Ladislaus I of Hungary on G25

[axlredneck]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/King_St._Ladislaus.jpg

SZTL, Ladislaus I

Y-DNA: R-SUR51>ARP11 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-SUR51/)
mtDNA: H1u2 (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H1u2/)
Dynasty: Árpád
Period: Kingdom of Hungary
Age: 1040 - 1095 CE


Ladislaus I was King of Hungary from 1077 and King of Croatia from 1091. He was the second son of King Béla I of Hungary and Richeza (or Adelaide) of Poland.

[axlredneck]

SZTL_scaled,0.117238,0.091398,0.052797,0.046189,0. 01908,0.013945,0.007285,0.006461,-0.004909,-0.011663,-0.000812,-0.001798,-0.001933,0.004404,0.00475,0.004773,0.007562,-0.003294,0.004274,0.005753,-0.002371,0.002597,0.000863,-0.005904,-0.002036
https://i.ibb.co/jLXVD3C/20230804-143425.jpg

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/vCFLQBx/20230804-143728.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/BNLQ1fY/20230804-143447.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/wBCSyrZ/20230804-143622.jpg


SZTL_scaled,0.117238,0.091398,0.052797,0.046189,0. 01908,0.013945,0.007285,0.006461,-0.004909,-0.011663,-0.000812,-0.001798,-0.001933,0.004404,0.00475,0.004773,0.007562,-0.003294,0.004274,0.005753,-0.002371,0.002597,0.000863,-0.005904,-0.002036
Pannonian,0.1292045,0.1343144,0.0539422,0.0441691, 0.0349974,0.0177205,0.0079892,0.0094004,-0.0031598,-0.0108747,-0.002031,-0.0016384,0.0005914,0.0084073,-0.0006796,0.0012699,0.0070871,-0.0021342,0.0015055,0.0027794,0.0028651,-0.0018091,0.003775,-0.0066788,0.0011044
Magyar,0.0857739,-0.1156978,0.0614975,0.0476886,-0.0436564,0.0023308,-1.68e-05,0.0017966,-0.0115701,-0.0231569,-0.0103812,-0.0020339,0.0017628,-0.0228651,0.0151036,0.0060612,-0.0051316,-0.0009772,-0.0011851,0.0055919,-0.0200629,0.0044691,-0.0008627,0.0018419,-0.0020101
Noise,-2.205875059,-0.32286082,-1.153303034,0.758481125,-1.316783424,-0.57729474,0.328393195,-0.821580379,-0.17129462,0.626680085,1.308885779,-0.04821644,-1.360006219,0.63363886,1.388331639,1.350350734,1.2 70907864,-0.679222205,1.611765889,1.253329424,-0.68923288,1.673872074,-1.062658219,-0.335017605,-1.307477584

[axlredneck]

Autosomal ancestry confirms Y-DNA.

[Demirkazık]

Is it possible for Magyars to be Turkic, they somewhat seem like a separate Turkic branch (Oghur) with a language shift.

Target: Demirkazık_scaled
Distance: 2.5978% / 0.02597813
40.6 Anatolian
28.2 Magyar
25.4 Iran_Hasanlu_IA
5.8 Georgian

[Peterski]

He was 1/4 Polish after his grandfather Mieszko II.

He is also on GEDmatch, kit number - KJ9269628

=====

Eurogenes K15 Oracle:

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Nogay + Norwegian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 4.576687

[axlredneck]

Is it possible for Magyars to be Turkic, they somewhat seem like a separate Turkic branch (Oghur) with a language shift.

Target: Demirkazık_scaled
Distance: 2.5978% / 0.02597813
40.6 Anatolian
28.2 Magyar
25.4 Iran_Hasanlu_IA
5.8 Georgian

Attaboy! You got it right! They're Bulgars with significant Ugric and minor Caucasus ancestries; they're the siblings of Volga Bulgars who were Bulgars with significant Volga Finn ancestry.

[axlredneck]

He is also on GEDmatch, kit number - KJ9269628

Dodecad K12b result:

Gedrosia 8.38 Pct
Siberian 5.35 Pct
Northwest_African 0.17 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 23.19 Pct
North_European 44.16 Pct
South_Asian 1.71 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 1.45 Pct
East_Asian 1.02 Pct
Caucasus 13.83 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.73 Pct

[Gallop]

I get a result. In my father's chromosome 16 and 21 as I have looked in chromosynthesis of YoudnaPortal it has to do with the Urals and chr 16 with farmers as farmers from the Alps and farmers from Greece have appeared in YdnaP. :rolleyes:


Mine
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdlGm1ehyLhZOpGhU-6yFak-0U_Rz0WM0LlxUJzJ1EelvRnS9boAKVc53dn9jMwmkd93bb7a9h axUPry1UMFB_OrXhRj6pMhB663vCrgTgLPesIOP7MQn3GIQK_2 ju8E_YFFzZIaJCGEmDY85BgJr_qlA_0BkvHHiJUYHBRWs_itpy-WDXb5wYsiRyVqA/s819/Ladislaol.jpeg
Father (FTDNA)
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgycXZ4MISQEV0ANy4vd0l4JpvKiwZphl_caZCRGq7iy_ wJk8M7yJolFMJqJw8GLsXL1jlIcm7x2e1OaGFKlK5in0Xcdq-LyqCW2-fmcBICb6dlfXFyWs2sCPbDyZsMGtWkXqoShDn-WVgAulCgUc-UToCw_fi1WFOPzxjBoIxn3jFPtLINkdpBGqcrs4o/s795/Ladislaol.jpeg
Fater (23andMe)
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhLVLOKooLN4ASDaLWyIwPe21Q6y9r2WKdVcfqbOf36PI 2tpkZw8sRdnBQmoFXDQ9upsxrrK8NwzrQqtw7-7n1GN-NvlOlCvK-7gsKv_PDLiFNlFkMm6zw0bGzMNLYVjz8PQtOhR43l5qe9unz3m gtHqgL_hpR2sEIi6XdyVYN3RF36aTb42-LDbwI910E/s792/Ladislaol23andMe.jpeg

[oszkar07]

Attaboy! You got it right! They're Bulgars with significant Ugric and minor Caucasus ancestries; they're the siblings of Volga Bulgars who were Bulgars with significant Volga Finn ancestry.

I would not be suprised if Hungarian speakers came into Pannonia in the 600 hundreds with the Bulgars and broke off from the Bulgar horde and settled in Hungary. When Arpad came in 9th century there was probably recognition of the Hungarian speakers as a kin people, even if Arpad's folk may have been perhaps more Turkic influenced at that time.
In any case I believe Hungarian was spoken in Pannonia for more than only 100 years prior to Hungary becoming a Christian Kingdom in 1000 AD.

[axlredneck]

I would not be suprised if Hungarian speakers came into Pannonia in the 600 hundreds with the Bulgars and broke off from the Bulgar horde and settled in Hungary. When Arpad came in 9th century there was probably recognition of the Hungarian speakers as a kin people, even if Arpad's folk may have been perhaps more Turkic influenced at that time.
In any case I believe Hungarian was spoken in Pannonia for more than only 100 years prior to Hungary becoming a Christian Kingdom in 1000 AD.

Oh no, you're mistaken! These Bulgars are the Bulgars of Kotrag, son of Kubrat, who first migrated to the Volga and southern Urals, mixed with the Ugric natives of Kushnarenkovo and Karajakupovo cultures, and later migrated to Pannonia in the late 9th century. Magyars in 6th century Pannonia—I don't think that's plausible!

[axlredneck]

even if Arpad's folk may have been perhaps more Turkic influenced at that time.


I'd like to make a difference between the nomadic commoners and elites here. The commoners were a motley crew of nations, which included Bulgars, Ugrics, and Caucasus folks brought to the Urals by the Bulgars. The nomadic elites that later became kings in Hungary were exclusively Bulgar, and Arpads are one of them.

[axlredneck]

Bulgars gave Hungarians their kings; Ugrics gave their language.

[axlredneck]

...

[Luke35]

Here's kind of an interesting thing, this is the king's closest relative on GEDmatch, I see that they share a fairly robust 35 cM.


This is the guy's admix:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 33.07
2 Baltic 32.56
3 West_Med 13.8
4 East_Med 11.25
5 West_Asian 4.68
6 South_Asian 2.19
7 East_Asian 1.09
8 Amerindian 0.86
9 Oceanian 0.3
10 Northeast_African 0.21

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.59
2 East_German 5.99
3 Austrian 6.02
4 Croatian 7.09
5 Moldavian 9.11
6 Serbian 9.59
7 South_Polish 10.26
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.47
9 Ukrainian 12.07
10 West_German 13.03
11 Romanian 13.8
12 Polish 13.81
13 South_Dutch 14.29
14 North_German 14.94
15 North_Swedish 15.18
16 Southwest_Finnish 16.11
17 Southwest_Russian 16.13
18 Bulgarian 16.44
19 Swedish 16.54
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.66

[oszkar07]

Oh no, you're mistaken! These Bulgars are the Bulgars of Kotrag, son of Kubrat, who first migrated to the Volga and southern Urals, mixed with the Ugric natives of Kushnarenkovo and Karajakupovo cultures, and later migrated to Pannonia in the late 9th century. Magyars in 6th century Pannonia—I don't think that's plausible!

well it is something we can't prove or disprove, its not as if there is a plethora of written sources from 7th century on the region.
Yes we have heard about Gepids,Huns,Avar's but not in great detail.
We don't even have hard evidence as to the language spoken by Huns-Avars- we have speculations based om DNA studies perhaps but we know that does not always indicate with certainty language spoken.
Some theories report there was more than one migration of Avars and that the 2nd wave may have been Hungarian speakers. I recall reading an article somewhere proposing idea Ugric speakers travelled with
the Bulgars in the 7th century, that those speakers could have been Hungarian speakers. Dual conquest theory suggests Hungarian speakers were in Pannonia much earlier than Arpads arrival.

[axlredneck]

Other Arpads in the clade:
https://i.ibb.co/yWsSYmw/20230804-214103.jpg

[axlredneck]

Interesting!

https://www.behance.net/gallery/21704805/King-St-Ladislaus-cranial-and-facial-reconstruction

[Demirkazık]

My paternal cousin, descendants of the R-Z2125. :fhhorse:

[Luke35]

Interesting!

https://www.behance.net/gallery/21704805/King-St-Ladislaus-cranial-and-facial-reconstruction

Very cool. Seems to be a Dinaric type.

[axlredneck]

My paternal cousin, descendants of the R-Z2125. :fhhorse:

CONGRATZ! ✨

[Zanzibar]

Dang, he has high East Asian (not as in literal "East Asian" but the Mongoloid race) blood that modern Hungarians can only envy!

[axlredneck]

Found this on Reddit
https://i.ibb.co/H4kVxFT/RDT-20240628-1940264496331855876860243.png

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Hungary_Árpád_Ladislaus_I:SZTL__AD_1040__Cov_99.94 %,0.117238,0.092413,0.050157,0.046835,0.020311,0.0 15618,0.00611,0.008307,-0.006136,-0.011845,0.001461,-0.00015,-0.002825,0.003716,0.002443,0.004508,0.009388,-0.004561,0.005154,0.006628,-0.003244,0.003462,0.001356,-0.008073,-0.002754


Distance to: Hungary_Árpád_Ladislaus_I:SZTL__AD_1040__Cov_99.94 %
0.02257019 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:HMSZ-50.SG__AD_929__Cov_67.74%
0.03221564 Hungary_Avar_Rákóczifalva:RKF269__AD_679__Cov_32.6 3%
0.03316121 Hungary_Avar_Kunpeszér:KUP020__AD_689__Cov_81.34%
0.03356826 Hungary_Avar_Rákóczifalva:RKF248__AD_679__Cov_82.0 6%
0.03376144 Hungary_EarlyArpadian:PLE-441.SG__AD_1050__Cov_98.03%
0.03393479 Ukraine_IA_WesternScythian.SG:MJ-34_noUDG.SG__BC_281__Cov_29.58%
0.03444233 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:SH-41.SG__AD_975__Cov_79.94%
0.03549767 Hungary_EarlyAvar:SZF-181.SG__AD_683__Cov_88.54%
0.03570629 Hungary_EarlyArpadian:PLE-384.SG__AD_1080__Cov_90.76%
0.03614407 Hungary_Avar_Rákóczifalva:RKF245__AD_679__Cov_66.4 9%
0.03648907 Dunai_scaled
0.03673179 France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG:R11559. SG__AD_275__Cov_71.19%
0.03695744 Avar:MGS218
0.03707592 Hungary_Conqueror_Elite:SP-2.SG__AD_980__Cov_51.38%
0.03756942 Hungary_Avar_Rákóczifalva:RKF241__AD_679__Cov_79.7 2%
0.03836226 Serbia_Beska_Severi_ValentianValen_possible.SG:R66 81.SG__AD_341__Cov_61.91%
0.03855016 Hungary_Conqueror_Elite:K1-10.SG__AD_925__Cov_67.38%
0.03862038 Hungary_Conqueror_Commoner:VPB-561.SG__AD_950__Cov_86.95%
0.03910654 Serbia_ViminaciumGrobalja:I15520__AD_254__Cov_44.2 5%
0.03960704 Serbia_Viminacium_Roman_elite_1.SG:R3931.SG__AD_18 1__Cov_63.79%
0.03964913 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I5288__BC_575__Cov_73.23%
0.03966446 Avar:MGS411
0.03984556 Slovakia_TesarkeMlynany_Germanic_MigrationPeriod.S G:R2209.SG__AD_400__Cov_67.48%