I2525 Danube Bulgar on G25

[axlredneck]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Giudjenov_Kubrat_and_his_sons.jpg

I2525, Danube Bulgar

Y-DNA: Q-YP789 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP789/) / Q-YP789 (https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/Q-YP789/tree)
mtDNA: U5a1b1c (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U5a1b1c/)
Period: First Bulgarian Empire
Age: c.940 CE (889-989 calCE)
Region: Samovodene, Veliko Tarnovo

From the Supplementary Text:

I2525/S1-grave 1 (petrous bone), genetically and anthropologically male. Young adult between 17-22 years old found in flexed position, oriented SE - NW. He lay on his left side, hands folded near his face. Occlusal surface of his upper and lower first molars was heavily worn probably due to hard food consumption. His bones were large and strongly developed. His height was calculated 167.4 cm. Above his left eyebrow, a 1.5 cm healed cut mark was observed (by Alpaslan-Roodenberg).

[axlredneck]

Here, I've subtracted the Bulgar ancestry and separated the minor African noise.


https://i.ibb.co/9vgMvPQ/20230703-185635.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/ZzGfhyj/20230703-185349.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/xmBsTsq/20230703-185417.jpg



BGR_Samovodene_MA,0.108132,0.070072,0.042992,0.010 659,0.007694,-0.001673,0.00799,0.003461,-0.003886,0.00164,-0.002436,0,0.003568,0.007844,-0.005972,-0.012463,-0.014864,0.001774,0.001885,0.007504,-0.013102,0.001113,0,0.002771,-0.001796
Bulgar,0.0875794,-0.1186851,0.0703279,0.0462278,-0.0457662,0.0004012,0.0045986,0.0057238,-0.0131025,-0.0242801,-0.0069555,-0.0011277,0.0023117,-0.0157495,0.0150784,0.0012691,-0.0115338,0.0004507,0.0022112,0.0068453,-0.0173337,0.0021481,-0.0009199,0.004288,-0.0040285
Balkan,0.1236314,0.1418216,0.0307964,0.0039445,0.0 273594,-0.0000452,0.0056086,0.0050026,0.0016152,0.003348,0 .0011806,0.0007428,0.0024229,0.0127159,-0.0118353,-0.0076719,-0.003111,0.0000644,0.0024686,0.0001933,-0.0033669,0.0017256,0.001126,-0.0023938,-0.0000519
Noise,-6.362768318,-6.481103617,2.343521138,-3.852380731,-1.356640343,-1.739445191,2.639508837,-1.716897641,-1.820159541,5.202372724,-1.581394392,-0.274432199,1.175323144,2.257165889,-0.876960296,-7.034022115,-9.650411202,1.613089392,-0.516781147,5.647893522,-6.246766619,-0.716499146,-0.613399247,3.491955933,-0.750001646

[Kaspias]

Sagly is probably the Proto-Turkic base before they all spread around. For the "Balkan", is the Deliorman component you are using the Turkish ancestor removed from the Turk_Deliorman?

[axlredneck]

Sagly is probably the Proto-Turkic base before they all spread around. For the "Balkan", is the Deliorman component you are using the Turkish ancestor removed from the Turk_Deliorman?

Aye!

[axlredneck]

...

Can you make a PCA with the coordinates, adding other relevant ancient and modern pops?

[axlredneck]

For comparison, here are two individuals from the Second Bulgarian Empire era, both excavated from Veliko Tarnovo, the empire's capital.

https://i.ibb.co/MfcpP69/20230715-162904.jpg

[Demirkazık]

Target: Demirkazık_scaled
Distance: 2.3137% / 0.02313692
32.4 Bulgar
32.4 Turkey_SoutheastByzantine
17.0 Turkey_WestByzantine
13.4 Turkey_Byzantine
4.8 Turkey_Medieval

[axlredneck]

Average of 2 Bulgars ie. DA142 and I2525

https://i.ibb.co/3Cznzg4/20230728-182130.jpg

[Dušan]

I got a bit of sample BGR_Samovodene_MA, when put it among modern populations.


Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 1.9206% / 0.01920610
37.4 Russian_Smolensk
36.2 Greek_Macedonia
10.4 Ukrainian_Sumy
9.8 Sardinian
4.2 Lithuanian_VZ
1.2 BGR_Samovodene_MA
0.6 Georgian_Megr
0.2 Kosipe

[axlredneck]

Facial reconstruction of a Volga Bulgar
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPmYW_8WYAc0rax?format=jpg&name=900x900

[axlredneck]

Q-YP832 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP832/)
Origin: Mesolithic Altai HGs

Q-YP832>YP789 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP789/)
Oldest specimens: BRE004 & BRE011
Culture: Pazyryk
Region: Berel, Kazakhstan
Found in multiple Avars.

https://i.ibb.co/G0RxYNZ/20230802-131918.jpg

[axlredneck]

https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-FTB48733/

A lineage that certainly came with the Bulgars to modern Bulgaria; of Caucasus origin, though!

MRCA is 800 CE, according to YFull.

[axlredneck]

The cousins of Danube Bulgars: Volga Ural Bulgars/Magyars

Bashkirs on G25 (ancestry subtraction) (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?376569-Bashkirs-on-G25-(ancestry-subtraction))
Hungarian Conquerors on G25 (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?375813-Hungarian-Conquerors-on-G25)

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6s9eU5PAPWm5Fu9LGtNqvFAKi06Xtc-ybCg&usqp=CAU

[Voskos]

Distance to:
0.06681102 Greece_Delphi_IA
0.07431994 Balkan
0.07993188 Greece_Koufonisi_Cycladic_EBA.SG
0.09111244 Armenia_Achaemenid_Hellenistic
0.10203548 Iran_GanjDareh_Historic
0.11750335 BGR_Samovodene_MA
0.14451301 Jordan_PPNB
0.30676192 Bulgar
19.77081629 Noise

[DomitiusAurelian]

Target: Domitius_scaled
Distance: 1.7244% / 0.01724449
69.0 Anatolian
26.6 Bulgar
4.4 Balkan

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/878_NX_oUmM?si=aCawDmvftT7Z01qs

[zarni0]

There is a bit of a problem here though. Modern bulgarians have the lowest east asian admixture out of any sampled ethnicity in europe.
The bulgars of the 7th century were said to have been numerous when they invaded the Danube delta and below the danube. They effectively beat the full roman army at the time and continued on beating them handily in the next 100 years at the very least.
How does such a numerous people just dissolve and their supposed east-asian admixture simply disappear in their descendants?
There is a problem here obviously and most likely they did not die out and miraculously refrain from procreating.

[celticdragongod]

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.07935217 Balkan
0.10125572 BGR_Samovodene_MA
0.27568681 Bulgar
19.78071191 Noise

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 7.6873% / 0.07687296
93.0 Balkan
7.0 Bulgar

[djipon]

A Bulgarian from South-East Bulgaria here! :thumb001:

Target: djipon_scaled
Distance: 2.4423% / 0.02442271
98.0 Balkan
2.0 Bulgar

Distance to: djipon_scaled
0.02508550 Balkan
0.07954618 BGR_Samovodene_MA
0.27977358 Bulgar
19.77444998 Noise

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/WBW-o7KDneE