What If Germanics and Slavs migrated to Latin America Instead of Iberian?

[Laredo]

What would the colonization of Latin America would be instead of Iberians? Would mixed marriages happened etc. Would people In Mexico be speaking a Germanic dialect today?

[reboun]

They would probably speak a kind of German or English dialect. Or maybe Russian?

[Laredo]

They would probably speak a kind of German or English dialect. Or maybe Russian?

I get a strong feeling If somehow In a parallel universe /dimension If Mexico was a German colony perhaps the Nazis would've won In WW2 due to its proximity to the United States tanks missiles pointing towards the U.S etc.

[Etelfrido]

Look at the British West Indies, the Dutch Caribbean, Guyana and Suriname. As colonies of exploitation, the region would probably still be underdeveloped but Latin America would likely speak Germanic languages, but there are exceptions like Indonesia.

Regarding the Dutch, its administration of Dutch Brazil wasn't a consensus even among them, see Michiel van Groesen's The Legacy of Dutch Brazil:


In October 1630, in the wake of the Dutch seizure of Olinda and Recifefrom the Portuguese, the board of the West India Company decided, with the approval of the States General, on a limited and provisional release of its monopoly. To attract immigration and to boost the local economy, it decided to open the trade on the coasts of Brazil to "all inhabitants of the United Provinces [ ... ] together with all Portuguese, Brazilian, and other inhabitants of Brazil," provided the traders paid taxes and dues to the West India Company and used only Company ships for their trade.3 When the edict was renewed four years later, with substantially reduced freight rates, many independent merchants started to engage in Dutch Brazil's colonial market. Yet before long, the private profits they made evoked disapproval among some shareholders ofthe West India Company who wanted to see the Company's monopoly reinstated in its entirety. Asone pamphleteer argued in 1636, all Dutch power and prosperity were based on the "weak and changeable foundation" of trade, and only a strong Company that simultaneously pursued "conquests and commerce"could "make the foundation of our State stronger." Invoking the example of Rome's struggle against Carthage, the pamphleteer claimed that the Dutch could outdo its rival Spain by moving the war to the colonial arena, thereby forcing other nations to "seek their commerce more and more in our quarters." Moreover, the Dutch should ensure that "the poor wild Cannibals, Man-eaters, would be brought to the knowledge of the true Faith, and not by our enemies to the damned Idolatry of the Papacy." Those who supported the opening up of Brazil's trade, he argued, would only frustrate this civilizing mission of commerce and conquest. Weakened by "opulence and luxury," they forsook the primecreed of republican politics- the principle that the common good should always prevail over private interests. 4

This argument against the participation of the independent merchantsin the Brazil trade was backed by several shareholders of the West India Company, for example in Utrecht, who argued that the release of its monopoly left the Company only with the costs of the war while the freetraders were able to make "excessively large gains." 5 In line with these complaints, the States General eventually decided at the end of December 1636 to reinstate the original monopoly of the West India Company, and they forcefully reiterated this resolution in March and April the following year.

The rulings of the States General met with great criticism among those who favored the status quo, in particular private merchants and shareholders in Amsterdam. To a large extent, the debate over the monopoly of the West India Company confirmed or even deepened the existing ideological rift between the two seaborne provinces" of Zeeland and Holland. 6 As a true frontier province, Zeeland generally favored fervent anti-Spanish policies, and accordingly it supported a strong, militant West India Company to fight the Habsburg monarchy throughout the Atlantic, combining conquest with commerce. Yet the province of Holland, dominated by its largest city, Amsterdam, advocated a more lenient attitude, categorically championing commercial expansion over the costly uncertainties of war. Free trade in Brazil was considered to be paramount for such expansion. To make their case in the public debate, Amsterdam merchants claimed that freedom of trade entailed the best means to promote Dutch colonization. Dutch Brazil was in need of immigrants willing to cultivate the land, they argued, but these new colonists could be attracted only if they were offered comprehensive commercial liberties. Without "free men,"one pamphleteer argued, conquered "lands cannot be cultivated," and without cultivation the whole Dutch colonial enterprise in Brazil would eventually fail.7 Claims such as these were in turn countered by advocatesof the Company's monopoly, who, according to the account of Caspar Barlaeus, argued that such colonies of free men would easily develop into degenerate communities that might try to outdo the motherland, just as Tyre was once outshone by its colony in Carthage. 8

One thing we can assert is that it'd had been more religiously tolerant, proof of that was the establishment of the first synagogue in the Americas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahal_Zur_Israel_Synagogue).

Dutch Brazil is often regarded as an incongruity by historians of both the Atlantic world and Latin America. As a geographical and political entity, the colony existed only between 1624 (some would say 1630) and 1654, but the implications of this bold northern European infiltration into the Iberian sphere of influence were nevertheless profound: The establishment of Dutch Brazil undermined the notion of Habsburg supremacy in Latin America and worsened Luso-Spanish relations at home. It brought a hitherto unimaginable form of religious tolerance to the Atlantic and created a multicultural society in which Protestant soldiers, Catholic planters, African slaves, and Sephardic Jews all lived alongside the country’s various native groups

A lack of proselytism could result in a more pronounced racial divide similar to the Apartheid:

Outside the realms of Dutch, Portuguese, and Brazilian historiography, Dutch Brazil is perhaps best known for its religious tolerance. As Evan Haefeli reminds us in Chapter 6, the Calvinist authorities were compelled to extend religious tolerance beyond Christianity to include openly professed Judaism, as well as various African beliefs. Many scholars have written enthusiastically about the unrivaled religious liberties in Dutch Brazil, but evaluating the legacy of tolerance in a broader Atlantic context has been hampered by attempts to search for theoretical legitimations of tolerant attitudes. Haefeli proposes to look at the particulars of what was possible and what was done in Recife, focusing on non-Christian groups in the Atlantic world that so far have been described almost exclusively in terms of their potential as converts to Christianity. In Brazil, the missionary ideals of Reformed theologians and servants of the public church were rarely put into practice. Ministers even refused requests to baptize slaves because the Africans were perceived as striving for freedom rather than for Christian virtues. This remarkable reluctanceto convert enslaved Africans, as well as Jews, to Christianity was unheard of in the Atlantic world. Although these inadvertent practices of religious tolerance in Dutch Brazil were not copied elsewhere, its particular format enabled the Sephardim to prepare for a more lasting Jewish Atlantic and allowed Protestant slave owners to oppose conversion and insist on the religious divide as an essential marker between the free and the slave.Had the Portuguese failed to oust the Dutch from Brazil, the importance the Dutch would give to New Netherland could have been much smaller...

The Histoire des deux lndes, the famous survey of European colonialism published in various versions throughout the 1770s and the 178os bythe abbe Guillaume-Thomas Raynal, contains a remarkable passage onthe history of Dutch Brazil. Having narrated the rise, decline, and fall of Dutch rule in Brazil, Raynal concludes that the Dutch had to part with a conquest that might have become the richest of all the European colonies, and would have given the republic a degree of importance it could never acquire from its own territory.

... and things could have been different at least regarding its Jewish history (https://www.brandeis.edu/hornstein/sarna/americanjewishcultureandscholarship/Archive/JewsintheColonialandEarlyNationalPeriods.pdf).

American Jewish history as we know it began in 1654. In that year, twenty-three Jews - men, women and children, refugees from Recife, Brazil which Portugal had just recaptured from Holland - sailed into the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam on a vessel probably named the Sainte Catherine.

[gixajo]

I'm sure of one thing, that you wouldn't exist.

[Laredo]

I'm sure of one thing, that you wouldn't exist.

Agree, reminds me of this growing up within mexicans it's common to hear saying I'm glad the Spanish came otherwise we wouldn't exist but at the same time they be saying to bad England didn't colonized us lol.

[gixajo]

I mean to you as an individual, for obvious reasons, you partially descend from Spaniards.

Maybe Slavs and Germans would not have acted like the Anglos did in North America, the Slavs could well have mixed like we did, and as for the Germans, perhaps they would have maintained two well-differentiated classes, one subjugated and another made up of near 100% German "Criollos", barely mixing but without necessarily eliminating them, the indigenous population.

The Germans are practical and productive, why eliminate a submissive and cheap workforce? "Let them work for us, but let us not stain our lineage by mixing with them."

And about the Slavs as I have already said .I wouldn't be surprised if they had ended up creating a "mestizo" society like we did, mixing with the indigenous.

[Tradra]

There has been some German influence on Mexico, there's a reason why Narco Corridos kinda sound like Bayern music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br1WP-TOi6M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keoLA703geY

[Katarzyna]

I’m curious how the metizos would look like in that case because probably some med phenotype + Native American looks different than a Northern European which would be the case if Germanics and Slavs immigrated

Well there is only one way to find out, let’s send some of our single Northern European men to South America and get a native girl. Let’s see what comes out

[Laredo]

I’m curious how the metizos would look like in that case because probably some med phenotype + Native American looks different than a Northern European which would be the case if Germanics and Slavs immigrated

Well there is only one way to find out, let’s send some of our single Northern European men to South America and get a native girl. Let’s see what comes out

Mestizos can have a lot varieties there no such thing as a uniform look. But I think Germanic contribution would be cool more blue or green eyes contribution. Even among afram mulattos blue eyes are not rare among them.

[Blondie]

Its a good question. So the scenario is what if Brasil is a dutch colony and Hispanic America is german colony.

Brasil: the germanic colonism did not support the race mixing, so in this case Brasil would be such apartheid state like South Africa was. Apart from this, a dutch Brasil would be pretty similar to the present portugese Brasil, i mean living standards, economy, except Brasil would not be mixed like today, and the nation would be more divided with many ethnic conflict just like the USA because of segregation and racial hierarchy. Also the brasilian independence would happens much later, only after the WW2, and they would have much closer relationship with Netherlands than now with Portugal.

Most parts of Hispanic America: not much would have changed, germans would threat them in similar way like spaniards. These would be also apartheid states, so the race mixing will not happens, it means its hard to belive that Hispanic America would be german speaker nowadays. They adopted the spanish language because they mixed with each other all the time, In the german scenario the german would be only the language of the elite, these amerindians would be still native american speaker, and the german language would disappear after a while, after their independence in 19. century.

German Mexico: This is the most interesting part, and Mexico would be totally different today. In the past 50 million german migrated to USA, in this scenario if Mexico would be a german colony then this 50 million people would choose Mexico instead of USA for sure. It means Mexico would be a huge populated ethnic german country, obviously without native mexicans. The german government would support this creating a New Germany idea and of course they would also support the extermination of native mexicans, so they would be a very small population nowadays living in variuos reserves just like in USA.
The german Mexico would enjoy the support of Germany, so the biggest european economy and army would behind them. The mexican army would be similar to prussian army including the militarism, structure and of course mexicans would have the most advanced weapons. It means the mexican-americans wars would be very different, its very possible that mexicans would defeat the US Army so americans would never reach the Pacific Ocean. Such areas like Texas, Arizona, California and the whole west coast would be part of Mexico, and the german populated Mexico would be such advanced like the USA in the east coast and they would be rivals as well, North America would not be peaceful but there would be tons of war between german-mexicans and americans. Without the western territories USA will never be a global superpower, and this Great Mexico would be a very rich, large and advanced greatpower.

In summary: so what would have been better the latin or germanic colonization? The answer is simple: depends on who you are. If your native american or non white then the spanish colonization is definitely better choice, because you have much more human rights, more independence, and your still alive in the case of native mexicans. If your latin american white then the germanic colonization can be more beneficial especially if you live in Mexico, but basically the economy, living standards would be similar to present Hispanic America, maybe except Brasil would be a little bit richer.

[Laredo]

I mean to you as an individual, for obvious reasons, you partially descend from Spaniards.

Maybe Slavs and Germans would not have acted like the Anglos did in North America, the Slavs could well have mixed like we did, and as for the Germans, perhaps they would have maintained two well-differentiated classes, one subjugated and another made up of near 100% German "Criollos", barely mixing but without necessarily eliminating them, the indigenous population.

The Germans are practical and productive, why eliminate a submissive and cheap workforce? "Let them work for us, but let us not stain our lineage by mixing with them."

And about the Slavs as I have already said .I wouldn't be surprised if they had ended up creating a "mestizo" society like we did, mixing with the indigenous.

Yeah this applies to all mexicans.

[Scarface F]

I mean to you as an individual, for obvious reasons, you partially descend from Spaniards.

Maybe Slavs and Germans would not have acted like the Anglos did in North America, the Slavs could well have mixed like we did, and as for the Germans, perhaps they would have maintained two well-differentiated classes, one subjugated and another made up of near 100% German "Criollos", barely mixing but without necessarily eliminating them, the indigenous population.

The Germans are practical and productive, why eliminate a submissive and cheap workforce? "Let them work for us, but let us not stain our lineage by mixing with them."

And about the Slavs as I have already said .I wouldn't be surprised if they had ended up creating a "mestizo" society like we did, mixing with the indigenous.

+1

Very realistic scenario.

[Tooting Carmen]

I am not sure about Slavic colonisation, but Germanic colonisation would be basically like South Africa and Namibia.

[Scarface F]

I am not sure about Slavic colonisation, but Germanic colonisation would be basically like South Africa and Namibia.

Slavs would mix with natives just like Spaniards and Portuguese.

[Tooting Carmen]

Slavs would mix with natives just like Spaniards and Portuguese.

What makes you say that?

[Scarface F]

What makes you say that?

Slavic history.

[Tooting Carmen]

Slavic history.

Could you elaborate?

[Scarface F]

Could you elaborate?

Slavs freed their slaves and mixed with them while adopting them in their societies while Germanics created caste systems with conquered peoples living separate from them. Obviously in the end Germanics mixed too but it took much longer and approach was very different.

[Kess]

Slavic nations historically had fewer colonies and a smaller presence in the Americas compared to Germanic nations. Why are they in this equation?

[Rumata]

Look at Siberia. It's not far fetched to say that for Russians it's much like America for Spaniards. Just mind that it was scarcely populated and had nothing like imperial peoples of America (Inka, Aztecks etc).

[Etelfrido]

I'm sure Germanics would mix much less and install racial divisions in their colonies. While Germans didn't come as colonizers to the Americas, but as immigrants, one can see the there were movements such as the German Colonial Society (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Colonial_Society) and the Pan-German League (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-German_League) that wanted stronger connections with Southern Brazil (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?375729-German-Weltpolitik-regarding-Southern-Brazil) and praised its German community for not being as assimilated as the German community in North America. If they didn't see assimilation into other European culture - in this case, Portuguese and English ones -, we can imagine what they thought of mixing with Natives and Africans.

As for Slavs, we could look at the history of Siberian colonization by Russians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia) to have an idea. Just like in the Iberian colonization of Latin America, there was slavery, genocide and spread o diseases:


In order to subjugate the natives and collect yasak (fur tribute), a series of winter outposts (zimovie) and forts (ostrogs) were built at the confluences of major rivers and streams and important portages.

[...] n addition to committing massacres the Cossacks also devastated the wildlife by slaughtering massive numbers of animals for fur.[19] 90% of the Kamchadals and half of the Vogules were killed from the eighteenth to nineteenth centuries and the rapid slaughter of the indigenous population led to entire ethnic groups being entirely wiped out, with around 12 exterminated groups which could be named by Nikolai Yadrintsev as of 1882. Much of the slaughter was brought on by the Siberian fur trade.[20]

[...] The conquest of Siberia also resulted in the spread of diseases. Historian John F. Richards wrote: "... it is doubtful that the total early modern Siberian population exceeded 300,000 persons. ... New diseases weakened and demoralized the indigenous peoples of Siberia. The worst of these was smallpox "because of its swift spread, the high death rates, and the permanent disfigurement of survivors." ... In the 1650s, it moved east of the Yenisey, where it carried away up to 80 percent of the Tungus and Yakut populations. In the 1690s, smallpox epidemics reduced Yukagir numbers by an estimated 44 percent. The disease moved rapidly from group to group across Siberia."[6]

However, just like Iberians they also mixed with the peoples they encountered. In Willard Sunderland's Russians into Iakuts? "Going Native" and Problems of Russian National Identity in the Siberian North, we see that:

While nativized Russians could be found across most of the empire's eastern borderlands, the most strikingly nativized communities (at least as far as late imperial observers were concerned) were located in the Siberian north. In the late sixteenth century, Russians began moving into the far reaches of northern Siberia where they established small trading, trapping, and fishing towns, and intermarried with indigenous peoples. These patterns of sparse settlement and frequent Russian-native intermarriage ultimately gave rise to a string of small, isolated, and heavily nativized old-resident (starozhily) islets all across the taiga and tundra zones of northern Siberia, from roughly the Ob River in the west to the Bering Sea in the east. When Russian ethnog- raphers, physical anthropologists, publicists, and other visitors made their way to these northerly places in the late imperial period, they found Russians who spoke Siberian languages better than their own, ate raw meat, practiced "shamanism," and looked so strikingly "alien" that they seemed virtually indistinguishable from the lakuts, Ostiaks, Samoeds, and other "primitive" Siberians that lived around them. For educated Russians, the sight of these lapsed Russian northerners in- variably prompted feelings of shock, revulsion, and pity as well as a kind of national soul-searching in which these educated observers sought to explain how such an unfortunate turnaround in assimilation could possibly have occurred.

One can also see that there was a strive to assimilate the Ostyaks (http://and broad-shouldered."38 Based on this profile, the Russians seemed to represent "a kind of transitional stage" between "Aryan races" in the west and "Uralic-Altaic races" in the east, with nonetheless "a clear predominance of western elements."39 The Russians were thus of mixed racial provenance, but they were generally tall, strongly constituted, and definitely European.).

In theory at least, assimilation was expected to proceed upward according to this hierarchy. With time, nomads and hunter-gatherers would naturally become agriculturalists, while Muslims, Buddhists, and pagans would naturally become Orthodox. Assimilation was thus as- sociated with progress, and progress, at least in the case of the eastern "aliens," was associated with Russification (obrusenie). The link between assimilation and Russification is clearly captured in the notion of a so- called merging of peoples (sliianie). From its earliest usage in the mid- to-late 1700s, the idea of merging did not really mean merging at all, at least not in the sense of a mutual blending of national cultures. Rather, the term sliianie defined a particular Enlightenment-style vision of Russification in which the Russians would gradually absorb the "backward" peoples of the empire and draw them into the more ad- vanced fold of Russian culture. Over the first half of the nineteenth century, the implicit link between merging and Russification was further reinforced. The rise of romanticism, the on-going "discovery" of the folk, and the establishment of Russian nationalist policies under Nicholas I all tended to confirm that the Russians were the people to emulate.6 For lesser developed eastern peoples, eventual fusion with the Russians was simply a matter of course. By the mid-1800s, as one scholar has recently suggested, it was widely assumed that the empire's inorodtsy would either merge with the Russians or "get out of the way."8

The widespread appeal of the merging ideal suggests that Russians were not averse to the mixing of peoples. Interethnic or interracial mixing was an indisputable aspect of Russian history and geography, and no serious attempt was made to hinder it. Intermarriage between Russians and non-Russians was entirely permissible as long as the non- Russians were at least nominally Orthodox, and, on a deeper level, Russia's mixed cultural and ethnic heritage was often interpreted as a source of national strength and uniqueness (samobytnost'). The reason mixing was so untroubling, however, was that it was not supposed to be open ended. As far as the state and most observers were concerned, Russians were expected to borrow what was useful from European peoples (steel-tipped plows, new crops, and rational work habits from German colonists, for example) while passing on their own superior cultural ways to lesser developed non-Russians within the empire.9 At no point in the mixing process, however, were the Russians themselves to surrender their Russianness. As the prominent ethnographer and linguist N. I. Nadezhdin noted in 1846, the Russian people had long intermixed with foreign "civilizations" in the west and yet "the Russian never ceased to be Russian, never turned into a 'white-eyed' Finn ... a Polish 'Papist,' or a German 'Lutheranite.'"'l Mixing was fine, but the outcome was expected to be culturally Russian and not something else.

[...] When the dominant element turned out to be "alien," however, things took a different turn. Here concerns about the Russian racial "type" were readily expressed. Most Russian observers felt that too much mixing with too many of the wrong kinds of people (that is, primitive natives) could lead to undesirable racial consequences for Russians as they acquired "alien" physical characteristics or sometimes became "aliens" altogether. In the Siberian north, this process of physical nativization was usually described in terms of racial degeneration. Since Russians were physically superior (that is, taller, stronger, and so on) than the Siberian northerners, intermixing between too few Russians and too many natives diluted the Russian stock and diminished the Russians' physical abilities. Although Russian concerns about interracial mixing were never as extreme as they were in Europe or the United States, the Russian description of racial degeneration in the north shared important commonalities with similar western discourses. In each case, too much of the wrong kind of racial hybridity met with expressions of anxiety, revulsion, and pity.3"

But just whom were the Russians in the north degenerating from and whom were they degenerating into? With the establishment of Russian anthropological science in the late nineteenth century, Russian scholars began collecting data on the skin and hair coloring, height, posture, facial shape, and physical strength of different Russian populations in different parts of the empire.37 While there were many regional variations within the "Great Russian type," the average Russian tended to "display either fair or dark coloring with light-colored and dark-colored eyes almost evenly distributed throughout the population. His height is above average and his head is moderately rounded ...; his facial and cranial measurements tend to be large, while his face tends to be longer than it is wide; his extremities are well-developed and proportionate; and his posture is rather muscular [krepkoe] and broad-shouldered."38 Based on this profile, the Russians seemed to represent "a kind of transitional stage" between "Aryan races" in the west and "Uralic-Altaic races" in the east, with nonetheless "a clear predominance of western elements."39 The Russians were thus of mixed racial provenance, but they were generally tall, strongly constituted, and definitely European.


Furthermore, Russians did have a colonization experience in the Americas - Alaska - (https://watermark.silverchair.com/EH603_02Kan_Fpp.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_ Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAA2gwggNkBgkqhkiG9w0BBw agggNVMIIDUQIBADCCA0oGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQME AS4wEQQM02cR7YLqzetdbsE7AgEQgIIDG7YUuRFdQ3rb7QB_Ep 0jq4Tm7ZQlJaIA7k0H53F3Z8vg-plEfxHunOOdAw25zcDJLtHFKO-UviNbHcqppID0pc8EA2Utq7yvnNJ3niarZCcl2-atln-U2gyxPWKo7tqS8ZwbT1XYKFbjV3rtfvHt1vBpVsqXOJMNeGadI oOwfaoYunf1In_-JnQ3eWUy-r56pSCiuUV5HYheJ7GZNrvS8iFpfpavEeXPfNIzNevTLFMdrnR VGKQ6Cd2aBr3jn75HBOjRwGU-hai2gMKNtlKBbcoIZPpMbOys20Hp1n26R21CsPwLsYjU2xWnmL zQYiOY0PBSzj8TWwCvbr-C-3hfnCRTXfgGlnF0hIRxWtK1-aXHuxqIj3vXEYJqoAg3Xb9I43bKZOD7c3fFYis9L43IjptOiPy AiSuDYSWrJWxVb0rO0EV-et2MGF4qPidItIlKuUwQsXrCvsXUaCFEcssRdMTnBtf6_A8-NJuVvvXJuWpCVtUodM79pJ0yf6ASD42Ebxuig9VEdlnD-avnFj0jpRJx2IKxP5OLHova0qdvYnGrJOaecHNAyMnREy5U6EE cx4BiGjXDd7eZSjrdax4IXg-7KmWt9yVMPzaYOILQUvQ0CdDGYP5qywCX0av5qzFgw_-SO8Latp88w1yH0LwZmQi6mxKfbvmeCLhabCUjSFThtUn9nf1LM teNAho3su9kwn8gSVPxaQYYxXnkxbBMy9gv63U43pocQ-GyPdWgBjlTmKbcE2ZePVzYWT2ksFP-BDZ8jNvgFAmaYHu374trqyqy92EVtB87hK3GwvVbAMHmg70MSO vHRG3kF94QwWI5mJLoLGsJe-_ura4WArpdpg-MsNTA9j29Vr_PSgKzChAGS-NOhPPFNNH1v6kQGS5-1VGKFbW-BHN98Fqsrj0srIpXbLXhIxoXF3z6oio7ZSXSi69OvewAc5Ks7g 8VyNf7IM9_Ui5Jg2yUQtKO46BJZbBCYeU4o_5wDeiCnhT5sepB FnID2dqOx6Ngh28iWTplh3xLdxPA3fpdtqlYZ_xf36AhX-UpH6MWofHdDw) and it was compared to the French model in North America and there was even a parallel to the Spanish one in Latin America.

As elsewhere in North America, male newcomers from Russia andNative Alaskan women established various types of intimate relations,from short-term liaisons to legal marriages sanctified by the Church. Someof the offspring of these relationships stayed with their mothers and thusremained culturally native, yet many others became cultural hybrids. Asmentioned above, their experiences and the economic and social rolesplayed by them on this northern frontier paralleled in a number of waysthose of the métis children of French men and aboriginal women in theCanadian fur trade. Thus many of the men of mixed Russian-native parentage were bilingual, got baptized in the Russian Church, and shared many ofthe tastes and habits of their fathers.

[...] As Sonja Luehrmann (2008) points out, the situation in Alaska wasvery different because it was not legally part of the Russian empire, andhence the RAC’s Russian employees stayed there legally only on seven-yearpassports and continued to be registered in their city of origin. In orderto become members of a particular Russian estate, their mixed-blood children had to be registered in the father’s city. However, such an arrangement was inconvenient both for the Russian men who themselves—and/or whose Alaskan-born wives and children—might not have wanted togo back to Russia and especially for the RAC, which desperately neededa self-sustaining population in Alaska to alleviate the difficulty of hiringemployees from European Russia and Siberia to work in a distant part ofthe world, not terribly attractive to most ordinary Russians. As Ilya Vinkovetsky (2011: 40, 46) suggests, the RAC leadership must have borrowed theterm creole from the Spanish in the early 1800s to identify this new type ofpeople as persons born outside Russia to non-Russian mothers who weresupposed to remain in Alaska rather than settle back in the old country. Tounderscore this objective, the Creoles, while proclaimed to be Russian subjects, were freed from taxation as long as they remained in Alaska.5

Unlike the Alaska Natives, the Creoles usually received some formof Russian education, from that of the basic elementary parish to specialized training in navigation and other skills. Unlike the natives, the Creoleswere not indentured to the RAC; but those who had pursued their education at company expense in Russia or in Russian America’s capital, NovoArkhangel’sk (Sitka), were obligated to work for the company for ten years.Moreover, having been separated spatially and culturally from their nativekin and being often indebted to the company, they had few choices butto work for it anyway. The Creoles lived in Russian communities or theirown communities and were strongly discouraged from taking part in themarine mammal hunting activities reserved for the RAC’s native employees. In fact, they developed a strong disdain for such activities and tended tolook down on the latter. Russian men preferred to marry Creole rather thannative women, since the former tended to be culturally closer to them. Theirchildren were counted as Creoles unless the father occupied a high rank inthe RAC hierarchy and could claim Russian identity for his children. Creole men married Creole or native women, with their children joining thefather’s estate.


A genetic study in the Siberian Northeast (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S1022795410110153) show a significant share of the mtDNA of the descendants of Russian settlers in the region is from native populations.

Thus, the molecular genetic analysis of mtDNAdiversity has shown that the mitochondrial gene poolof Russkoe Ust’e, Pokhodsk, and Markovo peopleswas mostly inherited from Yukaghirs, which entirelyagrees with the population history and geography ofthe region [7]. According to historical documents, in the late 17th century, “over the entire vast Yukaghirland from the Lena to the Anadyr’, wives of both military men and hunters were Yukaghir women.” [4].

With all that, I'm confident in saying Slavs in the New World would at least mix more with non-Europeans than Germanics. If it'd be of a similar magnitude to the mixing underwent by Iberians, or if it'd be more or less widespread, I can't say with certainty.

[Rumata]

Latins didn't incorporate just every people either. Argentinian and Uruguayan peoples were almost fully wiped out.

[Dušan]

I am kinda surprised that so many of my Slavic fellows would mix with other non white ethnicities. For me personally it’s a no-go. Even if I decided for some reason to immigrate to Latin America I would either date other Euros and Middle Easteners or just stay single for life .
Keep in mind I’m not a racist. It’s just a personal preference. People should be treated equally in society and slavery should be abolished

Well its personal preferance if some Slav want to date with hot Latinas.
Why is that bother you?

[Mortimer]

Im not sure it has something to do with either being german slav or spaniard that they mix more or less I think it has to do with historical circumstances single men with no to few white women will mix more whether they are spaniards or germans if they bring their women they will mix less

[Mortimer]

Mestizos can have a lot varieties there no such thing as a uniform look. But I think Germanic contribution would be cool more blue or green eyes contribution. Even among afram mulattos blue eyes are not rare among them.

I agree tyra banks has green eyes the hodge twins have blue eyes

[Tradra]

My son is half Chilean, he has green eyes like me and he looks kinda like a Kosovo Albanian I went to highschool with.

[DraviXi99]

I think that the germanic probably would have built a first world continent,dont know about the slavs though.

[Rumata]

Look at Siberia. It's not far fetched to say that for Russians it's much like America for Spaniards. Just mind that it was scarcely populated and had nothing like imperial peoples of America (Inka, Aztecks etc).

Opps, Siberia has Mongolic Buryats and once there was Mongol empire.

[Abti]

The ultimate barbarian specimen.

JK! There is a story of a German traveller who met uncontacted peoples somewhere in South America on YouTube with a video of it in the Middle Ages or so.

[Abti]

Look at Siberia. It's not far fetched to say that for Russians it's much like America for Spaniards. Just mind that it was scarcely populated and had nothing like imperial peoples of America (Inka, Aztecks etc).

Except those Siberians are immune to everything Russians, Poles, Ukrainians have. If not they would be dead long time ago.

[Rumata]

Except those Siberians are immune to everything Russians, Poles, Ukrainians have. If not they would be dead long time ago.

Are or were? The difference is huge. If you mean were, than this sounds quite contradicting to that:


[...] The conquest of Siberia also resulted in the spread of diseases. Historian John F. Richards wrote: "... it is doubtful that the total early modern Siberian population exceeded 300,000 persons. ... New diseases weakened and demoralized the indigenous peoples of Siberia. The worst of these was smallpox "because of its swift spread, the high death rates, and the permanent disfigurement of survivors." ... In the 1650s, it moved east of the Yenisey, where it carried away up to 80 percent of the Tungus and Yakut populations. In the 1690s, smallpox epidemics reduced Yukagir numbers by an estimated 44 percent. The disease moved rapidly from group to group across Siberia."[6]

[Etelfrido]

The ultimate barbarian specimen.

JK! There is a story of a German traveller who met uncontacted peoples somewhere in South America on YouTube with a video of it in the Middle Ages or so.
Hans Staden?

[Mafrense]

Latins didn't incorporate just every people either. Argentinian and Uruguayan peoples were almost fully wiped out.

There was more indigenous population replacement in Brazil than Argentina.

[Rumata]

There was more indigenous population replacement in Brazil than Argentina.

I see. So Brazil too.


There are various documented accounts of smallpox being knowingly used as a biological weapon by New Brazilian villagers that wanted to get rid of nearby Amerindian tribes (not always aggressive ones). The most "classical", according to Anthropologist, Mércio Pereira Gomes, happened in Caxias, in south Maranhão, where local farmers, wanting more land to extend their cattle farms, gave clothing owned by ill villagers (that normally would be burned to prevent further infection) to the Timbira. The clothing infected the entire tribe, and they had neither immunity nor cure. Similar things happened in other villages throughout South America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Brazil#cite_note-33

[gixajo]

Latins didn't incorporate just every people either. Argentinian and Uruguayan peoples were almost fully wiped out.

After having been established as independent states, and not so much under the Spanish Crown dependence.

[Tooting Carmen]

After having been established as independent states, and not so much under the Spanish Crown dependence.

Yes, especially in Argentina's case, the overwhelming majority of the massacres of Amerindians occurred post-Independence.

[cass]

Such an experiment existed in Southern Brazil. Map of Polish, mixed, German and Italian colonies.
https://republikapolonia.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5-mapa-768x795.jpg


https://youtu.be/Dxvq20v5tys?si=kJi-XEOYMaT72GAF

[Etelfrido]

Such an experiment existed in Southern Brazil. Map of Polish, mixed, German and Italian colonies.
https://republikapolonia.pl/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5-mapa-768x795.jpg


https://youtu.be/Dxvq20v5tys?si=kJi-XEOYMaT72GAF
That's true, in fact there were such immigrants in other regions of Latin America too but in such cases they didn't come as conquistadores.

[cass]

That's true, in fact there were such immigrants in other regions of Latin America too but in such cases they didn't come as conquistadores.
From the colonist's guide:

The tools can also include guns - shotguns and six-shot revolvers, necessary for defense
against the Indians, as well as wild animals appearing in the wild.

[Etelfrido]

From the colonist's guide:
Yes, they had to populate areas that had Amerindians but what I meant was that those regions weren't controlled by Germany/Italy/Poland. I don't know if that was what the OP had in mind though, that's just what I understood.

[cass]

Yes, they had to populate areas that had Amerindians but what I meant was that those regions weren't controlled by Germany/Italy/Poland. I don't know if that was what the OP had in mind though, that's just what I understood.

From what I know, in the 1930s there was a plan to separate Southern Brazil and subordinate it to Poland, Germany and Italy. This resulted in the abolition of autonomy and forced Brazilianization. A priest in Parana had to convince the Brazilian authorities that the Polish eagle on the church was actually the Holy Spirit.

[Katarzyna]

Yes, they had to populate areas that had Amerindians but what I meant was that those regions weren't controlled by Germany/Italy/Poland. I don't know if that was what the OP had in mind though, that's just what I understood.

Did they mix with non whites (natives)?

[Etelfrido]

Did they mix with non whites (natives)?
Some probably did but most recent immigrants (that is, those who weren't Iberians who came here in the beginning of the colonization), especially those who went to rural areas and built their own communities, didn't.

[cass]

Did they mix with non whites (natives)?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Munic%C3%ADpios_do_Brasil_-_Grupos_%C3%A9tnico-raciais_predominantes.png

Rather unlikely if they remain in the south.

[Dandelion]

Slavic America with Polish and Russian as the most widespread colonial languages. Poles being the more laid-back ones and mixing with Native Americans, as Haitians spared the Poles during their revolt.

[cass]

Slavic America with Polish and Russian as the most widespread colonial languages. Poles being the more laid-back ones and mixing with Native Americans, as Haitians spared the Poles during their revolt.

You don't really understand much.

One of colonies of the French Empire, Santo Domingo, now Haiti and the Dominican Republic rebelled against its master. Napoleon sent 50,000 men to quell the uprising. Among these soldiers were 5,000 Poles who served in the Polish Legion attached to the French Army. The Poles had no idea where they were being sent until they reached Port au Prince on September 2, 1802. They first thought that they were being shipped to Louisiana.

In the ensuing months by late 1802, 4,000 Poles were dead mostly from tropical diseases and military action. Seeing the suffering of the black people and their desire for freedom and independence, which coincided with their own, the Poles became convinced that they were participating in an immoral cause. By early 1803, the Poles began to disobey French orders and joined the rebels. General Dessalines, was so impressed with the Poles that he formed a Guard of Honor made up of all Poles on his staff. By November 1803, the whole remaining Polish contingent decided that they could no longer serve the French and during the Battle of Vertieres, the Poles joined General Dessalines.

[Dandelion]

You don't really understand much.

Poles sympathised with their plight indeed and the black population saw that. Sadly for Haiti, their society never was able to thrive. International relations remain important. Napoleon and his reinstatement of slavery (which he abolished again later). It was one of his more questionable decisions.

[cass]

Poles sympathised with their plight indeed and the black population saw that. Sadly for Haiti, their society never was able to thrive. International relations remain important. Napoleon and his reinstatement of slavery (which he abolished again later). It was one of his more questionable decisions.

I read from Konczny that
Lippaplens, i.e. Dutch-Malay hybrids produce only daughters, and in the second or third child generations become sterile.
This passage was actually censored in the English edition.

We know that over half a million mixed-bloods from the East Indies live in the Netherlands. Out of curiosity, I have to ask, are Malay hybrids really genetically different and in the long run infertile?

[Dandelion]

I read from Konczny that
Lippaplens, i.e. Dutch-Malay hybrids produce only daughters, and in the second or third child generations become sterile.
This passage was actually censored in the English edition.

We know that over half a million mixed-bloods from the East Indies live in the Netherlands. Out of curiosity, I have to ask, are Malay hybrids really genetically different and in the long run infertile?

I have never heard about that and personally I don't really care that much about race. Culture is more important. I know many black people who think and behave like Dutch people or Flemish people for that.

[Gredos]

What would the colonization of Latin America would be instead of Iberians? Would mixed marriages happened etc. Would people In Mexico be speaking a Germanic dialect today?

Intermarriage is a myth, the reality is that the small original mestizo populations prospered and multiplied for five centuries to the detriment of the native populations. in the north they are still in the process

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1500w,f_auto,q_auto:best/msnbc/Components/Art/USNEWS/060309/AP_HISPANIC_POPULATION.gif

in terms of language, you can see that Guyanese, Surinamese, and others, acquired the language of the dominant colonizer

[tropicalslavic]

That would go so hard.

[Etelfrido]

That would go so hard.
What do you mean?

[tropicalslavic]

What do you mean?

I think if Slavic people ever colonized some place that wasn't miserably cold it would be pretty neat. However we just don't have colonialism in us.

[Scarface F]

I think if Slavic people ever colonized some place that wasn't miserably cold it would be pretty neat. However we just don't have colonialism in us.

Slavs already colonized Balkans, Volga-Urals, Siberia and large part of central Europe. You don't become largest meta-ethnicity in Europe by not moving around. Oh yeah, black sea steppe too.

[Nurzat]

Russians + Greeks made the Balkans


Russians + Native Americans would make something in a way similar to Central Asia


you would be part of Eastern Europe culturally, so in the world maps America would be seen to the right, not to the left, so we would see the Eastern European cultural continuum from East Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia to Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, to Central Asia, to Siberia, to Americas.


we'd also nicely stay next to US like a thorn in their side, haha, we wouldn't sell Alaska etc


but we'd still be a bit more corrupt and a bit poorer than the West I think, because we are Oriental in mentality - Eastern Europe is Oriental in mentality. I am not saying it as a bad thing, but we have our own challenges related to that

[Victor]

I think if Slavic people ever colonized some place that wasn't miserably cold it would be pretty neat. However we just don't have colonialism in us.

Say what?

[Scarface F]

Czech Republic is also product of Slavic colonization from the east. It was originally inhabited by Celts. Than Germanics came, and finally Slavs.

[Dušan]

Czech Republic is also product of Slavic colonization from the east. It was originally inhabited by Celts. Than Germanics came, and finally Slavs.

https://www.languagesoftheworld.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Slavs700.jpg

[tropicalslavic]

Slavs already colonized Balkans, Volga-Urals, Siberia and large part of central Europe. You don't become largest meta-ethnicity in Europe by not moving around. Oh yeah, black sea steppe too.


Say what?


Czech Republic is also product of Slavic colonization from the east. It was originally inhabited by Celts. Than Germanics came, and finally Slavs.

I think that if you look at any expansions of Slavic people or actions of Slavic people (anywhere from Russia to Czechia) and call it "colonialism", it's a very very very liberal use of the world. In my mind, there is a big difference between Slavic people moving 250 km from home and pushing some Celts out, and Spaniards sailing across an ocean and colonizing an entire continent and so on. I also think the relationship between Russia and the various non-Slavic states in its federation is quite different than the relationship between Western Europeans and any place colonized by them.

[Dušan]

I think that if you look at any expansions of Slavic people or actions of Slavic people (anywhere from Russia to Czechia) and call it "colonialism", it's a very very very liberal use of the world. In my mind, there is a big difference between Slavic people moving 250 km from home and pushing some Celts out, and Spaniards sailing across an ocean and colonizing an entire continent and so on. I also think the relationship between Russia and the various non-Slavic states in its federation is quite different than the relationship between Western Europeans and any place colonized by them.

They are not pushed out, but mixed with Slavs.
The same as in Balkans, or with northern Russia regions.

[Rumata]

Kamchatka and Alaska are about as distant from core Slavic lands as Americas are from Iberia. But the counter argument is that Russian empire of that time was influenced by Western Europe significantly.

[tropicalslavic]

They are not pushed out, but mixed with Slavs.
The same as in Balkans, or with northern Russia regions.

I don't want to think about being part Celtic. :( Either way we did not create anything like a "Mestizo" effect... pretty much every Slavic country is just a Slavic country. I'm not arguing that anything is better or worse a certain way, just that it's different from how Spaniards colonized the Americas.


Kamchatka and Alaska are about as distant from core Slavic lands as Americas are from Iberia. But the counter argument is that Russian empire of that time was influenced by Western Europe significantly.

I'll give you Alaska... it's quite interesting to me. I'm actually Orthodox, unlike most Czechs, so I am a little familiar with the culture and history of Alaska and it's really cool actually. It's probably the only place in the United States that has had long term influence from Russian culture in a truly meaningful way, not counting places like Chicago or NYC which have just had pockets of immigrants living in them (but not really affecting the local culture). Now, if only the Russians decided to try that somewhere less depressing and cold, the world would be a better place for people like me. :D

[Voskos]

Germanics weren't successful at colonizing anything, they either got kicked out of everywhere or assimilated, at best they gave us some mixed cultures (see England). Hence their obsession with phenotypical and financial dominance.

I'm not saying this as a bad thing, it's just a fact. Actually Germanics are probably more libertarian than others (from a cultural point of view), which always resulted in them being outnumbered.

[Rumata]

I'll give you Alaska... it's quite interesting to me. I'm actually Orthodox, unlike most Czechs, so I am a little familiar with the culture and history of Alaska and it's really cool actually. It's probably the only place in the United States that has had long term influence from Russian culture in a truly meaningful way, not counting places like Chicago or NYC which have just had pockets of immigrants living in them (but not really affecting the local culture). Now, if only the Russians decided to try that somewhere less depressing and cold, the world would be a better place for people like me. :D
They quite did it where I live too.

As for NYC, I hear places like Brighton Beach largelly belong to Jewish immigrants, so what Russian culture there...

Your opinion about Alaska is interesting to me.

[Scarface F]

I don't want to think about being part Celtic. :( Either way we did not create anything like a "Mestizo" effect... pretty much every Slavic country is just a Slavic country.

Czechs are far from being pure Slavs genetically.

Target: Czech
Distance: 1.2920% / 1.29200111 | R2P

62.0 Russian_Southwest
38.0 German_North_Hesse

Speaking about mestizos, south Slavs are kinda similar to that. We mixed with vulgar Latin-speaking populations.
Most Slavs are mixed with people they conquered today, except Belarusians, some western Russians, north Ukrainians and northeastern Poles.

[Laredo]

Germanics weren't successful at colonizing anything, they either got kicked out of everywhere or assimilated, at best they gave us some mixed cultures (see England). Hence their obsession with phenotypical and financial dominance.

I'm not saying this as a bad thing, it's just a fact. Actually Germanics are probably more libertarian than others (from a cultural point of view), which always resulted in them being outnumbered.

The French were also pretty bad at colonizing look what happened with Haiti they Imported too many blacks that got out of control Haiti was 100% amerindian before Columbus arriving to the America's now it's nearly that black that reason why Quebec it's not a sithole it's thanks to admistrastion of England.


Spaniards mixed but later Introduced Castas system and unfortunately this has never been erased from our societies countries basically the "more Spaniard" the more you corresponds with status beauty etc.


So there's pros and cons I guess.

[tropicalslavic]

Czechs are far from being pure Slavs genetically.

Target: Czech
Distance: 1.2920% / 1.29200111 | R2P

62.0 Russian_Southwest
38.0 German_North_Hesse

Speaking about mestizos, south Slavs are kinda similar to that. We mixed with vulgar Latin-speaking populations.
Most Slavs are mixed with people they conquered today, except Belarusians, some western Russians, north Ukrainians and northeastern Poles.

Thankfully I don't have any German. Most people outside of Prague have maybe trace amounts.

[Scarface F]

Thankfully I don't have any German. Most people outside of Prague have maybe trace amounts.

This is Czech average and it includes Moravians. All people included in the average don't have any recent German ancestry.
It is from ancient Celtic and Germanic tribes. Take a DNA test and you will score it yourself.

[Touijer]

Germans didn’t mix in Namibia, Dutch didn’t mix in South Africa, English didn’t mix in India, Belgians didn’t mix in Congo. While Portuguese & Spaniards mixed everywhere they went. I think it would remain the same for Germans and Slavs. We don’t have many exemples of Slavs but I can think of Kazakhstan, Takijs where Russians are there own ethnic group and everyone stays with their own

[Ugo]

The Slavs are complete shit, they sit in their holes and dugouts. Only Russians, who are half Finnish, give the Slavs honor. And then these Slavs shit on our heads. Russians are the only Slavs who entered the new World, and only one word is known about Slavs - Russians.. We left our DNA to the Tlingit and other Indians in the USA. Poles and other Slavs - welcome to reality. You are nobody.

[Incal]

The key question here is: Have they also brought women? Or not? Pussy is too strong, even if it's brown.

[Rumata]

...We don’t have many exemples of Slavs but I can think of Kazakhstan, Takijs where Russians are there own ethnic group and everyone stays with their own
Kazakhstan and Tajikistan were recent additions to the empire. And Tajikistan was an extremely remote too. Tatarstan is an older one, look there instead. Even though it mostly wasn't converted.

[#Oda#]

I think if Slavic people ever colonized some place that wasn't miserably cold it would be pretty neat. However we just don't have colonialism in us.

No, you simply had no opportunity.

[Peterski]

Germans didn’t mix in Namibia, Dutch didn’t mix in South Africa

They did - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds

[Scarface F]

I am a Slavic colonist on Adriatic Sea and I'm damn proud of it :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lVQCjyD6Qs

Croats arrive to the Adria

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c2/b8/7a/c2b87a2d9fb55991dbc8679d05e83dff.jpg

[Rumata]

Euro 88, Soviet and Dutch teams

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/be/c6/e6bec6389095852d8fa533d119468a43.jpg

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_1440,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape/cover/sport/AS-Photo-Archive-a9a92ceb06fe8eba1972fcec134f5e71.jpg

[Scarface F]

:D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7i3ZyduZC4

[Touijer]

They did - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds

Interesting, my mistake

[Laredo]

Germans didn’t mix in Namibia, Dutch didn’t mix in South Africa, English didn’t mix in India, Belgians didn’t mix in Congo. While Portuguese & Spaniards mixed everywhere they went. I think it would remain the same for Germans and Slavs. We don’t have many exemples of Slavs but I can think of Kazakhstan, Takijs where Russians are there own ethnic group and everyone stays with their own

Not in the Philippines and we don't really know why it's something we Hispanics have been discussing for years on this forum.

[Katarzyna]

I am a Slavic colonist on Adriatic Sea and I'm damn proud of it :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lVQCjyD6Qs

Croats arrive to the Adria

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c2/b8/7a/c2b87a2d9fb55991dbc8679d05e83dff.jpg

That’s not colonialism, it’s just being invaded by your neighbors. Basically what european countries did to each other for centuries. You are still 100% white, regardless whether you mixed with the locals or not. In order to be a colony, you would need to immigrate to another continent.

[Scarface F]

That’s not colonialism, it’s just being invaded by your neighbors. Basically what european countries did to each other for centuries. You are still 100% white, regardless whether you mixed with the locals or not. In order to be a colony, you would need to immigrate to another continent.

But Adriatic sea is nowhere near Slavic homeland :D

People our ancestors mixed with were extremely far away from them genetically because they were Paleo Balkanites (southern Europeans) mixed with Eastern Romans and Anatolians.

It's really a unique mix. In Poland you guys mixed with Germanics, but Germanics are also northern Euros. Our non Slavic part is still white but quote exotic :D

Also topography, climate and flora. My region Dalmatia looks more MENA than northern Euro, so I imagine for incoming Slavs it felt like another planet lol

[Victor]

except Belarusians

Just part of them

[Victor]

But Adriatic sea is nowhere near Slavic homeland :D

People our ancestors mixed with were extremely far away from them genetically because they were Paleo Balkanites (southern Europeans) mixed with Eastern Romans and Anatolians.

It's really a unique mix. In Poland you guys mixed with Germanics, but Germanics are also northern Euros. Our non Slavic part is still white but quote exotic :D

Also topography, climate and flora. My region Dalmatia looks more MENA than northern Euro, so I imagine for incoming Slavs it felt like another planet lol

Southern Slavs is the best mix in question of aesthetics and mentality, I don't give a damn if someone disagrees.

[Scarface F]

Just part of them

Yes, Belarus has Baltic admixture except southern Belarus but Balts themselves are heavily slavicized and it seems modern Belarusians come over 90% identical to unmixed early Slavs genetically. Baltic admix is closest to Slavs genetically so it isn't pulling you away from how proto Slavs were.


Southern Slavs is the best mix in question of aesthetics and mentality, I don't give a damn if someone disagrees.

All Slavs are lovely :pinklove:

[Zeno]

If Germans did it, it would be like South Africa in terms of the regime.

If Slavs did so, something like Central Asia would occur.

[Ugo]

Southern Slavs is the best mix in question of aesthetics and mentality, I don't give a damn if someone disagrees.
You reason like a child. The best mixture is where you live. There are different people everywhere and only Vitya thinks like a first grader.

[Scarface F]

If Germans did it, it would be like South Africa in terms of the regime.

If Slavs did so, something like Central Asia would occur.

Reasonable guess.

[Victor]

Yes, Belarus has Baltic admixture except southern Belarus but Balts themselves are heavily slavicized and it seems modern Belarusians come over 90% identical to unixed early Slavs genetically. Bltic admix is closest to Slavs genetically so it isn't pulling you away from how proto Slavs were.



All Slavs are lovely :pinklove:

You know what's being on the same wave. Of the Western Slavs just some Slovaks seemed to be cool to me. En masse Western Slavs seem boring to me (it doesn't mean I hate them or something like this). My best friend (Bosnian Serb from Novi Sad) was living in Western Poland for few years married to Polish girl and he said that people are very boring down there, uncommunicative by average and cold.

[Laredo]

Southern Slavs is the best mix in question of aesthetics and mentality, I don't give a damn if someone disagrees.

Slavic admixture would be nice too, but Spain didn't allowed any other European to emigrate to its colonies under its possession not even Portuguese. That's how greedy and egoistic they were.


I mean Mexico it's already a mixed melting pot from 40 % European to 75% rest amerindian SSA , they are Arabs too mostly are at least part and 1 million Salama Hayek etc etc Carlos Slim etc

[Victor]

You reason like a child. The best mixture is where you live. There are different people everywhere and only Vitya thinks like a first grader.

Who cares? Don't try to be boring, it's my role.

[Zeno]

Reasonable guess.

Well, the Dutch, the closest to the Germans, acted like that in South Africa.

And then it's the Russians with the USSR.

[Victor]

And then it's the Russians with the USSR.

Explain.

[Scarface F]

You know what's being on the same wave. Of the Western Slavs just some Slovaks seemed to be cool to me. En masse Western Slavs seem boring to me (it doesn't mean I hate them or something like this). My best friend (Bosnian Serb from Novi Sad) was living in Western Poland for few years married to Polish girl and he said that people are very boring down there, uncommunicative by average and cold.

Slovenes are very cold too. They are very similar to western Slavs in mentality.

I have only been to Czechia and would need to re-visit to properly asses but my friend lives in Slovakia (Bratislava) and she says Slovaks are weird, cold and depressed. Also very xenophobic. She's married to Asian dude and he was attacked by skinheads something like 2 times in one year. It never happened to him in Croatia. Btw Slovaks and Croats get along great but she said they are lot more closed than us.

She gets along better with Hungarian minority there, she said they were more open/friendly.

Ex boyfriend lived in Poland (Plock) with his Polish gf and he had no complains. He said it was just more conservative than Croatia and he is right wing thus he enjoyed that. I think he likes living in Poland but he is very cold person himself so maybe that's why he fits in so well lol.

[Zeno]

Explain.

You maintained the ethnic groups themselves, but you imposed Russification and millions of Russians were placed in Kazakhstan, creating cities like Orenburg. Kazakhstan is a very good example here.

[Ugo]

Who cares? Don't try to be boring, it's my role.
Nice joke, but there is a difference. Russians are closer to each other from Arkhangelsk to Stavropol than southern Russians and Croats. You're trying to prove something else. Sorry. Not a single Serb or Croat or Bulgarian will be as close to a southern Russian as a northern Russian.

[Victor]

Slovenes are very cold too. They are very similar to western Slavs in mentality.

I have only been to Czechia and would need to re-visit to properly asses but my friend lives in Slovakia (Bratislava) and she says Slovaks are weird, cold and depressed. Also very xenophobic. She's married to Asian dude and he was attached by skinheads something like 2 times in one year. It never happened to him in Croatia. Btw Slovaks and Croats get along great but she said they are lot more closed than us.

She gets along better with Hungarian minority there, she said they were more open/friendly.

Ex boyfriend lived in Poland (Plock) with his Polish gf and he had no complaints. He said it was just more conservative than Croatia and he is right wing thus he enjoyed that. I think he likes living in Poland but he is very cold person himself so maybe that's why he fits in so well lol.

I feel like Slovaks vary, too. But generally I've pointed them out by my own experience. I know one Slovak who married a Serbian girl in Novi Sad, he's from Banjska Bystrica, he said that life is extremely boring there, people are cold and except for job majority spends time at home. He's "Balkanized" one, he came to matches of Red Star Belgrade in same years as I did, worked in Serbia as volunteer and generally enjoyed the Balkans, he's a right wing lunatic but generally kind and a bit amusing person xD

[Victor]

Nice joke, but there is a difference. Russians are closer to each other from Arkhangelsk to Stavropol than southern Russians and Croats. You're trying to prove something else. Sorry. Not a single Serb or Croat or Bulgarian will be as close to a southern Russian as a northern Russian.

I'm talking about myself. Plus you're making up "wider story", I'm not trying to prove anything.

[Scarface F]

I feel like Slovaks vary, too. But generally I've pointed them out by my own experience. I know one Slovak who married a Serbian girl in Novi Sad, he's from Banjska Bystrica, he said that life is extremely boring there, people are cold and except for job majority spends time at home. He's "Balkanized" one, he came to matches of Red Star Belgrade in same years as I did, worked in Serbia as volunteer and generally enjoyed the Balkans, he's a right wing lunatic but generally kind and a bit amusing person xD

Interesting. I heard Vojvodina Slovaks picked up bit of south Slavic mentality compared to Slovakia Slovaks and are more extraverted.

Btw, many western Slavs are huge Serbophiles despite Serbs are orthodox. It's from interwar era when Czehoslovakia and Poland were alllied with Monarchist Yugoslavia. Serbs were seen as Pan-Slavic and anti-German and western Slavs always felt threatened by Germans (except Slovaks I guess). Also because western Slavs are quite based and anti-muslim they support Serb cause in Kosovo.

Probably Serbs pro Russian attitude cooled off many Poles bit overall Western Slavs have always been Serbophiles.

[majevica]

Nice joke, but there is a difference. Russians are closer to each other from Arkhangelsk to Stavropol than southern Russians and Croats. You're trying to prove something else. Sorry. Not a single Serb or Croat or Bulgarian will be as close to a southern Russian as a northern Russian.

Distance to: Russian_Belgorod
0.05961130 majevica_scaled
0.07752941 Russian_Pinezhsky

[Ugo]

I'm talking about myself. Plus you're making up "wider story", I'm not trying to prove anything.
You're an uneducated, boring guy. What's the "wider story"? Read school textbooks on Russian history, impostor. Did you play truant?

[Victor]

Interesting. I heard Vojvodina Slovaks picked up bit of south Slavic mentality compared to Slovakia Slovaks and are more extraverted.

Btw, many western Slavs are huge Serbophiles depite Serbs are orthodox. It's from interwar era when Czehoslaovakia and Poland were alllied with Monarchist Yugoslavia. Serbs were seen as Pan-Slavic and anti-German and western Slavs always felt threatened by Germans (except Slovaks I guess). Also because western Slavs are quite based and anti-muslim they support Serb cause in Kosovo.

Probably Serbs pro Russian attitude cooled off many Poles bit overall Western Slavs have always been Serbophiles.

That's it, but I feel like often Western Slav Serbophilia is based more on own low confidence, they see or imagine something in Serbs they feel they lack in themselves.

[Dušan]

Interesting. I heard Vojvodina Slovaks picked up bit of south Slavic mentality compared to Slovakia Slovaks and are more extraverted.

Btw, many western Slavs are huge Serbophiles depite Serbs are orthodox. It's from interwar era when Czehoslovakia and Poland were alllied with Monarchist Yugoslavia. Serbs were seen as Pan-Slavic and anti-German and western Slavs always felt threatened by Germans (except Slovaks I guess). Also because western Slavs are quite based and anti-muslim they support Serb cause in Kosovo.

Probably Serbs pro Russian attitude cooled off many Poles bit overall Western Slavs have always been Serbophiles.

Are you jealous if they like us?

We also like all western and eastern Slavs.

[Ugo]

Distance to: Russian_Belgorod
0.05961130 majevica_scaled
0.07752941 Russian_Pinezhsky
Russian from Pinega has 1/4 Russian Slavic blood. No Slav has this. We Russians have a common genetic history. No Croat will be closer to a southern Russian than a northern Russian.

[Scarface F]

Are you jealous if they like us?

We also like all western and eastern Slavs.

Nope. I like Russians. But Finno Ugrics are my favorites. I probably like Russia because it has strong Uralic component.

[Ugo]

Nope. I like Russians. But Finno Ugrics are my favorites. I probably like Russia because it has strong Uralic component.
I have a Ural component. Do you like me, chick?

[Dušan]

That's it, but I feel like often Western Slav Serbophilia is based more on own low confidence, they see or imagine something in Serbs they feel they lack in themselves.

Maybe they like us, because without one Bosnian Serb, no modern Poland, Czechia and Slovakia would exist.

[Scarface F]

I have a Ural component. Do you like me, chick?

Nope. You are a rude troll. Go to your wife.

[Ugo]

Nope. You are a rude troll. Go to your wife.
Rude doesn't mean stupid and boring...Think...maybe it's better me and not Victor?:love_4:

[Victor]

Maybe they like us, because without one Bosnian Serb, no modern Poland, Czechia and Slovakia would exist.

This war would happen without Gavrilo Princip, anyway. Austrians just used this case for a Casus Belli, if not Princip, they would find another reason. Serbia has nothing to do with murder of Franz-Ferdinand and his wife.

[Dušan]

This war would happen without Gavrilo Princip, anyway. Austrians just used this case for a Casus Belli, if not Princip, they would find another reason. Serbia has nothing to do with murder of Franz-Ferdinand and his wife.

A-H attacked Serbia, and the war they started meant their end.
The end of A-H meant freedom of Slovakia, Czechia, Poland.

[Scarface F]

This war would happen without Gavrilo Princip, anyway. Austrians just used this case for a Casus Belli, if not Princip, they would find another reason. Serbia has nothing to do with murder of Franz-Ferdinand and his wife.

He had ties with black hand, so yes Serbia was involved. Black hand also massacred pro-German Serb Obrenović dynasty.

[Victor]

A-H attacked Serbia, and the war they started meant their end.
The end of A-H meant freedom of Slovakia, Czechia, Poland.

An awful cost for this, absolutely not worth. Both fall of AH and Russian Empire (remember, half of Poland was under Russia). Then it was time for bloody maniacs obsessed with revolution (it doesn't matter if it's national revolution, Bolshevik or whatever).

[Victor]

He had ties with black hand, so yes Serbia was involved. Black hand also massacred pro-German Serb Obrenović dynasty.

I'm negative towards masonic national-maniacs no matter are them Russians, Turks, Serbs, Germans etc. National revolutionary movements were never popular movements (peasants and plebs were not thinking on this level), but masonic crap of aristocrats and student youth. All the leaders of such movements were usually atheists, nihilists, quite often former priests and monks. Literally everything in the spirit of Great French revolution. Again, I'm not debating with anyone about it, just that's my antiideological, antimodernist position.

[Dušan]

An awful cost for this, absolutely not worth. Both fall of AH and Russian Empire (remember, half of Poland was under Russia). Then it was time for bloody maniacs obsessed with revolution (it doesn't matter if it's national revolution, Bolshevik or whatever).

I feel sorry for fall of Russian Empire, but about A-H not a single moment.

Millions of Serbs of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Vojvodina and Krajina were subdued to the Germanic emperor, and border was in the middle of Belgrade.

Good riddance to Austria-Hungary!

[Victor]

I feel sorry for fall of Russian Empire, but about A-H not a single moment

It came together. In the past, Russia was a "gendarme of Europe" helping the neighbors to cut down the revolutionary movements for the sake of order. Just like, thanks God, Decembrist rebellion was cut down in the very beginning, so we didn't experience nothing like blood of Great French revolution by the hands of the fiery aristocratic patriots and nationalists with their best intentions towards Russia and its populace.

[Scarface F]

I feel sorry for fall of Russian Empire, but about A-H not a single moment.

Millions of Serbs of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Vojvodina and Krajina were subdued to the Germanic emperor, and border was in the middle of Belgrade.

Good riddance to Austria-Hungary!

How ungrateful since Austrians settled you in Croatia, Vojvodina amd western Bosnia. Without them you would remain rajah in Ottoman Empire.

Ancestors of Austro Hungarian Serbs willingly entered into Vienna service and settled in foreign lands, very interesting. But after you wanted to take these lands as yours it became a problem.

Reminds me of current MENA invasion of Europe.

[Dušan]

How ungrateful since Austrians settled you in Croatia, Vojvodina amd western Bosnia. Without them you would remain rajah in Ottoman Empire.

Ancestors of Austro Hungarian Serbs willingly entered into Vienna service and settled in foreign lands, very interesting. But after you wanted to take these lands as yours it became a problem.

Reminds me of current MENA invasion of Europe.

Nothing ungreatful by wanting complete freedom and to live in free Serbia with fellow countrymen.

[Victor]

Nothing ungreatful by wanting complete freedom and to live in free Serbia with fellow countrymen.

If I'm not wrong then Kingdom of Yugoslavia came which as latter result separated Serbs with borders even more.

[Sorab12]

Original name for Vojvodina was in short Srpsko vojvodstvo or Vojvodstvo Srbija i Tamiški Banat.
https://iili.io/JTnbl0x.png (https://freeimage.host/)
BTW Serbs were the first to settle Srpsko vojvodstvo or Vojvodina which was almost barren landscape during that time .

[Dušan]

If I'm not wrong then Kingdom of Yugoslavia came which as latter result separated Serbs with borders even more.

No. Kingdom of Yugoslavia was unitary state with Serbian dominance.

Later Tito communist Yugoslavia indeed separated Serbs with inner-Republic boundaries.

[Creoda]

Something like this :laugh:

I, the great general of the German soldiers, send this letter to the Hereros. The Hereros are German subjects no longer. They have killed, stolen, cut off the ears and other parts of the body of wounded soldiers, and now are too cowardly to want to fight any longer. I announce to the people that whoever hands me one of the chiefs shall receive 1,000 marks, and 5,000 marks for Samuel Maherero. The Herero nation must now leave the country. If it refuses, I shall compel it to do so with the 'long tube' (cannon). Any Herero found inside the German frontier, with or without a gun or cattle, will be executed. I shall spare neither women nor children. I shall give the order to drive them away and fire on them. Such are my words to the Herero people.

[Victor]

No. Kingdom of Yugoslavia was unitary state with Serbian dominance.

Later Tito communist Yugoslavia indeed separated Serbs with inner-Republic boundaries.

I see Tito's movement as a spiritual descendant of the masonic, almost national-leftist Balkan Slavs of the pre WWI period. Ustasha movement was also quite leftist in the very beginning. All the national movements were more or less leftist, with a seek for "justice" and abstract freedom at any cost, which were never seeked by masses, but by demon possessed aristocratic fools and student youth dreaming about some utopias. It would be good if all of them would be hanging on trees from Russia to Portugal. The 2nd World war also has roots there. Millions of people died in 1914-1945 because the World was full of good intended ideological dreamers who seeked for paradise on Earth through Bolshevik, National revolutions, through exterminating Gyppos, Slavs or Jews, through exterminating rich people or those who just have more than them, they've seen the paradise coming in the end of their mad ideas. In the World of imperial ORDER the numbers dead and exterminated for the sake of freedom and various utopias in 20 century cannot me imagined. Empires don't have any gnostic goals, they just exist and maintain order, they don't have ideology and any vision of "better future".

[Laredo]

Something like this :laugh:

Very sad and Inhumane what the English settlers did In Canada, United States, Australia etc literally wiped them out of their existence etc.

[Creoda]

Very sad and Inhumane what the English settlers did In Canada, United States, Australia etc literally wiped them out of their existence etc.
I'm comfortable overall with what the English did in those places, certainly a net benefit to humanity, which can't always be said for what happened in Latin America.

[Frowning Man]

Slavs would mix with natives just like Spaniards and Portuguese.
I cannot speak for everyone, but living in Russia since childhood, I did not notice that Russians (Slavs) would actively mix with other peoples. Yes, there are mixtures, but not so often. The conquest and settlement of Siberia and the Far East by Russians, but the groups of Russians living there are not particularly mixed with the local peoples. Also, Russians living in Kazakhstan and other countries of Central Asia extremely rarely mix with locals. Although now is the 21st century, a lot may have changed, but I doubt it.

[Katarzyna]

But Adriatic sea is nowhere near Slavic homeland :D

People our ancestors mixed with were extremely far away from them genetically because they were Paleo Balkanites (southern Europeans) mixed with Eastern Romans and Anatolians.

It's really a unique mix. In Poland you guys mixed with Germanics, but Germanics are also northern Euros. Our non Slavic part is still white but quote exotic :D

Also topography, climate and flora. My region Dalmatia looks more MENA than northern Euro, so I imagine for incoming Slavs it felt like another planet lol

True, but all Slavs are slightly different. Also West and East Slavs are very different. If someone had a picture of me, Vessna and Ugo people would clearly see who is the West slav here and who is the East Slav.
I for instance wouldn’t pass as an East Slav (if we exclude some Western Ukrainians), and so wouldn’t many other Poles, Czechs and Slovaks. So all Slavs are basically unique in their looks.

[tk'es]

What If Germanics and Slavs migrated to Latin America Instead of Iberian?



i can't even imagine that.. i'd leave it as it is, this way latin america looks stunning and magnificent

[Victor]

i can't even imagine that.. i'd leave it as it is, this way latin america looks stunning and magnificent

It actually happened in Argentina and Brazil, there are lots of people with Germanic and Slavic ancestry in exact regions.

[Laredo]

i can't even imagine that.. i'd leave it as it is, this way latin america looks stunning and magnificent

Agree, each Latin American country its very unique In admixtures too not all of them are uniform same % Mexico it's mainly European and native with bit SSA, Carribean mainly triracial exception Cuban and Puerto Rico who are mainly almost Castizo triracial. Central America It's mainly balanced triracial.


Argentina and Uruguay mainly castizo etc.

[Varda]

Interesting. I heard Vojvodina Slovaks picked up bit of south Slavic mentality compared to Slovakia Slovaks and are more extraverted.

Btw, many western Slavs are huge Serbophiles despite Serbs are orthodox. It's from interwar era when Czehoslovakia and Poland were alllied with Monarchist Yugoslavia. Serbs were seen as Pan-Slavic and anti-German and western Slavs always felt threatened by Germans (except Slovaks I guess). Also because western Slavs are quite based and anti-muslim they support Serb cause in Kosovo.

Probably Serbs pro Russian attitude cooled off many Poles bit overall Western Slavs have always been Serbophiles.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?376925-Vacation-in-Montenegro-in-September&p=7800726&viewfull=1#post7800726

[Victor]

Euro 88, Soviet and Dutch teams

I see two Tatars (Dasaev and Khidiatullin from Spartak Moscow) and lots of Ukrainians from Lobanovsky's Dinamo Kiev (Protasov, Belanov and Zavarov are Russians from Ukraine tho). Vassili Rats is a Transcarpathian Hungarian. Aleinikov and Gotsmanov are from Minsk, I count them normally as Russians. But no one who was Russian in Soviet definition of this word.

[Victor]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?376925-Vacation-in-Montenegro-in-September&p=7800726&viewfull=1#post7800726

It depends on which cross-section, class of society you were dealing with. I know many people from Russia who won't sit at the same table with me, and many who will become brothers with you while drinking the second bottle of strong booze in an evening. Surely, there are always exceptions. In Sremska Kamenica there was a common grill house "Kod Srkija" 100 meters from my home where I used to watch football sometimes on TV while drinking beer. One of Gazprom NIS Russian bosses often came there by his posh Mercedes and drank beer spending times with locals, he was a regular there, very simple person in communication.

[Varda]

Original name for Vojvodina was in short Srpsko vojvodstvo or Vojvodstvo Srbija i Tamiški Banat.
https://iili.io/JTnbl0x.png (https://freeimage.host/)
BTW Serbs were the first to settle Srpsko vojvodstvo or Vojvodina which was almost barren landscape during that time .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkIChhRMCKg

[Scarface F]

True, but all Slavs are slightly different. Also West and East Slavs are very different. If someone had a picture of me, Vessna and Ugo people would clearly see who is the West slav here and who is the East Slav.
I for instance wouldn’t pass as an East Slav (if we exclude some Western Ukrainians), and so wouldn’t many other Poles, Czechs and Slovaks. So all Slavs are basically unique in their looks.

Yes, true. West and East Slavs don't look the same overal despite big overlap. You look very West Slavic, but you can pass in NW South Slav areas too. Ugo passes easily as Bosnian muslim. He looks what he is, but he really blends in without effort.

It's Vessna who is most distinct looking. She can't pass for south Slav easily. I think she looks very Belarusian.
But maybe she can pass in Poland? I don't associate her look with Poles, but you will know better and after all Poles are west Slavs who have highest amount of Balto-Slavic shift.

[Scarface F]

Speaking about looks, Victor looked quite East Slavic/steppe Russian with more weight. With less weight he blends in Balkans much better, probably best in Bulgaria. He I think can't pass as West Slavic easily.

[Katarzyna]

Yes, true. West and East Slavs don't look the same overal despite big overlap. You look very West Slavic, but you can pass in NW South Slav areas too. Ugo passes easily as Bosnian muslim. He looks what he is, but he really blends in without effort.

It's Vessna who is most distinct looking. She can't pass for south Slav easily. I think she looks very Belarusian.
But maybe she can pass in Poland? I don't associate her look with Poles, but you will know better and after all Poles are west Slavs who have highest amount of Balto-Slavic shift.

She can pass well in North Eastern Poland, where Baltic, low EEF phenotypes are very common. In North west Poland she won’t pass that well as they have more Germanic Nordid influenced types rather than east Baltic ones. I think Cass is a good example for a north western polish look: Borreby, Hallstatt, west Baltid and Danubian Nordid are very common there.
I won’t pass in either of the regions, as my phenotype has its nucleus in Southern Poland and the neighboring Central European countries.

[Scarface F]

She can pass well in North Eastern Poland, where Baltic, low EEF phenotypes are very common. In North west Poland she won’t pass that well as they have more Germanic Nordid influenced types rather than east Baltic ones. I think Cass is a good example for a north western polish look: Borreby, Hallstatt, west Baltid and Danubian Nordid are very common there.
I won’t pass in either of the regions, as my phenotype has its nucleus in Southern Poland and the neighboring Central European countries.

I think east-central Europe around Carpathians is your best fit. West Ukraine, SE Poland (also Gorals), Slovakia.

[Scarface F]

cass looks just like German to me xD But I know Poles can look like Germans and that Kashubs are most Germanic looking Slavs.

[Varda]

How ungrateful since Austrians settled you in Croatia, Vojvodina amd western Bosnia. Without them you would remain rajah in Ottoman Empire.
Really?

Austrians occupied BiH including western Bosnia in 1878, and Serbs lived in WB for centuries earlier. In Vojvodina and most of Croatia where Serbs lived they were present before Austrians. During the Ottoman rule Serbs were absolute majority in present day Vojvodina. Percentage of Serbs started to decline with Austrian rule https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/737654#Population_data_from_the_Ottoman_administra tion_period

[Scarface F]

Really?

Austrians occupied BiH including western Bosnia in 1878, and Serbs lived in WB for centuries earlier. In Vojvodina and most of Croatia where Serbs lived they were present before Austrians. During the Ottoman rule Serbs were absolute majority in present day Vojvodina. Percentage of Serbs started to decline with Austrian rule https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/737654#Population_data_from_the_Ottoman_administra tion_period

Yes I forgot to say they settled to these areas from southeast after Ottomans conquered and ethnically cleansed them. Later they decided to enter Austrian military service and than further settlement happened.

[Victor]

Austrians occupied BiH

There was no BiH back then, nor Serbian/Croatian state there, Austro-Hungarian Empire got the lands of Sarajevo vylaet of Ottoman empire as a result of Berlin Treaty after the Russian-Ottoman war. That's like saying "Russians occupied Moldova in 1812". You can't occupy something non-existent.

It has nothing to do with my attitude towards Serbs or towards any nation, it was a different reality, totally different way of thinking and existence of the humankind, Christian Europeans. You can't apply modern measures of things to 18-19 century or you can do it only partly, very limited. It doesn't work like this, justifying or equating something modern through something what happened before 20 century. I'd even say it's two different humankinds, the previous one is already half-legendary for us, but we still apply our way of thinking, our ideas and dreams to those people to whom we're gonna be alien with all this bullshit.

[ioas12]

Deleted

[Varda]

Really?

Austrians occupied BiH including western Bosnia in 1878, and Serbs lived in WB for centuries earlier. In Vojvodina and most of Croatia where Serbs lived they were present before Austrians. During the Ottoman rule Serbs were absolute majority in present day Vojvodina. Percentage of Serbs started to decline with Austrian rule https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/737654#Population_data_from_the_Ottoman_administra tion_period

After 1718. Vienna began to implement colonization of Vojvodina with various ethnicities: Germans, Hungarians, Slovaks, Rusyns, Romanians etc, they even brought some French people and Catalans (French are assimilated by Germans after few decades and Catalans returned to their homeland). Only Serbs and Bunjevci lived in Vojvodina during the Ottoman period of all present day ethnicities or those which live in Vojvodina until 1945. Hungarians lost continuity due to Ottoman invasion when they left present day Vojvodina. Present day Vojvodinian Hungarians are descendants of Hungarian settlers from western and northern Hungary in 18th and 19th century, small number of them are descendants of Szekelys who arrived from Transilvania in 19th century. Some Vojvodinian Hungarians are descendants of magyarized Slovaks and Germans. István Pásztor for example had German paternal origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/István_Pásztor_(politician)

[ioas12]

There was no BiH back then, nor Serbian/Croatian state there, Austro-Hungarian Empire got the lands of Sarajevo vylaet of Ottoman empire as a result of Berlin Treaty after the Russian-Ottoman war. That's like saying "Russians occupied Moldova in 1812". You can't occupy something non-existent.

It has nothing to do with my attitude towards Serbs or towards any nation, it was a different reality, totally different way of thinking and existence of the humankind, Christian Europeans. You can't apply modern measures of things to 18-19 century or you can do it only partly, very limited. It doesn't work like this, justifying or equating something modern through something what happened before 20 century. I'd even say it's two different humankinds, the previous one is already half-legendary for us, but we still apply our way of thinking, our ideas and dreams to those people to whom we're gonna be alien with all this bullshit.

Well technically Moldova did exist back then https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tDP1TdITs-1NGD0kigoysxLzixIzMksqVTIT1PIzc9JSSzLTAQA2HMMiw&q=principality+of+moldavia&oq=principality+og+mol&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgBEC4YDRiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgkIAR AuGA0YgAQyCQgCEAAYDRiABDIJCAMQABgNGIAEMggIBBAAGA0Y HjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMg0IBxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg 0ICBAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0ICRAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IChAAGIYD GIAEGIoF0gEJMTkyNzRqMGo0qAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-motorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[Katarzyna]

I think east-central Europe around Carpathians is your best fit. West Ukraine, SE Poland (also Gorals), Slovakia.

Fully agree. I worked in Slovakia before and saw so many girls who look exactly like me. And also the parents of my Carpatho-Rusyn ex first thought I’m from Lviv :P . I sometimes really enjoy it because a lot of people offer me help, thinking I’m a Ukrainian refugee. :P

[Victor]

After 1718. Vienna began to implement colonization of Vojvodina with various ethnicities: Germans, Hungarians, Slovaks, Rusyns, Romanians, they even brought some French people and Catalans (French are assimilated by Germans after few decades and Catalans returned to their homeland). Only Serbs and Bunjevci lived in Vojvodina during the Ottoman period of all present day ethnicities or those which live in Vojvodina until 1945. Hungarians lost continuity due to Ottoman invasion when they left present day Vojvodina. Present day Vojvodinian Hungarians are descendants of Hungarian settlers from western and northern Hungary in 18th and 19th century, small number of them are descendants of Szekelys who arrived from Transilvania in 19th century. Some Vojvodinian Hungarians are descendants of magyarized Slovaks and Germans. Istvaán Pásztor for example had German paternal origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/István_Pásztor_(politician)

It's a normal practice on a sparsely populated land you've just gained. Lots of Germans came to Russian Empire, too, Volga Germans used to be a huge group, Southern Ukraine had lots of them. They're non-existent there since 30s due to Bolsheviks who literally exterminated those hardworking people who contributed a lot to Russia in 17-19 century, being good, useful, hardworking, law obeying citizens (I think it's already enough).

[Victor]

Well technically Moldova did exist back then https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tDP1TdITs-1NGD0kigoysxLzixIzMksqVTIT1PIzc9JSSzLTAQA2HMMiw&q=principality+of+moldavia&oq=principality+og+mol&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgBEC4YDRiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgkIAR AuGA0YgAQyCQgCEAAYDRiABDIJCAMQABgNGIAEMggIBBAAGA0Y HjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMg0IBxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg 0ICBAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0ICRAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IChAAGIYD GIAEGIoF0gEJMTkyNzRqMGo0qAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-motorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Technically is a key word. But it would be a total nonsense for a 19 century person.

[ioas12]

Technically is a key word. But it would be a total nonsense for a 19 century person.

Explain

[Victor]

Explain

Well, nobody would think this way in 19 century. They knew what exists and what does not exist. People were more in reality and pragmaticism, not in some gnostic virtual reality as we're in now.

[Varda]

It's a normal practice on a sparsely populated land you've just gained. Lots of Germans came to Russian Empire, too, Volga Germans used to be a huge group, Southern Ukraine had lots of them. They're non-existent there since 30s due to Bolsheviks who literally exterminated those hardworking people who contributed a lot to Russia in 17-19 century, being good, useful, hardworking, law obeying citizens (I think it's already enough).

I know. I just said to Feiichy that Austrians didn't bring Serbs to present day Vojvodina. Serbs in high number settled to present day Vojvodina (in Srem and southern Banat) in the second half of 15th century after the fall of Serbia in 1459. During the Ottoman rule on Vojvodina in 16th and 17th century many Serbs from regions south of Sava and Danube settled there. Finally some Serbs settled in Vojvodina during the Austrian rule, but there was already Serbs in Vojvodina before them who live there for centuries.

[Zohor]

So, I asked chat GPT this question, what do you think about the answer?




If Germanic and Slavic groups had migrated to Latin America instead of the Iberian (mainly Spanish and Portuguese) colonization, it would have led to a significantly different cultural and historical landscape in the region. Here are some potential outcomes and considerations:

1. Cultural Diversity:

Latin America would be more culturally diverse, with influences from Germanic and Slavic languages, traditions, and customs.
The predominant languages spoken might include Germanic languages (like German or Dutch) and Slavic languages (such as Polish or Czech), leading to a linguistic mosaic.

2. Religious Influence:

The predominant religions in Latin America might be Protestantism (common among Germanic groups) and Eastern Orthodoxy or various forms of Slavic Christianity.

3. Political Structures:

The political structures in Latin America could be influenced by Germanic and Slavic political traditions, which historically include various forms of governance, from monarchies to decentralized structures.

4. Economic Systems:

Economic systems could be influenced by the historical practices of Germanic and Slavic societies, which have varied from feudalism to more communal forms of living.

5. Indigenous Peoples:

The impact on indigenous populations would likely differ. While Iberian colonization often led to the blending of European and indigenous cultures, Germanic and Slavic colonization might have resulted in a different dynamic.

6. Trade Routes and Alliances:

Maritime routes and alliances might have developed differently, impacting global trade patterns and geopolitical dynamics. This could have altered the historical balance of power between European nations.

7. Cultural and Artistic Expression:

The arts, literature, and other cultural expressions would likely be different, drawing from the unique traditions of Germanic and Slavic societies.

8. Demographic Composition:

The ethnic composition of the population in Latin America would be significantly different, with a mix of Germanic and Slavic ethnicities alongside indigenous groups.

9. Global Influence:

The global influence of Latin America in terms of culture, science, and politics might have followed a different trajectory, considering the historical impact of Iberian colonies on the world stage.
It's important to note that this hypothetical scenario involves numerous variables, and the actual outcomes would depend on the specific groups that migrated, their interactions with indigenous peoples, and the broader geopolitical context at the time of colonization. Additionally, the butterfly effect could lead to unforeseen consequences and developments.

I didn't ask for shortening because it could make no sense then, it's very basic model of GPT

[Katarzyna]

cass looks just like German to me xD But I know Poles can look like Germans and that Kashubs are most Germanic looking Slavs.

Cass is extremely handsome. I want to marry him and have kids with him. :P

[Victor]

The only 20 century state which didn't go into deepshit of ideological madness is Spain under Franco. He crushed the Socialist maniacs and overcame anarchy, Spain was one of few out of the WWII (probably it's God's mercy while ideological maniacs were bathing in blood), later he even reinstalled the monarchy and Spanish kingdom literally didn't have any modern ideology or "Greater" Gnostic idea.

All the opponents of Franco were ideological "progressive socialists", left-wing minority nationalists. A Christian monarchy, a tool of order opposed those who wanted a disorder.

[Varda]

I am a Slavic colonist on Adriatic Sea and I'm damn proud of it :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lVQCjyD6Qs

Croats arrive to the Adria

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c2/b8/7a/c2b87a2d9fb55991dbc8679d05e83dff.jpg

You are result of urban melting pot in Yugoslavian Socialist Republic of Croatia. :) Without Yugoslavia your recent ancestors from various regions and of different ethnicities probably would never meet each other.

[Varda]

@Scarface F

'The arrival of Croatians on the Adriatic' is national-romantic painting of Oton Iveković from 1905. There are crusader document from 12th century in which is written than in Dalmatia on the coast live Romance people and Slavs in hinterland. Most of Dalmatian islands were not even inhabited before Ottoman invasion.

[Dušan]

There was no BiH back then, nor Serbian/Croatian state there, Austro-Hungarian Empire got the lands of Sarajevo vylaet of Ottoman empire as a result of Berlin Treaty after the Russian-Ottoman war. That's like saying "Russians occupied Moldova in 1812". You can't occupy something non-existent.



Wrong!

None of people of Bosnia wanted foreign Austro-Hungarian rule, neither Serbs, neither Muslims.

Their greedy toward Bosnia cost them entire Empire.
And now getting Vienna full of South Slavs and Turks, as cosmical justice. :)

[Dušan]

All the national movements were more or less leftist, with a seek for "justice" and abstract freedom at any cost

Most of Europe were satisfied with interwar order, and achieving national goals.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/d1fb446a-f5be-409f-b633-86d0f57431f0/denu2mo-3cebc04b-dd84-4541-a5de-aed1a50d6e96.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ IUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQz NzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZT BkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6 W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2QxZmI0NDZhLWY1YmUtNDA5Zi1iNj MzLTg2ZDBmNTc0MzFmMFwvZGVudTJtby0zY2ViYzA0Yi1kZDg0 LTQ1NDEtYTVkZS1hZWQxYTUwZDZlOTYucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIj pbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.TxX7ukx5 OX3HCKaS6tIbVzfL0afqqCr7vUDXcEgN4to

Poles were satisfied, Czechs and Slovaks were satisfied, Romanians were satisfied, Serbs were satisfied...
French, Spanish, Italians... all satisfied...

Only some Austrian maniac who dreamed about Germanic Empire strated the bloody war to destroy peace and order.

[Incal]

I am a Slavic colonist on Adriatic Sea and I'm damn proud of it :)


lol wut? Biggest diaspora is US and Chile.

[Rumata]

I see two Tatars (Dasaev and Khidiatullin from Spartak Moscow) and lots of Ukrainians from Lobanovsky's Dinamo Kiev (Protasov, Belanov and Zavarov are Russians from Ukraine tho). Vassili Rats is a Transcarpathian Hungarian. Aleinikov and Gotsmanov are from Minsk, I count them normally as Russians. But no one who was Russian in Soviet definition of this word.
I think I see what you mean and I can't say if it was done intentionally or not. On the other hand while most of these players played in Ukrainian SSR, only two (Aleksey Mikhailichenko and Gennady Litovchenko) had obviously Ukrainian surnames. Oleg Kuznetsov and Vladimir Bessonov had Russian surnames too.

As for Russian players from RSFSR, I remember Fyodor Cherenkov and the pretext not to include him in the team was that his style was very different from the style of Lobanovsky. Well, it was different indeed, wasn't it? I don't remember details now though.

In this picture, Gotsmanov is absent.

[Victor]

Most of Europe were satisfied with interwar order, and achieving national goals.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/d1fb446a-f5be-409f-b633-86d0f57431f0/denu2mo-3cebc04b-dd84-4541-a5de-aed1a50d6e96.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ IUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQz NzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZT BkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6 W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2QxZmI0NDZhLWY1YmUtNDA5Zi1iNj MzLTg2ZDBmNTc0MzFmMFwvZGVudTJtby0zY2ViYzA0Yi1kZDg0 LTQ1NDEtYTVkZS1hZWQxYTUwZDZlOTYucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIj pbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.TxX7ukx5 OX3HCKaS6tIbVzfL0afqqCr7vUDXcEgN4to

Poles were satisfied, Czechs and Slovaks were satisfied, Romanians were satisfied, Serbs were satisfied...
French, Spanish, Italians... all satisfied...

Only some Austrian maniac who dreamed about Germanic Empire strated the bloody war to destroy peace and order.

It was a Russian project for post WWI Europe

https://q-map.ru/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/1914.jpg

[Victor]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?376925-Vacation-in-Montenegro-in-September&p=7800726&viewfull=1#post7800726

I've mentioned 100 times before btw, those new wave refugee Russians despise Balkanites and view Serbs as worst Russians in miniature and white niggers. 90% of "average Ivan" Russians changed the sea resort locations in comparison where it was ten years ago and Montenegro is not a popular destination anymore.

[Varda]

I've mentioned 100 times before btw, those new wave refugee Russians despise Balkanites and view Serbs as worst Russians in miniature and white niggers. 90% of "average Ivan" Russians changed the sea resort locations in comparison where it was ten years ago and Montenegro is not a popular destination anymore.

I heard from some locals in Montenegro that Russian tourists (not migrants) still visit Montenegrin coast in the last years, but in a smaller number than 10-15 years ago. I also heard Russians still have property at Montenegrin coast.

[Sorab12]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkIChhRMCKg

Sjajna pesma brate nisam je dosad čuo.

[Victor]

I also heard Russians still have property at Montenegrin coast.

Well, where would it go? My relatives have property in EU, at Bulgarian Black Sea coast, they're not oligarchs, so if such times wanna come that their property will be confiscated, it means EU got f**ked really bad with a virus of Bolshevism and denial of property rights.

[Sorab12]

I've mentioned 100 times before btw, those new wave refugee Russians despise Balkanites and view Serbs as worst Russians in miniature and white niggers. 90% of "average Ivan" Russians changed the sea resort locations in comparison where it was ten years ago and Montenegro is not a popular destination anymore.

Im friends with one Russian from Jakutsk whom i met at the local church and hes on friendly term with Serbs .Although ive noticed these IT sector that came recently from Russia are more reserved .

[Victor]

Im friends with one Russian from Jakutsk whom i met at the local church and hes on friendly term with Serbs .Although ive noticed these IT sector that came recently from Russia are more reserved .

Those who came in 2022 are totally cosmopolitan, they despise Russia and Russians and see you as some kind of even worse Russians. Pre 2022 Russians are those who consciously moved to Serbia or visited it for years because they love it. There's a huge group of long ago Russians living in Serbia who monitor those new coming faggots, they can be a destabilizing factor inside your society in near future. For now, I welcome visas between Serbia and Russia until better times. Looking from an average Serbian citizen view, those locusts raised the prices for property rent, so it affected the Serbian citizen's wallet.

If you're interested, that's the group

https://t.me/orly_rs

[Sorab12]

Those who came in 2022 are totally cosmopolitan, they despise Russia and Russians and see you as some kind of even worse Russians. Pre 2022 Russians are those who consciously moved to Serbia or visited it for years because they love it. There's a huge group of long ago Russians living in Serbia who monitor those new coming faggots, they can be a destabilizing factor inside your society in near future. For now, I welcome visas between Serbia and Russia until better times. Looking from an average Serbian citizen view, those locusts raised the prices for property rent, so it affected the Serbian citizen's wallet.

If you're interested, that's the group

https://t.me/orly_rs

Čitao sam davno u jednoj knjizi da su belogardejcu koji su se uglavnom raselili po vaskolikoj evropi činili skoro trećinu predratnog Beograda i daih je bilo oko 33000 hiljade ako se ne varam (mislim naravno na prvi svetski rat)

[Victor]

Čitao sam davno u jednoj knjizi da su belogardejcu koji su se uglavnom raselili po vaskolikoj evropi činili skoro trećinu predratnog Beograda i daih je bilo oko 33000 hiljade ako se ne varam (mislim naravno na prvi svetski rat)

Rodjak mog pradede sahranjen je na Ruskom groblju u Beogradu, bio je u Vojsci Juga Rusije generala Vrangelja, evakuisao se iz Krima u Carigrad i dosao u Beograd kasnije gde je dugo ziveo dok nije umro u 1989. O Rusima koji su doslji u kraljevinu Jugoslavija nakon izgubljenog Gradjanskog rata mogu da pricam satima.

[Dušan]

Čitao sam davno u jednoj knjizi da su belogardejcu koji su se uglavnom raselili po vaskolikoj evropi činili skoro trećinu predratnog Beograda i daih je bilo oko 33000 hiljade ako se ne varam (mislim naravno na prvi svetski rat)

16,500 или око 4% становништва Београда 1937.

https://i.imgur.com/NV0xKPP.png

[Varda]

Well, where would it go? My relatives have property in EU, at Bulgarian Black Sea coast, they're not oligarchs, so if such times wanna come that their property will be confiscated, it means EU got f**ked really bad with a virus of Bolshevism and denial of property rights.

Montenegrin pro-western regime drove away large Russian investors, but did not expel Russians who have a casino, hotel, private house, apartment etc. Iron factory in Nikšić was worked well after it was bought by the Russians in 2002. After the expulsion of the Russians the factory collapsed suddenly.

I mentioned on the other thread that 80-90% products in every market in Montenegro are from Serbia. Even Nikšićko beer is bottled in Apatin. Montenegro is lack of fertile land, industry is very weak, and it is not rich with natural resources. Montenegrin budget is filling up from tourism, criminal activities and donations and credits from the west. Serbia still feeds Montenegro; a lot of students from Montenegro still studying in Serbia (especially in Belgrade); Montenegrin citizens still treated in Belgrade; various Montenegrin musicians and athletes still build careers in Serbia; many Montenegrin citizens still have cousins and members of family which live in Serbia; Serbian Orthodox Church is still by far most dominant religious organization in Montenegro etc. Montenegro could 10 X independent and NATO member, but always will be part of Serbian world.

[Victor]

16,500 или око 4% становништва Београда 1937.

I've seen the graves or whole cemetery areas where Russians who came in this period are buried almost in every town. In Vojvodina a bit more than anywhere else, even somewhere in Kikinda.

[Victor]

Montenegrin pro-western regime drove away large Russian investors, but did not expel Russians who have a casino, hotel, private house, apartment etc. Iron factory in Nikšić was worked well after it was bought by the Russians in 2002. After the expulsion of the Russians the factory collapsed suddenly.

I mentioned on the other thread that 80-90% products in every market in Montenegro are from Serbia. Even Nikšićko beer is bottled in Apatin. Montenegro is lack of fertile land, industry is very weak and it is not rich with natural resources. Montenegrin budget is filling up from tourism, criminal activities and donations and credits from the west. Serbian still feeds Montenegro; a lot of students from Montenegro still studying in Serbia (especially in Belgrade); Montenegrin citizens still treated in Belgrade; various Montenegrin musicians and athletes still build careers in Serbia; many Montenegrin citizens still have cousins and members of family which live in Serbia; Serbian Orthodox Church is still by far most dominant religious organization in Montenegro etc. Montenegro could 10 X independent and NATO member, but always will be part of Serbian world.

I don't like Montenegrins en masse (there are good people everywhere). They smell to me as future prototype Ukrainians towards Serbs. Also I see parallels when fiery and proud Montenegrins (or their children) who consider themselves to be bigger Serbs than "peasants from Serbia" transform into Serbophobes and Monteniggas.

Luckily it does not happen with Bosnian Serbs, because they don't have this pathological pride, they're landed and modest people in majority.

[Varda]

I don't like Montenegrins en masse (there are good people everywhere). They smell to me as future prototype Ukrainians towards Serbs.

Montenegrin anti-Serbian movement is younger than Ukrainian anti-Russian. Currently in Montenegro there is no more than 20% real anti-Serbian Montenegrins. I think there is no time from 'ukrainization' of Montenegro. Since history accelerated and Montenegrin anti-Serbian factor in the last several years has weakened a little. Orthodox litije were everywhere in Montenegro except in Cetinje, Gusinje and Rožaje (in Gusinje and Rožaje majority are Muslims) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019-2020_clerical_protests_in_Montenegro

Scenes from Montenegro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXpOvSv37Kk

From Podgorica.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbOKErpnZ0&t=55s

[Victor]

Montenegrin anti-Serbian movement is younger than Ukrainian anti-Russian. Currently in Montenegro there is no more than 20% real anti-Serbian Montenegrins. I think there is no time from 'ukrainization' of Montenegro. Since history accelerated and Montenegrin anti-Serbian factor in the last several years has weakened a little. Orthodox litije were everywhere in Montenegro except in Cetinje, Gusinje and Rožaje (in Gusinje and Rožaje majority are Muslims) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019-2020_clerical_protests_in_Montenegro

Scenes from Montenegro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXpOvSv37Kk

From Podgorica.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbOKErpnZ0&t=55s

Same was in Ukraine with 100k of faithful ones going to the litije, now most of them went into new schism with their Ukrainian OC which made a canonical crime proclaiming autocephaly in in 2022, now there's no canonical Orthodoxy in Ukraine except for priests and parishioners who personally don't support it. The schismatic metropolitan Onufrije (he was still legal back then) visited Montenegro in solidarity with 2020 litijes by the way, now he's a regular schismatic, just like anyone may become in one night, so I would not trust in people and masses that much (by the way God directly forbids us to trust in people). There are clear tendencies. And maybe (God forbid) one day a Serb from Krusevac will find himself in the trench opposed to the Montenegrin Serb from Podgorica who participated in litije.

[Scarface F]

The only 20 century state which didn't go into deepshit of ideological madness is Spain under Franco. He crushed the Socialist maniacs and overcame anarchy, Spain was one of few out of the WWII (probably it's God's mercy while ideological maniacs were bathing in blood), later he even reinstalled the monarchy and Spanish kingdom literally didn't have any modern ideology or "Greater" Gnostic idea.

All the opponents of Franco were ideological "progressive socialists", left-wing minority nationalists. A Christian monarchy, a tool of order opposed those who wanted a disorder.

Franco style country is also most appealing to me from 20th century "dictators".

[Scarface F]

I know. I just said to Feiichy that Austrians didn't bring Serbs to present day Vojvodina. Serbs in high number settled to present day Vojvodina (in Srem and southern Banat) in the second half of 15th century after the fall of Serbia in 1459. During the Ottoman rule on Vojvodina in 16th and 17th century many Serbs from regions south of Sava and Danube settled there. Finally some Serbs settled in Vojvodina during the Austrian rule, but there was already Serbs in Vojvodina before them who live there for centuries.

Many Serbs fled to Vojvodina after Eugen of Savoy Balkan campaign ended and his troops retreated, fearing Ottoman revenge (as many joined his army to help free Balkans).

[Victor]

Franco style country is also most appealing to me from 20th century "dictators".

He was Conservative, order-loving, pragmatic ruler, he never allowed real ideological fascism which would dominate in society to appear in Spain (he only used them and their rethorics in the very beginning, during the Civil war). It was a country of law, order and moderate tradition in symbiosis with Catholicism, not of no matter what ideology with insane ideas of paradise on Earth through blood.

[Scarface F]

You are result of urban melting pot in Yugoslavian Socialist Republic of Croatia. :) Without Yugoslavia your recent ancestors from various regions and of different ethnicities probably would never meet each other.

All my ancestors were product of Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. My grandmother who was mixed German-Serb-Greek-Hungarian was born before WW2.

[Dušan]

Many Serbs fled to Vojvodina after Eugen of Savoy Balkan campaign ended and his troops retreated, fearing Ottoman revenge (as many joined his army to free Balkans).


Vojvodina was mainly populated by Serbs way earlier.
There were Serb uprising against Ottomans in 16th century in Banat region.


The Uprising in Banat was a rebellion organized and led by Serbian Orthodox bishop Teodor of Vršac and Sava Temišvarac against the Ottomans in the Eyalet of Temeşvar. The uprising broke out in 1594, in the initial stage of the Long Turkish War, and was fought by local Serbs, numbering some 5,000, who managed to quickly take over several towns in the region before being crushed by the Ottoman army. The relics of Saint Sava were burnt by the Ottomans as a retaliation. Although short-lived, it inspired future rebellions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_Banat

[Victor]

All my ancestors were product of Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. My grandmother who is mixed German-Serb-Greek-Hungarian was born before WW2.

My maternal side is also Novorossia region typical case of the Russian Empire.

[Victor]

double

[Scarface F]

Vojvodina was mainly populated by Serbs way earlier.
There were Serb uprising against Ottomans in 16th century in Banat region.


The Uprising in Banat was a rebellion organized and led by Serbian Orthodox bishop Teodor of Vršac and Sava Temišvarac against the Ottomans in the Eyalet of Temeşvar. The uprising broke out in 1594, in the initial stage of the Long Turkish War, and was fought by local Serbs, numbering some 5,000, who managed to quickly take over several towns in the region before being crushed by the Ottoman army. The relics of Saint Sava were burnt by the Ottomans as a retaliation. Although short-lived, it inspired future rebellions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_in_Banat

Yes, true. But Hungarian-speaking genetic Slavs were inhabitants of Vojvodina before the Turks.

We have Ottoman Era Vojvodina samples and they are Rusyn-like genetically. Many Hungarians from nearby have similar genetics. Girlfriend of user Kiel is ethnic Hungarian from near Serbian border and she clusters like Rusyn (she doesn't have recent Slavic ancestors as far as I understood).

Her genetics is exactly like that of pre-Ottoman Vojvodina natives, some of whom were still there by Ottoman era.

[Scarface F]

My maternal side is also Novorossia region typical case of the Russian Empire.

Yes, very similar is sense of that it's also quite mixed. Empires were not some tribal monostates usually indeed.
We are proud children of these Empires :p

[Scarface F]

@Scarface F

'The arrival of Croatians on the Adriatic' is national-romantic painting of Oton Iveković from 1905. There are crusader document from 12th century in which is written than in Dalmatia on the coast live Romance people and Slavs in hinterland. Most of Dalmatian islands were not even inhabited before Ottoman invasion.

According to DAI, Kingdom of Croatia under Tomislav had considerable navy.

Even before Croatian Kingdom, our Princes were known for naval skill and piracy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domagoj_of_Croatia


He took a more active role in the Adriatic Sea than his predecessors, encouraged the use of force and waged many wars, specifically with the Arabs, Venice and the East Francia. Domagoj's belligerence and the tolerance and support of piracy caused bad relations with Pope John VIII, which was further worsened after Domagoj showed no mercy to his conspirators.

[Varda]

According to DAI, Kingdom of Croatia under Tomislav had considerable navy.

Even before Croatian Kingdom, our Princes were known for naval skill and piracy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domagoj_of_Croatia

In DAI there are certain number of things which are not logical. Crusader document from 12th century in which is written than in Dalmatia Romance people live in the coast and Slavs in hinterland posted one Croatian guy one FB group, i will try to find later. In general people from hinterland/continent for centurues migrated to east Adriatic coast, especially after Ottoman invasion but also earlier. Migrations from the coast to hinterland were quite rare. 90% of present day coastal Dalmatians have roots from Dalmatian hinterland or BiH.

[Scarface F]

In DAI there are certain number of things which are not logical. Crusader document from 12th century in which is written than in Dalmatia Romance people live in the coast and Slavs in hinterland posted one Croatian guy one FB group, i will try to find later. In general people from hinterland/continent for centurues migrated to east Adriatic coast, especially after Ottoman invasion but also earlier. Migrations from the coast to hinterland were quite rare. 90% of present day coastal Dalmatians have roots from Dalmatian hinterland or BiH.

Yes but mixing with Romance speakers started very early, and that's how Slavs learned to master the sea. Illyrians were great seamen, Romans too. Coast was culturally Romance/Latin for long, and Slavs who arrived there from hinterland would often Latinize because it was older and superior cultiure.

[Rumata]

Actually there was at least one Germanic person who afaik can well be called a Germanic conquistador of today LatAm - Ambrosius Ehinger.

[Katarzyna]

This thread lines triggers me because 2 weeks ago I met a very handsome Croat. He’s very dark haired and dark skinned and passed better in Greece or Turkey rather than his country. (Nice, I always wanted to have a Catholic Dinaro-Med)

He was quite humble and perfect age but then … I found out he’s a college dropout and lives off disability money. He goes to church every week and seeks comfort there. That’s already the perfect recipe for disaster. Why are there always only this 2 type of Balkan boys? Either they are extremely ambitious or extremely fucked up. There is nothing in between. That’s kinda sad.

[Rumata]

This thread lines triggers me because 2 weeks ago I met a very handsome Croat. He’s very dark haired and dark skinned and passed better in Greece or Turkey rather than his country. (Nice, I always wanted to have a Catholic Dinaro-Med)

He was quite humble and perfect age but then … I found out he’s a college dropout and lives off disability money. He goes to church every week and seeks comfort there. That’s already the perfect recipe for disaster. Why are there always only this 2 type of Balkan boys? Either they are extremely ambitious or extremely fucked up. There is nothing in between. That’s kinda sad.

It seems you got the impression that it's a Balkan chat room here.

[Katarzyna]

It seems you got the impression that it's a Balkan chat room here.

Yes, most of the topics here are bout them xD

[Voskos]

Yes, most of the topics here are bout them xD

Concerning university dropout, it's more common than you think. Universities are becoming more difficult to follow and to finance.

[Laredo]

Concerning university dropout, it's more common than you think. Universities are becoming more difficult to follow and to finance.

Universities are a scam and highly over priced, I mean If you want to study a career absolutely recommend online courses.

[Katarzyna]

Universities are a scam and highly over priced, I mean If you want to study a career absolutely recommend online courses.

I agree, but for many highly payed jobs you need the certificate, unfortunately. So a university degree is still important.

[Laredo]

I agree, but for many highly payed jobs you need the certificate, unfortunately. So a university degree is still important.

I know a website where you can obtain certificates and are valid because they are affiliated directed to those prestige universities keep In mind this website was created for low income people who can't afford to pay a college Institution, I have studied two careers here and thanks to that I've been getting pay more.

I think I mentioned this site to Jana/Feiichy before. You still have to pay for certificates though can range from $100-500 depending what type of course you take etc many IT careers here as well.

https://www.edx.org/
.