Gedmatch results of two Kabyles. They are one of the most Western-shifted Kabyles I can find. [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 10:15 AM

They seem to be more Eurasian than most Berbers. Don't know if they have recent South Euro or Ottoman ancestry or if there is some genetic variation and diversity among various Kabyle tribes/groups themselves.

1. This person looks white and have Southern Euro or even French kinda vibe. Don't know where in Kabylia he is from.

In Eurogenes K13, around 14.84% of his autosomal DNA seems to be indigenous to the African continent (most of it is Iberomaurusian it seems), which is less than most Berbers. According to mixed mode population sharing, he also can be modelled as approximately 25-30% Southern Euro which corresponds to his 4 population oracle, where there is one Iberian/Basque in each models.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 26.63
2 East_Med 25.65
3 North_Atlantic 18.89
4 Red_Sea 12.05
5 Northeast_African 9.97
6 Sub-Saharan 4.87
7 Oceanian 1.62
8 Baltic 0.29
9 Siberian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian 11.19
2 Moroccan 11.31
3 Mozabite_Berber 12.09
4 Tunisian 12.65
5 West_Sicilian 17.59
6 Algerian_Jewish 17.99
7 Libyan_Jewish 19.13
8 Italian_Jewish 19.35
9 East_Sicilian 19.6
10 Tuscan 19.64
11 Sephardic_Jewish 19.78
12 Tunisian_Jewish 20.17
13 South_Italian 20.24
14 Ashkenazi 20.72
15 Italian_Abruzzo 21.32
16 Central_Greek 21.9
17 North_Italian 22.68
18 Greek_Thessaly 23.26
19 Egyptian 24.66
20 Spanish_Extremadura 25.01

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.3% Moroccan + 28.7% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.83
2 74.2% Moroccan + 25.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.91
3 72.7% Moroccan + 27.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.92
4 71.7% Moroccan + 28.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.02
5 72.9% Moroccan + 27.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.14
6 71.1% Moroccan + 28.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.39
7 72.8% Moroccan + 27.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.41
8 74.1% Moroccan + 25.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.41
9 71.7% Moroccan + 28.3% Portuguese @ 5.45
10 75% Algerian + 25% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.49
11 72.2% Algerian + 27.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.5
12 80.3% Algerian + 19.7% French_Basque @ 5.56
13 74.8% Moroccan + 25.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.59
14 69.2% Moroccan + 30.8% North_Italian @ 5.67
15 73.7% Algerian + 26.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.68
16 80.2% Moroccan + 19.8% French_Basque @ 5.7
17 77.8% Tunisian + 22.2% French_Basque @ 5.85
18 76.4% Moroccan + 23.6% Southwest_French @ 5.86
19 73.9% Algerian + 26.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 5.9
20 72.8% Algerian + 27.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.94

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Moroccan +50% Tuscan @ 8.092746

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Moroccan +25% Spanish_Aragon +25% Tunisian @ 4.752363

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
1 Egyptian + French_Basque + Moroccan + Moroccan @ 4.739122
2 Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian @ 4.752363
3 Algerian + Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.861250
4 Algerian + Algerian + Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.913315
5 Algerian + Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian @ 4.919367
6 Algerian + Egyptian + French_Basque + Moroccan @ 4.928200
7 Algerian + Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.957227
8 Egyptian + French_Basque + Moroccan + Mozabite_Berber @ 4.966496
9 Egyptian + French_Basque + Moroccan + Tunisian @ 4.979686
10 Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian @ 5.017475
11 Algerian + Algerian + Moroccan + Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.021094
12 Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian + Tunisian @ 5.065298
13 Algerian + Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Valencia @ 5.071612
14 Libyan_Jewish + Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon @ 5.075294
15 Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Tunisian @ 5.138997
16 Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Valencia + Tunisian @ 5.148238
17 Moroccan + Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon @ 5.152761
18 Moroccan + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian @ 5.163208
19 Algerian + Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.178789
20 Algerian + Moroccan + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian @ 5.187232

His Eurasia K3 results:

Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 83.8
2 SSA 16.2

Eurogenes ANE K7: around 15% autochthonous African-related ancestry.

Population
ANE 1.55 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 30.91 Pct
East_Eurasian 2.35 Pct
West_African -
East_African 15.09 Pct
ENF 50.1 Pct

PuntDNAL K10: around 12.6% indigenous African admixture (mostly Iberomaurusian)

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 ENF 58.52
2 WHG 16.05
3 Sub-Saharan 12.6
4 CHG 7.86
5 E_Asian 2.23
6 Amerindian 1.7
7 Oceanian 0.8
8 Beringian 0.24

HarappaWorld: around 14.63% African-related affinity here. Can be modelled as around 35 to almost 50% Southern Euro in the single pop sharing below when using Mozabite and Saharawi as Berber references.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 34.52
2 SW-Asian 22
3 Caucasian 14.72
4 NE-Euro 11.87
5 E-African 9.05
6 W-African 5.58
7 Papuan 1.44
8 S-Indian 0.61
9 Siberian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 algeria (henn2012) 18.48
2 morocco-n (henn2012) 19.88
3 moroccan (behar) 20.07
4 morocco-jew (behar) 20.41
5 libya (henn2012) 20.58
6 mozabite (hgdp) 21.84
7 saharawi (henn2012) 22.5
8 sephardic-jew (behar) 24.14
9 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 24.31
10 tunisia (henn2012) 24.48
11 tuscan (1000genomes) 24.56
12 tuscan (hapmap) 24.62
13 tuscan (hgdp) 24.65
14 ashkenazi (harappa) 24.94
15 egypt (henn2012) 25.42
16 puerto-rican (1000genomes) 25.62
17 italian (hgdp) 25.68
18 morocco-s (henn2012) 27.12
19 spaniard (1000genomes) 28.02
20 spaniard (behar) 28.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.2% saharawi (henn2012) + 47.8% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.72
2 53.1% mozabite (hgdp) + 46.9% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 5.24
3 60% saharawi (henn2012) + 40% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 5.37
4 55.4% moroccan (behar) + 44.6% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 5.41
5 57.6% algeria (henn2012) + 42.4% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 5.47
6 56% morocco-n (henn2012) + 44% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 5.51
7 65% algeria (henn2012) + 35% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 5.58
8 52.7% saharawi (henn2012) + 47.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 5.74
9 55.9% libya (henn2012) + 44.1% italian (hgdp) @ 5.87
10 59.8% saharawi (henn2012) + 40.2% romanian-a (behar) @ 6.07
11 64.9% algeria (henn2012) + 35.1% romanian-a (behar) @ 6.17
12 63.3% morocco-n (henn2012) + 36.7% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 6.18
13 58.1% algeria (henn2012) + 41.9% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 6.19
14 60.9% mozabite (hgdp) + 39.1% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 6.2
15 56.6% moroccan (behar) + 43.4% italian (hgdp) @ 6.23
16 53.5% saharawi (henn2012) + 46.5% italian (hgdp) @ 6.24
17 53.6% mozabite (hgdp) + 46.4% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 6.24
18 58.2% libya (henn2012) + 41.8% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 6.33
19 55.5% morocco-n (henn2012) + 44.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 6.5
20 50.5% tunisia (henn2012) + 49.5% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 6.62

Dodecad World9: He has at least 13% DNA that indigenous to African continent

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Southern 44.36
2 Atlantic_Baltic 34.47
3 African 12.98
4 Caucasus_Gedrosia 5.69
5 Australasian 1.98
6 Siberian 0.37
7 East_Asian 0.15
8 South_Asian 0.01

Dodecad K12b: He is around 25% NW African here, remarkably speaking.

Population
Gedrosia -
Siberian -
Northwest_African 24.67 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 26.46 Pct
North_European 8.56 Pct
South_Asian 0.33 Pct
East_African 6.89 Pct
Southwest_Asian 13.21 Pct
East_Asian 1.19 Pct
Caucasus 15.23 Pct
Sub_Saharan 3.45 Pct

2. Another Kabyle. He is from Bejaia. Can't find his pic but probably also Med looking.

His Eurogenes K13 results. Around 15.52% of his DNA is indigenous to Africa (also mostly Taforalt stuff). Can be modelled as low as 13 (using Tunisian) to as high as almost 35% South European (Moroccan reference) in single population sharing. In 4th oracle pop, can be modelled as 1/4 Sephardic Jew/Italian Jew or 1/2 Iberian and 1/2 Yemenite Jew.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.37
2 West_Med 23.25
3 North_Atlantic 14.97
4 Red_Sea 14.17
5 Northeast_African 9.49
6 Sub-Saharan 6.03
7 Amerindian 0.72

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian 7.11
2 Tunisian 7.66
3 Moroccan 9.09
4 Mozabite_Berber 9.37
5 Libyan_Jewish 15.12
6 Algerian_Jewish 15.45
7 Tunisian_Jewish 16.33
8 Italian_Jewish 17.18
9 Sephardic_Jewish 17.47
10 Egyptian 18.36
11 West_Sicilian 18.92
12 Ashkenazi 19.16
13 East_Sicilian 19.57
14 South_Italian 20.07
15 Central_Greek 22.21
16 Italian_Abruzzo 22.53
17 Tuscan 22.69
18 Bedouin 22.93
19 Jordanian 24.14
20 Palestinian 24.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.5% Algerian + 24.5% Italian_Jewish @ 4.65
2 68.3% Moroccan + 31.7% Italian_Jewish @ 4.92
3 77% Algerian + 23% Sephardic_Jewish @ 5.06
4 74.9% Algerian + 25.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.18
5 74.7% Algerian + 25.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.24
6 79.1% Algerian + 20.9% West_Sicilian @ 5.25
7 76.5% Algerian + 23.5% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.3
8 82.4% Algerian + 17.6% Tuscan @ 5.31
9 69.5% Moroccan + 30.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 5.41
10 81% Algerian + 19% South_Italian @ 5.48
11 80.2% Algerian + 19.8% Ashkenazi @ 5.48
12 68.2% Mozabite_Berber + 31.8% Italian_Jewish @ 5.49
13 83.3% Algerian + 16.7% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.6
14 87.1% Tunisian + 12.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.62
15 86% Algerian + 14% North_Italian @ 5.65
16 66.9% Moroccan + 33.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.66
17 85.7% Tunisian + 14.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.66
18 68.3% Moroccan + 31.7% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.67
19 85.8% Tunisian + 14.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.69
20 81.5% Algerian + 18.5% East_Sicilian @ 5.7

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Algerian +50% Algerian @ 7.142862

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Algerian +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Moroccan @ 4.964329

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
1 Algerian + Algerian + Italian_Jewish + Moroccan @ 4.964329
2 Algerian + Algerian + Algerian + Italian_Jewish @ 4.980645
3 Algerian + Algerian + Italian_Jewish + Mozabite_Berber @ 5.204073
4 Moroccan + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Andalucia + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.277038
5 Algerian + Italian_Jewish + Moroccan + Moroccan @ 5.287673
6 Algerian + Italian_Jewish + Moroccan + Mozabite_Berber @ 5.290030
7 Mozabite_Berber + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Andalucia + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.318879
8 Algerian + Italian_Jewish + Moroccan + Tunisian @ 5.326099
9 Moroccan + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Aragon + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.361841
10 Mozabite_Berber + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Aragon + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.396832
11 Algerian + Algerian + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian @ 5.442284
12 Algerian + Algerian + Moroccan + Sephardic_Jewish @ 5.444573
13 Algerian + Algerian + Algerian + Sephardic_Jewish @ 5.451972
14 Algerian + Moroccan + Spanish_Andalucia + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.481407
15 Moroccan + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Valencia + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.483918
16 Moroccan + Moroccan + Spanish_Andalucia + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.490880
17 Algerian + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Andalucia + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.493632
18 Moroccan + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.506533
19 Algerian + Algerian + Algerian + Algerian_Jewish @ 5.523686
20 Italian_Jewish + Moroccan + Moroccan + Tunisian @ 5.526417

Eurasia K3 results:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 81.41
2 SSA 18.59

Around 16.5% indigenous African-related input in Eurogenes ANE K7.

Population
ANE 0.51 Pct
ASE -
WHG-UHG 26.87 Pct
East_Eurasian 1.35 Pct
West_African -
East_African 16.52 Pct
ENF 54.76 Pct

PuntDNAL K10: at least 14% native African input.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ENF 53.93
2 WHG 19.77
3 Sub-Saharan 14.14
4 CHG 6.91
5 E_Asian 2.24
6 ASI 2.03
7 Amerindian 0.97

HarappaWorld: 15.77% of his DNA native to the African continent. Possessed around 17 to 38% West Asian/North African Jew ancestry in the single pop sharing. Recent Ottoman-related admixture?

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 36.88
2 SW-Asian 25.31
3 Caucasian 12.79
4 E-African 9.24
5 W-African 6.53
6 NE-Euro 5.08
7 Baloch 2.03
8 S-Indian 1.28
9 American 0.86

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 algeria (henn2012) 12.34
2 morocco-n (henn2012) 14.19
3 moroccan (behar) 14.79
4 mozabite (hgdp) 16.14
5 libya (henn2012) 16.57
6 saharawi (henn2012) 16.84
7 tunisia (henn2012) 19.45
8 morocco-jew (behar) 22.81
9 morocco-s (henn2012) 23.73
10 egypt (henn2012) 25.07
11 sephardic-jew (behar) 26.95
12 puerto-rican (1000genomes) 28.7
13 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 28.76
14 egyptian (behar) 28.97
15 ashkenazi (harappa) 30.16
16 tuscan (1000genomes) 30.46
17 tuscan (hapmap) 30.51
18 tuscan (hgdp) 30.54
19 puerto-rican (bryc) 31.31
20 sardinian (hgdp) 31.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.2% morocco-n (henn2012) + 37.8% morocco-jew (behar) @ 3.73
2 67.6% morocco-n (henn2012) + 32.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 3.73
3 66.1% morocco-n (henn2012) + 33.9% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 3.76
4 81.4% morocco-n (henn2012) + 18.6% adygei (hgdp) @ 3.84
5 81.1% morocco-n (henn2012) + 18.9% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 3.89
6 70.9% algeria (henn2012) + 29.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 3.93
7 71.9% algeria (henn2012) + 28.1% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.96
8 81.5% morocco-n (henn2012) + 18.5% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 4.01
9 66% libya (henn2012) + 34% sardinian (hgdp) @ 4.02
10 76.5% morocco-n (henn2012) + 23.5% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 4.04
11 76.9% morocco-n (henn2012) + 23.1% turk (behar) @ 4.04
12 73.9% morocco-n (henn2012) + 26.1% cypriot (behar) @ 4.12
13 76.2% morocco-n (henn2012) + 23.8% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 4.13
14 72.3% morocco-n (henn2012) + 27.7% lebanese (behar) @ 4.17
15 68.8% morocco-n (henn2012) + 31.2% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.18
16 65.9% algeria (henn2012) + 34.1% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.2
17 83.2% morocco-n (henn2012) + 16.8% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 4.2
18 64.9% saharawi (henn2012) + 35.1% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 4.21
19 79.5% morocco-n (henn2012) + 20.5% armenian (behar) @ 4.24
20 81.8% morocco-n (henn2012) + 18.2% georgian (harappa) @ 4.25

Dodecad World9: 13.6% African-related affinity.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Southern 48.62
2 Atlantic_Baltic 29.38
3 African 13.59
4 Caucasus_Gedrosia 6.21
5 Amerindian 1.56
6 South_Asian 0.64

Dodecad K12b: around 28% NW African component.

Population
Gedrosia 0.71 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 27.99 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 26.43 Pct
North_European 3.93 Pct
South_Asian 0.51 Pct
East_African 6.17 Pct
Southwest_Asian 16.78 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 13.89 Pct
Sub_Saharan 3.6 Pct

marco

09-04-2023, 02:59 PM

These are outdated calculators you would need g25 cords to get a better idea, but they're not the most shifted I've seen they seem quiet normal for coastal Berbers

marco

09-04-2023, 03:01 PM

Can you show eurogenes k36 results

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 03:50 PM

These are outdated calculators you would need g25 cords to get a better idea, but they're not the most shifted I've seen they seem quiet normal for coastal Berbers

Don't have their G25 coords, unfortunately. In fact, I have no idea if both of them have done it or not. The closest I have are the G25 sims created from their results

Maybe you can request them to do it? I'm not bold enough to ask them. I can give you their kits if you want since you are also North African.

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 03:52 PM

These are outdated calculators you would need g25 cords to get a better idea, but they're not the most shifted I've seen they seem quiet normal for coastal Berbers

Can you post coords or results of coastal Berbers who are more Eurasian shifted than them?

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 04:00 PM

Can you show eurogenes k36 results

1. First individual who I have no idea where in Kabylia he is originally from. The one who look very White.

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 3.03 Pct
Armenian -
Basque 1.61 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African 2.62 Pct
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.97 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 0.55 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 2.51 Pct
Iberian 10.9 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 13.15 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 14.05 Pct
North_African 25.71 Pct
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 2.64 Pct
Northeast_African 9.92 Pct
Oceanian 1.34 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 9 Pct

2. Second guy from Bejaia:

Population
Amerindian 0.54 Pct
Arabian 3.96 Pct
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 12.08 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 20.87 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 4.14 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 9.86 Pct
North_African 27.98 Pct
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 13.38 Pct
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African 0.2 Pct
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 6.98 Pct

Petalpusher

09-04-2023, 05:38 PM

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 05:45 PM

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 05:47 PM

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 06:05 PM

Typical of the coast with 10-15% African. K36 has some mishmash component of NA so that's not very telling. Their very low to no ANE means they don't have recent European ancestry, it's just on the coast they are less African and with relatively high WHG for being outside of Europe (due to Euro neolithic). It's probably also the kind of results a Zidane or Benzema would get.

I have seen several coastal Tunisians who are in the 8 to 10-15% African range (some who score as low as 10% or bit lower have recent Euro admixture though from what some Tunisian users told me).

For some unknown reason, it was more difficult for me to find coastal Algerians and especially coastal Moroccans who score in the 10-15% range, unfortunately. In fact, until know, I have found only 3-4 coastal Algerians (not sure if a few are actually Moroccans but its hard to tell as their surnames can overlap) and only one coastal Moroccan who score in the 10-15%.

Petalpusher

09-04-2023, 06:20 PM

Would the high WHG along with EEF also gives many of them Med/South Euro-ish looks?

I'm surprised if they have very low to no ANE, then how much Yamnaya/Steppe would they get?

Well it can't be anything else, so yes certainly it's the WHG that makes them somewhat euro looking sometimes.

they have no ANE or Yamnaya really on average, some on the extreme coast might have residual inputs from some invasion, like Vandals, that's it. But they have CHG/Iran_N like admixture from Arab invasions, sometimes that gets mixed up in some calculators yet the no ANE in K7 confirms otherwise. No genuine steppe.

Tunisians are even less SSA, there s a gradiant west to east clearly but they have a bit more eastern eurasian type of stuff for some reason ive noticed. Morrocans are def the highest SSA in NA, and i think it shows a lot more regularly than in Algerians. Rare to see Algerians who look visibly and clearly SSA influenced. Lot more often in Moroccans

marco

09-04-2023, 07:36 PM

Well it can't be anything else, so yes certainly it's the WHG that makes them somewhat euro looking sometimes.

they have no ANE or Yamnaya really on average, some on the extreme coast might have residual inputs from some invasion, like Vandals, that's it. But they have CHG/Iran_N like admixture from Arab invasions, sometimes that gets mixed up in some calculators yet the no ANE in K7 confirms otherwise. No genuine steppe.

Tunisians are even less SSA, there s a gradiant west to east clearly but they have a bit more eastern eurasian type of stuff for some reason ive noticed. Morrocans are def the highest SSA in NA, and i think it shows a lot more regularly than in Algerians. Rare to see Algerians who look visibly and clearly SSA influenced. Lot more often in Moroccans

Having 1-2 percent whg is not gonna have an influence on your looks and North Africans do have steppe ancestry it varies from south to north, for example some populations getting next to nothing. These are all outdated calculators so not much you can ascertain from these results

marco

09-04-2023, 07:39 PM

Would the high WHG along with EEF also gives many of them Med/South Euro-ish looks?

I'm surprised if they have very low to no ANE, then how much Yamnaya/Steppe would they get?

Whg ancestry is rare in high levels, all north Africans have a distinct look so I wouldn't say they pass as med looking unless they have an excessive amount of legitimate European ancestry

I would say the bulk of the eef and steppe ancestry does contribute a lot to the looks in North Africans from what I've seen, but the ibm ancestry is strong

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 08:02 PM

Whg ancestry is rare in high levels, all north Africans have a distinct look so I wouldn't say they pass as med looking unless they have an excessive amount of legitimate European ancestry

I would say the bulk of the eef and steppe ancestry does contribute a lot to the looks in North Africans from what I've seen, but the ibm ancestry is strong

I see. That makes sense.

Would you mind asking them to do G25 and later share coords? I can share their gedmatch kits and their emails in PM if you want.

marco

09-04-2023, 08:15 PM

I see. That makes sense.

Would you mind asking them to do G25 and later share coords? I can share their gedmatch kits and their emails in PM if you want.

Yeah I'll speak to them I'll be interested in their g25 to compare with the other cords i have

Zanzibar

09-04-2023, 08:33 PM

Yeah I'll speak to them I'll be interested in their g25 to compare with the other cords i have

Thanks! If they do the G25, please share their coords with me. Will send their kits and mails to you now. I have a few more Kabyle kits as well who I can send it to you in PM.

marco

09-04-2023, 08:57 PM

Thanks! If they do the G25, please share their coords with me. Will send their kits and mails to you now. I have a few more Kabyle kits as well who I can send it to you in PM.

I don't know if it's European ancestry you are looking for but you'll find the most shifted with Jebala, they have legitimate iberian ancestry

Target: Moroccan_Jebala_Chefchaouen
Distance: 1.2297% / 0.01229718
43.6 Anatolian_Neolithic
34.2 Taforalt
10.8 Steppe
5.0 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
3.2 Levant_Meoslithic
2.4 WHG
0.8 Iran_N

Target: Moroccan_Jebala
Distance: 1.7576% / 0.01757628
44.8 Anatolian_Neolithic
31.4 Taforalt
13.6 Steppe
5.0 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
2.6 Levant_Meoslithic
1.6 WHG
1.0 Iran_N

My wife is only half jebli, I used genoplot to subtract myself from my son with the subtract a parent feature to get my wife's side as I have mine and his g25 cords

Target: Wifesim
Distance: 2.5813% / 0.02581254
37.2 Anatolian_Neolithic
31.0 Taforalt
10.6 TZA_Pemba_600BP
10.2 Steppe
6.4 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
2.0 AUS_Willandra_Lakes_4000BP
1.4 WHG
1.2 Ethiopia_Mota_4500BP

Target: MAR_Rif
Distance: 1.0877% / 0.01087713
44.4 Anatolian_Neolithic
30.8 Taforalt
11.6 Steppe
5.6 Levant_Meoslithic
4.6 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
2.2 Iran_N
0.8 WHG

Target: ALG_Kabyle
Distance: 0.8616% / 0.00861642
46.6 Anatolian_Neolithic
30.0 Taforalt
11.0 Steppe
5.2 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
4.6 Levant_Meoslithic
2.2 Iran_N
0.4 WHG

In moderns

Target: MAR_Rif
Distance: 0.3908% / 0.00390782
41.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
40.0 Moroccan_North
7.8 Saharawi
5.4 Spanish_Asturias
3.2 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
1.2 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.8 Yemenite_Mahra
0.4 Moroccan_Jew

Target: ALG_Kabyle
Distance: 0.4130% / 0.00412975
36.4 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
26.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
16.6 Berber_MAR_TIZ
7.0 Sardinian
4.4 Moroccan_North
2.8 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
2.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
2.2 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
1.0 Cossack_Kuban
0.6 Spanish_Soria
0.4 Todzin

Target: Wifesim
Distance: 3.0030% / 0.03002980
65.0 Berber_MAR_TIZ
21.6 Spanish_Asturias
4.2 Cameroon_Bangwa
3.0 Gambian
2.0 Dinka
1.6 Koinanbe
1.4 Mbuti
0.6 Evenk
0.6 Khomani_San

Target: Moroccan_Jebala_Chefchaouen
Distance: 0.9524% / 0.00952375
50.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
24.2 Berber_MAR_TIZ
10.4 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
6.4 Saharawi
5.4 Moroccan_North
3.0 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.4 Sakha

Target: Moroccan_Jebala
Distance: 1.4264% / 0.01426369
36.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
31.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ
19.0 Spanish_Soria
7.8 Moroccan_North
4.2 BedouinB
0.4 Igorot
0.4 Yukpa

Petalpusher

09-05-2023, 02:56 AM

Having 1-2 percent whg is not gonna have an influence on your looks and North Africans do have steppe ancestry it varies from south to north, for example some populations getting next to nothing. These are all outdated calculators so not much you can ascertain from these results

All their WHG comes from the ANF ancestry, it is something like 20-25% which is the highest in MENA as the further east you go the less WHG and the more basal Iran neolithic stuff increases but obviously no hunter has crossed into North Africa in the mesolithic, it's from their spain like neolithic input.

Regular North Africans have no steppe ancestry, zero. Their ANE average is in the 0.x, they just score some of the other part that made up the steppe (CHG/Iran_N like)

There s no outdated calculators, just models people more or less misunderstand, hiding or revealing the deep ancestral components. In the same way Europeans will score single digit WHG in some models that embedd it elsewhere already (EEF/middle neo mainly, and steppe to some extent) or +50% WHG in deeper more ancestral tests. Going from 5% to 50% is not a matter of calculator, obviously, it's a matter of model.

TheStriker

09-07-2023, 01:27 AM

I don't know if it's European ancestry you are looking for but you'll find the most shifted with Jebala, they have legitimate iberian ancestry

Target: Moroccan_Jebala_Chefchaouen
Distance: 1.2297% / 0.01229718
43.6 Anatolian_Neolithic
34.2 Taforalt
10.8 Steppe
5.0 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
3.2 Levant_Meoslithic
2.4 WHG
0.8 Iran_N

Target: Moroccan_Jebala
Distance: 1.7576% / 0.01757628
44.8 Anatolian_Neolithic
31.4 Taforalt
13.6 Steppe
5.0 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
2.6 Levant_Meoslithic
1.6 WHG
1.0 Iran_N

My wife is only half jebli, I used genoplot to subtract myself from my son with the subtract a parent feature to get my wife's side as I have mine and his g25 cords

Target: Wifesim
Distance: 2.5813% / 0.02581254
37.2 Anatolian_Neolithic
31.0 Taforalt
10.6 TZA_Pemba_600BP
10.2 Steppe
6.4 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
2.0 AUS_Willandra_Lakes_4000BP
1.4 WHG
1.2 Ethiopia_Mota_4500BP

Target: MAR_Rif
Distance: 1.0877% / 0.01087713
44.4 Anatolian_Neolithic
30.8 Taforalt
11.6 Steppe
5.6 Levant_Meoslithic
4.6 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
2.2 Iran_N
0.8 WHG

Target: ALG_Kabyle
Distance: 0.8616% / 0.00861642
46.6 Anatolian_Neolithic
30.0 Taforalt
11.0 Steppe
5.2 Congo_Kindoki_Protohistoric
4.6 Levant_Meoslithic
2.2 Iran_N
0.4 WHG

In moderns

Target: MAR_Rif
Distance: 0.3908% / 0.00390782
41.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
40.0 Moroccan_North
7.8 Saharawi
5.4 Spanish_Asturias
3.2 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
1.2 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.8 Yemenite_Mahra
0.4 Moroccan_Jew

Target: ALG_Kabyle
Distance: 0.4130% / 0.00412975
36.4 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
26.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
16.6 Berber_MAR_TIZ
7.0 Sardinian
4.4 Moroccan_North
2.8 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
2.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
2.2 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
1.0 Cossack_Kuban
0.6 Spanish_Soria
0.4 Todzin

Target: Wifesim
Distance: 3.0030% / 0.03002980
65.0 Berber_MAR_TIZ
21.6 Spanish_Asturias
4.2 Cameroon_Bangwa
3.0 Gambian
2.0 Dinka
1.6 Koinanbe
1.4 Mbuti
0.6 Evenk
0.6 Khomani_San

Target: Moroccan_Jebala_Chefchaouen
Distance: 0.9524% / 0.00952375
50.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
24.2 Berber_MAR_TIZ
10.4 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
6.4 Saharawi
5.4 Moroccan_North
3.0 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.4 Sakha

Target: Moroccan_Jebala
Distance: 1.4264% / 0.01426369
36.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
31.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ
19.0 Spanish_Soria
7.8 Moroccan_North
4.2 BedouinB
0.4 Igorot
0.4 Yukpa

You have any more And like from Specific cities it might vary Or just post the coords

Zanzibar

09-09-2023, 03:03 AM

Yeah I'll speak to them I'll be interested in their g25 to compare with the other cords i have

Have you contact and speak to them yet?

marco

09-09-2023, 04:39 PM

You have any more And like from Specific cities it might vary Or just post the coords

The majority of them are similar in ancestry, they all have an Iberian shift in their results

All 3 of those samples are from North Morocco, one from Asilah and one from chefchaouen

Do you mind posting your results if you have them?

marco

09-09-2023, 04:40 PM

Have you contact and speak to them yet?

Still no response

Zanzibar

09-09-2023, 11:45 PM

Still no response

How about the other Kabyles (or very likely Kabyles) that I send their kits to you in PM? Have you also try contact with them?

TheStriker

09-11-2023, 04:06 AM

The majority of them are similar in ancestry, they all have an Iberian shift in their results

All 3 of those samples are from North Morocco, one from Asilah and one from chefchaouen

Do you mind posting your results if you have them?

Even the Rurak ones it would make sense if an urban Pop have that but sadly no I don't have it

Zanzibar

10-01-2023, 07:11 AM

Still no response

Not even now in French?

Zanzibar

10-01-2023, 07:12 AM

Even the Rurak ones it would make sense if an urban Pop have that but sadly no I don't have it

Have you done any DNA test?

vader

10-05-2023, 01:54 AM

is the european in north (coastal), north africans from actual recent european gene-flow or more ancient?

Leto

10-13-2023, 06:55 PM

Tunisians are even less SSA, there s a gradiant west to east clearly but they have a bit more eastern eurasian type of stuff for some reason ive noticed. Morrocans are def the highest SSA in NA, and i think it shows a lot more regularly than in Algerians. Rare to see Algerians who look visibly and clearly SSA influenced. Lot more often in Moroccans
Aren't some Tunisians from farther from the coast quite heavily Negroid?

Petalpusher

10-13-2023, 08:15 PM

Aren't some Tunisians from farther from the coast quite heavily Negroid?

I haven't seen that, they are on average less SSA than Algerians but also less WHG. Not having a border with a heavily SSA country likely prevents them to go that much higher.

Leto

10-14-2023, 06:55 PM

I haven't seen that, they are on average less SSA than Algerians but also less WHG. Not having a border with a heavily SSA country likely prevents them to go that much higher.
What is the African range of all the Maghrebi samples available on G25?

Petalpusher

10-14-2023, 07:13 PM

What is the African range of all the Maghrebi samples available on G25?

About 10-35%, once you unfold all the SSA.

marco

10-14-2023, 09:12 PM

What is the African range of all the Maghrebi samples available on G25?

Do you mean all African ancestry above 25 percent

Zanzibar

10-16-2023, 01:29 AM

Do you mean all African ancestry above 25 percent

The Tunisian_Sfax, Moroccan_Fassi, Tunisian_Jemmel/Monastir, Moroccan_Morisco samples are in the 15% African range and less though.

marco

10-16-2023, 01:41 AM

The Tunisian_Sfax, Moroccan_Fassi, Tunisian_Jemmel/Monastir, Moroccan_Morisco samples are in the 15% African range and less though.

They're outliers though, most North Africans have that amount including ana ancestry hence why they plot the way they do on a pca

Zanzibar

10-16-2023, 06:52 AM

They're outliers though, most North Africans have that amount including ana ancestry hence why they plot the way they do on a pca

Indeed, they are definitely outliers and they all seem to be coastal North Africans including several Kabyles who score in that range. Btw to specify further, it seems that the Moroccan Fassi average are closer to 13% African input and the Morisco Tetouan are in the 8-10% African ballpark.

elijah atlas

11-07-2023, 10:42 PM

I have seen several coastal Tunisians who are in the 8 to 10-15% African range (some who score as low as 10% or bit lower have recent Euro admixture though from what some Tunisian users told me).

For some unknown reason, it was more difficult for me to find coastal Algerians and especially coastal Moroccans who score in the 10-15% range, unfortunately. In fact, until know, I have found only 3-4 coastal Algerians (not sure if a few are actually Moroccans but its hard to tell as their surnames can overlap) and only one coastal Moroccan who score in the 10-15%.

In fact, the people who mix least with Africans are not the Algerian or Moroccan coast, but rather the people of the south as an example this two results from south of morocco 124406124407124407