Red Square Victory parade: preparations

[Loki]

This is one thing that I want to witness in my lifetime. Must be awesome. :)

This year's preparations are being made already:

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/66/121116675.jpg

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/66/121116658.jpg

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/67/121116717.jpg

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/66/121116653.jpg

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/67/121116722.jpg

[Tabiti]

Perfection, discipline, order, strenght, veneration...just beauty! Things all military and political parades have to show, to help people feel being a gear-wheel of a great eternal machine. But during the years and years parading, the true meaning and events on the exact celebrate date begin to fade, and fade, and fade, until it becomes only "the parade date", until the next government rejects it and puts another "parade day"...

9th May is 9th May and everyone has right and must have personal opinion (positive/negative) for it and not to accept it only as "the big parade"!

[Beorn]

There are plenty of places in this world I would love to visit in my lifetime and Moscow is one of them.

My father and sister both speak Russian quite fluently and, my sister in particular, would always go on about the history and culture of Russia.

It would be a sacrilege for having to put up with those stories to never go and visit.

[Æmeric]

Isn't this the parade where they celebrate their victory over Germany & the rape of millions of German, Hungarian & other European women. Not to mentioned the mass murder of millions of German civilians in the east & the deportation of the survivors westward out of Silesia, East Prussia & Pomerania?:confused:

[Æmeric]

My father and sister both speak Russian quite fluently and, my sister in particular, would always go on about the history and culture of Russia.

Why do your father & sister speak Russian fluently?:icon1:

[Manifest Destiny]

Isn't this the parade where they celebrate their victory over Germany & the rape of millions of German, Hungarian & other European women. Not to mentioned the mass murder of millions of German civilians in the east & the deportation of the survivors westward out of Silesia, East Prussia & Pomerania?:confused:

I'm sure someone might consider such facts to be "irrelevant". :rolleyes:

[Beorn]

Why do your father & sister speak Russian fluently?:icon1:

My father was taught Russian and German as a child, and can speak both fluently enough to get by in the two countries. As for why he was taught them would be down to the curriculum of Bristol schools after the war, I suppose.
As for my sister, she simply fell in love with the Russian nation and people. She taught herself Russian and has been once, I believe.

I did try and teach myself Russian, as well as German, but both languages bored me to death that much that I gave up wanting to learn them.

[Thorum]

There are plenty of places in this world I would love to visit in my lifetime and Moscow is one of them.

My father and sister both speak Russian quite fluently and, my sister in particular, would always go on about the history and culture of Russia.

It would be a sacrilege for having to put up with those stories to never go and visit.

I have been to Moscow, Wat, and you would love it!! It is truly a bustling and growing city. So much history...Lots and lots to do, boat tours, University, Circus, Dolphinarium, Museums, Red Square, Cafes, book shops, I could go on... :thumbs up

[Thorum]

Isn't this the parade where they celebrate their victory over Germany & the rape of millions of German, Hungarian & other European women. Not to mentioned the mass murder of millions of German civilians in the east & the deportation of the survivors westward out of Silesia, East Prussia & Pomerania?:confused:

I can answer that question: No.

[Æmeric]

My father was taught Russian and German as a child, and can speak both fluently enough to get by in the two countries. As for why he was taught them would be down to the curriculum of Bristol schools after the war, I suppose.

Sounds as though the schools in Bristol were ran by a bunch of lefty marxists who were preparing for the day the Russians conquered England & created an English Socialist Republic modeled on the DDR.

[Loki]

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/66/121116675.jpg

Compare with American soldiers:

http://media.timeoutchicago.com/resizeImage/htdocs/export_images/167/167.x600.around.review.SSDap.jpg?

[Hors]

I have been to Moscow, Wat, and you would love it!! It is truly a bustling and growing city. So much history...Lots and lots to do, boat tours, University, Circus, Dolphinarium, Museums, Red Square, Cafes, book shops, I could go on... :thumbs up

Kremlin is not mentioned, with its Diamond Chamber, cathedrals and Tsar-cannon and Tsar-Bell. And various palaces and monasteries and historical parks with examples of ancient wooden architecture. And the State Library, the Russian Expo, various art galleries, the Ostankino tower and, of course, the Arbat street with its boutiques and the beautiful Moscow subway.

And the night life is the best in Europe. Moscow never sleeps.

And after the recent devalvation of ruble it's all pretty cheap. Moscow is not the most expensive city of the world anymore :D

[Electronic God-Man]

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/66/121116675.jpg

Compare with American soldiers:


It's early here so I shall be blunt.

Niggers fill the lowest ranks. Americans of European descent fill the ranks of the specialty forces. I would know, many of my family are in the special forces. I have heard them remark that "black" people are very few and far between in any army/navy position that is important.

...honestly, there is no comparison.

[Groenewolf]

http://img.rian.ru/images/12111/67/121116717.jpg

Good looking uniforms. But what is whit al those blue barrets in the first picture?

[Hors]

Barrets or berrets? If the latter, they're paratroopers.

[RoyBatty]

Good looking uniforms. But what is whit al those blue barrets in the first picture?

Paratroopers as Hors says.

They have some cool traditions too. For example, on "Defenders of the Motherland Day" the veterans dress up in their military regalia, celebrate the day in town and beat up immigrant stall holders who didn't remember to check their calendars to "stay home".

It is the day of the year when Russians reclaim the streets from the intruders.

:thumb001:

[RoyBatty]

For precision marching and well executed parades the North Koreans are awesome. Not sure if there are many (if any countries) who can match them.

[Eldritch]

What's ther point of celebrating a victory by a country that no longer exists?

[Hors]

Russia is the legal successor of the USSR. The war was led and won by Russians. I don't see any problem.

[Eldritch]

Russia is the legal successor of the USSR. The war was led and won by Russians. I don't see any problem.

Well, each to his own. I should not criticize people's reasons for national pride. I know they can be supremely important for some people, while seeming bizarre and arbitrary to outsiders.

Still, I wonder. While it true that the Soviet Red Army ultimately defeated the Reich, the Americans and quite a few other nations pulled their weight too. They have no victory day parades, even thoufh they are still the same countries. I mean c'mon, Stalin himself wasn't Russian.

[Hors]

Still, I wonder. While it true that the Soviet Red Army ultimately defeated the Reich, the Americans and quite a few other nations pulled their weight too. They have no victory day parades, even thoufh they are still the same countries.

Maybe because it was the Red Army which destroyed 75% of the Axis divisions, the best of them, while the Allies were dealing with "frozen meat" and ethnic formations (remember that Czech from Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan"?) not really willing or capable to fight and which surrendered gladly at the first opportunity? and maybe because it was Russia who lost 8 million soldiers and officers and 7 million civilians and most of its economy as opposed to several hundred thousands casualties suffered by the Allies which only boosted their economy during WWII (especially the US)? and maybe because thus was finished with the immediate threat of complete annihilation of Russians and other Eastern European ethnicities as opposed to well being of the French or the British?


I mean c'mon, Stalin himself wasn't Russian

And Napoleon was not French. Go to the French section and preach there. Advise them to destroy the monuments of the Napoleonic era which mark his victories, and I'll see :)

[Eldritch]

Saving Private Ryan is a movie. A work of fiction. Made in Hollywood. By that loathsome kike Steven Spielberg.

[Æmeric]

Russia is the legal successor of the USSR. The war was led and won by Russians. I don't see any problem.Then that should make the Russians responsible all the atricities committed by Soviet troops in eastern & central Europe during & immediately after the WWII.

[Hors]

Saving Private Ryan is a movie. A work of fiction. Made in Hollywood. By that loathsome kike Steven Spielberg.

It doesn't matter who filmed it. Whoever did it truthfully noted that there were ethnic formations in Normandy. Hell, there were even Russians there, who refused to fight their brothers in the East and volunteered to fight with imperialists... they didn't fight much, of course :)

[Hors]

then that should make the russians responsible all the atricities committed by soviet troops in eastern & central europe during & immediately after the wwii.

YAWN

[Eldritch]

Then that should make the Russians responsible all the atricities committed by Soviet troops in eastern & central Europe during & immediately after the WWII.

How many German women were gang-raped and brutalized by Soviets? Three million?

[Brynhild]

Well, each to his own. I should not criticize people's reasons for national pride. I know they can be supremely important for some people, while seeming bizarre and arbitrary to outsiders.

Still, I wonder. While it true that the Soviet Red Army ultimately defeated the Reich, the Americans and quite a few other nations pulled their weight too. They have no victory day parades, even thoufh they are still the same countries. I mean c'mon, Stalin himself wasn't Russian.

Actually, I'm not so sure of that. Aren't there still nations that celebrate VE and VJ day - Victories in Europe and Japan respectively - to comemmerate WW2's end?

[Hors]

Sure, all Allied nations celebrate the V day (May, 8), they just don't parade much :)

It looks like our Finnish friend is somewhat annoyed by excessive, in his opinion, celebration of the Victory Day by Russians, especially taking into account as they, again in his opinion, have no right to celebrate as the USSR ceased to exist :)

[Hors]

How many German women were gang-raped and brutalized by Soviets? Three million?

Hold on for a while, he'll check trial scripts to tell us the exact figure and list every victim's name :D

[The Lawspeaker]

How many German women were gang-raped and brutalized by Soviets? Three million?
Agreed. But I think that we should compare the Russians with Asian cultures here. For a Russian I guess, acknowledging that it happened, would be a loss of face. I don't know whether there is an English word to describe it but I guess that Russia has a schaamtecultuur when it comes to crimes, rape and they try to either deny it or seek for a justification because simply acknowledging that it happened would be a sign of weakness or disgrace. Basically like: "As long as we deny it, it didn't happen"- which is basically contrary to European cultures about dishonor and shame.

[Hors]

The rapes did take place, both by Germans in the USSR and by Soviets in Germany. Nobody denies it. Why the fuss?

[Æmeric]

Of all the atrocities I've heard allegedly committed by the Germans in WWII, rape or gang rape is not among them.

[Loki]

Of all the atrocities I've heard allegedly committed by the Germans in WWII, rape or gang rape is not among them.

You're joking, right?

During the course of the war German military courts handed out over 50,000 death sentences for members of the German armed forces for a variety of offences among them looting, rape and cowardice in the face of the enemy.

[The Lawspeaker]

You're joking, right?

During the course of the war German military courts handed out over 50,000 death sentences for members of the German armed forces for a variety of offences among them looting, rape and cowardice in the face of the enemy.
And how many were dished out by Soviet military courts for crimes like rape and looting ? And how many were carried out ?
Since history has shown us that those crimes were carried out with impunity.

[Æmeric]

You're joking, right?

During the course of the war German military courts handed out over 50,000 death sentences for members of the German armed forces for a variety of offences among them looting, rape and cowardice in the face of the enemy.
How many were for rape? I would guess that most of those sentences were for cowardice or desertion. But if the German military was handing out death sentences for rape that means it was not officially sanctioned. And much less common then what went on when the Russians entered Germany, Hungary, Poland etc....

[Hors]

And how many were dished out by Soviet military courts for crimes like rape and looting ? And how many were carried out ?

Even more, in Germany alone, laddie. That's why I dislike Uncle Joe... he could be more attentive to feelings of the army whose relatives were murdered, mutilated and raped in millions by Germans back in the Motherland. Instead he silenced Ilia Ehrenburg and unleashed the bloody dogs of NKVD on the revengeful Red Army.

[The Lawspeaker]

Even more, in Germany alone, laddie. That's why I dislike Uncle Joe... he could be more attentive to feelings of the army whose relatives were murdered, mutilated and raped in millions by Germans back in the Motherland. Instead he silenced Ilia Ehrenburg and unleashed the bloody dogs of NKVD on the revengeful Red Army.
It's a reason- not an excuse.

But they didn't only rape Germans, they raped Baltic, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Yugoslav women as well (the Russians behaved so badly that the communist resistance complained about it to Moscow) or even liberated Jewish and RUSSIAN women and from concentration camps in Budapest even attacked the Swedish legation.
Some girls were as young as 11- some women as old as 80.

Sweden as you might have known was neutral.

[Thorum]

How many were for rape? I would guess that most of those sentences were for cowardice or desertion. But if the German military was handing out death sentences for rape that means it was not officially sanctioned. And much less common then what went on when the Russians entered Germany, Hungary, Poland etc....

Orginal premise of this thread: "This is one thing that I want to witness in my lifetime. Must be awesome." [Loki]

:eusa_doh:I have to say, Æmeric, you have a way of destroying a thread. The Victory Day celebration/parade is about the WW2 victory by the Soviet Union over the Axis, specifically Germany. Moreover, in my opinion, if it wasn't for the USSR, I have a feeling we would be speaking German and kissing Hitler's ass right now. (My guess is that would be fine with you.)
If you want to flame, err, I mean discuss the meaning behind the Victory Day celebration and parade. Start a new thread.

[Hors]

Rapes do happen everywhere. I do not approve of the rapes which happened in Germany and furious because some people deny that the Axis forces had rapists in their ranks as well while campaigning in the USSR.

Tristan, why you're not happy? Because of the official line of the USSR (make up your mind about it) or simply because there were rapes in Germany at all? or because it weren't only German ladies?

Stop whining and articulate your position finally.

[The Lawspeaker]

That it would be perhaps be time for the Allies too to recognise their own crimes and errors and not just point everything at the Axis all the time.
Let me give you a fine example of French forces (http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Egduncan/massacres_axis.html#Italy) in Italy at Monte Cassino. Not just Russian forces were behaving horribly.

[Skandi]

I have heard people say that the Russians were as bad as they were in retaliation for German behaviour earlier on in the war.

[Eldritch]

It's a reason- not an excuse.

But they didn't only rape Germans, they raped Baltic, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Yugoslav women as well (the Russians behaved so badly that the communist resistance complained about it to Moscow) or even liberated Jewish and RUSSIAN women and from concentration camps in Budapest even attacked the Swedish legation.
Some girls were as young as 11- some women as old as 80.

Sweden as you might have known was neutral.

I have a female friend whose mother was the product of a gang rape by some Russian "soldiers".

[Æmeric]

Orginal premise of this thread: "This is one thing that I want to witness in my lifetime. Must be awesome." [Loki]I know what the original purpose of this thread was.:wink


:eusa_doh:I have to say, Æmeric, you have a way of destroying a thread. On the contrary, I add an important balance in what would otherwise be a Russian lovefest.


The Victory Day celebration/parade is about the WW2 victory by the Soviet Union over the Axis, specifically Germany. Moreover, in my opinion, if it wasn't for the USSR, I have a feeling we would be speaking German and kissing Hitler's ass right now. (My guess is that would be fine with you.)We wouldn't be speaking German. The former Soviet Union was much more of a threat to the US then Germany ever was. And if you were more familiar with my postings at Skadi you would know I am not a fan of Hitler or National Socialism. And I find unabashed admiration of Hitlerian Germany as annoying as Russophilism.

If you want to flame, err, I mean discuss the meaning behind the Victory Day celebration and parade. Start a new thread.Or you could just put me on ignore.

[Loki]

On the contrary, I add an important balance in what would otherwise be a Russian lovefest.


It's rather interesting how you fail to see that you are only fanning the flames, and that you are partly to blame for this "Russian lovefest". You are a very intelligent man.

[Thorum]

I have a female friend whose mother was the product of a gang rape by some Russian "soldiers".

Ok, I'll bite. I suppose it just feels good to bitch and whine about things, no?

I have a wife whose grandmother and grandfather's village (in occupied Ukraine) was burned to the ground when they were 6 and 7 years old by the Germans. Their parents were locked in a building with many other villagers and it was torched. The aformentioned grandfather was shot twice in the legs and left to die as the survivors were marched off from the ruins to "holiday camp". He couldn't walk fast enough was the reason given...

I was wrong, it doesn't feel good to join with everyone in crying and whining and bitching. I feel stupid and cheap now. I haven't followed my own advice. I will from now on though...:cool:

[Hors]

That it would be perhaps be time for the Allies too to recognise their own crimes and errors and not just point everything at the Axis all the time.
Let me give you a fine example of French forces (http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Egduncan/massacres_axis.html#Italy) in Italy at Monte Cassino. Not just Russian forces were behaving horribly.

The USSR has dealt harshly with the offenders. I can post relevant data if you're interested.

Maybe it was only a part of the offenders, maybe even a small part, but the measures taken DID stop violence. And these measures were taken in due time, BEFORE the Red Army entered Germany.

The violence in Germany WAS NOT the state policy, neither the USSR could be blamed for gross negligence (I'm sure everyone realizes that the 3 million figure is outrageous exaggregation). So Russia as the legal successor of the USSR has nothing to apologize for.

The behavior of French Moroccans is not our concern.

For Russians past is past, we don't want to re-start the war. All what is left of WWII are the Soviet era war movies and the parade. Only those interested in further bloodshed (reason for it) attract attention to such issues, and incidentally they're not Russian.

Anything else?

[The Lawspeaker]

The USSR has dealt harshly with the offenders. I can post relevant data if you're interested.
Please do... and a non-Russian source please.

[Hors]

and a non-Russian source please

why? you could use an on-line translation service...

[The Lawspeaker]

why? you could use an on-line translation service...
Two reasons:

1. Those online translations are completely inaccurate.

2. A Russian source is more likely to downplay the role of the Red Army.