K13 results - romanian

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

Hello lads,

I know I'm probably off topic , but please bear with me until I get more familiarized with the site since I'm a bit of newgaf. Long story short I just got myself a DNA test from 23andme which I've uploaded it into GEDmatch and myheritage. For 23and me I got 86% Greek & Balkan, 13% Eastern European and 1% Mongolian/Siberian. After that I've uploaded the raw data on My heritage and I got 56% Balkan, 33& Greek and South Italian and 11% Northwestern European...
The Gedmatch results on K13 on my kit HG4354495 are the following (feel free to use it as you see fit):


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.4
2 North_Atlantic 21.92
3 East_Med 18.05
4 West_Med 14.26
5 West_Asian 11.68
6 Red_Sea 2.65
7 Oceanian 1.12
8 Siberian 0.62
9 Amerindian 0.46
10 East_Asian 0.43
11 South_Asian 0.27
12 Northeast_African 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.99
2 Bulgarian 5.49
3 Serbian 5.71
4 Moldavian 8.59
5 Croatian 11.62
6 Hungarian 12.47
7 Greek_Thessaly 14
8 Austrian 16.31
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.46
10 East_German 17.81
11 South_Polish 18.43
12 Ukrainian 18.79
13 Tuscan 20.02
14 North_Italian 20.31
15 Italian_Abruzzo 20.35
16 Central_Greek 20.6
17 Southwest_Russian 21.11
18 Ukrainian_Belgorod 21.24
19 West_German 21.3
20 East_Sicilian 21.85

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.8% Central_Greek + 49.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.39
2 65.4% South_Polish + 34.6% Cyprian @ 1.4
3 50.6% Central_Greek + 49.4% Southwest_Russian @ 1.4
4 54.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 45.8% South_Italian @ 1.49
5 77.6% Croatian + 22.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 1.66
6 82.6% Moldavian + 17.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 1.78
7 50.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.3% East_Sicilian @ 1.81
8 54.3% Southwest_Russian + 45.7% South_Italian @ 1.82
9 58.5% Central_Greek + 41.5% Lithuanian @ 1.86
10 53.2% Central_Greek + 46.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.92
11 78.3% Croatian + 21.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.96
12 54.3% Central_Greek + 45.7% Belorussian @ 2.02
13 60.4% Greek_Thessaly + 39.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.1
14 61.5% Polish + 38.5% Cyprian @ 2.1
15 50.9% Southwest_Russian + 49.1% East_Sicilian @ 2.11
16 75.2% Croatian + 24.8% Cyprian @ 2.15
17 53.8% Central_Greek + 46.2% Estonian_Polish @ 2.22
18 80.8% Bulgarian + 19.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.24
19 76% Croatian + 24% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.25
20 80.8% Bulgarian + 19.2% Southwest_Russian @ 2.31

Can someone please explain to me how do I cluster with the current balkan populations? Is a 50% baltic+north atlantic average, or above average for this region? Honestly I don't know what the hell I am , most I can understand from my results, in a very broad way , is that I'm a mongrel which stands at half distance between greeks and slavs..

Thank you in advance guys and sorry for this random post, but I'm a bit stuck in this rabbithole

[Jana]

are you from Moldovan part of Romania? Your results with updated calc

Distance to: Ghitza_von_Pigsty

2.93392229 Moldovan_South
4.22880598 Serb_SouthSerbia
4.46742655 Romanian_Moldavia_South
4.47649416 Bulgarian_Northwestern
4.83699287 Romanian_Moldavia_Central
4.95421033 Romanian_Banat
4.98192734 Serb_EastSerbia
5.01638316 Romanian_Transylvania
5.04416495 Romanian_Dobruja
5.25297059 Serb_Vojvodina
5.30158467 Romanian_Muntenia
5.30925607 Romanian_Crişana
5.37073552 Pomak_Bulgaria
5.53519647 Bulgarian_Northcentral
5.68587724 Romanian_Oltenia
5.72555674 Vlach_Serbia
5.75094775 Moldovan_Central
5.85232432 Pomak_Greece
5.86627650 Bulgarian_Southwestern
5.95734001 Bosniak_Sandzak_West
5.96056205 Serb_KosovoMetohija
5.99241187 Serb_Herzegovina
5.99961665 Serb_Dalmatia
6.00003333 Serb_BosanskaKrajina
6.03126852 Serb_Lika

Target: Ghitza_von_Pigsty
Distance: 1.2064% / 1.20636867 | R2P

72.4 Romanian_Ukraine
27.6 Greek_Istanbul

[Cybele]

Is a 50% baltic+north atlantic average, or above average for this region?

Hello, welcome (cool nickname) :)!

This is the Romanian population Spreadsheet for Eurogenes K13.

1 North_Atlantic 24.37
2 Baltic 24.49
3 West_Med 17.09
4 West_Asian 11.28
5 East_Med 18.04
6 Red_Sea 2.14
7 South_Asian 0.55
8 East_Asian 0.27
9 Siberian 0.83
10 Amerindian 0.60
11 Oceanian 0.18
12 Northeast_African 0.09
13 Sub-Saharan 0.06

Your results look close to the average in Ro, but you have a bit more Baltic.

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

[QUOTE=Jana;7792948]are you from Moldovan part of Romania? Your results with updated calc

Yep, quite spot on. I'm from southern Moldavia. Thanks a lot Jana :)
Also do you have any idea what that Baltic and North Atlantic really mean? Is it literally North European descent or could it be linked to Hunter gatherer/Yamnaya heritage? I'm kinda new to this and I'm really trying to make sense of these percentages. As reference here's the breakdown for Eurogenes_ANE K7:
ANE 14.55 Pct
ASE 1.94 Pct
WHG-UHG 48.07 Pct
East_Eurasian 0.95 Pct
West_African 0.82 Pct
East_African -
ENF 33.68 Pct

Could the European neolithic farmer overlap with my eastmed/westmed/westasian components, while the ANF and WHG overlap with the Baltic + N.Atlantic Component?

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

Hello, welcome (cool nickname) :)!

This is the Romanian population Spreadsheet for Eurogenes K13.

1 North_Atlantic 24.37
2 Baltic 24.49
3 West_Med 17.09
4 West_Asian 11.28
5 East_Med 18.04
6 Red_Sea 2.14
7 South_Asian 0.55
8 East_Asian 0.27
9 Siberian 0.83
10 Amerindian 0.60
11 Oceanian 0.18
12 Northeast_African 0.09
13 Sub-Saharan 0.06

Your results look close to the average in Ro, but you have a bit more Baltic.

Thanks a lot Cybele, yeah it seems so..One thing I'm not getting though, is why do i Cluster so far from RO on the K13 3d plot..Am I reading it the wrong way, or..?
123074

[Cybele]

Thanks a lot Cybele, yeah it seems so..One thing I'm not getting though, is why do i Cluster so far from RO on the K13 3d plot..Am I reading it the wrong way, or..?
123074
I believe is because your result is a bit closer to the Slavic results (e.g. Ukrainian) than the average Romanian. The Romanian in the 3d plot is a bit more southern shifted.

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

I believe is because your result is a bit closer to the Slavic results (e.g. Ukrainian) than the average Romanian. The Romanian in the 3d plot is a bit more southern shifted.

Yeah it makes sense...Thanks a lot, Cybele :)

[Tommie]

...
You probably have some distant Ukrainian/Slavic ancestry down there. Do you have any known foreign ancestor?

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

You probably have some distant Ukrainian/Slavic ancestry down there. Do you have any known foreign ancestor?

Uhm, not that I'm aware of. On my dad's side I heard from an uncle that we have some distant hungarian and serbian ancestry although I don't have any records to confirm this. For what is worth my dad's paternal side relatives (2nd degree cousins, aunts and uncles) all look like the stereotypical west slavic phenotype . Same thing on my moms maternal side. The other branches of my family are on the swarthy side, typical mediterranean phenotype. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel any prejudice about that, I'm just describing how it is..

[Tommie]

Uhm, not that I'm aware of. On my dad's side I heard from an uncle that we have some distant hungarian and serbian ancestry although I don't have any records to confirm this. For what is worth my dad's paternal side relatives (2nd degree cousins, aunts and uncles) all look like the stereotypical west slavic phenotype . Same thing on my moms maternal side. The other branches of my family are on the swarthy side, typical mediterranean phenotype. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel any prejudice about that, I'm just describing how it is..
That's interesting! Thank you for your reply :)

[Nausevar]

You get romanian at 1st place. You are well within the mean.

[MandM]

Whe and if you have money amd want of course, go to illustratedDNA, there you can get your G25 coords, and additional info about your ancient heritage, but the coords are the most importen, there are more calculators with these coords, and many belive they are better then eurogene k13

[Nurzat]

bro, Moldovans include extra Slavic compared to Romanians in other regions just because Vlachs found Slavs on here when they arrived, so you don't need actual recent Slavic ancestry to score more Baltic, this region always scored more Baltic than the rest of Romania, except for other border areas bordering Ukrainians (Maramures and Tulcea) where there's an East Slavic substrate as well.

so your results don't seem to be outstanding at all for your region, southern Moldova - if you'd be from central or northern Moldova you'd score even more or much more Baltic, I know Botosani and Suceava people without known Ukrainian ancestry that score 35% Baltic, for example, so it's a gradient of Baltic DNA in Moldova from south to north, which of course points to real ancestry, but it can be very old, could be 700 years old, when Vlachs started to settle the area, where they found also some Slavs, among other populations, like Cumans/Tatars (where you get your 1% Mongolic, which on G25 coords will probably be more than that) etc

[dviz]

bro, Moldovans include extra Slavic compared to Romanians in other regions just because Vlachs found Slavs on here when they arrived, so you don't need actual recent Slavic ancestry to score more Baltic, this region always scored more Baltic than the rest of Romania, except for other border areas bordering Ukrainians (Maramures and Tulcea) where there's an East Slavic substrate as well.

so your results don't seem to be outstanding at all for your region, southern Moldova - if you'd be from central or northern Moldova you'd score even more or much more Baltic, I know Botosani and Suceava people without known Ukrainian ancestry that score 35% Baltic, for example, so it's a gradient of Baltic DNA in Moldova from south to north, which of course points to real ancestry, but it can be very old, could be 700 years old, when Vlachs started to settle the area, where they found also some Slavs, among other populations, like Cumans/Tatars (where you get your 1% Mongolic, which on G25 coords will probably be more than that) etc

Nonsense, Vlachs are local, it's the Slavs who migrated in the area (to some degree). Even Slavs say that.

In reality, proto-Slavic language and culture was a koine/market language/culture of several non-Slavic tribes who merged at the contact point. This is why Slavs are not mentioned anywhere before the 4-6th century, simply because this is exactly when this culture formed (and formalized by the Byzantines for political reasons). This does not mean that there was no migration during the so-called "Slavic migration". The Baltic component in Southeastern Europe has increased from 10% during classical antiquity to 20% after the Slavic migration. But migrations have always happened in this area in both directions (even though for a long while the prevailing migration wind has been from East to West).

This is why Slavs outside the Balkans have a clear Balkan element. You can find it from Poland to Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.

[Aspirin]

because Vlachs found Slavs on here when they arrived,

Is the other way around, Slavs came after Vlachs here. There are no evidence of any Slavic cities or villages here before mid 14th century. Slavs were just colonists here, who were encouraged by early Moldavian rulers to settle on new, conquered from Steppe nomads, territories. With time they assimilated and becoming part of local peasantry. Miron Costin very well explained how this colonisation happen, mentioning and other ethnic elements like Hungarian and Germanic ones, who helped in fondation and development of Moldavian medieval cities.

[Cybele]

Whe and if you have money amd want of course, go to illustratedDNA, there you can get your G25 coords, and additional info about your ancient heritage, but the coords are the most importen, there are more calculators with these coords, and many belive they are better then eurogene k13

Is IllustrativeDNA company trustable and are the coordinates result accurate? What's your opinion?

[MandM]

Is IllustrativeDNA company trustable and are the coordinates result accurate? What's your opinion?
In my opinion its the best we got at the moment, its seems like it works for the majority of people, it is of course like all coordinates they are more accurate if one is not mixed, i do recommend it, and I belive its not that expencive, like 20 something euros,.. If you are intrested and you have 20-25 euros tonspare, you can allways go to that site, you just upload your raw dna file pay and 1-3 days after you have them, and some other interesting information

[Far_away]

Whe and if you have money amd want of course, go to illustratedDNA, there you can get your G25 coords, and additional info about your ancient heritage, but the coords are the most importen, there are more calculators with these coords, and many belive they are better then eurogene k13

there will be update next week :)

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

Thanks for the tip! I'll definetly give it a shot

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

bro, Moldovans include extra Slavic compared to Romanians in other regions just because Vlachs found Slavs on here when they arrived, so you don't need actual recent Slavic ancestry to score more Baltic, this region always scored more Baltic than the rest of Romania, except for other border areas bordering Ukrainians (Maramures and Tulcea) where there's an East Slavic substrate as well.

so your results don't seem to be outstanding at all for your region, southern Moldova - if you'd be from central or northern Moldova you'd score even more or much more Baltic, I know Botosani and Suceava people without known Ukrainian ancestry that score 35% Baltic, for example, so it's a gradient of Baltic DNA in Moldova from south to north, which of course points to real ancestry, but it can be very old, could be 700 years old, when Vlachs started to settle the area, where they found also some Slavs, among other populations, like Cumans/Tatars (where you get your 1% Mongolic, which on G25 coords will probably be more than that) etc

So it's safe to assume that we're some kind of slavo-med mutts?

[Cybele]

So it's safe to assume that we're some kind of slavo-med mutts?
Paleo-Balkanic plus Slavs, but also some other populations in smaller percentages.

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

Whe and if you have money amd want of course, go to illustratedDNA, there you can get your G25 coords, and additional info about your ancient heritage, but the coords are the most importen, there are more calculators with these coords, and many belive they are better then eurogene k13

Hi Milenko,

First of all, thanks a lot for your advice about Illustrative, I've done it, got my coordinates, checked the PCA plot I got from them and it seems much more accurate than the McDonald 3d PCA (to say at least). I wonder though, any idea why there's such a big difference between these 2 plots? Am I missing something or what...?

Here's the results from both of them:

Illustrative DNA:

123442

McDonald 3dPCA:

123443

[MandM]

Hi Milenko,

First of all, thanks a lot for your advice about Illustrative, I've done it, got my coordinates, checked the PCA plot I got from them and it seems much more accurate than the McDonald 3d PCA (to say at least). I wonder though, any idea why there's such a big difference between these 2 plots? Am I missing something or what...?

Here's the results from both of them:

Illustrative DNA:

123442

McDonald 3dPCA:

123443

If it would be maby a slightly diffrence i would say it could depends on how many people day have from each country to make an average or if they used maby many mixed people, but with this i dont know

[ScandinavianCelt]

I matched your kit to mine and we share quite a bit of DNA-- shared on 16 of 22 chromosomes! Interesting.

Results say this:

Largest segment = 4.6 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 122cM (3.401 Pct)

34 shared segments found for this comparison.

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

Aaa ok, got it. Thanks Milenko! :)

[Ghitza von Pigsty]

I matched your kit to mine and we share quite a bit of DNA-- shared on 16 of 22 chromosomes! Interesting.

Results say this:

Largest segment = 4.6 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 122cM (3.401 Pct)

34 shared segments found for this comparison.

Interesting! Who knows , we probably share some distant ancestor somewhere down the line and given the region I live in, I wouldn't be surprised. Thanks for taking your time to run my kit :beer: