Would have Kossuth/Popovici borders satisfied hungarian aspirations?

[Zephyr]

As you surely know, in 1906 Aurel Popovici grabbed Lajos Kossuth's idea of a greater danubian federation and proposed that states be formed according to ethnic distribution within the empire.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Greater_austria_ethnic.svg/776px-Greater_austria_ethnic.svg.png

Would the borders corresponding to what would be the magyar state alone satisfy modern day Hungarians with respect to Trianon's division largely perceived as punitive to Hungary?

In other words, would a state encompassing the current ethnic Hungarians abroad in neighbouring countries suffice?

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/dist_of_hungarian_language_europe.png

Or is hungarian nationalism intertwined with full reversal of Trianon, reannexing Croatia, Burgenland, Slovakia, Vojvodina and Transylvania? Do hungarian nationalists still see these nations as their subjects?

[Albion]

Yes, I think so. I think those borders for Hungary would have been good, but none of the others for the other areas.

[Búvár Kund]

I like the borders of 1940.

By the way that map is pretty vague in showing the demographics of the area.

For example it shows that Hungarians are almost non-existant in Erdély, outside of Székelyföld, which was untrue.


Also the northern part of Upper Hungary had some significatn Magyar population as well.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Ethnographic_map_of_hungary_1910_by_teleki_carte_r ouge.jpg

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Well Popovic's proposal was still sketched inside an Austrian united federation, in which Hungary would have been a mere annexed state. At least in the Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy Hungary was practically a separate state, with an Austrian emperor, but with own government, parliament. I don't believe that Hungary should ever be part of a greater state conglomerate, our history and heritage demands us liberty and self-determination from all other states.

Another big fault of Popovic's idea is that many Hungarian lands would've been broken from Hungary. It is irrelevant that other nationalities became majority in our border regions, they were still born in Hungary, on Hungarian soil, and had Hungarian citizenship. They had absolutely no historical, nor political legitimacy to decide on their own, without the say of Budapest, and without asking in an official census the general population of Hungary if they can secede the border territories of Hungary. They also haven't won these lands through war, but it was given to them in diverse Western lodges, where the ones who could lick more French arse got the most from Hungary. Hell, even the Austrians, who were technically on the same "losing side" as Hungarians, got a piece from us.

The West has to finally admit how absurd and disgraceful is the Trianon Dictate, in which 3.5 million Hungarians were left outside the motherland, and had to go through 90 years of revanchist and oppressive treatment from the new states they became citizens of, without their will. And the West has to finally favor at least a partial revision of the dictate. This is the minimum.

[Zephyr]

Another big fault of Popovic's idea is that many Hungarian lands would've been broken from Hungary. It is irrelevant that other nationalities became majority in our border regions, they were still born in Hungary, on Hungarian soil, and had Hungarian citizenship.

Which ones?

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Which ones?

Well look at the first map you posted, and compare Hungary from that map to Hungary in the map from my signature. It's almost the same truncated Hungary as it is today.

[Zephyr]

Well look at the first map you posted, and compare Hungary from that map to Hungary in the map from my signature. It's almost the same truncated Hungary as it is today.

You don't like your people living under the rule of Slovaks, Serbs and Romanians. I perfectly understand that.

But why should the other way be better?

That map would leave almost no ethnicity under foreign rule.

Slovakia has all the right to sovereignty, as far as I know.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

You don't like your people living under the rule of Slovaks, Serbs and Romanians. I perfectly understand that.

But why should the other way be better?

That map would leave almost no ethnicity under foreign rule.

Slovakia has all the right to sovereignty, as far as I know.

What you fail to understand (maybe you are unable to do so or you are biased against Hungarians), that there was never a Slovakia before they created it, breaking precious soil, for which Hungarians bled for generations over a thousand years. Slovaks developed an own national and ethnic identity only to the influence of French Enlightenment, and German Romanticism, to which some Western-Slavic speaking Evangelist priests from Upper Hungary adhered. The Austrians also encouraged the building of a strong national identity for the Slavs in the Northern Carpathians, so they could weaken the uprising goals of Hungarians, who aimed to gain independence from the Hapsburg Empire.

Unfortunately Hungarians made quite a big mistake, when they invited so many foreigners to populate the border territories of the kingdom, which become in places largely unpopulated after the Tatar and Turkish massacres of Hungarian villages and settlements. These people are our guests, since when are guests justified to take over the house of the proper owner of the house, the owner who built that house with lots of sacrifices? We Hungarians sacrificed ourselves countless times to defend this Carpathian Basin, which was united for the first time by Hungarians, while the guests rarely participated in our wars, and had many centuries to outgrow the bleeding and dying Hungarian population in wars for the motherland. It is irrelevant if there is no Hungarian or ten thousand Hungarians in a region of the Carpathian Basin. They are still Hungarian, and are under the authority of the Holy Crown of Saint Stephen.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Crown,_Sword_and_Globus_Cruciger_of_Hungary2.jpg/400px-Crown,_Sword_and_Globus_Cruciger_of_Hungary2.jpg

[Zephyr]

You've quite a romantic view of history, my friend. As far as I know it were the Magyars who came and imposed rule upon the Slavs.

Unless you are speaking of the Attila raids who devastated a whole lot of Europe and stopped only 1000km away from my home.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

You've quite a romantic view of history, my friend. As far as I know it were the Magyars who came and imposed rule upon the Slavs.

Unless you are speaking of the Attila raids who devastated a whole lot of Europe and stopped only 1000km away from my home.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Yes, I am an idealist, but I believe in fair and noble ideas. What the Western powers done, and are doing even this day to Hungary is disgraceful.

PS: the Slavs don't equal Slovaks :rolleyes2:. Plus they were present scarcely only in the northern and some central parts of the Carpathian Basin. No Medieval Slavic population's modern equivalent (simply because they have no direct ethnic continuity in the Carpathian Basin) has historical legitimacy to claim our lands, which we built, we consolidated, we fought for it, not them.

[Zephyr]

So, in your opinion Slovaks came and invaded Hungary thus have no right to nationality.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

So, in your opinion Slovaks came and invaded Hungary thus have no right to nationality.

I don't know how you took those conclusions, I was very explicit. They can have a country, but not in the Carpathian Basin. This is Hungarian aria, we organized it, as a state with perfect geographical borders, even nature supports the union of this land.

http://www.karpat-medence.hu/img/karpmed.jpg

[Zephyr]

I don't know how you took those conclusions, I was very explicit. They can have a country, but not in the Carpathian Basin. This is Hungarian aria, we organized it, as a state with perfect geographical borders, even nature supports the union of this land.

http://www.karpat-medence.hu/img/karpmed.jpg

So, all territory of current Slovakia belongs to Hungary?

And part of Croatia, as well?

[Osweo]

hehe, Magyars are a crazy bunch!

Are there any contemporary Hungarian nationalists that advocate a MODEST revision of Triannon? I would be VERY sympathetic to that, but all this Moravia to Buchurest stuff scares the hell out of me. :suomut:

[Sagitta Hungarica]

hehe, Magyars are a crazy bunch!

Are there any contemporary Hungarian nationalists that advocate a MODEST revision of Triannon? I would be VERY sympathetic to that, but all this Moravia to Buchurest stuff scares the hell out of me. :suomut:

You are drawing senseless conclusions. No Hungarian wants land that is not theirs. Extra-Carpathian lands don't belong to us.