Gedmatch results of an Italian from Croatia!

[CommonSense]

Someone pointed out to me that I match this guy on gedmatch. He has a wikitree and a gedcom with a detailed list of recent ancestors. They are all people with Italian names from Istria and Rijeka. I've never seen a DNA result of any kind of an Italian from Croatia, given how few of them there are.

Either way, this is extremely interesting. In his case, language and ethnicity is in contrast with admixture. I have no idea whether or not that's the case for all Italians from Istria and nearby.


Eurogenes K13:






Kit TE9900594

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.49
2 North_Atlantic 22.23
3 East_Med 17.34
4 West_Med 16.54
5 West_Asian 10.05
6 East_Asian 0.82
7 Oceanian 0.3
8 Siberian 0.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 6.87
2 Serbian 6.9
3 Romanian 7.79
4 Bulgarian 8.34
5 Croatian 9.21
6 Hungarian 11.64
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.99
8 Austrian 15.71
9 Ukrainian 15.8
10 South_Polish 15.81
11 East_German 16.63
12 Greek_Thessaly 17.06
13 Southwest_Russian 18.43
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.66
15 Polish 19.19
16 Russian_Smolensk 20.68
17 Estonian_Polish 21.08
18 Belorussian 21.72
19 West_German 21.85
20 North_Italian 22.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.9% Bulgarian + 23.1% Lithuanian @ 3
2 70% Bulgarian + 30% Southwest_Russian @ 3.01
3 70.4% Bulgarian + 29.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.12
4 72.9% Bulgarian + 27.1% Estonian_Polish @ 3.12
5 73.6% Bulgarian + 26.4% Belorussian @ 3.24
6 66.8% Bulgarian + 33.2% Ukrainian @ 3.26
7 72.7% Bulgarian + 27.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.28
8 52.3% Greek_Thessaly + 47.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.62
9 52% Greek_Thessaly + 48% Southwest_Russian @ 3.63
10 71.2% Ukrainian + 28.8% Cyprian @ 3.71
11 71.6% Bulgarian + 28.4% Polish @ 3.74
12 75.8% Bulgarian + 24.2% Erzya @ 3.75
13 60.6% Ukrainian + 39.4% Central_Greek @ 3.78
14 66.1% Bulgarian + 33.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.81
15 60.8% Greek_Thessaly + 39.2% Lithuanian @ 3.82
16 77.8% Bulgarian + 22.2% Estonian @ 3.86
17 52% Ukrainian + 48% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.86
18 67.5% Bulgarian + 32.5% South_Polish @ 3.86
19 75.3% Bulgarian + 24.7% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.88
20 52.2% Central_Greek + 47.8% Lithuanian @ 3.89





Vahaduo distances with the updated spreadsheet:






TE9900594,22.23,32.49,16.54,10.05,17.34,0,0,0.82,0 .23,0,0.3,0,0

Distance to: TE9900594
4.25511457 Serb_CentralCroatia
4.48844071 Bosniak_Southeast
4.51602701 Serb_EastSerbia
4.58307757 Moldovan_South
4.64595523 Moldovan_Central
4.78820426 Croat_Herzegovina
4.85690230 Serb_BosanskaKrajina
4.95510848 Serb_CentralSerbia
4.99370604 Serb_Lika
5.01676190 Serb_SouthSerbia
5.02627098 Romanian_Moldavia_Central
5.13487098 Serb_WestSerbia
5.25337035 Serb_NorthEastBosnia
5.61278897 Serb_Vojvodina
5.69028998 Bosniak_Krajina_West
5.69361924 Serb_Dalmatia
6.20517526 Romanian_Moldavia_North
6.21181938 Vlach_Serbia
6.23982372 Moldovan_North
6.25564545 Croat_Bosnia
6.26453510 Croat_Dalmatia
6.28099514 Croat_Slavonia
6.30042062 Romanian_Crişana
6.39139265 Romanian_Maramureş
6.49609883 Serb_Herzegovina

[retfala]

if we consider what we know from history, his result can also be taken as a proof of italianization in those regions.
anyway, very interesting

[CommonSense]

if we consider what we know from history, his result can also be taken as a proof of italianization in those regions.
anyway, very interesting

It could have happened a thousand years ago, it's hard to say. The italianization process likely started after Venice took over the peninsula and surrounding areas.

[Voskos]

The strongest culture prevails over genetics. For example: the Jews prevailed over the Philistines, the Spaniards prevailed over the Native Americans, the Germanics over the Celts in England etc.

[Hulu]

If we can see more samples it would be helpful. He could be adopted judging from the results.

[CommonSense]

If we can see more samples it would be helpful. He could be adopted judging from the results.

On gedmatch he doesn't share more than 41 cM with anyone, i. e. he doesn't have any close matches, so there is no way to tell if that's true or not.

If somebody is reading this and has any more kits like this one, feel free to contribute.

[Jana]

If we can see more samples it would be helpful. He could be adopted judging from the results.

No reason to be adopted, results align with history.

Vast majority of Italians from these regions are Italianized Croats.

[Jana]

It could have happened a thousand years ago, it's hard to say. The italianization process likely started after Venice took over the peninsula and surrounding areas.

When I worked on my diploma work it included reading old newspapers and archives from Rijeka in late 19/early 20th century.

Rijeka census in mid 19th century was overwhelmingly Croat with 10-15% Italians (iirc) and some Slovenes. Than 30 years later Italians suddenly made 40-50%.

And there was no massive migration wawe from Italy. At all.

It's a complex socio-economic phenomenom. There were few genuine Italians tho, but very small minority.

Rijeka was never under Venice btw. Mass Italianization in the city was a 19th century phenomenom.

[reboun]

It proves that culture overpowers genetics in some ethnic groups.

[NdvBal]

Another Istrian

Kit UD9126126

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 27.04
2 Baltic 23.08
3 West_Med 20.04
4 East_Med 16.33
5 West_Asian 10.53
6 Red_Sea 1.85
7 Oceanian 0.47
8 Amerindian 0.37
9 East_Asian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.22
2 Serbian 5.58
3 Bulgarian 6.13
4 Moldavian 11.9
5 Greek_Thessaly 12.23
6 North_Italian 12.61
7 Hungarian 12.66
8 Austrian 13.97
9 Croatian 14.09
10 Tuscan 14.25
11 East_German 16.06
12 French 16.06
13 West_German 16.57
14 Portuguese 16.96
15 Italian_Abruzzo 17.16
16 Spanish_Galicia 17.43
17 South_Dutch 17.98
18 Spanish_Cataluna 18.05
19 Spanish_Extremadura 18.07
20 West_Sicilian 18.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.5% Romanian + 10.5% French_Basque @ 1.48
2 84.2% Romanian + 15.8% Southwest_French @ 1.54
3 84.2% Romanian + 15.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.7
4 86% Romanian + 14% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.93
5 84.4% Romanian + 15.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.96
6 82.8% Romanian + 17.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.01
7 84.2% Romanian + 15.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.07
8 83.8% Romanian + 16.2% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.07
9 85.3% Bulgarian + 14.7% French_Basque @ 2.1
10 78.4% Bulgarian + 21.6% Southwest_French @ 2.11
11 73.5% Bulgarian + 26.5% French @ 2.13
12 83.7% Romanian + 16.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.14
13 82.6% Romanian + 17.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.15
14 83.3% Romanian + 16.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.21
15 82.5% Romanian + 17.5% Portuguese @ 2.25
16 84.4% Romanian + 15.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.33
17 54.7% Moldavian + 45.3% Tuscan @ 2.41
18 50.3% Croatian + 49.7% Tuscan @ 2.41
19 78.5% Bulgarian + 21.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.46
20 87.8% Serbian + 12.2% Sardinian @ 2.48


UD9126126,27.04,23.08,20.04,10.53,16.33,1.85,0,0.3 ,0,0.37,0.47,0,0

Distance to: result

3.86740223 Bosniak_Sandzak_East
4.17983253 Macedonian_East
4.94445144 Romanian_Oltenia
5.20856986 Romanian_Banat
5.31167582 Romanian_Transylvania
5.50145435 Montenegro_Old_Herzegovina
5.56007194 Bulgarian_Southwestern
5.60539918 Montenegro_Southeast
5.66904754 Serb_Kosovo_Metohija
5.84000000 Romanian_Crişana
5.86167212 Serb_Herzegovina
5.99116850 Romanian_Moldavia_South
6.00626340 Romanian_Muntenia
6.05809376 Bosniak_Sandzak_West
6.09437446 Vlach_Serbia
6.26558856 Albanian_Montenegro
6.27200128 Romanian_Dobruja
6.29932536 Serb_Vojvodina
6.47331445 Serb_Southwest_Serbia
6.53730831 Macedonian_North
6.89077644 Serb_Dalmatia
6.97018651 Macedonian_Central
7.01549713 Bulgarian_Northwestern
7.08394664 Bulgarian_Northeastern
7.12527894 Serb_Southern_Serbia

[Duke]

Its a Croat Italian mix that pushes into eastern balkan, because you have Slavic base and added more anatolian neolithic admix from Italian, resulting into more what is eastern balkan standard

[Italicus]

Very interesting! My great grandma must have plotted like a half Romanian genetically, because she was half Istrian half Trentinese. For some reason autosomally I am very woggy though (I plot with Greek islanders and South Italians), which is strange considering half of my Italian ancestry on paper comes from the North (Istria, Trentino and Emilia Romagna) as well as some Swiss German from Basel.

[majevica]

Funny how he is further away from the North Italian reference than I am

19 North_Italian 19.23

[Nausevar]

The 1st guy is a pure south slav, while the second may be some mix. I'm closer to northern italians than the 1st guy and I've got more west med than both.


Very interesting! My great grandma must have plotted like a half Romanian genetically, because she was half Istrian half Trentinese. For some reason autosomally I am very woggy though (I plot with Greek islanders and South Italians), which is strange considering half of my Italian ancestry on paper comes from the North (Istria, Trentino and Emilia Romagna) as well as some Swiss German from Basel.
You're 1/4 Han though, that pulls you much to the east.

[Italicus]

The 1st guy is a pure south slav, while the second may be some mix. I'm closer to northern italians than the 1st guy and I've got more west med than both.


You're 1/4 Han though, that pulls you much to the east.

Of course, I was only talking about my European admixture though.

[Ibericus]

He can be modeled as a mix of Italian-Friul and Croatian in these proportions (calculated from simulating G25):

0.023 TE9900594 = 74% Croatian + 26% Italian_Northeast