356.jpg



https://www.thegoodarles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/fete-de-la-tarasque-2018-tarascon-6.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BG516C/arlsiennes-fete-du-costume-arles-bouches-du-rhone-provence-france-BG516C.jpg
https://images.rove.me/w_1920,q_85/z4smcwhpqi86e5lgd9jn/provence-french-riviera-fete-du-costume-in-arles.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compit/cy2jja/signora-in-costume-tradizionale-come-e-il-derigger-tutori-per-mogli-e-beauxs-durante-la-fete-des-tutori-in-arles-cy2jja.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/cxpnr6/arlesienne-habilles-en-vetements-traditionnels-paradea-a-la-fete-des-gardians-ou-fete-de-l-bergers-dans-la-ville-romaine-d-arles-provence-france-cxpnr6.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/cy2jyx/mesdames-et-fille-en-costume-traditionnel-comme-c-est-le-derigger-aux-tuteurs-wifes-et-beauxs-au-cours-de-la-fete-des-tuteurs-a-arles-cy2jyx.jpg

Sorry for hijacking your thread Beraud.


The men I have posted were all native occitans from the Massif Central, with local genealogies. They don't strike me as particularly Spanish or Italian-looking.

[Flashball]

The men I have posted were all native occitans from the Massif Central, with local genealogies. They don't strike me as particularly Spanish or Italian-looking.

This

[Östsvensk]

Is it common in France that women who are darker have children who are blond at a young age?

Like this (1 minute in since you can't timestamp here):


https://youtu.be/FrxY6BCflXU

[Beraud]

Is it common in France that women who are darker have children who are blond at a young age?

Like this (1 minute in since you can't timestamp here):


https://youtu.be/FrxY6BCflXU

Most native French children (with exceptions, and note that this is only from personal experience) have blond hair that darkens with time, albeit at different speed depending on the individual (also obviously, some do not darken at all and remain blond). I had blond hair as a little kid, but now at ~25 it's brown, same for my brother and all my friends.

[Oliver109]

As I said in the other thread, southern France has received a lot of French migrants from the north and that's clear by surnames alone. If you look at people from smaller towns and villages with Occitan surnames you see that most are indistinguishable from either their Spanish or Italian neighbours, with phenotypes like:

https://64.media.tumblr.com/b641043c5a890c4fc6fdf9379f1aad06/736d2bf7a24c4b00-09/s400x600/521f9d26e07343edb1f915c1227463ec0421d563.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/dc09641ea3f171c2c76b014a0ff3aae0/736d2bf7a24c4b00-04/s500x750/8635ca51b896d9a2d291bba9c4b6923a8e671903.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/415c883e2d110f144f009703978ba1a7/736d2bf7a24c4b00-e3/s500x750/6fbd5dd08e4c335b7bf9d2487ab54618a3a4cb4a.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7f4c7e0786ca2d7a61d4bc5b53242f3b/736d2bf7a24c4b00-c3/s500x750/a0ddcfb1031fcef69ddc955e6cd7413ec27ac85c.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/57302614c6443a4cc7b71dc33a7f7bed/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-a5/s500x750/93e206e5090628520da78e93afe0eefd0933ccd7.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/c52c1da966e6992bdbece5d8c725f18f/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-3b/s1280x1920/9b4bd8ec5b2e276bff6a39b66a079cd552548ccf.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8a12418c51cf6481ac1bc4f296492917/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-25/s540x810/c128d6693b234060ba6f572edf4980786592541c.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/22a482400f5cb819eb871183eb34ddbe/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-70/s500x750/68373ac9bdc3da1ce174b7ff747adce21460bc57.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b61d46872a69a83573ceb97ce04815b4/736d2bf7a24c4b00-5b/s400x600/2afa55794ec586cb147d6843a78800215cb383b0.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/b619fb50a350d66404e2f7ceb94ae4ba/736d2bf7a24c4b00-93/s500x750/8178769b202ec331b5873e2b890cd8df39b2b301.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/19784d5934449d52cb3e25f3cc603535/736d2bf7a24c4b00-f6/s500x750/937ebaecb8535169d4db96a33ccdcad0c8af8ec4.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0a2290ac9f7c307b0d86ecfc0c6c3c72/736d2bf7a24c4b00-8e/s1280x1920/980df08d0363cd20afa4564e46d86f98afea4ed1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/89e6ddf3ecce72a5f87b90e91cdf8181/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-75/s1280x1920/16dc9b795742ec063509db9422e1e51137d1a7e1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0141fffe47a30bf04c45f3619e4b33be/b102a7ccc5dcfd56-18/s500x750/733e3c508eb7e3a4efae99d2f265515cd1f4f356.jpg



https://www.thegoodarles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/fete-de-la-tarasque-2018-tarascon-6.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BG516C/arlsiennes-fete-du-costume-arles-bouches-du-rhone-provence-france-BG516C.jpg
https://images.rove.me/w_1920,q_85/z4smcwhpqi86e5lgd9jn/provence-french-riviera-fete-du-costume-in-arles.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compit/cy2jja/signora-in-costume-tradizionale-come-e-il-derigger-tutori-per-mogli-e-beauxs-durante-la-fete-des-tutori-in-arles-cy2jja.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/cxpnr6/arlesienne-habilles-en-vetements-traditionnels-paradea-a-la-fete-des-gardians-ou-fete-de-l-bergers-dans-la-ville-romaine-d-arles-provence-france-cxpnr6.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/cy2jyx/mesdames-et-fille-en-costume-traditionnel-comme-c-est-le-derigger-aux-tuteurs-wifes-et-beauxs-au-cours-de-la-fete-des-tuteurs-a-arles-cy2jyx.jpg

Sorry for hijacking your thread Beraud.

A lot look quite Greek or Balkan like, even Turkish, they must have their origins somewhere around the Anatolian region.

[Östsvensk]

Most native French children (with exceptions, and note that this is only from personal experience) have blond hair that darkens with time, albeit at different speed depending on the individual (also obviously, some do not darken at all and remain blond). I had blond hair as a little kid, but now at ~25 it's brown, same for my brother and all my friends.

I know that one is generally lighter in childhood years. It would still seem a bit unique to me that a rather Medish-looking woman had a blond child (my father is Atlantid range in pigmentation and he was not blond when he was little). Unless the father was lighter or there were lighter genes lurking in her family tree. Or maybe Meds can even be blond as children, I don't know.