The ethnic identity battle in America..

[Barreldriver]

When I look at America, I see a hodgepodge of European admixture, and I wonder why are we wandering around aimlessly without a uniform culture and ethnic identity representative of our European heritage, this question came to mind when I began some reading on a group called the Norse-Gaels:

Norse-Gaels
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The Norse-Gaels were a people who dominated much of the Irish Sea region and western Scotland for a large part of the Middle Ages, who were of Gaelic origin with some Scandinavia admixture, and as a whole exhibited a great deal of Gaelic and Norse cultural syncretism. Other modern terms used include Scoto-Norse, Hiberno-Norse and Foreign Gaels.

The Norse-Gaels originated in Viking colonies of Ireland and Scotland who became subject to the process of Gaelicization, whereby starting as early as the ninth century, most intermarried with native Gaels (except for the Norse who settled in Cumbria) and adopted the Gaelic language as well as many other Gaelic customs.[citation needed] Many left their original worship of Norse gods and converted to Christianity, and this contributed to the Gaelicization. Gaelicized Scandinavians dominated the Irish Sea region until the Norman era of the twelfth century, founding long-lasting kingdoms, such as the Kingdoms of Man, Argyll, Dublin, Galloway as well as taking control of the Norse colony at York. The Lords of the Isles, a Lordship which lasted until the sixteenth century, as well as many other Gaelic rulers of Scotland and Ireland, traced their descent from Norse-Gaels. The Norse-Gaels settlement in England was concentrated in the North West.


Now, these people of mixed Gaelic and Norse heritage were able to forge an identity a culture and legacy, why can we modern Americans not?

I look at regions of America around the Appalachian mountains and the Cumberland Gap and I see something of similar design, a culture that has roots in mixed Scots-Irish and English heritage with some German influence, but that is one small region in the entirety that is the United States of America. I also see the Cajuns, the Amish, and Pennsylvania Dutch, etc... however these are small groups in whole, and not the common American.

When I see the common American I see a robot, one without a soul, a life, and heritage. Why is it that the common American, when surrounded by these smaller cultural isolates, is unable to be inspired and forge a culture or identity of similar nature? or choose to identify with one(for example families around where I was raised in the Cumberland Gap who forsook the traditions of their forefathers for the sake of fitting in with the blan norm)

Hell, even I who has been a part of Cumberland Gap culture has had only a taste of what it originally was, this in fact due to the above mentioned process, the destruction of the culture for the sake of being an industrial robot. Despite my efforts to live with what I have been raised with, and to expand upon the holes left by the destructive process, have been futile as of late because there simply are not enough in America who are willing to do so. My culture is only a fraction of what it once was and it is sad to say the very least, but what can one do? Just make do with what has been left and try to preserve it.

I am curious as to what we can do to preserve these cultures and keep them growing instead of declining in the fashion that they are today, and as to why Americans as a whole seem to be inept when it comes to this task.


Discuss :D

[Gooding]

We can refuse to conform. We can remember and celebrate our cultural heritage.We can contribute to the next generation by having wives and children of the same stock as ourselves.We can seperate ourselves as much as we can from outsiders of racially foreign backgrounds.We can instill in our children pride in their heritage and a desire to breed exclusively with their own people and ensure our grandchildren learn those same values.Other than armed rebellion, those remain our best methods for preserving our own.

[Barreldriver]

We can refuse to conform. We can remember and celebrate our cultural heritage.We can contribute to the next generation by having wives and children of the same stock as ourselves.We can seperate ourselves as much as we can from outsiders of racially foreign backgrounds.We can instill in our children pride in their heritage and a desire to breed exclusively with their own people and ensure our grandchildren learn those same values.Other than armed rebellion, those remain our best methods for preserving our own.

From the trend of today I see armed rebellion being very possible in the near future if we can organize properly. My father mentioned that he heard about a new Continental Congress being formed, and the state sovereignty movement is inspiring to say the least.

[Gooding]

That's interesting..are Continental Congress cells being formed in every state?Where could I find more information? If we're forced to armed rebellion, I would definitely choose my nation over the current government. By the gods of my tribe, we may yet be able to preserve and strengthen our cultures here.

[Maelstrom]

I was reading somewhere that approximately a third of so called White Americans have recent Negro ancestry. Perhaps that's why it's hard to establish an ethnic identity? :rolleyes:

[Gooding]

Perhaps this third could join their black kindred while we make up the loss by importing more Euros to strengthen our gene pool!:D

[Electronic God-Man]

I was reading somewhere that approximately a third of so called White Americans have recent Negro ancestry. Perhaps that's why it's hard to establish an ethnic identity? :rolleyes:

1. You are reading too much leftist garbage, and taking it too seriously.

2. Have you ever seen an American? Did they look like they had African ancestry? Especially "recent" African ancestry?

[Barreldriver]

I was reading somewhere that approximately a third of so called White Americans have recent Negro ancestry. Perhaps that's why it's hard to establish an ethnic identity? :rolleyes:

That's over estimated, the genetic studies that I've observed via links from Anthroforum say about 20% of the American "White" population has negro ancestry of varying degrees that typically are less than a percent. It's largely dependent on the individual. I'd say the greater majority of them are less than a percent, just how I have .01% American indian, it's nothing that should influence your identity, and it definitely shouldn't influence your culture, if everyone started identifying by small percentages like the previously mentioned .01% and such then everyone would overlap into so much that it would be impossible to identify anyone.

[Barreldriver]

1. You are reading too much leftist garbage, and taking it too seriously.

2. Have you ever seen an American? Did they look like they had African ancestry? Especially "recent" African ancestry?

Too true.

[Maelstrom]

1. You are reading too much leftist garbage, and taking it too seriously.

Perhaps.



2. Have you ever seen an American? Did they look like they had African ancestry? Especially "recent" African ancestry?

Yeah, more than I could possibly count. I've worked in the tourism industry and Americans constitute one of the largest groups of people who travel here.

Several Americans have appeared suspicious to me, especially one who I went to school with. I have also seen photos on other forums which show someone with 1/8 Black ancestry. It appears quite hard to detect, even at 1/8th.

[Electronic God-Man]

Yeah, more than I could possibly count. I've worked in the tourism industry and Americans constitute one of the largest groups of people who travel here.

Several Americans have appeared suspicious to me, especially one who I went to school with. I have also seen photos on other forums which show someone with 1/8 Black ancestry. It appears quite hard to detect, even at 1/8th.

Did these people actually claim to being "white". I have seen Octoroons and they look like...Octoroons. At the very best, they could pass for really Negroid looking Italians.

Another thing to point out is that any test that claims that some percentage of "white" Americans have less than 1% of African DNA could be explained by the fact that we have a very large number of Mediterranean peoples in the US who are legally defined as "white". Italians / Sicilians / Greeks / Spaniards / Lebanese / Syrians / Egyptians / Algerians / Morroccans / etc. are all "white" by the legal definition that is currently in place.

[Gooding]

Perhaps.




Yeah, more than I could possibly count. I've worked in the tourism industry and Americans constitute one of the largest groups of people who travel here.

Several Americans have appeared suspicious to me, especially one who I went to school with. I have also seen photos on other forums which show someone with 1/8 Black ancestry. It appears quite hard to detect, even at 1/8th.


Yeah, we call those of 1/8 Negro ancestry Octoroons.Way back, octoroon and quadroon(25% Negro) women were highly prized in New Orleans as placees.That was a nice word for essentially a kept woman or nigger whore.Many octoroons could and did pass in white American society as white themselves and the richer their families were, the more likely they were to pass.The quadroons, mulattoes(halflings), griffes(3/4 Black,1/4 White) and Congos ( full African) were easier to spot and to avoid.LOL, when I learned that my great grandmother was a Francophone from New Orleans, I scoured her family tree looking for African admixture (my grandmother did have a flat sort of nose, but she also had polio and there was some cousin to cousin marriage) in palm sweating fear, but instead I found Occitanian,German, Swiss, and Cajun mix on her mother's side and English, Scottish, German and Swiss on her father's. I was relieved, to say the least.:thumb001:

[Rainraven]

I think America is just too big and mixed to create an identity of it's own. Even if you take those with European heritage who wish to preserve it, you are mixing a whole continents culture. Is it possible to have a group all wishing to preserve there own individualism? And could they cooperate?

Here in New Zealand there is very little celebration of our European roots. The only culture deemed worth exhibiting is Maori. Hell, they even want to change the flag because people don't think the Union Jack expresses our country.

I believe the main problem is that there is not enough 'brotherhood' between colonials of a European background. We don't band together and create a culture. Instead we allow ourselves to become assimilated.

[Æmeric]

I was reading somewhere that approximately a third of so called White Americans have recent Negro ancestry. Perhaps that's why it's hard to establish an ethnic identity? :rolleyes:Those estimates were made in the 50s - during the fight to force integration on America - and were based on sloppy statistics. It was based on how many Negroes "passed" into the White population on an annual basis.


As of the 2000 US census, one analyst has estimated that between 35,000 and 50,000 young adults who previously were identified by their parents as black, annually switch to identifying as white or Hispanic (Hispanic does not preclude identifying as black.) However, the statistical extrapolations are not conclusive.

There are several ways to measure such changes. The most straightforward is to ask high numbers of people how they "racially" self-identify, repeat the question every few years, and then count how many changed their answer from "Black" to something else. The Departments of Labor and of Health and Human Services do precisely this (along with many other questions) in longitudinal studies meant to track life-long earnings and health, respectively, of numerous Americans. For example, the Department of Labor's NLS79 National Longitudinal Survey has interviewed 12,686 young men and women yearly since 1979 to measure their career progress. Each year they are asked the same hundred or so questions. Between 1979 (when they were 14 to 22 years old) and 1998, 1.87 percent of those who had originally answered "Black," switched to answering the interviewer's "race" question with either "White," "I don't know," or "other." This comes to 0.098 percent per year. Extrapolated to the 2000 census Black population of 36 million, this comes to about 35,000 individuals per year. With the statistical margin of error, the true figure could be as low as zero.


When this estimate was made, the Negro population in the US was approximately 36 million. So allegedly approximately 1/1000 of all Negroes pass every year. But multiply that by 70-years - the typical lifespan of a Negro in the US - and that would come out to roughly 7% of US Negroes passing for White! There is no way 7% of US Negroes could fool people into thinking they are White.


A third approach is to use the rate found in Philadelphia at which European-looking children are born into the black community (one out of every 500). This could be extrapolated to the national black yearly cohort.[3] This yields about 72,000 individuals per year as of census 2000. Most of these, of course, might choose not to switch. In addition, the margin of statistical error could bring this figure down to zero, or drive that number up even higher. Given the fact that numerous people in the black community of Philadelphia and other cities have some European ancestors, whose characteristics may become physically apparent in various generations, this seems a flawed exercise. This is from Wiki but copied from sociological research done to "proof" the rate of passing into the White population. But read carefully: Approximately 1 out of 500 children born to Negroes are European looking, allegedly. This estimate is from the early 1990s when the US Negro population was 34-35 million. 72,000 is 1/500 of the US Negro population at that time. But the paper this is based on is either intentionally misleading or Ph.D.s from American universities are worthless. It takes what would be a onetime event & turns it into an annual event. Instead of 72,000 Negroes living as White we have 72,000 passing each year. Unless those European looking Negroes have to keep passing over & over because the are continually found out. 72,000 would be 12% to 15% of the annual number of Negroes born in the US every year. 12% to 15% passing as White! Ridiculous.

Another "proof" of passing in the number of Negro males who disappear from the census, over 2 million. "They must have passed over to the White population", claim the lefty demographers. But then would'n the Whites have an abnormally higher number of males? It doesn't compute. Black males are very likely to die younger then any other segment of the population or to go uncounted because the have no permanent address or they live on the streets.


Another approach is to start with the 0.7 percent African admixture found in the white U.S. population today. Compared to other New World nations, the United States has more distinct populations genetically: one of mostly African ancestry, the other overwhelmingly European. All other New World nations that imported African slaves have unimodal Afro-European genetic admixture scatter diagrams.



Genetic testing on Europeans concerning sub-Saharan admixture:


In a study by Pereira et al. 2005,[5] sub-Saharan mtDNA L haplogroups were reported at rates of 5.85% in the Portuguese (including 11.38% in Southern Portugal), 2.86% in Sardinians, 2.38% in Albanians, 2% in Finns, 1.61% in Spaniards (including 3.26% in Galicia), 1% in the British, 0.94% in Sicilians and 0.62% in a German-Danish sample.

Gonzalez et al. 2003[6] found L markers at rates of 8.6% in Southern Portugal (Alentejo and Algarve), 4.3% in Central Portugal, 2.9% in Spain (Galicia), 2.2% in Northern Portugal, 1.4% in France, 0.7% in Northern Germany, 0.4% in England and 0.1% in Scotland.....



Y-DNA
For the reasons outlined above, sub-Saharan Y-DNA markers are much less common in Europe. The small presence of the Haplogroups E(xE3b) (i.e. clades of E other than E3b) and Haplogroup A in Europe is almost exclusively attributable to the slave trade, as these haplogroups are characteristic of western, central and southern Africans and are barely observed elsewhere.[8] The haplotypes have been detected in Portugal (less than 3%), the Arbëreshë (2.9%), France (2.5% - in a very small sample), Germany (2%), Sardinia (1.6%), Calabria (1.3%), Austria (0.78%), Italy (0.45%), Spain (0.42%) and Greece (0.27%).



.7% for White Americans falls in between the 1% found for the British in one study & .4% found for the English in another. And when did this admixture in Europeans accure? Was it during the West African slave trade 15th-19th centuries or was something that came out of Africa 50,000 years ago?


Two-thirds of white Americans have no detectable African ancestry, chiefly because of the very high numbers of immigrants who arrived from the mid-19th century on. Also, the white population in the North was greater than that in the South, whereas the numbers of slaves were fewer. Some argue that one-third of white Americans do have detectable African DNA (averaging 2.3 percent). Bias against Southerners who created the colorline in the South. Approximately 1/4 of White Americans are of "ethnic" european stock.... Jewish, Italian & other Med, Slavic. The Italians in the US are overwhelmingly of Sicilian & South Italian heritage. It would seem that late 19th & early 20th century immigrants from europe would have raised the average Negro percentage in the White American population. And two more things; Were the samples for this study taken from a true cross section of the White American population or was it concentrated on the urban populations of the Northeast? And did it include "White Hispanics"? If it did that would really skew the results.



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kC5MT2r5U8s/RrYouXImtMI/AAAAAAAABgA/cz7KKXggoNg/s320/queen01_lonette+mckee+and+halle.jpg

Several years ago American TV aired a miniseries in which the viewers were suppose to believe that the 2 Mulatto/Quadroon women above successfully fooled people into thinking the were White.:rolleyes2: It was just part of the multiracial propaganda, the same nonsense that says White Americans have Negro ancestry.






Yeah, more than I could possibly count. I've worked in the tourism industry and Americans constitute one of the largest groups of people who travel here.

Several Americans have appeared suspicious to me, especially one who I went to school with. I have also seen photos on other forums which show someone with 1/8 Black ancestry. It appears quite hard to detect, even at 1/8th.
Photos shown on other forums should not be taken as proof that the poster knows what he is talking about. Some of those dodgy Americans you encountered could have been Jewish or Italian. Or even Cuban or Puerto Rican. Just how much experience do you personally have with US Negroes. Puerto Ricans, many of whom are only Quadroons would not be able to pass as White in most of the US, excepting certain areas of New Jersey or Long Island with large Medish populations.

[Allenson]

I was reading somewhere that approximately a third of so called White Americans have recent Negro ancestry. Perhaps that's why it's hard to establish an ethnic identity? :rolleyes:

LOL--rubbish, nonsense, foolishness, whatever we'd like to call it. :rolleyes:

Unless we're talking about, as others have mentioned, the "white" North African, Middle Eastern, Puerto Rican, Mexican & Cuban Americans, that is.

Just curious--what's your source for this figure?

I'd have to dig around and find it--but one genetic study I read a few years back reported fewer sub-Saharan markers in white Americans than they did in certain European populations! :eek:

[Loyalist]

I was reading somewhere that approximately a third of so called White Americans have recent Negro ancestry. Perhaps that's why it's hard to establish an ethnic identity? :rolleyes:

Aren't you always the one whining about sources? On that note, however, what's the proportion of Maori blood in the average white New Zealander?

http://i43.tinypic.com/2h6zuyp.jpg

;)

[Barreldriver]

I have thought of something in regards to myself personally:

Despite the other European lineages within my bloodline none has made more of an impact on my way of life, my thought process, and self-identity then my English blood and secondly my Northern Irish blood. Reason being the fact that much of that blood was introduced via 19th Century immigration, so things were recent, families still remembered "home over across the sea", and I've always been of the state of mind that "majority rules" to a reasonable extent, and Anglo and Northern Irish composes an overwhelming majority of my ancestry.

I'm thinking that if other American's were to take a similar mindset then that would be for the best, just go with what the majority of your blood is.