What is the ancestral profile of the Old Jews?

[Abti]

I have a sneaking suspicion that they were in large part Hittite (related) and Indo-Aryan, with a pulse of East Semitic, and a cline offshoot from the Sumerian culture.

With their uniparentals distinctly designated at the following,

R1b, R1a, R2a, R2b, Q1b, Q2b, J*, G2b, G2a, G1a, G1b, T1a, T1b, E1b1b1, E1b1b2, E1a, L1b, L1a clades.

Indeed, A uniquely Mesopotamian group with significant relations with Mandeans, Assyrians, Armenians, & Persians.

[Abti]

Did you know ancient sample testing is illegal in Israel? so if they happened to find an ancient sample and it happens to be ancient Israelite, they couldn’t be testing by rabbinical law to not disturb tombs of the dead. Then there is no way to really tell what the old Jews were so this was my guess.

[Voskos]

This is all data from the region (Bronze age and two IA = the ones in bold)

J
J
J
n/a (female)
J2a1b1
J
J1a2b
J1a2b
J2a
J1a2b
n/a (female)
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
R
n/a (female)
E1b1b1b2a1
E1b1b1b2a1a
n/a (female)
J1a2b
J1a2b
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
J1a2b
n/a (female)
n/a (female)
J
J
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
n/a (female)
n/a (female)
n/a (female)
R1b1a1a2
J
T1a1a1b2
J1a2b
J1
T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2
J1a2b
E1b1b1b2a1
n/a (female)
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
n/a (female)
J
n/a (female)
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
n/a (female)
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs)
n/a (female)
n/a (female)
J
J2b
n/a (female)

[Abti]

What are they? Israelite? Phoenician? or just old Canaanites of the past in the region? And I’ve seen the paper, the BAM files have shown they don’t aligned much with modern Jewish modals. So it can’t be them.

[Power77]

What are they? Israelite? Phoenician? or just old Canaanites of the past in the region? And I’ve seen the paper, the BAM files have shown they don’t aligned much with modern Jewish modals. So it can’t be them.

The J* samples were probably Israelites. While the E1b1b* ones may belong to Canaanites. The R1* samples could've either belonged to Sea Peoples or Hittites IMO.

[Abti]

The J* samples were probably Israelites. While the E1b1b* ones may belong to Canaanites. The R1* samples could've either belonged to Sea Peoples or Hittites IMO.

Most definitely.

[Voskos]

In The Bible Unearthed (2001), Finkelstein and Silberman summarised recent studies. They described how, up until 1967, the Israelite heartland in the highlands of western Palestine was virtually an archaeological terra incognita. Since then, intensive surveys have examined the traditional territories of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh. These surveys have revealed the sudden emergence of a new culture contrasting with the Philistine and Canaanite societies existing in Canaan in the Iron Age.[32] This new culture is characterised by a lack of pork remains (whereas pork formed 20% of the Philistine diet in places), by an abandonment of the Philistine/Canaanite custom of having highly decorated pottery, and by the practice of circumcision. The Israelite ethnic identity had originated, not from the Exodus and a subsequent conquest, but from a transformation of the existing Canaanite-Philistine cultures

[Abti]

Perhaps there were multiple types of Israelites. The Shasu-Filistine Proto-Samaritan type of the kingdom of Israel… And a second type of the kingdom of Judea, the one I’m probably thinking of. The first type were probably converted enmasse into the Judean type of religion, perhaps mostly during the Hasmonean dynasty…

[Voskos]

The highlight of the very partial results is that the Y chromosome in the man belongs to the J2 haplogroup, a group of closely-related DNA sequences that is believed to have originated in the Caucasus or Eastern Anatolia, a vast area including modern-day eastern Turkey, northwest Iran, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan and southern Russia


It’s true that no ancient Hebrew inscriptions were found in the burial confirming that the deceased were Israelites. However, the pottery assemblage is typical of what is found in late First Temple-period burials in Jerusalem, Finkelstein explains. Together with Kiryat Yearim’s proximity to what was then the capital of the Kingdom of Judah, this suggests that the locals can indeed be identified as ancient Hebrews, he says.

latest find it seems

[Abti]

@Power77

There were two tribes of Samaritans on FTdna one being 100% E and the other being 100% J. :)

[Abti]

Realistically, the old Jews would have to be pretty white and European in origin. King David was a redhead and likely R1-M173 too like many Jews today. Middle eastern or not you’ll find them anywhere in the diaspora. Why don’t more people vouch for Jews in their Aryanness? :confused3: