Question for Europeans ONLY: Would you rather ....

[Avicenna]

Would you rather have two individuals from your own ethnicity to get married , bring up their children in a god conscience manner , work and provide for them and an all round family unit laying the foundation for future generations but they are Muslim OR

Individials who are atheist , non practicing Christian , agnostic, nillhist etc who are care free feminist loving left wing fanatic who will most likely not get married or have children until a later part of their life .

In the first scenario, the individuals are from the same ethnicity and the point is that would you accept people from your ethnicity to be Muslim so long as they don't marry outside of your race?

[Pashtunpapi]

Hey, how could I contact via direct message? I had some questions about Afghans and some other members.

[Occiput in Starlight]

I couldn't give a flying fuck.

[Blondie]

Second option is better, because the kids of leftists can be partriotic anytime as rebellion against their parents or these hippies have not much child so they just die out.

First option is sucks, because islam will change the european society, values etc and its permanent damage on us, unlike the first option.

[Creoda]

The latter. Leftists are already part of our culture, families etc, even if we hate it. Islam is alien.

If not for mass non-white immigration the liberal atheistic/nihilistic whites would simply be outbred by more conservative whites and the problem would solve itself.

Modern Europeans will simply never convert in large numbers to an Abrahamic religion anyway, unless their lives depend on it.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

You might as well ask which is your preferred method of suicide: by hanging or putting a shotgun barrel in your mouth.

[Jana]

I prefer leftist degeneracy rather than Islam. Islam is completely unacceptable, religion trying to conquer Europe since it's birth.

We will never accept Islam.

[Avicenna]

I'm really surprised by the answers damn .

[Zevoos]

The first option for sure.
Europeans' dislike of Islam has more to do with the poor racial qualities of its believers rather than the religion itself.

[Gallop]

I am very used to leftist couples who have a dog before a child and who celebrate when a wild boar kills a hunter or when a bull kills a bullfighter, I always believe that it is a fictitious celebration, that there is some provocation, that it cannot be real, I console myself believing that it is so and I manage it better than seeing foreigners with their strange religions and customs pretending that they are better than us and going against all the achievements and social freedoms that we Spaniards have achieved and that place us in one of the most advanced societies in the world.

[Jana]

The first option for sure.
Europeans' dislike of Islam has more to do with the poor racial qualities of its believers rather than the religion itself.

I bet you aren't European. And no.

[Zevoos]

I bet you aren't European. And no.

I bet your butthurt over Islam comes from this:
https://www.pilotguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/The-Ottoman-Empire-at-its-greatest-extent-in-1683.jpg

[Dušan]

Neither.

[Loki]

The first option for sure.
Europeans' dislike of Islam has more to do with the poor racial qualities of its believers rather than the religion itself.

Nonsense. It's got nothing to do with race.

[Loki]

Neither.

Agreed. The third option is the best: A God-fearing Christian community.

[Zevoos]

Nonsense. It's got nothing to do with race.

Of course it has to do about race. Who would you prefer as neighbors: Muslim Anglos or atheist Pakis? What about a Muslim German or a Christian Somali marrying your daughter? There you go.

[Östsvensk]

Atheism can be abandoned and has a bigger chance of reverting to Christianity than Islam has.

[Loki]

Of course it has to do about race. Who would you prefer as neighbors: Muslim Anglos or atheist Pakis? What about a Muslim German or a Christian Somali marrying your daughter? There you go.

How many atheist Pakis or Christian Somalis do you know? And I don't have a daughter.

[Zevoos]

How many atheist Pakis or Christian Somalis do you know? And I don't have a daughter.

Mine are hypothetical questions like OP's. Don't be afraid to answer.

[Zevoos]

Atheism can be abandoned and has a bigger chance of reverting to Christianity than Islam has.

Well, roughly the northern half of Africa is Muslim while the southern half is Christian. Is Congo so much different from Niger though?

[Laly]

Of course it has to do about race. Who would you prefer as neighbors: Muslim Anglos or atheist Pakis? What about a Muslim German or a Christian Somali marrying your daughter? There you go.

You came up with a map, as if it is for racial reasons that we consider Islam is repugnant. But it is not about that.

By the way, the most important Church Father in Catholicism is Augustine, who was a North African Berber.

[Jana]

I bet your butthurt over Islam comes from this:
https://www.pilotguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/The-Ottoman-Empire-at-its-greatest-extent-in-1683.jpg

Exactly and not only. Moors in Iberia, Golden Horde in Russia, Saracens in Italy.

Keep your Arabic **** in MENA.

[Jana]

Of course it has to do about race. Who would you prefer as neighbors: Muslim Anglos or atheist Pakis? What about a Muslim German or a Christian Somali marrying your daughter? There you go.

Both are undesireable.

You brown guys will never get accepted here with Islam, deal with it.

I prefer our gays and leftist. They are stupid but they are ours.

You are enemy element that will hopefully get expelled soon.

[Zevoos]

You came up with a map, as if it is for racial reasons that we consider Islam is repugnant. But it is not about that.

By the way, the most important Church Father in Catholicism is Augustine, who was a North African Berber.

So would you rather have Zambians or Bosniaks as neighbors?

[Jana]

You came up with a map, as if it is for racial reasons that we consider Islam is repugnant. But it is not about that.

For me both are connected and can't be separated from each other. In the end much of European identity was created in war against Islam.

[Jana]

Laly, I bet you take pride in this guy, born on Belgian soil:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel

In Germany some patriots took down Arabic street signs and replaced it with Charles Martell signs :)

Good guidance for the future.

[Zevoos]

Exactly and not only. Moors in Iberia, Golden Horde in Russia, Saracens in Italy.
MENAs just happen to be Muslim and Europeans just happen to be Christian because of random historic developments but imagine a alternative scenario where Islam is dominant in Europe while Christianity is dominant in the Middle East. Would you rather have Croatia conquered by Muslim Hungarians or Christian Arabs?


Keep your Arabic **** in MENA.
You're proving my point here showing it's the racial traits of Muslims what you despise and not the religion itself.

[Jana]

MENAs just happen to be Muslim and Europeans just happen to be Christian because of random historic developments but imagine a alternative scenario where Islam is dominant in Europe while Christianity is dominant in the Middle East. Would you rather have Croatia conquered by Muslim Hungarians or Christian Arabs?


You're proving my point here showing it's the racial traits of Muslims what you despise and not the religion itself.

I don't need to think about alternate history because it's a fantasy. And no, it is not random.

I don't see Europeans accepting Islamic doctrine in masses, it is completely incompatible with local mentality.

There are many Christian MENAs and I don't accept them either. I support them against muslims who abuse them of course, but they also have no place in Europe.

They can be helped in their own countries.

[Zevoos]

Laly, I bet you take pride in this guy, born on Belgian soil:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel

In Germany some patriots took down Arabic street signs and replaced it with Charles Martell signs :)

Good guidance for the future.

lol you call me Arabic **** but Martell is in my family tree.

[Jana]

lol you call me Arabic **** but Martell is in my family tree.

You are Indian of muslim background living in US, I always recognize your new accounts.

[Zevoos]

I don't need to think about alternate history because it's a fantasy. And no, it is not random.

I don't see Europeans accepting Islamic doctrine in masses, it is completely incompatible with local mentality.

There are many Christian MENAs and I don't accept them either. I support them against muslims who abuse them of course, but they also have no place in Europe.

They can be helped in their own countries.

OK you don't accept Christian MENAs and that's fine but do you accept Bosniaks? Because if you do then it's true that religion means nothing to you and it's all about race. Don't be afraid to answer.
You're in denial about what makes you so irrationally butthurt about Islam is Croatia getting raped by the Ottomans in the past.

[Jana]

OK you don't accept Christian MENAs and that's fine but do you accept Bosniaks? Because if you do then it's true that religion means nothing to you and it's all about race. Don't be afraid to answer.
You're in denial about what makes you so irrationally butthurt about Islam is Croatia getting raped by the Ottomans in the past.

Ottomans were stopped on Croatian soil my desi friend.

Bosniaks should have left Islam or left Europe just like muslims in Spain and Greece when Ottomans retreated.

And no, I wouldn't accept my child marrying muslim, Bosniak or Saudi.

[Victor]

We have no problems with ethnic groups of Russia which are Muslim, but even Russian Muslims like Tatars see Middle Asian Muslims as aliens, without any "Brother" feelings. It's not even about some conflicts but co-living, interacting, Middle Asian workers here are like living in a segregation mode, in a parallel World, I can't imagine anyone sane having an Uzbek gf or bf, while such things normally function with Tatars and in last 20 years with lots of urban Caucasian Muslims like Dagestanis. Only Chechens and Ingushs won't accept it for their tribal matters.

[Zevoos]

Ottomans were stopped on Croatian soil my desi friend.

Bosniaks should have left Islam or left Europe just like muslims in Spain and Greece when Ottomans retreated.

And no, I wouldn't accept my child marrying muslim, Bosniak or Saudi.

show bobs and vagene

[Zevoos]

We have no problems with ethnic groups of Russia which are Muslim, but even Russian Muslims like Tatars see Middle Asian Muslims as aliens, without any "Brother" feelings. It's not even about some conflicts but co-living, interacting, Middle Asian workers here are like living in a segregation mode, in a parallel World, I can't imagine anyone sane having an Uzbek gf or bf, while such things normally function with Tatars and in last 20 years with lots of urban Caucasian Muslims like Dagestanis. Only Chechens and Ingushs won't accept it for their tribal matters.

Because Tatars are racially and culturally closer to ethnic Russians despite religious differences. At the end genetics is all that matters.

[Rumata]

Bosniaks should have left Islam or left Europe just like muslims in Spain and Greece when Ottomans retreated.
The last Muslim parties left Greece later, when Greece was refused by World powers the revenge in Anatolia in 1923.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey

[rothaer]

Would you rather have two individuals from your own ethnicity to get married , bring up their children in a god conscience manner , work and provide for them and an all round family unit laying the foundation for future generations but they are Muslim OR

Individials who are atheist , non practicing Christian , agnostic, nillhist etc who are care free feminist loving left wing fanatic who will most likely not get married or have children until a later part of their life .

In the first scenario, the individuals are from the same ethnicity and the point is that would you accept people from your ethnicity to be Muslim so long as they don't marry outside of your race?

Theoretically Muslim Germans would be okay.

If there is an Arab Muhammed adored or an Aramaic Jesus is equally wrong and alien. But I‘d be concerned by this:

The next generation being Muslim would narrow down the potential mating partners to Muslims and that would extremely elevate the probability that my descendants would marry outside my ethnicity.

If this consideration is not neutralised by further preconditions of this question then I'd not be finde with the first scenario (Muslims).

[chinshen]

MENAs just happen to be Muslim and Europeans just happen to be Christian because of random historic developments


MENA didn't just happen to be Muslims, most MENA were actually Christians that were brutally conquered and subjugated by Muslim sword.
Even under those severe conditioned imposed on them by the sword for hundreds of years, many large indigenous Christian communities survived in the Middle East until the early nineteen & twentieth centuries which were mostly exterminated by another genocide during WWI and aftermath while the small remaining survivals got marginalized and scattered all over the world.

[Jana]

Because Tatars are racially and culturally closer to ethnic Russians despite religious differences. At the end genetics is all that matters.

Their authentic culture is not close to Russian lol. Neither are they racially like Russians.

They just got sovietizied culturally, and groups like Chechens avoided that.

[Rumata]

The list of noble (pre Soviet) Tatar families:
https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ruwiki/1638186

[Blondie]

Feiichy is right. Leftists are our kind, indeed they are dumb as well, but ours and we belong to each other. Just like if your son became criminal, you will not be happy but it doesnt change your blood relation with him.

Islam is a totally different thing, and absolutely incompatible with Europe and europeans. This "muslim Europe" idea is a bad joke. Rather a rainbow gay hippie than a muslim.

[Petalpusher]

Another one of those Choose between plague and cholera thread :cool:

[fortress europe]

Antifa are scum

[Avicenna]

Feiichy is right. Leftists are our kind, indeed they are dumb as well, but ours and we belong to each other. Just like if your son became criminal, you will not be happy but it doesnt change your blood relation with him.

Islam is a totally different thing, and absolutely incompatible with Europe and europeans. This "muslim Europe" idea is a bad joke. Rather a rainbow gay hippie than a muslim.

Which is why I wanted to make it clear , when I meant Muslim, I meant Muslims within your own ethnicity who marry within your own ethnicity and not outside . I see people here claiming leftists , gays , hippies and what not as their own ( which is very bizarre ) , are you claiming leftists don't exist outside of Europe? Or the ideology itself? In that case Europeans cannot claim Christianity and should therefore treat it as foreign and only accept liberalism . Alot of countries have done that in the west and now you have seen the repurcussions of it .

This thread is not to impose this idea of more immigrants coming into Europe , that's not what the intent was. I strictly said Muslims who are from your own ethnicity and they marry other Muslims from your own ethnicity.

[fortress europe]

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipMEJvBCZv45wpjniZiNqdrsHJMNl8dtGN5juZMr

[Zohor]

What kind of question is it? I would care only on people who have any influence on me so people I know and contact with, while working in manufacture/office/warehouse etc you name it I don't care what they believe in, what are their plans of having children etc, if someone acts dumb then I would prefer someone who doesn't and both types can be found in both asked groups
I am not a freaking CEO to ask or consider such questions, let me do my job, that's all.

If I wanna take care of my future I will save money for retirement and raise children to good citizens, some migrants or not until they are not in government won't influence on this sphere of my life, not everyone has to be like me(even better they aren't xD)

[oszkar07]

Would you rather have two individuals from your own ethnicity to get married , bring up their children in a god conscience manner , work and provide for them and an all round family unit laying the foundation for future generations but they are Muslim OR

Individials who are atheist , non practicing Christian , agnostic, nillhist etc who are care free feminist loving left wing fanatic who will most likely not get married or have children until a later part of their life .

In the first scenario, the individuals are from the same ethnicity and the point is that would you accept people from your ethnicity to be Muslim so long as they don't marry outside of your race?

The premise above is fantasy land unrealistic because Muslims marry Muslims,they don't marry strictly to only own race but own religion.

For example a middle eastern muslim would/could marry a south Indian Muslim,
or a Bosniak muslim could/would marry an egyptian muslim.

An anglo British Muslim could/would marry a saudi Muslim.
One of the purpose for practicing Muslims is to make more Muslims.

Simply there is no rule in Islam to marry only in ones race , the point is to Marry
another Muslim to create more Muslims and to spread the religion as far as possible.
The end goal of proactive Islam is to create a Caliphate.

[Jana]

Which is why I wanted to make it clear , when I meant Muslim, I meant Muslims within your own ethnicity who marry within your own ethnicity and not outside . I see people here claiming leftists , gays , hippies and what not as their own ( which is very bizarre ) , are you claiming leftists don't exist outside of Europe? Or the ideology itself? In that case Europeans cannot claim Christianity and should therefore treat it as foreign and only accept liberalism . Alot of countries have done that in the west and now you have seen the repurcussions of it .

This thread is not to impose this idea of more immigrants coming into Europe , that's not what the intent was. I strictly said Muslims who are from your own ethnicity and they marry other Muslims from your own ethnicity.

Islam is Universal, not ethnocentric, thus global caliphate.

But even if it wasn't, it's simply unacceptable. No self respecting European with mental health can respect and like Islam. It's like Jews liking Nazis.

Stop trolling dude. Islam is enemy religion of Europeans and fucking stop imposing your fantasy scenarios. It's unacceptable in any shape or form, no ifs or buts.

[gixajo]

You might as well ask which is your preferred method of suicide: by hanging or putting a shotgun barrel in your mouth.

Second one.

[Blondie]

Which is why I wanted to make it clear , when I meant Muslim, I meant Muslims within your own ethnicity

I have seen 1-2 muslim hungarian on internet, their behaviour was not european but similar to afghans, pakis etc. Islam will change your behaviour completely, makes them non european in every way, except genetic. A leftist person has european identity in general, this is the difference.
Oszkár said well, muslims marry to other muslims.

[Dušan]

Which is why I wanted to make it clear , when I meant Muslim, I meant Muslims within your own ethnicity who marry within your own ethnicity and not outside . I see people here claiming leftists , gays , hippies and what not as their own ( which is very bizarre ) , are you claiming leftists don't exist outside of Europe? Or the ideology itself? In that case Europeans cannot claim Christianity and should therefore treat it as foreign and only accept liberalism . Alot of countries have done that in the west and now you have seen the repurcussions of it .

This thread is not to impose this idea of more immigrants coming into Europe , that's not what the intent was. I strictly said Muslims who are from your own ethnicity and they marry other Muslims from your own ethnicity.

We have a bloody history with Muslims, and that individual who would accept Islam would no longer be considered a Serb by other Serbs.

Quite simple fact.

[rothaer]

You might as well ask which is your preferred method of suicide: by hanging or putting a shotgun barrel in your mouth.

Exactly. And that would be another interesting question.

The problem with the OP question is another. There are a number of more decisive questions as for what to assume. Will the set precondition that the Muslims in question will only marry within their own ethnicity go on enduringly or does the hypotethical question return to reality after 1 generation? Would Muslim descendants of the own ethnicity form a (odd) minority within the own ethnicity? Would Muslim descendants be assumed to only want to marry among Muslims (reality-close) of the own ethnicity or are they to be imagined as being fine with marrying non-Muslims from the same ethnicity?

[Avicenna]

Islam is Universal, not ethnocentric, thus global caliphate.

But even if it wasn't, it's simply unacceptable. No self respecting European with mental health can respect and like Islam. It's like Jews liking Nazis.

Stop trolling dude. Islam is enemy religion of Europeans and fucking stop imposing your fantasy scenarios. It's unacceptable in any shape or form, no ifs or buts.

It seems you can't have a civil conversation over what? A question? Come on man . This is the first time I've made a thread like this and I'm trolling now?

And no, just because a person is Muslim doesn't automatically make them accept other Muslims from other backgrounds , this is a false narrative. Many Muslims would prefer and actually do Marry within their own ethnicity. Me for starters , born and raised in one of the most diverse cities in the world and yet I still managed to marry an Afghan girl . I've got many examples like mine . Islam creates a worldwide brotherhood however , yes, what's wrong with that?

[Mortimer]

OP Why is that important to you? Why do you ask Europeans "only"? And what are you trying to achieve, more acceptance for the religion of islam or islamic way of life?

[Ylla]

Which ever are good people. I don’t know maybe an educated liberal family would be ideal.

[oszkar07]

OP Why is that important to you? Why do you ask Europeans "only"? And what are you trying to achieve, more acceptance for the religion of islam or islamic way of life?

obviously,

appears to be an appeal to those with conservative values by suggesting an overall conservative Islamic society is a better option than a non Islamic society which is mixed between conservative and non conservative people.

Ultimatly, the common denominator subjective agenda that is being pushed is Islam by a person who is a Muslim.

[Blondie]

appears to be an appeal to those with conservative values by suggesting an overall conservative Islamic society is a better option than a non Islamic society which is mixed between conservative and non conservative people.

Fight against Islam is part of european identity and history, so conservative whites are the most islamophobic. Nobody cares that islam is also conservative, because their conservativism is different than ours.
Btw behind this polite PC talking, most of leftist are also skeptical about Islam. They know very well, that a muslim society will not tolerate gays, trans etc peoples. Leftists are the most hypocrite peoples in this planet, they are such racist like everyone else, they are living in 100% white area, sending their childs to 100% white schools etc.

[Incal]

Ottomans were stopped on Croatian soil my desi friend.

LMAO

[Östsvensk]

obviously,

appears to be an appeal to those with conservative values by suggesting an overall conservative Islamic society is a better option than a non Islamic society which is mixed between conservative and non conservative people.

Ultimatly, the common denominator subjective agenda that is being pushed is Islam by a person who is a Muslim.

It works on some. The German user Teutone was sold on Islam being the 'conservative hope for the degenerated West'.

Andrew Tate who is SilverKnight 's hero also converted to Islam.

[oszkar07]

Fight against Islam is part of european identity and history, so conservative whites are the most islamophobic. Nobody cares that islam is also conservative, because their conservativism is different than ours.
Btw behind this polite PC talking, most of leftist are also skeptical about Islam. They know very well, that a muslim society will not tolerate gays, trans etc peoples. Leftists are the most hypocrite peoples in this planet, they are such racist like everyone else, they are living in 100% white area, sending their childs to 100% white schools etc.

Why so defensive, I just described that the OP appears to be looking for sympathetic leaning towards Islam from non muslims with conservative values ...this seems pretty obvious imo.


In many cases what you described is likely true about european white conservatives,and especially in the case of Europe where Islam has a bad reputation for the recent Terror activities in western europe and historical Ottoman invasions.

However not always true, sometimes people whom are drawn towards strong ideas such as strong laws with harsh penalty and strong discipline systems or what some might call militant views, can be drawn to belief systems that are consistant with these tendencies. (tendencies recognise tendencies).

Have you not heard about that there have been many white soldiers from western countries that have become Muslims.
They find the militant mindset appealing,
Macho,Patriarchal etc.


When I was 18 years old I was training martial arts with a white anglo Australian airforce General at an airforce base where he was living. The guy was a Muslim convert,his wife was a Malaysian Muslim. I think he told me at the time that the militant and consevative lifestyle of Islam was appealing to him.

[oszkar07]

It works on some. The German user Teutone was sold on Islam being the 'conservative hope for the degenerated West'.

Andrew Tate who is SilverKnight 's hero also converted to Islam.

Exactly, I literally just texted that to Blondie before I even saw you post this

[Avicenna]

Why so defensive, I just described that the OP appears to be looking for sympathetic leaning towards Islam from non muslims with conservative values ...this seems pretty obvious imo.


In many cases what you described is likely true about european white conservatives,and especially in the case of Europe where Islam has a bad reputation for the recent Terror activities in western europe and historical Ottoman invasions.

However not always true, sometimes people whom are drawn towards strong ideas such as strong laws with harsh penalty and strong discipline systems or what some might call militant views, can be drawn to belief systems that are consistant with these tendencies. (tendencies recognise tendencies).

Have you not heard about that there have been many white soldiers from western countries that have become Muslims.
They find the militant mindset appealing,
Macho,Patriarchal etc.


When I was 18 years old I was training martial arts with a white anglo Australian airforce General at an airforce base where he was living. The guy was a Muslim convert,his wife was a Malaysian Muslim. I think he told me at the time that the militant and consevative lifestyle of Islam was appealing to him.

My thread is intended to find out the hostility towards Muslims and the reasons which are pushed for it. I wanted to have a vague idea whether or not it would make a difference if the identity of being a Muslim from a euro ethnicity would make a difference since the idea of being Muslim is linked to refugees, immigrants etc

Islam doesnt need anyones sympathy ironically. It's the most hated religion on the planet and yet the fastest growing by converts .

I used to get quite defensive / debate members in this forum regarding religion and one thing I've accepted over here is that people are set in their ways and no matter what you provide as evidence they will never accept it .

[Creoda]

It works on some. The German user Teutone was sold on Islam being the 'conservative hope for the degenerated West'.

Andrew Tate who is SilverKnight 's hero also converted to Islam.
Teutone's political views are like a leaf blowing whichever way the wind turns.

Whites who convert to Islam are often mentally unstable people with radical politics, left or right, and likely to leave it for the same reasons. Sinead O'Connor is a good example.

[oszkar07]

My thread is intended to find out the hostility towards Muslims and the reasons which are pushed for it. I wanted to have a vague idea whether or not it would make a difference if the identity of being a Muslim from a euro ethnicity would make a difference since the idea of being Muslim is linked to refugees, immigrants etc

Islam doesnt need anyones sympathy ironically. It's the most hated religion on the planet and yet the fastest growing by converts .

I used to get quite defensive / debate members in this forum regarding religion and one thing I've accepted over here is that people are set in their ways and no matter what you provide as evidence they will never accept it .

I percieve the hostility to Islam to be from multiple factors.

Western media played a big part post 9/11 , even though now many conspiracy theorists believe 9/11 was an inside job, and these days the historical foreign policy/foreign wars of a certain big powers and activities of their intelligence agency's are treated with some suspicion even by western right wingers (these days). But the media post 9/11 was very hostile to Islam... more so than ever before.

Secondly ...in Europe and cases in USA and other places where there have been Islamic Terrorist attacks, train bombings,concert shootings, school teacher beheadings etc, Islamic state - ISIS , even though some say they may have been perhaps propped up by ---.
Large migrant ghettoes of Muslim peoples in western Europe.

Then of course history of Crusades, history of Ottoman invasions.

[Incal]

It works on some. The German user Teutone was sold on Islam being the 'conservative hope for the degenerated West'.

According to sean, he supported Islam because it would be the only way he could get some (due to arranged marriages and sht).

[Blondie]

It works on some. The German user Teutone was sold on Islam being the 'conservative hope for the degenerated West'.

Andrew Tate who is SilverKnight 's hero also converted to Islam.

Teutone is a very very rare excption.

[Östsvensk]

Teutone's political views are like a leaf blowing whichever way the wind turns.

Whites who convert to Islam are often mentally unstable people with radical politics, left or right, and likely to leave it for the same reasons. Sinead O'Connor is a good example.

I remember when we had a Swedish convert to Islam named Michael Skråmo who went and joined ISIS in Syria. The TV show Skavlan (around the time ISIS was at its peak) had a guest who I think was some scholar of religion and claimed that most of ISIS was made up of converts from Jewish and Christian families, thereby insinuating that converts tended to be the most radical of all Muslims.

[Incal]

I percieve the hostility to Islam to be from multiple factors.

I got the feeling OP is playing naïveté on purpose. It's not like 'evil intolerant' white europeans are the only people who can't stand muslims, as a matter of fact, nobody can:

Ethiopians have never liked their somalian muslim neighbors, even before any turk laid a brick in Germany or a paki set foot on the UK. Nigerians from the south despise the northern muslims who are always raiding villages and abducting people. Laly has already told us how she witnessed first hand how christians are bullied non-stop by muslims on their own ancestral lands. Communist China has little patience to their muslims and they got re-education camps for them. India has recently signed an act to not allow muslim immigrants to acquire citizenship (21th's century greatest idea so far). Islamist groups have always been a nuisance in the Philippines islands. East Timor was invaded and oppresed by muslim Indonesia for many years and the Rohingya were expelled forever from Myanmar.

As you can see, it's not an isolated case.

[oszkar07]

I got the feeling OP is playing naïveté on purpose. It's not like 'evil intolerant' white europeans are the only people who can't stand muslims, as a matter of fact, nobody can:

Ethiopians have never liked their somalian muslim neighbors, even before any turk laid a brick in Germany or a paki set foot on the UK. Nigerians from the south despise the northern muslims who are always raiding villages and abducting people. Laly has already told us how she witnessed first hand how christians are bullied non-stop by muslims on their own ancestral lands. Communist China has little patience to their muslims and they got re-education camps for them. India has recently signed an act to not allow muslim immigrants to acquire citizenship (21th's century greatest idea so far). Islamist groups have always been a nuisance in the Philippines islands. East Timor was invaded and oppresed by muslim Indonesia for many years and the Rohingya were expelled forever from Myanmar.

As you can see, it's not an isolated case.

I still think he was hoping to find sympathy with conservatives (in a small survey experiment) same way the likes of Teutone took sympatico with Islam. People are pretty gullible you only need look how many sheep follow dumbo youtubers.
Someone like Tate who has a lot of followers could probably get away with promoting Islam and there would be certain followers that would take it up.

Your right many cultures/races have had long standing hostility with Islam.

Islamic regimes at best only tolerate non Muslims as kind of 2nd class citizens.
During the Ottoman occupation half of Belgrade was Muslim at one stage and there was approxiamatly 270 Mosques (most those been destroyed by now).

[Avicenna]

I got the feeling OP is playing naïveté on purpose. It's not like 'evil intolerant' white europeans are the only people who can't stand muslims, as a matter of fact, nobody can:

Ethiopians have never liked their somalian muslim neighbors, even before any turk laid a brick in Germany or a paki set foot on the UK. Nigerians from the south despise the northern muslims who are always raiding villages and abducting people. Laly has already told us how she witnessed first hand how christians are bullied non-stop by muslims on their own ancestral lands. Communist China has little patience to their muslims and they got re-education camps for them. India has recently signed an act to not allow muslim immigrants to acquire citizenship (21th's century greatest idea so far). Islamist groups have always been a nuisance in the Philippines islands. East Timor was invaded and oppresed by muslim Indonesia for many years and the Rohingya were expelled forever from Myanmar.

As you can see, it's not an isolated case.

Neighbours not liking their neighbours . No shit Sherlock.

[Laly]

For me both are connected and can't be separated from each other. In the end much of European identity was created in war against Islam.

Muslims try to assimilate the criticism of Islam to racism, and that’s exactly what that user Zevoos does. It is highly problematic to me. Islam is an ideology, but if you make it synonymous of race, any debate becomes impossible, any criticism of Islam is diminished or becomes inaudible, discredited. It is a fundamental right to debate an ideology, to criticize an ideology, while considering people repugnant because of their race is hardly defendable, because it’s so primal. And Muslims are successful imposing this strategy amalgamating the criticism of Islam and racism, we can see it everywhere. Greatly because of that, being a scholar in Islamology has often become an absolute nightmare, it has become extremely difficult to study the genesis of Islam, its history and the expressions of Islam nowadays. There are extreme consequences to it. For ex., to give a very recent example, the scholar Florence Burgeaud-Blackler, who just published a book on the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe, does not only get tons of death threats, but she is accused of racism by her by her scholar colleagues! By the way, my Christian Palestinian friend Sami Aldeeb, a scholar specialist of Islam, who published, for ex., a very unique edition of the Quran and who studied the linguistic errors in it, was also accused of racism. To me all of that doesn’t make sense.

There are populations from the region where Islam originated that are not Muslim. They may be racially like the Muslims from the same region, but I don’t see any reason to consider these non-Muslim populations as repugnant, disgusting because of their origin. Linking Islam and race makes these non-Muslim populations even more invisible than they already are.

If you criticize the fact Islam originated in a Semitic environment, couldn’t that criticism be addressed to Christianity too?

Also, I totally agree with you when you say that the European identity was built, elaborated in opposition with Islam. It is so true and I consider Muslims who are racially European betray their Europeanness, they greatly offend it, it’s unnatural.

Furthermore, I am opposed to Muslim immigration in Europe and also to the immigration of African, of Oriental Christians in Europe, for ex. And the association I’ve been with in the Middle East doesn’t want them to come to Europe, but wants to improve their lives in their own countries and to build spiritual links with them.

The thing is that we have a real theology of nations in Christianity. Under the name of motherland or of nation, Christianity, religion of the Incarnation, has praised, throughout centuries, the attachment of men towards their country, its traditions, its culture, its history. There is, historically, no confusion between Christianity’s universalism and the despise of borders and of particular identities. And this is based on the Bible.

Here are some recent ex. expressing this.

Letter of pope John Paul II to the director of the Unesco, in 1995:

« En effet, la personne humaine ne peut être considérée dans sa seule existence individuelle; elle a une dimension sociale. C’est précisément dans les communautés que se réalise pour une grande part l’épanouissement de la personne. »

The text is on Vatican’s website, but it’s not available in English.

Here is my translation: “In fact, the human person cannot be considered in its sole individual existence; it has a social dimension. It’s precisely within the communities that a great part of the person’s blossoming is achieved.”

https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/fr/letters/1995/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_19951014_unesco-anniversario.html

John Paul II’s homily in Warsaw in 1979:

“[…] Man cannot be understood apart from this community that is constituted by the nation. Of course it is not the only community, but it is a special community, perhaps that most intimately linked with the family, the most important for the spiritual history of man.”

https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/homilies/1979/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_19790602_polonia-varsavia.html

So, the nations have a role in the divine plan, with their history, their customs, their culture, their traditions, their people. We are not destined to become an undifferentiated magma. This is why I am firmly opposed to immigration, even that of African, Middle Eastern Christians, for ex.

On the other hand, in Islam nations have no legitimacy. There is only one nation that counts, the Islamic nation, the ummah.

[chinshen]

Neighbours not liking their neighbours . No shit Sherlock.

It is more like outsiders that conquered by force, took over then became neighbors and almost eliminated and pushed out the remnants of the original hosting nations.

[Laly]

Laly, I bet you take pride in this guy, born on Belgian soil:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel

In Germany some patriots took down Arabic street signs and replaced it with Charles Martell signs :)

Good guidance for the future.

Nice initiative! I didn't know about it.

[Laly]

I don't need to think about alternate history because it's a fantasy. And no, it is not random.

I don't see Europeans accepting Islamic doctrine in masses, it is completely incompatible with local mentality.

There are many Christian MENAs and I don't accept them either. I support them against muslims who abuse them of course, but they also have no place in Europe.

They can be helped in their own countries.

Maybe, indeed, Europeans wouldn’t accept Islamic doctrine in masses. Nevertheless, there are European populations that have already converted to Islam. And throughout the world, very diverse populations, with different cultures, have converted to Islam.

[Laly]

The premise above is fantasy land unrealistic because Muslims marry Muslims,they don't marry strictly to only own race but own religion.

For example a middle eastern muslim would/could marry a south Indian Muslim,
or a Bosniak muslim could/would marry an egyptian muslim.

An anglo British Muslim could/would marry a saudi Muslim.
One of the purpose for practicing Muslims is to make more Muslims.

Simply there is no rule in Islam to marry only in ones race , the point is to Marry
another Muslim to create more Muslims and to spread the religion as far as possible.
The end goal of proactive Islam is to create a Caliphate.

Actually, it is forbidden for Muslim women to marry a non-Muslim man. On the other hand, Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but their children will automatically be Muslim.

[Avicenna]

It is more like outsiders that conquered by force, took over then became neighbors and almost eliminated and pushed out the remnants of the original hosting nations.

Why are you talking about the Spanish inquisition?

Or were you referring to the genocide of the Natives?

Maybe the aboriginals?

No?

[Avicenna]

Maybe, indeed, Europeans wouldn’t accept Islamic doctrine in masses. Nevertheless, there are European populations that have already converted to Islam. And throughout the world, very diverse populations, with different cultures, have converted to Islam.


https://youtu.be/iEo5e5g1IVI


https://youtu.be/s41MgITFpQM


https://youtu.be/rPwtX0iokuI


https://youtu.be/O5fbyEV36pU


https://youtu.be/yXCMU72z0Ms


https://youtu.be/JINrOTvppuU

[chinshen]

Why are you talking about the Spanish inquisition?

Or were you referring to the genocide of the Natives?

Maybe the aboriginals?

No?

No, I am referring to most countries that you like to call "Muslim Lands" as a result of the Islamic conquest of Northern Middle East including Anatolia/Mesopotamia/Levant, North Africa (Egypt included), big chunk of Southern and Eastern Europe and big part of Indian Sub-continent.

[Avicenna]

No, I am referring to most countries that you like to call "Muslim Lands" as a result of the Islamic conquest of Northern Middle East including Anatolia/Mesopotamia/Levant, North Africa (Egypt included), big chunk of Southern and Eastern Europe and big part of Indian Sub-continent.

Why dont you mention south east Asia?

Islam spread by the sword , yes it did . I'm glad it did, otherwise it would have been swallowed by either the byzantines or Persians. A small tribe of Arabs conquering the two biggest empires at the time and taking half of the world.

Alhamdulilah.

[chinshen]

Why dont you mention south east Asia?

Islam spread by the sword , yes it did . I'm glad it did, otherwise it would have been swallowed by either the byzantines or Persians. A small tribe of Arabs conquering the two biggest empires at the time and taking half of the world.

Alhamdulilah.

At least you don't deny it, I give you that much credit. You must be a very proud believer in the religion of peace then, I don't need to say more than that.

[B01AB20]

https://youtu.be/iEo5e5g1IVI



It would be nice to see people who abondoned Islam and they can speak freely about it. Could you provide some testimony like that?

Like this for example :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDTi71c6Gbk

[Tooting Carmen]

It would be nice to see people who abondoned Islam and they can speak freely about it. Could you provide some testimony like that?

Like this for example :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDTi71c6Gbk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bafX7LkJYY&pp=ygUkbWFyeWFtIG5hbWF6aWUgY291bmNpbCBvZiBleCBtdXN saW1z

[oszkar07]

Actually, it is forbidden for Muslim women to marry a non-Muslim man. On the other hand, Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but their children will automatically be Muslim.

Where did I say a Muslim woman can marry a non muslim man ???

I already knew that muslim women cant marry non muslims and in general have far less rights.

I have a friend who is muslim as his father is muslim his mother is anglo non muslim,

I already knew about this.

[Laly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bafX7LkJYY&pp=ygUkbWFyeWFtIG5hbWF6aWUgY291bmNpbCBvZiBleCBtdXN saW1z

As the extremely prominent scholar of Islam Yusuf al-Qaradawi said, "without the command of death punishment for apostasy, Islam wouldn't exist anymore":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB9UdXAP82o

[Laly]

Where did I say a Muslim woman can marry a non muslim man ???

I already knew that muslim women cant marry non muslims and in general have far less rights.

I have a friend who is muslim as his father is muslim his mother is anglo non muslim,

I already knew about this.

I was bringing a precision, which was not implied by what you said and it's not only for you that I make this precision.

[Avicenna]

At least you don't deny it, I give you that much credit. You must be a very proud believer in the religion of peace then, I don't need to say more than that.

Islam is not a religion of peace . That's some compassion comprising leftist liberal Muslim thinking.

Islam gives you peace . True peace . Tranquility, in this life and God willing in the next life .

We are not Pacifists and never will be. If you smack me, I'll smack you back . BUT if you stop I will too.

Islam is a threat to every ideology and ism out there , hence the hostility towards it . It breaks every barrier and taboo , stigma there is in society . Its hated by everyone because it stands against everything the evil desires yearns for .

Christians hate Muslims just like the Jews hate Christians .

Why? Because not all religions can be right , if one is right then by default everything else is wrong . I know Manu people envy Muslims because they have not succumbed to this liberal western idealogy which destroys the very thing god has warned us against . I've yet to come across a single Christian who practices Christianity correctly. And I live in England . It's sad .

[Avicenna]

It would be nice to see people who abondoned Islam and they can speak freely about it. Could you provide some testimony like that?

Like this for example :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDTi71c6Gbk

Salmon Rushdie ? Really ?

[Avicenna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bafX7LkJYY&pp=ygUkbWFyeWFtIG5hbWF6aWUgY291bmNpbCBvZiBleCBtdXN saW1z

Ive yet to come across a single "ex Muslim " with a valid argument as to why they believe Islam is false . It's all based on theirs whims and desires because they couldnt succumb to the western liberal idealogy , hence why many of them have a deep rooted inferiority complex layered within them .

I can see it a mile away .

Especially Iranians lol.

[Avicenna]

As the extremely prominent scholar of Islam Yusuf al-Qaradawi said, "without the command of death punishment for apostasy, Islam wouldn't exist anymore":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB9UdXAP82o

Let's not get ahead of ourselves , when Europe was in the hands of Christian power you saw how dark it really got . Why don't you address all the early Christian sects who were wiped out for believing Jesus was not God and a Messiah Mrs Kum-baya ?

If you accept his statement above then you should also accept his other statements which I'm very sure you disagree with because it doesn't suit your narrative .

You cannot force someone to believe in something . It doesn't make sense at all. Islam was accepted by the people because it connected with the human mind and soul .

Meanwhile you are still trying to figure out if God is 3 or 1.

[Avicenna]

https://youtu.be/9yARPq35lBw

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Islam is not a religion of peace . That's some compassion comprising leftist liberal Muslim thinking.

True. That is why Islam is a threat.



Islam gives you peace . True peace . Tranquility, in this life and God willing in the next life .

Every true believer in a religion or cult has peace. It's a psychological comfort. That doesn't make the religion or cult true.


We are not Pacifists and never will be. If you smack me, I'll smack you back . BUT if you stop I will too.

A religion that promotes conquest will be confronted by people who will do more than smack.


Islam is a threat to every ideology and ism out there , hence the hostility towards it . It breaks every barrier and taboo , stigma there is in society . Its hated by everyone because it stands against everything the evil desires yearns for .

Islam is a threat in that it promotes violence.


Christians hate Muslims just like the Jews hate Christians .

It's the reverse. Muslims hate Christians. The typical Christian is respectful of both Jews and Muslims. Christians aren't burning down mosques in Europe.


Why? Because not all religions can be right , if one is right then by default everything else is wrong . I know Manu people envy Muslims because they have not succumbed to this liberal western idealogy which destroys the very thing god has warned us against . I've yet to come across a single Christian who practices Christianity correctly. And I live in England . It's sad .

No one envies failed societies.

Nice trolling, though.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves , when Europe was in the hands of Christian power you saw how dark it really got . Why don't you address all the early Christian sects who were wiped out for believing Jesus was not God and a Messiah Mrs Kum-baya ?

If you accept his statement above then you should also accept his other statements which I'm very sure you disagree with because it doesn't suit your narrative .

You cannot force someone to believe in something . It doesn't make sense at all. Islam was accepted by the people because it connected with the human mind and soul .

Meanwhile you are still trying to figure out if God is 3 or 1.

Historically people accepted Islam because they didn't want to be taxed, lolz.

Is this guy for real? You live in the UK. Why don't you go live in a Muslim nation? Ah, right. Muslim nations blow.


Meanwhile you are still trying to figure out if God is 3 or 1.

Muslims struggle with metaphysics. Is God omnipotent? Why do Muslims put restrictions on an omnipotent being?

[Blondie]

And I live in England . It's sad .

Yeah its sad, why dont you go back to Afghanistan?

[Incal]

Andrew Tate who is SilverKnight 's hero also converted to Islam.

Now that he is on his redneck wannabe phase, I wonder how is he going to conciliate both concepts.




Neighbours not liking their neighbours . No shit Sherlock.

Do portuguese hate the spanish? Do germans hate austrians? Do yanks hate canucks? I've never heard of that.




Is this guy for real? You live in the UK. Why don't you go live in a Muslim nation? Ah, right. Muslim nations blow.


I've observed Islam adoctrination leave no room for self-criticism. I have always wondered if muslims ever ask themselves how the hell did they end up living in christian cultures if their Ummah is the best thing in the world, or how they deal with that contradiction... just block it mentally? Also, gratitude seem to be another non-existent concept.



For me both are connected and can't be separated from each other. In the end much of European identity was created in war against Islam.

Islam has always been considered a threat to Europe, since time immemorial:

Una parte del mondo è che si giace
mai sempre in ghiaccio et in gelate nevi
tutta lontana dal camin del sole:
là sotto i giorni nubilosi et brevi,
nemica natural-mente di pace,
nasce una gente a cui il morir non dole.
Questa se, piú devota che non sòle,
col tedesco furor la spada cigne,
turchi, arabi et caldei,
con tutti quei che speran nelli dèi
di qua dal mar che fa l'onde sanguigne,
quanto sian da prezzar, conoscer dêi:
popolo ignudo paventoso et lento,
che ferro mai non strigne,
ma tutt'i colpi suoi commette al vento.

[chinshen]

Historically people accepted Islam because they didn't want to be taxed, lolz.

Is this guy for real? You live in the UK. Why don't you go live in a Muslim nation? Ah, right. Muslim nations blow.


Or even worse "Axed".

[Todesritter]

The latter; the correct life circumstances can amend their view and there's hope they'll find genuine values, appreciation for the blood and soil of their home and make something of themselves. And if they don't have kids, they're not polluting the gene pool. A white atheist is still white, and probably influenced by the morals and conventions of Christian Europe, therefore at a greater chance of being a decent person.

Islam is an evil religion and its values are fundamentally uneuropean and fundamentally corrupting for being here at all. There's no point at which I'll accept it. There's no place for it here and there never will be. I would actually be all the more appalled to see whites bringing up their children in Islam than to see MENAs doing it.

[chinshen]

Islam is not a religion of peace . That's some compassion comprising leftist liberal Muslim thinking.


I believe you are correct.



We are not Pacifists and never will be. If you smack me, I'll smack you back . BUT if you stop I will too.
.

First part true. Second one not so true, you will only stop after you got your hands on everything that others own. You feel entitled to take everything that belongs to others (God given right).




Islam is a threat to every ideology and ism out there , hence the hostility towards it . It breaks every barrier and taboo , stigma there is in society . Its hated by everyone because it stands against everything the evil desires yearns for .


Yes it is a great threat not because of what you mentioned, but because Muslims feels superior since they had gotten permission from God to destroy anyone that does not adhere to their beliefs.



Christians hate Muslims just like the Jews hate Christians .
.

I am not so sure about this one. Christians from Europe, U.S, Canada, Australia & New Zealand have been accepting millions of Muslim refugees & Immigrants and in many cases families are opening their homes for Muslims refugees. I wish your other Muslim brothers from your Islamic nations have done a fraction of that to help your fellow Muslims.

Jews hate Christians is another subject not related to this one.



Why? Because not all religions can be right , if one is right then by default everything else is wrong.

You are absolutely right, but who made you the judge?
Let God be the judge to determine who is wrong and who is right.



I know Manu people envy Muslims because they have not succumbed to this liberal western idealogy which destroys the very thing god has warned us against . I've yet to come across a single Christian who practices Christianity correctly. And I live in England . It's sad .

Only in your mind, no one really envies Muslims on anything. If that was true, then you would see millions and millions of Christians from all around the world flocking to immigrate to Muslim ruled countries, but the fact is exactly the opposite, you are a good example of that considering where you prefer to live.

[catgeorge]

Prefer leftists over Islamics.
Just because we are conservative desn't mean we are oppressive like the Islamic religion likes to educate.
On a second thought we are oppressive against aliens like Mudslimes but not the retarded leftists.
In a war against mudslimes leftists will fight mudslimes shoulder against shoulder with me and I with him and with great confidence.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I am not so sure about this one. Christians from Europe, U.S, Canada, Australia & New Zealand have been accepting millions of Muslim refugees & Immigrants and in many cases families are opening their homes for Muslims refugees. I wish your other Muslim brothers from your Islamic nations have done a fraction of that to help your fellow Muslims.

They treat Palestinian Muslims like shit. They are quick to throw the Palestinians under the bus.

[Babak]

Ive yet to come across a single "ex Muslim " with a valid argument as to why they believe Islam is false . It's all based on theirs whims and desires because they couldnt succumb to the western liberal idealogy , hence why many of them have a deep rooted inferiority complex layered within them .

I can see it a mile away .

Especially Iranians lol.

Islam is dead in Iran due to a mixture of factors actually. Its not due to a single reason.

Zoroastrianism is becoming very popular in the Gen Z population as a matter of fact.

[oszkar07]

I was bringing a precision, which was not implied by what you said and it's not only for you that I make this precision.

Yes the Muslim man can take a non Muslim bride.

But the essence which I stated and implied is that the making of more Muslims is simply achieved through the couple having children (as many as possible) then the Father will always oversee that they are raised as Muslims. Given Muslim names at birth and instructed at Islamic religious studies from the earliest of age.

[Petalpusher]

We should ask if Palestinians would rather convert to Judaism or get sprayed every day with white phosphore, cause that's a valid dilemma to propose.

[Tooting Carmen]

Do portuguese hate the spanish?

Some do actually, since they resent the fact that some people think that Portuguese and Spanish "are the same language", and also there is a lingering suspicion that Spain may wish to re-conquer Portugal.


Do germans hate austrians? Do yanks hate canucks?

Not really, but in both pairings the other way round is far from unusual.


I've observed Islam adoctrination leave no room for self-criticism.

In the Golden Age of Islam there was the tradition of ijtihad, or independent thinking. Somehow it got lost over the centuries.


I have always wondered if muslims ever ask themselves how the hell did they end up living in christian cultures if their Ummah is the best thing in the world, or how they deal with that contradiction.

(In part playing devil's advocate): It goes both ways, as there are plenty of Westerners, whether secular, Christian and maybe even Jewish, who live in the Gulf Arab states, and don't forget all the pied-noir settlers in Algeria.

[Jana]

Yeah its sad, why dont you go back to Afghanistan?

Because currently there are no patriots in power who would deport him back to where he belongs.

Current Afghanistan is ruled by devoted muslims. He is Afghan, he is muslim. That's where he belongs.

Fast deportation and revoking of UK citizenship (if he has it) is best solution for him and others like him. Of course with entire families.

[Zevoos]

Muslims try to assimilate the criticism of Islam to racism, and that’s exactly what that user Zevoos does. It is highly problematic to me. Islam is an ideology, but if you make it synonymous of race, any debate becomes impossible, any criticism of Islam is diminished or becomes inaudible, discredited. It is a fundamental right to debate an ideology, to criticize an ideology, while considering people repugnant because of their race is hardly defendable, because it’s so primal. And Muslims are successful imposing this strategy amalgamating the criticism of Islam and racism, we can see it everywhere. Greatly because of that, being a scholar in Islamology has often become an absolute nightmare, it has become extremely difficult to study the genesis of Islam, its history and the expressions of Islam nowadays. There are extreme consequences to it. For ex., to give a very recent example, the scholar Florence Burgeaud-Blackler, who just published a book on the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe, does not only get tons of death threats, but she is accused of racism by her by her scholar colleagues! By the way, my Christian Palestinian friend Sami Aldeeb, a scholar specialist of Islam, who published, for ex., a very unique edition of the Quran and who studied the linguistic errors in it, was also accused of racism. To me all of that doesn’t make sense.

I actually said that Islam is just an ideology and Europeans' dislike of Muslims has more to do with their racial traits than their religion. I don't want either but if I had to choose I'd rather have Muslim neighbors of my own ethnicity than Christian or atheist acculturated Arab neighbors.
You're making the same arguments but resist to accept this. Of course everything is hypothetical but that's the fun of the thread.

[Blondie]

Because currently there are no patriots in power who would deport him back to where he belongs.

Current Afghanistan is ruled by devoted muslims. He is Afghan, he is muslim. That's where he belongs.

Fast deportation and revoking of UK citizenship (if he has it) is best solution for him and others like him. Of course with entire families.

Its so interesting that every west hater muslim or black "patriot" dont wanna live in their original country/continent.

[Zevoos]

Its so interesting that every west hater muslim or black "patriot" dont wanna live in their original country/continent.

And they don't want to live in their own enclaves in the West, don't want to send their children to schools with a majority of their own ethnic group, etc. In short they hate to be around their own people -> they hate themselves. But to be fair this is applicable to many Europeans as well.

[Victor]

I see no problem with Islamic sects and ethnic groups where traditional, dogmatical Islam was perverted in an ethnic way. As I've mentioned, Tatars being Muslims (very different ones from some allah-fearing Salafi from Saudi Arabia) are not any kind of problem for the Russians or Russian state. They're good citizens, they love order, they serve in army, they have own republic where they normally live 50/50 with Russians, they're sportsmen, artists, actors, scientists, a normal part of our society. It's always good when some of them convert to Orthodoxy (enough of them do it), but even such "cultural islam" Tatars are ok. And yea, they dislike non-Tatar Muslims, especially those from Central Asia. Lots of them had to leave Uzbekistan, Tajikistan just like Russians in 90s.

[Aspirin]

Its so interesting that every west hater muslim or black "patriot" dont wanna live in their original country/continent.

You forgot Balkanites.

[Incal]

Some do actually, since they resent the fact that some people think that Portuguese and Spanish "are the same language", and also there is a lingering suspicion that Spain may wish to re-conquer Portugal.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




Not really, but in both pairings the other way round is far from unusual.

You always like to compare the exception rather than the rule. That's why nobody takes you seriously here.




In the Golden Age of Islam there was the tradition of ijtihad, or independent thinking. Somehow it got lost over the centuries.

Since we got no time machine, that argument is also irrelevant.




(In part playing devil's advocate): It goes both ways, as there are plenty of Westerners, whether secular, Christian and maybe even Jewish, who live in the Gulf Arab states, and don't forget all the pied-noir settlers in Algeria.

And what's the proportion? 30% of the muslim world in Europe compared to 0.5% europeans in the Gulf?

[coolfrenchguy]

I see no problem with Islamic sects and ethnic groups where traditional, dogmatical Islam was perverted in an ethnic way. As I've mentioned, Tatars being Muslims (very different ones from some allah-fearing Salafi from Saudi Arabia) are not any kind of problem for the Russians or Russian state. They're good citizens, they love order, they serve in army, they have own republic where they normally live 50/50 with Russians, they're sportsmen, artists, actors, scientists, a normal part of our society. It's always good when some of them convert to Orthodoxy (enough of them do it), but even such "cultural islam" Tatars are ok. And yea, they dislike non-Tatar Muslims, especially those from Central Asia. Lots of them had to leave Uzbekistan, Tajikistan just like Russians in 90s.

if you debunking piece by piece islam, you will end to the conclusion that's it's was all invented from all parts by the abassids,than muhammad never exist,and than the quran it's the most schizophrenic brainwashing ever made ,because it's overwhelming of the worse non-sens ever,where you could more or less have open minded views with all the others people,islam is the cancer of the consciousness,the eradication and the anihilation of the free will, a religious tyranny

[Incal]

Islam is dead in Iran due to a mixture of factors actually. Its not due to a single reason.

Zoroastrianism is becoming very popular in the Gen Z population as a matter of fact.

So would you say only the regime is Islamist? Would you mind to elaborate why you think Islam is dead in Iran? Maybe in another thread?



Because currently there are no patriots in power who would deport him back to where he belongs.

Current Afghanistan is ruled by devoted muslims. He is Afghan, he is muslim. That's where he belongs.

Fast deportation and revoking of UK citizenship (if he has it) is best solution for him and others like him. Of course with entire families.

I'd vote for president Feiichy.

[Victor]

if you debunking piece by piece islam, you will end to the conclusion that's it's was all invented from all parts by the abassids,than muhammad never exist,and than the quran it's the most schizophrenic brainwashing ever made ,because it's overwhelming of the worse non-sens ever,where you could more or less have open minded views with all the others people,islam is the cancer of the consciousness,the eradication and the anihilation of the free will, a religious tyranny

Every religion except for Christianity is lies, we're not discussing it.

[Victor]

You forgot Balkanites.

Significant amount of ex-Yu people see Western Europe as a place to earn money, not a place where they want to stay forever. While some, let's say 20% of those who moved are spitting on their homeland badly, in a kind of pathological auto chauvinist way, literally worshiping the West.

[Hektor12]

Current Afghanistan is ruled by devoted muslims. He is Afghan, he is muslim. That's where he belongs.

To be fair, everybody has their own religious camp, like catholics, orthodoxes, protestants and others in christianity. Maybe he doesnt like what kind of musulmanity Taliban forces on people. But the contradiction is he also thinks that his variant of musulmanity is perfect and should be the base of life, while living on sin in a christian country. There we approach a definition= Hypocrisy.

[Victor]

To be fair, everybody has their own religious camp, like catholics, orthodoxes, protestants and others in christianity. Maybe he doesnt like what kind of musulmanity Taliban forces on people. But the contradiction is he also thinks that his variant of musulmanity is perfect and should be the base of life, while living on sin in a christian country. There we approach a definition= Hypocrisy.

Why hypocrisy, non Muslim lands are called "Land of War" and true Muslims should actively infest such lands. There's no contradiction with Islam like at all.

[Kriptc06]

Some do actually, since they resent the fact that some people think that Portuguese and Spanish "are the same language", and also there is a lingering suspicion that Spain may wish to re-conquer Portugal.

What are you on about? Spain never ever ever ever conquered Portugual, every battle they fought they lost, there's no reconquering of what was never conquered before.

There's no movement and no desire to unify, and Lord forbid that ever happening in the far future, Portuguese identity and language is solid and old, and it's based on being non-spanish, only delusional people would argue the opposite.

[Hektor12]

Why hypocrisy

If you are living peacefully in a non-muslim part of the world and not attempting to conquer there at expense of your life, you are a hypocrite.


living on sin in a christian country

Peacefully, without disturbing the owners of the land, not conquering that; While


true Muslims should actively infest such lands

[Tooting Carmen]

What are you on about? Spain never ever ever ever conquered Portugual, every battle they fought they lost, there's no reconquering of what was never conquered before.

Iberia was once upon a time united.


There's no movement and no desire to unify, and Lord forbid that ever happening in the far future, Portuguese identity and language is solid and old, and it's based on being non-spanish, only delusional people would argue the opposite.

That is more what I am talking about.

[Babak]

So would you say only the regime is Islamist? Would you mind to elaborate why you think Islam is dead in Iran? Maybe in another thread?




I'd vote for president Feiichy.

Mainly, yes. One major reason is the resentment towards Arabs that invaded Iran. Of course, this was 1500 years ago, but many iranians still cant get over it. Another reason is the gen z population simply dont care for religion, whether itd be islam, christianity or judaism. The rest just find Islam to be a violent religion and are "reverting" so to speak back to Zoroastrianism. I strongly believe that Iranians were never really Muslim in the first place. The conversion was to evade heavy taxes and Zoroastrians just lived through it. Even when the safavids took control, the zoroastrian population was much more before they butchered them into pieces.

Islam has been on the decline for the past 5-6 years or so anyway so its expected.

[Avicenna]

Its so interesting that every west hater muslim or black "patriot" dont wanna live in their original country/continent.

Why do you assume I don't? I am thinking of relocating possible to Qatar as it's better to raise my children there and economically much better for me due to my career.

With that being said, i love this country, I like learning about the history of the English ( Anglo saxons etc ) and I abide by the laws of this country all my life . My family and family Members , relatives etc are academics , business owners which have contributed to the society for 30 Years, however when ethnic English themselves are tired of this turmoil with the government , financial struggles, leftist LGBT propaganda etc then the best decision to make is to leave this country . It's only going to get worse and I don't want to raise my children where they are taught that you can change your gender at 3 years old .

If Afghanistan was economically in a better situation I wouldn't mind going back there .

I'm against immigrants from Islamic world coming to Europe.

If you want live a safer life which is good for your religion especially then they should move to higher socio economic Muslim countries like Qatar , UAE, Turkey , Malaysia.

[B01AB20]

^^^^

And then they say leftistsLGBTITransGerder are a cancer for society... ;)

but if they're the solution to muslim problem??

lol

[Avicenna]

^^^^

And then they say leftistsLGBTITransGerder are a cancer for society... ;)

but if they're the solution to muslim problem??

lol

It is a cancer to society , a devastating cancer .

[Mejgusu]

If anyone says anything against Europe, then they start with lgbt. Yes, I think some political movements are ridiculous, but I support that gay people aren’t oppressed anymore. When I was 16 I said oh no thats stupid but the only stupid thing was my opinion, they should be able to marry and adopt children. And this leftism argument is very annoying, as if some idiot talks about it. Leftism means fighting for social and economic equality, not for woke ideology. Leftist, right wing or religious extremism is always stupid and dangerous.(West)Europeans did choose moderate ideologies after the second world war and Europe became a paradise. You guys are annoying, talking about the same nonsense.

[B01AB20]

It is a cancer to society , a devastating cancer .

There have always been gays and lesbians, since ancient times. And transgerders too, in very small amount, it's an hormonal imbalance, not a demonic possesion.

The promotion of transgerderism in childhood nowadays for some political parties is disgusting yeah, but it's a very contested option, it has to be seen if it becomes permanent or it's a temporary fashion. It's a cold more than a cancer.

What is a social cancer to me is regarding women as posessions and inferior beings, the subordination of the state to religious authoritarian fanatics, the subjugation of free thought and personal/social fredoom to religious authoritarian fanatics.

Everyone has their values, you would be comfortably living in societies like Iran or Afghanistan, and for most of europeans it would be like hell in earth.

[Dick]

I don't understand the negativity towards the muslims. It's the leftists that's letting them into your countries.

[Incal]

^^^^

And then they say leftistsLGBTITransGerder are a cancer for society... ;)

but if they're the solution to muslim problem??

lol

Maybe a couple of muslims will leave in disgust. Most of them though, will probably gang assault trannies and a couple will even rape them (we all know muslim hipocricy). As a matter of fact, I'm surprised to haven't heard it yet. Probably the marxist media is hiding it...

[Tooting Carmen]

Maybe a couple of muslims will leave in disgust. Most of them though, will probably gang assault trannies and a couple will even rape them (we all know muslim hipocricy). As a matter of fact, I'm surprised to haven't heard it yet. Probably the marxist media is hiding it...

(1) Actually, Iran and Pakistan since the 1980's have legalised sex-change operations, since they regard transgenderism as a more socially acceptable 'alternative' to homosexuality. (2) I am not sure about attacks on transgenders, but in London and Amsterdam a very high percentage of attacks on gays are indeed perpetrated by Muslims.

[Ylla]

Why do you assume I don't? I am thinking of relocating possible to Qatar as it's better to raise my children there and economically much better for me due to my career.

With that being said, i love this country, I like learning about the history of the English ( Anglo saxons etc ) and I abide by the laws of this country all my life . My family and family Members , relatives etc are academics , business owners which have contributed to the society for 30 Years, however when ethnic English themselves are tired of this turmoil with the government , financial struggles, leftist LGBT propaganda etc then the best decision to make is to leave this country . It's only going to get worse and I don't want to raise my children where they are taught that you can change your gender at 3 years old .

If Afghanistan was economically in a better situation I wouldn't mind going back there .

I'm against immigrants from Islamic world coming to Europe.

If you want live a safer life which is good for your religion especially then they should move to higher socio economic Muslim countries like Qatar , UAE, Turkey , Malaysia.

What are LGBT doing to you though? It’s so hypocritical because they deserve to have the same rights that you have aswell.

[Avicenna]

What are LGBT doing to you though? It’s so hypocritical because they deserve to have the same rights that you have aswell.

It's not only that , there are many things that are getting worse day by day . If you have no problem with that then good on you, however I do not want that agenda forced upon me or my children .

[Ylla]

It's not only that , there are many things that are getting worse day by day . If you have no problem with that then good on you, however I do not want that agenda forced upon me or my children .

Ok fair enough, I would suggest you do that before you have children as it’s difficult to uproot small children. UAE is great for families and there’s lots of western expats so you won’t feel out of place. With all the difficulties uk is facing right now, it will still be home to you though. I’m also thinking to relocate, but to raise my children with extended family, otherwise I wouldn’t have. The uk is going through a tough time at the moment so I understand. I still consider it the best country in the world (biased). British culture is unique :)