R-Z16539

[Boudin]

What can anyone tell me about this haplogroup?

[Beowulf]

https://i.postimg.cc/7663mkCF/descarga-7.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Boudin]

R-Z16539 is Irish? I once made a heatmap that showed the biggest hotspot in central France. But now when I go to that heatmap website, it doesn't have R-Z16539 anymore.

[Beowulf]

R-Z16539 is Irish? I once made a heatmap that showed the biggest hotspot in central France. But now when I go to that heatmap website, it doesn't have R-Z16539 anymore.

Probably is Britonnic or Hibernian and could probably moved to Gaul?

[Boudin]

Probably is Britonnic or Hibernian and could probably moved to Gaul?

I did some more research and discovered what I was looking for:


My paternal line can be genealogically traced back to 1600s central France
I found only two Frenchmen with this haplogroup, both who lived in the 1600s
One of these two Frenchman shares my surname, basically proving my paternal line hasn't been obfuscated by any NPE, so it's not from any of the other countries where this haplogroup is also present (England & Scotland)

[Beowulf]

I did some more research and discovered what I was looking for:


My paternal line can be genealogically traced back to 1600s central France
I found only two Frenchmen with this haplogroup, both who lived in the 1600s
One of these two Frenchman shares my surname, basically proving my paternal line hasn't been obfuscated by any NPE, so it's not from any of the other countries where this haplogroup is also present (England & Scotland)



You did a good investigation :)

for my Paternal line i can trace it as much to 1600 in Aragón (Calatayud) but my surname supposedly originates in the pyrenean area of Aragón in the north is a toponimyc surname, in my paternal line there are also many french immigrants, mostly from Occitanie and central france and more distant but few from NW France.

[Boudin]

You did a good investigation :)

for my Paternal line i can trace it as much to 1600 in Aragón (Calatayud) but my surname supposedly originates in the pyrenean area of Aragón in the north is a toponimyc surname, in my paternal line there are also many french immigrants, mostly from Occitanie and central france and more distant but few from NW France.

I guess it was easy to trace yours, if it was a toponymic surname.

[Beowulf]

I guess it was easy to trace yours, if it was a toponymic surname.


Yeah kind of, i had some relatives helping me and i think it was easier because they were rich people and of high status, but they lost almost everything after my direct paternal Great Great Grandpa after the civil war more or less according to my grandpa.

[Boudin]

Yeah kind of, i had some relatives helping me and i think it was easier because they were rich people and of high status, but they lost almost everything after my direct paternal Great Great Grandpa after the civil war more or less according to my grandpa.

Spanish Civil War in WW2?

[Beowulf]

Spanish Civil War in WW2?

Yes after the spanish civil war

[Boudin]

Yes after the spanish civil war

So they lost their riches and high status in the Spanish Civil War? What side were they on? My paternal line runs through rich, high-status folks too. But at some point in the past 200 years they obviously lost it :D

[Beowulf]

So they lost their riches and high status in the Spanish Civil War? What side were they on? My paternal line runs through rich, high-status folks too. But at some point in the past 200 years they obviously lost it :D

Republican side, my great great grandfather was something like " the chieftain " of the town during the war, he wasn't killed but was brought to Jail, he also selled most of the familiar terrains, possesions and wasted a lot of money in useless things

here is a photo of him too:

https://i.postimg.cc/hjCHJLJy/Screenshot-20231115-210033.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Boudin]

Republican side, my great great grandfather was something like " the chieftain " of the town during the war, he wasn't killed but was brought to Jail, he also selled most of the familiar terrains, possesions and wasted a lot of money in useless things

here is a photo of him too:

https://i.postimg.cc/hjCHJLJy/Screenshot-20231115-210033.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Dignified-looking man.

[lei.talk]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.pngWikipedia https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War)) The Republican faction (Spanish: Bando republicano), also known as the Loyalist faction (Bando leal) or the Government faction (Bando gubernamental), was the side in the Spanish Civil War of 1936 to 1939 that supported the government of the Second Spanish Republic against the Nationalist faction of the military rebellion. The name Republicans (republicanos) was mainly used by its members and supporters, while its opponents used the term Rojos (Reds) to refer to this faction due to its left-leaning ideology, including far-left communist and anarchist groups, and the support it received from the Soviet Union. At the beginning of the war, the Republicans outnumbered the Nationalists by ten-to-one, but by January 1937 that advantage had dropped to four-to-one. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War))

[Beowulf]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.pngWikipedia https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War)) The Republican faction (Spanish: Bando republicano), also known as the Loyalist faction (Bando leal) or the Government faction (Bando gubernamental), was the side in the Spanish Civil War of 1936 to 1939 that supported the government of the Second Spanish Republic against the Nationalist faction of the military rebellion. The name Republicans (republicanos) was mainly used by its members and supporters, while its opponents used the term Rojos (Reds) to refer to this faction due to its left-leaning ideology, including far-left communist and anarchist groups, and the support it received from the Soviet Union. At the beginning of the war, the Republicans outnumbered the Nationalists by ten-to-one, but by January 1937 that advantage had dropped to four-to-one. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War))


The details of what did my great great grandfather during the war is unknown only my great grandparents likely knew and i could never met them all i know from him is from oral familiar history.

[gixajo]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.pngWikipedia https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War)) The Republican faction (Spanish: Bando republicano), also known as the Loyalist faction (Bando leal) or the Government faction (Bando gubernamental), was the side in the Spanish Civil War of 1936 to 1939 that supported the government of the Second Spanish Republic against the Nationalist faction of the military rebellion. The name Republicans (republicanos) was mainly used by its members and supporters, while its opponents used the term Rojos (Reds) to refer to this faction due to its left-leaning ideology, including far-left communist and anarchist groups, and the support it received from the Soviet Union. At the beginning of the war, the Republicans outnumbered the Nationalists by ten-to-one, but by January 1937 that advantage had dropped to four-to-one. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War))

In the Republican side, at least at the beginning of the war, there were not just Communist., they were also many center-ledt republican parties, supported by upper bourgeoisie or culturally educated people.

As the war progressed, the Republican side became completely dominated by the Soviet Union, at first there was quite a variety of positions. At the end of the war, the only parties that dominated the republic were the socialist party and the communist party.

Soviet control of the Spanish Republic was consummated with the repression of two of the most "dissident" republican political groups with respect to Moscow's theses: the FAI/CNT (anarchists) and the POUM (accused of being Trotskyist), with the elimination of the most prominent leaders, dissolution of parties, and dissolution of all military units formed by militias of different parties into a single "popular army of the republic, under a single command.

The case of Beowulf's Republican family is similar to my Andalusian paternal side: they were from a quite educated and well situated economically "moderatedly leftist" family, but youngest ones like my granfather and his brothers, as usualy young people use to do , supported more "extremist" factions on the Republican side.

[Beowulf]

The case of Beowulf's Republican family is similar to my Andalusian paternal side: they were from a quite educated and well situated economically "moderatedly leftist" family, but youngest ones, as usualy young people use to do , supported more "extremist" factions on the Republican side.

My Great Great Grandfather was also from Jaén like your father only the elder ones came from Aragón to Jaén.

[gixajo]

My Great Great Grandfather was also from Jaén like your father only the elder ones came from Aragón to Jaén.

My paternal grandfather had a photo of his father in one of the rooms of his house in Vitoria, very similar to that of your ancestor. He had a lot of respect for him, so much so that when he died he had himself cremated with that photo.

I have mentioned it before here, in the case of my family it is the opposite of what people usually assume, my Andalusian family was educated, bourgeois with a comfortable existence, owners of several businesses with many employees and left-wing, while my family Basques were traditionalist right-wing, small-town, poorly educated and comparatively poor.