An ethnic Dutch plotting near Polish

[reboun]

Let me tell you how is it possible:

An offspring takes 50% of their genes from their mother and 50% of their genes from their mother randomly. This means that the offspring can be genetically more eastern/western/northern/southern shifted than both of their parents if the offspring took the suitable genes combination. Say, two ethnic Dutch person marries and as a coincidence, their offspring get more eastern-like genes from both of their parents and therefore plots slightly eastern-shifted than their parents on population PCA chart. If this trend goes for many generations, the new generations will begin to plot more eastern and they will get further away from Dutch cluster and become closer to Germans, Polish, Czech and etc, even though they are all ethnic Dutch people with no foreign roots.

I have given the scenario above just as an example. It is always possible that an ethnic Italian clustering with Germans, an ethnic Swede clustering with Russians, an ethnic Armenian clustering with Greek people and etc.

To sum up: Genetics is a kind of lottery. Even though someone is of X ethnicity, due to the genetic lottery, that person can genetically be in the same cluster with people of Y ethnicity, Z ethnicity or another ethnicity.

I have told my theory to one of my friends who studies genetics and she approved me. She also thinks that genetics cannot determine one's ethnic origin.

[Katarzyna]

Well it can not exactly determine your origins but it can give you an idea. But for that you have to take MANY different calcs (not only G25 scaled), also some directly derived from raw data and compare it with several G25 calcs.

A Dutch Person plotting as an artificial Polish is actually not so uncommon. It can happen when the parents have some distant ancestors from lets Russia they don’t know about so the distance between all locations becomes Poland.
But telling someone’s ethnicity from phenotypes is bullshit according to me. Because a couple of weeks ago I let my friend (half Dutch and half Western German) classify and passify on TA. They said that he looks Polish or Ukrainian and classified him as Gorid. But maybe it’s because alpine individuals generally look very much alike and have features and look closer to each other than other phenotypes represented in their country.

[Grace O'Malley]

People of the same ethnicity i.e. the ones with long term ethnicity in a country will plot together some might be a bit more shifted towards one neighbouring population but they will all form a fairly continuous cluster. This is if they all have much the same origins. I know there are differences between even small populations i.e. North and South Dutch but nothing extreme. A Dutch person plotting with Polish would make it appear that they have some non-Dutch ancestry. That would be the logical conclusion. They would be an outlier in a genetic sense.

Distant ancestry wouldn't really be a factor as populations overtime will end up similar. A great great great grandparent for example would most probably not make much difference as all the other ancestors would be of the same ethnicity so unless there was quite a large migration it would not affect someone after a few hundred years.

There is a range in populations but not where someone would plot well out of the cluster.

[rothaer]

Let me tell you how is it possible:

An offspring takes 50% of their genes from their mother and 50% of their genes from their mother randomly. This means that the offspring can be genetically more eastern/western/northern/southern shifted than both of their parents if the offspring took the suitable genes combination. Say, two ethnic Dutch person marries and as a coincidence, their offspring get more eastern-like genes from both of their parents and therefore plots slightly eastern-shifted than their parents on population PCA chart. If this trend goes for many generations, the new generations will begin to plot more eastern and they will get further away from Dutch cluster and become closer to Germans, Polish, Czech and etc, even though they are all ethnic Dutch people with no foreign roots.

I have given the scenario above just as an example. It is always possible that an ethnic Italian clustering with Germans, an ethnic Swede clustering with Russians, an ethnic Armenian clustering with Greek people and etc.

To sum up: Genetics is a kind of lottery. Even though someone is of X ethnicity, due to the genetic lottery, that person can genetically be in the same cluster with people of Y ethnicity, Z ethnicity or another ethnicity.

I have told my theory to one of my friends who studies genetics and she approved me. She also thinks that genetics cannot determine one's ethnic origin.

This is a thought that does not take into account the probabilities and is completely irrelevant and practically nonsense.

It would not happen in one million years that there would emerge an individual with common Dutch only ancestors that would plot like a Pole, f. i. in the G25 North Europe PCA.

It is the same like saying that there can emerge a 30% Neandtherthal among humans as in total there is about 30% of the Neanderthal genome preserved in the humanity and all this DNA could be chance again find together in one human. This is true theroretically and because of the probabilities completely irrelevant and practically nonsense. To my knowledge there is not even found an individual that comes close to 4% Neanderthal.
Or the same as saying that two (normal, not twins) siblings can have by chance the identical DNA.

Another thing may be applicable for an individual that neatly is ethnic Dutch and has 1/4 Russian ancestry and a lot of such individuals mix. Then can plotting lika a full Pole an as extreme being within the spread for someone after some generations. But such a constellation is not what you are referring to.

[~Elizabeth~]

The so-called ethnic Dutch person plotting as Polish is probably Polish but was adopted or has NPE's in his or her tree.

Lots of Eastern Europeans flooded to the Netherlands to immigrate to America but many didn't make it to America and instead stayed in the Netherlands, especially the port cities like Rotterdam.

[Russki]

https://sun9-10.userapi.com/impg/L0iEhN3hxmOjGh50XEvrfZHfHUKBuShCQc-h7g/emRUj9jvtlk.jpg?size=1710x861&quality=95&sign=ad0fdb87db7861cc82e62f358739e930&type=album

[Peterski]

It would not happen in one million years that there would emerge an individual with common Dutch only ancestors that would plot like a Pole, f. i. in the G25 North Europe PCA.

It actually took just abt. 3500 or 4000 years for Poles and Dutch to diverge from common CWC ancestors and drift away to their current PCA positions.

[rothaer]

It actually took just abt. 3500 or 4000 years for Poles and Dutch to diverge from common CWC ancestors and drift away to their current PCA positions.

The OP spoke of sheer recombination within some generations and then having individuals that plot like Poles while the other Dutch keep their genetics and do plot where Dutch do plot (like they do today). It's impossible to achieve such an extreme within the gaussian-like genetic spread of Dutch. If we presuppose the today conditions then this would not happen even if we tried a million years.

Another story is when we deal with a selective evolutionary process that effects the whole population. For that is true what you said. It can drift as a whole to here or to there. But also here then is still applicable what I said, i. e. you will not have someone that far outside the gaussian-like spread of the population's genetics. But exactly that is the OP's plot. He refers to a obviously not particularly experienced with these things geneticist that has the opinion that you generally can not tell apart various ethnicities because the common genetic spread is too big. But in fact the spread, causing overlaps, it is not that big between all population but it's essentially restricted to more or less neighbouring ones. I mean, we have no different opinions on this as be both know how various individuals do plot in the North Europe PCA f. i.

How many testees do you need till you find an overlap of a Spaniard and a Pole, that both have recent indigenous ancestry only?

[rothaer]

https://sun9-10.userapi.com/impg/L0iEhN3hxmOjGh50XEvrfZHfHUKBuShCQc-h7g/emRUj9jvtlk.jpg?size=1710x861&quality=95&sign=ad0fdb87db7861cc82e62f358739e930&type=album

Yeah, yeah, lol. :)

I correct Russian to Polish or Ukrainian.

[Eurafricanid]

This is impossible to happen. It whould be similar to, two parents that are both half Irish and half Russian having a full bloded Irish and a full blodded Russian out of pure luck! The principle is the same.

[Katarzyna]

https://sun9-10.userapi.com/impg/L0iEhN3hxmOjGh50XEvrfZHfHUKBuShCQc-h7g/emRUj9jvtlk.jpg?size=1710x861&quality=95&sign=ad0fdb87db7861cc82e62f358739e930&type=album

Actually with my official AncestryDNA coords I come very close to that xD

https://i.ibb.co/njSDLFK/IMG-3122.jpg (https://ibb.co/2dBjkTp)

[J. Ketch]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, or even just one example. None exist.