Classify Arab man(do you see metrical similarities with Iberians?)

[Oliver109]

This man metrically and pigmentationally seems similar to some of these gracile Iberians
https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D4D22AQFK2KRfbem9uQ/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1687292022299?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=v1hVg4WxzjLt4bNiWNuWQDGVg-A6hSZ1TSiRLBe7H-4
https://i.imgur.com/wAdMQMb.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/j2TcgY2.jpeg

[parsley]

Pontid

[Grace O'Malley]

Is there any reason why an Arab man (what is his ethnicity?) would be particularly similar to Iberians over any other European population? There are other Europeans closer to Middle Eastern populations by geography and genetics? I'm just wondering why Iberian in particular? Possibly some Arabs could have a passing resemblance to some Europeans but the man above I would know he isn't Iberian.

[Oliver109]

Is there any reason why an Arab man (what is his ethnicity?) would be particularly similar to Iberians over any other European population? There are other Europeans closer to Middle Eastern populations by geography and genetics? I'm just wondering why Iberian in particular? Possibly some Arabs could have a passing resemblance to some Europeans but the man above I would know he isn't Iberian.

I think he is Egyptian because i found him on an Egyptian link, anyway if you see the Portuguese in the photos below they have similar traits like lean narrow faces, brunet white complexion, Italians are more alpinised so he doesn't really look Italian, metrically the man in the photo looks imo 90% like the Iberians.

[Dentist]

If there's a non-European admixture in Iberians it most likely comes from neighbouring Moroccans rather than Arabs who live far away.

[Oliver109]

If there's a non-European admixture in Iberians it most likely comes from neighbouring Moroccans rather than Arabs who live far away.

Moroccans have more cro magnon and also aterian admixture, they don't look much like Spaniards despite being close.

[Grace O'Malley]

I don't think the Egyptian man has a lean narrow face. He's is quite robust across the cheek area and also his eyes are very typical of his ethnicity. He doesn't look Iberian to me. I also don't think Italians are more alpinised. You are finding alpines everywhere lately. :p

https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D4D22AQFK2KRfbem9uQ/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1687292022299?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=v1hVg4WxzjLt4bNiWNuWQDGVg-A6hSZ1TSiRLBe7H-4

[Dentist]

Moroccans have more cro magnon and also aterian admixture, they don't look much like Spaniards despite being close.

Do you find Arabs more attractive than Moroccans?

[Oliver109]

I don't think the Egyptian man has a lean narrow face. He's is quite robust across the cheek area and also his eyes are very typical of his ethnicity. He doesn't look Iberian to me. I also don't think Italians are more alpinised. You are finding alpines everywhere lately. :p

https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D4D22AQFK2KRfbem9uQ/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1687292022299?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=v1hVg4WxzjLt4bNiWNuWQDGVg-A6hSZ1TSiRLBe7H-4

Theres maybe minor robustness, could be berberid influence but still he is lean and the eyes might have some Arab influences but still he probably could blend into an Iberian crowd like a Pole could blend into an English crowd. Alpines are quite typical of Italy too though they are heavily mixed with med elements.

[Oliver109]

Do you find Arabs more attractive than Moroccans?

basically the same though lighter skinned N Africans can be quite good looking, it doesn't really concern me though as i am more of a nordicist.

[Grace O'Malley]

Theres maybe minor robustness, could be berberid influence but still he is lean and the eyes might have some Arab influences but still he probably could blend into an Iberian crowd like a Pole could blend into an English crowd. Alpines are quite typical of Italy too though they are heavily mixed with med elements.

It's all just personal opinion though. You might think he could blend in but someone else will disagree. All these things are so subjective and people can have such bizarre views about populations. (Not meaning you in particular but in this forum some people can be way off when they say someone looks like a particular ethnicity.)

[Oliver109]

It's all just personal opinion though. You might think he could blend in but someone else will disagree. All these things are so subjective and people can have such bizarre views about populations. (Not meaning you in particular but in this forum some people can be way off when they say someone looks like a particular ethnicity.)

Well there are always slight differences in peoples physical makeup, to me many Meds look the same, perhaps if i grew up in Spain i could more easily suss out the non Spaniards from the group but imo olive skinned med people all look fairly similar whether they come from Iraq, Jordan or Greece. What makes some med people stand out might be their pigmentation with very solid black hair and eyes, this man even has a reddish beard indicating a not totally uneuropean look.

[Grace O'Malley]

Well there are always slight differences in peoples physical makeup, to me many Meds look the same, perhaps if i grew up in Spain i could more easily suss out the non Spaniards from the group but imo olive skinned med people all look fairly similar whether they come from Iraq, Jordan or Greece. What makes some med people stand out might be their pigmentation with very solid black hair and eyes, this man even has a reddish beard indicating a not totally uneuropean look.

People you are calling Meds have different genetics. Compare the populations you are calling Meds to Britain and Ireland for example (populations which you find great differences in)? How logical is it to think "Meds look the same"?

https://i.redd.it/znoo7h92o0l51.jpg

[Oliver109]

People you are calling Meds have different genetics. Compare the populations you are calling Meds to Britain and Ireland for example (populations which you find great differences in)? How logical is it to think "Meds look the same"?

https://i.redd.it/znoo7h92o0l51.jpg

Genetics are going to be different but fundamentally they are going to have the same origin going back maybe 40'000 years, have you heard of the Basal Eurasians? their genetics are found all over the middle east and parts of the Med.

[Grace O'Malley]

Genetics are going to be different but fundamentally they are going to have the same origin going back maybe 40'000 years, have you heard of the Basal Eurasians? their genetics are found all over the middle east and parts of the Med.

Well if you go back far enough we all come from Africa but what populations are today is the relevant part. Look where they plot? Greeks and Italians have more East Med input than Iberians for example. Populations plot the way they do because of the overall genetics.

[Oliver109]

Well if you go back far enough we all come from Africa but what populations are today is the relevant part. Look where they plot? Greeks and Italians have more East Med input than Iberians for example. Populations plot they way they do because of the overall genetics.

Of course though humans adapted to environmental pressures and there were certain mutations, bottleneck effects etc

[prohairesis]

he basically has the ideal "transmed" phenotype, though his face is a bit too wide. all his individual features can be found among iberians (the eye area, metrics, skin tone, hair shade etc), but it's not that easy to find an iberian who has all of them. usually an iberian will have a couple of med-tastic features but also some 'atlantic' tendencies that tilt them in a french-like way.

[Grace O'Malley]

Of course though humans adapted to environmental pressures and there were certain mutations, bottleneck effects etc

Yes that is what happened to all populations. Some have been more isolated i.e. population Sardinians and Basques to a lesser extent.

[Grace O'Malley]

he basically has the ideal "transmed" phenotype, though his face is a bit too wide. all his individual features can be found among iberians (the eye area, metrics, skin tone, hair shade etc), but it's not that easy to find an iberian who has all of them. usually an iberian will have a couple of med-tastic features but also some 'atlantic' tendencies that tilt them in a french-like way.

Where is "transmed" coming from genetically? What would connect Egyptians and Spanish for example if there is a real shared "transmed" phenotype?

[ecptr]

Where is "transmed" coming from genetically? What would connect Egyptians and Spanish for example if there is a real shared "transmed" phenotype?

Glad to see that you have finally acknowledged the Irish-Iberian connection and stood up for your distant Iberian relatives.

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/portugal/our-role/irish-relations

Archaeological evidence from the Iron, Bronze and Megalithic periods charts the earliest contacts between the Iberian Peninsula and Ireland. And, in recent years, DNA analysis suggests that, dating from the last Ice Age, the Portuguese-Iberian peoples were ancestors to the Gaelic Irish.

This is the official Irish government source.

https://www.dfa.ie/

[prohairesis]

Where is "transmed" coming from genetically? What would connect Egyptians and Spanish for example if there is a real shared "transmed" phenotype?

we don't know his nationality, he could be levantine or northwest african, someone with significant neolithic farmer inputs. even many saudis have important EEF-like admixture. I guess basal, natufian, CHG inputs all can contribute and simulate the phenotype the old anthropologists call mediterranean.

[Grace O'Malley]

Glad to see that you have finally acknowledged the Irish-Iberian connection and stood up for your distant Iberian relatives.

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/portugal/our-role/irish-relations

Archaeological evidence from the Iron, Bronze and Megalithic periods charts the earliest contacts between the Iberian Peninsula and Ireland. And, in recent years, DNA analysis suggests that, dating from the last Ice Age, the Portuguese-Iberian peoples were ancestors to the Gaelic Irish.

This is the official Irish government source.

https://www.dfa.ie/

That's just the Irish blarney right there. :) It is very easy to dismantle the incorrect information but I'm sure you understand genetics and I don't have to point out the very obvious errors. The very real links with Spain is from the Wild Geese with Irish soldiers going to Spain and fighting in their armies.

[Oliver109]

That's just the Irish blarney right there. :) It is very easy to dismantle the incorrect information but I'm sure you understand genetics and I don't have to point out the very obvious errors. The very real links with Spain is from the Wild Geese with Irish soldiers going to Spain and fighting in their armies.

Ireland didn't get that many med migrants but they clearly did impact the population to an extent, you see a lot of brunn-med hybrids that can often look similar to alpines though i don't think you believe that alpines exist lol

[Grace O'Malley]

we don't know his nationality, he could be levantine or northwest african, someone with significant neolithic farmer inputs. even many saudis have important EEF-like admixture. I guess basal, natufian, CHG inputs all can contribute and simulate the phenotype the old anthropologists call mediterranean.

He is Egyptian and while there might be EEF like admixture there is a lot of other genetics influences in Egypt that aren't in Spain which is why they are distant genetically.

[Grace O'Malley]

Ireland didn't get that many med migrants but they clearly did impact the population to an extent, you see a lot of brunn-med hybrids that can often look similar to alpines though i don't think you believe that alpines exist lol

I'm not a great advocate of using old world anthropology for populations when we have genetics now. That round face type is a common trait in many females no matter what their ethnicity is. Also aren't alpines supposedly not common in the Irish according to anthropologists?

[Oliver109]

I'm not a great advocate of using old world anthropology for populations when we have genetics now. That round face type is a common trait in many females no matter what their ethnicity is. Also aren't alpines supposed not common in the Irish according to anthropologists?

Alpines are reduced cro magnons, Coon said that many reduced brunns in Ireland are physically alpines, also he said many alpines are mixed with med elements and take on a gracile appearance.

[Grace O'Malley]

Alpines are reduced cro magnons, Coon said that many reduced brunns in Ireland are physically alpines, also he said many alpines are mixed with med elements and take on a gracile appearance.

Which shows you how it is not accurate when you have genetics. The Irish are basically a northern Bell Beaker population which arrived there approximately 4,000 years ago. Earlier populations have all but disappeared. Whatever was brought in is only there from these Bell Beakers. Basically there is hardly any Irish Farmer ancestry or Irish HG in the present day Irish population. Ireland did not have a surviving Farmer population so what these Bell Beakers absorbed on their way there is what is in Ireland. There has always been population movement between Ireland and Britain. The only other groups that came to Ireland other than the ones from the neighbouring island are Vikings and Normans. They are the historic populations that came to Ireland. So explain the anthropology from those population movements?

[Avicenna]

Pontid
No way is this guy Pontid lol, he's Alpinised Arabid .

The closest non euro groups metrically speaking NOT pigmentation to Atlanto Meds which dominates Iberia are the Iranids , high vaulted sharp featured long face Mediterraneans.

https://i.ibb.co/3BzqWGz/Screenshot-20230622-105919-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/GcTLkBT)
https://i.ibb.co/r6d3QY7/Screenshot-20230710-193029-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/XsYDW12)
https://i.ibb.co/fvFdSKd/Screenshot-20230623-111102.jpg (https://ibb.co/zJxV5LV)
https://i.ibb.co/9HS3S69/Screenshot-20230706-162309-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Zz71756)
https://i.ibb.co/M9yP4rF/Screenshot-20230623-215851-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/mSrhwkf)
https://i.ibb.co/g4NtWk9/Screenshot-20230623-220048-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Hh6GP54)
https://i.ibb.co/1ZJwKC3/Screenshot-20230623-215649-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/BLKSjhm)

[parsley]

No way is this guy Pontid lol, he's Alpinised Arabid .

ok if it will make you happy

[Avicenna]

ok if it will make you happy

If being correct makes me happy then yes. You clearly have no idea about phenotypes.

[vader]

That man doesn't look like a stereotypical arab to me at all. A resemblance between populations is always possible with even a marginal genetic similarity. The basic concept regarding phenotype vs autosomal shouldn't be rocket science so it shouldn't be difficult to understand that it's human population genetics. If you knew about it you'd know phenotype genes are extremely complex, and autosomal genes do not always correspond to create a perfect representation of certain populations globally.

Then again if people understood this, posting phenotypes all day in attempt to prove distinctions / similarities between groups would be a waste of time. I see it as that, although I am well aware some do it in a *very* serious manner ;)

[prohairesis]

atlanto-med is not the dominant phenotype in Iberia, the general pop is very much gracile-med. anthropologists stated that gracile med and arabid were "cousin" phenotypes and metrically identical. and those cherrypicked iranids are closer to Caucasus and far West Asian populations, way too coarse-featured, most of them would never pass.

in fact iberians and middle eastern people are still metrically very similar due to their shared old mediterranean admixture, though their finer features are divergent.

here we have a blond spaniard politician (Pablo Fernandez Santos) in the top 0.1% of north-shifted iberians, nonetheless, the italian alpinoid next to him has a much more massive skull.
https://s3.ppllstatics.com/leonoticias/www/multimedia/201807/12/media/cortadas/ICAL397763-keuC-U603245607419WG-624x385@Leonoticias.jpg

[Oliver109]

Which shows you how it is not accurate when you have genetics. The Irish are basically a northern Bell Beaker population which arrived there approximately 4,000 years ago. Earlier populations have all but disappeared. Whatever was brought in is only there from these Bell Beakers. Basically there is hardly any Irish Farmer ancestry or Irish HG in the present day Irish population. Ireland did not have a surviving Farmer population so what these Bell Beakers absorbed on their way there is what is in Ireland. There has always been population movement between Ireland and Britain. The only other groups that came to Ireland other than the ones from the neighbouring island are Vikings and Normans. They are the historic populations that came to Ireland. So explain the anthropology from those population movements?

No one knows what the bell beakers really looked like but they must have looked often more brunn and cro magnon, even the Belgians often resemble the Irish with red hair, alpinoids, pale skin being seen often, so bell beakers would probably have looked like nw Euros.

[Avicenna]

atlanto-med is not the dominant phenotype in Iberia, the general pop is very much gracile-med. anthropologists stated that gracile med and arabid were "cousin" phenotypes and metrically identical. and those cherrypicked iranids are closer to Caucasus and far West Asian populations, way too coarse-featured, most of them would never pass.

in fact iberians and middle eastern people are still metrically very similar due to their shared old mediterranean admixture, though their finer features are divergent.

here we have a blond spaniard politician (Pablo Fernandez Santos) in the top 0.1% of north-shifted iberians, nonetheless, the italian alpinoid next to him has a much more massive skull.
https://s3.ppllstatics.com/leonoticias/www/multimedia/201807/12/media/cortadas/ICAL397763-keuC-U603245607419WG-624x385@Leonoticias.jpg

These are not cherrypicked

https://i.ibb.co/5Yj5hXS/Screenshot-20230623-104838-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/wJQKhZP)
https://i.ibb.co/Q6nGjsc/Screenshot-20230531-230522-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/mHt7FQB)
https://i.ibb.co/r6d3QY7/Screenshot-20230710-193029-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/XsYDW12)

These are cherrypicked

https://i.ibb.co/W2CD5Qf/Screenshot-20230613-223723-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/QK08QZM)
https://i.ibb.co/0sG4BQZ/Screenshot-20230613-155655-com-android-gallery3d.jpg (https://ibb.co/LNZjQv6)
https://i.ibb.co/CwZYZsj/Screenshot-20230613-155650-com-android-gallery3d.jpg (https://ibb.co/Rgmsm4X)
https://i.ibb.co/RhH1WFK/Screenshot-20230614-102358-com-instagram-android.jpg (https://ibb.co/9wYJjD0)
https://i.ibb.co/sbrLWFQ/Screenshot-20230613-155702-com-android-gallery3d.jpg (https://ibb.co/hLvpYKH)
https://i.ibb.co/c8Hn3jM/Screenshot-20230613-155720-com-android-gallery3d.jpg (https://ibb.co/gWpK9xH)
https://i.ibb.co/RYH7ZbX/Screenshot-20230613-155907-com-android-gallery3d.jpg (https://ibb.co/6rsNVwK)
https://i.ibb.co/Kx6hmmx/Screenshot-20230616-112919.jpg (https://ibb.co/8gMsXXg)
https://i.ibb.co/XjvX3gw/Screenshot-20230613-154530-com-android-gallery3d.jpg (https://ibb.co/vVK1QGt)
https://i.ibb.co/f0TXzZg/Screenshot-20230616-013328.jpg (https://ibb.co/2KpF1R9)

[Eurafricanid]

Genetics are going to be different but fundamentally they are going to have the same origin going back maybe 40'000 years, have you heard of the Basal Eurasians? their genetics are found all over the middle east and parts of the Med.

The Irish themselves are around 45% Basal Eurasian, while the Spanish Average is around 55% and the Basques are around 53%, so don't start with that basal Eurasian bullshit.
For comparison an Arab is around >80% - >95%, going from the Levant to southern Arabia.

The Yamnaya (irish highest component) is ~40% CHG & Iran_N/Chl, which is a Basal Eurasian-Heavy component, it's as heavy as ANF is, don't forget that the difference between the Spanish and Irish is of 22% (aka Spanish are 22% more ANF (and Taforalt) and the Irish are 22% more Yamnaya (a tiny bit more WHG (included under the 22%))).
If you compare them with the Basques, the difference is bigger (<25%, with the Basques beeing more ANF and WHG, and the Irish beeing much more Yamnaya (double the amount)).

[Damião de Góis]

atlanto-med is not the dominant phenotype in Iberia, the general pop is very much gracile-med. anthropologists stated that gracile med and arabid were "cousin" phenotypes and metrically identical. and those cherrypicked iranids are closer to Caucasus and far West Asian populations, way too coarse-featured, most of them would never pass.

in fact iberians and middle eastern people are still metrically very similar due to their shared old mediterranean admixture, though their finer features are divergent.

here we have a blond spaniard politician (Pablo Fernandez Santos) in the top 0.1% of north-shifted iberians, nonetheless, the italian alpinoid next to him has a much more massive skull.
https://s3.ppllstatics.com/leonoticias/www/multimedia/201807/12/media/cortadas/ICAL397763-keuC-U603245607419WG-624x385@Leonoticias.jpg

That's fascinating brazilian analysis but you have to explain what is the "shared old mediterranean admixture" iberians and arabs have. Because i don't know what it could be:

https://i.imgur.com/cpMKzFy.png

Not to mention how different haplogroups are. But i don't follow brazuca anthropology, so maybe i'm not updated with the latest findings.

[Eurafricanid]

That's fascinating brazilian analysis but you have to explain what is the "shared old mediterranean admixture" iberians and arabs have. Because i don't know what it could be:

https://i.imgur.com/cpMKzFy.png

Not to mention how different haplogroups are. But i don't follow brazuca anthropology, so maybe i'm not updated with the latest findings.

Why did you insult my country like that? While I'm here trying to represent it well :( (lol)

[ecptr]

That's fascinating brazilian analysis but you have to explain what is the "shared old mediterranean admixture" iberians and arabs have. Because i don't know what it could be:

https://i.imgur.com/cpMKzFy.png

Anatolia_Barcin_N and Levant_PPNB are Mediterranean components.

MAR_Taforalt is 1/3 SSA component.

[Eurafricanid]

Anatolia_Barcin_N and Levant_PPNB are Mediterranean components.

MAR_Taforalt is 1/3 SSA component.

Mediterranean Brotherhood :cheers:

https://i.imgur.com/XRuCyDE.png

[Damião de Góis]

Anatolia_Barcin_N and Levant_PPNB are Mediterranean components.

MAR_Taforalt is 1/3 SSA component.

Yeah? So how much mediterranean mainland greeks are again?


Mainland Greeks aren't even racially Mediterranean, only Greek islanders are.


Italians and Iberians are the darkest Europeans. Greeks are lighter than both groups.