Classify Nazi anthropologist Eva Justin

[Veslan]

https://alchetron.com/cdn/eva-justin-69d20981-ab99-4209-9c1a-8ddbef4187b-resize-750.jpeg
https://static.prsa.pl/images/86b25581-aae7-4cca-a180-961b05ac9021.jpg?format=500
https://alchetron.com/cdn/eva-justin-3d181634-7bca-4b05-95b3-bd632974e69-resize-750.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1986-044-10%2C_Stein-Pfalz%2C_Eva_Justin_bei_Sch%C3%A4delmessung.jpg/340px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1986-044-10%2C_Stein-Pfalz%2C_Eva_Justin_bei_Sch%C3%A4delmessung.jpg
https://sfi.usc.edu/sites/default/files/roma-sinti/assets/gallery/legislazione/eva-justin/Bundesarchiv%203.jpg

[Jana]

Noric

[Hektor12]

Noric

Agree, Corded stronk.

[Xacal]

Norid

[rothaer]

Eva Justin, 1964:

https://i.imgur.com/6yLZEep.jpg

[Sebastianus Rex]

Her nose deserves to be measured.

[Veslan]

Agree, Corded stronk.

She looked a bit like a female version of Reinhard Heydrich. Interestingly, both were born in Saxony (including Saxony-Anhalt)...
Btw seems like Corded influence in Germany is the strongest in formerly Slavic lands.

[Smeagol]

Looks part Jewish like Heydrich.

[Aldaris]

I am not much into this, but East Baltid.

[rothaer]

She looked a bit like a female version of Reinhard Heydrich. Interestingly, both were born in Saxony (including Saxony-Anhalt)...
Btw seems like Corded influence in Germany is the strongest in formerly Slavic lands.

Well seen, left beside the question whether this is a "corded" (CWC) influence.

There is a geographically togetherhanging southernish influence in Bohemia, Moravia, Lower Silesia, Upper Saxony, Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt (roughly marked with a red ring). The map shows Linearbandkeramik (LBK). It will thus have been the ever since pre population in that area, no matter whether they later were Celts, Germanics, Slavs or Germans/Czechs.

https://i.imgur.com/2DD9mCL.jpg

[ugochaves]

Her nose deserves to be measured.
I was embarrassed to say that. Thank you. The tip of the nose is too well-fed to be a norik. I find it difficult to classify, but the atmosphere is Armenoid

[rothaer]

Looks part Jewish like Heydrich.

True, although the assessment of what is "looking part Jewish" will have to be re-considered.

[rothaer]

I was embarrassed to say that. Thank you. The tip of the nose is too well-fed to be a norik. I find it difficult to classify, but the atmosphere is Armenoid

Yes, including the lip "atmoshere".

[Roy]

Noric

But she also looks somewhat Armenoid as well.

[ugochaves]

Noric

But she also looks somewhat Armenoid as well.
A thickened tip of the nose can be a sign of baltid even when mixed with nordid. It is unlikely that the German had Baltic roots. Are there any Noric with a thickening of the tip of the nose in old age? The lip is incomprehensible. The influence of Med is possible?

[Katarzyna]

She looks like a mix of Norid and some Armenoid.
Usually something pale European + Armenoid results in a look that most of us perceive as “Jewish” which we can see here. Btw if I was the Nazi anthropologist I am sure I wouldn’t let her “pass”.

[ugochaves]

She looks like a mix of Norid and some Armenoid.
Usually something pale European + Armenoid results in a look that most of us perceive as “Jewish” which we can see here. Btw if I was the Nazi anthropologist I am sure I wouldn’t let her “pass”.
Propaganda turns poorly educated people into slaves of the system. It was a mistake to separate Slavs and Balts from Germans. The Germans are 60% far from the Nordids, much less Nordids than the Eastern Slavs. But we have to be honest about the classification. Do you need to understand that the tip of Norik's nose increases with age? My Ukrainian grandmother was a Norik by phenotype + a bit of a brachycephalic climber, and the same for me. Her nose has not changed in old age - very thin protruding and with a hump, the tip of the nose is also very thin, small. But you and I need to understand the statistics. If there is another norik here, we need to hear your opinion

[Veslan]

I was embarrassed to say that. Thank you. The tip of the nose is too well-fed to be a norik. I find it difficult to classify, but the atmosphere is Armenoid

Nazi anthropologist and Armenoid influenced? That sounds interesting...

Fun fact about her: she learned Romani language just so she could work better as an assistant of another Nazi anthropolgist Robert Ritter in examining Gypsies. The final conclusion of her PhD was that Gypsies are biologically predisposed to be criminals and should be deported to concentration camps

[ugochaves]

Nazi anthropologist and Armenoid influenced? That sounds interesting...

Fun fact about her: she learned Romani language just so she could work better as an assistant of another Nazi anthropolgist Robert Ritter in examining Gypsies. The final conclusion of her PhD was that Gypsies are biologically predisposed to be criminals and should be deported to concentration camps
Why are you telling me this? I'm not saying she's Jewish, I don't care. Rather, on the contrary, I'm trying to find European facial features in her, so I ask, how is it possible to be in Europe?
https://i.ibb.co/b1WPhF8/image-2-jpeg.png (https://ibb.co/31r7XvL)

[Katarzyna]

Nazi anthropologist and Armenoid influenced? That sounds interesting...

Fun fact about her: she learned Romani language just so she could work better as an assistant of another Nazi anthropolgist Robert Ritter in examining Gypsies. The final conclusion of her PhD was that Gypsies are biologically predisposed to be criminals and should be deported to concentration camps

Yes it is so ironic that usually the biggest nazis were the most Jewish-looking.

[Veslan]

Why are you telling me this? I'm not saying she's Jewish, I don't care. Rather, on the contrary, I'm trying to find European facial features in her, so I ask, how is it possible to be in Europe?

Tbh I don't really think she had a Jewish admixture (and neither that Heydrich had) because it is statistically not very likely. This nose is more likely a Bell-Beaker/Dinaric influence and that's it. Just found it ironic so many users see Armenoid influence in literal Nazis.

[ugochaves]

Yes it is so ironic that usually the biggest nazis were the most Jewish-looking.
Hitler was a semi-Asian in comparison with the Russians. I can't say everything about what I think about him, in some way....but his mistake is to consider the Aryan Eastern Slavs inferior, while the Croats are considered Aryans)))))

[ugochaves]

My English is shit

[ugochaves]

Tbh I don't really think she had a Jewish admixture (and neither that Heydrich had) because it is statistically not very likely. This nose is more likely a Bell-Beaker/Dinaric influence and that's it. Just found it ironic so many users see Armenoid influence in literal Nazis.
Shit and honesty are different. I think German Nazis are shit and my grandfathers fucked them. Now I have cooled down and the Germans are a great civilization for me, so only facts in the classification of any people

[rothaer]

Propaganda turns poorly educated people into slaves of the system. It was a mistake to separate Slavs and Balts from Germans. The Germans are 60% far from the Nordids, much less Nordids than the Eastern Slavs. But we have to be honest about the classification. Do you need to understand that the tip of Norik's nose increases with age? My Ukrainian grandmother was a Norik by phenotype + a bit of a brachycephalic climber, and the same for me. Her nose has not changed in old age - very thin protruding and with a hump, the tip of the nose is also very thin, small. But you and I need to understand the statistics. If there is another norik here, we need to hear your opinion

All cartilage parts grow with age. However, statistically.

[Hektor12]

Eva Justin, 1964:

https://i.imgur.com/6yLZEep.jpg

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/gettyimages-1188052265.jpg

*As far as i know, shes mostly German genetically.

[rothaer]

Tbh I don't really think she had a Jewish admixture (and neither that Heydrich had) because it is statistically not very likely. This nose is more likely a Bell-Beaker/Dinaric influence and that's it. Just found it ironic so many users see Armenoid influence in literal Nazis.

Regarding Jews people are often reacting somewhat arbitrarily. When there is told that someone is a Jew then suddenly everybody sees it like a heureka: "Yes, clearly, now I see it!"

Wouldn't everybody say so if there was told that Adolf Eichmann is a Jew (which he is not)?

https://i.imgur.com/bc34jf4.jpg

[rothaer]

Fun fact about her: she learned Romani language just so she could work better as an assistant of another Nazi anthropolgist Robert Ritter in examining Gypsies. The final conclusion of her PhD was that Gypsies are biologically predisposed to be criminals and should be deported to concentration camps

Fun fact II (translated from the German Wikipedia article on her.):

Until 1962, Justin appraised "Gypsies" for the city of Frankfurt, including those she had appraised for the Rassenhygienische Forschungsstelle before 1945. She was transferred because of a television film made by Irmgard and Valentin Senger.[17]
In 1964, she carried out field research in a caravan or so-called "Gypsy camp" near Frankfurt-Bonames and then worked as an employee of the University Neurological Clinic in Frankfurt am Main.

[ugochaves]

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/gettyimages-1188052265.jpg

*As far as i know, shes mostly German genetically.
You're trolling everyone, both Germans and Russians. Show me your black face.

[Please]

http://www.mourningtheancient.com/truth-womanwork28-justin3.jpg

[Token]

Noric. Very typical eastern German, those who say she looks Jewish are delirating.

[Roy]

A thickened tip of the nose can be a sign of baltid even when mixed with nordid. It is unlikely that the German had Baltic roots. Are there any Noric with a thickening of the tip of the nose in old age? The lip is incomprehensible. The influence of Med is possible?

The nose and eyes are quite distinctive. She looks like she could be Einstein's sister or something. But it's mostly in the first photo.

[Smeagol]

Tbh I don't really think she had a Jewish admixture (and neither that Heydrich had)

Himmler and Hitler seemed to think Heydrich did. As Himmler expressed to Felix Kersten:
He had overcome the Jew in himself by purely intellectual means and had swung over to the other side. He was convinced that the Jewish elements in his blood were damnable; he hated the blood which had played him so false. The Fuhrer could really have picked no better man than Heydrich for the campaign against the Jews. For them he was without mercy or pity. For the rest it will interest you to know that Heydrich was a very good violinist. He once played a serenade in my honour; it was really excellent — a pity that he did not do more in this field.

[rothaer]

Himmler and Hitler seemed to think Heydrich did. As Himmler expressed to Felix Kersten:
He had overcome the Jew in himself by purely intellectual means and had swung over to the other side. He was convinced that the Jewish elements in his blood were damnable; he hated the blood which had played him so false. The Fuhrer could really have picked no better man than Heydrich for the campaign against the Jews. For them he was without mercy or pity. For the rest it will interest you to know that Heydrich was a very good violinist. He once played a serenade in my honour; it was really excellent — a pity that he did not do more in this field.

Translated from the German Wikipedia article on Heydrich:

From his youth into adulthood, Heydrich was confronted with rumours about his Jewish ancestry on his father's side (alleged Jewish grandfather). This culminated in an investigation, ordered in 1932 by Gregor Strasser and instigated by Rudolf Jordan, the Gauleiter of Halle-Merseburg. The suspicion was based primarily on the fact that the father, Bruno Heydrich, was described in the 1916 Riemann Musiklexikon as "Heydrich, Bruno, real name Süß" - Süß was a common Jewish name. This formulation came from Bruno Heydrich's former student Martin Frey, who was related to the editor of the encyclopaedia and "wanted to avenge himself in this way for his expulsion from the conservatoire". Heydrich instigated a lawsuit for "libel" against the editors, which he won.[91]

However, the investigation revealed that Heydrich's grandfather had died at an early age and his grandmother had married a man named Süß in her second marriage, thus Heydrich did not have "Jewish blood" in him at all. Heydrich's personal file (including the genealogical table) was kept by Martin Bormann and has been preserved. The genealogical chart lists only one generation of the maternal line; the grandmother's name, origin and place of birth are missing, whereas this was a requirement for the genealogical chart of even every ordinary SS man.

Robert Kempner was convinced until the 1950s that the head of the office of the expert for racial research at the Reich Ministry of the Interior, Achim Gercke, had delivered a favourable opinion in 1932. In 1966, Shlomo Aronson traced Heydrich's genealogy back to 1688 on his mother's side and to 1738 on his father's side, thus proving that all rumours of Jewish ancestry were false. [92] The same conclusion was reached by Robert Gerwarth in 2011,[4] who also emphasised that Aronson's dissertation "has the merit of having refuted a long-lived myth [...] that has been revived again and again by former SS colleagues and early biographers: the myth of Heydrich's Jewish ancestry."[93]

[Smeagol]

Translated from the German Wikipedia article on Heydrich:

From his youth into adulthood, Heydrich was confronted with rumours about his Jewish ancestry on his father's side (alleged Jewish grandfather). This culminated in an investigation, ordered in 1932 by Gregor Strasser and instigated by Rudolf Jordan, the Gauleiter of Halle-Merseburg. The suspicion was based primarily on the fact that the father, Bruno Heydrich, was described in the 1916 Riemann Musiklexikon as "Heydrich, Bruno, real name Süß" - Süß was a common Jewish name. This formulation came from Bruno Heydrich's former student Martin Frey, who was related to the editor of the encyclopaedia and "wanted to avenge himself in this way for his expulsion from the conservatoire". Heydrich instigated a lawsuit for "libel" against the editors, which he won.[91]

However, the investigation revealed that Heydrich's grandfather had died at an early age and his grandmother had married a man named Süß in her second marriage, thus Heydrich did not have "Jewish blood" in him at all. Heydrich's personal file (including the genealogical table) was kept by Martin Bormann and has been preserved. The genealogical chart lists only one generation of the maternal line; the grandmother's name, origin and place of birth are missing, whereas this was a requirement for the genealogical chart of even every ordinary SS man.

Robert Kempner was convinced until the 1950s that the head of the office of the expert for racial research at the Reich Ministry of the Interior, Achim Gercke, had delivered a favourable opinion in 1932. In 1966, Shlomo Aronson traced Heydrich's genealogy back to 1688 on his mother's side and to 1738 on his father's side, thus proving that all rumours of Jewish ancestry were false. [92] The same conclusion was reached by Robert Gerwarth in 2011,[4] who also emphasised that Aronson's dissertation "has the merit of having refuted a long-lived myth [...] that has been revived again and again by former SS colleagues and early biographers: the myth of Heydrich's Jewish ancestry."[93]

The point of the quote was to show that even Himmler thought Heydrich had Jewish blood whether it was a misconception or not.

But whether Aronson's genealogy is officially accurate or not, Heydrich's father looked like this:
https://i2.wp.com/ww2gravestone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/005.jpg?resize=300%2C178&ssl=1

Which makes you wonder.

[lei.talk]

https://i.imgur.com/u7leimb.png

https://i.imgur.com/y7nkufc.png (https://archive.org/details/eva_justin_dissertation/page/n110/mode/1up?view=theater)

[Gallop]

Proto nordid-celtic

[rothaer]

The point of the quote was to show that even Himmler thought Heydrich had Jewish blood whether it was a misconception or not.

But whether Aronson's genealogy is officially accurate or not, Heydrich's father looked like this:
https://i2.wp.com/ww2gravestone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/005.jpg?resize=300%2C178&ssl=1

Which makes you wonder.

Not me. I see ZERO reason to doubt that and the look on the picture does also not motivate that. Even as an American you are essentially a NW European (I guess) without any familiarity to what is existent in Central Europe. There's no other explanation for your comment.

You saw Adolf Eichmann?:

https://i.imgur.com/bc34jf4.jpg

I now show you both of my grandfathers in their Wehrmacht (sic!) uniforms. None of them do have any AJ ancestry as is confirmed by 23andMe results. Nevertheless you could suspect both of them not less than Heydrich's father. You will simply have to take notice of the dinarid influence in Central Europe.

https://i.imgur.com/TohNYHc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GV2l2xu.jpg

[Thorn]

Norid + West Baltid

[hecate]

norid

[Abriekman]

Yes it is so ironic that usually the biggest nazis were the most Jewish-looking.

If you look at photos of Nazi German commanders that were born in what is now Poland you could see that everyone without an exception looks like an almost pure Slav or Balt. Nazi racial theory is so funny and doesn't have any logical reasoning behind.

[Immanenz]

If you look at photos of Nazi German commanders that were born in what is now Poland you could see that everyone without an exception looks like an almost pure Slav or Balt. Nazi racial theory is so funny and doesn't have any logical reasoning behind.

No, i think you simply do not understand the logic behind it. They wanted reproduce the "Nordic" look in the future. It was not so much about what they looked at that moment.

Also, their racial anthropology is still here the most quoted/ used (even though most people dont know it i guess)- partly because of the influences Agrippa had on this forum maybe. But you still have some insecure (part-) Middle Easteners hating the "Armenoid-look" and wanting to look like the hypothetical Nordic Nazi posterboy or Viking etc that- in so far those people bought the agenda- the Nazis won the psychological war in this case. And it wont change hating on "what real Nazis looked like" (fat, ugly or small with large noses etc- whatever) because the Nazi ideology was never about "what is" really- outside from the fact that people who are drawn to power or success or simply high performers in life arent necessarily attractive or present some kind of beauty ideal.

[Melkiirs]

Not me. I see ZERO reason to doubt that and the look on the picture does also not motivate that. Even as an American you are essentially a NW European (I guess) without any familiarity to what is existent in Central Europe. There's no other explanation for your comment.

For reference Smeagol is 3/16 Ashkenazi and the rest colonial Virginia British ancestry. His viewpoint may be Anglocentric because he was raised around mostly British origin people.

[Abriekman]

No, i think you simply do not understand the logic behind it. They wanted reproduce the "Nordic" look in the future. It was not so much about what they looked at that moment.

Also, their racial anthropology is still here the most quoted/ used (even though most people dont know it i guess)- partly because of the influences Agrippa had on this forum maybe. But you still have some insecure (part-) Middle Easteners hating the "Armenoid-look" and wanting to look like the hypothetical Nordic Nazi posterboy or Viking etc that- in so far those people bought the agenda- the Nazis won the psychological war in this case. And it wont change hating on "what real Nazis looked like" (fat, ugly or small with large noses etc- whatever) because the Nazi ideology was never about "what is" really- outside from the fact that people who are drawn to power or success or simply high performers in life arent necessarily attractive or present some kind of beauty ideal.

I mean why to treat Slavs as inferior when you have great part of your commanders being the same race as them and genetically more simliar to them than to ancient Germanics?

[Veslan]

Also, their racial anthropology is still here the most quoted/ used (even though most people dont know it i guess)- partly because of the influences Agrippa had on this forum maybe. But you still have some insecure (part-) Middle Easteners hating the "Armenoid-look" and wanting to look like the hypothetical Nordic Nazi posterboy or Viking etc that- in so far those people bought the agenda- the Nazis won the psychological war in this case. And it wont change hating on "what real Nazis looked like" (fat, ugly or small with large noses etc- whatever) because the Nazi ideology was never about "what is" really- outside from the fact that people who are drawn to power or success or simply high performers in life arent necessarily attractive or present some kind of beauty ideal.

My guess is that the Nordic type is probably the favourite type of insecure non-Europeans, because it is as "hwite" as one can imagine: blond, pale-skinned, blue eyed, tall, progressive featured etc. Popular culture which often glorifies the Vikings is also contributing to this phenomenon. If you are blond and you will travel to countries like Vietnam or India, you will be basically treated like a god, and local women will be weirdly attracted to you even if you have problems with getting laid in your home country. I don't think that it's because of Nazi propaganda 80 years ago, but because of simple association of blonds with the west, and therefore with prosperity, civilization etc.

On the other hand, I think that it's no longer cool to be a Nordic in Europe anymore. Mostly because of popularity of blackpill and redpill that glorify primitive, "Cro-Magnon" Gigachad looking types, and disregard gracile ectomorph Nordics as allegedly too weak and beta looking. Darker pigmentation seems to be also glorified for whatever reason. So it seems like Nordicism lost in popularity in the Western world, but keeps increasing in popularity outside of it.

[rothaer]

No, i think you simply do not understand the logic behind it. They wanted reproduce the "Nordic" look in the future. It was not so much about what they looked at that moment.

Also, their racial anthropology is still here the most quoted/ used (even though most people dont know it i guess)- partly because of the influences Agrippa had on this forum maybe. But you still have some insecure (part-) Middle Easteners hating the "Armenoid-look" and wanting to look like the hypothetical Nordic Nazi posterboy or Viking etc that- in so far those people bought the agenda- the Nazis won the psychological war in this case. And it wont change hating on "what real Nazis looked like" (fat, ugly or small with large noses etc- whatever) because the Nazi ideology was never about "what is" really- outside from the fact that people who are drawn to power or success or simply high performers in life arent necessarily attractive or present some kind of beauty ideal.

Actually the pure political nationalsocialism is not connected to any nordicism. Many nationalsocialists (particularly Himmler and his organisations) connected to that fashion but I'm not aware of that from Hitler, Goebbels and Göring.

Also, the subraces were legally irrelevant in the Third Reich - again with exception for Himmler's organisations. Even when it was about the treatment of Jews, their actual subraces (which were not just armenid and orientalid as we know) were irrelevant.

Considering this I do not see it correct to call the popular dealing with subraces and nordicism before and during the Third Reich "Nazi ideology" when neither the nationalsocialist political party nor the majority of the important nationalsocialist politicians including Hitler had this as a political topic.

[rothaer]

I mean why to treat Slavs as inferior when you have great part of your commanders being the same race as them and genetically more simliar to them than to ancient Germanics?

Not Slavs in general were treated as inferior but Poles and Russians (including Belarusians and Ukrainians), people that had come into the position to be enemies of the Third Reich (btw. Hitler first wanted Pilsudski and the Poles on his side, but after that failed and additionally Poles massackred German civilians in September 1939 there was no way back) and that did not exactly harbour living conditions that were commonly appreciated and respected.

Other Slavs like Czechs, Slovaks, Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Bulgarians were not treated as inferior. I also think Serbs not. Most of them, not all, were just treated as enemies.

As for the bad treatment of Poles and the diverse Russians their subraces were in fact not a basis, which fits well to what you say. Also, in occupied Poland the legal treatment was not connected to subraces but to ethnicity alone - with only a few exceptions in the sphere of Himmler. Today's people do enormously much refer to that subrace topic that was existent while the nationalsocialism and thec erronously think this was a central point of nationalsocialism.

It was not. In contrast, grouping individuals along subraces and treating them differently on that basis would even contradict the nationalsocialist ideal of the Volksgemeinschaft (commonality of the (German) people). And the latter was purely ethnically defined and along these lines was also the nationalsocialist policy (exeption: Himmler's sphere).

I fully agree to that the dealing with subraces and nordicism was not fitting to what the nationalsocialism did. But the simple explanation is that such things were actually not the political content of common nationalsocialism.

[Token]

Actually the pure political nationalsocialism is not connected to any nordicism. Many nationalsocialists (particularly Himmler and his organisations) connected to that fashion but I'm not aware of that from Hitler, Goebbels and Göring.

Hitler in Mein Kampf:

A complete assimilation of all our racial elements would certainly have
brought about a homogeneous national organism; but, as has been proved
in the case of every racial mixture, it would have been less capable of
creating a civilization than by keeping intact its best original
elements. A benefit which results from the fact that there was no
all-round assimilation is to be seen in that even now we have large
groups of German Nordic people within our national organization, and
that their blood has not been mixed with the blood of other races. We
must look upon this as our most valuable treasure for the sake of the
future. During that dark period of absolute ignorance in regard to all
racial laws, when each individual was considered to be on a par with
every other, there could be no clear appreciation of the difference
between the various fundamental racial characteristics. We know to-day
that a complete assimilation of all the various elements which
constitute the national being might have resulted in giving us a larger
share of external power: but, on the other hand, the highest of human
aims would not have been attained, because the only kind of people which
fate has obviously chosen to bring about this perfection would have been
lost in such a general mixture of races which would constitute such a
racial amalgamation.

From Hitler's recorded table talks:

I shall have no peace of mind until I have succeeded in
planting a seed of Nordic blood wherever the population stand
in need of regeneration.

If at the time of the migrations, while the great racial currents
were exercising their influence, our people received so varied a
share of attributes, these latter blossomed to their full value
only because of the presence of the Nordic racial nucleus

[rothaer]

Hitler in Mein Kampf:

A complete assimilation of all our racial elements would certainly have
brought about a homogeneous national organism; but, as has been proved
in the case of every racial mixture, it would have been less capable of
creating a civilization than by keeping intact its best original
elements. A benefit which results from the fact that there was no
all-round assimilation is to be seen in that even now we have large
groups of German Nordic people within our national organization, and
that their blood has not been mixed with the blood of other races. We
must look upon this as our most valuable treasure for the sake of the
future. During that dark period of absolute ignorance in regard to all
racial laws, when each individual was considered to be on a par with
every other, there could be no clear appreciation of the difference
between the various fundamental racial characteristics. We know to-day
that a complete assimilation of all the various elements which
constitute the national being might have resulted in giving us a larger
share of external power: but, on the other hand, the highest of human
aims would not have been attained, because the only kind of people which
fate has obviously chosen to bring about this perfection would have been
lost in such a general mixture of races which would constitute such a
racial amalgamation.

From Hitler's recorded table talks:

I shall have no peace of mind until I have succeeded in
planting a seed of Nordic blood wherever the population stand
in need of regeneration.

If at the time of the migrations, while the great racial currents
were exercising their influence, our people received so varied a
share of attributes, these latter blossomed to their full value
only because of the presence of the Nordic racial nucleus

Henry Picker, Hitlers Tischgespräche, Bonn 1951, S. 312:

„2. IV. 1942 mittags

Beim Mittagessen erzählte Hitler, daß sein gestriger Flug nach Poltawa - Besprechung der Lage mit Generalfeldmarschall v. Bock, Chef der Heeresgruppe Süd - seine Rassenauffassungen leicht ins Wanken gebracht habe.
In Poltawa habe er so viele blauäugige blonde Frauen gesehen, daß er - wenn er an die ihm bei Heiratsgenehmigungen vorgelegten Bilder von Norwegerinnen oder etwa gar von Holländerinnen denke - am liebsten statt von „Aufnorden“ von der Notwendigkeit des „Aufsüdens“ unserer europäischen Nordstatten sprechen möchte.“

Translation from Henry Picker Hitler's table talks, Bonn 1951, p. 312:

"2nd of April 1942 at noon.

At lunch Hitler told us that his flight to Poltava yesterday - to discuss the situation with Field Marshal v. Bock, Chief of Army Group South - had slightly shaken his racial views.
In Poltava he had seen so many blue-eyed blonde women that - when he thought of the pictures of Norwegian women or even Dutch women presented to him for marriage licences - he would have liked to speak of the necessity of "Aufsüden" (southing up) our European northern states instead of "Aufnorden" (northing up)."

[Immanenz]

Actually the pure political nationalsocialism is not connected to any nordicism. Many nationalsocialists (particularly Himmler and his organisations) connected to that fashion but I'm not aware of that from Hitler, Goebbels and Göring.

Also, the subraces were legally irrelevant in the Third Reich - again with exception for Himmler's organisations. Even when it was about the treatment of Jews, their actual subraces (which were not just armenid and orientalid as we know) were irrelevant.

Considering this I do not see it correct to call the popular dealing with subraces and nordicism before and during the Third Reich "Nazi ideology" when neither the nationalsocialist political party nor the majority of the important nationalsocialist politicians including Hitler had this as a political topic.

I think Token has given a great quote that shows it. But obv. people in power will be focused on "execution" of political decisions especially in war times- so its not like they would be concerned about some ideological ideas 24/7. But the fact is Nazism was influenced by two ideologies- on one hand Italian futurism which bases the future societies on militarism, the ongoing progress of machines and a powerful national state, on the other hand aesthetically on "Nordicsm" which was already also artistically a thing before- you had artists in South Germany and and Austria (geographically removed from Nordics) painting those classic Nordic heimat pictures before the Nazis were in power. So the Nazis did not really invent any of its ideology on its own but rather further enhanced/refined it like the "Überrmensch vs Untermensch" thinking.

[rothaer]

I think Token has given a great quote that shows it. But obv. people in power will be focused on "execution" of political decisions especially in war times- so its not like they would be concerned about some ideological ideas 24/7. But the fact is Nazism was influenced by two ideologies- on one hand Italian futurism which bases the future societies on militarism, the ongoing progress of machines and a powerful national state, on the other hand aesthetically on "Nordicsm" which was already also artistically a thing before- you had artists in South Germany and and Austria (geographically removed from Nordics) painting those classic Nordic heimat pictures before the Nazis were in power. So the Nazis did not really invent any of its ideology on its own but rather further enhanced/refined it like the "Überrmensch vs Untermensch" thinking.

Fully greed to your take with the remark that from 1933 - 1939 the nationalsocialism was in full power without wartime and nothing was done in respect to subraces and I think the main difference was consequenceless theoreticising on one hand and being in real power on the other hand. This also applied to a number of socialist aims in the NSDAP party program that were dropped by Hitler like participation of workers in companies.

Also, the nationalsocialism was rather "young" and not monolithic in views. F. i., while the common nationalsocialism promoted very orderly social conditions, Himmler promoted out-of-wedlock breedings by SS men.

And after you refer to the take on art: it was for quite a while not clear what would be favoured by the nationalsocialism, f. i. impressionism or expressionism. Ironically, eventually the art direction of the active nationalsocialist Emil Nolde (expressionism) was rejected in favor for the art direction much represented by the Jew Max Liebermann (impressionism, although having a lot of non-Jewish followers like Ludwig Dettmann as well, of course).

Translation from the German Wikipedia article on Nolde:

At the beginning of the National Socialist era, some high-ranking functionaries of the National Socialist regime appreciated his art and his attitude to art policy. For example, Joseph Goebbels and Albert Speer were initially supporters of Nolde, and in 1933 the National Socialist Students' Association organised an exhibition of his works. The larger part of the National Socialist leadership, on the other hand, tried to discriminate against Nolde artistically and economically at an early stage - this included Alfred Rosenberg and Adolf Hitler himself. For example, his paintings Life of Christ were shown in the exhibition "Degenerate Art" in 1937. Further paintings were confiscated and forcibly sold in subsequent actions. Nolde apparently did not want to admit this at first and seemed surprised when his works were defamed as "degenerate art". He felt misunderstood and believed in mistakes made by subordinate persons and departments. He did not distance himself from National Socialist cultural policy, but tried to convince the National Socialists that he had always thought and lived in accordance with the movement's theses and had also expressed himself in this way.[23] For example, Nolde wrote in a letter to Goebbels on 2 July 1938 that he saw himself "as almost the only German artist in the open struggle against the alienation of German art", and pointed out that he had become a member of the NSDAP Nordschleswig immediately after its founding.[24]

[Russki]

Henry Picker, Hitlers Tischgespräche, Bonn 1951, S. 312:

„2. IV. 1942 mittags

Beim Mittagessen erzählte Hitler, daß sein gestriger Flug nach Poltawa - Besprechung der Lage mit Generalfeldmarschall v. Bock, Chef der Heeresgruppe Süd - seine Rassenauffassungen leicht ins Wanken gebracht habe.
In Poltawa habe er so viele blauäugige blonde Frauen gesehen, daß er - wenn er an die ihm bei Heiratsgenehmigungen vorgelegten Bilder von Norwegerinnen oder etwa gar von Holländerinnen denke - am liebsten statt von „Aufnorden“ von der Notwendigkeit des „Aufsüdens“ unserer europäischen Nordstatten sprechen möchte.“

Translation from Henry Picker Hitler's table talks, Bonn 1951, p. 312:

"2nd of April 1942 at noon.

At lunch Hitler told us that his flight to Poltava yesterday - to discuss the situation with Field Marshal v. Bock, Chief of Army Group South - had slightly shaken his racial views.
In Poltava he had seen so many blue-eyed blonde women that - when he thought of the pictures of Norwegian women or even Dutch women presented to him for marriage licences - he would have liked to speak of the necessity of "Aufsüden" (southing up) our European northern states instead of "Aufnorden" (northing up)."


There are parts of Eastern/Northeastern Ukraine which are more shifted towards Finns/Estonians than their direct Northern neighbor (Belarus). Those parts of Ukraine have a Finnic input in them.


G25

https://sun9-79.userapi.com/impg/u9Cmgg1so1K91ueUjHVgHGBG1aPMShoI8hgjHw/uZqdjFZexxA.jpg?size=270x180&quality=95&sign=8ef6e4db5f2783764a9968c8661afb43&type=album


K36

https://sun9-54.userapi.com/impg/U5jrFyv4qFszunY7K9YXYipEsT7znTe9ImpNWg/gPBZYwA8mo4.jpg?size=270x200&quality=95&sign=84297029408ff154588d679cf190fca7&type=album


I do not know if Poltava is one of those parts since no such averages exist in G25 or K36, but it is possible.

[Token]

I think Token has given a great quote that shows it. But obv. people in power will be focused on "execution" of political decisions especially in war times- so its not like they would be concerned about some ideological ideas 24/7. But the fact is Nazism was influenced by two ideologies- on one hand Italian futurism which bases the future societies on militarism, the ongoing progress of machines and a powerful national state, on the other hand aesthetically on "Nordicsm" which was already also artistically a thing before- you had artists in South Germany and and Austria (geographically removed from Nordics) painting those classic Nordic heimat pictures before the Nazis were in power. So the Nazis did not really invent any of its ideology on its own but rather further enhanced/refined it like the "Überrmensch vs Untermensch" thinking.

It is also good to remember that Nordicism was quite mainstream in the first half of the 20th century. It was as popular in the United States as in Germany. Heck, even in freakin' Brazil there were influential Nordicist thinkers at the time.

[andrzej]

Translation from Henry Picker Hitler's table talks, Bonn 1951, p. 312:

"2nd of April 1942 at noon.

At lunch Hitler told us that his flight to Poltava yesterday - to discuss the situation with Field Marshal v. Bock, Chief of Army Group South - had slightly shaken his racial views.
In Poltava he had seen so many blue-eyed blonde women that - when he thought of the pictures of Norwegian women or even Dutch women presented to him for marriage licences - he would have liked to speak of the necessity of "Aufsüden" (southing up) our European northern states instead of "Aufnorden" (northing up)."


There are parts of Eastern/Northeastern Ukraine which are more shifted towards Finns/Estonians than their direct Northern neighbor (Belarus). Those parts of Ukraine have a Finnic input in them.


G25

https://sun9-79.userapi.com/impg/u9Cmgg1so1K91ueUjHVgHGBG1aPMShoI8hgjHw/uZqdjFZexxA.jpg?size=270x180&quality=95&sign=8ef6e4db5f2783764a9968c8661afb43&type=album


K36

https://sun9-54.userapi.com/impg/U5jrFyv4qFszunY7K9YXYipEsT7znTe9ImpNWg/gPBZYwA8mo4.jpg?size=270x200&quality=95&sign=84297029408ff154588d679cf190fca7&type=album


I do not know if Poltava is one of those parts since no such averages exist in G25 or K36, but it is possible.
These are some people from Poltava...

https://okrain.net.ua/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/photo_2032.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/854605404.jpg
https://www.telegraf.in.ua/uploads/posts/2012-04/1333902919_brest.jpg
https://scontent.fyto1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/182503882_255233529720646_953177339495283986_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=3whuxAnmfiEAX_u8T08&_nc_ht=scontent.fyto1-2.fna&oh=00_AfCk_rCioeAx9tMHSH_iJ4TCHWfyAElcKHdssZg2g6gT JQ&oe=64B69439
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/208859782.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/257837225.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/511082841.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/761754070.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/914660870.jpg
https://dnepr-hokkey.at.ua/2015-16/kremenchug.jpg
https://www.telegraf.in.ua/uploads/posts/2012-04/1333897843_vodokanal-ekoenergo.jpg
https://www.telegraf.in.ua/uploads/posts/2012-04/1333898565_sharlis.jpg
https://www.telegraf.in.ua/uploads/posts/2012-04/1333902912_yuvitek.jpg
https://www.telegraf.in.ua/uploads/posts/2012-04/1333905295_lukasik.jpg

https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/367632080.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/917917912.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/908263966.jpg
https://stfk-rb.ru/upload/resize_cache/iblock/fdd/1170_900_1/zQSLnR1vlJs.jpg
https://scontent.fyto1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/72704589_682263068922248_5444130450819776512_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=R9bkkojtyg0AX-O7sO_&_nc_ht=scontent.fyto1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAmE_tkQNh8KBXxd3nW_OnlCwcsaiBBsBbzlT7ez-7i3w&oe=64B6C566
https://scontent.fyto1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/351839109_201024076220477_1984407041839520410_n.jp g?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=t3qysTOFtg4AX8L8cK5&_nc_ht=scontent.fyto1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAfgrVsyAiSz8A9qBLo1jAh4yqvb0PAglOBnZn8WBzy Xg&oe=6493A6C4
https://scontent.fyto1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/351333641_669564381671588_7459605644685904683_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=8g0_m56jYW0AX9mNOTv&_nc_ht=scontent.fyto1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDJGV4YUJqbrGbS3T4QicbU2VpW1mzAIIUfwuI0oI-Lsg&oe=6493BA25
https://www.telegraf.in.ua/uploads/posts/2017-12/1512894574_geologya-2.jpg
https://kolos-fc.ucoz.ru/_ph/38/76788287.jpg
https://go-afk.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/a2-1024x766.jpg

Also the Nazis viewed all Slavs as inferior. However, they also played a lot calculated games against Eastern neighbours. So I would take their more "positive" views of Slovaks, Bosniaks, Romanians, or Bulgarians with a grain of salt. These are people who claimed Crimean Tatars are Aryan and their Slavic neighbours are not. There was no logic to their race science at all.