Hungarian parliament approved Finland's NATO membership [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Lemminkäinen

03-27-2023, 07:32 PM

Hungary isnt as easy country as it seems from outside. Recently 170 generals and high ranking officers were kicked from Hungarian army. Who knows whats happening behind closed doors? But of course, we dont care and dont respect internal politics of another country if our security is on the table. But we nonstop talk about democracy.

It is not nonstop talk. There is certain differences which we should respect. If you follow the discussion in United Kingdom and compare it to the situation in Russia when Putin speaks, you may recognize the difference. Democracy and autocracy have certain differences and I don't claim that some country is either one or another, but individuals have certain opinions about these two, although on the ABF the democracy isn't popular until someone says "you can't say this and that in your country". And when this happens, it is already too late.

Alenka

03-27-2023, 07:45 PM

This is not good. Finland does NOT belong in NATO.
:no:

Lemminkäinen

03-27-2023, 07:48 PM

This is not good. Finland does NOT belong in NATO.
:no:

Why?

Dick

03-28-2023, 03:15 AM

This is not good. Finland does NOT belong in NATO.
:no:

Hail Nato!

https://i.imgur.com/5Ycvz4m.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/13B8/production/_84584050_3494754156_9273aff2f3_b.jpg

Blondie

03-28-2023, 03:49 AM

I just do not know what Hungarians won by this 6 months ''theater'' ... Finns are simply, honest & straight people with elephant's memory. Treat them ok, and they are very harmless. Treat them badly, and they are pretty bad asses.

Stop this bullshit pls, Hungary doesnt give f*ck about Finland but you guys (along with Sweden) criticized Hungary many times, spreaded tons of lying about Hungary and you voted every kind of sanction against Hungary, this is how this whole story has started. As you said: "Treat them badly, and they are pretty bad asses." fits perfectly for Hungary too.

Mopi Licinius Crassus

03-28-2023, 03:51 AM

Blondie

03-28-2023, 04:10 AM

Hungary isnt as easy country as it seems from outside. Recently 170 generals and high ranking officers were kicked from Hungarian army. Who knows whats happening behind closed doors? But of course, we dont care and dont respect internal politics of another country if our security is on the table. But we nonstop talk about democracy.

The ex leftist government ruined the hungarian army completely, we needed a huge cleansing inside the army, many of these "officers" and "generals" were just politicians in the reality without any military background. Even the little Slovakia had stronger army than Hungary in the past, which was very awkward.
Orbán did a significant military reform and he wants to modernize the army. He increased the number of reservists and tons of other hungarian got weapons training as border guard. Orbán prevented the selling of the old soviet tanks, weapons and other military stuffs and we kept them in warehouses. The hungarian army is much bigger than in the statistics. We would defeat a swedish and finnish coalition any time. Its just funny when the little kid tease the big brother, this is how Finland relates to Hungary.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 05:17 AM

Stop this bullshit pls, Hungary doesnt give f*ck about Finland but you guys (along with Sweden) criticized Hungary many times, spreaded tons of lying about Hungary and you voted every kind of sanction against Hungary, this is how this whole story has started. As you said: "Treat them badly, and they are pretty bad asses." fits perfectly for Hungary too.

Lies? By saying your ''trustful'' Orband or by valuing those against the rules of EU (which you should follow; no matter good or bad; as being member of the club).

But that does not mean anything now. As be aware, you have not seen anything yet!

Now as this has been done ... and you say ... you do not give f*ck about them? ... then pretty wrong move here ''southern'' as they'll opposite really give f*ck about you now ... and all that bloodsucking money you are hoping to get from EU's taxpayers (living like some ''gypsies'').

Orban chose the wrong partner to ''dance with his childish games''.

PERKELE attitudes rules!

billErobreren

03-28-2023, 05:33 AM

Well, that's nice...

Hail Nato!

https://i.imgur.com/5Ycvz4m.jpg
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/13B8/production/_84584050_3494754156_9273aff2f3_b.jpg

They know which side their bread should be buttered, 'tis not with mother Russia, but birthing person America.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 07:38 AM

Lies? By saying your ''trustful'' Orband or by valuing those against the rules of EU (which you should follow; no matter good or bad; as being member of the club).

But that does not mean anything now. As be aware, you have not seen anything yet!

Now as this has been done ... and you say ... you do not give f*ck about them? ... then pretty wrong move here ''southern'' as they'll opposite really give f*ck about you now ... and all that bloodsucking money you are hoping to get from EU's taxpayers (living like some ''gypsies'').

Orban chose the wrong partner to ''dance with his childish games''.

PERKELE attitudes rules!

1. This kultur-marxist shit is not european value, dummy. Hungary is almost the only country in EU that support the real european values, unlike your country (Sweden) which is an anti-european woke paradise where peoples dont even know where is the male of female toilet.

2. You guys started this whole conflict and now youre crying when Hungary strikes back. Very "adult" behaviour lol

3. Wrong partner? :rotfl: What you swedes will do? Are you going to do a huge anti-hungarian Pride? :rotfl: Sweden did not see any war or conflict since 17-18. century, during this time Hungary was at war hundreds of times, against much bigger enemies. Conflict/war is part of hungarian identity and national character, every generation has an own war of freedom fight (last happened in 2006), without conflicts, hungarians are bored. So good luck ;)

Blondie

03-28-2023, 07:58 AM

Btw i hope if this perkele spirit will be not enough, then you are not going to Brussels to cry. You know i dont like such kids who are brave only behind mommies skirt.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 08:53 AM

Stop this bullshit pls, Hungary doesnt give f*ck about Finland but you guys (along with Sweden) criticized Hungary many times, spreaded tons of lying about Hungary and you voted every kind of sanction against Hungary, this is how this whole story has started. As you said: "Treat them badly, and they are pretty bad asses." fits perfectly for Hungary too.

Stop bullshit pls, Finland doesn't give fuck about Hungary, but you guys don't understand how the EU works. In EU parliament political groups formulate statements and push buttons without asking anything from the mother land. It is democracy (again, lol). They vote against Finland too, even those Finnish MEPs. They can, vecause Finland is not led by a corporation or conspiracy. The official Finland has very seldom criticized Hungary, but Hungarian PM has continuously critisized Finland. Read your own news to see it. I made a Google search in Finnish "Orban critisized Finland" and got maybe hundreds hits. I repeat, the actor is the EU who have risen a question about Hungarian democracy, not Finland.

catgeorge

03-28-2023, 09:16 AM

So, is there any reason why Finland should be taken seriously?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fa3SpzHWAAUJuEZ.jpg:large

Creoda

03-28-2023, 09:25 AM

Nice one Hungary :thumb001:

Good to see Finland and the Nordic countries join the NATO family. Vis Unita Fortior.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 09:30 AM

So, is there any reason why Finland should be taken seriously?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fa3SpzHWAAUJuEZ.jpg:large

We have eye for a good show. But I admit that Sanna is a shit talker raised by the western media.

catgeorge

03-28-2023, 09:32 AM

We have eye for a good show. But I admit that Sanna is a shit talker raised by the western media.

If this is leadership then god help us all.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 09:33 AM

Stop bullshit pls, Finland doesn't give fuck about Hungary, but you guys don't understand how the EU works. In EU parliament political groups formulate statements and push buttons without asking anything from the mother land. It is democracy (again, lol). They vote against Finland too, even those Finnish MEPs. The official Finland has very seldom criticized Hungary, but Hungarian PM has continuously critisized Finland. Read your own news to see it. I made a Google search in Finnish "Orban critisized Finland" and got maybe hundreds hits. I repeat, the actor is the EU who have risen a question about Hungarian democracy, not Finland.

I do understand how the EU works, and its similar to soviet block. This is what you have never experienced. Brussels wants slave states, nothing else, where everyone do what globalists want. If you dont do that, then youre anti-democratic, fascist, anti-european etc. I know this whole shit very well.
Remember when the migration crisis has started only Hungary wanted to defend its own borders and everyone attacked Hungary, not long after that everyone adopted the hungarian methods and they built walls against migrants. Orbán reformed the european conservativism, the EU answer was kicking Hungary out of conservative EP fraction, and now every european right winger wants to copy Orbáns policy. You still dont understand? Orbán is right in every european question, others always realize it few years later. The whole world knows who is Orbán, but i dont remember who is the finnish or swedish presidents, because they are totally irrelevant bootlicker globalist puppets.
I dont care democracy, this is just the keyword of globalists to rule and enslave your country. Nevertheless, Hungary works more democratic than for example Germany where the woke terror and hegemony is pretty normal. Basically a mafia state is more democratic than these leftist social experiment states.
Sorry but i cant stop laughing when FS said the scandinavian governments want to fight with hungarian government. Orbán and his clan works like the sicilian mafia, they call each other as "Don". I think you have not heard about the Schadl issue and sound recordings. Do you think these grass eater woke ladyboy scando politicians can defeat a badass mafia clan? They will hire some albanian or russian hitman and good night.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 09:41 AM

If this is leadership then god help us all.
A good democracy will not long for one woman. She had not succeeded to make serious damage. The worst she has done is that she promised our air force to Zelensky. She said to Zelensky " we can give some Hornets if you need them" lol. She can be childish and crazy. Like sending modern fighters by a post to anyone and everyone is ready straight ahead to jump into the cockpit.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 10:31 AM

I do understand how the EU works, and its similar to soviet block. This is what you have never experienced. Brussels wants slave states, nothing else, where everyone do what globalists want. If you dont do that, then youre anti-democratic, fascist, anti-european etc. I know this whole shit very well.
Remember when the migration crisis has started only Hungary wanted to defend its own borders and everyone attacked Hungary, not long after that everyone adopted the hungarian methods and they built walls against migrants. Orbán reformed the european conservativism, the EU answer was kicking Hungary out of conservative EP fraction, and now every european right winger wants to copy Orbáns policy. You still dont understand? Orbán is right in every european question, others always realize it few years later. The whole world knows who is Orbán, but i dont remember who is the finnish or swedish presidents, because they are totally irrelevant bootlicker globalist puppets.
I dont care democracy, this is just the keyword of globalists to rule and enslave your country. Nevertheless, Hungary works more democratic than for example Germany where the woke terror and hegemony is pretty normal. Basically a mafia state is more democratic than these leftist social experiment states.
Sorry but i cant stop laughing when FS said the scandinavian governments want to fight with hungarian government. Orbán and his clan works like the sicilian mafia, they call each other as "Don". I think you have not heard about the Schadl issue and sound recordings. Do you think these grass eater woke ladyboy scando politicians can defeat a badass mafia clan? They will hire some albanian or russian hitman and good night.

Orban is not a good equalizer, prophet or trailblazer, just a right wing politician using power in Hungary. Hungary is just a small country and Orban's party has a majority, thus making decisions

We know Russian gansters, we had them more than you, because Finland used to be the country where Russian gansters, spies and some oligarchs in the 90s learnt how to act in "the free world". They have disappeared somewhere, maybe after the training period. We had tens Russian oligarchs who belonged to the Putin's inner circle. Some of them have still property here, but they can't come here any more. A small issue is that some of them are Finnish citizens, but on sanction lists of EU and USA. The Finnish Security Intelligence Service knows everything about Russian oligarchs, gansters and spies, who ever visited here. Russians own land areas here, but every time shady happens the Security Police cleans things. You are not the right person frightening us by Russian hitmen.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 10:45 AM

Orban is not a good equalizer, prophet or trailblazer, just a right wing politician using power in Hungary. Hungary is just a small country and Orban's party has a majority, thus making decisions

We know Russian gansters, we had them more than you, because Finland used to be the country where Russian gansters, spies and some oligarchs in the 90s learnt how to act in "the free world". They have disappeared somewhere, maybe after the training period. We had tens Russian oligarchs who belonged to the Putin's inner circle. Some of them have still property here, but they can't come here any more. A small issue is that some of them are Finnish citizens, but on sanction lists of EU and USA. The Finnish Security Intelligence Service knows everything about Russian oligarchs, gansters and spies, who ever visited here. Russians own land areas here, but every time shady happens the Security Police cleans things. You are not the right person frightening us by Russian hitmen.

1. If Orbán is not good equalizer, prophet or trailblazer just a simple politician, then why the whole world knows him and why others copy Orbáns methods and policy? :)

2. Hard to belive that you know the russian mafia more than hungary, because in the 90' years the base of russian Red Mafia was in Budapest, the boss Semion Mogilevich (Uncle Szeva as hungarians called him) lived in Budapest and he was famous celeb, media invited him in TV shows etc, btw he is one of the most wanted person on FBI list. So nice try.

3. I was just joking with russian hitman. I just wanted to show the difference between the both elite.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 11:04 AM

1. If Orbán is not good equalizer, prophet or trailblazer just a simple politician, then why the whole world knows him and why others copy Orbáns methods and policy? :)

2. Hard to belive that you know the russian mafia more than hungary, because in the 90' years the base of russian Red Mafia was in Budapest, the boss Semion Mogilevich (Uncle Szeva as hungarians called him) lived in Budapest and he was famous celeb, media invited him in TV shows etc, btw he is one of the most wanted person on FBI list. So nice try.

3. I was just joking with russian hitman. I just wanted to show the difference between the both elite.

Russian magia men in Finland were just murders, drug dealers and muggers from St. Petersburg mafia where also Putin and Prigozin are from, as well almost entirely the Russian leader gang.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 02:17 PM

1. This kultur-marxist shit is not european value, dummy. Hungary is almost the only country in EU that support the real european values, unlike your country (Sweden) which is an anti-european woke paradise where peoples dont even know where is the male of female toilet.

2. You guys started this whole conflict and now youre crying when Hungary strikes back. Very "adult" behaviour lol

3. Wrong partner? :rotfl: What you swedes will do? Are you going to do a huge anti-hungarian Pride? :rotfl: Sweden did not see any war or conflict since 17-18. century, during this time Hungary was at war hundreds of times, against much bigger enemies. Conflict/war is part of hungarian identity and national character, every generation has an own war of freedom fight (last happened in 2006), without conflicts, hungarians are bored. So good luck ;)

First of all it is funny that as people (TA) talk about genetics some tries desperately say that I'm Finn (rising up ''monger impact''). And now, opposite as a Swede, then we talk about politics.

Wrong Blondie, now I talked from mount of citizen of Finland (not a citizen of Sweden).

Why?

Just as Sweden cares about this NATO ''farce'' much less than Finland & Finns. Sweden / Swedes can wait as long as it takes, and Swedes do not even need it. Especially if/as Finland will join the club. Sweden had a agreement with USA and UK (whole Cold War era). Time then you eastern were pockets of Russians. Now, I do not think that the position of Sweden has changed much since those days. Russians knows that too. Sweden is and has always been part of so called Western World. Ask yourself to whom USA/Brits would come to protect more easily (risk of WWIII)? Sweden or your Hungary? Yes, agreements means sometimes nothing. Poles knows that (WWII).

Lastly If Orban believes that he can someway blackmail Sweden (because Sweden has the Presidency of the Council of the European Union right now) .... oh, I'm afraid .... he will become very disappointed. Just like your politicians who visited Stockholm (and Helsinki day later).

So nope, this time I talked behalf of Finland & Finns. You should have noticed that via PERKELE word latest.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 02:36 PM

Sweden is and has always been part of so called Western World. Ask yourself to whom USA/Brits would come to protect more easily (risk of WWII)? Sweden or your Hungary? Yes, agremants means sometimes nothing. Poles knows that (WWII).

Good, fortunatelly Hungary is not part of western woke world and never will be. I really hope USA/brits would protect Sweden instead of Hungary, and your country will be the war zone between Russia-USA, not mine. I also hope that USA will leave Hungary alone and they will export their woke shit to your country, instead of Hungary.

Lastly If Orban believes that he can someway blackmail Sweden (because Sweden has the Presidency of the Council of the European Union right now) .... oh, I'm afraid .... he will become very disappointed. Just like your politician who visited Stockholm (and Helsinki day later).

So nope, this time I talked behalf of Finland & Finns. You should have noticed that via PERKELE word latest.

Hungary can blackmail Sweden anytime, did you know that Hungary keep tons of refugee out and most of these migrants wanna go to Scandinavia? If Orbán open the gates, and the hungarian goverment give them some "Sweden will welcome you" flyers to migrants then your country will be flooded by millions of muslims. To be honest this is what you deserve, the most cucked nation of all time, every negative stereotype what non whites said to whites is based on swedes.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 02:45 PM

FS, if you have friends in the swedish government pls convice them to kick Hungary out from EUSSR. We most cut every connection off with this woke empire.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 02:48 PM

Good, fortunatelly Hungary is not part of western woke world and never will be. I really hope USA/brits would protect Sweden instead of Hungary, and your country will be the war zone between Russia-USA, not mine. I also hope that USA will leave Hungary alone and they will export their woke shit to your country, instead of Hungary.
Yes, lets hope that 1956 will happen again. You deserve that!

Hungary can blackmail Sweden anytime, did you know that Hungary keep tons of refugee out and most of these migrants wanna go to Scandinavia? If Orbán open the gates, and the hungarian goverment give them some "Sweden will welcome you" flyers to migrants then your country will be flooded by millions of muslims. To be honest this is what you deserve, the most cucked nation of all time, every negative stereotype what non whites said to whites is based on swedes.
Wrong again Blondie (if you are blondie at all like me).

They will mostly end to Central Europe, France and UK, and only some will come up here. Just look the volume wise where the refugees have settled down. Our cold climate will not temptate all of them (and our pretty small cities). Crimes have better growing fields in much bigger circumstances. So be my guest and blackmail whole Western Europe. We have used on that from Orban. The more (often) you do that, the more others (all the others) will gonna hate you!

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 02:50 PM

FS, if you have friends in the swedish government pls convice them to kick Hungary out from EUSSR. We most cut every connection off with this woke empire.

Good tip, but wrong order. As first you should be kicked out from NATO!

Blondie

03-28-2023, 02:58 PM

Yes, lets hope that 1956 will happen again. You deserve that!

Okay we will have another 56' and you will have a total russian vs american war in your country, deal?

They will mostly end to Central Europe, France and UK, and only some will come up here. Just look the volume wise where the refugees have settled down. Our cold climate will not temptate all of them (and our pretty small cities). Crimes have better growing fields in much bigger circumstances. So be my guest and blackmail whole Western Europe. We have used on that from Orban. The more (often) you do that, the more others (all the others) will gonna hate you!

I hope the globalists hate Hungary its a great pride for my country, it means we do something good. Migrants dont even care the climate dummy, they wants only aids and money what your country will give them.

As first you should be kicked out from NATO!

Nice, just pls do that. We will be independent again, you can be the actual american bootlicker.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 03:09 PM

Okay we will have another 56' and you will have a total russian vs american war in your country, deal?

Yes, lets hope you will face 56 again. Sweden? Russian's hand will not reach here (like it can to Finland) and if WW III will start; believe me Stockholm will not be among of first targets for missles of Russia. Even less so with Americans. Sorry. So at time we will get ''ours'', well that does not mean much anymore.

I hope the globalists hate Hungary its a great pride for my country, it means we do something good. Migrants dont even care the climate dummy, they wants only aids and money what your country will give them.
If you will call globalist huge majority of citizens of those countries; then yes.

Nice, just pls do that. We will be independent again, you can be the actual american bootlicker.
Nice indeed. I would love to see Orban in the position of Lukashenko ... realaizing/facing the truth that his ''gauntlet game'' has become an end.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 03:36 PM

Yes, lets hope you will face 56 again. Sweden? Russian's hand will not reach here (like it can to Finland) and if WW III will start; believe me Stockholm will not be among of first targets for missles of Russia. Even less so with Americans. Sorry. So at time we will get ''ours'', well that does not mean much anymore.

If you will call globalist huge majority of citizens of those countries; then yes.

Nice indeed. I would love to see Orban in the position of Lukashenko ... realaizing/facing the truth that his ''gauntlet game'' has become an end.

Of course Sweden/Finland will be target of russian nuclear missles if you became NATO members.
And Orbán facing some truth by Lukasenka's side, meanwhile Sweden facing that your country will be muslim majority, your laws will based on Quran and you must wear burqa lol I think the first option is much better.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 04:03 PM

Of course Sweden/Finland will be target of russian nuclear missles if you became NATO members.
LOL. Think a bit more. NATO membership means nothing. Russians will/would strategically hit first to places like London, Paris, Berlin, etc. in Europe They have even said so. Not to here up north as long as we do not have nuclear weapons here. And we have no plans to have any (just like Norway). Lastly, St. Petersburg is pretty close to Finland's border. So against Finland they would use different weapons.

And Orbán facing some truth by Lukasenka's side, meanwhile Sweden facing that your country will be muslim majority, your laws will based on Quran and you must wear burqa lol I think the first option is much better.
You missed some words. I'll wear my bunad. You hardly know what that is.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 04:26 PM

First of all it is funny that as people (TA) talk about genetics some tries desperately say that I'm Finn (rising up ''monger impact''). And now, opposite as a Swede, then we talk about politics.

Wrong Blondie, now I talked from mount of citizen of Finland (not a citizen of Sweden).

Why?

Just as Sweden cares about this NATO ''farce'' much less than Finland & Finns. Sweden / Swedes can wait as long as it takes, and Swedes do not even need it. Especially if/as Finland will join the club. Sweden had a agreement with USA and UK (whole Cold War era). Time then you eastern were pockets of Russians. Now, I do not think that the position of Sweden has changed much since those days. Russians knows that too. Sweden is and has always been part of so called Western World. Ask yourself to whom USA/Brits would come to protect more easily (risk of WWIII)? Sweden or your Hungary? Yes, agreements means sometimes nothing. Poles knows that (WWII).

Lastly If Orban believes that he can someway blackmail Sweden (because Sweden has the Presidency of the Council of the European Union right now) .... oh, I'm afraid .... he will become very disappointed. Just like your politicians who visited Stockholm (and Helsinki day later).

So nope, this time I talked behalf of Finland & Finns. You should have noticed that via PERKELE word latest.

Yeah, this Hungarian show with delegations was amazing. Even a child can see that Orban is in the pocket of Erdogan, admires Erdogan and does whatever Erdogan orders.

Hektor12

03-28-2023, 04:33 PM

Yeah, this Hungarian show with delegations was amazing. Even a child can see that Orban is in the pocket of Erdogan, admires Erdogan and does whatever Erdogan orders.

I think Orban is closer to Putin than erdo.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 04:33 PM

LOL. Think a bit more. NATO membership means nothing. Russians will/would strategically hit first to places like London, Paris, Berlin, etc. in Europe They have even said so. Not to here up north as long as we do not have nuclear weapons here. And we have no plans to have any (just like Norway). Lastly, St. Petersburg is pretty close to Finland's border. So against Finland they would use different weapons.

You missed some words. I'll wear my bunad. You hardly know what that is.

NATO membership is a serious thing with many obligation. Americans use this region (Poland, Hungary, Ukraine) as buffer zone between them and russians, they want to force us to sacrafice our country, because east european corpses are much better than western corpses, its not even secret, thats why i hate NATO as well. If Finland and Sweden will be NATO members then your country also will be such war zone like this region, a northern buffer zone between Russia and Germany and swedes, finns will die for americans and germans.
And in a muslim country you will not wear your bunad, because muslims will not allow it. Check the migration, check their birth rate, they will be the majority, its just question of time. The problem is your country Sweden has no any historical experience with invaders, you cant recognize them.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 04:47 PM

LOL. Think a bit more. NATO membership means nothing. Russians will/would strategically hit first to places like London, Paris, Berlin, etc. in Europe They have even said so. Not to here up north as long as we do not have nuclear weapons here. And we have no plans to have any (just like Norway). Lastly, St. Petersburg is pretty close to Finland's border. So against Finland they would use different weapons.

.

Indeed, Russia has very little to win in Finland, only to lose. People listen dumbest Russian politicians how Russia wants to attack Finland or whatever they think to be cool. Finland is just big enough by geography and army that it makes no sense. If Russia wants to harass Nato it would attack Baltic countries, because they are geographically small enough to be entered in days, and they have small own armies. But even this is possible only after Russia sas recovered from the Ukrainian adventure and it takes 10-20 years.

Blondie

03-28-2023, 04:55 PM

Indeed, Russia has very little to win in Finland, only to lose. People listen dumbest Russian politicians how Russia wants to attack Finland or whatever they think to be cool. Finland is just big enough by geography and army that it makes no sense. If Russia wants to harass Nato it would attack Baltic countries, because they are geographically small enough to be entered in days, and they have small own armies. But even this is possible only after Russia sas recovered from the Ukrainian adventure and it takes 10-20 years.

The finnish army is weak compared to russian, and dont forget modern finns have nothing to do with these heroes who have fought against soviet during the Winter War.
Modern finns are 100% individualists, genderists, only hedonism does matter, tons of them dont even know where is the male toilet, rainbow families etc. The whole finnish society is unfit for a real war just like any other welfare country. Simo Hayha would got heart attack if he would see the modern weak finnish peoples.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 04:58 PM

I think Orban is closer to Putin than erdo.

Right, no doubt. Actually as a Turk I would admire a man like Erdogan. He is a badass, but has also principles. You can hate or like him.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 05:02 PM

The finnish army is weak compared to russian, and dont forget modern finns have nothing to do with these heroes who have fought against soviet during the Winter War.
Modern finns are 100% individualists, genderists, only hedonism does matter, tons of them dont even know where is the male toilet, rainbow families etc. The whole finnish society is unfit for a real war just like any other welfare country. Simo Hayha would got heart attack if he would see the modern weak finnish peoples.

You have right to your opinions, but you really don't know the ability of the Finnish army. It wouldn't be a war like in Ukraine.

Eugene Finkelstein

03-28-2023, 05:09 PM

What war would it be?

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 05:16 PM

What war would it be?

Where?

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 05:21 PM

We know Russians and they know us. All I say is that Ukraine is bound to war by one hand.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 05:22 PM

NATO membership is a serious thing with many obligation. Americans use this region (Poland, Hungary, Ukraine) as buffer zone between them and russians, they want to force us to sacrafice our country, because east european corpses are much better than western corpses, its not even secret, thats why i hate NATO as well. If Finland and Sweden will be NATO members then your country also will be such war zone like this region, a northern buffer zone between Russia and Germany and swedes, finns will die for americans and germans.
And in a muslim country you will not wear your bunad, because muslims will not allow it. Check the migration, check their birth rate, they will be the majority, its just question of time. The problem is your country Sweden has no any historical experience with invaders, you cant recognize them.

Good that you understand ... a buffer zone (= ex. Warsalaw path countries). The comic thing here is that Russians have exactly wanted to have a buffer zone. So why do Russians complain here as we have one? :)

Geographically Finland belongs to that same ''buffer zone'' but Finns have nothing to lose after all (1300km common border with Russia). Finns know Russians so well, via 1000 years of common history. Finns will not start a war, but if war starts it will hit them. No matter whether are they NATO members or not. Over all Finns are ready to die because of Russians. The secret why Finns are most willing to fight on behalf of their own country in Europe.

Sweden? Bit the same as the Netherlands, but Sweden is not even that important country (location /harbors). Nope, Russians will find many more strategic places to hit first.

And in a muslim country you will not wear your bunad, because muslims will not allow it. Check the migration, check their birth rate, they will be the majority, its just question of time. The problem is your country Sweden has no any historical experience with invaders, you cant recognize them.
In 2020 25,9% of the population were non-Swedish (2 690 000), but just about 10% of them were Muslims. It is true that under 18 years old (and in 3 big cities) % of immigrants are much higher, but do not worry. I will wear my bunad.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 05:43 PM

Sweden? Bit the same as the Netherlands, but Sweden is not even that important country (location /harbors). Nope, Russians will find many more strategic places to hit first.

Russia would like to have Gotland. Don't forget that the Baltic Sea is important for Russia, especially if Finland belongs to Nato. They have Nato free area only on the Swedish coast and Gotland would be absolutely the best place for a military base wherefrom to control whole Baltic region. I wonder if the Russia has not a plan to occupy Gotland. Sure they have it. Finland in Nato makes impossible to move from St Petersburg without to be noticed. After that they need eyes somewhere in Baltic Sea.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 05:50 PM

Russia would like to have Gotland. Don't forget that the Baltic Sea is important for Russia, especially if Finland belongs to Nato. They have Nato free area only on the Swedish coast and Gotland would be absolutely the best place for a military base wherefrom to control whole Baltic region. I wonder if the Russia has not a plan to occupy Gotland. Sure they have it. Finland in Nato makes impossible to move from St Petersburg without to be noticed. After that they need eyes somewhere in Baltic Sea.

Gotland? For sure. Visby would also be an excellent place for a US-NATO base.

Of course, Russians have plans/done simulations to occupy Gotland. To do it is another matter.

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 06:06 PM

Gotland? For sure. Visby would also be an excellent place for a US-NATO base.

Of course, Russians have plans/done simulations to occupy Gotland. To do it is another matter.

Sweden being in Nato the significance of Gotland is not so great.

Looking at the history the Gotland has not been always Swedish, not administratively, neither by population.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 06:15 PM

Sweden being in Nato the significance of Gotland is not so great.
I someway disagree. It will be excellent place to put Russians against wall (Baltic Sea area and Kaliningrad).

Looking at the history the Gotland has not been always Swedish, not administratively, neither by population.
Are you now talking about the Gutes who voluntarily submitted to the king of Sweden? Or Russians who ''visited'' the island 1808 (3 weeks later the island was liberated and the Russians capitulated).

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 06:31 PM

Are you now talking about the Gutes who voluntarily submitted to the king of Sweden? Or Russians who ''visited'' the island 1808 (3 weeks later the island was liberated and the Russians capitulated).

In the Iron Age Gotland was an independent island. It was then practically ruled by Germans and Danes. I don't remember now was it Gustav Vasa or someone else who took Gotland.

Gutes are a very old story, I meant the time around 1000 years ago. In the study (if you are interested I can search it) they fit best with Balts and Poles, but I can't see them Polish in the light of history. They were something that didn't exist any more. Maybe they were those Gutes who left the island and new inhabitants came from Sweden.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 06:55 PM

In the Iron Age Gotland was an independent island. It was then practically ruled by Germans and Danes. I don't remember now was it Gustav Vasa or someone else who took Gotland.

Gutes are a very old story, I meant the time around 1000 years ago. In the study (if you are interested I can search it) they fit best with Balts and Poles, but I can't see them Polish in the light of history. They were something that didn't exist any more. Maybe they were those Gutes who left the island and new inhabitants came from Sweden.

If I remember correctly (for example) the beginning of 15th century the Teutonic Knights guaranteed peace with the Kalmar Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union) of Scandinavia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia) by selling the island of Gotland to Queen Margaret of Denmark, Norway and Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_I_of_Denmark).

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 07:00 PM

If I remember correctly (for example) the beginning of 15th century the Teutonic Knights guaranteed peace with the Kalmar Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union) of Scandinavia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia) by selling the island of Gotland to Queen Margaret of Denmark, Norway and Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_I_of_Denmark).

Yes, but it was not always peaceful time between Danes and Swedes. Actually seldom peaceful.

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 07:06 PM

Yes, but it was not always peaceful time between Danes and Swedes. Actually seldom peaceful.

Now Lemmy; keep in mind, my father's family line comes from Skåne....

Lemminkäinen

03-28-2023, 07:18 PM

Now Lemmy; keep in mind, my father's family line comes from Skåne....

How did they felt their ethnic identity, let's talk about your grandparents and a generation back in Skåne? Let me guess, Danish?

Finnish Swede

03-28-2023, 07:28 PM

How did they felt their ethnic identity, let's talk about your grandparents and a generation back in Skåne? Let me guess, Danish?

My granny is a real ''super granny''; they say I remind her (as being as stubborn :)). I even look a lot like her as she was young (my eyes especially).

Now you guessed right; she blames Swedish politicians in Stockholm for destroying Malmö and Skåne with immigrants.

https://youtu.be/-tdlVNn3uCI

https://youtu.be/u9tgiAYfhXU?t=9

Blondie

03-28-2023, 11:25 PM

You have right to your opinions, but you really don't know the ability of the Finnish army. It wouldn't be a war like in Ukraine.

I 100% agree with it. Ukrainians are nationalists, they know what is poverty, what is hungry, they can live on minimal level, these are totally unknown things in Finland, finns are spoiled weak peoples generated by a welfare society which is unfit for a real war unlike the ukrainian society. You cant do such things with finns what now Zelensky doing with ukrainians.
A possible russian invasion of Finland/Sweden would be very quickly and overwhelming. Its not the 30' years anymore, the modern Finland is very different.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 05:09 AM

I 100% agree with it. Ukrainians are nationalists, they know what is poverty, what is hungry, they can live on minimal level, these are totally unknown things in Finland, finns are spoiled weak peoples generated by a welfare society which is unfit for a real war unlike the ukrainian society. You cant do such things with finns what now Zelensky doing with ukrainians.
A possible russian invasion of Finland/Sweden would be very quickly and overwhelming. Its not the 30' years anymore, the modern Finland is very different.

It is funny that exactly in a forum like this (where people tend to cut hairs as looking at all kinds of DNA results => influences someone's looks etc.), you seemed to think that there are no differences in the behavior of people (because of their different genetics/background)? All that would come from circumstances they live in?

Wrong!

Finns are not Slavic. Never been, never will be. If they would had been then they would had been part of the Russian empire already many hundreds of years.

https://youtu.be/YQVdyXU0aQE

Blondie

03-29-2023, 06:11 AM

Finns are not Slavic.

Can you quote me when i said finns are slavs? I never said that.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 06:14 AM

Can you quote me when i said finns are slavs? I never said that.

Nope, and you most likely also agree with me that Russians and Ukrainians are (Slavics).

Vasag

03-29-2023, 06:18 AM

Finns are not Slavic.

Both have same behavior when drunk.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 06:34 AM

Both have same behavior when drunk.

Haha, so true :)

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 06:39 AM

Both have same behavior when drunk.

I guess in big picture all people are quite same (meaning very stupid) if they are heavily drunk.

Those two just will stand against alcohol much better than many others (= able to drink it more). I could say that Finns are more agressive then. Atleast some of them are.
Their extremely introvert nature can burst bit wrong ways ... better watch your back.

But new generations (Finns) seemed to be wiser and wiser. They do not go to drink themselves at that final stage as often as earlier ones did. The same positive results can be seen in domestic violence results or suicide numbers.
All 3 go hand in hand and have gone continuously down while the last few decades.

Aldaris

03-29-2023, 06:54 AM

Finns are not Slavic. Never been, never will be.

Finns are not Slavic indeed. Finns aren't the conquerors. Never been, never will be. While you have been living in your frozen wasteland, we have been busy overtaking half of the Asia.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 07:56 AM

Finns are not Slavic indeed. Finns aren't the conquerors. Never been, never will be. While you have been living in your frozen wasteland, we have been busy overtaking half of the Asia.

As said bit earlier, some people will not start wars.

Other words being bastards? (and with slavics exactly ... only because of yours high numbers .. like rats, cockroaches or leeches).

Plus we know where the population is growing. In Asia. This Chineses and Russians friendship is very cold one just a political one (everyone who knows history and is able to read humans body languages knows that). Not a real one. If their present common enemy (Western World) will one day lose its power ... we will see what Chineses will really think about Russians. Or rest of the Asians.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 09:09 AM

I 100% agree with it. Ukrainians are nationalists, they know what is poverty, what is hungry, they can live on minimal level, these are totally unknown things in Finland, finns are spoiled weak peoples generated by a welfare society which is unfit for a real war unlike the ukrainian society. You cant do such things with finns what now Zelensky doing with ukrainians.
A possible russian invasion of Finland/Sweden would be very quickly and overwhelming. Its not the 30' years anymore, the modern Finland is very different.

Because you obviously are not aware of modern warfare I am not going to waste my time. I am however shocked about your attitude towards brave Ukrainian soldiers, even Russian bloggers respect them more than you. They fight to protect Ukraine and you insult them by saying that Zelensky is doing something with Ukrainians. Zelensky is only a figurehead who knew nothing about warfare before the 24. February 2022, but Ukrainians were ready to fight. Russian leaders thought that Ukrainians are soft, but they were patriotic, ready to defend their mother land. Even Russians admit now it, but you talk like Zelensky is a new Hitler or Stalin ready to kill own prople.

catgeorge

03-29-2023, 09:11 AM

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 09:13 AM

Both have same behavior when drunk.

Finns have bad genes giving this behavior, but Slavs have only bad traditions :D. So it is not the same.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 09:20 AM

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 09:30 AM

Zelensky is definitely doing that from the moment he refused to be neutral on Nuland and Blinken's orders The Jew neocons causing chaos again

Zelensky speaking with Nuland and Jews is something that Ukrainian soldiers had no idea. Why some people try to shame Ukrainian people who started to fight. At the same time same people figured Zelensky as a comedian. You are predictable.

catgeorge

03-29-2023, 09:32 AM

Zelensky speaking with Nuland and Jews is something that Ukrainian soldiers had no idea. Why some people try to shame Ukrainian people who started to fight. At the same time same people figured Zelensky as a comedian. You are predictable.

Its not that Im predictable or not he is the sole person and only reason putting Ukrainian lives in danger - full stop.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 09:44 AM

Its not that Im predictable or not he is the sole person and only reason putting Ukrainian lives in danger - full stop.

So he IS a dictator supported by USA, and Putin is a democrat giving hope to Ukrainians. Give me a break.

Aldaris

03-29-2023, 10:32 AM

Why did you not take also Europe? It is smaller than the half of Asia you took

As for you speaking to me from your positition. I wouldn't be so bold. We took over the half of the world, nire lagun mina. Nebo se nekde pletu?

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 10:44 AM

As for you speaking to me from your positition. I wouldn't be so bold. We took over the half of the world, nire lagun mina. Nebo se nekde pletu?

I see no difference in England, France, Spain and Portugal taking Americas from Native Americans and Russians taking Siberia from Native Siberians.

This is English section, so write in English

Blondie

03-29-2023, 11:27 AM

Because you obviously are not aware of modern warfare I am not going to waste my time. I am however shocked about your attitude towards brave Ukrainian soldiers, even Russian bloggers respect them more than you. They fight to protect Ukraine and you insult them by saying that Zelensky is doing something with Ukrainians. Zelensky is only a figurehead who knew nothing about warfare before the 24. February 2022, but Ukrainians were ready to fight. Russian leaders thought that Ukrainians are soft, but they were patriotic, ready to defend their mother land. Even Russians admit now it, but you talk like Zelensky is a new Hitler or Stalin ready to kill own prople.

You have no idea what im talking about, and it seems you know nothing about modern warfare either.
I did not say that Zelensky is a new Hitler, i did not insult ukrainians, its just your fantasy and probably you cannot interpret what i said.

Modern western warfare is based on small number of professional armies and modern weapons. These western armies (except the US Army) are unfit to make such classic wars like WW2. These are good for special operations for example in Iraq, North Africa, against terror groups etc, but it will not be enough in a real war, when you must mobilize the population. The western thinking is having nuclear weapons is enough to defend themselves from a real classic war. Its an illusion, what you guys want to belive so much. This russian-ukrainian war also proves that the time of classic wars is not over just because we live in 21. century.

Lets imagine an alternate scenario, for examle if Russia would attack Poland (NATO member), do you really think Biden would push the red button to destroy every human life on the planet just because russians crossed over the polish border? Dont make me laugh. He will not push the button, but the US Army would send such help to Poland like soldiers, tanks, aircraft etc, but not nuclear strike to Moscow. If two nuclear greatpower face each other, then these nuclear weapons are just bluff, what no one will use, because nobody wants a total apocalipse where everyone will die.

So, if EU countries would be at real war, and if the finnish/swedish professional army cannot eliminate the invader russians, what will you do? Wanna mobilise? Whom? The scandinavian societies are 100% weak, individualists, cucks, many of them dont even know where is the male toilet, and hedonism is their life. With these peoples you will not fight under Stalingrad in -30 celsius. This is the point, if the professional army is gone, then your country will be over, and you have lost, because the average 20-30 years old finns will not die on the front, their life/job etc will be more important. This is the curse of hedonist welfare societies like yours.
In East Europe we have different societies, east europeans are poor in general, they know what is hunger, poverty, hard life, violence, they know it means to be cold because many of them have no money to heat, and almost everyone are hardcore nationalists just look what serbs and croats did with each other in 90' years, or what are ukrainians and russians doing with each other now, look this brutality, these things are totally unknown in West Europe, because you guys lives in a protected rich safe space. If you would drop a poor slav in the middle of Siberia, he would survive for sure, but if you would drop an average western european there, he would die in 10 minutes. Do you feel the difference between easternes and westernes?
Just because the ukrainians still can stop the russians, it doesnt mean the swedes and finns also can do that, because the both society and socialization of peoples are totally different. Thats why i said you cant do with finns what Zelensky doing with ukrainians, and if russians would crossed the finnish border their victory would be very quick and overwhelming. Your hedonist, welfare society is unfit for a real war, such nations can make real war and mobilization like russians, ukrainians, poles, hungarians, romanians, serbs, croats, albanians etc. You cant do that.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 01:02 PM

You have no idea what im talking about, and it seems you know nothing about modern warfare either.
I did not say that Zelensky is a new Hitler, i did not insult ukrainians, its just your fantasy and probably you cannot interpret what i said.

Modern western warfare is based on small number of professional armies and modern weapons. These western armies (except the US Army) are unfit to make such classic wars like WW2. These are good for special operations for example in Iraq, North Africa, against terror groups etc, but it will not be enough in a real war, when you must mobilize the population. The western thinking is having nuclear weapons is enough to defend themselves from a real classic war. Its an illusion, what you guys want to belive so much. This russian-ukrainian war also proves that the time of classic wars is not over just because we live in 21. century.

Lets imagine an alternate scenario, for examle if Russia would attack Poland (NATO member), do you really think Biden would push the red button to destroy every human life on the planet just because russians crossed over the polish border? Dont make me laugh. He will not push the button, but the US Army would send such help to Poland like soldiers, tanks, aircraft etc, but not nuclear strike to Moscow. If two nuclear greatpower face each other, then these nuclear weapons are just bluff, what no one will use, because nobody wants a total apocalipse where everyone will die.

So, if EU countries would be at real war, and if the finnish/swedish professional army cannot eliminate the invader russians, what will you do? Wanna mobilise? Whom? The scandinavian societies are 100% weak, individualists, cucks, many of them dont even know where is the male toilet, and hedonism is their life. With these peoples you will not fight under Stalingrad in -30 celsius. This is the point, if the professional army is gone, then your country will be over, and you have lost, because the average 20-30 years old finns will not die on the front, their life/job etc will be more important. This is the curse of hedonist welfare societies like yours.
In East Europe we have different societies, east europeans are poor in general, they know what is hunger, poverty, hard life, violence, they know it means to be cold because many of them have no money to heat, and almost everyone are hardcore nationalists just look what serbs and croats did with each other in 90' years, or what are ukrainians and russians doing with each other now, look this brutality, these things are totally unknown in West Europe, because you guys lives in a protected rich safe space. If you would drop a poor slav in the middle of Siberia, he would survive for sure, but if you would drop an average western european there, he would die in 10 minutes. Do you feel the difference between easternes and westernes?
Just because the ukrainians still can stop the russians, it doesnt mean the swedes and finns also can do that, because the both society and socialization of peoples are totally different. Thats why i said you cant do with finns what Zelensky doing with ukrainians, and if russians would crossed the finnish border their victory would be very quick and overwhelming. Your hedonist, welfare society is unfit for a real war, such nations can make real war and mobilization like russians, ukrainians, poles, hungarians, romanians, serbs, croats, albanians etc. You cant do that.

The wartime strength of the Finnish army is 280000. Military training (6-11 months) has got 870000. We have in stock modern rifles for eveyone. All in all 2 million, but the count is limited by age and other reasons. Those 280000 are ready to take their position whatever it is, special forces or infantryman . We didn't apply the Nato membeship to get here US or Nato troops, but to secure the availability of weapons during crises. We pondered pros and cons. Obvious drawback is that as a member we are bound to protect Baltic states, but securing the availability of weapons and military intelligence are pros.

I mentioned that Ukraine is forced to fight by one hand. If Russia attacks a Nato member it is obvious that Russian military bases will be attacked too. I don't believe that the US nuke-umbrella gives us safety. Unfortunately those big five in the end of the 60th cheated us to agree the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty spitting straight ahead on the paper

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 01:28 PM

The wartime strength of the Finnish army is 280000. Military training (6-11 months) has got 870000. We have in stock modern rifles for eveyone. All in all 2 million, but the count is limited by age and other reasons. Those 280000 are ready to take their position whatever it is, special forces or infantryman . We didn't apply the Nato membeship to get here US or Nato troops, but to secure the availability of weapons during crises. We pondered pros and cons. Obvious drawback is that as a member we are bound to protect Baltic states, but securing the availability of weapons and military intelligence are pros.

I mentioned that Ukraine is forced to fight by one hand. If Russia attacks a Nato member it is obvious that Russian military bases will be attacked too. I don't believe that the US nuke-umbrella gives us safety. Unfortunately those big five in the end of the 60th cheated us to agree the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty spitting straight ahead on the paper

Lemmy: These Eastern Europeans who (directly after end of Warsaw path) crawled under NATO .... have not the smallest clue about military system of Finland.

I'm very pleased to see that your (Finland's) politicians will not gonna change anything either now as you are joining to NATO.

There are no secrets behind of this either:

https://i.redd.it/nk1uzja3wvby.png

PS: Can you say how many (%) per age group of guys will earn this? My cousin was one of them :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Aliluutnantti_olkalaatta.svg/250px-Aliluutnantti_olkalaatta.svg.png

Blondie

03-29-2023, 01:44 PM

The wartime strength of the Finnish army is 280000. Military training (6-11 months) has got 870000. We have in stock modern rifles for eveyone. All in all 2 million, but the count is limited by age and other reasons. Those 280000 are ready to take their position whatever it is, special forces or infantryman . We didn't apply the Nato membeship to get here US or Nato troops, but to secure the availability of weapons during crises. We pondered pros and cons. Obvious drawback is that as a member we are bound to protect Baltic states, but securing the availability of weapons and military intelligence are pros.

I mentioned that Ukraine is forced to fight by one hand. If Russia attacks a Nato member it is obvious that Russian military bases will be attacked too. I don't believe that the US nuke-umbrella gives us safety. Unfortunately those big five in the end of the 60th cheated us to agree the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty spitting straight ahead on the paper

2 million my ass. Do you think 2 million people, 50% of finnish population is able to front service? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: So a spoiled rich rainbow kid became a mass murder rambo in a minute? :D Okay it makes no sense to talking with you, you have no idea about the real world.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 02:37 PM

There are no secrets behind of this either:

I have noticed that swedes are very good in one thing, this is the propaganda, a false pic of their country what they show for foreigners. 55% of swedes would die for Sweden? If this is really true, then why they dont do anything against these muslim gangs who terrorize the citizens? Simple question. Why they dont take their weapons to fight against muslims who are harrassing them?

In the Winter War the finnish army was less than 350000, (at this time finns were much more badass and patriotic) and now Lemmi fantasies about 2 million soldier. Sorry but i cant take you guys seriously...

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 02:53 PM

Lemmy: These Eastern Europeans who (directly after end of Warsaw path) crawled under NATO .... have not the smallest clue about military system of Finland.

I'm very pleased to see that your (Finland's) politicians will not gonna change anything either now as you are joining to NATO.

There are no secrets behind of this either:

https://i.redd.it/nk1uzja3wvby.png

PS: Can you say how many (%) per age group of guys will earn this? My cousin was one of them :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Aliluutnantti_olkalaatta.svg/250px-Aliluutnantti_olkalaatta.svg.png

I read about German numbers. Was it 20% saying that they would move abroad if they have to do something.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 02:58 PM

2 million my ass. Do you think 2 million people, 50% of finnish population is able to front service? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: So a spoiled rich rainbow kid became a mass murder rambo in a minute? :D Okay it makes no sense to talking with you, you have no idea about the real world.

No i didn't say that. It was at least 840000 using modern weapons with night vision devices, not old rusty AK47's or something as in Hungary.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 03:13 PM

I

In the Winter War the finnish army was less than 350000, (at this time finns were much more badass and patriotic) and now Lemmi fantasies about 2 million soldier. Sorry but i cant take you guys seriously...

During the Winter War the Finnish army was built of farmers and lumberjacks who had old rifles from the WWI. Some old tanks and maybe 20 old planes. Calling those planes fighters and Russians have died of laughing. No one sent us better arms. We got some Swedish volunteers and from UK some lords who tried to avoid dying of simple boredom at their home. We couldn't send them to the front because lords would have died of boredom also there and it would have been useless.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 03:29 PM

No i didn't say that. It was at least 840000 using modern weapons with night vision devices, not old rusty AK47's or something as in Hungary.

There is no 840000 soldier in Finland, i hope you dont belive this fairy tale and hungarian army dont use AK47, just saying. The Honvédség would defeat Finland anytime.

Annihilus

03-29-2023, 03:41 PM

Every Finn is born a soldier.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 03:46 PM

I have read about the finnish army a little bit, and this is just recruited army, not professional:
https://academic.oup.com/book/44441/chapter/376664369

This is a classic obsoleted army model from 19-20. century, based on such average peoples who are simple civilians with minimal military knowledge. The combat value of these units is on very low level. The finnish army did not participate missions/real battles in abroad either.
The hungarian army is professional, with the most modern weapons because of Orbáns military reform, the hungarian army (Honvédség) participated in several battles in various NATO missions they have real war experiences.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 03:48 PM

There is no 840000 soldier in Finland, i hope you dont belive this fairy tale and hungarian army dont use AK47, just saying.

In Finland we have a liability to military service. I don't need to believe it. Every man who is able to act in war has to serve 6-11 months in army. Old men don't belong to the reserve and a few percetage of young are not willing or have medical reasons to avoid service. It is not mandatory for women, but every year over 1000 of them get armed military training, just the same as men.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 03:52 PM

In Finland we have a liability to military service. I don't need to believe it. Every man who is able to act in war has to serve 6-11 months in army. Old men don't belong to the reserve and a few percetage of young are not willing or have medical reasons to avoid service. It is not mandatory for women, but every year over 1000 of them get armed military training, just the same as men.

I know, check my prev. comment. Thats existed in Hungary too, these recruited units are totally useless, professional army is much better.

Aldaris

03-29-2023, 03:53 PM

As said bit earlier, some people will not start wars.

It wouldn't end that well anyway, would it, hun? Sorry for being a part of ethnicites who can actually do something.
other than sitting on their asses under the Swedish rule.

Other words being bastards? (and with slavics exactly ... only because of yours high numbers .. like rats, cockroaches or leeches).

Shut your Lappish yap, bitch, before you compare my people to roaches and rats.

Plus we know where the population is growing. In Asia. This Chineses and Russians friendship is very cold one just a political one (everyone who knows history and is able to read humans body languages knows that). Not a real one. If their present common enemy (Western World) will one day lose its power ... we will see what Chineses will really think about Russians. Or rest of the Asians.

That may be. And then we will scourge them. Do not understimate us.

Aldaris

03-29-2023, 03:58 PM

I see no difference in England, France, Spain and Portugal taking Americas from Native Americans and Russians taking Siberia from Native Siberians.

This is English section, so write in English

Me neither and I'm proud of the both. :-) Those teritorries are our now. And so it will be.

Alenka

03-29-2023, 04:00 PM

I see no difference in England, France, Spain and Portugal taking Americas from Native Americans and Russians taking Siberia from Native Siberians.

And I see no difference in Finns taking Sápmi from the Saami.
Get off your high horse.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:00 PM

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 04:01 PM

I have noticed that swedes are very good in one thing, this is the propaganda, a false pic of their country what they show for foreigners. 55% of swedes would die for Sweden? If this is really true, then why they dont do anything against these muslim gangs who terrorize the citizens? Simple question. Why they dont take their weapons to fight against muslims who are harrassing them?

In the Winter War the finnish army was less than 350000, (at this time finns were much more badass and patriotic) and now Lemmi fantasies about 2 million soldier. Sorry but i cant take you guys seriously...

First of all, I think I know Finns better than you do (also what comes to WWII era). I knew more already at 7 years old than you can ever know. Not to talking about forum's ''old man'' Lemmy.

Secondly not all ''soldiers'' needs to be front line. Finland basically educate every man to fight, and can take them from reserve as long as they brief. If the enemy is Russia even those who can not walk will join. Women will help as well. So did my granny (as small Lotta) and so will do I if the war ever hit against Finland (or against Sweden). I have been trained for helping (nursing etc.) in possible crises.

I have mentioned that two of my ancestors died while Tali-Ihantala Battle. Other was officer (a great man), his unit visited widow after the war giving her the medals they/others had applied him. Another was just a boy. Wants to guess his age?

Dušan

03-29-2023, 04:01 PM

Shut your Lappish yap, bitch, before you compare my people to roaches and rats.

This scum was curing his Russophobic frustrations by supporting Albanians in Kosovo against Serbia.

Ahtisaari was a United Nations special envoy for Kosovo, charged with organizing the Kosovo status process negotiations, aimed at resolving a long-running dispute in Kosovo, which later declared its independence from Serbia in 2008.

Martti Ahtisaari was born in Viipuri, Finland (now Vyborg, Russia).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martti_Ahtisaari

By the way, I have read, that Finland in filling with Somalians pretty fast. :)

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:01 PM

Aldaris

03-29-2023, 04:04 PM

And I see no difference in Finns taking Sápmi from the Saami.
Get off your high horse.

Like there's any difference between them. They all look the same to me.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:06 PM

And I see no difference in Finns taking Sápmi from the Saami.
Get off your high horse.

You are right, but a part a Finns were here before Sasmis. The bable about Saamis being aboriginals is politics.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 04:07 PM

And I see no difference in Finns taking Sápmi from the Saami.
Get off your high horse.

Samis were not the first humans in the area of Finland (after last Ice Age)..

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:08 PM

Samis were not the first humans in the area of Finland (after last Ice Age)..

Not even from the early Iron Age

Blondie

03-29-2023, 04:09 PM

Of course soldiers can't train in real war, because we have not wars every day, but Finnish men practise every year in drills.

Ukrainian men cope very well without 6-11 months practicing in drills. So you think that more practicing makes people worse?

In Ukraine the war has started in 2014, when the ukrainian government attacked their own citizens by weapons, so they had war experience before this russian attack. Btw this mandatory military service for citizens is good idea, but without professional army and war experiences your army is still weak. Sorry but this is the reality.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:10 PM

This scum was curing his Russophobic frustrations by supporting Albanians in Kosovo against Serbia.

Ahtisaari was a United Nations special envoy for Kosovo, charged with organizing the Kosovo status process negotiations, aimed at resolving a long-running dispute in Kosovo, which later declared its independence from Serbia in 2008.

Martti Ahtisaari was born in Viipuri, Finland (now Vyborg, Russia).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martti_Ahtisaari

By the way, I have read, that Finland in filling with Somalians pretty fast. :)

Ahtisaari has Norwegian roots.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 04:15 PM

First of all, I think I know Finns better than you do (also what comes to WWII era). I knew more already at 7 years old than you can ever know. Not to talking about forum's ''old man'' Lemmy.

Secondly not all ''soldiers'' needs to be front line. Finland basically educate every man to fight, and can take them from reserve as long as they brief. If the enemy is Russia even those who can not walk will join. Women will help as well. So did my granny (as small Lotta) and so will do I if the war ever hit against Finland (or against Sweden). I have been trained for helping (nursing etc.) in possible crises.

I have mentioned that two of my ancestors died while Tali-Ihantala Battle. Other was officer (a great man), his unit visited widow after the war giving her the medals they/others had applied him. Another was just a boy. Wants to guess his age?

And my ancestors have fought and died in such places like Stalingrad or Harkov. Is this an argument or what? The finnish army has no modern war experience, and this army is ot even professional just recruited.
Modern "war" happens in the finnish migrant ghettos where these muslims beat/rape finns very easly.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:16 PM

In Ukraine the war has started in 2014, when the ukrainian government attacked their own citizens by weapons, so they had war experience before this russian attack. Btw this mandatory military service for citizens is good idea, but without professional army and war experiences your army is still weak. Sorry but this is the reality.

And you think that they have great time while camping in forests and cities. The cadre is about 30000 including all armed forces.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 04:17 PM

It wouldn't end that well anyway, would it, hun? Sorry for being a part of ethnicites who can actually do something.
other than sitting on their asses under the Swedish rule.
LOL ... my Finnish Swedes side were exactly those who ruled Finns ... as moving from Sweden to Finland. My family still ows the same lands.

Shut your Lappish yap, bitch, before you compare my people to roaches and rats.
Based on your posts; you earned that.

That may be. And then we will scourge them. Do not understimate us.
Time will tell. Based on world population growth I would not put lots of money for that.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 04:22 PM

And you think that they have great time while camping in forests and cities. The cadre is about 30000 including all armed forces.

Look, according to this article, although the finnish army has modern weapons but its not professional just recruited. As i said this obsoleted army modern existed in Hungary too, i know what is it, and this is useless against a professional army like the russian.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:22 PM

Sorry I have to quit. I promised myself to be here ten minutes in a day and now I have been over an hour.

Alenka

03-29-2023, 04:25 PM

You are right, but a part a Finns were here before Sasmis. The bable about Saamis being aboriginals is politics.
:rolleyes:
Actually it's the bable about Finns being there before the Saamis that is all about politics.
100% copium.

Samis were not the first humans in the area of Finland (after last Ice Age)..
:rolleyes:
Keep doing whatever mental gymnastics it takes to absolve your people of guilt.
Pathetic.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:26 PM

Look, according to this article, although the finnish army has modern weapons but its not professional just recruited. As i said this obsoleted army modern existed in Hungary too, i know what is it, and this is useless against a professional army like the russian.

Every military expert I have read says that countries who left the military service model, which is in Finland, now regret it.

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:28 PM

:rolleyes:
Actually it's the bable about Finns being there before the Saamis that is all about politics.
100% copium.

:
Pathetic.

I have to quit so shut up :). If you read linguistic and genetic research you will find it differently.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 04:30 PM

Every military expert I have read says that countries who left the military service model, which is in Finland, now regret it.

Yes, and i also share this opinion. The problem is Finland has no professional army like in other country just this recruited units, this is a problem. Finland would be much better with professional and recruited (B) army at same time. This model is exist for example in USA.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 04:31 PM

And my ancestors have fought and died in such places like Stalingrad or Harkov. Is this an argument or what? The finnish army has no modern war experience, and this army is ot even professional just recruited.
Modern "war" happens in the finnish migrant ghettos where these muslims beat/rape finns very easly.

And how old they were (as you did not understand whole question).

Not many army (luckily have real life experiences). What all do ... learn about world crises. Finns definitely too. Everyone agrees that Russian fights pretty badly in Afghanistan and Ukraine (and doing the same mistake time after time). So sometimes experience does not help much ... if the system is both very corrupted and too totalitarian. Wrong persons will end to top positions.

Migrants have not raped any Finnish soldier. Neither Sweden's.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 04:36 PM

Yes, and i also share this opinion. The problem is Finland has no professional army like in other country just this recruited units, this is a problem. Finland would be much better with professional and recruited (B) army at same time. This model is exist for example in USA.

So you think Finland has no soldiers who will get their salaries/earnings from the military?
:jump0000:

Blondie

03-29-2023, 04:39 PM

And how old they were (as you did not understand whole question).

Okay we can compare the finnish and hungarian army during the WW2. Hungarians have fought until the last man, the hungarian government recruited childs and women too to fight against soviets. Finns capitulated very quickly at the end.

Migrants raped/attacked finnish peoples in general and the society dont do anything about it. When hungarians were harassed by gypsies in a village, then some hungarian took their guns and maked a bloodbath among gypsies in 2008-2009.

Benyzero

03-29-2023, 04:41 PM

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zUWxVM2qfyw/XsrS-6AEJDI/AAAAAAAAKRE/WHVtWO36ZzwJpnp8YLaM1LgeBlCqFzR4gCK4BGAsYHg/w640-h362/gy.PNG

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 04:42 PM

:rolleyes:
Actually it's the bable about Finns being there before the Saamis that is all about politics.
100% copium.

:rolleyes:
Keep doing whatever mental gymnastics it takes to absolve your people of guilt.
Pathetic.

Sorry to say but the first evidence of humans in Finland are almost 10 000years old (very soon after the last Ice Age) ... and those people did not talk any Finno-Ugric languages (like Samis). There are evidence about that too. I doubt they either were N haplogroup humans ....

Lemminkäinen

03-29-2023, 04:44 PM

So you think Finland has no soldiers who will get their salaries/earnings from the military?
:jump0000:

I already told her that we have 30000 professionals. It is not comparable to the Nato numbers because for exampke our border guard is not in military budget in Finland. In Nato countries all military is count in one sum.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 04:49 PM

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zUWxVM2qfyw/XsrS-6AEJDI/AAAAAAAAKRE/WHVtWO36ZzwJpnp8YLaM1LgeBlCqFzR4gCK4BGAsYHg/w640-h362/gy.PNG

He is a wise gypsie. Rare exception.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 04:53 PM

Okay we can compare the finnish and hungarian army during the WW2. Hungarians have fought until the last man, the hungarian government recruited childs and women too to fight against soviets. Finns capitulated very quickly at the end.

Migrants raped/attacked finnish peoples in general and the society dont do anything about it. When hungarians were harassed by gypsies in a village, then some hungarian took their guns and maked a bloodbath among gypsies in 2008-2009.

Finns never capituled. If they would have done so ... they would have faced just the same fate as 3 Baltics countries. You should know Stalin and Russians bit better already.

Finland was very few countries in Europe that were never occupied by anybody while WWII and only one among the losers/Axis powers.

You!? LOL, you like Orban! You were shits vs Finns!

You put it general as you could not say that ''any better''. Muslims have attacked only against weak people. Not against those who would fight behalf of the country.

Finnish Swede

03-29-2023, 05:19 PM

Lemminkäinen ... my mom just called that there is an election debate going on Finland's MTV (3 biggest parties)? I will try (via internet) if I can see/follow that.

This debate (TA) here is much more boring than that (I'm pretty sure about that ). Lets move to follow that...

Aldaris

03-29-2023, 05:25 PM

LOL ... my Finnish Swedes side were exactly those who ruled Finns ... as moving from Sweden to Finland. My family still ows the same lands.

Hun. Iberians and Slavs are ruling half of the world. We really don't care about some bog dwellers from just below the Santa's workshop.

From my perspective, this little banter of yours seems like kids exchanging peanuts for gummy bears in front of a pre-school front gate.

You are irrelevant.

Based on your posts; you earned that.

You mean this one, you poor thing?

Finns are not Slavic indeed. Finns aren't the conquerors. Never been, never will be. While you have been living in your frozen wasteland, we have been busy overtaking half of the Asia.

Call me a roach all day you wan't. It won't change anything. :-)

Time will tell. Based on world population growth I would not put lots of money for that.

You better not put money on anything. A honest advice, my Scando darling.

Benyzero

03-29-2023, 05:46 PM

He is a wise gypsie. Rare exception.

brother abraham

rothaer

03-29-2023, 10:17 PM

(...) I just do not know what Hungarians won by this 6 months ''theater'' ... Finns are simply, honest & straight people with elephant's memory. Treat them ok, and they are very harmless. Treat them badly, and they are pretty bad asses.

Yeah, they maybe better should've said no. In both countries' interests.

Do you think that it improves Finland's security compared to now when in the future the USA can't stand the temptation to provoke Russia with installing various military equipment in both Estonia and Finland close to the outskirts of Petersburg (figuratively)? After all sucess for Finland in the past of finding a stable situation, is it meaningful to ally with such a hooligan that for sure will use the new possibilities of Finland being a Nato member?

Blondie

03-29-2023, 11:26 PM

Finns never capituled. If they would have done so ... they would have faced just the same fate as 3 Baltics countries. You should know Stalin and Russians bit better already.

Stop lying:

The worsening situation in 1944 had led to Finnish president Risto Ryti giving Germany his personal guarantee that Finland would not negotiate peace with the Soviet Union for as long as he was the president. In exchange, Germany delivered weapons to the Finns. After the Soviet offensive was halted, however, Ryti resigned. Due to the war, elections could not be held, and therefore the Parliament selected the Marshal of Finland Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, the Finnish commander-in-chief, as president and charged him with negotiating a peace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_in_World_War_II

Finns wanted to peace with Soviet Union instead of continue the war.

Finland was very few countries in Europe that were never occupied by anybody while WWII and only one among the losers/Axis powers.

Because finns were cowards to fight against soviets at the end, and they voluntarily gived many area to soviets.

You put it general as you could not say that ''any better''. Muslims have attacked only against weak people. Not against those who would fight behalf of the country.

Muslims rape your nation because youre too coward to fight just like at the end of WW2.

Blondie

03-29-2023, 11:35 PM

Yeah, they maybe better should've said no. In both countries' interests.

Do you think that it improves Finland's security compared to now when in the future the USA can't stand the temptation to provoke Russia with installing various military equipment in both Estonia and Finland close to the outskirts of Petersburg (figuratively)? After all sucess for Finland in the past of finding a stable situation, is it meaningful to ally with such a hooligan that for sure will use the new possibilities of Finland being a Nato member?

FS is hardcore russophobic and slav hater.

Loki

03-30-2023, 07:02 AM

As said bit earlier, some people will not start wars.

Other words being bastards? (and with slavics exactly ... only because of yours high numbers .. like rats, cockroaches or leeches).

This is a new low even for you. Pure crass Nazi-style anti-Slavic racism. Like in the 1930s. You should be ashamed of yourself, you know better (or do you?). You are obviously fed with a daily diet of anti Russian hate propaganda by your media and government.

rothaer

03-30-2023, 07:43 AM

FS is hardcore russophobic and slav hater.

In Sweden kind of ever since there are obsessive (which is a rare condition for Swedes btw.) security worries in connection with Russia. This predates not just the Cold War but also WWII and WWI. It will reach back till 1809, when Sweden lost Finland to Russia. If not farther back even. Swedes seriously believe that Russia strives for conquering Sweden, regardless of that there was never in history an attempt by Russians for conquering today's Sweden area - also not in WWI and WWII. This collective irrationalism of Swedes was also promoted by the Finnish Winter War (1940) and by Soviet submarines violating the border and partly ending up at the Swedish coast (1980s).

Mejgusu

03-30-2023, 08:28 AM

https://i.redd.it/nk1uzja3wvby.png

It’s good if a lot of people would fight for their own country, but only in the case of self defense. Aggressive militarism doesn’t belong to the 21st century, big powers like China, Usa or Russia just have human resources, war is a terrible thing. The reason why western Europe has low numbers is that they are smart, not coward, they learned. I hope this war will end before everything escalates.

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 04:24 PM

Stop lying:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_in_World_War_II

Finns wanted to peace with Soviet Union instead of continue the war.

Yes, Finns wanted peace (saying even more: Finns wanted to live in peace from the beginning, that just was not offered to them). BUT Finns never surrendered. So it is you who lied like always.

Because finns were cowards to fight against soviets at the end, and they voluntarily gived many area to soviets.
Finns paid (unfairly) about WWII. If you are wrong side (Axis), shit happened. But again if Finland would have surrendered their fates would have been exactly the same as with the 3 Baltic stages. Those became occupied and they surely also surrendered.

Muslims rape your nation because youre too coward to fight just like at the end of WW2.
You mix too two things ''bio sexul'' .... During WWII it was legal (for Finns) to fight. Supported (even demanded) by leadership. Today what you opposite try to say is illegal. For some that means something. Of course not for corrupted countries people or those who are bad to follow all kinds of orders / are badly organized people.

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 04:31 PM

FS is hardcore russophobic and slav hater.

At least I'm not a coat turner. You have opposite done 180degrees turn here just in 5 years. A weather vane.

What I know (or believe ... if you like that more?) will stay as long as I live (and that knowledge will be transported to the future generations).

Blondie

03-30-2023, 04:33 PM

Yes, Finns wanted peace (saying even more: Finns wanted to live in peace from the beginning, that just was not offered to them). BUT Finns never surrendered. So it is you who lied like always.

Finns paid (unfairly) about WWII. If you are wrong side (Axis), shit happened. But again if Finland would have surrendered their fates would have been exactly the same as with the 3 Baltic stages. Those became occupied and they surely also surrendered.

You mix too two things ''bio sexul'' .... During WWII it was legal (for Finns) to fight. Supported (even demanded) by leadership. Today what you opposite try to say is illegal. For some that means something. Of course not for corrupted countries people or those who are bad to follow all kinds of orders / are badly organized people.

If you give up the war just because you dont wanna fight thats called capitulation/surrender you mentally retarded. Finns were coward to fight, its not surprising they are just fishers and hunters from wood houses, so they willingly gived up Karelia and betrayed the local finnish population, dropped them to soviets to save Helsinki. This is what happened.

Blondie

03-30-2023, 04:35 PM

At least I'm not a coat turner. You have opposite done 180degrees turn here just in 5 years. A weather vane.

What I know (or believe ... if you like that more?) will stay as long as I live (and that knowledge will be transported to the future generations).

To the new muslim citizens who will be the majority? I doubt they do care about your comments.

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 04:41 PM

This is a new low even for you. Pure crass Nazi-style anti-Slavic racism. Like in the 1930s. You should be ashamed of yourself, you know better (or do you?). You are obviously fed with a daily diet of anti Russian hate propaganda by your media and government.

You should read the western mass media bit more.

Western liberals/globalists (which you think?) could not write/say anything I feel inside. For them, all is pure politics.

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 04:52 PM

If you give up the war just because you dont wanna fight thats called capitulation/surrender you mentally retarded. Finns were coward to fight, its not surprising they are just fishers and hunters from wood houses, so they willingly gived up Karelia and betrayed the local finnish population, dropped them to soviets to save Helsinki. This is what happened.

Finland's soldiers stop fought only as Russians had also signed the peace treaty (organized by UK/Churchill). It was the same with Winter War as with Continuation War. Not before. Rússians forces were never inside of the present border line. Finns fought as long as needed (even 14 years old boys). But if Finns were cowards, then I can not even find the words to describe Hungarians. That is out of scale.

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 05:01 PM

To the new muslim citizens who will be the majority? I doubt they do care about your comments.

I meant my own familyline.

And I do not care theirs (muslims). Do you?

Just asking: Do you think that muslims will love Slavics or Hungarians?

Lemminkäinen

03-30-2023, 05:06 PM

Mejgusu. Germany has learnt that it is insignificant in a global meaning. Pay penalties for this and that, let your gaz pipes come destroyed. Be quietly and pay. Real wisdom. But the question rises. Why do all those things?

Mejgusu

03-30-2023, 05:20 PM

@Lemminkäinen German economy is probably the only reason why Europe didn’t end in meaninglessness, politically we are indeed insignificant. I think Merkel had the ability and power for world politic, regardless what people were thinking about her. But I don’t really understand your other sentences, what do you mean?

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 05:21 PM

I so they willingly gived up Karelia and betrayed the local finnish population, dropped them to soviets to save Helsinki. This is what happened.

You are a comic. Depate with the person(s) who have lived in that country.

Those people who lived in Finland's Karelia (areas which ended to Sovjet Union after WWII) ... moved to live in Finland. Read my lips: Finland left nobody behind! The rest of the Finns gave them lands and places to live.

Shortly: You know nothing about this topic and you are just making yourself a fool here.

Hektor12

03-30-2023, 05:31 PM

You have opposite done 180degrees turn here just in 5 years.

You against young people learning from their experiences as the time went, correcting their mistakes, fixing their faulty lines?

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 05:43 PM

You against young people learning from their experiences as the time went, correcting their mistakes, fixing their faulty lines?

Of course not totally, but making 180 degrees turn .... will show that person has either been naive/stupid earlier or naive/stupid now or perhaps naive/stupid all the time. This kind of person's own reasons to believe something bases on very light matters/facts (= weak to all kinds of populisms and manipulations).

The young adults (like her and I as we joined to TA) should already know better than that.

Hektor12

03-30-2023, 05:49 PM

Of course not totally, but making 180 degrees turn .... will show that person has either been naive/stupid earlier or naive/stupid now or perhaps naive/stupid all the time.

Or maybe time changed, world changed beyond recognition? For example in early 2000s NATO membership for Russia was on the table. In early 2020s, NATO fighting Russia..

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 06:09 PM

Or maybe time changed, world changed beyond recognition? For example in early 2000s NATO membership for Russia was on the table. In early 2020s, NATO fighting Russia..

I joined TA 2017 and she 2017/2018 (this is second account).

PS: I have a clear opinion of who has changed more; NATO or Russia (while the last 20 years period). How about you?

Loki

03-30-2023, 07:18 PM

You should read the western mass media bit more.

Western liberals/globalists (which you think?) could not write/say anything I feel inside. For them, all is pure politics.

I read it every day, and it still makes me furious every time I read a lie.

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 07:37 PM

I read it every day,

Great.

I do not read those that much. I just need to bring a candles to the soldiers's graves or read about historical texts like below (Church of Salois) 1713-1721.

https://images.cdn.yle.fi/image/upload/w_1920,h_997,ar_1.9252548217773438,dpr_1,c_fill/q_auto:eco,f_auto,fl_lossy/v1617021235/39-7895876061c8c04bdfd

BTW: This is a great book. Written by historian professor of University of Jyväskylä Finland.
https://images.liquidblox.com/60642c1b73adf8394ab2319a/60642c2a8be25a37aeccdb27/originals/4a9197d1636b99b8f5a114f442132a5ee388516b5286ad321c 26a5b745857f320319f6d903a41be59af909bf3d93658eb224 2e2a3482f4abd81007524c2aab72/paholaisensota.jpg

Hektor12

03-30-2023, 08:09 PM

How about you?

Is it possible to keep my position outside of this? I mean, isnt it understandable after watching all this rage for already approved membership, myself being in bigger danger for obvious reasons.. (: I want to look like only interested in definitions and objectiveness.

But as an individual i can say i would defend Finland to the last drop of my blood. Sweden? Maybe not so hard but im positive for ethnic Swedish. Being avid gamer, i have Swedish friends from childhood and plus some from school in Norway, since theyre easy to find there. If they ask for help, i would come of course.

Aldaris

03-30-2023, 08:13 PM

FS is hardcore russophobic and slav hater.

She also hates Spaniards for reasons unknown to me. From ever since she has joined.

Loki

03-30-2023, 08:38 PM

She also hates Spaniards for reasons unknown to me. From ever since she has joined.

It must be a very miserable life to hate so many people...

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 08:48 PM

It must be a very miserable life to hate so many people...

Oh do not worry. I can carry that load; even easily. It also gives some motivation for life. Besides this forum (incl. you) tends to hate lots of people. All those bad globalist and leftist people out there.

Finnish Swede

03-30-2023, 09:06 PM

PS: This was a great day :)

The Turkish parliament voted on Finland's NATO membership today, Thursday, March 30.
The membership was unanimously ratified by a vote of 276–0

Blondie

03-30-2023, 11:39 PM

You are a comic. Depate with the person(s) who have lived in that country.

Those people who lived in Finland's Karelia (areas which ended to Sovjet Union after WWII) ... moved to live in Finland. Read my lips: Finland left nobody behind! The rest of the Finns gave them lands and places to live.

Shortly: You know nothing about this topic and you are just making yourself a fool here.

Youre the only fool here. Yes you guys betrayed these karelian finns, because finns were too coward to fight and after that karelian finns had to leave their own ancient home, it was a forced thing. If you want peace because you dont wanna fight thats called capitulation in a very pathetic way.
Hungarians have fought to the last man and last settlement against the soviets, Hungary has 1500 years old military history, the hungarian army participated in such battles what determined the future of this continent for example against mongols, ottomans. At this time you lived in peaceful life in the fozen swamp in the wood houses. Hungary is such military nation like prussian or japanese. In the hungarian history the peoples didnt really know such words like capitulation. In 56' the soviets defeated them by weapons, revolutionaries have fought to the last street. I already mentioned the WW2 when the government recruited kids and women too, in the WW1 Hungary was the last european central power and they continued the war against Entente after 1918 too. But you can check the ottoman wars, Rákóczi's anti-habsburg uprising etc. The war continued to the last men in every case without making peace. In the hungarian history there was only one general who capitulated, thats happened in 1849, his name was Artúr Görgey, because the hungarian army have fought against Austria and Russia at same time, se they had no chance. He did not want to follow this "victory or die" old tradition, and he capitulated. Görgey now the biggest traitor in the hungarian history because of it. The hungarian and finnish military history are totally incomparable, and we are not on same level.

Blondie

03-30-2023, 11:47 PM

She also hates Spaniards for reasons unknown to me. From ever since she has joined.

FS is a good example when someone has no any civilizational background and her only pride is hair color and hating on others.

Aila

03-31-2023, 03:30 AM

Nah. Nostalgia aside, we Karelians (and the Saami I am related to, who also have expressed this) have had a good life in Finland.
And like I have mentioned, I was never taught hatred nor bitterness towards Russians.

Besides, isn’t the Orthodox view of the devil being “the malicious one, which divides, severs, destroys any togetherness, brings down and reduces every being to the outermost solitude”.
Also coming from this Lappish Shamanic background which is about ‘nondual oneness’ and interconnectedness - relatedness of all creation, we agreed with the Orthodox Church. Holy Spirit unites – devil divides

Shut your Lappish yap, bitch,

I doubt SF has any Lapp relatives or knows about Lappish heritage within - to speak from ….

Warning - going in the left field ….
Sometimes I have wondered if some folk with their warmongering speeches here have some deeper psychological issues, which are then projected onto this Russia – Ukraine (side of God vs side of satan) war.

I haven’t been into rap, but Ren and his lymes disease psychosis (similar to schizophrenia and bipolar disorder) changed that with his disturbing but compelling performance.
So, now I am listening to Ren’s influences, like NF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBS4ZFycjnM&ab_channel=Star

But since I listened to it so intently, there is an after echo and now I cannot help but read these for and against war/army-magnificence stories without hearing them like rap expressions of internal psychological dialogue duels.

Maybe rap has some therapeutic usages?

Aila

03-31-2023, 03:35 AM

As for NATO - Since I now don't live there, I feel I have no say, really.

Blondie

03-31-2023, 03:42 AM

I joined TA 2017 and she 2017/2018 (this is second account).

PS: I have a clear opinion of who has changed more; NATO or Russia (while the last 20 years period). How about you?

This is not my second account dummy. I have only one account, this.

Blondie

03-31-2023, 03:46 AM

Or maybe time changed, world changed beyond recognition? For example in early 2000s NATO membership for Russia was on the table. In early 2020s, NATO fighting Russia..

FS is just an average brainwashed swede with globalist agenda. To be honest i dont care her russophobia, because she has no time to care about muslims who will be the majority in Sweden. We will see her in burqa soon.

Vasag

03-31-2023, 03:49 AM

This is the best news I've heard all year! And you know what this means for us in Armenia?

It means we're gonna have the fastest internet speeds in the world! Finland is known for having some of the fastest internet in the world, and now that they're part of NATO, we're gonna get access to all their latest technology! I mean, think about it! No more buffering, no more lagging! It's gonna be like lightning!

And that's not all! This NATO membership is also gonna make fast food so much cheaper! Finland has some of the best fast food around, and now that they're part of NATO, we're gonna get all their best recipes! I'm talking about reindeer burgers, salmon wraps, and these amazing Finnish fries that are just out of this world! We're gonna be living the good life, man!

And if that's not enough, get this: it's also gonna lead to legalized dog fighting in Armenia! I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out! Finland has this amazing breed of dogs called Finnish Spitz, and they're just perfect for dog fighting! And now that Finland is part of NATO, they're gonna share their knowledge and expertise with us! We're gonna be the dog fighting capital of the world!

Aila

03-31-2023, 04:07 AM

Blondie

03-31-2023, 04:16 AM

Sorry, I really cannot help this now.
Was that the bipolar manic side rapping – lol.

This is just chatGP.

Dick

03-31-2023, 04:19 AM

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 05:17 AM

This is not my second account dummy. I have only one account, this.

Your education/civilization shows up as debating about topics you know nothing.

What comes to you; is all the same to me. By then, you have changed your user name and asked Loki etc. to clean your Thump Down records.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 05:30 AM

Youre the only fool here. Yes you guys betrayed these karelian finns, because finns were too coward to fight and after that karelian finns had to leave their own ancient home, it was a forced thing. If you want peace because you dont wanna fight thats called capitulation in a very pathetic way.
These you are called ''Karelian Finns'' (sorry; Harkonnen would laugh now) fought just the same as Western Finns, Southern Finns, Northern Finns, Samis, Swedish Finns .... there was only one group who did not participate the war. Gypsies.

Nobody forced them to leave. They could have stayed, but nobody was that stupid. For example, they knew the fates of some Estonians who had fought in the army of Finland. Do you think that Finland's leadership had none from there? Vyborg was 3. the biggest country. So was many soldiers like him:

https://scontent-arn2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/18766782_1925151111062055_11157141614179440_o.jpg? _nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=pSaT0YmREW8AX81sb6D&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-2.xx&oh=00_AfDuQhY8HjO_bItSxLLxSdQ9-Ng6VERis6FHLxLI_Euu-g&oe=644DDF22

Hungarians have fought to the last man and last settlement against the soviets, To the last man? Now why there are still Hungarians living 70 - 80 years later? Should not be.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 05:49 AM

FS is just an average brainwashed swede with globalist agenda. To be honest i dont care her russophobia, because she has no time to care about muslims who will be the majority in Sweden. We will see her in burqa soon.

Wisfull thinking my dear (my lifetime anyway).

It also seems to be that you think that you live in some kind of bubble where rest of the world will not influence. Believe me, if the Western Europe will collapse (your words, muslims will live here), you will follow soon after us ...

Blondie

03-31-2023, 06:20 AM

Your education/civilization shows up as debating about topics you know nothing.

What is your civilization level? Your only pride is your hair color nothing else, because your country/ethnicity did not do any significant thing in the history.

What comes to you; is all the same to me. By then, you have changed your user name and asked Loki etc. to clean your Thump Down records.

Changing username doesnt mean i had other accounts. My first user name was "Kis Kócos" after that "Germanin" for a short time and now "Blondie".

Nobody forced them to leave. They could have stayed, but nobody was that stupid.

Is it stupidism to stay their ancient home to keep the native finnish culture in Karelia? What a dumb argument.

To the last man? Now why there are still Hungarians living 70 - 80 years later? Should not be.

It means to the last soldier dummy.

It also seems to be that you think that you live in some kind of bubble where rest of the world will not influence. Believe me, if the Western Europe will collapse (your words, muslims will live here), you will follow soon after us ...

No, because Hungary has tons of experience to fight against muslim, you just need a history book to read about ottoman-hungarian wars.

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 10:17 AM

PS: This was a great day :)

The Turkish parliament voted on Finland's NATO membership today, Thursday, March 30.
The membership was unanimously ratified by a vote of 276–0

Tomorrow I wouldn't have believed.

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 10:30 AM

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 10:43 AM

These you are called ''Karelian Finns'' (sorry; Harkonnen would laugh now) fought just the same as Western Finns, Southern Finns, Northern Finns, Samis, Swedish Finns .... there was only one group who did not participate the war. Gypsies.

Nobody forced them to leave. They could have stayed, but nobody was that stupid. For example, they knew the fates of some Estonians who had fought in the army of Finland. Do you think that Finland's leadership had none from there? Vyborg was 3. the biggest country. So was many soldiers like him:

https://scontent-arn2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/18766782_1925151111062055_11157141614179440_o.jpg? _nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=pSaT0YmREW8AX81sb6D&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-2.xx&oh=00_AfDuQhY8HjO_bItSxLLxSdQ9-Ng6VERis6FHLxLI_Euu-g&oe=644DDF22

To the last man? Now why there are still Hungarians living 70 - 80 years later? Should not be.

My friends' Jewish grandfathers and fathers fought too. One of them was awarded by the Nazi Iron Cross for bravery in battle, but he refused to receive it. Yeah, I support the global Jewish conspiracy.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 10:55 AM

What is your civilization level? Your only pride is your hair color nothing else, because your country/ethnicity did not do any significant thing in the history.
You seemed to forget (just as it fits you) that I'm mainly Swedish.

Changing username doesnt mean i had other accounts. My first user name was "Kis Kócos" after that "Germanin" for a short time and now "Blondie".
And how about those Thumb downs of yours? Normally one can not get a rid of them. I (if any) will know that well enough (I even beat your records by one night).

Opposite to me; looks like you went to ''dad'', as a ''braive Hungarian person''.

Is it stupidism to stay their ancient home to keep the native finnish culture in Karelia? What a dumb argument.
It is pity that Harkonnen is not anymore here. He could teach you something (as his family partly came from that area).

Anyway; Karelian culture? How much you even know about it? Traditional foods for example, ever eat any of those or even seen one in real? Believe me; there were enough of those (living in Russia). If/as that culture has disappeared .... for that we can thank someone else. Vyborg was the most international city in Finland before WWII.

It means to the last soldier dummy.
Were there lots of those ''brave Hungarian men'' who were not soldiers? In Finland all men (more a less all who could walk ... or make babies if you wish) were soldiers ... all the way to some 14 years boys.

No, because Hungary has tons of experience to fight against muslim, you just need a history book to read about ottoman-hungarian wars.
Next time they will overpass away you have never seen.
And if Western Europe is lost, they will arrive in more than one direction.

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 11:11 AM

FS don't blame her. Hungary has a great past. I remember also how Finnish commies praised Hungary and especially dachas at Balaton to be the best thing after Sovjet Union.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 11:22 AM

My friends' Jewish grandfathers and fathers fought too. One of them was awarded by the Nazi Iron Cross for bravery in battle, but he refused to receive it. Yeah, I support the global Jewish conspiracy.

Right, I think gypsies were the only group in Finland who did not fight.

Lemmy; I guess that was partly linked to the reason, why Finns were not too interested to transport Finland's jewish people to Germany. Another was that; even as Finns ended to side of Axis; they (via their leadership like Mannerheim) were never Nazis. It was just for survaiving.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 11:28 AM

FS don't blame her. Hungary has a great past. I remember also how Finnish commies praised Hungary and especially dachas at Balaton to be the best thing after Sovjet Union.

https://youtu.be/D_U_dcMbB1Q

**************************************

The most comic have been those idealistic Finns who moved to Soviet Union after WWI. Some even returned from the USA to move to this ''new utopia''. As Stalin rose to power, we heard them no more ...
But who knows; maybe that was needed? Present Finns are pretty wise/logical people. Any kind of brainwashing or pure populism (right or left) will not work with them easily.

Aila

03-31-2023, 11:50 AM

Is it stupidism to stay their ancient home to keep the native finnish culture in Karelia? What a dumb argument.

I think there is more in this picture, than what was left of my family’s ancestral homestead:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Muolaa_church_ruins.jpg

Up north the picture was not that pretty either:
https://i0.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Rd2.jpg?resize=768%2C549&ssl=1

In Finland we had more of a chance for continuity.
It seems that some of those survivors who did stay behind - later turned bitter, but I cannot speak for them, as to why - they were brought up in Russian culture.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 11:55 AM

I think there is more in this picture, than what was left of my family’s ancestral homestead:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Muolaa_church_ruins.jpg

Up north the picture was not that pretty either:
https://i0.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Rd2.jpg?resize=768%2C549&ssl=1

In Finland we had more of a chance for continuity.
It seems that some of those survivors who did stay behind - later turned bitter, but I cannot speak for them, as to why - they were brought up in Russian culture.

Can you follow the lyrics of this?

https://youtu.be/is5Hl-xQpRo

Aila

03-31-2023, 12:19 PM

Can you follow the lyrics of this?

https://youtu.be/is5Hl-xQpRo

No.
Although my (I trust ½ Saami ½ Veps-Karelian) grandmother spoke another language, which I still do not know what it was. I only heard her speak it once with her (also) ½ Saami cousin. She totally hid her Saami side, like many did and only later in life I learned about it.

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 12:21 PM

Right, I think gypsies were the only group in Finland who did not fight.

Lemmy; I guess that was partly linked to the reason, why Finns were not too interested to transport Finland's jewish people to Germany. Another was that; even as Finns ended to side of Axis; they (via their leadership like Mannerheim) were never Nazis. It was just for survaiving.

Actually the answer is simple. Almost with no exception Finnish leaders felt deep disgust against German Nazis and German administration. A known exception was Eljas Erkko, the owner of the biggest Finnish newspaper, who, as a foreign minister led Finland to the Winter War. Of course Stalin started it, but I can't avoid thinking that Erkko was misled by Hitler after the secret Molotov-Rippentrop pact. He was a nazi-minded, maybe the only Finnish leader. Today the same media is the most woke media in Finland.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 12:50 PM

No.
Although my (I trust ½ Saami ½ Veps-Karelian) grandmother spoke another language, which I still do not know what it was. I only heard her speak it once with her (also) ½ Saami cousin. She totally hid her Saami side, like many did and only later in life I learned about it.

I have heard that there are several dialects of Sami language and at least some of those are non-understandable for others.

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 01:03 PM

I have heard that there are several dialects of Sami language and at least some of those are non-understandable for others.

Dialects or languages. There are many of them. Also Saamis of pure Saami ancestry who don't speak any Saami language. Then Saamis who speak Saami language, but have less Saami ancestry. This is the dilemma why the Finnish goverment after years trying has not got ready a new Saami law, which would define who is legitimate to sit at Saamikäräjät table.

Aila

03-31-2023, 01:18 PM

Lemmi
You also have some Saami dna, like most of us Karelians and Finns do. Do you know from which group?

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 01:36 PM

Lemmi
You also have some Saami dna, like most of us Karelians and Finns do. Do you know from which group?

Unfortunately not. I have made my genealogical work to 300-500 years back, but don't meet any. The local history knows a few mentions of Saamis from the 1500s in church registers. I guess I have, but the Siberian admixture can't pinpoint it because I have it less than Southwest Finns as average. I have read that Saamis speaking Kemi Saami where the southernmost Saami speakers on the seaside, but they lost their language 150 years ago. The last speaker died then.

Blondie

03-31-2023, 01:52 PM

You seemed to forget (just as it fits you) that I'm mainly Swedish.

And how about those Thumb downs of yours? Normally one can not get a rid of them. I (if any) will know that well enough (I even beat your records by one night).

Opposite to me; looks like you went to ''dad'', as a ''braive Hungarian person''.

It is pity that Harkonnen is not anymore here. He could teach you something (as his family partly came from that area).

Anyway; Karelian culture? How much you even know about it? Traditional foods for example, ever eat any of those or even seen one in real? Believe me; there were enough of those (living in Russia). If/as that culture has disappeared .... for that we can thank someone else. Vyborg was the most international city in Finland before WWII.

Were there lots of those ''brave Hungarian men'' who were not soldiers? In Finland all men (more a less all who could walk ... or make babies if you wish) were soldiers ... all the way to some 14 years boys.

Next time they will overpass away you have never seen.
And if Western Europe is lost, they will arrive in more than one direction.

And what if youre mostly swedish? Sweden was a poor peripheral region in Europe in the most history, they also didnt do anything except vikings were famous rapists and mass murders without civilization.
Why did you mention my thumbs downs? I got thousands of TD, a troll account gived me 3000 TD because of trolling in a one hour. You also got it. So what?
At the end of WW2 the finnish government did want to fight against soviets so they wanted peace and they sacrafied Karelia, its population, culture and everything. Its not a brave behaviour, neither the running from Karelia. Hungarians did not run from Transylvania or Slovakia although they opressed them as well.
If Finland is a really militarist nation then why finns always lived under others rule? Why there are no famous finnish wars, revolution, battles etc? Finns were fishers and hunters in general not warriors.

Aila

03-31-2023, 01:56 PM

Unfortunately not. I have made my genealogical work to 300-500 years back, but don't meet any. The local history knows a few mentions of Saamis from the 1500s in church registers. I guess I have, but the Siberian admixture can't pinpoint it because I have it less than Southwest Finns as average. I have read that Saamis speaking Kemi Saami where the southernmost Saami speakers on the seaside, but they lost their language 150 years ago. The last speaker died then.

You don’t have a cluster of Saami-dna cousins, all of them originally from the same place and all of them related to the same ancestor?

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 02:07 PM

You don’t have a cluster of Saami-dna cousins, all of them originally from the same place and all of them related to the same ancestor?

No. I recall that I had a Norwegian Saami "cousin" at 23andMe, but then he told be that he has Finland-Swedish ancestry from Ostrobothnia. As far as I have seen in my genealogical study my Finnish ancestry is from the seaside, from the Swedish side Luleå to Vaasa in Finland, cenering to are from Oulu to Kokkola.

Aila

03-31-2023, 02:34 PM

Ok. Thanks Lemmi.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 02:37 PM

And what if youre mostly swedish? Sweden was a poor peripheral region in Europe in the most history, they also didnt do anything except vikings were famous rapists and mass murders without civilization.
And conquers (as you think those are brave men). For me they were mainly tradesmen and especially great sailors and navigators (best on their time). But I meant House of Vasa era.

Why did you mention my thumbs downs? I got thousands of TD, a troll account gived me 3000 TD because of trolling in a one hour. You also got it. So what? And I got more than double those bit later, and I still did not go to Loki to ask to clean my statistic. Not my behavior as grown up in Finland.

At the end of WW2 the finnish government did want to fight against soviets so they wanted peace and they sacrafied Karelia, its population, culture and everything. Karelian culture lives in Finland. Just to mention a few: Orthodox people/churches

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Uspenski_Cathedral_Helsinki_2012.jpg

, or this kind log cabins

https://aksytammat.fi/dataflow/aksytammatverkkokauppa2/files/cache/99aa55acef87e5acf594f514194e38c9.jpg?atfimg=1&f=https%3A%2F%2Faksytammat.fi%2Fdataflow%2Faksytam matverkkokauppa2%2Ffiles%2Fmedia%2Fbombanurmesaksy tammatfi_690.jpg&w=760&h=500&c=3&q=80&hm=99aa55acef87e5acf594f514194e38c9

or these kind of pies

https://cdn.valio.fi/mediafiles/06809767-a1c5-42e2-a4e6-a5e39da1cb6b/1440x1080-recipe-hero/4x3/karjalanpiirakat-1.jpg

proves that. If you are still really worry about Karelian culture, you should not look at Finns or Finland. You should look at Russia and Russians. Most Karelians have always lived there. Always! Their ''Capital'' is Petroskoi city. And most of their territory was never part of Finland. I think you agree with me that your own language is one important mark of your culture? Many Karelians background people have lost that in Russia (and the same time the identity of their ancestors). PS: I have never heard of any of those ex. Vyborg citizens (who missed their home places) were angry with Finland (as the result of WWII). No, they accused and hated someone else.

Its not a brave behaviour, neither the running from Karelia. Hungarians did not run from Transylvania or Slovakia although they opressed them as well. Finns never run anywhere, they stopped Russians last attack in Tali-Ihantala Battle (which is the biggest battle in Fennosscandia ever).

If Finland is a really militarist nation then why finns always lived under others rule? Why there are no famous finnish wars, revolution, battles etc? Finns were fishers and hunters in general not warriors.
Being brave and being a miliarist are not the same. If you can not see differences, it is useless to talk with you (as it has always been).

Blondie

03-31-2023, 03:53 PM

...

Most viking conquerors were not even swedish btw, but norvegian and danish. The paternal origin of House of Rurik was N1c, proves that this dynasty has probably finnish origin instead of swedish. Swedes basically did not do anything, except some robbery in East Europe. I cant mention any swedish cultural thing either what influenced Europe, oh sorry now the Sweden is the base of woke culture in Europe wich is clearly harmful. So this is the only cultural thing in the last 1000 years, this woke mania. Thanks you so much.
Indeed swedes were good sailors, and what? It has nothing to do with civilization.

Why is the karelian culture located in Finland instead of Karelia? You posted nice houses, foods, but it does not change the fact that the finnish government dropped this area to soviets to save Helsinki and other parts of Finland, because the finnish army did not want to fight to the last soldier and settlement. If you lose Karelia in a war when you sacrafice everything to save your lands and home, its a totally different case, because thats called honour. It seems you have no idea what this word means.

If finns are really brave then why they never rebelled against the conquerors? In Hungary we have hundreds of revolutionary war. Yes its useless to talking with you because youre dumb as well.

frankhammer

03-31-2023, 04:27 PM

Hektor12

03-31-2023, 04:35 PM

FS is just an average brainwashed swede with globalist agenda.

I dont think average Swede would trample somebody for "changing" as time passed. Swedish arent the most unknown people to me. I remember singing tipp tapp together in some cold days of the year.

What kind of argument is "180-degree turn" ? It isnt even a poor argument. Its nothing. If somebody thinks that 180-degree turns are unallowed for humans and we should keep our initial opinions like theyre set in stone, so how can she explain, for example, this=

https://i.imgur.com/ufP4MU6.jpg

Hektor12

03-31-2023, 04:38 PM

Tomorrow I wouldn't have believed.

Congratz, welcome bro. By the way, how this 276–0 feels? Is it a good indicator?

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 04:56 PM

Congratz, welcome bro. By the way, how this 276–0 feels? Is it a good indicator?

Of course I am happy to see such numbers, meaning that also people who oppose Erdogan pressed yes button.

Btw, I was not sure if you have the April-fools day, but wikipedia knew "Bir Nisan!". It is tomorrow, be aware.

Blondie

03-31-2023, 04:57 PM

Both sides are living in the past. Hungarians quite a lot further back. The last time the Hungarian fought, they were humbled badly like their allies, the Germans. Finns have an existential threat on their border. Some Hungarians believe this also but theirs is the "woke" west.

Germany and Hungary were defeated by weapons, not on a conference table, this is the difference. I think americans or russians also admire the Wehrmacht, its professional leadership and everything.
When im checking comments about hungarian-ottoman wars, turks are talking respectfully about the hungarian army, i did not really see this behaviour in the case of others.
Yes if you are at war, sometimes you will lose, the question is how will you lose with honour or cowardly. Although the german-hungarian coalition was totally defeated by enemies, they have kept their honour.
Many people find it strange or stupidism if you continue the war even if you have no chance, and rather you will die on the battlefield, and you sacrafice everything instead of capitulation. Only these can understand such things who was born and socialized in a militant nation.

Vasag

03-31-2023, 05:32 PM

I want to make it crystal clear that the approval of Finland's NATO membership by the Hungarian parliament has absolutely nothing to do with aliens, JFK Jr, or Kim Kardashian. It is unfortunate that some individuals have chosen to spread baseless and absurd claims about the motives behind this decision, rather than recognizing the complex political, strategic, and military considerations involved.

Let us address the ludicrous suggestion that aliens played a role in the approval of Finland's NATO membership. Not only is there no evidence to support this claim, but it is also not within the realm of plausible explanations for such a decision. To suggest otherwise is to indulge in baseless conspiracy theories and distract from the serious and significant implications of Finland's NATO membership.

The notion that JFK Jr or Kim Kardashian played a role in this decision is equally unfounded and disrespectful. These individuals have no influence over international relations or security cooperation, and to suggest otherwise is not only ridiculous, but also trivializes the efforts and sacrifices of those who have worked towards establishing and maintaining NATO.

Aldaris

03-31-2023, 05:36 PM

I doubt SF has any Lapp relatives or knows about Lappish heritage within - to speak from ….

Warning - going in the left field ….
Sometimes I have wondered if some folk with their warmongering speeches here have some deeper psychological issues, which are then projected onto this Russia – Ukraine (side of God vs side of satan) war.

I haven’t been into rap, but Ren and his lymes disease psychosis (similar to schizophrenia and bipolar disorder) changed that with his disturbing but compelling performance.
So, now I am listening to Ren’s influences, like NF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBS4ZFycjnM&ab_channel=Star

But since I listened to it so intently, there is an after echo and now I cannot help but read these for and against war/army-magnificence stories without hearing them like rap expressions of internal psychological dialogue duels.

Maybe rap has some therapeutic usages?

What the actual fack are you on? Sounds like some incomprehensible rant that would put all the BarcelonaAtlantis' posts into a completely shame. Or did you ask an AI bot about something in a wrong way and it gave you that answer? Seriously hope it was the latter case.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 05:39 PM

Most viking conquerors were not even swedish btw, but norvegian and danish.
And? I have said pretty many times that my father's bloodline comes from Scania. Do you have any idea where that is? Believe me, here are lots of Vikings runestones.

Why is the karelian culture located in Finland instead of Karelia? Good question. Expecially as only small part of Karelia has ever been part of Finland. Now ask that again and think 2 seconds.
Just as Russians have destroyed it in Russia. Have you heard that Karelians (a few) though about independence somewhere 1920 early 1930? Sovjet's butchered them ....

You posted nice houses, foods, but it does not change the fact that the finnish government dropped this area to soviets to save Helsinki and other parts of Finland, because the finnish army did not want to fight to the last soldier and settlement. If you lose Karelia in a war when you sacrafice everything to save your lands and home, its a totally different case, because thats called honour. It seems you have no idea what this word means. As I said Finns fought as long as it was needed. Stalin /Russians had not automatical reasons to accept peace treaty created by Churchill. It was their decision as well. Finland was never occupied by anybody while WWII. Pretty good for less than 5 million peoiple nation. Hungary? Double size what comes to numbers of people.

''After two years of war against the Soviet Union, Prime Minister Miklós Kállay began peace negotiations with the United States and the United Kingdom in autumn of 1943.[4] Berlin was already suspicious of the Kállay government, and in September 1943, the German General Staff prepared a project to invade and occupy Hungary. In March 1944, German forces occupied Hungary. When Soviet forces began threatening Hungary, an armistice was signed between Hungary and the USSR by Regent Miklós Horthy.''

Now; I wonder how BRAVE that was?

If finns are really brave then why they never rebelled against the conquerors? In Hungary we have hundreds of revolutionary war. Yes its useless to talking with you because youre dumb as well.
You have ever heard about Cudgel War?

But stupid riots like yellow-vests on the streets of France will not help anything. One simply can not live beyond. At least not Lutherans who have some rescpects ... ''gypsies'' are another story.

Vasag

03-31-2023, 05:43 PM

What the actual fack are you on?

Just because someone posts something you don't agree with, it doesn't mean they're on drugs or that their opinion is invalid. It's not only unproductive, but it's also incredibly harmful and disrespectful.

Accusing someone of being on drugs without any evidence is a serious accusation. It can ruin their reputation, damage their relationships, and even impact their job prospects. All because someone had a different opinion than you? That's just not right. This type of behavior perpetuates the toxic and judgmental culture that has taken over online platforms. Instead of engaging in meaningful discussions and debates, people resort to name-calling and personal attacks. It's not productive, and it only serves to further divide us.

So let's all take a step back and think before we accuse someone of being on drugs just because we don't agree with them. Let's engage in respectful discourse and learn from each other, even if we don't always see eye to eye. It's time to move beyond this toxic behavior and start treating each other with the respect and dignity we all deserve.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 05:55 PM

Germany and Hungary were defeated by weapons, not on a conference table, this is the difference. I think americans or russians also admire the Wehrmacht, its professional leadership and everything..

I also admire Germans (past and present).

What comes to respect, it is not the legend that Stalin had responded to Churchill: ''Maybe Finns will earn their independence ... they have fought so hard for it''.

Pretty well said by Monster.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 06:43 PM

I dont think average Swede would trample somebody for "changing" as time passed. Swedish arent the most unknown people to me. I remember singing tipp tapp together in some cold days of the year.

What kind of argument is "180-degree turn" ? It isnt even a poor argument. Its nothing. If somebody thinks that 180-degree turns are unallowed for humans and we should keep our initial opinions like theyre set in stone, so how can she explain, for example, this=

Do you think I changed my opinion? I did not.

I call those people who were against NATO since the 1990s stupid. I do not value high leftist presidents: Koivisto, Ahtisaari, Halonen either. Before that (1950-1990) the whole topic was opposite fully irrelevant (so no need to talk about that).

The period 1990's to 2021/2022 .... just shows what many decades of brainwashing cause. All finns are not immune to that.

Aldaris

03-31-2023, 07:10 PM

Just because someone posts something you don't agree with, it doesn't mean they're on drugs or that their opinion is invalid. It's not only unproductive, but it's also incredibly harmful and disrespectful.

Accusing someone of being on drugs without any evidence is a serious accusation. It can ruin their reputation, damage their relationships, and even impact their job prospects. All because someone had a different opinion than you? That's just not right. This type of behavior perpetuates the toxic and judgmental culture that has taken over online platforms. Instead of engaging in meaningful discussions and debates, people resort to name-calling and personal attacks. It's not productive, and it only serves to further divide us.

So let's all take a step back and think before we accuse someone of being on drugs just because we don't agree with them. Let's engage in respectful discourse and learn from each other, even if we don't always see eye to eye. It's time to move beyond this toxic behavior and start treating each other with the respect and dignity we all deserve.

:laugh: How is your robot friend doing? You can ask him that too.

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 07:29 PM

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 07:41 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y3KEhWTnWvE

https://im.mtvuutiset.fi/image/8421326/landscape16_9/1024/576/9cd629ebd81ac88759534a001465b81e/ki/17-00535556.jpg

https://hs.mediadelivery.fi/img/658/1090d60d3b034a47bf14fa77035b5bca.jpg.webp

https://images.cdn.yle.fi/image/upload/w_1200,h_844,ar_1.4222222566604614,dpr_2,c_fill,g_ faces/q_auto:eco,f_auto,fl_lossy/13-3-9736098

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 07:59 PM

Hektor12

03-31-2023, 08:05 PM

Btw, I was not sure if you have the April-fools day, but wikipedia knew "Bir Nisan!". It is tomorrow, be aware.

Ok, i will prepare something for you, yarın görüşürüz! (:

nittionia

03-31-2023, 08:07 PM

Hektor12

03-31-2023, 08:08 PM

Do you think I changed my opinion? I did not.Im not a gigachad like you, i did. Watching Givi cool videos and memeing around with when i was too young and too stupid, now im on the opposite side of the conflict. Judge me.

Lemminkäinen

03-31-2023, 08:13 PM

FS: :rotfl2

Blondie

03-31-2023, 11:13 PM

''After two years of war against the Soviet Union, Prime Minister Miklós Kállay began peace negotiations with the United States and the United Kingdom in autumn of 1943.[4] Berlin was already suspicious of the Kállay government, and in September 1943, the German General Staff prepared a project to invade and occupy Hungary. In March 1944, German forces occupied Hungary. When Soviet forces began threatening Hungary, an armistice was signed between Hungary and the USSR by Regent Miklós Horthy.''

Now; I wonder how BRAVE that was?

The peace had no any social base, hungarians did not resist against germans but they celebrated them as well. Hungarians did not rebelled against Szálasi's total war policy either.

You have ever heard about Cudgel War?

But stupid riots like yellow-vests on the streets of France will not help anything. One simply can not live beyond. At least not Lutherans who have some rescpects ... ''gypsies'' are another story.

Even gypsies have more civilization background than Swedes, since they are from India, the first civilization. This is awkward dont you think? Finns/swedes are not brave.

Blondie

03-31-2023, 11:23 PM

Im not a gigachad like you, i did. Watching Givi cool videos and memeing around with when i was too young and too stupid, now im on the opposite side of the conflict. Judge me.

If someone doesnt change the opinion, it means they dont reflect on the changing of world, they just live in a filter bubble. These persons are dumb in general, they are looking for justifications for their personal world view instead of reality.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 11:30 PM

The peace had no any social base, hungarians did not resist against germans but they celebrated them as well. Hungarians did not rebelled against Szálasi's total war policy either.
Empty words. As you have called Finns so many times cowards in this thread .... read my lips: Hungarians are/were COWARDS!

Even gypsies have more civilization background than Swedes, since they are from India, the first civilization. This is awkward dont you think?
Some will develop, some opposite not. We live today.

The climate influenced were the first civilizations born, not the people. Now (modern era) humans have more similar chances (the climate will not influence that much anymore) => high IQ ethnics with high working morals will shine.

Finnish Swede

03-31-2023, 11:48 PM

If someone doesnt change the opinion, it means they dont reflect on the changing of world, they just live in a filter bubble. These persons are dumb in general, they are looking for justifications for their personal world view instead of reality.

I can change my opinion (a bit) if/then needed. But I will not change those 180 degrees. No need for that (just as I tend to think/value matters enough already beforehand). Plus I never do that in deadly serious matters/topics like Russia/Russians. My whole life is much too short for that. That would need at least seven-eight generations (and Russians would all the time behave very differently vs today).

Aila

04-01-2023, 12:37 AM

What the actual fack are you on? Sounds like some incomprehensible rant that would put all the BarcelonaAtlantis' posts into a completely shame. Or did you ask an AI bot about something in a wrong way and it gave you that answer? Seriously hope it was the latter case.

Hi Aldaris,
My response to you calling SF lappish was that “I doubt SF has any Lapp relatives or knows about Lappish heritage within - to speak from ….”
In other words, you had mistaken her identity.

The stuff in the left field was to be taken - in general. I had been wondering "if sometimes some folk with their warmongering speeches here have some deeper psychological issues, which are then projected onto this Russia – Ukraine (side of God vs side of satan) war”.
No. I am not on drugs, but I had discovered rap artists Ren and NF, whose internal battles with their own inner angels and demons I had listened to intently. So much so, that the after effect was a bit difficult to shake off & I started to read people’s posts as internal dialogue rap rants. Lol.

Not your problem. Don’t worry about it.
But BarcelonaAtlantis' posts??? Sorry, in this context I cannot even recall any, so I don’t know what you are talking about.

Anglo-Celtic

04-01-2023, 01:31 AM

Blondie

04-01-2023, 03:51 AM

Empty words. As you have called Finns so many times cowards in this thread .... read my lips: Hungarians are/were COWARDS!

Just because you said that, the history doesnt proves your words. I mentioned tons of argument.

Mingle

04-01-2023, 03:58 AM

NATO should have gone the way of the Warsaw Pact after the Cold War supposedly ended. We had a chance to partner with Russia in the '90s, but the military industrial complex can't make money from peace.
We did partner with Russia though. NATO and Russia were officially allies in the early 2000s. It was in the mid-2000s when relations with Russia gradually started deteriorating, and then later the Russian invasions of Georgia (2008) and Ukraine (2014) finally led to Russia being seen as an adversary.

Creoda

04-01-2023, 04:14 AM

Vasag

04-01-2023, 04:23 AM

Anglo-Celtic

04-01-2023, 05:18 AM

We did partner with Russia though. NATO and Russia were officially allies in the early 2000s. It was in the mid-2000s when relations with Russia gradually started deteriorating, and then later the Russian invasions of Georgia (2008) and Ukraine (2014) finally led to Russia being seen as an adversary.

We didn't support them enough. That set the stage for the oligarchy and Putin, and we're paying the price for not concentrating on the right people (the sober versions of Yeltsin). As for Ukraine, the Orange Revolution put that ball in motion when the Nuland posse staged a coup to oust the pro Russian side. The Ukrainians also harassed the ethnic Russians in the eastern section of Ukraine, so there are no good guys in white hats like the neoconservative propagandists claim.

Mingle

04-01-2023, 06:17 AM

We didn't support them enough. That set the stage for the oligarchy and Putin, and we're paying the price for not concentrating on the right people (the sober versions of Yeltsin). As for Ukraine, the Orange Revolution put that ball in motion when the Nuland posse staged a coup to oust the pro Russian side. The Ukrainians also harassed the ethnic Russians in the eastern section of Ukraine, so there are no good guys in white hats like the neoconservative propagandists claim.
What else should the US have done to support Russia more? Just ignore the invasions of pro-Western Georgia and Ukraine like they never happened? You made it sound like the American military was thirsting for war with Russia when this deterioration only happened after Russia invaded.

Finnish Swede

04-01-2023, 06:54 AM

Just because you said that, the history doesnt proves your words. I mentioned tons of argument.

I bet it would be ''fascinating'' to read a history of Hungary a bit more closely, written by Orban (or anybody similar/his puppets). But no time for that kind of nonsense. I can(need) passively follow propaganda news of Russians. That is already more than enough. Russians tend to rewrite their history many many times (which just will suit the best present time). Starting from the school books. I bet you are not far.

Finnish Swede

04-01-2023, 08:35 AM

Doesn't seem like very long ago the US press were ridiculing Sarah Palin for her paranoia about Putin/Russia, then Obama famously said to Romney's warnings about the Russians in 2012: 'the Cold War's over'.

It is difficult to go mind of another person, but at least already 2007 Putin had chosen his road. Find his speech in Munich Serurity Conference (2007). It tells a lot. That was the first time he accused West with strong words. Reading between the lines:

1.) He was personally frustrated & probably disappointed (as West did not notice/show him the respect which his personal pride would have needed).
2.) He was worried that Russia would lose it's super-power position first time in centuries.

Security issues or NATO's spreading into the East ... just excuses. Or if that can be seen via the second matter (Russia could not anymore influence to other independent countries as they used to do while Cold war time, not how strong Russia would be inside) .... then yes. But in my eyes that is wrong from the beginning. Independent countries should have rights to choose by themselves. Also between Russia or West.

Georgia crises started year later ...

Of course already 2005 Putin labelled The Collapse of Sovjet Union as the greatest geopolitical catasprophe of the 20th century (in his own speech). So I assume he has always thought that Russia has right to involve its neighborns matters (no matter their wishes), and as West did not give/allow him that right ... here we are.

Blondie

04-01-2023, 10:01 AM

I bet it would be ''fascinating'' to read a history of Hungary a bit more closely, written by Orban (or anybody similar/his puppets). But no time for that kind of nonsense. I can(need) passively follow propaganda news of Russians. That is already more than enough. Russians tend to rewrite their history many many times (which just will suit the best present time). Starting from the school books. I bet you are not far.

So the ottoman-hungarian wars, the WW1 and WW2 etc are just propaganda, written by Orbán and never happened? No one on this planet is as dumb as you are :rotfl: I can understand your frustration, if you have no history, then you must relativize others.

gixajo

04-01-2023, 10:18 AM

I bet it would be ''fascinating'' to read a history of Hungary a bit more closely, written by Orban (or anybody similar/his puppets). But no time for that kind of nonsense. I can(need) passively follow propaganda news of Russians. That is already more than enough. Russians tend to rewrite their history many many times (which just will suit the best present time). Starting from the school books. I bet you are not far.

https://i.postimg.cc/MKbBchX6/stalin-borrados.png (https://postimages.org/)

In the original photo, from left to right, Nikolai Antipov (former USSR People's Commissar for Posts and Telegraphs), Joseph Stalin, Sergei Kirov and Nikolai Shvernik. Each of the members in the original photo was removed as they fell out of favor.

rothaer

04-01-2023, 10:37 AM

Doesn't seem like very long ago the US press were ridiculing Sarah Palin for her paranoia about Putin/Russia, then Obama famously said to Romney's warnings about the Russians in 2012: 'the Cold War's over'.

Yes, that was to lull the Russians into a sense of security while there were ongoing preparations to turn the independent Ukraine into the next anti-Russian bot.

Finnish Swede

04-01-2023, 10:42 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/MKbBchX6/stalin-borrados.png (https://postimages.org/)

Thanks, but I do not need any proof. Everyone with any senses knows how the totalitarian system/their leaders work. Partly as they simply can ... bringing up the worst sides of humans.

Finnish Swede

04-01-2023, 10:51 AM

So the ottoman-hungarian wars, the WW1 and WW2 etc are just propaganda, written by Orbán and never happened? No one on this planet is as dumb as you are :rotfl: I can understand your frustration, if you have no history, then you must relativize others.

I never said that. You lie as always. So of course not, but yours talks here, several times (and probably his/his kinds of fantasy nationalist talks) that Hungarians fought for the last man!
I already showed that Hungary negotiated with Russians secretly at the end of WWII (and as Nazi Germany did not like that they occupied your country 1944). Shortly saying: Losers who became occupied while WWII!

Finns opposite kicked German forces out of the Finland. Alone (Lapland war) to reach their Peace Treaty.

You lose every time.

gixajo

04-01-2023, 11:06 AM

Thanks, but I do not need any proof. Everyone with any senses knows how the totalitarian system/their leaders work. Partly as they simply can ... bringing up the worst sides of humans.

The rhetoric they use is exactly the same as in Soviet times. Exactly the same. Of course, they deny that this is the case. Doublethink, as Orwell said.

To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself—that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word—doublethink—involved the use of doublethink.

To a post like this, one of them would appear and say: "And ... what about the West...?

Lemminkäinen

04-01-2023, 11:27 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/MKbBchX6/stalin-borrados.png (https://postimages.org/)

Stalin's left eye is open only in the second picture. The fourth one is an attempt to substitute the original by a new picture.

Blondie

04-01-2023, 11:49 AM

I never said that. You lie as always. So of course not, but yours talks here, several times (and probably his/his kinds of fantasy nationalist talks) that Hungarians fought for the last man!
I already showed that Hungary negotiated with Russians secretly at the end of WWII (and as Nazi Germany did not like that they occupied your country 1944). Shortly saying: Losers who became occupied while WWII!

Finns opposite kicked German forces out of the Finland. Alone (Lapland war) to reach their Peace Treaty.

You lose every time.

Seems youre really mentally retarded. Just because some hungarian politician negotiated with russians, it doesnt change the fact that hungarians have fought to the last man in the WW2. I have never said that there were no any negotiations, i just said the hungarian army did not give up and they continued the war at the end, this is historical fact.
The hungarian front line in 1944-1945:

https://m.blog.hu/2v/2vilaghaborufegyverei/image/terkepek/mo_harcok_map0.jpg

Germans did not forced hungarians to fight, because nobody resisted against german troops, peace with soviets had no any serious social base in Hungary at this time, the hungarian society did not see the german army as invaders, but they welcomed them as well:

https://mandiner.hu/attachment/0301/300391_nemet_megszallas.jpg

In September 1944, Soviet forces crossed the Hungarian border. On 15 October, Horthy announced that Hungary had asked for an armistice with the Soviet Union. The Hungarian army ignored Horthy's orders, fighting desperately to keep the Soviets out.

Its also proves that the hungarian army and society did not even cared about this peace with soviets, and they continued the war.

The last hungarian frontline were in Nagykanizsa-Körmend, located in Alpokalja (western side of West Hungary):

After the failed offensive, the Germans in Hungary were eliminated. Most of what remained of the Hungarian Third Army was destroyed about 50 kilometres (31 mi) west of Budapest between 16 and 25 March 1945. From 26 March and 15 April, the Soviets and Bulgarians launched the Nagykanizsa–Körmend Offensive and more Hungarian remnants were destroyed as part of Army Group South fighting alongside the 2nd Panzer Army.

Hungarians have fought even in Germany too:

Officially, Soviet operations in Hungary ended on 4 April 1945, when the last German troops were expelled. Some pro-fascist Hungarians such as Szálasi escaped—for a time—with the Germans. A few pro-German Hungarian units fought on until the end of the war. Units such as the Szent László Infantry Division ended the war in southern Austria.

Some hungarian unit continued the war even in Denmark too:

A few Hungarian soldiers ended the war in Denmark in some of the last territory not yet occupied by the Allies.

I hope now everything clear and you can understand these things with your limited lappish brain. Yes you lose everytime.

Finnish Swede

04-01-2023, 12:06 PM

Seems youre really mentally retarded. Just because some hungarian politician negotiated with russians, it doesnt change the fact that hungarians have fought to the last man in the WW2. I have never said that there were no any negotiations, i just said the hungarian army did not give up and they continued the war at the end, this is historical fact.
The hungarian front line in 1944-1945:

https://m.blog.hu/2v/2vilaghaborufegyverei/image/terkepek/mo_harcok_map0.jpg

Germans did not forced hungarians to fight, because nobody resisted against german troops, peace with soviets had no any serious social base in Hungary at this time, the hungarian society did not see the german army as invaders, but they welcomed them as well:

https://mandiner.hu/attachment/0301/300391_nemet_megszallas.jpg

Its also proves that the hungarian army and society did not even cared about this peace with soviets, and they continued the war.

The last hungarian frontline were in Nagykanizsa-Körmend, located in Alpokalja (western side of West Hungary):

Hungarians have fought even in Germany too:

Some hungarian unit continued the war even in Denmark too:

I hope now everything clear and you can understand these things with your limited lappish brain. Yes you lose everytime.

Now tell me my ''Dear'', what makes Finns coward, like you have said (if some Finnish politicians negotiated with Russians .... even started by Churcill) and Hungarians opposite not as doing totally same? And
Hungary become occupied by Nazi Germany (Finns opposite kicked them out via Lapland War) and after end of the WWII Hungary ended to puppets of Russians (as you deserved that) and Finland kept its sovereignty? Even Stalin admitted that Finns deserves that.

And your talks about fought last man ... your last man means the last soldiers (in Hungary). As you said earlier. I can promise you that in case of Finland all men fought (since 13/14 years old boys to old men who simply could walk. Less than 5 million nation needed all of them. Even women (air controlling, nursering, making clothes, making food etc.). My granny participated as 7 years old (a small Lotta).

Your bravery is a fake vs Finns.

PS: Do you think the Japanese were cowards (WWII) as they really surrendered (opposite to Finns) after two atomic bombs? Maybe they should had continued fighting and taken still 3 or even 5 more? No other questions...

Lemminkäinen

04-01-2023, 09:24 PM

Yes, that was to lull the Russians into a sense of security while there were ongoing preparations to turn the independent Ukraine into the next anti-Russian bot.

Someone being unbiased? Maybe Santa Claus is real.

gixajo

04-01-2023, 10:24 PM

Someone being unbiased? Maybe Santa Claus is real.

We all have some kind of bias, inherent almost as a primary instinct to every human being, but I think that we can agree that some more than others, and that among those who usually have less is many times because they want to be intellectually honest, so they try as much as possible to get rid of biases in order to give opinions as close to the truth as possible on a given issue.

It's not about being perfect, which is impossible, it's about trying to be as perfect as possible, or at least not consciously and deliberately being imperfect.

Lemminkäinen

04-01-2023, 10:29 PM

I can feel there frustration. Are Germany, Hungary and Central European Slavs hopelessly lost brothers too? I feel superiority.

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1642149500771876864

Lemminkäinen

04-01-2023, 10:35 PM

We all have some kind of bias, inherent almost as a primary instinct to every human being, but I think that we can agree that some more than others, and that among those who usually have less is many times because they want to be intellectually honest, so they try as much as possible to get rid of biases in order to give opinions as close to the truth as possible on a given issue.

It's not about being perfect, which is impossible, it's about trying to be as perfect as possible, or at least not consciously and deliberately being imperfect.

I question myself, but it frustrated me to see besserwisserism.

Blondie

04-01-2023, 11:07 PM

Now tell me my ''Dear'', what makes Finns coward, like you have said (if some Finnish politicians negotiated with Russians .... even started by Churcill) and Hungarians opposite not as doing totally same? And
Hungary become occupied by Nazi Germany (Finns opposite kicked them out via Lapland War) and after end of the WWII Hungary ended to puppets of Russians (as you deserved that) and Finland kept its sovereignty? Even Stalin admitted that Finns deserves that.

The difference is in Hungary nobody cared about the peace with soviets, they wanted to continue the war, unlike finns. Every single hungarian settlement were besiged by soviets, including the capital. Budapest was often called that second Stalingrad. Thats never happened in Finland, because finns gived up the war. Thats called opportunism. The finnish opportunism is very clearly if you see your history, for example lack of revolutionary wars. Why are finns so brave? Yes they were brave in the Winter War, but this is only one moment in the 1000 years old finnish history.

And your talks about fought last man ... your last man means the last soldiers (in Hungary). As you said earlier. I can promise you that in case of Finland all men fought (since 13/14 years old boys to old men who simply could walk. Less than 5 million nation needed all of them. Even women (air controlling, nursering, making clothes, making food etc.). My granny participated as 7 years old (a small Lotta).

Dont worry, hungarians, germans, croats etc also did it.

Your bravery is a fake vs Finns.

Youre the perfect example if someone has no history and became insecure, just like most of dumb nordicists. Hungary (along with Poland) defeated the mongols and saved the whole continent from this mass murder horde:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary

Ottomans were stopped in the Carpathian Basin, the hungarian army played a big role to save Central Europe from islamization/ottoman opression. There was common austrian-hungarian crusade to the Holy Land, the hungarian king II. András became the king of Jerusalem too. And there are tons of such thing from the hungarian history, but what finns did at this time? Nothing, they were just peaceful slaves of swedes or russians for 1000 years. Yeah very brave behaviour.... we are not on same level in historical past.

PS: Do you think the Japanese were cowards (WWII) as they really surrendered (opposite to Finns) after two atomic bombs? Maybe they should had continued fighting and taken still 3 or even 5 more? No other questions...

I have no good opinion on japanese.

Anglo-Celtic

04-02-2023, 04:03 AM

What else should the US have done to support Russia more? Just ignore the invasions of pro-Western Georgia and Ukraine like they never happened? You made it sound like the American military was thirsting for war with Russia when this deterioration only happened after Russia invaded.

We could have engaged in more joint ventures of exploration in the ocean and space, and we could have asked them to join NATO. Instead, we acted like it was still the Cold War when our "thirsty" leaders chose to surround them with new NATO members. That's what got the ball rolling to where we are now. They were surrounded by potential enemies, so calls for good relations were as laughable as pretending that Zelensky is a heroic force for liberty.

Finnish Swede

04-02-2023, 08:19 AM

I have no good opinion on japanese.

Yes, I ''knew'' you do not have (that was the reason I asked that). Just wanted to hear it from you here in TA.

I opposite have (knowing the circumstances enough).

That is our difference.

The rest? All have been said many time already earlier, so no needs to repeat them.

Lemminkäinen

04-02-2023, 09:00 AM

We could have engaged in more joint ventures of exploration in the ocean and space, and we could have asked them to join NATO. Instead, we acted like it was still the Cold War when our "thirsty" leaders chose to surround them with new NATO members. That's what got the ball rolling to where we are now. They were surrounded by potential enemies, so calls for good relations were as laughable as pretending that Zelensky is a heroic force for liberty.

Does Germany belong to the Nato? It sounds illogical that they had good relations with Russia. Only members who belonged to the Warsaw pact object Russia. Watch the video clip I put here a few messages ago. The Russian politics has set it like "they are ours". In a long run sounds like a new Cold War. Only the temporary weakness after the Sovjet collapse made Russia moderate. Are UK and France yours, like we seem to be property of Russia? Did USA give 30 years ago to the Russia a possibility to be yours? Yes, but Russians didn't want it. Joint ventures would have put them kissing US plans? Or you kissing Russian plans?

Finnish Swede

04-02-2023, 09:49 AM

Does Germany belong to the Nato? It sounds illogical that they had good relations with Russia. Only members who belonged to the Warsaw pact object Russia. Watch the video clip I put here a few messages ago. The Russian politics has set it like "they are ours". In a long run sounds like a new Cold War. Only the temporary weakness after the Sovjet collapse made Russia moderate. Are UK and France yours, like we seem to be property of Russia? Did USA give 30 years ago to the Russia a possibility to be yours? Yes, but Russians didn't want it. Joint ventures would have put them kissing US plans? Or you kissing Russian plans?

The only way ''West'' could have co-operated with Russians since 2000 to these days would have been to support the Super-Power position of Russians in World's global policy (after the collapse of Sovjet Union). This (or risk of losing this) is the real reason why Putin started to behave like he did. Or what he does today.

Now, I do not know if USA/Americans (which means exaclty the same/only as ''West'' to Russia) could have benefitted for that kind of actions (= supportins Super Power position of Russians) but for rest of us ... ''west'' in Europe, especially to their small neighborns .... strong Russia is exactly the worse kind of bogyman.

Lemminkäinen

04-02-2023, 11:41 AM

The only way ''West'' could have co-operated with Russians since 2000 to these days would have been to support the Super-Power position of Russians in World's global policy (after the collapse of Sovjet Union). This (or risk of losing this) is the real reason why Putin started to behave like he did. Or what he does today.

Now, I do not know if USA/Americans (which means exaclty the same/only as ''West'' to Russia) could have benefitted for that kind of actions (= supportins Super Power position of Russians) but for rest of us ... ''west'' in Europe, especially to their small neighborns .... strong Russia is exactly the worse kind of bogyman.

Russia seeks always more land. This is how it differs from USA. Did Stalin feel after the war gratitude of the US help in the WWII. Njet. It was ok to help Russia, but not now to help Ukraine. Of course this makes sense. In the WWII it helped to get more land, now it is conversely. Russia would have easily continued profitable oil and gas trade to Germany and other Euro countries if they could have left politics out of the bill. It is German hindsight to say "but Americans". Saying that Americans don't allow us to have nukes makes sense, saying that Americans don't allow us to become dependent of Russia doesn't.

rothaer

04-02-2023, 12:55 PM

Someone being unbiased? Maybe Santa Claus is real.

The dissolution of the Soviet Union has been used by the US-led Nato to since the dissolotion of the Soviet Union to adopt as members not just Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria, but also the former Soviet republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. This all was also against what was (outside of formal treaties) promised to the Soviet side in 1990 when it was about the German (partial) reunification. For orientation: It was formally contracted that non-German Nato troops are not allowed on the territory of the FRG that was before GDR and this is in force till this very day.

The adoption as members of all the mentioned countries could still be motivated by a pure European defence interest.

But not so with the going further USA activities. The USA tried to get Georgia into the Nato, it had used military bases in Kasachstan and install themselves there permanenty (it failed) and lately tried the same in Tajikistan. And you know how long such things then can persist even in a regretting and not-anymore agreeing country (cf. Guantánamo on Cuba). Nothing of that has anything to do with justified defence interests of Nato countries. And all these hostile approaches are made towards Russia in a manner that the USA would never accept regarding themselves (see the Cuba crisis).

Its dominance is the USA using for its economical interests, as you amongst others things could see when it put sanctions already to the companies that built Nord Stream I. Russia (and the irrelevant Belarus) is the only remaining not manipulated by the US country in Europe. This is why the USA is that hostile towards Russia and not because of democracy deficienceis and corruption. Best buddies of the USA like Saudi Arabia and Egypt prove that the USA doesn't care for such conditions.

You may like this US agenda for whatever reason, but if you don't even see it, you are not especially clear sighted to express it politely.

rothaer

04-02-2023, 01:12 PM

Russia seeks always more land. This is how it differs from USA. Did Stalin feel after the war gratitude of the US help in the WWII. Njet. It was ok to help Russia, but not now to help Ukraine. Of course this makes sense. In the WWII it helped to get more land, now it is conversely. Russia would have easily continued profitable oil and gas trade to Germany and other Euro countries if they could have left politics out of the bill. It is German hindsight to say "but Americans". Saying that Americans don't allow us to have nukes makes sense, saying that Americans don't allow us to become dependent of Russia doesn't.

But being dependent on the Americans is fine?

In contrast to Russia where we got rid of their occupation troops in 1994, the Americans are still there, now for soon 80 years. Like a louse in our fur that we can't get rid of. And they illegally are wiretapping the German chancellor's phone, shrugging their shoulders and violating whatever German laws they want in Germany. This is humiliating and disgusting. They are the pest to Germans, not the Russians. And what did the Russians do to us the last 25 years? Provide us with cheap energy.

In fact the Russians are our only hope to get out of this American captivity.

Finnish Swede

04-02-2023, 01:23 PM

But being dependent on the Americans is fine?

In contrast to Russia where we got rid of their occupation troops in 1994, the Americans are still there, now for soon 80 years. Like a louse in our fur that we can't get rid of. And they illegally are wiretapping the German chancellor's phone, shrugging their shoulders and are violating whatever German laws they want in Germany. This is humiliating and disgusting. They are the pest to Germans, not the Russians. And what did the Russians do to us the last 25 years? Provide us with cheap energy.

In fact the Russians are our only hope to get out of this American captivity.

The problem is that your option is even worse than the present situation.

That is why nobody wants that in Europe. Not Finns who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know, Not any Baltics who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know, not Poles who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know. Maybe you did not learn enough end of WWII, maybe you live too far from Russia. Maybe you have too little real life common experiences with Russians.

rothaer

04-02-2023, 01:43 PM

The problem is that your option is even worse than the present situation.

Not being occupied is worse than being occupied by the Americans? Maybe we can switch then. You take our American occupants in Sweden or Finland or both. And you have zero experience regarding these hypocrite master manipulators.

That is why nobody wants that in Europe.

Wants what? Cheap energy from Russia? Most of Europe wants it and big parts get it. And the German government has supported and strived for this for many years.

Not Finns who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know, Not any Baltics who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know, not Poles who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know. Maybe you did not learn enough end of WWII, maybe you live too far from Russia. Maybe you have too little real life common experiences with Russians.

Have you ever heard of the GDR? Have you heard of that Russians together with Poles robbed 1/4 of the German Empire area per 1937 and supported Poles and Czechs in robbing and expelling abt. 12 million Germans and did it as well themselves? Have you heard of that the Red army occupied abt. half of the German Empire and raped and killed millions of Germans? Have you heard of that we had Russian occupant troops in Germany till 1994?

So Finns know Russians better than me/Germans can ever know? What a cocky nonsense.

Lemminkäinen

04-02-2023, 01:52 PM

The dissolution of the Soviet Union has been used by the US-led Nato to since the dissolotion of the Soviet Union to adopt as members not just Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria, but also the former Soviet republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. This all was also against what was (outside of formal treaties) promised to the Soviet side in 1990 when it was about the German (partial) reunification. For orientation: It was formally contracted that non-German Nato troops are not allowed on the territory of the FRG that was before GDR and this is in force till this very day.

The adoption as members of all the mentioned countries could still be motivated by a pure European defence interest.

But not so with the going further USA activities. The USA tried to get Georgia into the Nato, it had used military bases in Kasachstan and lately tried the same in Tajikistan. Nothing of that has anything to do with justified defence interests of Nato countries. And all these hostile approaches are made towards Russia in a manner that the USA would never accept regarding themselves (see the Cuba crisis).

Its dominance is the USA using for its economical interests, as you amongst others things could see when it put sanctions already to the companies that built Nord Stream I. Russia (and the irrelevant Belarus) is the only remaining not manipulated by the US country in Europe. This is why the USA is that hostile towards Russia and not because of democray deficienceis and corruption. Best buddies of the USA like Saudi Arabia and Egypt prove that the USA doesn't care for such conditions.

You may like this US agenda for whatever reason, but if you don't even see it, you are not especially clear sighted to express it politely.

Soviet Union occupied East European countries, reorganized them in a sense of socialism. Did SU let them decide what kind of constitution they wanted themselves? Obviously not. After the collapse of SU countries got back their self-determination. Who can say that they had not right to decide how to arrange their security, especially after there was no more Soviet Union. The situation would have been different if the SU would have GIVEN the independenct to them and US and SU would have guarateed it together. You may say that but Poland Hungary etc were independent states already during the SU era and they were bound by an agreement after the WWII. Obviously an illusion. How about the Baltic states? Those three were not independent states, but a part of SU. After the collapse of SU they got a new full independency without bscked by any WWII agreements. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were fully independent and after the SU there was no international pacts restricting them to ally with anyone else. Would the situation have been such that Baltic states were free to decide, but for example Poland not? Finland of course is outside of all this. SU had no authority over us or SU must have had it also over Germany, Italy. My opinion is that even less in case of Finland, because we were not occupied, you were. You see this through typical German lenses and see the Europe on an axis of Russia and Germany.

rothaer

04-02-2023, 02:08 PM

Soviet Union occupied East European countries, reorganized them in a sense of socialism. Did SU let them decide what kind of constitution they wanted themselves? Obviously not. After the collapse of SU countries got back their self-determination. Who can say that they had not right to decide how to arrange their security, especially after there was no more Soviet Union. The situation would have been different if the SU would have GIVEN the independenct to them and US and SU would have guarateed it together. You may say that but Poland Hungary etc were independent states already during the SU era and they were bound by an agreement after the WWII. Obviously an illusion. How about the Baltic states? Those three were not independent states, but a part of SU. After the collapse of SU they got a new full independency without bscked by any WWII agreements. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were fully independent and after the SU there was no international pacts restricting them to ally with anyone else. Would the situation have been such that Baltic states were free to decide, but for example Poland not? Finland of course is outside of all this. SU had no authority over us or SU must have had it also over Germany, Italy. My opinion is that even less in case if Finland, because we were not occupied, you were. You see this through typical German lenses and see the Europe on an axis of Russia and Germany.

You misunderstand me if you interpret me that way that those countries would not have the freedom to apply for a membership. They are indeed free and not restricted by anything that they ever agreed on.

But I speak of the USA and the various Nato members that negociated with the Soviet Union and their acting of adopting these new members. Because they all had the power not to do (as is also much demonstrated today).

However, behind these things I see a denfense interest of various European countries (though not by the UK, France and the USA), as I expressly told. The most hostile to Russia and telling actions were the further mentioned ones, by the USA and concerning Georgia, Kasachstan and Tajikistan. And actually Syria as well with the support and encouragement of a very serious uprising, where there is one of the few Russian military strongholds (Tartus) outside of Russia.

Lemminkäinen

04-02-2023, 02:13 PM

Not being occupied is worse than being occupied by the Americans? Maybe we can switch then. You take our American occupants in Sweden or Finland or both. And you have zero experience regarding these hypocrite master manipulators.

Wants what? Cheap energy from Russia? Most of Europe wants it and big parts get it. And the German government has supported and strived for this for many years.

Have you ever heard of the GDR? Have you heard of that Russians together with Poles robbed 1/4 of the German Empire area per 1937 and supported Poles and Czechs in robbing and expelling abt. 12 million Germans and did it as well themselves? Have you heard of that the Red army occupied abt. half of the German Empire and raped and killed millions of Germans? Have you heard of that we had Russian occupant troops in Germany till 1994?

So Finns know Russians better than me/Germans can ever know? What a cocky nonsense.

And you the wrote about Finlandisierung. I guessed that you were happy.

Finnish Swede

04-02-2023, 02:13 PM

Not being occupied is worse than being occupied by the Americans? Maybe we can switch then. You take our American occupants in Sweden or Finland or both.
Ask yourself why people from DDR wanted to escape West Germany .... even risking their life?

Or why (in the end of WWII) German citizens hoped that exactlöy Western forces could arrive and occupy the country first?

Wants what? Cheap energy from Russia? Most of Europe wants it and big parts get it. And the German government has supported and strived for this for many years.
Greedy people who cares only their own stomachs, who do not believe climate change. I wish your summers will be extremely hot and dry.

So Finns know Russians better than me/Germans can ever know?
Sure, via 1000 years history. You?

rothaer

04-02-2023, 02:26 PM

[Not being occupied is worse than being occupied by the Americans? Maybe we can switch then. You take our American occupants in Sweden or Finland or both.]

Ask yourself why people from DDR wanted to escape to West Germany .... even risking their life?

Are you for real not capable of reading what I write or are you just pretending?

My strive is no occupation, and thus also not a Russian one, let alone one that introduces and maintains communism.

Finnish Swede

04-02-2023, 02:35 PM

Are you for real not capable of reading what I write or are you just pretending?

My strive is no occupation, and thus also not a Russian one, let alone one that introduces and maintains communism.

Easy to speak as you do not share 1300km common borders with them either.

BTW Lemmy ...do you believe that Russians will continue doing airspace infringement (Finland's airspace) as much as have done? And how NATO Finland (our planes but also some USA pilots from Norway) will react to those?

Lemminkäinen

04-02-2023, 02:47 PM

You misunderstand me if you interpret me that way that those countries would not have the freedom to apply for a membership. They are indeed free and not restricted by anything that they ever agreed on.

But I speak of the USA and the various Nato members that negociated with the Soviet Union and their acting of adopting these new members. Because they all had the power not to do (as is also much demonstrated today).

However, behind these things I see a denfense interest of various European countries (though not by the UK, France and the USA), as I expressly told. The most hostile to Russia and telling actions were the further mentioned ones, by the USA and concerning Georgia, Kasachstan and Tajikistan. And actually Syria as well with the support and encouragement of a very serious uprising, where there is one of the few Russian military strongholds (Tartus) outside of Russia.

USA's adventures in Iraq and Syyria are out of my horisont. I don't understand reasons, maybe oil? Neither I have no opinion about Centra Asian situation. Anyway Nato isn't there.

But I don't understand how the Sovjet Union would still be a party in any agreement regarding the situation after its collapse. I don't know Germany, but Finland terminated all agreement it had with SU. There was a lot agreement restricting our armanents and making agreements. All those signed by WWII allies. No one asked afterwards, lol. UK, France and USA could have done same I suppose. I think that you select things that support your relations with Russia, not trying to underrate your worries about your situation with your western allies.