Autosomal results of my sister [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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J. Ketch

05-13-2023, 01:46 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/26Nq6C32/Screenshot-2023-05-13-110959.png

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.84
2 Baltic 24.79
3 West_Med 11.81
4 West_Asian 3.92
5 East_Med 2.93
6 South_Asian 1.61
7 Sub-Saharan 0.56
8 Oceanian 0.32
9 Amerindian 0.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_Scottish 2.65
2 Orcadian 2.93
3 Irish 3.24
4 North_Dutch 4.02
5 Danish 4.28
6 Southeast_English 4.3
7 Southwest_English 4.42
8 Norwegian 5.08
9 North_German 7.1
10 Swedish 7.94
11 South_Dutch 10.15
12 West_German 11.34
13 North_Swedish 14.18
14 French 15.28
15 Austrian 16.31
16 East_German 16.35
17 Hungarian 20.87
18 Spanish_Cataluna 21.94
19 Southwest_Finnish 22.41
20 Southwest_French 22.8

Distance to: CreodaSister
3.94399544 Scottish
4.03627303 Dutch_North
4.20265392 Irish
4.32747039 English_North
4.59997826 Dutch_Central
4.67632334 Welsh
4.80277003 Icelandic
5.10440006 Dutch
5.17921809 English_Southwest
5.52776628 English_Midlands
5.59816041 Danish
5.70946582 Norwegian
5.89751643 Norwegian_Southcentral
5.99138548 English_Southeast
6.04152299 German_Northwest
6.18975767 Swedish_Götaland
7.68941480 Swedish_West-Svealand
8.51722960 French_Brittany
8.56733331 Swedish
8.84051469 Dutch_South

Target: CreodaSister
Distance: 3.1732% / 3.17320200
52.0 Norwegian_Southcentral
41.9 Irish
6.1 Basque_France

Distance to: CreodaSister
3.39453026 53.20% Dutch_North + 46.80% Irish
3.40651323 66.20% Irish + 33.80% Norwegian_Southcentral
3.44452719 35.40% Danish + 64.60% Irish
3.44509638 28.60% Norwegian_Southcentral + 71.40% Scottish
3.44544570 68.20% Irish + 31.80% Swedish_Götaland
3.49660466 73.60% Scottish + 26.40% Swedish_Götaland
3.50838241 29.20% Danish + 70.80% Scottish
3.50979618 74.80% Irish + 25.20% Swedish_West-Svealand
3.54271440 47.20% Dutch_North + 52.80% Scottish
3.56389813 27.40% Norwegian + 72.60% Scottish
3.56808451 80.20% Scottish + 19.80% Swedish_West-Svealand
3.56829119 77.80% Irish + 22.20% Swedish
3.58561023 67.00% Irish + 33.00% Norwegian
3.59266491 5.60% Basque_France + 94.40% Dutch_North
3.61061005 13.20% Basque_France + 86.80% Norwegian_Southcentral
3.67460788 84.40% Scottish + 15.60% Swedish
3.72207617 30.00% Icelandic + 70.00% Scottish
3.72603066 38.20% Norwegian_Southcentral + 61.80% Welsh
3.73210579 12.40% Basque_France + 87.60% Norwegian
3.76004899 65.40% Dutch_North + 34.60% Welsh

Distance to: CreodaSister
3.25081528 Scottish_Orkney
3.82745346 German_Frisian
3.82926886 Scottish_Northeast
3.85022077 Scottish_Southwest
3.85963729 Dutch_Overijssel
3.86357348 Irish_Munster
3.86460865 English_Yorkshire
3.88663093 Welsh_North
3.89625461 English_Lancashire
3.98151981 Irish_Connacht
4.15755938 Scottish_East
4.17715214 Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
4.20385537 Dutch_North-Holland
4.23044915 Irish_Leinster
4.33589668 Scottish_North-Highlands
4.47914054 Dutch_Friesland
4.48010045 Scottish_Shetland
4.54213606 Irish_Ulster
4.74766258 British_Ulster
4.80277003 Icelandic

Target: CreodaSister
Distance: 1.2615% / 1.26151895
55.8 German_Frisian
25.1 Cornish
11.2 German_Schleswig-Holstein
5.5 Irish_Munster
2.4 Basque_France

Distance to: CreodaSister
1.28219869 42.60% Cornish + 57.40% German_Frisian
1.33436907 29.80% French_Brittany + 70.20% German_Frisian
1.44998497 49.40% English_Lancashire + 50.60% German_Frisian
1.46020337 41.00% English_Southwest + 59.00% German_Frisian
1.54706962 41.40% English_West-Midlands + 58.60% German_Frisian
1.55572374 49.80% English_Yorkshire + 50.20% German_Frisian
1.56256035 50.40% German_Frisian + 49.60% Welsh_North
1.64235349 50.00% German_Frisian + 50.00% Scottish_Northeast
1.66204956 52.60% German_Frisian + 47.40% Scottish_East
1.67536145 37.80% English_East-Midlands + 62.20% German_Frisian
1.68170400 44.80% German_Frisian + 55.20% Scottish_Orkney
1.69841653 38.20% English_Southeast + 61.80% German_Frisian
1.70514882 53.80% German_Frisian + 46.20% Scottish_North-Highlands
1.71232918 24.20% French_Normandy + 75.80% German_Frisian
1.74578378 58.00% German_Frisian + 42.00% Welsh_South
1.74965937 86.80% German_Frisian + 13.20% Italian_Aosta_Valley
1.77799051 35.00% English_East + 65.00% German_Frisian
1.78694400 42.20% English_Northeast + 57.80% German_Frisian
1.79268148 81.20% German_Frisian + 18.80% German_Saarland
1.80196677 50.20% German_Frisian + 49.80% Scottish_Southwest

K36

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 1.59 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.23 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 0.27 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.34 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 7.21 Pct
Fennoscandian 6.44 Pct
French 6.26 Pct
Iberian 10.76 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 8.38 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 20.89 Pct
North_Caucasian 0.56 Pct
North_Sea 21.68 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.4 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Distance to: CreodaSister
7.11888334 Scottish
7.46894236 English_Northeast
7.50584439 Scottish_East
7.64249305 German_Lower_Saxony_South
7.67134929 Scottish_Southwest
7.67200756 Cornish
7.67924475 English_Yorkshire
7.68006510 Welsh
7.82093984 Scottish_Highlands
7.84808894 Irish_Leinster
7.88450379 English_East-Midlands
8.02321008 British_Ulster
8.04178463 Irish_Munster
8.09469579 Irish
8.17676586 English_West-Midlands
8.24343375 Scottish_Orkney
8.28908318 English_Lancashire
8.29614368 English
8.41448156 Irish_Connacht
8.64080436 English_Southwest

Target: CreodaSister
Distance: 6.0701% / 6.07013168
52.1 Cornish
35.7 German_Lower_Saxony_South
12.2 German_Lower_Saxony_North

Distance to: CreodaSister
6.13038603 49.80% Cornish + 50.20% German_Lower_Saxony_South
6.32619856 66.60% Cornish + 33.40% German_Lower_Saxony_North
6.49580799 42.00% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 58.00% Scottish
6.50249096 61.20% Cornish + 38.80% German_Westphalia
6.51869674 52.20% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 47.80% Irish_Leinster
6.54505883 54.20% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 45.80% Irish_Munster
6.58594357 50.40% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 49.60% Welsh
6.62019244 60.00% Cornish + 40.00% German_Northwest
6.63115303 55.00% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 45.00% Irish
6.68851884 48.00% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 52.00% Scottish_East
6.70182581 58.00% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 42.00% Irish_Connacht
6.74789563 50.40% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 49.60% Scottish_Southwest
6.78792795 33.40% Dutch_North + 66.60% Cornish
6.84163696 53.20% English_Northeast + 46.80% German_Lower_Saxony_South
6.86303281 68.80% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 31.20% Irish_Ulster
6.89374882 75.40% Cornish + 24.60% German_Frisian
6.91461338 22.20% German_Westphalia + 77.80% Scottish
6.91940029 38.40% German_Westphalia + 61.60% Irish_Leinster
6.92112706 23.40% German_Northwest + 76.60% Scottish
6.93468806 16.40% German_Lower_Saxony_North + 83.60% Scottish
6.94782260 9.20% German_Saxony-Anhalt_South + 90.80% Scottish
6.95906547 58.40% German_Lower_Saxony_South + 41.60% Scottish_Orkney
6.97040104 36.80% Dutch_Central + 63.20% Cornish
6.97475236 80.20% Cornish + 19.80% German_Mecklenburg_West
6.98275931 40.40% German_Westphalia + 59.60% Irish_Munster

Photos
removed

Grace O'Malley

05-13-2023, 03:34 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/26Nq6C32/Screenshot-2023-05-13-110959.png

Quite an accurate result for her from FTDNA. She's a pretty girl. Has she only tested with FTDNA?

J. Ketch

05-13-2023, 03:51 AM

Quite an accurate result for her from FTDNA. She's a pretty girl. Has she only tested with FTDNA?
Thank you, yes, only FTDNA. Not a girl anymore, middle aged.

Jana

05-13-2023, 05:23 AM

Nice results, congrats. She's very cute. Is she less insular Celtic shifted compared to you?

J. Ketch

05-13-2023, 06:34 AM

Nice results, congrats. She's very cute. Is she less insular Celtic shifted compared to you?
Thanks kindly. Yes, slightly less Insular Celtic shifted than me I think, but somewhat disappointingly almost identical!

rothaer

05-13-2023, 09:16 AM

Thanks kindly. Yes, slightly less Insular Celtic shifted than me I think, but somewhat disappointingly almost identical!

Generally spoken the spread among the siblings is directly connected to heterogenuity of the parents in themselves. Both parents having a different background from each other is irrelevant in this context. The high resemblance of the results of you and your sister can be by chance or because both of your parents may be pretty homogenous in themselves.

Petalpusher

05-13-2023, 09:33 AM

Generally spoken the spread among the siblings is directly connected to heterogenuity of the parents in themselves. Both parents having a different background from each other is irrelevant in this context. The high resemblance of the results of you and your sister can be by chance or because both of your parents may be pretty homogenous in themselves.

I ve never seen siblings varying that much in actual autosomal (not the cranky breakdown of companies). When i put my sisters on a pca, we were pretty much the same point, even zoomed x1000 like you have to for Europe. The little anecdotical differences are essentially genotype skips and errors. Hopefully it's like that or we wouldn't ever be able to infer geneflows in ancient populations.

rothaer

05-13-2023, 10:01 AM

I ve never seen siblings varying that much in actual autosomal (not the cranky breakdown of companies). When i put my sisters on a pca, we were pretty much the same point, even zoomed x1000 like you have to for Europe. The little anecdotical differences are essentially genotype skips and errors. Hopefully it's like that or we wouldn't ever be able to infer geneflows in ancient populations.

In contrast to my siblings I inherited from my paternal grandparents proportions as skewed as 35%:15% (instead of the statistic expectation 25%:25%). Now, just imagine that one of these grandparents would have been Subsaharan African. I would then have had 15% or 35% SSA compared to 25% SSA as expected in my siblings. That are not "little anecdotical differences [that] are essentially genotype skips and errors" but absolutely real and sometimes notable differences.

Petalpusher

05-13-2023, 10:05 AM

Actually not. In contrast to my sibling I inherited from my paternal grandparents proportions as skewed as 35%:15% (instead of the statistic expectation 25%:25%). Now, just imagine that one of these grandparents would have been Subsaharan African. I would then have had 15% or 35% SSA compared to 25% SSA as expected in my siblings. That are not "little anecdotical differences [that] are essentially genotype skips and errors" but absolutely real and sometimes notable differences.

What are those 15 and 35% we are talking about and in what kind of calculators? That wouldn't happen with such distant components as SSA, but can in company breakdowns and in between closely related European components. Besides have you tried to put your siblings on a pca, provided it's the same company raw datas?

Lemminkäinen

05-13-2023, 10:30 AM

Quite an accurate result for her from FTDNA. She's a pretty girl. Has she only tested with FTDNA?

In my case there is a lot room for improvement. My result is 95% Finnish, which is propably correct. It depends on the concept of Finnishness, but the I have tens of 2-4th cousins who sre 95-100% Swedish. A bit challenging equation. Same happened in 23andme. I terminated the 23andme account, because of some racist comment from their site.

Grace O'Malley

05-13-2023, 10:56 AM

In my case there is a lot room for improvement. My result is 95% Finnish, which is propably correct. It depends on the concept of Finnishness, but the I have tens of 2-4th cousins who sre 95-100% Swedish. A bit challenging equation. Same happened in 23andme. I terminated the 23andme account, because of some racist comment from their site.

I have myself and a brother tested on FTDNA. I'm 95% Ireland and he is 84% Ireland. Slight differences in results but nothing too major.

My result

https://i.imgur.com/8otVK4D.png

Brother

https://i.imgur.com/32vFl5e.png

That's a pity you had to terminate your 23&Me account. Do you mind posting what they said that was racist? If not that is fine as well.

Lemminkäinen

05-13-2023, 11:55 AM

I have myself and a brother tested on FTDNA. I'm 95% Ireland and he is 84% Ireland. Slight differences in results but nothing too major.

My result

https://i.imgur.com/8otVK4D.png

Brother

https://i.imgur.com/32vFl5e.png

That's a pity you had to terminate your 23&Me account. Do you mind posting what they said that was racist? If not that is fine as well.

Interesting. Have you compared your and your brother's G25 results? Are they more in line?

Luke35

05-13-2023, 01:24 PM

What are those 15 and 35% we are talking about and in what kind of calculators? That wouldn't happen with such distant components as SSA, but can in company breakdowns and in between closely related European components. Besides have you tried to put your siblings on a pca, provided it's the same company raw datas?

I interpret what he is talking about (15%, 35%) as total shared cM with grandparents.

Grace O'Malley

05-13-2023, 02:26 PM

Interesting. Have you compared your and your brother's G25 results? Are they more in line?

I only got G25 for myself and mother.

Lemminkäinen

05-13-2023, 03:06 PM

rothaer

05-13-2023, 09:53 PM

What are those 15 and 35% we are talking about and in what kind of calculators?

I'm talking about how much DNA I inherited from my paternal grandparents. This can be determined by simply testing them and check how big is the match with them in cM. After they are deceased I determined that via chromosome painting and comparing where I do match with relatives that I'm related to via a particular grandparent. It's somewhat laborious and I've in total painted more than 500 segments covering abt. 80% of my entire genome. I then extrapolated these 80% to 100%. And it turned out that the 50% of autosomal DNA that I inherited from my father don't hail half from each grandparent (i. e. 25% : 25% absolute) but roughly 15% : 35% absolute.

That wouldn't happen with such distant components as SSA, but can in company breakdowns and in between closely related European components.

This is independent of what kind of DNA the grandparents have. If one of these grandparents would have been a negro I would get that proportion, i. e. 35% or 15% SSA DNA.

Besides have you tried to put your siblings on a pca, provided it's the same company raw datas?

Yes, of course. Here are three groups with full siblings. All have old FTDNA (so OmniExpress chip) raw data but 1 individual that has AncestryDNA (so also OmniExpress chip) raw data.

https://i.imgur.com/xUrG8rC.jpg

rothaer

05-13-2023, 10:05 PM

I studied more FtDna's my origin. I can't go through all my cousins, but I checked some, maybe 30 cousins in the 3-5th cousins' grouping and even it included several West European, mostly English/Scottish cousins, with zero Finnish ancestry. I have no West European ancestry at the FtDna. I do have Italian ancestry, but I didn't find Italian cousins, not even distant Italian cousins. I suggest that if I could download all comparisons I would find a lot similar West European cousins with 0 Finnish ancestry.

I've abt. 30 FTDNA accounts. That FTDNA function (myOrigins) is pretty poor and not comparable with 23andMe and AncestryDNA. It's not worth dealing with if you have (or had and saved the result of) any of the other two mentioned.

rothaer

05-13-2023, 10:07 PM

Lemminkäinen

05-13-2023, 10:14 PM

You refer to a (permanent?) site content of theirs or to something that a customer service employee stated? Just curious.

Their own content. They also can act in a dishonest way.

rothaer

05-13-2023, 10:23 PM

Their own content. They also can act in a dishonest way.

As a stroke-like and permanently ignored main wrong I just found this at 23andMe.

https://i.imgur.com/RTbKYRk.jpg

But feel free to share your opinion. I've no intention to argue about anything in this context. Just curious for what may have upset you that notably.

Lemminkäinen

05-13-2023, 10:28 PM

As a stroke-like and permanently ignored main wrong I just found this at 23andMe.

https://i.imgur.com/RTbKYRk.jpg

But feel free to share your opion. I've no intention to argue about anything in this context. Just curious what may have upset you that notably.

I can send you PM, tomorrow. Nothing like your thoughts.

rothaer

05-13-2023, 10:47 PM

I've abt. 30 FTDNA accounts. That FTDNA function (myOrigins) is pretty poor and not comparable with 23andMe and AncestryDNA. It's not worth dealing with if you have (or had and saved the result of) any of the other two mentioned.

I can share my own result. What they do connect with Germans I got not 100% but 3% of. :thumbs

https://i.imgur.com/Xcdlu9U.jpg

Lemminkäinen

05-13-2023, 11:13 PM

I can share my own result. What they do connect with Germans I got not 100% but 3% of. :thumbs

https://i.imgur.com/Xcdlu9U.jpg

Your German results depends on used references. It is not dishonesty, but poor sampling. You see that your result encircles Germany, meaning that the reference maybe south German or something like that.

Garza Blanca

05-14-2023, 01:02 AM

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.84
2 Baltic 24.79
3 West_Med 11.81
4 West_Asian 3.92
5 East_Med 2.93
6 South_Asian 1.61
7 Sub-Saharan 0.56
8 Oceanian 0.32
9 Amerindian 0.23

What is this "South Asian" that appears in some british samples?

rothaer

05-14-2023, 10:16 AM

What is this "South Asian" that appears in some british samples?

I'm not sure as for this particular calculator but South Asian HG was a contributor to Yamnaya, making Central Europeans getting 1-2% South Asian HG in the Eurogenes Hunter Gatherer vs. Farmer calculator f. i.
Ancient Yamnaya DNA scores notably higer proportions of that in the same calculator so there is no reason for any Gypsy theories because of that.

Here's the ancient Yamnaya individual I0231:

https://i.imgur.com/lesbEx7.jpg

Jana

05-14-2023, 10:20 AM

Thanks kindly. Yes, slightly less Insular Celtic shifted than me I think, but somewhat disappointingly almost identical!

Since your mother is very Germanic iirc, does that means both of you took more after your paternal side? If that's so, that's very interesting.

J. Ketch

05-14-2023, 12:14 PM

Since your mother is very Germanic iirc, does that means both of you took more after your paternal side? If that's so, that's very interesting.
According to K13 (and K15) yes, both of us and my dad have the high North Atlantic characteristeric of Insular Celts (53-54%), while my mum has the 48-49% typical of the English. On K36 I am closer to my mum and my sister closer to dad though.

But on all Eurogenes calculators my father is very Germanic/Scandinavian shifted, more so than me and my sister, so :shrug: At the end of the day it's the commercial estimates that are accurate for all of us. Most of the companies can split English and Irish blood cleanly, which may be surprising to some.

Petalpusher

05-14-2023, 05:06 PM

I'm talking about how much DNA I inherited from my paternal grandparents. This can be determined by simply testing them and check how big is the match with them in cM. After they are deceased I determined that via chromosome painting and comparing where I do match with relatives that I'm related to via a particular grandparent. It's somewhat laborious and I've in total painted more than 500 segments covering abt. 80% of my entire genome. I then extrapolated these 80% to 100%. And it turned out that the 50% of autosomal DNA that I inherited from my father don't hail half from each grandparent (i. e. 25% : 25% absolute) but roughly 15% : 35% absolute.

This is independent of what kind of DNA the grandparents have. If one of these grandparents would have been a negro I would get that proportion, i. e. 35% or 15% SSA DNA.

Yes, of course. Here are three groups with full siblings. All have old FTDNA (so OmniExpress chip) raw data but 1 individual that has AncestryDNA (so also OmniExpress chip) raw data.

https://i.imgur.com/xUrG8rC.jpg

You are not gonna inherit randomly 20% more or less SSA compared to a sibling, that would put one sibling in Europe and the other one in North Africa. Even within the variation of a single chromosome that's very unlikely to happen. The components that appear variable are that way because they are close to another to begin with and have massive overlaps. Again we could throw away all the genetic science if such things could happen. There is a tiny difference in overall inheritance but it negates itself statistically on the whole genome. Since we don't test on the whole genome to bring the cost down of mainstream testing, those little differences in shift are most of the time just genotyping errors (can be improved with phasing). Keeping in mind Europe is the most difficult part of the world to determine precise ethnicity as the countries are so packed together at the scale of the world but even our cheap tests are good enough for that. Then there's always IBD on top of it to confirm it or really decipher groups that are so close together individually that it's often hard to tell just with autosomal (like UK). Your siblings are exactly the same point at a larger scale.

Flashball

05-14-2023, 07:11 PM

You are not gonna inherit randomly 20% more or less SSA compared to a sibling, that would put one sibling in Europe and the other one in North Africa. Even within the variation of a single chromosome that's very unlikely to happen. The components that appear variable are that way because they are close to another to begin with and have massive overlaps. Again we could throw away all the genetic science if such things could happen. There is a tiny difference in overall inheritance but it negates itself statistically on the whole genome. Since we don't test on the whole genome to bring the cost down of mainstream testing, those little differences in shift are most of the time just genotyping errors (can be improved with phasing). Keeping in mind Europe is the most difficult part of the world to determine precise ethnicity as the countries are so packed together at the scale of the world but even our cheap tests are good enough for that. Then there's always IBD on top of it to confirm it or really decipher groups that are so close together individually that it's often hard to tell just with autosomal (like UK). Your siblings are exactly the same point at a larger scale.

Genetic drift can sometimes create a relative genetic "distance", like that between Irish and Irish gypsies, but I doubt that is pronounced as distance.

Personally, I don't really see the contradiction between the relative distances between individuals and the fact that they are brothers and sisters, because they are not clones.

Moreover, as you said: the quality of the raw data can also play

I have my Nebula data (30x complete genome) and I don't really see the difference however on the PCA, but maybe it's the tool that is limited.