Question to Apricians: What does this language sound to you like?

[Avicenna]

https://youtu.be/9D1CaJBlB-o?si=vOwv_BSw6bUFxpAc

[cass]

Mix of Lithuanian and Arab

[Nurzat]

the guest: like speaking a mix of Lithuanian and Russian with a mix of Russian and Arab intonation. the strongest vibe is therefore Eastern European.

the host has more Arab vibe in his way of speaking

[Avicenna]

the guest: like speaking a mix of Lithuanian and Russian with a mix of Russian and Arab intonation. the strongest vibe is therefore Eastern European.

the host has more Arab vibe in his way of speaking

Interesting you've noticed that, judging from the presenters surname he is most likely from the border region in nangarhar ( Mohmand region), so he's speaking the Northeast pashtun dialect whereas the Taliban ( minister of defence ) is from kandahar, he's speaking the southern dialect which is spoken more softer ( "sha" compared to "khwa")

[Avicenna]

Bump

[thisismyaccount]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mua1Cs5K_Ns

The kandahari dialect sounds a lot like this badakhshi language, though it's not the actual ishkashimi language. Its still a language spoken somewhere in south badakhshan, ishkashim district perhaps?

[Avicenna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mua1Cs5K_Ns

The kandahari dialect sounds a lot like this badakhshi language, though it's not the actual ishkashimi language. Its still a language spoken somewhere in south badakhshan, ishkashim district perhaps?

Yeah some resemblance although the ishkashimi language sounds like a Mish mash between Wardaki pashtun + some thick Tajik Dari accent from badakhshan

[thisismyaccount]

Yeah some resemblance although the ishkashimi language sounds like a Mish mash between Wardaki pashtun + some thick Tajik Dari accent from badakhshan

Normal with heavy persian influence in non-persian languages of persian dominated districts and provinces. You hear this persian influence in parachi too, language of shamali, and less so in ormuri of logar province.

[Avicenna]

Normal with heavy persian influence in non-persian languages of persian dominated districts and provinces. You hear this persian influence in parachi too, language of shamali, and less so in ormuri of logar province.

Do Shamali tajiks even know about their eastern iranic paracho roots? The fact that Parachi was very similar to Pashto?

[thisismyaccount]

Do Shamali tajiks even know about their eastern iranic paracho roots? The fact that Parachi was very similar to Pashto?

I think only perhaps kapisa tajiks do, since parachi is still spoken in some villages of Nejrab. But otherwise, no. In panjshir parachi died out like 3 or 4 generations ago. The younger generation isnt aware of parachi. In general where parachi died out generations ago, younger generations just dont know in all of shamal.

Pashayi is still spoken in parts of parwan, though im not sure if the pashayis are native to parwan or that there are persianised pashayis in Parwan, like there are in laghman?

I will say parachi doesnt sound so much like pashto. Neither do geographically close languages like ormuri either.
The example I shown very similiar to pashto.

[tropicalslavic]

Sounds like a cross between Arabic and some mystery Slavic language.

[Kess]

Persian and Arab mix.

[Avicenna]

Funny people saying Arabic, since Pashto is not related to Arabic at all. People are probably noticing the Arabic loan words within the speech.

[Avicenna]

I think only perhaps kapisa tajiks do, since parachi is still spoken in some villages of Nejrab. But otherwise, no. In panjshir parachi died out like 3 or 4 generations ago. The younger generation isnt aware of parachi. In general where parachi died out generations ago, younger generations just dont know in all of shamal.

Pashayi is still spoken in parts of parwan, though im not sure if the pashayis are native to parwan or that there are persianised pashayis in Parwan, like there are in laghman?

I will say parachi doesnt sound so much like pashto. Neither do geographically close languages like ormuri either.
The example I shown very similiar to pashto.

Yeah I saw some Afghan show and the village in nijrab I believe were speaking Parachi. I genuinely think if Shamali tajiks like panjshiris knew their actual roots, they wouldnt be so hostile with pashtuns who are literally their direct brethren .

When I mean pashtuns I mean Afghan pashtuns not pashtunised Indus dards from Pakistan .

[thisismyaccount]

Yeah I saw some Afghan show and the village in nijrab I believe were speaking Parachi. I genuinely think if Shamali tajiks like panjshiris knew their actual roots, they wouldnt be so hostile with pashtuns who are literally their direct brethren .

When I mean pashtuns I mean Afghan pashtuns not pashtunised Indus dards from Pakistan .

The pashtuns in nangarhar are similiar as pashtuns in khyber ancestrially.


I still think they be hostile, just not as arrogant and boastful. They hate taliban because they claim them to be ethnofascists, and also remember the crimes talibs committed in shamal. Theyre also very pro-massoud, who himself was anti-taliban. So it would be the same.

It's however very funny to see shamali tajiks cling onto history of Herat and Samarkand, while many didnt even speak persian 500 years ago. Especially panjsheris who wasn't even recorded to have literate people unlike example Kapisawals, and persianization only really happened first 300 years ago in panjshir.

[Avicenna]

The pashtuns in nangarhar are similiar as pashtuns in khyber ancestrially.


I still think they be hostile, just not as arrogant and boastful. They hate taliban because they claim them to be ethnofascists, and also remember the crimes talibs committed in shamal. Theyre also very pro-massoud, who himself was anti-taliban. So it would be the same.

It's however very funny to see shamali tajiks cling onto history of Herat and Samarkand, while many didnt even speak persian 500 years ago. Especially panjsheris who wasn't even recorded to have literate people unlike example Kapisawals, and persianization only really happened first 300 years ago.

Incorrect, pashtuns from Nangarhar are not all actual pashtuns rather pashtunised local nangarharis with diverse origins.

There are actual pashtuns living in nangarhar, but you are assuming that all nangarharis are pashtuns when in reality the Lingua Franca in nangarhar is pashto, that doesn't necessarily mean they all are ethnically pashtun . How do I know this? My father has connections and lived in jalalabad back in the day and he said that jalalabad is mostly farsi speakers,( I'm not going to say tajiks because we all know they ain't close to tajiks), he said that they all can speak Pashto . The actual pashtun areas of nangarhar is khogyani, shinwari etc Dara E Noor is Pashayis, so the question is, who on earth are these farsi speakers of jalalabad/nangarhar? Don't tell me they are Pashayis because Pashayis are fair skinned, colored eyes etc or atleast they have those traits in abundance . But people from jalalabad can look extremely dark.

There are also a shit ton of jalalabadis /nangarharis who claim they are "Arab" as well.

[thisismyaccount]

Incorrect, pashtuns from Nangarhar are not all actual pashtuns rather pashtunised local nangarharis with diverse origins.

There are actual pashtuns living in nangarhar, but you are assuming that all nangarharis are pashtuns when in reality the Lingua Franca in nangarhar is pashto, that doesn't necessarily mean they all are ethnically pashtun . How do I know this? My father has connections and lived in jalalabad back in the day and he said that jalalabad is mostly farsi speakers,( I'm not going to say tajiks because we all know they ain't close to tajiks), he said that they all can speak Pashto . The actual pashtun areas of nangarhar is khogyani, shinwari etc Dara E Noor is Pashayis, so the question is, who on earth are these farsi speakers of jalalabad/nangarhar? Don't tell me they are Pashayis because Pashayis are fair skinned, colored eyes etc or atleast they have those traits in abundance . But people from jalalabad can look extremely dark.

There are also a shit ton of jalalabadis /nangarharis who claim they are "Arab" as well.

im aware some are just pashtunised dards, but I do think like pashtuns in khyber, most pashtuns in nangarhar are paternally partially pashtun and maternally partially dardic. Khyber pashtuns typically get iranic haplogroups.


I think your dad might had come across the sayyeds and "Arabs"? Yeah, there are people in and near Jalalabad claiming to be ethnic Arabs, though they dont speak arabic. Perhaps used to, but I do assume they can speak persian? But the Arabs are mainly in Bihsud district, but I still think some of them are in Jalalabad? We even got some hazaras there too, but your dad obviously didnt mean them.


But your dad probably did encounter the actual natives of Jalalabad who got persianised? I think one can consider them tajiks then, similiar to persianised pashayis in laghman. They probably look this dark, because theyre the natives, and pashayis are possibly from the mountains? I dont know, but I do find this interesting. Did he go all over Jalalabad?

[Avicenna]

im aware some are just persianised dards, but I do think like pashtuns in khyber, most pashtuns in nangarhar are paternally partially pashtun and maternally partially dardic. Khyber pashtuns typically get iranic haplogroups.


I think your dad might had come across the sayyeds and "Arabs"? Yeah, there are people in and near Jalalabad claiming to be ethnic Arabs, though they dont speak arabic. Perhaps used to, but I do assume they can speak persian? But the Arabs are mainly in Bihsud district, but I still think some of them are in Jalalabad? We even got some hazaras there too, but your dad obviously didnt mean them.


But your dad probably did encounter the actual natives of Jalalabad who got persianised? I think one can consider them tajiks then, similiar to persianised pashayis in laghman. They probably look this dark, because theyre the natives, and pashayis are possibly from the mountains? I dont know, but I do find this interesting. Did he go all over Jalalabad?

I'm not basing this off my father's experience lol, the ones that look dark are mainly non blood related relatives of mine through marriage ( uncles family), some of them look regular Afghan, some are very light whilst others genuinely look Indian. And I don't mean dark pashtun Indian looking where it's just anthrotards being anthrotards, but actual Indian / Pakistani looking, if I saw them on the street I would literally assume their name was Rahul or Karan. You get me? Btw they are not pashtun, they speak farsi but in a very strong jalalabadi accent

My cousin's from my father's side however are half jalalabadi, and they look regular / light Afghans, with blue eyes green eyes brown hair, their jalalabadi side also looked regular Afghan . So it's interesting since Alot of Diaspora Afghans are intact from Nangarhar( ones in Pakistan are almost all from Nangarhar, ones in the UK, Alot of them are from Nangarhar due to torkham being right next to the province and Alot of refugees found it very easy to get out).

I'm mainly talking about the nangarharis that look Indian, but they don't look pashtun, tajik, nor dardic ( Pashayi or some other kind of Afghan dards who look similar to nuristanis / Pashayis )

[thisismyaccount]

I'm not basing this off my father's experience lol, the ones that look dark are mainly non blood related relatives of mine through marriage ( uncles family), some of them look regular Afghan, some are very light whilst others genuinely look Indian. And I don't mean dark pashtun Indian looking where it's just anthrotards being anthrotards, but actual Indian / Pakistani looking, if I saw them on the street I would literally assume their name was Rahul or Karan. You get me? Btw they are not pashtun, they speak farsi but in a very strong jalalabadi accent

My cousin's from my father's side however are half jalalabadi, and they look regular / light Afghans, with blue eyes green eyes brown hair, their jalalabadi side also looked regular Afghan . So it's interesting since Alot of Diaspora Afghans are intact from Nangarhar( ones in Pakistan are almost all from Nangarhar, ones in the UK, Alot of them are from Nangarhar due to torkham being right next to the province and Alot of refugees found it very easy to get out).

I'm mainly talking about the nangarharis that look Indian, but they don't look pashtun, tajik, nor dardic ( Pashayi or some other kind of Afghan dards who look similar to nuristanis / Pashayis )


I was way more interested in the fact that your dad said they were parsiwans who adopted pashto. Did he move all over Jalalabad? This is new to me, the only persian speakers I thought were there was bukharan refugees, some hazaras and perhaps "ethnic Arabs" too. I didnt knew most to all of the city was persians.

[Avicenna]

I was way more interested in the fact that your dad said they were parsiwans who adopted pashto. Did he move all over Jalalabad? This is new to me, the only persian speakers I thought were there was bukharan refugees, some hazaras and perhaps "ethnic Arabs" too. I didnt knew most to all of the city was persians.

I think you are confusing actual Persians with people who just adopted farsi and spoke it. From what I've seen the only thing about them being Persian is the language, rather their culture , demenour and almost everything else is like their surrounding neighbours.

People all over Nangarhar can understand and speak Pashto, I don't think that's adopting it, it's just the Lingua Franca like Dari is

[thisismyaccount]

I think you are confusing actual Persians with people who just adopted farsi and spoke it. From what I've seen the only thing about them being Persian is the language, rather their culture , demenour and almost everything else is like their surrounding neighbours.

People all over Nangarhar can understand and speak Pashto, I don't think that's adopting it, it's just the Lingua Franca like Dari is

Persian= speaks persian as your native language

Otherwise tajiks in panjshir and many rural in badakhshan arent tajiks, who only started to speak persian 300-100 years ago.

If the people in Jalalabad prioritize parsi over pashto, then they are parsiwans. I do get curious though, how does your father know that? When I look at this district info, most of Jalalabad are identified as pashtuns? Did he really move all over Jalalabad?


https://web.archive.org/web/20051027185227/http://www.aims.org.af:80/afg/dist_profiles/unhcr_district_profiles/eastern/nangarhar/jalalabad.pdf

[Avicenna]

Persian= speaks persian as your native language

Otherwise tajiks in panjshir and many rural in badakhshan arent tajiks, who only started to speak persian 300-100 years ago.

If the people in Jalalabad prioritize parsi over pashto, then they are parsiwans. I do get curious though, how does your father know that? When I look at this district info, most of Jalalabad are identified as pashtuns? Did he really move all over Jalalabad?


https://web.archive.org/web/20051027185227/http://www.aims.org.af:80/afg/dist_profiles/unhcr_district_profiles/eastern/nangarhar/jalalabad.pdf

Yeah but by Tajik we mean panjshiris, Badakshis, Parwan, Kapisa etc who all share very similar looks, dialect, accent and culture.

Keep in mind my father was telling stories from back in the 70's and 80's. I also don't know how accurate this information is but there are alot of farsi speakers in nangarhar m

[thisismyaccount]

Yeah but by Tajik we mean panjshiris, Badakshis, Parwan, Kapisa etc who all share very similar looks, dialect, accent and culture.

Keep in mind my father was telling stories from back in the 70's and 80's. I also don't know how accurate this information is but there are alot of farsi speakers in nangarhar m

Are you sure your dad just wasnt in a neighbourhood filled with tajiks?

[Avicenna]

Are you sure your dad just wasnt in a neighbourhood filled with tajiks?
No, even I know this that jalalabad aren't all pashtuns, there's Alot of farsi speakers . For instance people from behsud are all farsi speakers

[thisismyaccount]

No, even I know this that jalalabad aren't all pashtuns, there's Alot of farsi speakers . For instance people from behsud are all farsi speakers

How you exactly know? You been all over Jalalabad and behsud? You asked people? Did people tell you guys that?

[tropicalslavic]

It may be due to confirmation bias. Maybe our brains are filling in information we aren't sure about with "Arabic" because of how the people are dressed and the script used. If it was just a voice clip maybe so many of us wouldn't be saying it reminds us of Arabic.

[Avicenna]

How you exactly know? You been all over Jalalabad and behsud? You asked people? Did people tell you guys that?

Why are you always so defensive ? My relatives ( non blood related ) are from behsud ( the ones I spoke about). Ask anyone who actually has a clue about mashriqis and they will tell you the same thing. My father also studied in Jalalabad university and his brother is currently living there as we speak. So I think I know a tad more than you..no?

[thisismyaccount]

Why are you always so defensive ? My relatives ( non blood related ) are from behsud ( the ones I spoke about). Ask anyone who actually has a clue about mashriqis and they will tell you the same thing. My father also studied in Jalalabad university and his brother is currently living there as we speak. So I think I know a tad more than you..no?

I would be defensive if I said you were wrong.

Im really just wondering how you exactly know this? The district info link of Jalalabad I posted before had 85%+ people listed as pashtuns. This is the first time I hear most of Jalalabad being parsiwans? They just know most of Jalalabad is parsiwan?

[Avicenna]

I would be defensive if I said you were wrong.

Im really just wondering how you exactly know this? The district info link of Jalalabad I posted before had 85%+ people listed as pashtuns. This is the first time I hear most of Jalalabad being parsiwans? They just know most of Jalalabad is parsiwan?
Why are you saying parsiwan? It's Farsiwan bro .

Secondly , I'm just conveying what my father said, and no, he's not a ethnic nationalist on either side, he just said it and even I was surprised . Keep in mind, Alot of native jalalabadis aren't actually living in jalalabad anymore, alot of them have moved to the west especially UK. Alot of my dad's friends are from Nangarhar, and to be honest, now that I remember the ones I know of, they are "Arabs" and speak farsi, but they also know Pashto fluently . Regarding his other friends I haven't met them nor know them , ofcourse there are pashtuns from.nangarhar like shinwaris, khogyanis etc

[thisismyaccount]

Why are you saying parsiwan? It's Farsiwan bro .

Secondly , I'm just conveying what my father said, and no, he's not a ethnic nationalist on either side, he just said it and even I was surprised . Keep in mind, Alot of native jalalabadis aren't actually living in jalalabad anymore, alot of them have moved to the west especially UK. Alot of my dad's friends are from Nangarhar, and to be honest, now that I remember the ones I know of, they are "Arabs" and speak farsi, but they also know Pashto fluently . Regarding his other friends I haven't met them nor know them , ofcourse there are pashtuns from.nangarhar like shinwaris, khogyanis etc

Im just writing it without the arabic influence.


Them being "ethnic Arabs" makes sense they speak persian. If the city was mostly inhabitated by Arabs, it makes sense then. Some of course end up being tajiks.
Still interesting how info on Jalalabad shows its 85% pashtun, while even Behsud is 50% Arab and tajik.


Arabs dont look different to pashtuns though?

[Babak]

I think you are confusing actual Persians with people who just adopted farsi and spoke it. From what I've seen the only thing about them being Persian is the language, rather their culture , demenour and almost everything else is like their surrounding neighbours.

People all over Nangarhar can understand and speak Pashto, I don't think that's adopting it, it's just the Lingua Franca like Dari is

Yea a lot of tajiks seem to be persian speaking pashtuns tbh with the exception of shia tajiks.

[Voskos]

Sounds like Persian

[thisismyaccount]

Yea a lot of tajiks seem to be persian speaking pashtuns tbh with the exception of shia tajiks.

I think this mainly goes for parsiwans in Herat and Kabul cities. How you know one though?

[Avicenna]

Sounds like Persian

Really? I speak Persian and it's more like a Slavic language + Persian like language.

[Babak]

I think this mainly goes for parsiwans in Herat and Kabul cities. How you know one though?

Herati accent sounds like Iranian persian. I think they are persians from iran with afghan influence

[Voskos]

Really? I speak Persian and it's more like a Slavic language + Persian like language.

Maybe, but I really needed to concentrate to see the slavic after you insisted, mostly in the intonation. The Persian is dominant. I don't speak either by the way, but I've heard both slavic and persian speakers.

[thisismyaccount]

Herati accent sounds like Iranian persian. I think they are persians from iran with afghan influence


Most persianised pashtuns are either from Herat or Kabul. Those are persian cities with most pashtun presence historically, especially kabul. Rest outside has far less persianised pashtuns.

If these people you suspect to be pashtuns isnt from there, the chances of those being pashtuns and simply not tajiks are less likely.

[thisismyaccount]

Really? I speak Persian and it's more like a Slavic language + Persian like language.

I honestly dont think that. I dont think pashto sounds persian enough to even have persian described for pashto.

Slavic + persian would sound more like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOe7rcv-XKo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgyrXO4Kt1c&t=1s


I do hear pashto has some similarities with persian, just not enough for that though

[thatoneton]

the guest: like speaking a mix of Lithuanian and Russian with a mix of Russian and Arab intonation. the strongest vibe is therefore Eastern European.

the host has more Arab vibe in his way of speaking

True, I would guess the host is speaking Arabic or something related, and the Taliban Guy(™) sounds as if he's speaking some Russian mixed with some other (I would guess Caucasian or something if I didn't see them). Though something very hard to discern, so I would think just as well of Iranian.

[Pashtunpapi]

Just want to share my 0.2 cents .. I’m from Paktia and my father inlaw is from Laghman Pashtun Hotak tribe and mother in-law is from Kunar Safi tribe. Kunar side of the family look either Nuristani with blondism or straight south Asian looking in phenotype. Father inlaw side looks either regular Pashtun or very south Asian.

Also have a lot of friends and far relatives married into the family that are from Jalalabad, most are Tajik or Arab if you really question them about their roots.

Some of the most western looking Afghans I’ve seen were from Nagrahar and also the darkest.

As for Omuri language Waziri, Zadran Pashto has a lot of similarities in accent and shared words that’s unique to the two…

[Avicenna]

Just want to share my 0.2 cents .. I’m from Paktia and my father inlaw is from Laghman Pashtun Hotak tribe and mother in-law is from Kunar Safi tribe. Kunar side of the family look either Nuristani with blondism or straight south Asian looking in phenotype. Father inlaw side looks either regular Pashtun or very south Asian.

Also have a lot of friends and far relatives married into the family that are from Jalalabad, most are Tajik or Arab if you really question them about their roots.

Some of the most western looking Afghans I’ve seen were from Nagrahar and also the darkest.

As for Omuri language Waziri, Zadran Pashto has a lot of similarities in accent and shared words that’s unique to the two…
Hahah nice one bro.

Yeah nangarharis are weird man, you get one that looks straight up central euro and the other one looks straight up from Lahore. Strange .

You mind posting some of your male relatives just to see the stark difference?