-háza: Question to Hungarians

[rothaer]

I wonder whether all the Hungarian place names with -háza (f. i. Nyíregyháza) are derived from Germanic Hus/Haus (English: house). As for the usage you have loads of -hausen place names in Germany (f. i. Nordhausen).

Long beofre the advent of the (initial) Hungarians Hungary was full with Germanics for centuries so such an assumption seems to me not far fetched.

[Victor]

Haza is in late Russian Empire/Soviet criminal slang (which has heavy Yiddish influence) is the house, home where criminals are based.

[Blondie]

It has finno-ugric origin:


Ősi finnugor örökség: osztják kat, mordvin kud, finn kota, észt koda (‘ház, kunyhó’). A szóeleji k ⇨ h változás szabályos, lásd hab, hal, hat, hó, hód stb; a tővégi t ⇨ z változást megtaláljuk a fazék, kéz szóban is. Lásd még haza1, haza2, hon, honn.

https://www.arcanum.com/hu/online-kiadvanyok/Lexikonok-magyar-etimologiai-szotar-F14D3/h-F2416/haz-F24E3/

[Blondie]

But there are tons of german-hungarian similar word:

Vater (german) = Fater (hungarian)
Mutter = Muter
Backfisch = Bakfis
Broschüre = Brossúra
falsch = fals
Fogasch = Fogas
Kanapee = Kanapé
Kaplan = Káplán
Klischee = Klisé
Lack = Lakk
Lager = Láger
Nudel = Nudli
Pandur = Pandúr
Pogatsche = Pogácsa
präzis = precíz
Regiment = Regiment
Reklame = Reklám
Salami = szalámi
Schal = sál
schatzen = saccol
Schlag = slag
Schlitz = slicc
Schluck = slukk
Schnitt = snitt
Schuster = suszter
Semmel = zsemle
Speis = spejz
Spitzel = spicli
stimmen = stimmel
Tusche = tus
Wirtschaft = vircsaft
Ziel = cél

This is the whole list:
https://instantdeutsch.jimdofree.com/majdnem-magyar-n%C3%A9met-szavak/

[Kiel]

To be honest I have no idea.
Nyíregyháza was just “Nyír” in the 1200s and its German name is Birkenkirchen.

[rothaer]

It has finno-ugric origin:

https://www.arcanum.com/hu/online-kiadvanyok/Lexikonok-magyar-etimologiai-szotar-F14D3/h-F2416/haz-F24E3/

Thanks, interesting.

Hmm. If it's derived from kat, kud, kota, koda meaning a little house in finno-ugrig languages it has to be noted that that word exists in Germanic as well with the same meaning (!): kote for a hut in Middle Low German, Dutch kot for a hut, Swedish kåta, English cot for a hut and cote for a barn. My German etymological lexicon states that the word originally likely meant a cave, hole, a covered with wattle living pit. Unfortunately it's not clearer as for the origin but there's nothing said about a loan word.

Conclusion: If it's not all coincidence, the respective word is rather a loan word in these Finno-Ugric languages from Germanic (or other IE languages?) than a loan word from Finno-Ugric in the (continental) Germanic languages. But also that wouldn't mean that háza is derived from Germanic Hus, Haus.

[rothaer]

To be honest I have no idea.
Nyíregyháza was just “Nyír” in the 1200s and its German name is Birkenkirchen.

Interesting, thanks.

[Stryglogg]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kåta#Etymology_2

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/kutą

[Blondie]

Thanks, interesting.

Hmm. If it's derived from kat, kud, kota, koda meaning a little house in finno-ugrig languages it has to be noted that that word exists in Germanic as well with the same meaning (!): kote for a hut in Middle Low German, Dutch kot for a hut, Swedish kåta, English cot for a hut and cote for a barn. My German etymological lexicon states that the word originally likely meant a cave, hole, a covered with wattle living pit. Unfortunately it's not clearer as for the origin but there's nothing said about a loan word.

Conclusion: If it's not all coincidence, the respective word is rather a loan word in these Finno-Ugric languages from Germanic (or other IE languages?) than a loan word from Finno-Ugric in the (continental) Germanic languages. But also that wouldn't mean that háza is derived from Germanic Hus, Haus.

Obviously the Uralic and IE languages have same roots, and they were neighbours for thousands of years. Thats why they have many similarity. These all belong to paleo-european language family:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-European_languages