To defame religion is a human right

[Thorum]

Can you believe this:

"Last month, the UN human rights council adopted a resolution (http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1285603&content_id=%7BAF491436-ED3D-46F5-8CC4-E14577482787%7D&notoc=1) condemning 'defamation of religion (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/mar/18/freedom-of-religion-human-rights)' as a human rights violation. According to the text of the resolution, 'Defamation of religion is a serious affront to human dignity' that leads to 'a restriction on the freedom of [religions'] adherents.'"

or better yet:

Brainless bishop blames atheists for Nazi atrocities (http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/04/15/brainless-bishop-blames-atheists-for-nazi-atrocities/)

Barry Duke on April 15th, 2009

IN an Easter Sunday sermon warning of the rising tide of atheism in Germany, the Catholic bishop of Augsburg linked the crimes of Nazi and Communist regimes to godlessness.

http://freethinker.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mixta.jpg Bishop Mixa: crap at history

"Wherever God is denied or fought against, their people and their dignity will soon be denied and held in disregard."
Walter Mixa also said that 'a society without God is hell on earth' and quoted the Russian author Fyodor Dostoyevsky:

"If God does not exist, everything is permitted."
He added:

"In the last century, the godless regimes of Nazism and Communism, with their penal camps, their secret police and their mass murder, proved in a terrible way the inhumanity of atheism in practice."
Comforting to some, irrational to many. Sickening to me.

[Gooding]

Ignorance based on fear is an ugly thing and it leads people to say and do ugly things..

[Gooding]

This conversation needs to happen.We're always and forever talking about logic and reason and then cling to fantasies and demand encouragement under the cloak of "religious tolerance" for whatever half cocked ideas that we can base loosely on an antiquated collection of documents and archaeology.Why not defame a collection of superstitions that goad people on to hate and kill others?

[Maelstrom]

Human Rights are nothing more than ambiguous moral concepts.

[Rainraven]

Why not defame a collection of superstitions that goad people on to hate and kill others?

Because the hating and killing that they do is the defamation of another religion and if we would all stop then perhaps there would be no more religious battles? :rolleyes:

In an ideal world perhaps this it what it is trying to achieve :)

[Birka]

Are you allowed to criticize your own religion? Or just not allowed to criticize other religions?

[Loddfafner]

Blasphemy is a form of prayer.

[Gooding]

What if all there were to religion was a simple statement of gratitude to Nature without any supernatural hocus pocus?What if blots and sumbels were simply poetic ways of thanking the forces of nature and our ancestors that we are who and what we are?Even if our ancestors "exist" on a plane outside of family lore and genetic imprints on us, how relevant is it to us?What if all prayer really was was our addressing the better aspects of ourselves and drawing those out to do a job we need to get done? Why criticize others when I am almost too big of a project for me to work on?

[Beorn]

Why defame other people's religion? Are people that insecure and twisted that they have to go out of their way to be nasty?

Take this for example

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/01/07/world/europe/lede_bus.480.jpg

Isn't that a lovely and quaint picture! Mr.Dawkins standing there proudly under his new and pioneering slogan of anti-religion.

What's next, Mr. Dawkins.

CHILDREN! FATHER CHRISTMAS DOES NOT EXIST!
NOW STOP WORRYING AND ENJOY THE FESTIVE SEASON!


It should be made a law that anyone sad and pathetic enough to wantonly ruin someones belief system, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, atheism, should be hit, HARD across the face with a big fat STFU!

[Skandi]

I believe that was in "retaliation" against them putting up posters saying that if you don't believe you are going to hell, is that not ruining other peoples belief systems?

[Beorn]

I believe that was in "retaliation" against them putting up posters saying that if you don't believe you are going to hell, is that not ruining other peoples belief systems?

Yes, it is. But you are assuming that I would not like to smack them with the STFU hand too.

:)

[Jägerstaffel]

Does this surprise anyone? Have atheists been anything but hated since ummm... the first theist made any gods up anyways?

Forget it. Move on with your lives. So a religionist says one thing. They've been saying things that the majority of rational people have been ignoring since the dawn of rational thought.

[Thorum]

“Islam makes very large claims for itself. In its art, there is a prejudice against representing the human form at all. The prohibition on picturing the prophet – who was only another male mammal – is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent.” [Hitchens]

“A person who believes that Elvis is still alive is very unlikely to get promoted to a position of great power and responsibility in our society. Neither will a person who believes that the holocaust was a hoax. But people who believe equally irrational things about God and the bible are now running our country. This is genuinely terrifying.” [Harris]

Great quotes, yeah? Or do they bother you because they are not nice to religion?

[Skandi]

I am religious, and neither quote bothers me, because both are true, humans are as humans are and I see no need to make apologies for it.

[Thorum]

Here is a good, 10 minute snapshot of the UN blasphemy issue:

FRb2OKPBswM

Unfortunately, religions such as Islam, Christianity and Judaism, which are not native European religions, still continue their insidous invasion and shove their values and morals on the native population.

Another example:

"In God We Trust"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg)

[Thorum]

Wait, there's more (http://richarddawkins.net/article,3128,Turkey-bans-biologist-Richard-Dawkins-website,Monsters-and-Critics).

Turkey has banned accessing Richard Dawkin's website ever since "complaints from lawyers for Islamic creationist author Adnan Oktar....Oktar complained he and his creationist book 'Atlas of Creation' had been defamed by comments made by Dawkins on the site. The book has caused controversy not just through its advocation of creationism but also through how thousands of copies of book were distributed to schools in a number of European countries."

AND from another source:

"A Turkish court has banned internet users from viewing the official Richard Dawkins website after a Muslim creationist claimed its contents were defamatory and blasphemous.
Adnan Oktar, who writes under the pen name of Harun Yahya, complained that Dawkins, a fierce critic of creationism and intelligent design, had insulted him in comments made on forums and blogs.
According to Oktar's office, Istanbul's second criminal court of peace banned the site earlier this month on the grounds that it 'violated' Oktar's personality.
His press assistant, Seda Aral, said: 'We are not against freedom of speech or expression but you cannot insult people.'"

You cannot insult people. Hmmmm, who does that sound like?

[SwordoftheVistula]

Another example:

"In God We Trust"


That sort of thing doesn't really bother me, since it's not hurting anyone to have that, 'one nation under god', 10 commandments in court buildings, etc.

What bothers me is when criticism of a religion such Islam, Christianity, the Holocaust or Global Warming is banned, or when public policy is fomented based on religious beliefs (example: Iraq War).

As far as public displays go, we are a democracy, so if the majority of people are Christian, then a Christmas tree is fine. They should make a rule that no religion which is outnumbered by atheists may display their symbols on public property, that way we can have Christmas trees but not all these menorahs and crap.

[Thorum]

As far as public displays go, we are a democracy, so if the majority of people are Christian, then a Christmas tree is fine. They should make a rule that no religion which is outnumbered by atheists may display their symbols on public property, that way we can have Christmas trees but not all these menorahs and crap.

"They" did make a rule, it's called the First Amendment to the United States' Constitution; the Separation of Church and State.

[Manifest Destiny]

Unfortunately, religions such as Islam, Christianity and Judaism, which are not native European religions, still continue their insidous invasion and shove their values and morals on the native population.

Another example:

"In God We Trust"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg)

As an Odinist living in a predominantly Christian nation, I can understand what it's like to have one's beliefs ignored and would like to help you out. Please gather all of your money that has a religious reference on it and send it to me. Hopefully this will ease your suffering. :thumbs up

[Thorum]

I can understand what it's like to have one's beliefs ignored and would like to help you out.

I would be glad to but there is one problem, I don't have any "beliefs" as you describe. You are the one with "beliefs". :thumbs up

[Manifest Destiny]

I would be glad to but there is one problem, I don't have any "beliefs" as you describe. You are the one with "beliefs". :thumbs up

If you're an atheist, you believe there are no gods, goddesses or supreme beings.

[Galloglaich]

I'm not even an atheist and I think people should be encouraged to criticize whatever they want whenever they want. So what, someone else thinks something different than you do,...big deal. What's it gonna do, kill you? I thought that was what "faith" was all about anyway. To me religion (or whatever fulfills that role in your life) is a way for the external/manifest man to relate to internal cosmological/spiritual realities inherent to existence. The cosmos is a big strange place. Some people relate in different ways. It's all about what relates for you.

Side note, ...most proclaimed atheists that I know are people who have elevated the rational, scientific-empirical mindset to that of a religion anyway. To me, that's a valid viewpoint that has good potential to enable valuable understanding of the "meaning" of man's existence. Go for it.

[Thorum]

Today is National Blasphemy Day (http://www.limerickblogger.ie/blog/2009/05/national-blasphemy-day?dsq=9308287#comment-9308287)!! YAY!!! My kind of holiday. Speech!! Speech!! I am sure this gentleman will burn in hell or something like that for his blasphemous words...

L-jk3VvjGoE

Landover Baptist Church (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/)

[Beorn]

Sounds like a good idea. :)

Whilst we're at it, we could have a "f**k your mother" day! Perhaps a "Go suck my d**k you faggot" day! Or, and this is my favourite, "I'm going to tell your child her parents are dead and that no one loves her because she is a stinky f***ing whore with no friends" day.

I think the last one might be exceptionally popular, but the name needs refining.
It's not got that 'whizz-whazz' about it. Know what I mean?

[lei.talk]

I am unwilling to attribute bad designs, deliberate wickedness, to you or to any man; I cannot avoid believing, that you think you have truth on your side, and that you are doing service to mankind in endeavouring to root out what you esteem superstition. What I blame you for is this—that you have attempted to lessen the authority of the Bible by ridicule, more than by reason.
- Richard Watson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Reason#Irreverent_tone)

[Angantyr]

Hmmmm. My religion tells me that all non-Europeans are subhuman and they are fit to be treated like cattle. And anyone who says anything to diagree with this is defaming my religion and must be subject to the full weight of the law. Any black who says that he is not subhuman defames my religion and must be subject to fines and incarceration. Any politician who says diversity is good must equally be subject to fines and incarceration. My religion tells me that all other gods are false gods. And anyone proclaiming that Allah is a god is defaming my religion. I am beginning to like this idea.

[Cato]

When does criticism cross the line into browbeating and bullying? I've met folks on both sides, atheists and religionists, who've tastelessly abused and denigrated their opponents like schoolyard brawlers.

[Psychonaut]

When does criticism cross the line into browbeating and bullying? I've met folks on both sides, atheists and religionists, who've tastelessly abused and denigrated their opponents like schoolyard brawlers.

So what? If you don't want to listen to what a person says, you're free to walk away. Thankfully, we're allowed to be as coarse and vile in our speech as we wish in the US. There are always social penalties to pay for being a dick, but thank goodness we're not leaping back into the Middle Ages like the Irish are with their new blasphemy laws.

[Jägerstaffel]

It depends on how you view the whole subject and how it's affected you and how you perceive that it affects the world around you.

Many non-religionists feel slighted by those who are religionists and force their religion on others and onto society as a whole(whether this is real or imagined is another discussion) and many religionists feel non-religionists are taking their god-given rights away to practice their faith.

It's all about context, folks.

If you're an atheist and you feel that because (say you're an American) that your children are forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance - UNDER GOD - in public school - that society is forcing something you truly believe to be false and harmful - then of course you're going to be outraged.

And if you're a Christian and you feel that you can't open a newspaper without hearing about some godless atheist trying to remove your right to worship - aren't you going to view them as the aggressor?

Read between the lines - don't just get offended at the words on the page. Try to think about why whoever said them SAID THEM.

[Cato]

Thankfully, we're allowed to be as coarse and vile in our speech as we wish in the US.

Is that how you interpret freedom of speech?

[Psychonaut]

Is that how you interpret freedom of speech?


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That's a part of it, yes. An abridgment of speech, regardless what type of speech, or how that speech makes people feel, is still an abridgment and is (or, according to the 1st Amendment, should be) outside of Congress' power to legislate.

[Murphy]

To put it simply, if your religion is true, then it should be able to stand up to criticism and fair analyzation.

Regards,
Eóin.