Were Spaniards less brutal than North American colonizers? About the same?

[Methuselah]

Why more Indians exist in Spanish colonies?

[InmostLight]

Indigenous accounts describe them as equally brutal. The difference is that NA colonists opted for outright genocide, as well as forced steriliation and forced abortion into the 20th century, but SA colonizers used sexual slavery and rape to admix the native population with themselves.

SA natives were also more technologically advanced than NA natives, and they had civilizations instead of nomadic lifestyles. NA natives had the potlach ritual of destroying their belongings at the end of the calendar cycle, but SA natives had agriculture, permanent buildings, food preservation, etc-- things that help you stay alive

[RobocopReturns]

In the start they were same, but by 18th and 19th century, Spaniards were less brutal in my opinion, but one thing I have to mention; how many natives died from european diseases which Spaniard brought with them, the answer is: A LOTTTTT, I would say that was the worst thing for natives, more deadly than any bullet or cannon.

[Cristiano viejo]

Indigenous accounts describe them as equally brutal. The difference is that NA colonists opted for outright genocide, as well as forced steriliation and forced abortion into the 20th century, but SA colonizers used sexual slavery and rape to admix the native population with themselves.

Rape tale is an absurdity since it was not necessary. In the Amerindian cultures woman was merchandise object and when the Spaniards arrived the Amerindians offered their women as gift. This is very well documentated and the real mccoy was the Amerindian concubine of Hernán Cortés, the conquistador of Mexico.

[InmostLight]

Rape tale is an absurdity since it was not necessary. In the Amerindian cultures woman was merchandise object and when the Spaniards arrived the Amerindians offered their women as gift. This is very well documentated and the real mccoy was the Amerindian concubine of Hernán Cortés, the conquistador of Mexico.

What you described is true, but for a woman (or any person) to be given as a gift is not consensual, and it is still a form of slavery. The natives were just as awful to sell their women as the Spaniards were to accept them as property. The Spaniards could have said, "ew how barbaric to sell your women and girls for money!" but they didn't. Having sex with a women who was given to you as property is a form of rape, in my opinion, because she is robbed of the agency to say no. This is a moral thing that we can disagree on.

You're right that the colonizers weren't going out en masse and raping women in the jungle, though. It happened systematically through a process of slavery.

[Cristiano viejo]

What you described is true, but for a woman (or any person) to be given as a gift is not consensual, and it is still a form of slavery. The natives were just as awful to sell their women as the Spaniards were to accept them as property. The Spaniards could have said, "ew how barbaric to sell your women and girls for money!" but they didn't. Having sex with a women who was given to you as property is a form of rape, in my opinion. This is a moral thing that we can disagree on.

You're right that the colonizers weren't going out en masse and raping women in the jungle, though. It happened systematically through a process of slavery.
But Spaniards did not pay a single maravedí for these women. They were gifts, not sales. The most important thing is that these women were glad changing their old Amerindian owners for their new Spaniard ones, although simply because the latter were the new rulers.

As I mentioned, the concubine of Hernán Cortés was a gift for him, but she already has been gifted previously, from an Amerindian tribe to other.

Also I dont think Amerindian women were aware of their status as women. Feminism did not exist 500 years ago :rolleyes:

[Petalpusher]

How much of those are fully natives though in south America, that is without identifying as native in the same way mulatoos and even quadroons identify as blacks, but really unadmixed natives, let's say +95%. From the studies i ve seen of SA it doesn't look like a big portion of the populations.

[Sebastianus Rex]

In the start they were same, but by 18th and 19th century, Spaniards were less brutal in my opinion, but one thing I have to mention; how many natives died from european diseases which Spaniard brought with them, the answer is: A LOTTTTT, I would say that was the worst thing for natives, more deadly than any bullet or cannon.

Yes, but that was completely involuntary. Likewise the black plague was brought to Europe from Asia and wiped out according to some estimates around 2/3 of the european population, yet we don't see europeans bitching about it or claiming for historical reparations.

PS. Welcome back friend. :thumb001:

[HannibaltheGreat]

Yes, but that was completely involuntary. Likewise the black plague was brought to Europe from Asia and wiped out according to some estimates around 2/3 of the european population, yet we don't see europeans bitching about it or claiming for historical reparations.

PS. Welcome back friend. :thumb001:

North American anglos did it on purpose a few times.
Theres a story of North americans purposely infecting furs or blankets with plague and then giving it to them to kill them off and remove them.

https://www.history.com/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets

[HannibaltheGreat]

What you described is true, but for a woman (or any person) to be given as a gift is not consensual, and it is still a form of slavery. The natives were just as awful to sell their women as the Spaniards were to accept them as property. The Spaniards could have said, "ew how barbaric to sell your women and girls for money!" but they didn't. Having sex with a women who was given to you as property is a form of rape, in my opinion, because she is robbed of the agency to say no. This is a moral thing that we can disagree on.

You're right that the colonizers weren't going out en masse and raping women in the jungle, though. It happened systematically through a process of slavery.

Slavery was abolished in 1542 for natives.
They tried to continue an ecomienda system. But it had to do with labor. Not owning someone and trading people.

In peru, they had used the peruvian system they had before. Peruvians, instead of paying taxes, would work a few months throughout the year. Peruvians had their own homes to go back to and their own farms to finish after their term of labor for the year. The peruvians rather did labor for a few months than give up property and food.

[InmostLight]

Slavery was abolished in 1542 for natives.
They tried to continue an ecomienda system. But it had to do with labor. Not owning someone and trading people.

In peru, they had used the peruvian system they had before. Peruvians, instead of paying taxes, would work a few months throughout the year. Peruvians had their own homes to go back to and their own farms to finish after their term of labor for the year. The peruvians rather did labor for a few months than give up property and food.

Thanks for this information!

[Rumata]

NA had many settled tribes too. Both in the East and in the West. Many of them became forced nomads though when migrating to rezervations.

The tribes around Great lakes looked the most like Europeans of all Amerinds.

[Rumata]

The most important thing is that these women were glad changing their old Amerindian owners for their new Spaniard ones, although simply because the latter were the new rulers.

Next say those women were happy to have fuckers (sometimes husbands) they couldn't even speak to properly and whose culture was very different from their own :coffee:

[Rumata]

North American anglos did it on purpose a few times.
Theres a story of North americans purposely infecting furs or blankets with plague and then giving it to them to kill them off and remove them.

https://www.history.com/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets

It was a coronavirus of the time.

[Cristiano viejo]

Next say those women were happy to have fuckers (sometimes husbands) they couldn't even speak to properly and whose culture was very different from their own :coffee:
Those women were not different than any other woman in the history of mankind: they just searched the power.

Use your Russian part of brain instead the Eastern Ukranian, with who would you want to go, with the new ruler or with the old defeated?

[Smeagol]

The difference is that NA colonists opted for outright genocide

Never happened. Indians died mostly of disease and some in wars that they started.

[Rumata]

Those women were not different than any other woman in the history of mankind: they just searched the power.

Use your Russian part of brain instead the Eastern Ukranian, with who would you want to go, with the new ruler or with the old defeated?

Then go fuck a Jew because they clearly own you at the moment.

[Cristiano viejo]

Then go fuck a Jew because they clearly own you at the moment.

Juas.

[ugochaves]

history - the Spaniards are not sweet, but the Germans preferred genocide in North America - everything is clear - there are many Indians in the Spanish colonies, as in Russia there are many options, but do American English-speaking Germans have Indians, are they free?

[Rumata]

Never happened. Indians died mostly of disease and some in wars that they started.

Sure. They often "started wars" when your robbed them of the last land they had.

[Rumata]

Bla-bla

Speak Hebrew please

[Cristiano viejo]

Speak Hebrew please
You thought I was a woman, did not you? :lightbul:

[ugochaves]

Fucked up...Spaniards are less bloodthirsty than Germans, period

[Rumata]

You thought I was a woman, did not you? :lightbul:

I returned you a favor:

"who would you want to go, with the new ruler or with the old defeated? "

[Cristiano viejo]

I returned you a favor:

"who would you want to go, with the new ruler or with the old defeated? "

Yes. And again, am I a woman perhaps?

[Smeagol]

Sure. They often "started wars" when your robbed them of the last land they had.

They didn't have any land because they weren't smart enough to come up with the concept of property. But we payed them for it regardless, they just continually broke their agreements and caused trouble.

[Rumata]

Yes. And again, am I a woman perhaps?

Again. I'm not a woman either, and from my point of view one should go with ones people rather than the conquirerors. Actually, many cultures even strictly disallow such actions.

[Incal]

Now we have way more indians than before. I guess that says it all.

[Cristiano viejo]

Again. I'm not a woman either, and from my point of view one should go with ones people rather than the conquirerors. Actually, many cultures even strictly disallow such actions.
Am I Amerindian then?

[Rumata]

Am I Amerindian then?

I'm not one either. And I can judge only by my knowledge of peoples I know.

[Rumata]

They didn't have any land because they weren't smart enough to come up with the concept of property. But we payed them for it regardless, they just continually broke their agreements and caused trouble.

The Amerindian concept of the land didn't allow it's ownership either by them or by you. You came there with an own concept of ownership. Sometimes they made treaties with you, afaik some of them were even about territorial separation. About all the treaties were broken. You blame them for that and they blame you for that.
Trail of Broken Treaties (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Broken_Treaties)

Now we know how such things usually work. Like Poland could attack Hitler's Germany of Vietnam could attack USA.

It's like if I said that it were Finland that started the war with USSR. Who would start a war that is likely to be suicidal? Let's be real.

[Rumata]

Now we have way more indians than before. I guess that says it all.

1. Highly depends on the country. I think not in USA or Argentina / Uruguay.

2. In 500 years Natives could increase their numbers without help of Europeans. I'm not sure if this part is more funny or sad.

[Peterski]

How much of those are fully natives though in south America, that is without identifying as native in the same way mulatoos and even quadroons identify as blacks, but really unadmixed natives, let's say +95%. From the studies i ve seen of SA it doesn't look like a big portion of the populations.

In SA Bolivia, Peru, Chile and Ecuador have many unadmixed natives. Other countries have less.

In Mesoamerica Guatemala, southern Mexico, Panama and maybe Costa Rica have many natives.

[Rumata]

Panama has 12% of Amerinds. Costa Rica - 2%.

Honduras and El Salvador have much more.

[Peterski]

Why more Indians exist in Spanish colonies?

There were more of them there to begin with - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_the_Indigenous_peoples_of_th e_Americas#Estimations


Honduras and El Salvador have much more.

Much more than Costa Rica or much more than Panama?

[Laredo]

I honestly don't think you can call "Indian" someone who's typical Spanish+middle eastern or north African +amerindian and SSA .

[Peterski]

SA natives were also more technologically advanced than NA natives, and they had civilizations instead of nomadic lifestyles. NA natives had the potlach ritual of destroying their belongings at the end of the calendar cycle, but SA natives had agriculture, permanent buildings, food preservation, etc-- things that help you stay alive

It depends, not all NA tribes were nomadic, many were sedentary and had agriculture, especially on the East Coast. And Pueblo tribes had towns made of brick:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_the_Indigenous_peoples_of_th e_Americas#Estimations_by_tribe

[Rumata]

Much more than Costa Rica or much more than Panama?


Much more than in both.
In Latin America the most Amerind parts are generally the more forested and the most inland parts. And in USA it's reservations.

[Laredo]

Much more than in both.
In Latin America the most Amerind parts are generally the more forested and the most inland parts. And in USA it's reservations.

In Mexico the most amerindian regions and where there's only 25% European admixture Is the most humid/wet tropical environment (the south) and the regions where arid and hot arid regions amerindians barely exist today .

[Rumata]

In Mexico the most amerindian regions and where there's only 25% European admixture Is the most humid/wet tropical environment (the south) and the regions where arid and hot arid regions amerindians barely exist today .
Yes, the most hidden and the least human-friendly and the least controlled parts stay the least touched.

[Incal]

There you go:

https://iili.io/HrsTUjs.gif

[Peterski]

Much more than in both.

What are the exact percentages?

[Damião de Góis]

All colonizers were brutal. Or do you think some colonizations happened with flowers and sing alongs?

[Laredo]

There you go:

https://iili.io/HrsTUjs.gif

I think what matters Is the percentage, going by your source that would seem like Mexico Iess European than Bolivia/Peru/Guatemala.

[Rumata]

What are the exact percentages?

Idk, but I read that those countries are almost fully metis and native.

[Laredo]

All colonizers were brutal. Or do you think some colonizations happened with flowers and sing alongs?

No best thing that happened to Mexico was the arrival of Castilians.

[Rumata]

In USA probably even I could write myself in as an Amerind, heh.

[Incal]

I think what matters Is the percentage, going by your source that would seem like Mexico Iess European than Bolivia/Peru/Guatemala.

Relax, this is not a competition. The point is that raw numbers show that indios are alive and kicking, even more tha before.

[Rumata]

OMG

[RobocopReturns]

Yes, but that was completely involuntary. Likewise the black plague was brought to Europe from Asia and wiped out according to some estimates around 2/3 of the european population, yet we don't see europeans bitching about it or claiming for historical reparations.

PS. Welcome back friend. :thumb001:

Ofcourse, that was completely involuntary :)

P.S. Thank you :)

[RobocopReturns]

I wonder (just curious) how Latin Americans view Spain today? I mean do they see it as possible country for better life, to run away there for better job etc... Do they hold any grudge against Spain goin to the past? Or do they like Spain?

[Gredos]

Why more Indians exist in Spanish colonies?

All of western America were Spanish colonies.

https://i.imgur.com/1cR7PhW.jpg

If the question is why there are fewer indigenous people in the north, it is because of the climate. Agriculture could never be developed until the industrial revolution.

[Incal]

I wonder (just curious) how Latin Americans view Spain today? I mean do they see it as possible country for better life, to run away there for better job etc... Do they hold any grudge against Spain goin to the past? Or do they like Spain?

AFAIK, after the US it's the second most popular destination for our beggars. The average people here don't even know history very well. The only "latinos" you'll see whining about Spain are actually brown US Americans with identity issues.

[Laredo]

AFAIK, after the US it's the second most popular destination for our beggars. The average people here don't even know hisotry very well. The only "latinos" you'll see whining about Spain are actually brown US Americans with identity issues.

lol, coming from someone who's also brown. kettle calling the pot black:rolleyes:

[Incal]

lol, coming from someone who's also brown. kettle calling the pot black:rolleyes:

But I don't live in the US. I live in South America. Huge difference.

[Sebastianus Rex]

North American anglos did it on purpose a few times.
Theres a story of North americans purposely infecting furs or blankets with plague and then giving it to them to kill them off and remove them.

https://www.history.com/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets

Since that was a few centuries after the first "civilization shock" between europeans and native americans, yes, it is highly plausible they did it on purpose and it can qualify as a genocide...also the estimated bison population was decimated to the point of almost extinction in the 19th century, from an initial population of 60 million (according to many estimates).

[Rumata]

Since that was a few centuries after the first "civilization shock" between europeans and native americans, yes, it is highly plausible they did it on purpose and it can qualify as a genocide...also the estimated bison population was decimated to the point of almost extinction in the 19th century, from an initial population of 60 million (according to many estimates).
Yes, they eradicated almost all bisons to starve bison hunters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_hunting

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Bison_skull_pile_edit.jpg/1280px-Bison_skull_pile_edit.jpg

[Karol Klačansky]

Indigenous accounts describe them as equally brutal. The difference is that NA colonists opted for outright genocide, as well as forced steriliation and forced abortion into the 20th century, but SA colonizers used sexual slavery and rape to admix the native population with themselves.

SA natives were also more technologically advanced than NA natives, and they had civilizations instead of nomadic lifestyles. NA natives had the potlach ritual of destroying their belongings at the end of the calendar cycle, but SA natives had agriculture, permanent buildings, food preservation, etc-- things that help you stay alive

Lol thats a massive distortion of history for both NA and SA Colonizers. The spanish very early on took legitimate wives from native women, married them in the church and had children with them. To call the mixing in latin america a result of rape is 100% nonsense.

[Cristiano viejo]

I wonder (just curious) how Latin Americans view Spain today? I mean do they see it as possible country for better life, to run away there for better job etc... Do they hold any grudge against Spain goin to the past? Or do they like Spain?
Hilarious question, dear Croatian friend (welcome again), OF COURSE THAT UNFORTUNATELY THE PANCHITOS SEE SPAIN AS A COUNTRY FOR ALL THAT THAT COMMENTED ABOVE.


Since that was a few centuries after the first "civilization shock" between europeans and native americans, yes, it is highly plausible they did it on purpose and it can qualify as a genocide...also the estimated bison population was decimated to the point of almost extinction in the 19th century, from an initial population of 60 million (according to many estimates).

Starving the Amerindians was the goal of Anglos for killing the bisons.

Anglos almost extermined the bisons, only less than 1000 survived. Just AMAZING.

[HannibaltheGreat]

I wonder (just curious) how Latin Americans view Spain today? I mean do they see it as possible country for better life, to run away there for better job etc... Do they hold any grudge against Spain goin to the past? Or do they like Spain?

I just see it as another country mostly.
But in geneology, I'm reaching a point where I may need access to some spanish records. Not just latin America.

I dont hold a grudge against them. Our ancestors conquered the world. Not theres. And its our ancestors that enslaved our other ancestors. It wasn't modern spaniards.

The modern narrative that we were conquered by spain is false. And it's propagated by wokism and angloism. We conquered and then mixed as our paternal ancestors were sent from spain hundreds of years ago. Modern spaniards stayed in spain. And then ours defeated the spaniards in the war of independance centuries later (expetion puerto rico, puerto rico was betrayed by spain). Spaniards majorily don't come from criollos. There's a very small exception of spaniards that do. But mostly, they don't.

About them moving to spain? I don't know, some latin americans move there, but I think more rather than move to the US since they move to the US more. I don't have an interest in living in spain. But I'd like to visit some areas.

[Cristiano viejo]

I just see it as another country mostly.
But in geneology, I'm reaching a point where I may need access to some spanish records. Not just latin America.

I dont hold a grudge against them. Our ancestors conquered the world. Not theres. And its our ancestors that enslaved our other ancestors. It wasn't modern spaniards.

The modern narrative that we were conquered by spain is false. And it's propagated by wokism and angloism. We conquered and then mixed as our paternal ancestors were sent from spain hundreds of years ago. Modern spaniards stayed in spain. And then ours defeated the spaniards in the war of independance centuries later (expetion puerto rico, puerto rico was betrayed by spain). Spaniards majorily don't come from criollos. There's a very small exception of spaniards that do. But mostly, they don't.


Fairy tale at its maximum speed :lol:

[HannibaltheGreat]

Fairy tale at its maximum speed [emoji38]Not a fairy tale. Why are you and your family born in spain? Why dont you share DNA with any full hispanic Americans?
Even if we technically have iberian ancestry?
Because our ancestors conquered the world and yours were armchair conquistadors

[Cristiano viejo]

Not a fairy tale. Why are you and your family born in spain? Why dont you share DNA with any full hispanic Americans?
Even if we technically have iberian ancestry?
Because our ancestors conquered the world and yours were armchair conquistadors

Your ancestors were a bunch of female niggers and weak Amerindians that were fucked by poor Spanish settlers, not even conquistadors, who were just a few bunch.

Your narrative dies since lots of Spanish conquistadors, colonists, settlers and even beggars that became rich in America come back to Spain, starting for the most famous of them, Hernán Cortés :thumb001:

But maybe you know about Spanish history better than myself ;)

[HannibaltheGreat]

Your ancestors were a bunch of female niggers and weak Amerindians that were fucked by poor Spanish settlers, not even conquistadors, who were just a few bunch.

Your narrative dies since lots of Spanish conquistadors, colonists, settlers and even beggars that became rich in America come back to Spain, starting for the most famous of them, Hernán Cortés :thumb001:

But maybe you know about Spanish history better than myself ;)

My ancestors married into them.
And enslaved others.
You are related to 0 full blooded hispanic americans.

You are undocumented.
My ancestor is recorded in the records of Ultramar going to dabajon and buying 77 cattle...
The cousins of my ancestors are mentioned in real cedulas and another cousin family has papers dealing with inheritance. And this inregads to my direct paternal ancestors apellido.

Your ancestors were goat herders. Nothing wrong with that. Its a humble occupation. But dont kid yourself. Your ancestors never done anything in the world.

0 dna relation to us (full hispanic americans).
No shared centimorgans.
Your ancestors never came here. Those you are talking about a minority. And no they didnt become rich. Those who went back to spain were poor and few and went back to spain because they weren't successful and failed too many times.

[Cristiano viejo]

My ancestors married into them.

For things so (this ultra-stupid comment) is why I consider you triracials truly dumb ;)

[HannibaltheGreat]

For things so (this ultra-stupid comment) is why I consider you triracials truly dumb ;)

This is how I know you don't know anything and never looked into colonial records. Even you dont know any of your great great grandparents by name or where from. Lol. What a joke.

[Rumata]

Here, members write in their profiles whatever fancy comes to their minds. For Ethnicity there may be German but posts may be written as if it's actually Amerind.

[HannibaltheGreat]

Here, members write in their profiles whatever fancy comes to their minds. For Ethnicity there may be German but posts may be written as if it's actually Amerind.He knows who am I. And some members here also. I am not German? Juas!
You don't say? Lol.

[Rumata]

He knows who am I. And some members here also. I am not German?
Your profile is open for everyone. I don't know who the fuck you are. And who are you?


Juas!
Speak an understandable language. Kurva mac.


You don't say? Lol.
What?

[HannibaltheGreat]

1
Your profile is open for everyone.

2. I don't know who the fuck you are. And who are you?



3
Speak an understandable language. Kurva mac.


4 What?

1For realz?

2 you said Some profiles could put down they are germans and be amerinds or whatever by how they post?
So why say such a thing and not know anything about my posting history lol.

Its obvious I'm not german because I never post anything german or about germans lmao.

3. Juas is CV phrase he ocassionaly says lol. It's obviously an expression [emoji1787]

4. Huh. Whut [emoji38]

[Rumata]

1For realz?

2 you said Some profiles could put down they are germans and be amerinds or whatever by how they post?
So why say such a thing and not know anything about my posting history lol.

Its obvious I'm not german because I never post anything german or about germans lmao.

3. Juas is CV phrase he ocassionaly says lol. It's obviously an expression [emoji1787]

4. Huh. Whut [emoji38]

1. Yes.

2. Instead of simply replying to me and stating your ethnicity you start this fussing about me and your posting history. I don't have to know your posting history, right? Well, if you're so much insecure about your root, you can not reply to me but save me from such pathetic attempts to look smarter than you are.

3. I know CV says that. Again, speak in an understandable language, not a CV language.

[HannibaltheGreat]

1. Yes.

2. Instead of simply replying to me and stating your ethnicity you start this fussing about me and your posting history. I don't have to know your posting history, right? Well, if you're so much insecure about your root, you can not reply to me but save me from such pathetic attempts to look smarter than you are.

3. I know CV says that. Again, speak in an understandable language, not a CV language.

Lol poor rumata

[Rumata]

Lol poor rumata

I see you're apparently another insecure monkey unable to combine a few words properly. I don't have any more questions to you, "great hannibal".

[RobocopReturns]

I just see it as another country mostly.
But in geneology, I'm reaching a point where I may need access to some spanish records. Not just latin America.

I dont hold a grudge against them. Our ancestors conquered the world. Not theres. And its our ancestors that enslaved our other ancestors. It wasn't modern spaniards.

The modern narrative that we were conquered by spain is false. And it's propagated by wokism and angloism. We conquered and then mixed as our paternal ancestors were sent from spain hundreds of years ago. Modern spaniards stayed in spain. And then ours defeated the spaniards in the war of independance centuries later (expetion puerto rico, puerto rico was betrayed by spain). Spaniards majorily don't come from criollos. There's a very small exception of spaniards that do. But mostly, they don't.

About them moving to spain? I don't know, some latin americans move there, but I think more rather than move to the US since they move to the US more. I don't have an interest in living in spain. But I'd like to visit some areas.

Interesting point of view.

[B01AB20]

The modern narrative that we were conquered by spain is false. And it's propagated by wokism and angloism.

You can believe whatever you want, but saying that 'it's propagated by wokism and angloism' is a huge stupidity.

Spain conquered The Americas It's the traditional and worldwide opinion all over the world, all over the ages and all over the cultures.

From Franco (super woke and anglo Franco :D ) to the myriad of mexican and latino losers who blame their countries flaws to the fact that 'were conquered and colonized by Spain'.

[HannibaltheGreat]

You can believe whatever you want, but saying that 'it's propagated by wokism and angloism' is a huge stupidity.

Spain conquered The Americas It's the traditional and worldwide opinion all over the world, all over the ages and all over the cultures.

From Franco (super woke and anglo Franco :D ) to the myriad of mexican and latino losers who blame their countries flaws to the fact that 'were conquered and colonized by Spain'.

No no. Hispanic american ancestors conquered the Americas. Your family wasn't here and never was. That's why your family isn't here in america.
And you have no geneology of your family you decend from those people. You people are funny. No paperwork. No dna relations to Full hispanic americans presented of your dna.
Still make baseless claims.
It's only a minority of spaniards that have that in common with us. You're not one of them.
.

[HannibaltheGreat]

It would be like saying the brits conquered the americas when really the anglo americans are the ones that did. Because american ancestors are the ones that came here. Not modern Brits.

[Cristiano viejo]

This is how I know you don't know anything and never looked into colonial records. Even you dont know any of your great great grandparents by name or where from. Lol. What a joke.How do you know I dont know them?? :lol:




3. I know CV says that. Again, speak in an understandable language, not a CV language.
My language is very understandable, more so than Russian. Look if it is, that even monkeys from America speak it :D


Interesting point of view.
And false.


You can believe whatever you want, but saying that 'it's propagated by wokism and angloism' is a huge stupidity.

Spain conquered The Americas It's the traditional and worldwide opinion all over the world, all over the ages and all over the cultures.

According this monkey Hernán Cortés was not Spaniard but a monkey like him ;)

[Rumata]

My language is very understandable, more so than Russian. Look if it is, that even monkeys from America speak it :D
It's not a fact that his Spanish is much better than his English ;)


According this monkey Hernán Cortés was not Spaniard but a monkey like him ;)
To me this monkey sounds like Spaniards became Cuban the moment they started sailing West. I probably should stop interpreting to keep some sanity I have left.

[B01AB20]

No no. Hispanic american ancestors conquered the Americas.

Going by your 'logic' you can't speak of 'Hispanic american ancestors' as if they were the same.

The ones who conquered Cuba have nothing to do with the ones conquering Perú, Chile or whatever other territoty.

Except that they were spaniards form Spain conquering lands in behalf of spanish state.


It's only a minority of spaniards that have that in common with us. You're not one of them.
.

'Us'?. Once more, according to your logic, what do you have in common with a bolivian or an argentinian to group togheter under the label 'hispanic-american?.
According to your logic the answer is nothing. No cuban was in the conquest and colonization of these countries.

According to standard logic, what you have in common to group togheter under the term 'hispanic-american' is ...Spain. :biggrin

But whatever you want man, it's a woke anglo conspiracy.

[B01AB20]

According this monkey Hernán Cortés was not Spaniard but a monkey like him ;)

Hernán Cortés was Cuban!!!

He was registered there.

[Incal]

You can believe whatever you want, but saying that 'it's propagated by wokism and angloism' is a huge stupidity.

Spain conquered The Americas It's the traditional and worldwide opinion all over the world, all over the ages and all over the cultures.


When I was at school that's what we were taught. And back then there was no woke culture or anything like that.




Your ancestors were a bunch of female niggers and weak Amerindians that were fucked by poor Spanish settlers, not even conquistadors, who were just a few bunch.

xD

[HannibaltheGreat]

1
How do you know I dont know them?? [emoji38]


My language is very understandable, more so than Russian. Look if it is, that even monkeys from America speak it :D


And false.


2
According this monkey Hernán Cortés was not Spaniard but a monkey like him ;)




Because you dont know very common events. Such as destruction of osorio, which caused the slave market to practically diminish. Most slave owners just let their slaves go free in the 1600s and so most of the DR population was already mixed. Including some people that are not seemingless mentioned to be mixed. But they were from a military family or rich family. Many records also exist of intermarriage between the child of a slave or grandchild of a slave into the child or grandchild of slave owners. I have that in my family tree. Its why most of the population is mixed. The slave population was small for the most part. At about 13 percent. But the free mixed population was higher than that.

You dont look at the colonial records such as baptisms, deaths, dispensas , marriages ect from the actual countries.

2. No cristiano retardo
Hernan cortez was a spaniard conquistador like 500 years, not a modern Armchair conquistador like you.

But his children are not your ancestors. Hernan cortez himself went to the vatician to legitimize his son martin cortez (of la malinche). He was mestizo

You know about this but get sad when you remember your ancestors were bastards with no papertrail.
Its not my fault they were.

Getting jealous that our ancestors conquered the world and yours did nothing is not my fault.
If you looked into old records, then you would have known your ancestors, but you dont. Hence a bastardo.

[Cristiano viejo]

Hernán Cortés was Cuban!!!

He was registered there.

Just to put the topic in context: this user Hannibal the Great claims Cristóbal Colón was his ancestor :pound:

Ya está todo dicho :pound:

[HannibaltheGreat]

Just to put the topic in context: this user Hannibal the Great claims Cristóbal Colón was his ancestor :pound:

Ya está todo dicho :pound:

He was.

https://www.academia.edu/resource/work/48922337

[Cristiano viejo]

He was.

https://www.academia.edu/resource/work/48922337

:smilie_auslachen:

[Incal]

Just to put the topic in context: this user Hannibal the Great claims Cristóbal Colón was his ancestor :pound:

Ya está todo dicho :pound:

Pala mierda

Superó a ReMula que se creía más vasco que gixajo y periko xD

[HannibaltheGreat]

Pala mierda

Superó a ReMula que se creía más vasco que gixajo y periko xDYou don't do geneology to know. You're probably in the same boat as CV. A bastard not knowing his ancestors.

[Cristiano viejo]

You don't do geneology to know. You're probably in the same boat as CV. A bastard not knowing his ancestors.

A triracial calling bastard to others, lmao :lol:

[HannibaltheGreat]

A triracial calling bastard to others, lmao [emoji38]Yep. Because you and him obviously dont know anything about your ancestors. You may know about other peoples ancestors. Not your own lmao. You dont even know any of your great grandparents or great great randparents lol.

[Cristiano viejo]

Yep. Because you and him obviously dont know anything about your ancestors.

And how do you know this, tell me? :laugh:

[HannibaltheGreat]

And how do you know this, tell me? [emoji23]Because you can't tell me anything about your ancestors. It's very obvious. None by name ,year born and where. Or year of death.

[Incal]

You don't do geneology to know. You're probably in the same boat as CV. A bastard not knowing his ancestors.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxpjCPcX0AADwXR?format=jpg&name=medium

[HannibaltheGreat]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxpjCPcX0AADwXR?format=jpg&name=mediumI mean, you would still be a bastard and I wouldn't.
Calling me negro doesnt mean you know your ancestors lol.

[Cristiano viejo]

Because you can't tell me anything about your ancestors. It's very obvious. None by name ,year born and where. Or year of death.
And how do you know I could not, tell me, descendant of Colón ( :lol: )??

[HannibaltheGreat]

And how do you know I could not, tell me, descendant of Colón ( [emoji38] )??I already sent you the link with the geneologies. It has many sources referenced to look at.
I am related to colombus through different lines of Juan Colon Davila who had children with Leonor de luyando.
Juan colon davila was a decendant of colon from his mothers side.
Many puerto ricans are. Colon is one of the most common last names. But the colon family migrated in the 1600s from DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. Juan Colon davilas father was a judge in Santo Domingo. Yes, some dominicans are also decendants of Colombus. But the colon populated much more in puerto rico and in particular Coamo is where my colon lineage comes from. My great grandmother was born a colon lol. So I know. Unlike you, you dont know anything.

[HannibaltheGreat]

Like I said. Lol

https://i.imgur.com/ajz3sHB.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/zEafYWU.jpeg

[Laredo]

Like I said. Lol

https://i.imgur.com/ajz3sHB.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/zEafYWU.jpeg

Are you Zebruh? You remind me of him

[Östsvensk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zF5UovmW18

[Cristiano viejo]

I already sent you the link with the geneologies. It has many sources referenced to look at.
I am related to colombus

:pound:

whatever makes you happy (and delusional) :laugh:

[HannibaltheGreat]

:pound:

whatever makes you happy (and delusional) [emoji23]Sounds like a coping mechanism.
Sorry you don't know anything about your ancestors.

[Cristiano viejo]

Sounds like a coping mechanism.
Sounds like you are a very delusional triracial.

Look, true descendants of Colón, they live in Spain and you look nothing like them :thumb001:

https://www.eltiempo.com/files/image_1200_680/uploads/2019/06/25/5d12564a3047c.jpeg

https://uh.gsstatic.es/sfAttachPlugin/getCachedContent/id/274252/width/730/height/500/crop/1

You dont have his surname nor his look, you are just a bastard negro with obviously zero proofs.


Sorry you don't know anything about your ancestors.
But how do you know that, tell me?? :D:

[Incal]

Sounds like you are a very delusional triracial.

Look, true descendants of Colón, they live in Spain and you look nothing like them :thumb001:

:

Exacto. Rarísimo porque Colón volvió a Europa. Que un zambo inmigrante kk en estados unidos se crea descendiente está bastante raro.

[HannibaltheGreat]

Exacto. Rarísimo porque Colón volvió a Europa. Que un zambo inmigrante kk en estados unidos se crea descendiente está bastante raro.

It doesn't matter if I was zambo. They all mixed later on. Obviously, i have proof of colon in PR being recommended for high rank of teniente a guerra in Coamo Puerto rico.

Obviously this is cope and a bunch of retards and bastards who know nothing about their own ancestors thinking they know what they know what they are talking about.

the evidence is out there.
Low IQ rebuttle.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Col%C3%B3n
Don Diego Colón tuvo 6 hijos con doña María Álvarez de Toledo:

María Colón de Toledo: Casó con Sancho Folch de Cardona y Ruiz de Lihori,[10]​ I marqués de Guadalest, y engendró a Cristóbal de Cardona y Colón de Toledo (II marqués de Guadalest), Luis de Cardona y Colón de Toledo (Señor de la Alcudia) y María de Cardona y Colón de Toledo (III marquesa de Guadalest).[10]​


Luis Colón de Toledo: II Duque de Veragua, II Marqués de la Jamaica, III Gran almirante y Adelantado Mayor de las Indias y I Duque de la Vega de Santo Domingo.[11]​ Casó con María de Mosquera y Pasamonte, hija de Juan de Mosquera (regidor del ayuntamiento de Santo Domingo), y engendró a Felipa (duquesa de Veragua y de la Vega de Santo Domingo y marquesa de la Jamaica; casó con su primo Diego Colón de Toledo, falleció sin descendencia en 1577) y a María Colón de Mosquera (monja).

Tuvo a Cristóbal Colón de Carvajal (1565-1601) en un segundo matrimonio, con Luisa de Carvajal, quien falleció sin hijos.


Juana Colón de Toledo: Casó con su primo Luis de la Cueva y Toledo.


Isabel Colón de Toledo: Casó con Jorge Alberto de Portugal y Melo, I conde de Gelves, hijo de Álvaro de Braganza.


Cristóbal Colón de Toledo: Casó con María Leonor Lerma de Zuazo; no tuvo descendencia. Casó luego con Ana de Pravia y la Rocha, con quien engendró a Diego Colón de Pravia (casó con su prima Felipa Colón de Mosquera) y a Francisca Colón de Pravia (casó con Diego
de Ortegón).



https://www.geni.com/people/Juan-Col%C3%B3n-de-Avila/6000000045928361857

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Columbus


Cristóbal Colón de Toledo (c. 1510 – 1571), married firstly to María Leonor Lerma de Zuazo, without issue; married secondly to Ana de Pravia, and had one son (Diego Colon y Pravia [c. 1551 - Jan 27, 1578]) and one daughter (Francisca Colon y Pravia, [c. 1552 - April 1616]; and married thirdly to María Magadalena de Guzmán y Anaya, and had:
Diego Colón de Toledo, father of Diego the 4th Admiral of the Indies.
Francisca Colón de Toledo y Pravia (c. 1550 – April, 1616), married Diego de Ortegón (c. 1550 –), and had four children: Guiomar de Ortegon y Colon [d. 1621]; Jacoba de Oretgon y Colon [d. 1618]; Ana de Ortegon y Colon; and Josefa de Ortegon y Colon[12]

María Colón de Toledo y Guzmán (c. 1550 –), married to Luis de Avila, and had:
Cristóbal de Avila y Colón (1579 –), unmarried and without issue

Luis de Avila y Colón (1582-1633), married Maria de Rojas-Guzman Grajeda, without issue; married secondly to Francisca de Sandoval and had one son Cristobal

Juan Colón Dávila ( - 1622), married Leonor Luyando y Manuel and had three sons.


Bernardino Dávila y Colón ( - 1633)
Maria de Avila y Colón (1592-), married Alonso de Guzman Grajeda and had one daughter (Mayor de Grajeda y Avila [c.1611-])

Magdalena Dávila Colón (1592-1621)
María Dávila Colón (1596 -)
Casó por tercera vez con María Magdalena de Guzmán y Anaya, y engendró a María Colón de Guzmán (casó con Luis de Ávila y Benavides, señor del mayorazgo de Dávila).


Diego Colón de Toledo: Nació en Santo Domingo en 1524 y casó en secreto con Isabel Justiniani o Justiniano y Sánchez en 1544, hija de Battista Justiniani y Justiniani, natural de la República de Génova, y Brígida Sánchez y Mendoza, natural de Sevilla. [/b]

Tuvo dos hijos legítimos: Cristóbal y Luis Colón y Justiniano. Isabel era sobrina carnal de la ayudante de cámara de la Virreina, Isabel Núñez de Andrada y Agüero.
Diego Colón de Toledo murió en 1546, a los 22 años, en Nombre de Dios, Panamá, asesinado por los naturales.[12]​[/IMG]

[/b]


https://i.imgur.com/AfGLVQM.jpeg

[HannibaltheGreat]

Sounds like you are a very delusional triracial.

Look, true descendants of Colón, they live in Spain and you look nothing like them :thumb001:

https://www.eltiempo.com/files/image_1200_680/uploads/2019/06/25/5d12564a3047c.jpeg

https://uh.gsstatic.es/sfAttachPlugin/getCachedContent/id/274252/width/730/height/500/crop/1

You dont have his surname nor his look, you are just a bastard negro with obviously zero proofs.


But how do you know that, tell me?? :D:And? That is his ancestor too. Not yours. He is one of the Rare spaniards that are.

But majority puerto ricans are decendants of Colon. Much more than Spain.

In fact colon is not even in the top 40 common last names in spain lmao [emoji1787]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_Spanish_surnames


Serrano*– 122,700 (0.31%) "Highlander"

Ramos*– 118,000 (0.30%) Branches; meaning born during Christian festivity*Palm Sunday

Blanco*– 118,000 (0.30%) "White"

Sanz*– 106,900 (0.27%)

Castro*– 102,900 (0.26%) "village". See*castro*and*castrum

Suárez*– 102,900 (0.26%) Son of Suero or Suaro; unknown origin

Ortega*– 99,000 (0.25%) From Ortiga, nettle plant

Rubio*– 99,000 (0.25%) Blond, fair-haired; Latin Rubeus, meaning ruddy, reddish

Molina*– 99,000 (0.25%) (Mill, place with mills)

Delgado*– 95,000 (0.24%) "Thin man"

Ramírez*– 95,000 (0.24%) Son of Ramiro, Radamir, or Radmir; Germanic

Morales*– 95,000 (0.24%) Blackberry groves

Ortiz*– 87,120 (0.22%) Son of Orti; from Basque*Ortún, from Latin*Fortis, meaning strong one, or Latin*Fortunius, meaning fortunate one

Marín*- 83,160 (0.21%) Latin Marinus, meaning marine

Iglesias*– 83,160 (0.21%) "Churches






It is in puerto rico.
Massive cope haha



https://i.imgur.com/sQ45QrK.jpeg


Bastards and idiots lol.
Isnt that funny. More "negros" are decendants of colon in Puerto Rico than spaniards lmao. Bastard Morons [emoji38]

[HannibaltheGreat]

Oh yea you low IQ cristiano bastardo.
I said it was my great grandmother who has that name.
Hahahaha. What a stupid fuck
Obviously im not likely to carry it.

[Cristiano viejo]

And? That is his ancestor too. Not yours. He is one of the Rare spaniards that are.


Difference is that I never claimed be it.

And hey, posting wikipedia links of historical characters does not make you their descendant, stupid. It is like if I claim Isabel la Católica was my ancestor and my proof is posting this https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_I_de_Castilla
:lol:

[HannibaltheGreat]

Difference is that I never claimed be it.

And hey, posting wikipedia links of historical characters does not make you their descendant, stupid. It is like if I claim Isabel la Católica was my ancestor and my proof is posting this https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_I_de_Castilla
[emoji38]


Lol, the Cope. It isn't even close. Because you aren't connecting this to anything else ( a source) to show its relative to your ancestry in spain.
Lol

[Cristiano viejo]

Lol, the Cope. It isn't even close. Because you aren't connecting this to anything else ( a source) to show its relative to your ancestry in spain.
Lol
You should know the Colón descendants belong to the nobility, something a low class black from New York like you obviously does not do ;)

[ugochaves]

Sounds like you are a very delusional triracial.

Look, true descendants of Colón, they live in Spain and you look nothing like them :thumb001:

https://www.eltiempo.com/files/image_1200_680/uploads/2019/06/25/5d12564a3047c.jpeg

https://uh.gsstatic.es/sfAttachPlugin/getCachedContent/id/274252/width/730/height/500/crop/1

You dont have his surname nor his look, you are just a bastard negro with obviously zero proofs.


But how do you know that, tell me?? :D:
What's the thrill of being white? I'm whiter than you, but I absolutely don't care that I'm white.

[Cristiano viejo]

What's the thrill of being white? I'm whiter than you, but I absolutely don't care that I'm white.

Whiter than me?? let doubt it.

[HannibaltheGreat]

You should know the Colón descendants belong to the nobility, something a low class black from New York like you obviously does not do ;)

Uhh.. You're low IQ. That's why you didn't even know that colon is the 7th most common apellido in puerto rico lmao. It's also why you know nothing about your ancestors. You have no argument other than you're low class black from NYC? This is a really dumb argument because I am mixed. I am 1/4 black. Which is not black by most societies standards. But yes I do have admixture.



Truly, Truly truly low IQ. Notice how I am here , but you were banned for so a good while. And i was here while you banned lol. Because you're low IQ. You can't figure anything out, bastardo estupido. [emoji106]

You are low class because because instead of putting up good arguments, your last resort is adhominens that I am black. More blacks in PR are decendants of Colon lmao. You're a bastard and "blacks" in have more "noble" blood than you in PR [emoji1787]

[Cristiano viejo]

Uhh.. You're low IQ. That's why you didn't even know that colon is the 7th most common apellido in puerto rico

I stopped to read here :pound: maybe you think all these people with the surname Colón descend from the Almirant :pound: you are dumber than what I thought, and believe me, I thought you were super dumb :lol:

No, negro, having the surname Colón does not make you a descendant of Colón, same than Peruvians with the surname Pizarro, very common there, are not descendants of Pizarro, just all of you bastards adopted the surname of your owners :picard1:

Amazing that in 2023 people still have to learn such basic things :picard1:

[HannibaltheGreat]

I stopped to read here :pound: maybe you think all these people with the surname Colón descend from the Almirant :pound: you are dumber than what I thought, and believe me, I thought you were super dumb [emoji38]

No, negro, having the surname Colón does not make you a descendant of Colón, same than Peruvians with the surname Pizarro, very common there, are not descendants of Pizarro, just all of you bastards adopted the surname of your owners :picard1:

Amazing that in 2023 people still have to learn such basic things :picard1:

Una canciones para el Cristiano VBarstado, CV [emoji38]

So mad lol. Mad at the truth that he is a bastard. We are decendants of colon. Lol

https://youtu.be/l1mpl-NPxS0

[Laredo]

I stopped to read here :pound: maybe you think all these people with the surname Colón descend from the Almirant :pound: you are dumber than what I thought, and believe me, I thought you were super dumb :lol:

No, negro, having the surname Colón does not make you a descendant of Colón, same than Peruvians with the surname Pizarro, very common there, are not descendants of Pizarro, just all of you bastards adopted the surname of your owners :picard1:

Amazing that in 2023 people still have to learn such basic things :picard1:

Spanish surnames In Mexican Is Iegitimte, Spaniard men gave their surnames to their offspring In the colonial era this can be found among church records through Ancestry.com


Those are the Filipinos their owners gave them Castilian surnames but have 0% blood!!!! xD

[ugochaves]

Whiter than me?? let doubt it.
You regularly try to prove that you are white. That means you doubt it.

[Cristiano viejo]

You regularly try to prove that you are white. That means you doubt it.

I dont need to prove anything, it was you who brought the topic.

[Mafrense]

Welcome back, zebruh.

[Lobster]

Yes, less brutal. That is why Latinos have lot of Native ancestry unlike whites in North America that look often very Nordic

[Mortimer]

The Spaniards seem brutale to the black slaves though, i dont know about amerindians...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzLgLd0NpBI

[Incal]

The Spaniards seem brutale to the black slaves though, i dont know about amerindians...

You are basing that on a soap opera???? You should open a book once in a while, you got plenty of time.