Why Belarus is NOT White Russia

[Peterski]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8NjiikeUg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8NjiikeUg

[Russki]

Belarus is a Neo-Danubian Russia.

[Katarzyna]

Belarus is a Neo-Danubian Russia.

Хахахахаха xDxDxD

[Zohor]

Let me short you an OP video,

It's not white Russia because it's white Rus and these are not the same thing.
Still most of the video was stealing history of Lithuania by claiming Belarus is real Lithuania and some old ass maps where Belarusian territory was named Lithuania and placing white Rus term totally somewhere else on these maps.

[Vessna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8NjiikeUg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8NjiikeUg

Because Belarus is NOT Russia. White Rus, Balta Rus or White Ruthenia, ancient territories of the Krivitches, Polotchans, Dregovitches, Drevlians, Doulebes. I would love to know what percentages I am of these tribes but they loved to burn their dead.

[Ugo]

Because Belarus is NOT Russia. White Rus, Balta Rus or White Ruthenia, ancient territories of the Krivitches, Polotchans, Dregovitches, Drevlians, Doulebes. I would love to know what percentages I am of these tribes but they loved to burn their dead.
1)Belaya Rus - that used to be the name of Moscow Rus. This word meant "Free Russia". White is free, black is not free. The territory of Ukraine and Belarus belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the INCL. and were not ruled by the Old Russian Rurikovich family. Moscow Russia was white Russia, that is, the only free Russia. Then this name passed to the Belarusians.
2) You have written too many names of Belarusian tribes. For example, the Polochans are the same Krivichi, and the Dulebs are Dregovichi. Drevlyans are a Ukrainian tribe, not a Belarusian one. In fact, Belarusians have three Slavic tribes - Dregovichi, Krivichi and Radimichi. The last two tribes (Krivichi and Radimichi) are common with the Russians. Krivichi settled from Polotsk to Yaroslavl, radimichi are southeastern Belarusians and Bryansk Russians. Therefore, the Belarusian are really not Russia, but they are part of the Russian people. Belarusians are identical with Smolensk Krivichi even genetically.

[Vessna]

1)Belaya Rus - that used to be the name of Moscow Rus. This word meant "Free Russia". White is free, black is not free. The territory of Ukraine and Belarus belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the INCL. and were not ruled by the Old Russian Rurikovich family.
2) You have written too many names of Belarusian tribes. For example, the Polochans are the same Krivichi, and the Dulebs are Dregovichi. Drevlyans are a Ukrainian tribe, not a Belarusian one. In fact, Belarusians have three Slavic tribes - Dregovichi, Krivichi and Radimichi. The last two tribes (Krivichi and Radimichi) are common with the Russians. Krivichi settled from Polotsk to Yaroslavl, radimichi are southeastern Belarusians and Bryansk Russians. Therefore, the Belarusian are really not Russia, but they are part of the Russian people. Belarusians are identical with Smolensk Krivichi even genetically.

Yes, Belarusians are mainly Krivichi, Radzimichi and Dregovichi. However, the area of Grand Duchy of Lithuania called “White Ruthenia” was populated by all the tribes I mentioned. And yes, Belarusians are Rus people. I am not disputing that part. Russians and Lithuanians are our closest genetic relatives.


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[CountGrishnackh]

1)Belaya Rus - that used to be the name of Moscow Rus. This word meant "Free Russia". White is free, black is not free. The territory of Ukraine and Belarus belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the INCL. and were not ruled by the Old Russian Rurikovich family. Moscow Russia was white Russia, that is, the only free Russia. Then this name passed to the Belarusians.
2) You have written too many names of Belarusian tribes. For example, the Polochans are the same Krivichi, and the Dulebs are Dregovichi. Drevlyans are a Ukrainian tribe, not a Belarusian one. In fact, Belarusians have three Slavic tribes - Dregovichi, Krivichi and Radimichi. The last two tribes (Krivichi and Radimichi) are common with the Russians. Krivichi settled from Polotsk to Yaroslavl, radimichi are southeastern Belarusians and Bryansk Russians. Therefore, the Belarusian are really not Russia, but they are part of the Russian people. Belarusians are identical with Smolensk Krivichi even genetically.

bhahahah, wtfff

[Vessna]

bhahahah, wtfff

Yeah I re-read the first paragraph and raised my eyebrows


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[Alenka]

In the proto-Slavic language, the four cardinal directions were associated with colors.
White — North, Red —West, Black — South, and Green — East.
Thus, Belarus = land of the Northern Rus.

[Vessna]

1)Belaya Rus - that used to be the name of Moscow Rus. This word meant "Free Russia". White is free, black is not free. The territory of Ukraine and Belarus belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the INCL. and were not ruled by the Old Russian Rurikovich family. Moscow Russia was white Russia, that is, the only free Russia. Then this name passed to the Belarusians.

This is an interesting interpretation. What is your source for this information? I’ve never heard Moscow to be called “White Russia”. Belarus was a part of Grand Duchy of Lithuania during the Rurik rule of Russia and was called Balto(White) Ruthenia.

[Vessna]

In the proto-Slavic language, the four cardinal directions were associated with colors.
White — North, Red —West, Black — South, and Green — East.
Thus, Belarus = land of the Northern Rus.

White Ruthenia (Belarusian: Белая Русь, romanized: Biełaja Ruś; Polish: Ruś Biała; Russian: Белая Русь, romanized: Bjelaja Ruś; Ukrainian: Біла Русь, romanized: Bila Ruś) alternatively known as Russia Alba, White Rus' or White Russia, is an archaism[1][2] for the eastern part of present-day Belarus, including the cities of Polotsk, Vitebsk and Mogilev.

According to Alfred Nicolas Rambaud:

The name of White (Lithuanian: Balta) Russia is given to the provinces conquered from the 13th to the 14th century by the Grand Dukes of Lithuania. These were the ancient territories of the Krivitches, Polotchans, Dregovitches, Drevlians, Doulebes, now forming the governments of Vitepsk, Mohilef, and Minsk. The Lithuanian territories of Grodno, Novogrodek and Belostok were sometimes called Black Russia.[3]


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[Ugo]

Yeah I re-read the first paragraph and raised my eyebrows

I know the history of Russia well. Arguing with me is pointless. Read it here. Although there is not all the information here. I will note 2 points from this link. 1) Belarus is the Novgorod Republic 2) The very first territory that was called Belarus was the Rostov-Suzdal Principality.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81% D1%8C

[Vessna]

I know the history of Russia well. Arguing with me is pointless. Read it here. Although there is not all the information here. I will note 2 points from this link. 1) Belarus is the Novgorod Republic 2) The very first territory that was called Belarus was the Rostov-Suzdal Principality.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81% D1%8C

The link doesn’t work


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[CountGrishnackh]

This is an interesting interpretation. What is your source for this information? I’ve never heard Moscow to be called “White Russia”. Belarus was a part of Grand Duchy of Lithuania during the Rurik rule of Russia and was called Balto(White) Ruthenia.

his 'source' is his drunk ass, it has absolutely nothing to do with Belarus being 'Free' or whatever. Free as opposed to what? Being enslaved? There are 0 sources claiming 'White' in Belarus stands for 'Free'.

[CordedWhelp]

Accurate or not, Balt-Rus has a nice little ring to it.

[Ugo]

Here is all the evidence that White Russia was originally called 1) the Novgorod Republic
2) Moscow kingdom

On the map of Central Europe, published around 1459 by Nikolai Kuzansky, the name Belaya Rus means Muscovy (Russia Alba sive Moscovia). This area lies to the east of the Dnieper (Borysthenes)[12].

On the 26th, we were called for the last time to His Highness and before the audience began, we examined various silk products prepared by his order, not too excellent, however, as well as gifts appointed for the Duke of Burgundy, for our Most Serene Republic and for a certain Mark Rosso, ambassador of the Grand Duke of Moscow, Sovereign of White Russia[15].

So, on September 26, 1476, singing the prayer "We praise God to You" and offering thanks to God, who saved us from many troubles and dangers, we entered the city of Moscow, belonging to Grand Duke John, ruler of Great White Russia (il duca Zuane, signer della gran Rossia Bianca)[16].
https://web.archive.org/web/20150402062602/https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81% D1%8C

[Vessna]

Accurate or not, Balt-Rus has a nice little ring to it.

Belarus in Lithuanian is Baltarusija, and they call us baltarusių.


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[Ugo]

his 'source' is his drunk ass, it has absolutely nothing to do with Belarus being 'Free' or whatever. Free as opposed to what? Being enslaved? There are 0 sources claiming 'White' in Belarus stands for 'Free'.Where did you come from here, troll? You've been banned.

[Vessna]

Here is all the evidence that White Russia was originally called 1) the Novgorod Republic
2) Moscow kingdom



https://web.archive.org/web/20150402062602/https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81% D1%8C

I read the wiki article and sounds like they called “White Rus” a lot of different places from Eastern Poland to Northern Russia [emoji1]
Anyway, if this name was at the core of Russian identity, it would have stuck. But it did not. It was not important to the Russian people of the past.

[Ugo]

Balto(White) Ruthenia.
The fact is that the word "Balts" as the name of the Baltic peoples appeared in 1845. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania is a maximum of 1253-1795. That is, the word Balto-Russia could not appear in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania . A mismatch, right? This version of Balto-russia was invented very recently by alternative nationalist historians

[Vessna]

The fact is that the word "Balts" as the name of the Baltic peoples appeared in 1845. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania is a maximum of 1253-1795. That is, the word Balto-Russia could not appear in ON. A mismatch, right? This version of Balto-russia was invented very recently by alternative nationalist historians

Balt literally translates as white from Lithuanian. Baltic Sea = White Sea. Balto Russian is similar to Weißrussland in German. No conspiracy, just a literal translation of the name. I don’t understand what are you trying to prove.


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[Vessna]

Again, from what I’ve read in Russian and English sources, the term “White Russia” was used very loosely and often meant geographically different places. If it had been used consistently as a name for a particular Russian territory it would have stayed as such as most geographical names do. We can only guess how things were perceived 500 years ago. I don’t think there is a particular conspiracy or agenda here.


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[Vessna]

Since when did you become an alpha male? Humiliated cockerel.

Classy.. I get Russian Zona vibe.


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[Ugo]

Again, from what I’ve read in Russian and English sources, the term “White Russia” was used very loosely and often meant geographically different places. If it had been used consistently as a name for a particular Russian territory it would have stayed as such as most geographical names do. We can only guess how things were perceived 500 years ago. I don’t think there is a particular conspiracy or agenda here.


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Perhaps this is a late tracing paper from Slavic. You are right that Belaya Rus is a very common name for various territories of late medieval Russia. The beginning of the Belarusian name should be sought in the Slavic tradition.

[rothaer]

In the proto-Slavic language, the four cardinal directions were associated with colors.
White — North, Red —West, Black — South, and Green — East.
Thus, Belarus = land of the Northern Rus.

Striking, thanks.

If the "combattants" in this thread ignore this statement, they can not seriously be interested in enlightment. Btw. what you say also fits well to White Croats etc.

[thatoneton]

In the proto-Slavic language, the four cardinal directions were associated with colors.
White — North, Red —West, Black — South, and Green — East.
Thus, Belarus = land of the Northern Rus.

Sadly no proof exist that this was the case.

[thatoneton]

Striking, thanks.

If the "combattants" in this thread ignore this statement, they can not seriously be interested in enlightment. Btw. what you say also fits well to White Croats etc.

The problem is that there is no any proof that the Slavic languages used a different meaning of colors as cardinal directions than the Asian cultures. Thus it was most likely the same:

Black-North
East-Blue
Red-South
White-West

Same with "White Croats", a term found for example in the Primary Chronicle where it is used for the Balkan Croats as opposed to the "Rus" Croats.

[Alenka]

Sadly no proof exist that this was the case.
Cope.

Source: Ukrainian Soviet Encyclopedic dictionary, Kiev, 1987.
https://i.imgur.com/7nrGpTo.jpg

[rothaer]

You also have this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ruthenia

[Victor]

Who cares about Pole opinion while during 19 and early 20 century most of Belorussian inteligentsia considered themselves to be Western Russians, having strongly Russian identity, most of them later became part of White Movement. Also, the role of a Belorussian/Orthodox peasant is a serf of a Polish master in a system of Polish society. Plus, almost whole modern Eastern Belorussia has never been part of it, it was taken from Russia by Communists.

In February 1921, April 1924 and December 1926, part of the territory of the Russian Soviet republic, namely parts of Vitebsk (with Vitebsk), Smolensk (with Orsha), Gomel (with Gomel) provinces, were transferred to the Belarusian SSR. Thus, the territory of the BSSR more than doubled, and its eastern border began to correspond to the eastern border of modern Belarus.

[majevica]

Here is a Belarusian national hero

https://imgur.com/m5TLvlC.jpg

Wincenty Konstanty Kalinowski, also known as Kastuś Kalinoŭski.

A Catholic Pole, born into a Szlachta family (Kalinowski family) originating from Mazovia.

One of the leaders of the January Uprising of 1863, which aimed to restore the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.


There is a regiment named after him fighting in Ukraine.

https://imgur.com/tf43mwH.jpg

https://imgur.com/hvHJBzM.jpg

Where is the Cyrillic script in the emblem?

Not forgetting the use of the Lithuanian Vytis...


And what about the white-red-white flag?

It is believed to have been created in 1917 by Klawdziy Duzh-Dushewski, a man born into a Lithuanian szlachta family.


Everything is clear.

[Ugo]

Here is a Belarusian national hero

https://imgur.com/m5TLvlC.jpg

Wincenty Konstanty Kalinowski, also known as Kastuś Kalinoŭski.

A Catholic Pole, born into a Szlachta family (Kalinowski family) originating from Mazovia.

One of the leaders of the January Uprising of 1863, which aimed to restore the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.


There is a regiment named after him fighting in Ukraine.

https://imgur.com/tf43mwH.jpg

https://imgur.com/hvHJBzM.jpg

Where is the Cyrillic script in the emblem?

Not forgetting the use of the Lithuanian Vytis...


And what about the white-red-white flag?

It is believed to have been created in 1917 by Klawdziy Duzh-Dushewski, a man born into a Lithuanian szlachta family.


Everything is clear.
Smolensk Russians are 100% genetically consistent with Belarusians. Both Eastern Belarusians and Western Russians are not just one people, they are one Slavic tribe from the 5th-7th century - the Krivichi. Part of the Smolensk Krivichi went to the east, they became Tver and Yaroslavl Krivichi. Eastern Ukrainians and southern Russians have a common Siever tribe. That is, our peoples are bonded not only by one ancient state of Russia, but also by family ties.

[thatoneton]

Cope.

Source: Ukrainian Soviet Encyclopedic dictionary, Kiev, 1987.
https://i.imgur.com/7nrGpTo.jpg

Yeah, like I've said no proof exist for this to be the case. By proof I mean any historical source not theories from the XIX or XX century.

BTW Also sources like Soviet Ukraine enclyclopedia hardly matters. You could have at least quoted some modern western historian who bases his claim on those same baseless theories from the XIX and XX century. :)

[thatoneton]

You also have this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ruthenia

Indeed. And?

[thatoneton]

Who cares about Pole opinion
(...)


I don't know whether you referred to me or someone else in the first paragraph - I didn't say anything about the relation between Belarus and Russia yet, just pointed at some other stuff that does not come from historical sources. If not then, np. :)



Plus, almost whole modern Eastern Belorussia has never been part of it, it was taken from Russia by Communists.

In February 1921, April 1924 and December 1926, part of the territory of the Russian Soviet republic, namely parts of Vitebsk (with Vitebsk), Smolensk (with Orsha), Gomel (with Gomel) provinces, were transferred to the Belarusian SSR. Thus, the territory of the BSSR more than doubled, and its eastern border began to correspond to the eastern border of modern Belarus.

In referrence to what you wrote in this post I want to point out that all the lands that now make up eastern Belarus belonged at some point to both the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and later Poland - with Lithuania controlling lands as far east as Kursk or Kozelsk
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/33/5f/3e335f6eeb5ad7945d0c65e83fec21e9.jpg

and Poland as far east as Serpeysk
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/57/19/805719e9872e3bd088e68001b33fcf49.png

Also the Belarusian Democratic Republic claimed areas more or less as far east as that:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/BNR_1918.png
Though of course they never controlled most of them.

Thus saying that these lands were never a part of Belarus before the communists made them is a little bit of a stretch - the territory that was referred to as Belarus for the longest time in the past was exactly this, eastern-central modern Belarus BTW.

Since Belarus was hardly an independent state in the past it's also hard to say which lands were added to it and which were not.

[Victor]

(...)


I don't know whether you referred to me or someone else in the first paragraph - I didn't say anything about the relation between Belarus and Russia yet, just pointed at some other stuff that does not come from historical sources. If not then, np. :)



In referrence to what you wrote in this post I want to point out that all the lands that now make up eastern Belarus belonged at some point to both the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and later Poland - with Lithuania controlling lands as far east as Kursk or Kozelsk
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/33/5f/3e335f6eeb5ad7945d0c65e83fec21e9.jpg

and Poland as far east as Serpeysk
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/57/19/805719e9872e3bd088e68001b33fcf49.png

Also the Belarusian Democratic Republic claimed areas more or less as far east as that:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/BNR_1918.png
Though of course they never controlled most of them.

Thus saying that these lands were never a part of Belarus before the communists made them is a little bit of a stretch - the territory that was referred to as Belarus for the longest time in the past was exactly this, eastern-central modern Belarus BTW.

Since Belarus was hardly an independent state in the past it's also hard to say which lands were added to it and which were not.

I'm living on territory of this virtual republic atm xD. I'm not talking about borders, just come to Vitebsk or Orsha and ask what they are and whom they see closer to themselves, Russians, Poles etc.

[Victor]

(...)

The Pole opinion thing was not towards you but Peterski who's very categorical in his statements, like everything he wrote has something to do with current situation. Western Belorussia could become Poland naturally even nowadays, everything else is quite doubtful.

[thatoneton]

I'm living on territory of this virtual republic atm xD. I'm not talking about borders, just come to Vitebsk or Orsha and ask what they are and whom they see closer to themselves, Russians, Poles etc.

The answer is rather simple - they see themselves as closer to the Russians.

Since both Vitebsk and Orsha clealry lie in the central-eastern part of modern Belarus closer to the Dnieper river and since symbolically in the XX century Berezina river was used as an approximate border between the Polish (and Lithuanian) and Russian cultural influence in these lands - not to mention neither Vitebsk nor Orsha was under Polish control in the XX century - it's rather obvious people there would see themselves as closer to Russians.

[thatoneton]

The Pole opinion thing was not towards you but Peterski who's very categorical in his statements, like everything he wrote has something to do with current situation.
OK, I just wasn't sure.


Western Belorussia could become Poland naturally even nowadays, everything else is quite doubtful.
You know, we don't go around and make territorial claims on our neighbours. :)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Another thread where Russian sympathizers claim bordering territories have always been rightfully theirs or that they are the same people, typical cheap historical revisionism easily debunked by opening a book. Regrettably, in the case of Belarus, Russification is already well advanced, almost irreversible and people are apathetic and don't care about preserving their culture or language for the most part, which is in danger of extinction within their own country. Lukashenko basically pimps the entire nation to Russia, in exchange for military and financial support. He would be the first to annex Belarus to Russia as long as he had a chance of being a presidential candidate or other key position in the Russian Federation, so the country is doomed to be a perpetual client-state or to be annexed in the future.
The strangest thing is that some European nationalists\conservatives on the forum see Lukashenko as an ideal figure but don't realize that his biggest enemy are actual patriotic\nationalist Belarusians, it's absolutely in his interest that the Belarusian language dies out for good along with the native culture that is discriminated against and seen as backward within their own territory.

[Peterski]

Entire modern Belarus was within the Polish-Lithuanian borders as of 1772 (blue territory in the map below):

https://i.imgur.com/HdvubqI.png

[Victor]

Entire modern Belarus was within the Polish-Lithuanian borders as of 1772 (blue territory in the map below):

https://i.imgur.com/HdvubqI.png

Who cares about 1772? Even if so, do you think someone's gonna present it to you? This red area of Ukraine is realistic, I hope it will be yours.

Do you think modern Lithuanians or Estonians wanna be part of your commonwealth? (I don't care, but do they?)

[Peterski]

Who cares about 1772? Even if so, do you think someone's gonna present it to you? This red area of Ukraine is realistic, I hope it will be yours.

Do you think modern Lithuanians or Estonians wanna be part of your commonwealth? (I don't care, but do they?)

In Belarus (Białoruś) there are still around 1 million ethnic Poles:

https://i.imgur.com/nQlKBcl.png

[Victor]

In Belarus (Białoruś) there are still around 1 million ethnic Poles:

https://i.imgur.com/nQlKBcl.png

I even have Polish surname, so what? Most of those people here and in Belorussia don't consider themselves to be Poles (except Grodno, Brest regions).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Entire modern Belarus was within the Polish-Lithuanian borders as of 1772 (blue territory in the map below):

https://i.imgur.com/HdvubqI.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%96%D0%B7%D 0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F_%28%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%96 %D1%84%D1%96%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F%29._%D0 %9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B0%D0%BA.jpg/800px-%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%96%D0%B7%D 0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F_%28%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%96 %D1%84%D1%96%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F%29._%D0 %9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B0%D0%BA.jpg

Polotsk in three stages, very enlightening of the region's history. On the first image, part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, followed by Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and finally "superior" post-Soviet modernity. In any case, I have to be honest, and what I said about Russians also applies to Poles or Lithuanians. They have no legitimate claim to the territory, the nobility\elite was Polish-Lithuanian but the natives of the territory of Belarus were not.

[Victor]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%96%D0%B7%D 0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F_%28%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%96 %D1%84%D1%96%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F%29._%D0 %9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B0%D0%BA.jpg/800px-%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%96%D0%B7%D 0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F_%28%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%96 %D1%84%D1%96%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%8B%D1%8F%29._%D0 %9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B0%D0%BA.jpg

Polotsk in three stages, very enlightening of the region's history. On the first image, part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, followed by Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and finally "superior" post-Soviet modernity. In any case, I have to be honest, and what I said about Russians also applies to Poles or Lithuanians. They have no legitimate claim to the territory, the nobility\elite was Polish-Lithuanian but the natives of the territory of Belarus were not.

The previous to latter Soviet pics are the ones from Russian Empire (from 1772 it's Russia and photos are from like 1895) and you see the Orthodox churches built in the Russian period depicted.

[Peterski]

In any case, I have to be honest, and what I said about Russians also applies to Poles or Lithuanians. They have no legitimate claim to the territory, the nobility\elite was Polish-Lithuanian but the natives of the territory of Belarus were not.

In many areas Poles were the majority of population also in the countryside (among peasants). I wrote about this here:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218770-Subdivisions-of-Polish-people&p=4683313&viewfull=1#post4683313

Some examples of counties with Polish majority:

https://i.imgur.com/RQV1rdk.png

And here you have the data from the Interwar period:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy#Interwar_population

https://i.imgur.com/XgbGasW.png

[Victor]

In many areas Poles were the majority of population also in the countryside (among peasants). I wrote about this here:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218770-Subdivisions-of-Polish-people&p=4683313&viewfull=1#post4683313

Some examples of counties with Polish majority:

https://i.imgur.com/RQV1rdk.png

Better ask your Ukrainian brothers where have the 100k of Poles gone from Volyn, not us.

[Peterski]

Better ask your Ukrainian brothers where have the 100k of Poles gone from Volyn, not us.

Russians killed more Poles than Ukrainians did. And how many Poles were deported by Russians to Siberia, to Kazakhstan, etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_Kazakhstan#Arrival

"At least 250,000 Poles from the Polish National Districts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_National_District) of the Soviet Union were deported to the Kazakh SSR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_Soviet_Socialist_Republic) in 1930s; among those, as many as 100,000 did not survive the first winter in the country."

[Victor]

Russians killed more Poles than Ukrainians did. And how many Poles were deported by Russians to Siberia, to Kazakhstan, etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_Kazakhstan#Arrival

"At least 250,000 Poles from the Polish National Districts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_National_District) of the Soviet Union were deported to the Kazakh SSR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_Soviet_Socialist_Republic) in 1930s; among those, as many as 100,000 did not survive the first winter in the country."

Does it even matter nowadays? It's a current reality, not a computer game.

[Peterski]

Does it even matter nowadays? It's a current reality, not a computer game.

And what Ukrainians did 80 years ago matters nowadays?

[Victor]

And what Ukrainians did 80 years ago matters nowadays?

So you pick what you like at the moment.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

In many areas Poles were the majority of population also in the countryside (among peasants). I wrote about this here:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218770-Subdivisions-of-Polish-people&p=4683313&viewfull=1#post4683313

Some examples of counties with Polish majority:

https://i.imgur.com/RQV1rdk.png

And here you have the data from the Interwar period:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy#Interwar_population

There was also what we would commonly know as today Belorussians living in what is now Polish territory. Along the borders there is always a limbo, that is why there was even a population exchange between Poland and Soviet Belarus. I had a Belorussian friend in Gdansk who was living in Poland under political asylum, I don't think he identified as Pole at all. In my opinion annexing or absorbing this population makes no sense even if some of them are of Polish descent, because they no longer identify themselves as such. They can barely keep their own culture alive.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The previous to latter Soviet pics are the ones from Russian Empire (from 1772 it's Russia and photos are from like 1895) and you see the Orthodox churches built in the Russian period depicted.

What you can see is Polish-Lithuanian architecture that was demolished by Russian Imperial and Soviet authorities.

[Victor]

What you can see is Polish-Lithuanian architecture that was demolished by Russian Imperial and Soviet authorities.

I've been both to Polotsk and Vitebsk, they've just expanded during Soviet period. I don't like Soviet architecture but the blocks there now are not bigger and don't take that much area as some blocks in Paris for example.

[Peterski]

There was also what we would commonly know as today Belorussians living in what is now Polish territory. Along the borders there is always a limbo, that is why there was even a population exchange between Poland and Soviet Belarus. I had a Belorussian friend in Gdansk who was living in Poland under political asylum, I don't think he identified as Pole at all. In my opinion annexing or absorbing this population makes no sense even if some of them are of Polish descent, because they no longer identify themselves as such. They can barely keep their own culture alive.

Not true. About 1 million of them in Belarus still identify themselves as Poles. As I wrote in the linked thread:

"(...) modern studies carried out recently by the Grodno University and by the Minsk University show that vast majority of Roman Catholics in Belarus identify as Poles and an even larger percent declare Polish ancestry (i.e. some no longer identify as fully Poles, but still declare Polish ancestry).

For research carried out by Grodno University, which shows that 83,3% of Roman Catholics in the Grodno Oblast identify as fully Poles (the rest of Roman Catholics there identify as both Poles and Belarusians or just Belarusians) and even more - because 95% - declare Polish ancestry (including also mixed Polish-Belarusian ancestry) check this source:

https://i.imgur.com/l0WhAId.png

In another survey from 2003, as many as 82% of Catholics in Belarus declared that they have Polish ancestry, including 66% with fully Polish ancestry and 16% from mixed families. In the westernmost Diocese of Grodno 95% of Catholics declared Polish ancestry, while in the easternmost Archdiocese of Minsk-Mogilev still as many as 73%.

This 2003 survey found out that 80% of Catholics in the Diocese of Grodno identify as fully Poles - so slightly less than according to that 2000 research by the University of Grodno (which showed 83,3%). In other dioceses percentages of Roman Catholics who identify as fully Polish are 70% in the Diocese of Pinsk, 57% in the Diocese of Vitebsk and just 35% in the Archdiocese of Minsk-Mogilev (compared to 73% who declared Polish ancestry in the Archdiocese of Minsk-Mogilev).

In the nationwide scale (entire Belarus on average), 63% of Roman Catholics identify as fully Poles (2003 data), 66% declare fully Polish ancestry, and 16% declare mixed Polish-Belarusian or Polish-other ancestry (in total 82% declare Polish ancestry). Regional breakdowns above.

There are also a lot of Non-Catholic (Atheist, Orthodox, etc.) Poles in Belarus, because in some regions % of Poles is higher than % of Catholics. (...)"

[Peterski]

Who cares about 1772?

Zelensky does. He remembers the Commonwealth, he said that "together there is 90 million of us", check this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlHU20TGlZc

https://i.imgur.com/tgR9t8h.png

[Victor]

Zelensky does. He remembers the Commonwealth, he said that "together there is 90 million of us", check this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlHU20TGlZc

https://i.imgur.com/tgR9t8h.png

He's just a Soviet hootzpa Jew who talks what is demanded and honors the Nazis just for the whole plot. This Potz barely cares. He's just a doll.

[Peterski]

So you pick what you like at the moment.

No - for me it is important what Russia is doing since February 2022 (not what Russia did 80 years ago).

[Vessna]

There was also what we would commonly know as today Belorussians living in what is now Polish territory. Along the borders there is always a limbo, that is why there was even a population exchange between Poland and Soviet Belarus. I had a Belorussian friend in Gdansk who was living in Poland under political asylum, I don't think he identified as Pole at all. In my opinion annexing or absorbing this population makes no sense even if some of them are of Polish descent, because they no longer identify themselves as such. They can barely keep their own culture alive.

I disagree with “barely” keeping the culture alive. I am born and raised in Belarus and have been to Russia many times. Belarusian culture is different and unique. We have traditions that my Russian husband had no clue about because Russians have forgotten them. We celebrate (and I mean the whole country not just a handful of neo-pagans) all old Slavic holidays - Dziady(Forefathers' Eve), Kaliadi (winter solstice), Maslianitsa, Radunitsa (Spring Dziady), Kupala (summer solstice- my favorite!), Dożynki! I loved my childhood in Belarus and all these celebrations. These traditions are alive and well!
When my husband visited Belarus for the first time he found a lot of things about Belarus different - kurgans, wooden totems, crosses on village intersections, our food, people, architecture.

So please don’t say what you have no idea about.

Edit: my sister lives in Poland. I visit her once a year. Objectively, as a Belarusian with strong ties to Russia, without Polish agenda - Belarus is more similar to Poland in culture and traditions. Not the same, but very close. I don’t get the same feeling in Russia. Their villages look different, food, dress, everything feels different. I don’t know how to explain it. It doesn’t mean Belarus should be a part of one or the other. For once, it should be on its own.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231018/5f091c54a9968288ae9448c7c34ae750.jpg



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[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I disagree with “barely” keeping the culture alive. I am born and raised in Belarus and have been to Russia many times. Belarusian culture is different and unique. We have traditions that my Russian husband had no clue about because Russians have forgotten them. We celebrate (and I mean the whole country not just a handful of neo-pagans) all old Slavic holidays - Dziady(Forefathers' Eve), Kaliadi (winter solstice), Maslianitsa, Radunitsa (Spring Dziady), Kupala (summer solstice- my favorite!), Dożynki! I loved my childhood in Belarus and all these celebrations. These traditions are alive and well!
When my husband visited Belarus for the first time he found a lot of things about Belarus different - kurgans, wooden totems, crosses on village intersections, our food, people, architecture.

So please don’t say what you have no idea about.

Edit: my sister lives in Poland. I visit her once a year. Objectively, as a Belarusian with strong ties to Russia, without Polish agenda - Belarus is more similar to Poland in culture and traditions. Not the same, but very close. I don’t get the same feeling in Russia. Their villages look different, food, dress, everything feels different. I don’t know how to explain it. It doesn’t mean Belarus should be a part of one or the other. For once, it should be on its own.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231018/5f091c54a9968288ae9448c7c34ae750.jpg



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We can discuss whether it's a few different holidays or villages that will preserve Belarusian identity, or whether it's the language, which barely anyone speaks, starting with the president. I'm glad you had a happy childhood in Belarus but you tell me if it was spent listening to Russian or Belarusian and which is your actual mother togue.

[Vessna]

My mother grew up speaking Belarusian only and went to a Belarusian school. My father grew up in a bilingual household because my grandfather was Russian. I learned both languages simultaneously. I spoke Belarusian mostly at my grandmothers and Russian at home in the city. Me and my siblings can freely communicate in Belarusian. Most of us can, unless you are a kolhoznik Lukashenko. He is killing the language with his “bilingual” policy. It should be only one Belarusian language and all schooling done in Belarusian if they want to preserve it.


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[Vessna]

We can discuss whether it's a few different holidays or villages that will preserve Belarusian identity, or whether it's the language, which barely anyone speaks, starting with the president. I'm glad you had a happy childhood in Belarus but you tell me if it was spent listening to Russian or Belarusian and which is your actual mother togue.

These “few different holidays” are at the core of slavic traditions. The way you dismiss it makes me think that you know very little of Slavic culture.


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[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

My mother grew up speaking Belarusian only and went to a Belarusian school. My father grew up in a bilingual household because my grandfather was Russian. I learned both languages simultaneously. I spoke Belarusian mostly at my grandmothers and Russian at home in the city. Me and my siblings can freely communicate in Belarusian. Most of us can, unless you are a kolhoznik Lukashenko. He is killing the language with his “bilingual” policy. It should be only one Belarusian language and all schooling done in Belarusian if they want to preserve it.


I agree with you, Lukashenko is the biggest enemy of any Belarusian identity. It is shameful that there is not a single university in Belarus that teaches exclusively in Belarusian (it must be unique in the world) and that there are virtually no schools that teach in Belarusian.


These “few different holidays” are at the core of slavic traditions. The way you dismiss it makes me think that you know very little of Slavic culture.

If I may, you're making too many assumptions that I don't know anything about this and that. These holidays are peculiar events and little more, you're making them more important than they really are perhaps because they're good childhood memories. The genesis of identity in most Slavic countries is not Slavic pagan traditions but the local Christian denomination (Orthodox or Catholic) and the native language. This has been the primary source of belief in these countries since the last millennium. There is no Slavic culture that is continuous and uniform from Prague to Moscow, it's like talking about Romanesque culture and thinking that the Portuguese have the same core of beliefs as the Romanians. By the way, we also celebrate the solstice and equinox like many other ethnic groups in Europe, we just give them different names or historically metamorphosed them into Christian holidays, it's not something exclusive to the Slavs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhlbEruKenU

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231018/5f091c54a9968288ae9448c7c34ae750.jpg

Here is the traditional Portuguese solstice celebration. Doesn't look too different from the photo you posted but it has zero Slavic roots, they are Celtic instead.

[CountGrishnackh]

Removing Russian influence from Belarus will be hard, because the absolute majority of people in Belarus use Russian as their primary language and barely anyone apart from some old people and very few young nationalists use Belarusian (and even then they still use Russian), and Belarus depends on Russia too much at the moment economics-wise. For things to change Belarus will have to go through some drastic changes or a shake-up like Ukraine did. People will have to consolidate too. But the biggest obstacle is Lukashenko's Regime that currently occupies Belarus. Thankfully, most countries in the world did not recognise the results of the 2020 'elections' in Belarus and don't consider lukashenko a president. (because he isn't)

[Victor]

Removing Russian influence from Belarus will be hard, because the absolute majority of people in Belarus use Russian as their primary language and barely anyone apart from some old people and very few young nationalists use Belarusian (and even then they still use Russian), and Belarus depends on Russia too much at the moment economics-wise. For things to change Belarus will have to go through some drastic changes or a shake-up like Ukraine did. People will have to consolidate too. But the biggest obstacle is Lukashenko's Regime that currently occupies Belarus. Thankfully, most countries in the world did not recognise the results of the 2020 'elections' in Belarus and don't consider lukashenko a president. (because he isn't)

Wow I won't wish anyone such changes as happened with Ukraine since 2014.

[CountGrishnackh]

Wow I won't wish anyone such changes as happened with Ukraine since 2014.

lmao

[Vessna]

I agree with you, Lukashenko is the biggest enemy of any Belarusian identity. It is shameful that there is not a single university in Belarus that teaches exclusively in Belarusian (it must be unique in the world) and that there are virtually no schools that teach in Belarusian.



If I may, you're making too many assumptions that I don't know anything about this and that. These holidays are peculiar events and little more, you're making them more important than they really are perhaps because they're good childhood memories. The genesis of identity in most Slavic countries is not Slavic pagan traditions but the local Christian denomination (Orthodox or Catholic) and the native language. This has been the primary source of belief in these countries since the last millennium. There is no Slavic culture that is continuous and uniform from Prague to Moscow, it's like talking about Romanesque culture and thinking that the Portuguese have the same core of beliefs as the Romanians. By the way, we also celebrate the solstice and equinox like many other ethnic groups in Europe, we just give them different names or historically metamorphosed them into Christian holidays, it's not something exclusive to the Slavs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhlbEruKenU

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231018/5f091c54a9968288ae9448c7c34ae750.jpg

Here is the traditional Portuguese solstice celebration. Doesn't look too different from the photo you posted but it has zero Slavic roots, they are Celtic instead.

I am not claiming it’s exclusive to Slavs. This is a part of our tradition, something that we repeat from year to year, generation to generation. The entire year is build around it. It’s not just childhood memories, it’s a way of life.


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[Polak]

Who cares about Pole opinion while during 19 and early 20 century most of Belorussian inteligentsia considered themselves to be Western Russians, having strongly Russian identity, most of them later became part of White Movement. Also, the role of a Belorussian/Orthodox peasant is a serf of a Polish master in a system of Polish society. Plus, almost whole modern Eastern Belorussia has never been part of it, it was taken from Russia by Communists.

In February 1921, April 1924 and December 1926, part of the territory of the Russian Soviet republic, namely parts of Vitebsk (with Vitebsk), Smolensk (with Orsha), Gomel (with Gomel) provinces, were transferred to the Belarusian SSR. Thus, the territory of the BSSR more than doubled, and its eastern border began to correspond to the eastern border of modern Belarus.

Most Belarusians wouldn't have considered themselves Russian if you guys didn't russify them...

[Vessna]

Most Belarusians wouldn't have considered themselves Russian if you guys didn't russify them...

Belarusians do not consider themselves Russian


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[Polak]

Belarusians do not consider themselves Russian


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I didn't say that they do, I was replying to Victor's statement that most Belarusians in the east identify as Russians.

[Polak]

I agree with you, Lukashenko is the biggest enemy of any Belarusian identity. It is shameful that there is not a single university in Belarus that teaches exclusively in Belarusian (it must be unique in the world) and that there are virtually no schools that teach in Belarusian.



If I may, you're making too many assumptions that I don't know anything about this and that. These holidays are peculiar events and little more, you're making them more important than they really are perhaps because they're good childhood memories. The genesis of identity in most Slavic countries is not Slavic pagan traditions but the local Christian denomination (Orthodox or Catholic) and the native language. This has been the primary source of belief in these countries since the last millennium. There is no Slavic culture that is continuous and uniform from Prague to Moscow, it's like talking about Romanesque culture and thinking that the Portuguese have the same core of beliefs as the Romanians. By the way, we also celebrate the solstice and equinox like many other ethnic groups in Europe, we just give them different names or historically metamorphosed them into Christian holidays, it's not something exclusive to the Slavs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhlbEruKenU

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231018/5f091c54a9968288ae9448c7c34ae750.jpg

Here is the traditional Portuguese solstice celebration. Doesn't look too different from the photo you posted but it has zero Slavic roots, they are Celtic instead.

I agree with you 100%. Ukrainians and Belarusians tend to understate their connection to Russia and overstate their connection to Poland or Lithuania. The majority of Poles do not feel closeness to neither Ukraine nor Belarus and do not feel kinship with those people. Nobody in Poland thinks that Ukrainians or Belarusians are our sister people, aside from maybe a few ethnic Ruthenian villages right on the eastern border. Most Poles feel closer to Lithuanians and Hungarians than they do to eastern Slavs. Come to Poznan and ask the locals whether they feel closer to Belarusians or to Germans, you might be shocked! :D

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Belarusians don't consider themselves Russians, but at the same time they are complicit with their reality, which is that they are a client state of Russia with no other alternative given their autocratic regime. They are also more neutral when it comes to choosing between Moscow or the West, unlike the Ukrainians who want to get out of the shadow of Moscow's civilizational backwardness. And now that Russia has moved even more troops and nuclear warheads into Belarus, it is certain that Belarus can never or will never be a state that is not aligned with Moscow, even if the regime falls. Russians will not allow a second "Ukraine". The only way out for Belarusians is to hope that one day the current Russian regime will crumble as it did in the former USSR, in order to change the paradigm.

[Hulu]

Victor and Bras mansplaining to a Belarussian what a Belarussian is...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I agree with you 100%. Ukrainians and Belarusians tend to understate their connection to Russia and overstate their connection to Poland or Lithuania. The majority of Poles do not feel closeness to neither Ukraine nor Belarus and do not feel kinship with those people. Nobody in Poland thinks that Ukrainians or Belarusians are our sister people, aside from maybe a few ethnic Ruthenian villages right on the eastern border. Most Poles feel closer to Lithuanians and Hungarians than they do to eastern Slavs. Come to Poznan and ask the locals whether they feel closer to Belarusians or to Germans, you might be shocked! :D

Yes, I agree but the Russians also overestimate and conflate real history with imperialist revisionism to justify their criminal actions in sovereign nations such as Ukraine.

Poles from Poznan might feel closer to Germans due to proximity than to Belarus but my from my experience (having lived for a year in Poland) is that the generality of Polish people have a negative perception of Germans and Germany, so feeling closer to one or another does not necessarily tell the whole picture.

[Vessna]

I agree with you 100%. Ukrainians and Belarusians tend to understate their connection to Russia and overstate their connection to Poland or Lithuania. The majority of Poles do not feel closeness to neither Ukraine nor Belarus and do not feel kinship with those people. Nobody in Poland thinks that Ukrainians or Belarusians are our sister people, aside from maybe a few ethnic Ruthenian villages right on the eastern border. Most Poles feel closer to Lithuanians and Hungarians than they do to eastern Slavs. Come to Poznan and ask the locals whether they feel closer to Belarusians or to Germans, you might be shocked! :D

I did not state that we feel “connected” to Poles or Lithuanians. I don’t understand why there is a need to “connect” Belarusians to other Slavic nations or call “sister” people. Like why? I just pointed out my personal observations during my visits to Poland that the culture more similar than Russian. If you read my statement until the end, you would have noticed my position regarding where Belarus should be. Spoiler - not with Poland or Russia. Whether or not it’s going to happen and how soon, it’s difficult to predict. We will see after the old dictators die. Thankfully, they are both not young.


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[CountGrishnackh]

Belarusians don't consider themselves Russians, but at the same time they are complicit with their reality, which is that they are a client state of Russia with no other alternative given their autocratic regime. They are also more neutral when it comes to choosing between Moscow or the West, unlike the Ukrainians who want to get out of the shadow of Moscow's civilizational backwardness. And now that Russia has moved even more troops and nuclear warheads into Belarus, it is certain that Belarus can never or will never be a state that is not aligned with Moscow, even if the regime falls. Russians will not allow a second "Ukraine". The only way out for Belarusians is to hope that one day the current Russian regime will crumble as it did in the former USSR, in order to change the paradigm.

>They are also more neutral when it comes to choosing between Moscow or the West
Not true, Belarusians are much, much more anti-Russian (not as in russophobic, but as in anti-Putin) than they're being portrayed. Especially in the Russian media, where you can hear people say something along the lines of 'Belarus is like Russia but more Soviet' or 'Belarusian people are the last/only ally of Russia' or 'Most Belarusians love Russia and want to be a part of Russia'. Instead it's quite the opposite. Belarusian people have tried to have their own 'Maidan' several times, with the largest one taking place during the 2020 'elections' (can't even call it elections) when thousands of Belarusians poured into the streets and expressed their hate towards the pro-Moscuvite Regime currently ruled by Lukashenko. Lots of people were injured, some were killed, A LOT of people were detained and tortured, beaten, forced to get fired from their jobs, etc. Many people fled Belarus and went to Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine, etc. Some of those people who managed to escape Belarus are now fighting for Ukraine's Freedom. You can look up Belarusian divisions that are currently on Ukraine's side (spoiler: Russia has 0 Belarusian divisions on their side)

I genuinely can't wait for Belarusians to gain their independence (hopefully without joining a commie shithole like the EU) and for the Russian propaganda to have to cope with the fact that the absolute majority of Belarusians don't like Russia and don't want to have any connections with them. The damage control on that one would be so bloody hilarious to watch.

>The only way out for Belarusians is to hope that one day the current Russian regime will crumble
Unfortunately. There's also a chance that once Lukashenko dies, the power will go to someone who is currently secretly against Moscow and they would flip the table and ask the western powers for their protection in case of a Russian invasion. I'm 100% sure that the Baltic states and Poland will do everything in their power to help Belarus.
Hungarian government is a cucked pro-Putin regime too, so there's no relying on them. Even though most Hungarians would like to help Belarus.

[Vessna]

Yes, I agree but the Russians also overestimate and conflate real history with imperialist revisionism to justify their criminal actions in sovereign nations such as Ukraine.

Poles from Poznan might feel closer to Germans due to proximity than to Belarus but my from my experience (having lived for a year in Poland) is that the generality of Polish people have a negative perception of Germans and Germany, so feeling closer to one or another does not necessarily tell the whole picture.

Do Poles have a positive perception of any neighboring nation? [emoji1]


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[Ugo]

Most Belarusians wouldn't have considered themselves Russian if you guys didn't russify them...
A note about language. The medieval Belarusian language from the time of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania is closer to modern Russian than to the modern Belarusian language. Russian-speaking people understand medieval written Belarusian sources. Modern Belarusians will not understand them without knowledge of the Russian language. What is today called the Ukrainian language and the Belarusian language are Western dialects of these languages.

[CountGrishnackh]

Do Poles have a positive perception of any neighboring nation? [emoji1]


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Hungarians for sure. A lot of Poles I've spoken to were also expressing favourable opinions towards Germans and the English (probably because a lot of Poles work in both countries and have many native friends there)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Victor and Bras mansplaining to a Belarussian what a Belarussian is...

Please, I spend a lot of time talking about these kinds of topics, always with the same "tone" with everybody but the moment I do it with a woman you immediately conclude that I am being a patronizing sexist?

As for what it is to be Belarusian, I'm stating my detached opinion, which is not based on an idealized view of what it is to be Belarusian and which doesn't necessarily always correspond to reality. No one is questioning the fact that Vessna is not Belarusian.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Do Poles have a positive perception of any neighboring nation? [emoji1]


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It always depends on the person.

[Vessna]

Victor and Bras mansplaining to a Belarussian what a Belarussian is...

I am just shaking my head at this point.


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[Vessna]

Please, I spend a lot of time talking about these kinds of topics, always with the same "tone" with everybody but the moment I do it with a woman you immediately conclude that I am being a patronizing sexist?

As for what it is to be Belarusian, I'm stating my detached opinion, which is not based on an idealized view of what it is to be Belarusian and which doesn't necessarily always correspond to reality. No one is questioning the fact that Vessna is not Belarusian.

This is exactly what you are doing and topping it off with gaslighting.


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[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Don't throw idiotic and victimizing American "Social Studies" colloquialisms at me like mansplaining and gaslighting that I have to google to see what it means. It's probably the most stupid thing I've heard today and literally one of the worst aspects of Western society nowadays: "I don't like what you say and therefore you're sexist and should be canceled”. Anyone is free to disagree with me or debunk whatever I say. I don’t have to be born in any specific nation to be aware that language is literally one the most important and defying aspects of one’s culture and identity. I’m sorry that I place more emphasis on it than on holidays and that you interpret it as sexism or psychological abuse…actually, I am not sorry because I haven’t done any of that.

[Vessna]

Don't throw idiotic and victimizing American "Social Studies" colloquialisms at me like mansplaining and gaslighting that I have to google to see what it means. It's probably the most stupid thing I've heard today and literally one of the worst aspects of Western society nowadays: "I don't like what you say and therefore you're sexist and should be canceled”. Anyone is free to disagree with me or debunk whatever I say. I don’t have to be born in any specific nation to be aware that language is literally one the most important and defying aspects of one’s culture and identity. I’m sorry that I place more emphasis on it than on holidays and that you interpret it as sexism or psychological abuse…actually, I am not sorry because I haven’t done any of that.

On the bright side, at least you learned something new :) it was a joke btw


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[Hulu]

Don't throw idiotic and victimizing American "Social Studies" colloquialisms at me like mansplaining and gaslighting that I have to google to see what it means. It's probably the most stupid thing I've heard today and literally one of the worst aspects of Western society nowadays: "I don't like what you say and therefore you're sexist and should be canceled”. Anyone is free to disagree with me or debunk whatever I say. I don’t have to be born in any specific nation to be aware that language is literally one the most important and defying aspects of one’s culture and identity. I’m sorry that I place more emphasis on it than on holidays and that you interpret it as sexism or psychological abuse…actually, I am not sorry because I haven’t done any of that.

It was half a joke but boy are you bitter for real. smh

[Abriekman]

Deleted

[Peterski]

Check what he says at 5:38 of the video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFWMi96JIR8