Why are Greeks and Turks relatively genetically apart despite being so close geographically?

[cj_227]

It's almost as if there was a gap between them.

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[Richard Alvarez]

Why are Moroccans and Spaniards relatively genetically apart despite being so close geographically?

[cj_227]

Why are Moroccans and Spaniards relatively genetically apart despite being so close geographically?The answer isn't simply the presence of a narrow body of water (a strait) between them. If it was so, there would also be greater differences between France and Britain, and also between Denmark and Sweden.

Enviado de meu moto g(9) play usando o Tapatalk

[Demirkazık]

East Eurasian admixture pulls us away from Greeks, when subtracted my Anatolian part is very Greek like with additional Slavic admixture. Genetically I'm about half Turkmen which makes me plot between Greeks and Turkmens.

Distance to: Anatolian_Demirkazık
0.01842498 Greek_Crete
0.01905297 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.02074249 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.02127942 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.02243273 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.02352328 Greek_Izmir
0.02370120 Greek_Crete_Heraklion
0.02377611 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.02506035 Greek_Laconia
0.02536304 Italian_Basilicata
0.02538623 Italian_Apulia
0.02550568 Greek_Apulia
0.02559796 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.02657466 Greek_Cyclades_Milos
0.02730260 Italian_Campania
0.02822109 Italian_Calabria
0.02831663 Sicilian_East
0.02857637 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
0.02934079 Greek_Peloponnese
0.02934710 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
0.02956283 Greek_Elis
0.02957152 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02973346 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.02990169 Italian_Abruzzo
0.02995883 Ashkenazi_Belarussia

Target: Anatolian_Demirkazık
Distance: 0.9982% / 0.00998234
40.6 Greek_Macedonia
18.8 Turkish_Trabzon
12.2 Greek_Arcadia
9.4 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
7.0 Yemenite_Jew
5.2 Samaritan
4.6 Sardinian
1.8 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.2 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
0.2 Russian_Kaluga

[cj_227]

East Eurasian admixture pulls us away from Greeks, when subtracted my Anatolian part is very Greek like with additional Slavic admixture. Genetically I'm about half Turkmen which makes me plot between Greeks and Turkmens.

Distance to: Anatolian_Demirkazık
0.01842498 Greek_Crete
0.01905297 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.02074249 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.02127942 Greek_South_Tsakonia
0.02243273 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.02352328 Greek_Izmir
0.02370120 Greek_Crete_Heraklion
0.02377611 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.02506035 Greek_Laconia
0.02536304 Italian_Basilicata
0.02538623 Italian_Apulia
0.02550568 Greek_Apulia
0.02559796 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.02657466 Greek_Cyclades_Milos
0.02730260 Italian_Campania
0.02822109 Italian_Calabria
0.02831663 Sicilian_East
0.02857637 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
0.02934079 Greek_Peloponnese
0.02934710 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
0.02956283 Greek_Elis
0.02957152 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02973346 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.02990169 Italian_Abruzzo
0.02995883 Ashkenazi_Belarussia

Target: Anatolian_Demirkazık
Distance: 0.9982% / 0.00998234
40.6 Greek_Macedonia
18.8 Turkish_Trabzon
12.2 Greek_Arcadia
9.4 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
7.0 Yemenite_Jew
5.2 Samaritan
4.6 Sardinian
1.8 Yemenite_Ma'rib
0.2 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
0.2 Russian_Kaluga

So before the 11th century Anatolia would have been much closer to Greece genetically? Today they plot not far from Iran.

[DomitiusAurelian]

It's almost as if there was a gap between them.

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An average Anatolian Turk scores %7-15 East Eurasian due to their Turkic ancestry, while Greeks score none. It really is as simple as that.

[Demirkazık]

So before the 11th century Anatolia would have been much closer to Greece genetically? Today they plot not far from Iran.

Before the arrival of Turks to Anatolia, native population plotted between Caucasians, Levantines and Greeks. In no PCA Iranians are closer to Anatolians. Even in my genetic approximation list North Caucasians come first.

[cj_227]

Before the arrival of Turks to Anatolia, native population plotted between Caucasians, Levantines and Greeks. In no PCA Iranians are closer to Anatolians. Even in my genetic approximation list North Caucasians come first.

Oh yeah, they are closer to Caucasians. But in this PCA the Iranians are really close as well: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=122597&d=1691152210

[Demirkazık]

Oh yeah, they are closer to Caucasians. But in this PCA the Iranians are really close as well: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=122597&d=1691152210

What samples did they use for Turkish, any insights ?

[Thracian]

Which Turks and Greeks?

Cappadocian or Pontus Greeks are not close to Greeks from Thessaly.

Balkan Turks are not close to Anatolian Turks or Turks from Caucasus.

[Russki]

What samples did they use for Turkish, any insights ?


https://reichdata.hms.harvard.edu/pub/datasets/amh_repo/curated_releases/

Kayseri24392.HO M Turkish.HO
Balikesir16675.HO F Turkish_Balikesir.HO
Turkish7BA57.HO M Turkish.HO
Balikesir16790.HO M Turkish_Balikesir.HO
Turkish8BA62.HO M Turkish.HO
Istanbul20010.HO M Turkish.HO
Turkish4BA57.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23114.HO F Turkish.HO
Trabzon21177.HO M Turkish.HO
Aydin18784.HO M Turkish.HO
Istanbul19810.HO F Turkish.HO
Trabzon21557.HO M Turkish.HO
Trabzon21534.HO M Turkish.HO
Turkish9BA57.HO M Turkish.HO
Kayseri24075.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23108.HO M Turkish.HO
Balikesir16887.HO F Turkish_Balikesir.HO
Kayseri24266.HO F Turkish.HO
Balikesir16653.HO M Turkish_Balikesir.HO
Istanbul25095.HO M Turkish.HO
Aydin18112.HO M Turkish.HO
Kayseri24402.HO F Turkish.HO
Istanbul25081.HO M Turkish.HO
Aydin18596.HO M Turkish.HO
Istanbul17778.HO M Turkish.HO
Istanbul15781.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23136.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23113.HO M Turkish.HO
Trabzon21575.HO M Turkish.HO
Aydin18636.HO F Turkish.HO
Istanbul20040.HO F Turkish.HO
Adana23144.HO F Turkish.HO
Kayseri23967.HO M Turkish.HO
Trabzon21174.HO M Turkish.HO
Aydin18873.HO M Turkish.HO
Kayseri23892.HO M Turkish.HO
Istanbul19185.HO M Turkish.HO
Istanbul25098.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23133.HO F Turkish.HO
Trabzon21515.HO M Turkish.HO
Kayseri24032.HO M Turkish.HO
Kayseri23549.HO M Turkish.HO
Trabzon21544.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23150.HO M Turkish.HO
Kayseri23271.HO F Turkish.HO
Trabzon21645.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23147.HO M Turkish.HO
Aydin18483.HO F Turkish.HO
Balikesir17006.HO M Turkish_Balikesir.HO
Aydin18419.HO F Turkish.HO
Kayseri24276.HO F Turkish.HO
Istanbul19708.HO F Turkish.HO
Trabzon21173.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23112.HO M Turkish.HO
Adana23117.HO M Turkish.HO
S_Turkish-1.DG M Turkish.DG
S_Turkish-2.DG F Turkish.DG

[Demirkazık]

Which Turks and Greeks?

Cappadocian or Pontus Greeks are not close to Greeks from Thessaly.

Balkan Turks are not close to Anatolian Turks or Turks from Caucasus.

There is also a variation among Anatolian Turks, genetically I'm closer to Balkan Turks namely Gumulcine/Deliorman/Rumeli than I'm to Erzurum Turks, Azerbaijani Turks and some Turks from Kayseri. My Levantine shifted ancestry pulls me away from Balkan Turks though.

[Thracian]

There is also a variation among Anatolian Turks, genetically I'm closer to Balkan Turks namely Gumulcine/Deliorman/Rumeli than I'm to Erzurum Turks, Azerbaijani Turks and some Turks from Kayseri. My Levantine shifted ancestry pulls me away from Balkan Turks though.

This is what I was trying to say. As you said even an Anatolian Turk according to his/her region could be closer to different populations.

[cj_227]

What samples did they use for Turkish, any insights ?I'm not sure. Can't find where I took that PCA from

Enviado de meu moto g(9) play usando o Tapatalk

[kingmob]

They are not that far off from each other on fst.

These PCAs exaggerate dimensional space visually.

[kingmob]

fst(prefix, pop1 = "Greek", pop2 = c("Turkish", "Georgian", "Armenian_Hemsheni", "Armenian", "Ossetian", "Azeri","Bulgarian","Albanian","Norwegian","Somali"))
ℹ Reading allele frequencies from packedancestrymap files...
ℹ v54.1_HO.geno has 14317 samples and 597573 SNPs
ℹ Calculating allele frequencies from 159 samples in 11 populations
ℹ Expected size of allele frequency data: 120 MB
597k SNPs read...
✔ 597573 SNPs read in total
! 585291 SNPs remain after filtering. 497295 are polymorphic.
ℹ Allele frequency matrix for 585291 SNPs and 11 populations is 94 MB
ℹ Computing pairwise f2 for all SNPs and population pairs requires 2060 MB RAM without splitting
ℹ Computing without splitting since 2060 < 8000 (maxmem)...
ℹ Returning fst blocks
# A tibble: 10 × 4
pop1 pop2 est se
<chr> <chr> <dbl> <dbl>
1 Greek Albanian -0.0000585 0.000597
2 Greek Armenian 0.00246 0.000493
3 Greek Armenian_Hemsheni 0.00622 0.000553
4 Greek Azeri 0.00493 0.000427
5 Greek Bulgarian 0.000676 0.000474
6 Greek Georgian 0.00494 0.000407
7 Greek Norwegian 0.00876 0.000569
8 Greek Ossetian 0.00659 0.000465
9 Greek Somali 0.0673 0.000829
10 Greek Turkish 0.00225 0.000355



Note: negative value on Albanian distance means 0.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixation_index

[Voskos]

It's almost as if there was a gap between them.

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because mongoloid+west asian drifts them apart. slavic and med brings them close.

[Kuningaz]

Turks are an ethnicity in their own right whose ethnogenesis was the meeting of Turkic tribes and Anatolians.