Classify real British people from northern Ireland

[Oliver109]

These are the most British of the British in terms of culture, patriotism and in some cases bloodline, to me they closely resemble Scots, northern English and some midland English, notice how they are less alpinised than many Irish groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9XT9xJPOfw

[Grace O'Malley]

These are the most British of the British in terms of culture, patriotism and in some cases bloodline, to me they closely resemble Scots, northern English and some midland English, notice how they are less alpinised than many Irish groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9XT9xJPOfw

I wasn't aware alpinisation was a big thing in the Irish.

Players below from Limerick. Anyway most Irish aren't alpines.

https://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF1355/2436226.jpg

[omidjahan]

Mostly anglo-saxon

[Oliver109]

I wasn't aware alpinisation was a big thing in the Irish.

Players below from Limerick. Anyway most Irish aren't alpines.

https://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF1355/2436226.jpg

Athletes tend to have different phenotypes to regular people, Irish have a higher cepalhic index than the British, Coon spoke of the proddies as having longer narrower heads. Here are girls from Sligo, some appear alpinised
https://lirp.cdn-website.com/db5dc70f/dms3rep/multi/opt/Girls+active+in+sligo+with+Elaine+Byrne++Mar+5-da7f8159-960w.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

Athletes tend to have different phenotypes to regular people, Irish have a higher cepalhic index than the British, Coon spoke of the proddies as having longer narrower heads. Here are girls from Sligo, some appear alpinised
https://lirp.cdn-website.com/db5dc70f/dms3rep/multi/opt/Girls+active+in+sligo+with+Elaine+Byrne++Mar+5-da7f8159-960w.jpg

They are young girls. You should really show adult groups as young people don't have their features formed yet. Anyway these are also school kids from Sligo.

https://i.imgur.com/kmLTuEo.png

https://i.imgur.com/4xVLakp.png

https://i.imgur.com/WmTcWxd.png

If you compare them with people from Northern Ireland they aren't that different.

[Oliver109]

They are young girls. You should really show adult groups as young people don't have their features formed yet. Anyway these are also school kids from Sligo.

http://www.sligogrammarschool.org/home/all-5th-16-17-1/

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=2060150954278897&set=pcb.2060151204278872

http://www.sligogrammarschool.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/All-prefects-1617-1-644x1024.jpg

If you compare them with people from Northern Ireland they aren't that different.

Sligo is more or less northern Ireland, unfortunately Irish women in their 20s tend to wear heavy makeup and hair dye that alters their look unlike women in southeast England or Europe, anyway the girls in the photo look about 15 or 16 so they are fairly similar to 18 year olds physically.

[Grace O'Malley]

Sligo is more or less northern Ireland, unfortunately Irish women in their 20s tend to wear heavy makeup and hair dye that alters their look unlike women in southeast England or Europe, anyway the girls in the photo look about 15 or 16 so they are fairly similar to 18 year olds physically.

A lot don't wear heavy makeup and hair dye and I don't know what you mean by "unlike women in Southeast England or Europe". Irish women don't wear more makeup or dye their hair more than those areas. :). Your talking a bit of rubbish there. People I post are GAA players (and no they aren't professional athletes). GAA is played by ordinary people who have full time jobs, go to school etc. Sligo isn't more or less Northern Ireland. My Grandmother was from Sligo. It borders Mayo, Leitrim and Roscommon.

You can find plenty of photos of GAA female players without makeup and hair dyed. You're very selective in the types of people you post depending on the populations.

[Oliver109]

A lot don't wear heavy makeup and hair dye and I don't know what you mean by "unlike women in Southeast England or Europe". Irish women don't wear more makeup or dye their hair more than those areas. :). Your talking a bit of rubbish there. People I post are GAA players (and no they aren't professional athletes). GAA is played by ordinary people who have full time jobs, go to school etc. Sligo isn't more or less Northern Ireland. My Grandmother was from Sligo. It borders Mayo, Leitrim and Roscommon.

You can find plenty of photos of GAA female players without makeup and hair dyed. You're very selective in the types of people you post depending on the populations.

I think this is more typical in Ireland and northern Britain and certainly round London and Surrey natural looks are preferred:
https://focus.sundayworld.com/thumbor/pokq8YqvkOaKtRe4W8zrSlsDkrw=/1280x960/smart/prod-mh-ireland/00f0f878-de30-11ec-8a52-0257d57b707f.JPG

As i said athletes are not that typical of the general population because they are selected more for certain physical attributes, perhaps local university pics may be better though i am not sure about how many foreign students there are.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Oliver has an odd obsession with Alpines. I would love to be a fly on the wall to watch Oliver for a day. I suspect peak autism.

[Grace O'Malley]

I think this is more typical in Ireland and northern Britain and certainly round London and Surrey natural looks are preferred:
https://focus.sundayworld.com/thumbor/pokq8YqvkOaKtRe4W8zrSlsDkrw=/1280x960/smart/prod-mh-ireland/00f0f878-de30-11ec-8a52-0257d57b707f.JPG

As i said athletes are not that typical of the general population because they are selected more for certain physical attributes, perhaps local university pics may be better though i am not sure about how many foreign students there are.

Those are typical of some females everywhere. You can still get a lot of pictures of women without all that gunk on. Certainly around Ireland natural looks are preferred also.

Here's some students from University College Cork. Girls have not a bit of makeup on.

https://www.tandempm.ie/wp-content/uploads/TAN016.jpg

https://www.ucc.ie/en/media/support/scholarshipsandprizes/sportsscholarships/pv161019uccsport2.jpg

https://www.ucc.ie/en/media/1newsimages/2017andolder/december2013/PV091213UCC4[1].jpg

Anyway what is your point? Do you think Irish in general are very different from Irish Protestants, Scots and English?

[Oliver109]

Those are typical of some females everywhere. You can still get a lot of pictures of women without all that gunk on. Certainly around Ireland natural looks are preferred also.

Here's some students from University College Cork. Girls have not a bit of makeup on.

https://www.tandempm.ie/wp-content/uploads/TAN016.jpg

https://www.ucc.ie/en/media/support/scholarshipsandprizes/sportsscholarships/pv161019uccsport2.jpg

https://www.ucc.ie/en/media/1newsimages/2017andolder/december2013/PV091213UCC4[1].jpg

Anyway what is your point? Do you think Irish in general are very different from Irish Protestants, Scots and English?

I think there is an east to west division in Ireland like there is to an extent in the UK, of course Irish are going to look a bit different from people in GB because of being separated by water, but because there are elements that unite the Irish with the British like a large brunn presence and also a lot of keltic nordics you could say they look more similar to us than the French.

[Grace O'Malley]

I think there is an east to west division in Ireland like there is to an extent in the UK, of course Irish are going to look a bit different from people in GB because of being separated by water, but because there are elements that unite the Irish with the British like a large brunn presence and also a lot of keltic nordics you could say they look more similar to us than the French.

I don't know because there is so much Irish ancestry in all the countries of Britain. There has also been British in Ireland. I think the majority of people are fairly similar. There is a continuum with West Scots being the closest to the Irish and Southeast English being closer to the Continent. So yes eastern seaboard of Ireland is closer to Britain. Northern Irish whether they are Catholic or Protestant are still closer to neighbouring Irish populations than they are to Southeast English for example.

https://storage.googleapis.com/plos-corpus-prod/10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152/1/pgen.1007152.g002.PNG_M?X-Goog-Algorithm=GOOG4-RSA-SHA256&X-Goog-Credential=wombat-sa%40plos-prod.iam.gserviceaccount.com%2F20230713%2Fauto%2Fs torage%2Fgoog4_request&X-Goog-Date=20230713T203331Z&X-Goog-Expires=86400&X-Goog-SignedHeaders=host&X-Goog-Signature=a38556fa7498a032d426f68f281183e7a92083a5 17aac002b24b0dfdf8a810d528c64d696f5f58cbf6a501a50d 35abbd7c2717f71552c989b9bb41fcf1f565805e4d8f93ed76 81ea259c602b723a276d49331ce05959ebd7e16bd1c4c3d34f 71f662de2692268a500541bcc80e98171398584e5c5df0b7c7 89bf4fd41d5c36958d6d546b32145aec070e7f81f9f3dd262e b91b99fd9e1db9652ff56eaefea42297449e2d5024707160fd fb4ab583b20a3069f82a2f0535536106a890731543b295aec1 6d63e2a72beb84c00e4bf4861cd9c802dbdb5deff5ff30279d 69bc72f6a3961d89edb2c40afac40ad02ce8aabca8759197c2 c1636cc6bf470db1d138b0

[Oliver109]

I don't know because there is so much Irish ancestry in all the countries of Britain. There has also been British in Ireland. I think the majority of people are fairly similar. There is a continuum with West Scots being the closest to the Irish and Southeast English being closer to the Continent. So yes eastern seaboard of Ireland is closer to Britain. Northern Irish whether they are Catholic or Protestant are still closer to neighbouring Irish populations than they are to Southeast English for example.

https://storage.googleapis.com/plos-corpus-prod/10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152/1/pgen.1007152.g002.PNG_M?X-Goog-Algorithm=GOOG4-RSA-SHA256&X-Goog-Credential=wombat-sa%40plos-prod.iam.gserviceaccount.com%2F20230713%2Fauto%2Fs torage%2Fgoog4_request&X-Goog-Date=20230713T203331Z&X-Goog-Expires=86400&X-Goog-SignedHeaders=host&X-Goog-Signature=a38556fa7498a032d426f68f281183e7a92083a5 17aac002b24b0dfdf8a810d528c64d696f5f58cbf6a501a50d 35abbd7c2717f71552c989b9bb41fcf1f565805e4d8f93ed76 81ea259c602b723a276d49331ce05959ebd7e16bd1c4c3d34f 71f662de2692268a500541bcc80e98171398584e5c5df0b7c7 89bf4fd41d5c36958d6d546b32145aec070e7f81f9f3dd262e b91b99fd9e1db9652ff56eaefea42297449e2d5024707160fd fb4ab583b20a3069f82a2f0535536106a890731543b295aec1 6d63e2a72beb84c00e4bf4861cd9c802dbdb5deff5ff30279d 69bc72f6a3961d89edb2c40afac40ad02ce8aabca8759197c2 c1636cc6bf470db1d138b0

True though you have to bare in mind the very British surnames of many northern Irish which suggests that they have significant GB ancestry

[Grace O'Malley]

True though you have to bare in mind the very British surnames of many northern Irish which suggests that they have significant GB ancestry

Yes mostly from Southwest Scotland. They have mostly Scottish names but they still cluster closer to Irish and Scottish populations. It's not that cut and dry as if you notice South Scotland clusters more with Irish groups.

There are also Protestants that have Irish surnames and Catholics that have Scottish surnames.

Gerry Adams is a good example of a Catholic with a Scottish surname as his paternal ancestors came from Galloway.

[ugochaves]

They are young girls. You should really show adult groups as young people don't have their features formed yet. Anyway these are also school kids from Sligo.

https://i.imgur.com/kmLTuEo.png

https://i.imgur.com/4xVLakp.png

https://i.imgur.com/WmTcWxd.png

If you compare them with people from Northern Ireland they aren't that different.
Serious alpine component for all ladies. I imagined the Irish differently, like this:
https://i.ibb.co/sRZTZJf/image.jpg (https://ibb.co/nmFXF8G)

80% of the milestones of the Irish with an Alpine component, It seems Western Europe is overrated.

[Grace O'Malley]

Serious alpine component for all ladies. I imagined the Irish differently, like this:
https://i.ibb.co/sRZTZJf/image.jpg (https://ibb.co/nmFXF8G)

Most females everywhere have rounder features. Irish are more likely to be Brunn influenced than alpines.

Nicole has changed a bit over the years as she has had surgery which is not unusual for an actress.

https://hollywoodlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/nicole-kidman-then-and-now-shutterstock-4.jpg?w=680

https://www.beautycrew.com.au/media/35470/gettyimages-692503780.jpg?height=621

[Katarzyna]

I agree very alpine looking. They would pass in Poland as a group.
I wonder how comes both Poland and Ireland have so many alpine individuals ?

[Grace O'Malley]

I agree very alpine looking. They would pass in Poland as a group.
I wonder how comes both Poland and Ireland have so many alpine individuals ?

Baltid for Poland and Brunn for Irish?

[ugochaves]

Most females everywhere have rounder features. Irish are more likely to be Brunn influenced than alpines.

Nicole has changed a bit over the years as she has had surgery which is not unusual for an actress.
Probably Brunn. But this is not what I expected from the Irish. It's probably worth slowing down a little while admiring the beauty of Western Europeans. This is not Hollywood, this is life.

[ugochaves]

Baltid for Poland and Brunn for Irish?
Poles are much more Nordid

[Grace O'Malley]

Probably Brunn. But this is not what I expected from the Irish. It's probably worth slowing down a little while admiring the beauty of Western Europeans. This is not Hollywood, this is life.

People are generally ordinary everywhere. I prefer the more mundane looks myself. I don't really like Kardashian types or the types that are on Love Island for example (I've never watched it but still know the types that are on those programs). :)

[Grace O'Malley]

Poles are much more Nordid

Irish aren't Nordid. They are extreme Northwesterners.

[ugochaves]

Irish aren't Nordid. They are extreme Northwesterners.
Russians every second is Nordid or northern pondid. Yes, we have Ladogan a little, but still...It's strange for Western Europe to be like potatoes (sorry)...

[Grace O'Malley]

Russians every second is Nordid or northern pondid. Yes, we have Ladogan a little, but still...It's strange for Western Europe to be like potatoes (sorry)...

I love potatoes. I'm happy with the Irish so no need to be sorry. I don't insult other nationalities either but we all have our preferences which is good. Irish have great personalities so they have other qualities and they are quite popular people worldwide. Not bad for a small country.

[ugochaves]

I love potatoes. I'm happy with the Irish so no need to be sorry. I don't insult other nationalities either but we all have our preferences which is good. Irish have great personalities so they have other qualities and they are quite popular people worldwide. Not bad for a small country.
I love the Irish too. But now I'm disappointed...I have nowhere to attach my daughter except for the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian population...Are there no whites anywhere? in shock.

[ugochaves]

With each new photo of the "European" I understand that we, the Eastern Slavs, are the only remaining white people...Maybe Germans and Scandinavians. But I don't want to see these potatoes in my family...

[Grace O'Malley]

I love the Irish too. But now I'm disappointed...I have nowhere to attach my daughter except for the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian population...Are there no whites anywhere? in shock.

You're daughter will attach to who she wants in the end. If you live in Russia it will most probably be a Russian. Hopefully it will be a nice Russian lad.

[ugochaves]

You're daughter will attach to who she wants in the end. If you live in Russia it will most probably be a Russian. Hopefully it will be a nice Russian lad.
I have a good inheritance, I will deprive everything and stop communicating....I am a nationalist and so is my ex-wife...And we are raising our daughter in this....she is already somewhat like a Finnish Swede in her hateful nature)))) It can't be otherwise...I'm very surprised by the Irish, honestly..is it really so? In my dreams, there has always been a Northern person who surpasses us in Europeoidness...What I saw disappointed me.

[Grace O'Malley]

I have a good inheritance, I will deprive everything and stop communicating....I am a nationalist and so is my ex-wife...And we are raising our daughter in this....she is already somewhat like a Finnish Swede in her hateful nature)))) It can't be otherwise...I'm very surprised by the Irish, honestly..is it really so? In my dreams, there has always been a Northern person who surpasses us in Europeoidness...What I saw disappointed me.

You're easily disappointed. If you visit Ireland you will meet lots of lovely, warm friendly people with great senses of humour. Of course there are good and bad in every group but the Irish are a very welcoming people.

[Katarzyna]

Baltid for Poland and Brunn for Irish?

I mean that the kids in the photos could pass as polish. (Only the white ones ofc, not the one of Asian and African descent)
Because both Poles and Irish have many alpine individuals. Our polish Gorids usually look closer to their western alpine counterparts rather than other Eastern European phenotypes. I noticed that a long time ago already.

[ugochaves]

I mean that the kids in the photos could pass as polish. (Only the white ones ofc, not the one of Asian and African descent)
Because both Poles and Irish have many alpine individuals. Our polish Gorids usually look closer to their western alpine counterparts rather than other Eastern European phenotypes. I noticed that a long time ago already.
It is so!. Poles are very Western in appearance for us. A strange alien look haunts me starting from the western border of Belarus and the Dnieper of Ukraine.

[Katarzyna]

It is so!. Poles are very Western in appearance for us. A strange alien look haunts me starting from the western border of Belarus and the Dnieper of Ukraine.

And you know what? Russian faces also haunt me in my dreams. Last night I dreamed that that I looked out the window and saw the beautiful sky and the moon. But then suddenly the moon had Putin‘s face. And I always wondered if that emoji reminded me of someone :

https://i.ibb.co/8dqBsK1/IMG-2199.jpg (https://ibb.co/hZbM973)

[ugochaves]

And you know what? Russian faces also haunt me in my dreams. Last night I dreamed that that I looked out the window and saw the beautiful sky and the moon. But then suddenly the moon had Putin‘s face. And I always wondered if that emoji reminded me of someone :

https://i.ibb.co/8dqBsK1/IMG-2199.jpg (https://ibb.co/hZbM973)

))) Putin worries the whole world in dreams today, an ordinary Russian man of an old age. But with a Russian character. I probably think that I will look like him in 70+ years externally, but alas, my balls will never be so big.:D

[Ruggery]

I think there is an east to west division in Ireland like there is to an extent in the UK, of course Irish are going to look a bit different from people in GB because of being separated by water, but because there are elements that unite the Irish with the British like a large brunn presence and also a lot of keltic nordics you could say they look more similar to us than the French.

In your opinion, the English of the south are closer phenotypically to the French than to the Irish?

[Tooting Carmen]

In your opinion, the English of the south are closer phenotypically to the French than to the Irish?

Not usually, no.

[Ruggery]

Not usually, no.

But the southern English have more continental European phenotypes than the Irish.

[Tooting Carmen]

But the southern English have more continental European phenotypes than the Irish.

Yes, but they are still a fundamentally British Isles population.

[Creoda]

You're easily disappointed. If you visit Ireland you will meet lots of lovely, warm friendly people with great senses of humour. Of course there are good and bad in every group but the Irish are a very welcoming people.
I guess this is the Russian charm offensive.


Yes, but they are still a fundamentally Northwestern European population.
Fixed.

[Russki]

I guess this is the Russian charm offensive.


He is literally JamesBond007 in terms of the amount of trolling content, but more social.

[Grace O'Malley]

I mean that the kids in the photos could pass as polish. (Only the white ones ofc, not the one of Asian and African descent)
Because both Poles and Irish have many alpine individuals. Our polish Gorids usually look closer to their western alpine counterparts rather than other Eastern European phenotypes. I noticed that a long time ago already.

Possibly alpines are everywhere. :) I wonder if this is because they are all teens as I don't think anyone would say Irish and Polish are particularly similar looking. I have heard Feiichy posting that many Irish have similarities to Slavs. Then others think the Irish are distinctive. I just think they are similar to their neighbours. I'm sure all populations in Europe will have people that can pass in each other's countries. They all have common ancestors after all but also some different inputs also.

[Albannach]

True though you have to bare in mind the very British surnames of many northern Irish which suggests that they have significant GB ancestry

Mostly Scottish surnames, many of which have a Gaelic origin, most of the Scottish planters in the north of Ireland came from southwest Scotland, which itself was historically a very Gaelic area, with Gaelic surviving into the 18th century.

There was also a surprising amount of intermarriage between Scottish planters and native Irish in Northern Ireland if my own family tree is anything to go by.

What about Northern Irish Protestants Colin Murray and Christine Bleakley, they are probably the darkest Northern Irish people I can think of, yet they are Protestants.

[Oliver109]

In your opinion, the English of the south are closer phenotypically to the French than to the Irish?

Overall the Irish, there isn't a clear cut southern look as some can pass in Denmark, others in Germany or Spain but 1 the cro magnon brunn and borreby factor is quite common everywhere in Britain and Ireland and 2 the French are more gracilised than the English or the Flemish.

[Grace O'Malley]

Athletes tend to have different phenotypes to regular people, Irish have a higher cepalhic index than the British, Coon spoke of the proddies as having longer narrower heads. Here are girls from Sligo, some appear alpinised
https://lirp.cdn-website.com/db5dc70f/dms3rep/multi/opt/Girls+active+in+sligo+with+Elaine+Byrne++Mar+5-da7f8159-960w.jpg

I can't think of a better way to show a population than a crowd video. You can't really cherry pick. These are Western Irish.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5R5yQRg7bE

[Creoda]

Mostly Scottish surnames, many of which have a Gaelic origin, most of the Scottish planters in the north of Ireland came from southwest Scotland, which itself was historically a very Gaelic area, with Gaelic surviving into the 18th century.
Which proves again how stupid it is to talk about British as a single anthropological category separate to Irish. But will Oliver ever stop doing it? Not in my lifetime.

[Oliver109]

Which proves again how stupid it is to talk about British as a single anthropological category separate to Irish. But will Oliver ever stop doing it? Not in my lifetime.

Did i refer to the British as a single anthropological category? not as far as i am aware, though what i will say is that all British regions share similar phenotypes i.e brunns, borrebies, keltics, atlantids and so you get a fairly similar look across the isles. The Irish differ in having a higher cepalhic index, higher facial wideness and also darker hair especially in the west.

[Creoda]

Did i refer to the British as a single anthropological category? not as far as i am aware, though what i will say is that all British regions share similar phenotypes i.e brunns, borrebies, keltics, atlantids and so you get a fairly similar look across the isles. The Irish differ in having a higher cepalhic index, higher facial wideness and also darker hair especially in the west.
Whenever you talk on here about British as one group, vs neighbouring countries, you're doing so.

So you think Scots and Ulster British are fairly similar looking to Southern English, but at the same time dissimilar to Irish? That's insane.

[Oliver109]

Whenever you talk on here about British as one group, vs neighbouring countries, you're doing so.

So you think Scots and Ulster British are fairly similar looking to Southern English, but at the same time dissimilar to Irish? That's insane.

Well i do think of Irish, especially western Irish as being in many ways considerably different from the British because of the traits i mentioned i.e hair color, facial features, the southern English while again quite different from Scots still have a lot in common in terms of nordicness, long headedness and even in perhaps 80% of cases a similar pigmentation with the southern English only somewhat more tanned. Anthropological maps show S England having more or less the same cepalhic index as Scotland.

[Grace O'Malley]

Well i do think of Irish, especially western Irish as being in many ways considerably different from the British because of the traits i mentioned i.e hair color, facial features, the southern English while again quite different from Scots still have a lot in common in terms of nordicness, long headedness and even in perhaps 80% of cases a similar pigmentation with the southern English only somewhat more tanned. Anthropological maps show S England having more or less the same cepalhic index as Scotland.

They aren't "considerably different" that is such an exaggeration. Western Irish are also not outliers. With genetic distance the differences in Ireland are very small. The difference in Britain are larger naturally enough. In fact all Northwestern Europeans are fairly close genetically.

Also southern English are more brown eyed if you want to talk about phenotype traits with the Western Irish being the most blue eyed. Anyway my main point is that Ulster Irish whether they be Protestants or Catholics are not greatly different than Irish and are closer to Irish populations than they are to Southern English ones. If you want to nit pick you could find subtle differences in all populations

This is interesting for discussion. When looking at British and Irish populations together the most distinctive are Orkney and North Wales.

https://storage.googleapis.com/plos-corpus-prod/10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152/1/pgen.1007152.g004.PNG_M?X-Goog-Algorithm=GOOG4-RSA-SHA256&X-Goog-Credential=wombat-sa%40plos-prod.iam.gserviceaccount.com%2F20230715%2Fauto%2Fs torage%2Fgoog4_request&X-Goog-Date=20230715T035722Z&X-Goog-Expires=86400&X-Goog-SignedHeaders=host&X-Goog-Signature=61c14039153f26e6ad822f9ae45eac80962b9aea 8d04d7a389c8fa3e4de17615e5dc9c2a4c2b4a7b2725a3f3fc 6bcc67f6ae205a7e0a69db8f9925b31e26aec83aaedad2f34d d0d5eb7bdfb19da1d8767ce1ae5a5777213d50ed38edceedd7 5fd5ccdcf690d49f03065bbfa3837adf0a040a3537ff5412d8 c416ad1734511e1f2a45de5bef7ab4fd576a8e841eeaedf780 ff1a3d33795005ec59abf8cbbdf9a4b63a755ba51ee1676443 c8e343a84d58a6938d2156095d3fa880f8bd1a04c0e31cd694 a772e0aed30cbbc17ff63510abe89671169a8838645f11ed70 7ded1f9bdcefc73b3cd9cd9dc7c72c6af35da3edf923d42de6 4c6420b7c03abe72380ee8

Fig 4. Principal components 2 and 3 of combined Irish and British coancestry matrix.

(A) fineSTRUCTURE clustering dendrogram for combined Irish and British data, with cluster groups defined as in Fig 2. Immediately following the principal inter-island split, Orkney and Wales branch in sequence, consistent with previous observations. (B) Principal component analysis (PCA) of haplotypic similarity based on the ChromoPainter coancestry matrix, coloured by cluster group with their median locations labelled. PC2 captures an Orkney split, while PC3 captures a Welsh split.

https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152.g004

[Grace O'Malley]

I wish I could get a clearer copy of this plot but it is from a lecture so I've just got a screen shot. This is a genetic plot but includes many areas of Scotland also. Green is Wales, red is England, Scotland in blue, Ireland in yellow and the other areas are the Scottish Isles. It illustrates what Creoda posted above about Britain not being one genetic group and i.e. that some parts of Scotland are closer to Ireland and some are closer to England. It also shows that there is no Insular Celtic genetic cluster. It also illustrated that all Northern Irish are closer to Irish groups than they are to English.

https://i.imgur.com/HaJjBk5.jpg

When you have a European plot it is interesting to see where Britain and Ireland plot.

https://i.imgur.com/h3mjOnB.png

[celticdragongod]

These are the most British of the British in terms of culture, patriotism and in some cases bloodline, to me they closely resemble Scots, northern English and some midland English, notice how they are less alpinised than many Irish groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9XT9xJPOfw

Not surprising. Why on earth would British colonists look like native Irish Catholics?

[celticdragongod]

I wish I could get a clearer copy of this plot but it is from a lecture so I've just got a screen shot. This is a genetic plot but includes many areas of Scotland also. Green is Wales, red is England, Scotland in blue, Ireland in yellow and the other areas are the Scottish Isles. It illustrates what Creoda posted above about Britain not being one genetic group and i.e. that some parts of Scotland are closer to Ireland and some are closer to England. It also shows that there is no Insular Celtic genetic cluster. It also illustrated that all Northern Irish are closer to Irish groups than they are to English.

https://i.imgur.com/HaJjBk5.jpg

When you have a European plot it is interesting to see where Britain and Ireland plot.

https://i.imgur.com/h3mjOnB.png

The Gaelic Scots are mostly found in the Highlands while the Lowland Scots are mostly descended from English colonists.

[celticdragongod]

Whenever you talk on here about British as one group, vs neighbouring countries, you're doing so.

So you think Scots and Ulster British are fairly similar looking to Southern English, but at the same time dissimilar to Irish? That's insane.

The British people who came to Ireland as part of the Ulster Plantation were mostly Lowland Scots and Northern English which means that they were less Gaelic/Celtic and more Germanic/Anglo-Saxon than Irish Catholics.

[celticdragongod]

Mostly Scottish surnames, many of which have a Gaelic origin, most of the Scottish planters in the north of Ireland came from southwest Scotland, which itself was historically a very Gaelic area, with Gaelic surviving into the 18th century.

There was also a surprising amount of intermarriage between Scottish planters and native Irish in Northern Ireland if my own family tree is anything to go by.

What about Northern Irish Protestants Colin Murray and Christine Bleakley, they are probably the darkest Northern Irish people I can think of, yet they are Protestants.

Many so-called Scottish Gaelic names are of Viking origin.

https://www.scottish-history.com/origins3.shtml#:~:text=To%20this%20day%20you%20can ,are%20of%20Norse%2DScot%20origin.

[aherne]

They are mostly Alpinized CM... There is hardly any Aryan