Do Poles have Jewish admixture? Or what is the source of "southern" admixture in Poles?

[Peterski]

For example when using such a model with Early Medieval Poles and modern Poles, Ashkenazi is picked up (in addition to "extra" Germanic):

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

SOURCE:


Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska,0.1281648,0.1243262,0. 0755374,0.0691947,0.041923,0.0256997,0.0086249,0.0 124956,-0.0003477,-0.0262967,-0.002314,-0.0108129,0.017029,0.0221779,-0.008978,0.0013623,0.003742,-0.0012415,0.0037772,0.0000782,-0.0035406,-0.0054036,0.0074811,-0.0058562,0.0019818
Ashkenazi_Poland,0.1001169,0.1368425,-0.0073382,-0.0429994,0.0097966,-0.0154087,-0.0008812,-0.0008942,0.0081981,0.0142751,0.0011639,-0.0005932,0.0028802,0.0001662,-0.0041451,-0.001674,-0.0037648,3.18e-05,-0.0008065,-0.0040645,-0.0026776,-0.0022721,0.0016895,0.002169,0.0015267
Dutch,0.1274407,0.1341783,0.0602712,0.0440759,0.04 08435,0.0163974,0.0054023,0.0072633,0.0042087,0.00 19245,-0.0056347,0.0044274,-0.0098456,-0.0086761,0.01783,0.0056231,-0.0065161,0.0017477,0.0039087,0.0028161,0.00448,0. 0033848,-5.1e-06,0.0138921,-0.0006557
Danish,0.1312479,0.1350654,0.0663779,0.0524377,0.0 413029,0.0194569,0.0051584,0.0074014,0.0034365,-0.002558,-0.0053588,0.0034802,-0.0085067,-0.0070935,0.0186691,0.0061171,-0.0065193,0.0020474,0.0032402,0.0043462,0.0056397, 0.0024349,0.0006923,0.013774,0.0002011

TARGET:


Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0 406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.8607% / 0.00860695
79.8 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
13.6 Danish
6.6 Ashkenazi_Poland

What do you think about this? Is this real or should I use another "southern" population? What is the source of "southern" admixture in Poles?

[Peterski]

Why are modern Poles noticeably more "southern" than Early Medieval Poles (Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska)? Which admixture caused this?

=====

Edit:

When running all samples individually (sorted from highest to lowest "southern" component):

https://i.imgur.com/KilVwSG.png

[Kiel]

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.7055% / 0.00705478
66.2 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
30.2 Hungarian
3.6 Danish

Added Hungarian and this happens.

With the original version I for eg get 20% Ashkenazi but in reality I have none. Calc just needs some other wog component, thats all.

Target: Kiel_scaled
Distance: 1.9327% / 0.01932716
53.8 Dutch
20.4 Ashkenazi_Poland
16.8 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
9.0 Danish

[Katarzyna]

No Jewish in me


Target: Katarzyna(real)
Distance: 1.5548% / 0.01554835
82.2 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
12.4 Dutch
5.4 Danish

[Peterski]

Calc just needs some other wog component, thats all.

But what could be the source of this "wog component" in modern Poles, which was absent in Early Medieval Poles?

The only autosomally "southern" (or "wog") population, which was widespread over the whole Poland, were Jews.

[ugochaves]

Because all Slavs have become south because of the Balkan migration. Even I am 0.1% Balkan. Poles are 20-30% Balkans. It was a massive migration. Jew and Pole - heaven and earth.

[Katarzyna]

Because all Slavs have become south because of the Balkan migration. Even I am 0.1% Balkan. Poles are 20-30% Balkans. It was a massive migration. Jew and Pole - heaven and earth.

I am not 20% Balkan

[Peterski]

Because all Slavs have become south because of the Balkan migration. Even I am 0.1% Balkan. Poles are 20-30% Balkans. It was a massive migration.

It is very unlikely that Vlach migrations could have such a big impact over all Poland.

[Kiel]

But what could be the source of this "wog component" in modern Poles, which was absent in Early Medieval Poles?

The only autosomally "southern" (or "wog") population, which was widespread over the whole Poland, were Jews.

But Poles from thr southern part of the country are part of this "Polish" average, right? They definitely need a southern component to be modeled.
If that 6% Jewish was real I dont think It would disappear after adding Hungarian. Im no expert, its just my take on this.

[Kiel]

Because all Slavs have become south because of the Balkan migration. Even I am 0.1% Balkan. Poles are 20-30% Balkans. It was a massive migration. Jew and Pole - heaven and earth.

Poles ara 20-30% Balkan? You must be trolling here.

[Abriekman]

What do you think about this? Is this real or should I use another "southern" population? What is the source of "southern" admixture in Poles?

This is very interesting topic. Not only Poles have some extra south compared to Medieval Slavs, Ukrainians and Russians have it as well.

[ugochaves]

It is very unlikely that Vlach migrations could have such a big impact over all Poland.
You are different from the real Slavs. Central Europeans, Vlachs - there is no difference for the Slavic Adam (Russians)..

[Katarzyna]

But Poles from thr southern part of the country are part of this "Polish" average, right? They definitely need a southern component to be modeled.
If that 6% Jewish was real I dont think It would disappear after adding Hungarian. Im no expert, its just my take on this.

Agree. I tried to run around 20 modern Polish and Ukrainian samples and Ukrainians obviously had very high Ashkenazi Jewish which is probably because of the lack of Southern component. And some Southern Poles have the same issue.

[ugochaves]

This is very interesting topic. Not only Poles have some extra south compared to Medieval Slavs, Ukrainians and Russians have it as well.
Russians are not Slavs! We are the indigenous population of Eastern Europe, the ancestors of the Slavs. But we are not Slavs

[Peterski]

When running all samples individually (sorted from highest to lowest "southern" component):

https://i.imgur.com/KilVwSG.png

[Abriekman]

Russians are not Slavs! We are the indigenous population of Eastern Europe, the ancestors of the Slavs. But we are not Slavs

I wish moderators on Apricity were as harsh as on other forums. It won't be a place for civilized genetics discussion because of dolbaebs like you.

[majevica]

When running all samples individually (sorted from highest to lowest "southern" component):

https://i.imgur.com/KilVwSG.png

The distances are often quite high. I think this is because the ‘southern’ in Poles is not from Jews mostly

[Peterski]

This is very interesting topic. Not only Poles have some extra south compared to Medieval Slavs, Ukrainians and Russians have it as well.

But Kashubians in Northern Poland pretty much don't have it (see the run of all individual Polish samples which I made).

Could you run all of the Wielkopolska Polish samples for comparison?

[Katarzyna]

Here I ran it with many Polish samples and also a few Ukrainian and one Belarusian-like Lithuanian sample for reference
You can clearly see the increasing “Ashkenazi” in Southeners (Ukrainians and Southern Poles)

https://i.ibb.co/5W0w5gW/IMG-2803.png (https://ibb.co/rGjNZRG)
https://i.ibb.co/Jk609b9/IMG-2804.png (https://ibb.co/NYDQMkM)

[Abriekman]

But Kashubians in Northern Poland pretty much don't have it (see the run of all individual Polish samples which I made).

Could you run all of the Wielkopolska Polish samples for comparison?

https://i.imgur.com/vRHSeVp.png

I added Serbian

https://i.imgur.com/uEgMv3F.png

[ugochaves]

I wish moderators on Apricity were as harsh as on other forums. It won't be a place for civilized genetics discussion because of dolbaebs like you.
You're furious because you're stupid. You have nothing to answer. I will answer for every word I say.
Half of the territory of Russia was occupied by the Balts before the arrival of the Slavs. I hope you know archaeological cultures, smartass? I am a supporter of the "substrate version". Western Russians, Eastern Ukrainians and Belarusians are Slavs by genetics. The rest is a mixture. Russians especially. Vyatichi are Balts - their burial grounds resembled Baltic burials, not Slavic ones. We central Russians have nothing in common with the central Slavs, except for the language.

This smart guy thinks he knows everything, having familiarized himself with the near-scientific G25.

[Abriekman]

The question had already been raised on Anthrogenica

"If this (~Belarusian) is Early Slavic profile end of first millennium - then how did Belarusians and Russians became like they are now? Quite some “Greek” (or extra South) would be needed to compensate each assimilated Balt or Mordvin they had. And Belarusian did have significant Baltic substrate.

Some Slavic backmigration from Danube region? Just small but persistent mixing with Southerners?"

"I think both and there might evenually be more Dacian/Carpatho-Balkan shifted early Slavic tribes around.
Also, we might deal with non-completed mixture processes in Dome regions, like some groups living side by side rather than completely mixing up to late.
The rest should be from Slavic backflow, like you say from the Carpatho-Danubian sphere and non-Slavs inho."

I am not quoting usual users as if they were experts but I think their opinion is right...

[ugochaves]

https://i.imgur.com/vRHSeVp.png

I added Serbian

https://i.imgur.com/uEgMv3F.png
Some fuck came up with the G25, and now you rely on it? Are you a serious adult? This is entertainment - nothing more. MDLP27 sees my Ukrainian and North Russian roots, this shitty g25 considers me exclusively Central Russian.

[Katarzyna]

The question had already been raised on Anthrogenica

"If this (~Belarusian) is Early Slavic profile end of first millennium - then how did Belarusians and Russians became like they are now? Quite some “Greek” (or extra South) would be needed to compensate each assimilated Balt or Mordvin they had. And Belarusian did have significant Baltic substrate.

Some Slavic backmigration from Danube region? Just small but persistent mixing with Southerners?"

"I think both and there might evenually be more Dacian/Carpatho-Balkan shifted early Slavic tribes around.
Also, we might deal with non-completed mixture processes in Dome regions, like some groups living side by side rather than completely mixing up to late.
The rest should be from Slavic backflow, like you say from the Carpatho-Danubian sphere and non-Slavs inho."

I am not quoting usual users as if they were experts but I think their opinion is right...

This is quite true. I ran in K105 world averages the medieval Wielkopolska sample and compared it to the modern ones. The first match for the medieval one was Belarus while all modern ones had Slovakia as first foreign country.
This indeed indicates that the southern admixture probably comes from the mix with Carpathians.

https://i.ibb.co/1MZNTLc/IMG-2808.jpg (https://ibb.co/8bMw90k)
https://i.ibb.co/drVNMf8/IMG-2809.jpg (https://ibb.co/FKyQ3hR)

[meliton]

Because all Slavs have become south because of the Balkan migration.

Which Balkan migration? Only possible group would be white croats etc. who migrated from eastern europe to the Balkan. Or ancient Pannonian people who settled in the carpathians, mixed with Vlachs and Magyars.

[ugochaves]

Which Balkan migration? Only possible group would be white croats etc. who migrated from eastern europe to the Balkan. Or ancient Pannonian people who settled in the carpathians, mixed with Vlachs and Magyars.
There was migration from the Balkans to Eastern Europe. Therefore, we have dinars today.

[meliton]

There was migration from the Balkans to Eastern Europe. Therefore, we have dinars today.

Which migration?

[ugochaves]

Which migration?
I don't know, but there was this migration. The Eastern Slavs have a lot of Balkan admixture

[rothaer]

For example when using such a model with Early Medieval Poles and modern Poles, Ashkenazi is picked up (in addition to "extra" Germanic):

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

SOURCE:


Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska,0.1281648,0.1243262,0. 0755374,0.0691947,0.041923,0.0256997,0.0086249,0.0 124956,-0.0003477,-0.0262967,-0.002314,-0.0108129,0.017029,0.0221779,-0.008978,0.0013623,0.003742,-0.0012415,0.0037772,0.0000782,-0.0035406,-0.0054036,0.0074811,-0.0058562,0.0019818
Ashkenazi_Poland,0.1001169,0.1368425,-0.0073382,-0.0429994,0.0097966,-0.0154087,-0.0008812,-0.0008942,0.0081981,0.0142751,0.0011639,-0.0005932,0.0028802,0.0001662,-0.0041451,-0.001674,-0.0037648,3.18e-05,-0.0008065,-0.0040645,-0.0026776,-0.0022721,0.0016895,0.002169,0.0015267
Dutch,0.1274407,0.1341783,0.0602712,0.0440759,0.04 08435,0.0163974,0.0054023,0.0072633,0.0042087,0.00 19245,-0.0056347,0.0044274,-0.0098456,-0.0086761,0.01783,0.0056231,-0.0065161,0.0017477,0.0039087,0.0028161,0.00448,0. 0033848,-5.1e-06,0.0138921,-0.0006557
Danish,0.1312479,0.1350654,0.0663779,0.0524377,0.0 413029,0.0194569,0.0051584,0.0074014,0.0034365,-0.002558,-0.0053588,0.0034802,-0.0085067,-0.0070935,0.0186691,0.0061171,-0.0065193,0.0020474,0.0032402,0.0043462,0.0056397, 0.0024349,0.0006923,0.013774,0.0002011

TARGET:


Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0 406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.8607% / 0.00860695
79.8 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
13.6 Danish
6.6 Ashkenazi_Poland

What do you think about this? Is this real or should I use another "southern" population? What is the source of "southern" admixture in Poles?

I once made this thread about to my impression majority of Poles having small AJ contributions, exhibited at 23andMe: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?361854-Minor-Ashkenazi-Jewish-(AJ)-in-Poles

But I'm pretty sure that there is no AJ hidden in 23andMe's Eastern European (EE). Because 23andMe is the ultimate expert in detecting AJ segments and the small pool of AJ DNA is completely known by 23andMe, which may also be motivated by Anne Wojcicki's (CEO of 23andMe) own ancestry. :)

https://i.imgur.com/C0xqn6H.jpg

Only enourmosly old and fragmented, not to say vaporised, AJ segments can be missed and end up as part of the EE. But if such enormously old and omnipresent AJ contribution would be in Poles, even more Poles ought to exhibit very small (0.1%, 0.2%) determinable by 23andMe AJ segments. But this is not the case. They often have more and something like 30% (guessed based on my impression) of Poles do not exhibit even 0.1% AJ at 23andMe. My conclusion is that the contribution of AJ in Poles is old but the AJ segments do still have a notable size resulting in folks having none or notably more than 0.1% AJ.

In contrast to this (23andMe, where sequences are identified), in terms of G25 AJ is not specific. It's just South Italian-like wog. In G25 calculators this is interchangeable with kind of whatever wog. It can be expressed by a bigger proportion of Celtic-like, a smaller propüortion of Balkan or an even smaller proportion of East Med, that then contain an equivalent amount of wog.

I've modeled various individuals in G25, some having (real) AJ, some not, some being Northern Europeans, some Southern Europeans, and I can report that even an AJ reference in G25 is chosen by the calculator like any other component with a respective wog content.

Again: In 23andMe AJ is specific because there are identified particular sequences, in G25 AJ is not.

Btw. if modelling with AJ you should use Ashkenazi_Germany and not Ashkenazi_Poland. It's purer AJ and the Polish one is a little bit diluted with EE.

Now to your question: Yes, modern Poles, that in likely 60-70% of cases do exhibit some small AJ proportions at 23andMe, will in G25 have a little bit more wog because of that.

For finding out if this is the reason for an elevated wog since the Middle Ages we should check the G25 of Poles that have done 23andMe (spare me all olther companies and theri comparably irrelevant determinations!) and that did there get zero AJ and compare that to medieval Poles. Do we have any?

Another reason for elevated wog in Poles since the MA may well be assimilated Germans. Not only does Germanic proper exhibiting more wog than Balto-Slavic but also do Germans regularly exibit components that are much more wog than Germanic. Already Central Germans exhibit abt. 30% or more Celtic-like, let alone West and South Germans.

I do not state that this actually is the applicable answer to your question, but I think it could be or at least be a notable part of the explanation.

[Abriekman]

Another reason for elevated wog in Poles since the MA may well be assimilated Germans. Not only does Germanic proper exhibiting more wog than Balto-Slavic but also do Germans regularly exibit components that are much more wog than Germanic. Already Central Germans exhibit abt. 30% or more Celtic-like, let alone West and South Germans.

I do not state that this actually is the applicable answer to your question, but I think it could be or at least be a notable part of the explanation.

Could be there a slight Austrian contribution in Poles? If there are Medieval Slavic, Austrian and Serbian samples, modern Polish G25 average ( which are quite western in comparison to eastern Poles ) would be modelled as 75% Medieval Slavic, 20% Austrian-like and 5% Serbian-like.

But even if this southerness is from settlers from the west, the question regarding other Northern Slavs will remain open because there weren't things like Ostsiedlung and they also require something southern to balance it out with ancient Slavs.

https://i.imgur.com/6BXotaU.png

[rothaer]

Could be there a slight Austrian contribution in Poles? If there are Medieval Slavic, Austrian and Serbian samples, modern Polish G25 average ( which are quite western in comparison to eastern Poles ) would be modelled as 75% Medieval Slavic, 20% Austrian-like and 5% Serbian-like.

But even if this southerness is from settlers from the west, the question regarding other Northern Slavs will remain open because there weren't things like Ostsiedlung and they also require something southern to balance it out with ancient Slavs.

https://i.imgur.com/6BXotaU.png

One extreme in a claculator often evokes the counterpart for balancing and I think that this Serbian is much triggered by Erzya. I suggest to erase Erzya and provide just the two other components and we will see how much Serbian will be left.

[White Swan]

I once made this thread about to my impression majority of Poles having small AJ contributions, exhibited at 23andMe: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?361854-Minor-Ashkenazi-Jewish-(AJ)-in-Poles

But I'm pretty sure that there is no AJ hidden in 23andMe's Eastern European (EE). Because 23andMe is the ultimate expert in detecting AJ segments and the small pool of AJ DNA is completely known by 23andMe, which may also be motivated by Anne Wojcicki's (CEO of 23andMe) own ancestry. :)

https://i.imgur.com/C0xqn6H.jpg

Only enourmosly old and fragmented, not to say vaporised, AJ segments can be missed and end up as part of the EE. But if such enormously old and omnipresent AJ contribution would be in Poles, even more Poles ought to exhibit very small (0.1%, 0.2%) determinable by 23andMe AJ segments. But this is not the case. They often have more and something like 30% (guessed based on my impression) of Poles do not exhibit even 0.1% AJ at 23andMe. My conclusion is that the contribution of AJ in Poles is old but the AJ segments do still have a notable size resulting in folks having none or notably more than 0.1% AJ.

In contrast to this (23andMe, where sequences are identified), in terms of G25 AJ is not specific. It's just South Italian-like wog. In G25 calculators this is interchangeable with kind of whatever wog. It can be expressed by a bigger proportion of Celtic-like, a smaller propüortion of Balkan or an even smaller proportion of East Med, that then contain an equivalent amount of wog.

I've modeled various individuals in G25, some having (real) AJ, some not, some being Northern Europeans, some Southern Europeans, and I can report that even an AJ reference in G25 is chosen by the calculator like any other component with a respective wog content.

Again: In 23andMe AJ is specific because there are identified particular sequences, in G25 AJ is not.

Btw. if modelling with AJ you should use Ashkenazi_Germany and not Ashkenazi_Poland. It's purer AJ and the Polish one is a little bit diluted with EE.

Now to your question: Yes, modern Poles, that in likely 60-70% of cases do exhibit some small AJ proportions at 23andMe, will in G25 have a little bit more wog because of that.

For finding out if this is the reason for an elevated wog since the Middle Ages we should check the G25 of Poles that have done 23andMe (spare me all olther companies and theri comparably irrelevant determinations!) and that did there get zero AJ and compare that to medieval Poles. Do we have any?

Another reason for elevated wog in Poles since the MA may well be assimilated Germans. Not only does Germanic proper exhibiting more wog than Balto-Slavic but also do Germans regularly exibit components that are much more wog than Germanic. Already Central Germans exhibit abt. 30% or more Celtic-like, let alone West and South Germans.

I do not state that this actually is the applicable answer to your question, but I think it could be or at least be a notable part of the explanation.

Well I have 11% Eastern European on 23&me, which from their maps includes Poland. From my family history, I should be like 30% Polish, at least. I don't have any AJ or otherwise Jewish on my 23&me. So I guess this means that my eastern European is definitely not Jewish, but also why would my polish show up as a third of what it should? Does this mean my "polish" ancestors were not as indigenous to poland as other Poles? I'm told my polish ancestors look Scottish in blind classification, and I know that Scandinavians mingled with scots and also traveled to eastern Europe some time ago. Is this potentially a valid explanation?

[rothaer]

Well I have 11% Eastern European on 23&me, which from their maps includes Poland. From my family history, I should be like 30% Polish, at least. I don't have any AJ or otherwise Jewish on my 23&me. So I guess this means that my eastern European is definitely not Jewish, but also why would my polish show up as a third of what it should? Does this mean my "polish" ancestors were not as indigenous to poland as other Poles? I'm told my polish ancestors look Scottish in blind classification, and I know that Scandinavians mingled with scots and also traveled to eastern Europe some time ago. Is this potentially a valid explanation?

No.

Kind of 99.9% of NW Europeans going to Poland were Germans, so there is no reason to assume a more "exotic" NW European.

I see three possible explanations:

1. You had ancestors "from Poland" which were in the family lore misinterpreted as Poles and were in fact (Eastern) Germans. That would fit well to the EE proportion.
2. Ethnic Poles do score some 77% - 100% EE at 23andMe. You could simply have inherited less from these 30% of ancestors.
3. Your 30% information is wrong. I'm not sure what actual genealogical conditions cause you to end up having 30% Polish ancestry. It's an unusual proportion.

[Katarzyna]

Well I have 11% Eastern European on 23&me, which from their maps includes Poland. From my family history, I should be like 30% Polish, at least. I don't have any AJ or otherwise Jewish on my 23&me. So I guess this means that my eastern European is definitely not Jewish, but also why would my polish show up as a third of what it should? Does this mean my "polish" ancestors were not as indigenous to poland as other Poles? I'm told my polish ancestors look Scottish in blind classification, and I know that Scandinavians mingled with scots and also traveled to eastern Europe some time ago. Is this potentially a valid explanation?

Ok maybe you could clarify in more details who was Polish in your family? All 4 grandparents or only partly?
If you were just partly Polish then it makes sense to only score 30% EE. Because many Poles themselves already have Germanic admixture.

[Peterski]

Kind of 99.9% of NW Europeans going to Poland were Germans, so there is no reason to assume a more "exotic" NW European.

Surely not 99.9%. Check my thread about ethnic groups of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?260314-Ethnic-groups-of-the-Polish-Lithuanian-Commonwealth

[rothaer]

Surely not 99.9%. Check my thread about ethnic groups of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?260314-Ethnic-groups-of-the-Polish-Lithuanian-Commonwealth

Your information refers to 1618-1622 and is completely irrelevant as for ethnicities from just some generations back that White Swan will refer to.

The question is, how much % of individuals in Poland with a NW European ethnicity (here including German) were made up by ethnic Scots and ethnic Scandinavians per abt. 1900? And there my answer is: kind of 0.1%. Objections?

[Zohor]

Yes, you could see different Polish results in various threads, I don't know who tries to deny it. After centuries of Jews living in Poland there is some trace, it's obvious.
At the same time some regions will have smaller admixture than people who have ancestors from big cities for a few generations(which is rare case)

[Peterski]

Well I have 11% Eastern European on 23&me, which from their maps includes Poland. From my family history, I should be like 30% Polish, at least. I don't have any AJ or otherwise Jewish on my 23&me. So I guess this means that my eastern European is definitely not Jewish, but also why would my polish show up as a third of what it should? Does this mean my "polish" ancestors were not as indigenous to poland as other Poles? I'm told my polish ancestors look Scottish in blind classification, and I know that Scandinavians mingled with scots and also traveled to eastern Europe some time ago. Is this potentially a valid explanation?

23andMe tends to underestimate minor and distant ancestries. This probably also applies to AJ.

So if your Polish is a minor part of your ancestry, or distant in time, they could underestimate it.

[rothaer]

23andMe tends to underestimate minor and distant ancestries. This probably also applies to AJ.

So if your Polish is a minor part of your ancestry, or distant in time, they could underestimate it.

Well, it's about assigning along majority ancestries within every 100 SNP-block. Considering that the old GEDmatch threshold was 7 cm and 700 SNPs and it likely will have been of comparable size, we can (very) roughly equal 1 cM with 100 SNPs. So a 100 SNP-block in such a commercial test is approximately representing something like 1 cM just. This means that we are then talking about ancestry segments that are smaller than 1 cM. This is enormously small and reflects a very far back ancestry. I think it must be something like 1000 or 2000 years back to get a notable number of such small segments. More recent ancestry will not be notably affected by this 23andMe smoothing alogarithm.

This means that it must be irrelevant as for White Swan's "Polish" proportion.

This smoothing will also apply to AJ, yes. So minority "AJ" (was it existent at that time?) ancestry from Antiquity and the early Middle Ages can be smoothed away.

[Peterski]

It would be interesting to see White Swan's Eurogenes K15 Oracle results from GEDmatch.

If she really has 30% Polish then it should show as ca. 70% NW Euro + 30% Polish in Oracle.

[Abriekman]

One extreme in a claculator often evokes the counterpart for balancing and I think that this Serbian is much triggered by Erzya. I suggest to erase Erzya and provide just the two other components and we will see how much Serbian will be left.

I understand what you're talking about. In this case amount of Serbian-like doesn't change

https://i.imgur.com/ITc5hRP.png

[rothaer]

I understand what you're talking about. In this case amount of Serbian-like doesn't change

https://i.imgur.com/ITc5hRP.png

Okay, thanks! That was unexpected to me.

[Peterski]

I'm not sure if it makes sense to use Serbians in this comparison because Serbians are abt. 50% Slavic.

It would be better to use something like Greek_Deep_Mani perhaps:


Greek_Deep_Mani,0.1106252,0.1485574,-0.011152,-0.0442049,0.0119434,-0.0166139,0.0008952,-0.000989,0.0015582,0.0186748,0.0019332,0.0022052,-0.0026263,0.0046202,-0.013501,-0.0039461,0.0044454,0.0015564,0.0034178,-0.0042818,-0.006447,0.0014544,0.0002465,0.0001434,-0.0008668

[Figueiredo]

No, they don't have it.

[Abriekman]

I'm not sure if it makes sense to use Serbians in this comparison because Serbians are abt. 50% Slavic.

It would be better to use something like Greek_Deep_Mani perhaps:


Greek_Deep_Mani,0.1106252,0.1485574,-0.011152,-0.0442049,0.0119434,-0.0166139,0.0008952,-0.000989,0.0015582,0.0186748,0.0019332,0.0022052,-0.0026263,0.0046202,-0.013501,-0.0039461,0.0044454,0.0015564,0.0034178,-0.0042818,-0.006447,0.0014544,0.0002465,0.0001434,-0.0008668

I wanted to use Serbs instead of Greeks because Greek samples have some amount of Western Asian admixture, that Serbs don't have as much

I also added Ukrainian samples. Many people think that Ukrainians ( not talking about Lviv Ukrainians ) have much more Mediterranean admixture than other Eastern Slavs, however it isn't true because there are groups of Russians that have nearly the same amount of it.

Using Greek_Deep_Mani

https://i.imgur.com/slmpaSx.png

Using proto Albanian sample

https://i.imgur.com/16zqDg0.png

This means that some processes happened in the time from 6th to 21st century that genetically pulled Slavs, including Poles to the south.

[rothaer]

I wanted to use Serbs instead of Greeks because Greek samples have some amount of Western Asian admixture, that Serbs don't have as much

I also added Ukrainian samples. Many people think that Ukrainians ( not talking about Lviv Ukrainians ) have much more Mediterranean admixture than other Eastern Slavs, however it isn't true because there are groups of Russians that have nearly the same amount of it.

https://i.imgur.com/slmpaSx.png

This means that some processes happened in the time from 6th to 21st century that genetically pulled Slavs, including Poles to the south.

Maybe this proto Albanian that doesn't have any notable East Med is suitable:



ALB_MA_I13839,0.120652,0.151314,0.013953,-0.037468,0.030159,-0.012271,-0.001175,-0.001615,0.006136,0.025149,-0.004222,0.003897,-0.015609,0.002202,-0.019815,-0.007425,0.008605,0.006461,0.00817,-0.014257,-0.007112,0.002968,0.006039,-0.003735,-0.000599

[Katarzyna]

I think that the sample “Dutch” itself already contains some southerness which can swallow some AJ. This is particularly the case in north eastern Poles, especially Mazovians who score a lot of “Dutch” but no AJ.
Once you remove the Dutch sample it will be replaced with Danish and AJ.

Mariusz and the other Mazovian sample are good examples for it:
https://i.ibb.co/QmB3WpQ/IMG-2827.jpg (https://ibb.co/bdhM4Qm)
https://i.ibb.co/kxyw4Bb/IMG-2828.jpg (https://ibb.co/t4hvqKj)

[Varda]

Which migration?

Contact between Free Dacians and proto-Slavs in the modern western Ukraine (their contact zone). Vlach migration to Poland, Czechia and western Ukraine in the late middle age; southern Poles (especially Gorals), Rusyns, Hutsuls, Boykos, Lemkos and similar to them have Balkan admixture from late medieval Vlacj migrant (even their lifestyle is Vlachic in high degree). Migrations of various Balkanites in Russian empire on the territory of present day Ukraine in 18th and 19th century, in central Ukraine, Odesa, Kherson, Donbass etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cieszyn_Vlachs

A lot of Hutsuls, Boykos, Lemkos and Rusyns have Balkan look or they are shifted on that side.


https://youtu.be/8GlovLk3Ckc

[rothaer]

For example when using such a model with Early Medieval Poles and modern Poles, Ashkenazi is picked up (in addition to "extra" Germanic):

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

SOURCE:


Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska,0.1281648,0.1243262,0. 0755374,0.0691947,0.041923,0.0256997,0.0086249,0.0 124956,-0.0003477,-0.0262967,-0.002314,-0.0108129,0.017029,0.0221779,-0.008978,0.0013623,0.003742,-0.0012415,0.0037772,0.0000782,-0.0035406,-0.0054036,0.0074811,-0.0058562,0.0019818
Ashkenazi_Poland,0.1001169,0.1368425,-0.0073382,-0.0429994,0.0097966,-0.0154087,-0.0008812,-0.0008942,0.0081981,0.0142751,0.0011639,-0.0005932,0.0028802,0.0001662,-0.0041451,-0.001674,-0.0037648,3.18e-05,-0.0008065,-0.0040645,-0.0026776,-0.0022721,0.0016895,0.002169,0.0015267
Dutch,0.1274407,0.1341783,0.0602712,0.0440759,0.04 08435,0.0163974,0.0054023,0.0072633,0.0042087,0.00 19245,-0.0056347,0.0044274,-0.0098456,-0.0086761,0.01783,0.0056231,-0.0065161,0.0017477,0.0039087,0.0028161,0.00448,0. 0033848,-5.1e-06,0.0138921,-0.0006557
Danish,0.1312479,0.1350654,0.0663779,0.0524377,0.0 413029,0.0194569,0.0051584,0.0074014,0.0034365,-0.002558,-0.0053588,0.0034802,-0.0085067,-0.0070935,0.0186691,0.0061171,-0.0065193,0.0020474,0.0032402,0.0043462,0.0056397, 0.0024349,0.0006923,0.013774,0.0002011

TARGET:


Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0 406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.8607% / 0.00860695
79.8 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
13.6 Danish
6.6 Ashkenazi_Poland

What do you think about this? Is this real or should I use another "southern" population? What is the source of "southern" admixture in Poles?

Interesting is maybe this if we refer to what real immigrants there may have been:

Source:



Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska,0.1281648,0.1243262,0. 0755374,0.0691947,0.041923,0.0256997,0.0086249,0.0 124956,-0.0003477,-0.0262967,-0.002314,-0.0108129,0.017029,0.0221779,-0.008978,0.0013623,0.003742,-0.0012415,0.0037772,0.0000782,-0.0035406,-0.0054036,0.0074811,-0.0058562,0.0019818
Ashkenazi_Germany,0.0973188,0.1423773,-0.014406,-0.0499358,0.010925,-0.0187694,-0.001974,-0.0017538,0.0098579,0.0188432,0.0039622,-0.0011239,0.0025123,-0.0026699,-0.0050489,0.0030892,0.0022035,-0.0016977,-0.0007794,-0.0011255,-0.0033441,-0.0026957,0.0008751,0.0013857,0.0008143
German,0.1302626,0.1373792,0.0579811,0.0387068,0.0 400035,0.0156461,0.0040665,0.0057865,0.003526,0.00 188,-0.0044133,0.0023732,-0.0053706,-0.0025417,0.0085125,0.0032913,-0.0032728,0.0016631,0.0033669,0.0017191,0.00314,0. 002005,7.18e-05,0.0083052,0.0002774


Target:



Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0 406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05


Target: Polish
Distance: 0.7478% / 0.00747807
76.8 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
20.2 German
3.0 Ashkenazi_Germany

[Peterski]

^^^ I think you used unscaled coordinates for Ashkenazi_Germany and German. These are the scaled coordinates:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZr-UOve0KUKo_Qbgeo27m-CQncZWb8y/view


Ashkenazi_Germany,0.0973188,0.1423773,-0.014406,-0.0499358,0.010925,-0.0187694,-0.001974,-0.0017538,0.0098579,0.0188432,0.0039622,-0.0011239,0.0025123,-0.0026699,-0.0050489,0.0030892,0.0022035,-0.0016977,-0.0007794,-0.0011255,-0.0033441,-0.0026957,0.0008751,0.0013857,0.0008143
German,0.1302626,0.1373792,0.0579811,0.0387068,0.0 400035,0.0156461,0.0040665,0.0057865,0.003526,0.00 188,-0.0044133,0.0023732,-0.0053706,-0.0025417,0.0085125,0.0032913,-0.0032728,0.0016631,0.0033669,0.0017191,0.00314,0. 002005,7.18e-05,0.0083052,0.0002774

[rothaer]

^^^ I think you used unscaled coordinates for Ashkenazi_Germany and German. These are the scaled coordinates:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wZr-UOve0KUKo_Qbgeo27m-CQncZWb8y/view


Ashkenazi_Germany,0.0973188,0.1423773,-0.014406,-0.0499358,0.010925,-0.0187694,-0.001974,-0.0017538,0.0098579,0.0188432,0.0039622,-0.0011239,0.0025123,-0.0026699,-0.0050489,0.0030892,0.0022035,-0.0016977,-0.0007794,-0.0011255,-0.0033441,-0.0026957,0.0008751,0.0013857,0.0008143
German,0.1302626,0.1373792,0.0579811,0.0387068,0.0 400035,0.0156461,0.0040665,0.0057865,0.003526,0.00 188,-0.0044133,0.0023732,-0.0053706,-0.0025417,0.0085125,0.0032913,-0.0032728,0.0016631,0.0033669,0.0017191,0.00314,0. 002005,7.18e-05,0.0083052,0.0002774

Fixed it, thanks!

And it has a new interesting result.

[White Swan]

23andMe tends to underestimate minor and distant ancestries. This probably also applies to AJ.

So if your Polish is a minor part of your ancestry, or distant in time, they could underestimate it.

I see, is this what your visitor message was about? The thing is, my polish ancestry is quite recent, I am a Bembenek. My father is half French, half polish, great grandparents both polish, and my great great grandparents before that. And on my maternal side my great grandmother is also full polish. I did calculations based on advice a while back, should be 30% or so polish. What would you say? Thanks

[Melkiirs]

I see, is this what your visitor message was about? The thing is, my polish ancestry is quite recent, I am a Bembenek. My father is half French, half polish, great grandparents both polish, and my great great grandparents before that. And on my maternal side my great grandmother is also full polish. I did calculations based on advice a while back, should be 30% or so polish. What would you say? Thanks

Is the reason you have only 15% Eastern Europe in your profile ethnicity because some of your family in Prussian Poland were ethnic Germans?

[White Swan]

Well, it's about assigning along majority ancestries within every 100 SNP-block. Considering that the old GEDmatch threshold was 7 cm and 700 SNPs and it likely will have been of comparable size, we can (very) roughly equal 1 cM with 100 SNPs. So a 100 SNP-block in such a commercial test is approximately representing something like 1 cM just. This means that we are then talking about ancestry segments that are smaller than 1 cM. This is enormously small and reflects a very far back ancestry. I think it must be something like 1000 or 2000 years back to get a notable number of such small segments. More recent ancestry will not be notably affected by this 23andMe smoothing alogarithm.

This means that it must be irrelevant as for White Swan's "Polish" proportion.

This smoothing will also apply to AJ, yes. So minority "AJ" (was it existent at that time?) ancestry from Antiquity and the early Middle Ages can be smoothed away.

I didn't understand anything you just said haha. What is your opinion in layman's terms, if you please?

Were you the one who helped me roughly calculate my polish ancestry based on family history many months ago? If so, thank you, I'm sorry I just can't remember that.

[White Swan]

No.

Kind of 99.9% of NW Europeans going to Poland were Germans, so there is no reason to assume a more "exotic" NW European.

I see three possible explanations:

1. You had ancestors "from Poland" which were in the family lore misinterpreted as Poles and were in fact (Eastern) Germans. That would fit well to the EE proportion.
2. Ethnic Poles do score some 77% - 100% EE at 23andMe. You could simply have inherited less from these 30% of ancestors.
3. Your 30% information is wrong. I'm not sure what actual genealogical conditions cause you to end up having 30% Polish ancestry. It's an unusual proportion.

Thanks for your interpretation, does it mean anything that I now know my polish ancestors were from prussia/Poznan? I don't know if that means anything

[White Swan]

It would be interesting to see White Swan's Eurogenes K15 Oracle results from GEDmatch.

If she really has 30% Polish then it should show as ca. 70% NW Euro + 30% Polish in Oracle.

I should have read through this thread, my apologies for the confusion. Is this the information that would help?

[meliton]

A lot of Hutsuls, Boykos, Lemkos and Rusyns have Balkan look or they are shifted on that side.

Yes, that's what I ment about carpathian people and descendents of white croats. But Hutsuls aren't Vlach.
The Vlach migration mostly and nearly only influence the culture in the Carpathian folk (Gorals, Rusyns, Szekler, Moldovan Hungarians etc.) IMO.

[Zohor]

I see, is this what your visitor message was about? The thing is, my polish ancestry is quite recent, I am a Bembenek. My father is half French, half polish, great grandparents both polish, and my great great grandparents before that. And on my maternal side my great grandmother is also full polish. I did calculations based on advice a while back, should be 30% or so polish. What would you say? Thanks

Interesting, still such lower results are possible due to random inheriting of some genes, which is unlikely but not impossible

You know we get around a half of each parent genetic material but that doesn't mean we got genetically around a quarter of each grandparent. Keep in mind I am not into genetics and it's more of my hypothesis

[White Swan]

Interesting, still such lower results are possible due to random inheriting of some genes, which is unlikely but not impossible

You know we get around a half of each parent genetic material but that doesn't mean we got genetically around a quarter of each grandparent. Keep in mind I am not into genetics and it's more of my hypothesis

Yes, I've seen that brought up, I know it's possible yet not likely like you said, thanks. I would just like to get the most enriched opinions I can and go from there. I'm into genetics also, just not enough at the time at least to know all this lol

[Varda]

Yes, that's what I ment about carpathian people and descendents of white croats. But Hutsuls aren't Vlach.
The Vlach migration mostly and nearly only influence the culture in the Carpathian folk (Gorals, Rusyns, Szekler, Moldovan Hungarians etc.) IMO.

Carpathian Slavs are not Vlachs, but they are only East Slavs together with some people from Odesa with significant Balkan admixture. Balkan genes in Carpathians Slavs are from Vlachs who migrated to northeastern Carpathians from Transylvania in the late middle age and mixed with local Slavs. According to some researches Rusyns have 25-35% paleo-Balkanic E1b1b1a2 haplogroup https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Русины#По_гаплогруппе_Y-хромосомы_ДНК_человека

[Peterski]

I should have read through this thread, my apologies for the confusion. Is this the information that would help? MP7442257

Can you post your full 23andMe results?

In Eurogenes K13 Oracle in one of iterations you score 25% Ukrainian Lviv (but generally it looks like you have also some South European admixture):

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.3% Southwest_English + 26.7% Moldavian @ 5.5
2 73.6% Irish + 26.4% Moldavian @ 5.66
3 72.4% Southwest_English + 27.6% Croatian @ 5.71
4 75% Southwest_English + 25% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.81
5 70.9% West_Scottish + 29.1% Moldavian @ 5.95
6 57% Southwest_English + 43% East_German @ 5.98
7 81.2% Southwest_English + 18.8% Tatar @ 6.01
8 73% Irish + 27% Croatian @ 6.03
9 56% Southwest_English + 44% Austrian @ 6.04
10 84.1% Swedish + 15.9% Sardinian @ 6.08
11 56.1% Irish + 43.9% Austrian @ 6.09
12 76.6% Southwest_English + 23.4% Ukrainian @ 6.13
13 67.2% Swedish + 32.8% Southwest_French @ 6.16
14 74% Irish + 26% Serbian @ 6.21
15 57.3% Irish + 42.7% East_German @ 6.21
16 82.8% Southwest_English + 17.2% Erzya @ 6.23
17 76.9% Irish + 23.1% Romanian @ 6.24
18 84.9% Norwegian + 15.1% Sardinian @ 6.27
19 79.2% Irish + 20.8% Bulgarian @ 6.28
20 67.7% Southwest_English + 32.3% Hungarian @ 6.29

[White Swan]

Can you post your full 23andMe results?

In Eurogenes K13 Oracle in one of iterations you score 25% Ukrainian Lviv (but generally it looks like you have also some South European admixture):

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.3% Southwest_English + 26.7% Moldavian @ 5.5
2 73.6% Irish + 26.4% Moldavian @ 5.66
3 72.4% Southwest_English + 27.6% Croatian @ 5.71
4 75% Southwest_English + 25% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.81
5 70.9% West_Scottish + 29.1% Moldavian @ 5.95
6 57% Southwest_English + 43% East_German @ 5.98
7 81.2% Southwest_English + 18.8% Tatar @ 6.01
8 73% Irish + 27% Croatian @ 6.03
9 56% Southwest_English + 44% Austrian @ 6.04
10 84.1% Swedish + 15.9% Sardinian @ 6.08
11 56.1% Irish + 43.9% Austrian @ 6.09
12 76.6% Southwest_English + 23.4% Ukrainian @ 6.13
13 67.2% Swedish + 32.8% Southwest_French @ 6.16
14 74% Irish + 26% Serbian @ 6.21
15 57.3% Irish + 42.7% East_German @ 6.21
16 82.8% Southwest_English + 17.2% Erzya @ 6.23
17 76.9% Irish + 23.1% Romanian @ 6.24
18 84.9% Norwegian + 15.1% Sardinian @ 6.27
19 79.2% Irish + 20.8% Bulgarian @ 6.28
20 67.7% Southwest_English + 32.3% Hungarian @ 6.29

This is my 23&me; they gave me .5% southern European. I've been told not to pay much credence to anything 5% or less.
122555
122556

And what does this mixed mode population sharing mean?

[ASB1]

Jews aren't from the Balkans they are from Jordan

[Dušan]

For example when using such a model with Early Medieval Poles and modern Poles, Ashkenazi is picked up (in addition to "extra" Germanic):

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

SOURCE:


Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska,0.1281648,0.1243262,0. 0755374,0.0691947,0.041923,0.0256997,0.0086249,0.0 124956,-0.0003477,-0.0262967,-0.002314,-0.0108129,0.017029,0.0221779,-0.008978,0.0013623,0.003742,-0.0012415,0.0037772,0.0000782,-0.0035406,-0.0054036,0.0074811,-0.0058562,0.0019818
Ashkenazi_Poland,0.1001169,0.1368425,-0.0073382,-0.0429994,0.0097966,-0.0154087,-0.0008812,-0.0008942,0.0081981,0.0142751,0.0011639,-0.0005932,0.0028802,0.0001662,-0.0041451,-0.001674,-0.0037648,3.18e-05,-0.0008065,-0.0040645,-0.0026776,-0.0022721,0.0016895,0.002169,0.0015267
Dutch,0.1274407,0.1341783,0.0602712,0.0440759,0.04 08435,0.0163974,0.0054023,0.0072633,0.0042087,0.00 19245,-0.0056347,0.0044274,-0.0098456,-0.0086761,0.01783,0.0056231,-0.0065161,0.0017477,0.0039087,0.0028161,0.00448,0. 0033848,-5.1e-06,0.0138921,-0.0006557
Danish,0.1312479,0.1350654,0.0663779,0.0524377,0.0 413029,0.0194569,0.0051584,0.0074014,0.0034365,-0.002558,-0.0053588,0.0034802,-0.0085067,-0.0070935,0.0186691,0.0061171,-0.0065193,0.0020474,0.0032402,0.0043462,0.0056397, 0.0024349,0.0006923,0.013774,0.0002011

TARGET:


Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0 406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05

Target: Polish
Distance: 0.8607% / 0.00860695
79.8 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
13.6 Danish
6.6 Ashkenazi_Poland

What do you think about this? Is this real or should I use another "southern" population? What is the source of "southern" admixture in Poles?




Big distance, they are not good proxy for old Balkan population.

Although percentage big as fuck. :eek:

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 3.4524% / 0.03452432
60.8 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
39.2 Ashkenazi_Poland



I'm not sure if it makes sense to use Serbians in this comparison because Serbians are abt. 50% Slavic.

It would be better to use something like Greek_Deep_Mani perhaps:


Greek_Deep_Mani,0.1106252,0.1485574,-0.011152,-0.0442049,0.0119434,-0.0166139,0.0008952,-0.000989,0.0015582,0.0186748,0.0019332,0.0022052,-0.0026263,0.0046202,-0.013501,-0.0039461,0.0044454,0.0015564,0.0034178,-0.0042818,-0.006447,0.0014544,0.0002465,0.0001434,-0.0008668



Better distance with Greek Deep Mani

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.9479% / 0.02947864
60.0 Early_Medieval_Wielkopolska
40.0 Greek_Deep_Mani

[ASB1]

This guy is probably half Jew normal Poles plot with Lithuanian


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 East_German @ 4.473775
2 Austrian @ 6.709229
3 Hungarian @ 8.081617
4 Croatian @ 11.226007
5 South_Polish @ 11.677340
6 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 13.438689
7 North_Swedish @ 13.440350
8 West_German @ 13.997615
9 Ukrainian @ 14.097913
10 Moldavian @ 14.116227
11 North_German @ 14.215571
12 Polish @ 14.736976
13 South_Dutch @ 14.787238
14 Swedish @ 15.007941
15 Southwest_Finnish @ 15.248878
16 Serbian @ 16.096821
17 Danish @ 16.681833
18 North_Dutch @ 17.169346
19 Norwegian @ 17.621761
20 Southeast_English @ 18.073515

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.266800 my result

[cass]

A very questionable thesis. I tested all Polish regional modern samples vs Polish ancient samples, adding 4 Ashkenazis and 3 early Neolithics from other areas of Europe. The effect, only in 2 samples, in the most GAC region - Kujawy, appears the alleged admixture of AJ.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?390640-Polish-Lithuanian-test

Target: PL_52°37′N_18°10′E_Kuyavia
Distance: 0.8011% / 0.00801110
22.6 Poland_Plonsk_MA
11.6 Poland_Krakow_MA
11.6 Poland_Santok_MA
10.2 Poland_Ostrow_Lednicki_MA
8.2 Poland_Konskie_MA
7.4 Poland_LBK_Late_N
7.0 Poland_Lad_MA
4.8 Poland_Lad_MA_oWestEurope
4.0 Poland_Maslomecz_IA
3.2 Poland_Bodzia_VA
1.6 Poland_Legowo_MA
1.6 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA
1.4 Poland_GlobularAmphora
1.4 Poland_Viking.SG
1.0 Ashkenazi_Austria
1.0 Lithuania_Marvele_Roman.SG
0.8 Poland_Kowalewko_IA
0.6 Poland_Rumin_MA

Target: PolishL_Kuyavia1
Distance: 0.8013% / 0.00801277
22.8 Poland_Plonsk_MA
11.4 Poland_Krakow_MA
11.4 Poland_Santok_MA
9.8 Poland_Ostrow_Lednicki_MA
9.0 Poland_Konskie_MA
7.6 Poland_LBK_Late_N
6.8 Poland_Lad_MA
4.8 Poland_Lad_MA_oWestEurope
3.6 Poland_Bodzia_VA
3.2 Poland_Maslomecz_IA
1.6 Poland_Legowo_MA
1.4 Poland_GlobularAmphora
1.4 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA
1.2 Poland_Viking.SG
0.8 Lithuania_Marvele_Roman.SG
0.8 Poland_BellBeaker
0.8 Poland_Kowalewko_IA
0.8 Poland_Rumin_MA
0.6 Ashkenazi_Austria
0.2 Poland_Mierzanowice_EBA

[cass]

Surplus Neolithic levels appear only in samples with an evidently late Germanic admixture.

Target: PL_54°41′N_17°21′E_Slovincian
Distance: 1.5772% / 0.01577235
18.2 Lithuania_Marvele_Roman.SG
14.4 Poland_Kowalewko_IA
13.4 Poland_Lad_MA
11.4 Poland_Weklice_WielbarkCulture_Roman.SG
8.0 Greece_Peloponnese_N
8.0 Poland_Markowice_MA
7.6 Poland_Santok_MA
6.6 Poland_Dziekanowice_22_MA
6.2 Lithuania_BA
5.6 Lithuania_Bailuliai_BarrowCulture.SG
0.4 Poland_Plonsk_MA
0.2 Poland_Krakow_MA


https://i.ibb.co/CJfrKs7/Zrzut-ekranu-5-12-2024-23399-vahaduo-github-io.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZH0Zz18)

[cass]

If we use all available Polish samples, we can detect an admixture of AJ in 10 samples. However, I suspect that if additional European samples are used, the AJ admixture level will further decrease from 0.7%.



The sample with the highest presumed percentage of AJ is clearly the sample shifted towards Austria.

Target: Polish:Polish20
Distance: 1.3190% / 0.01319037
30.6 Poland_Lad_MA
15.2 Ashkenazi_Austria
11.4 Poland_Rumin_MA
9.8 Poland_Legowo_MA
9.4 Poland_Legowo_MA_oBaltic
7.4 Poland_Wilczyce_GlobularAmphora.SG
7.2 Poland_Bodzia_VA
4.8 Poland_Globular_Amphora
3.8 Poland_Pruszcz_Gdanski_IA
0.4 Poland_Cedynia_MA

Distance to: Polish:Polish20
0.03534957 Poland_Niemcza_MA:PCA0146__AD_950__Cov_17.03%
0.03966611 Poland_Niemcza_MA:PCA0143__AD_950__Cov_35.02%
0.04092189 Austrian
0.04204095 Poland_Lad_MA:PCA0187__AD_1100__Cov_16.32%
0.04517115 German
0.04597900 Poland_Niemcza_MA:PCA0122__AD_950__Cov_32.59%
0.04671428 Poland_Lad_MA:PCA0191__AD_1100__Cov_13.12%
0.04894953 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz712__BC_1326__Cov_23.43%
0.04912408 Poland_Ostrow_Lednicki_MA:PCA0339__AD_1100__Cov_38 .61%
0.04992770 Poland_Viking.SG:VK154_noUDG.SG__AD_1000__Cov_90.3 9%
0.05029774 Poland_Niemcza_MA:PCA0124__AD_950__Cov_43.78%
0.05041498 Poland_Maslomecz_IA_oEastEurope:PCA0103__AD_300__C ov_74.27%
0.05048227 Poland_Markowice_MA:PCA0158__AD_1100__Cov_30.41%
0.05048918 Poland_Viking.SG:VK157_noUDG.SG__AD_1000__Cov_47.3 0%
0.05056651 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz720__BC_1268__Cov_46.60%
0.05088057 Poland_Lad_MA:PCA0197__AD_1100__Cov_16.69%
0.05095568 Poland_Viking.SG:VK494_noUDG.SG__AD_1000__Cov_12.5 1%
0.05104278 Poland_Lad_MA:PCA0198__AD_1100__Cov_22.83%
0.05137268 Poland_Ostrow_Lednicki_MA:PCA0332__AD_1100__Cov_25 .61%
0.05177388 Poland_Bodzia_VA:VK155__AD_1000__Cov_20.85%
0.05240022 Poland_Santok_MA:PCA0426__AD_1100__Cov_11.83%
0.05324392 Poland_Konskie_MA:PCA0309__AD_1100__Cov_18.32%
0.05336755 Poland_Poznan_MA:PCA0549__AD_1100__Cov_11.03%
0.05370722 Poland_Lad_MA:PCA0194__AD_1100__Cov_41.11%
0.05441791 Poland_Santok_MA_oEEF:PCA0411__AD_1100__Cov_10.46%



The conclusion is that either there are no detectable AJ admixtures or G25 is not the right tool for such tests.

[ASB1]

Run all European samples and compare them to Ashkenazi Jews. Run English samples in Leads which is a Jewish area or Hattern Gardens in London which is an old Jewish area in London.

'polish samples' with Ashkenazi Jews in their geographic areas might have residue Ashkenazi Jewish heritage.

Polish samples that are actually ethnically white cluster with fellow Baltic whites like Lithuanians and Latvians.

West Slavs have nothing to do with sand nigger Jews. All Slavs have nothing to do with sand Nigger Jews.

Hitler was a Austrian citizen, he was the Charceler of Germany, his grandfather was Jewish. Hitler is derived from the ASHKENAZI Heidler.

Winston Churchill's was an American Jew called 'Jacobson'

The British royal family is a German Jewish family.

Everything about their politics is Jewish. Their current prime minister is a Masonic Jew, with a Jewish wife who visits synagogue

[cass]

Run all European samples and compare them to Ashkenazi Jews. Run English samples in Leads which is a Jewish area or Hattern Gardens in London which is an old Jewish area in London.

'polish samples' with Ashkenazi Jews in their geographic areas might have residue Ashkenazi Jewish heritage.

Polish samples that are actually ethnically white cluster with fellow Baltic whites like Lithuanians and Latvians.

West Slavs have nothing to do with sand nigger Jews. All Slavs have nothing to do with sand Nigger Jews.

Hitler was a Austrian citizen, he was the Charceler of Germany, his grandfather was Jewish. Hitler is derived from the ASHKENAZI Heidler.

Winston Churchill's was an American Jew called 'Jacobson'

The British royal family is a German Jewish family.

Everything about their politics is Jewish. Their current prime minister is a Masonic Jew, with a Jewish wife who visits synagogue

You sure are crazy, man. Chill out.

[ASB1]

You're crazy. Why feed into the Anglo perception why use isolated samples.

[cass]

You're crazy. Why feed into the Anglo perception why use isolated samples.


LOL, if you don't use isolated single samples, you won't notice the alleged admixtures at all.

[ASB1]

Yes so why use the fact there are any samples to do with Poland? Ashkenazi Jews live in Poland that doesn't make them Polish.

Anglo snow Niggers like him use it as an insentive to weaponize his perception on Slavs.

England has been a Jew island for centuries, AS Germany also.

Slavic nationalists hate sand nigger Jews. My samples cluster with Lithuanians and Latvians, ethnic white Poles will do that

[cass]

...

Contemporary England or Germany is so racially and ethnically diverse that the addition of AJ is an insignificant permille.

https://i.ibb.co/Jc73fW6/vq5kde6vb2aa1.jpg (https://ibb.co/qDsJtLq)

[Voskos]

Southern admixture in Poland:

Target: Polish
Distance: 1.2039% / 0.01203920
57.6 Lithuania_Marvele_Roman.SG
24.6 Poland_BellBeaker
17.4 Italy_Imperial.SG
0.4 Nganasan

[ASB1]

Because they allow Jews to control their politics and establishment. Have done for over 1,000 years

Here's two tier Keir with his swarthy Mongoloid Jew wife.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2024/06/10/TELEMMGLPICT000272946226_17180206907890_trans_NvBQ zQNjv4Bqup0YjarfMwKCDCmaDlgwDuOzfp6kKDFQNFglWjASxz U.jpeg?imwidth=350

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14095795/keir-starmer-father-southport-killer-axel-rudakubana-asylum-case-downing-street.html

The British public trying to be pathetic and say their prime minister knew nothing about that Axel's guy father and the stabbing. They literally allow Nigger criminals and their family to the UK, with their NWO Jew Prime Minister.

Then they have racial riots raising the St George next to the Israeli flag

[cass]

Southern admixture in Poland:

Target: Polish
Distance: 1.2039% / 0.01203920
57.6 Lithuania_Marvele_Roman.SG
24.6 Poland_BellBeaker
17.4 Italy_Imperial.SG
0.4 Nganasan

It's very likely.
https://i.ibb.co/ccBTsgW/cass-K4b-Ixbj.png (https://ibb.co/99DYd8x)
https://i.ibb.co/y5JSDgk/cass-admix-merged.png (https://ibb.co/k0F1pqD)