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Skandi
04-17-2009, 04:45 PM
I was reading the post below and wondered; what are your opinions on lying? Is it okay to dissemble? If so when is it correct to do so.

On a more personal note, do you do it? Are you any good at it!



The eight requirements for being a good liar:
1. A superior, or at least decent, memory - to continue the charade you need to recall exactly what you have previously lied about! If you feel you have a weak memory, avoid contact with those you will likely have to lie to.

2. A good instinct about the plausability of paticular lies. If your working in an extremely PC office in New York and you went to a WN camp over the weekend, be prepared to give an alternate explanation for your activities. Here is one trick: pick a hobby that you know no one in your office would know a thing about. If you're in an office full of computer nerds, for example, suggest you were engaged in very active physical exercise over the weekend (as long as your physical appearance does not automatically exlude the possibility!). Read up for half an hour on the topic and you should be able to answer any colleague questions on the 'hobby' that you claim consumes most of your free time.

3. Similarly if you are really made sick in the presence of negroids and so forth but need to hide the fact in order to prosper, consider this technique. Desensitise yourself to their culture and history by reading as much as possible about it written from a purely academic viewpoint. Then, when necessary, you can show interest in their people. Consider it a game. Ask intelligent questions about their people. They will be pleased to have such an intellectual homie among them! Swotting up on the facts of their trashy culture will prevent many awkward silences!

4. If you are highly intelligent, as a large number of posters on this board clearly are, it might be appropriate to be 'carefully careless,' act a little stupid at times. Why? Because the more direct instincts of the mud races will tell them that it is completely obvious that a highly intelligent Aryan, in body and mind, simply cannot believe in miscegenation and other PC preferences. They will sense your deception. A simple way to convey lower IQ is to consistently mispronounce words. Additionally, walk away from arguments where possible. (If I win an argument in a black office by proving the truth of higher crime rates among blacks, how do I really win? They will either find some way to fire me, or do their absolute best to make my life miserable.)

5. Like Machiavelli said, be a fox that you might sense traps. Understand that very few whites are in any serious way loyal to their race. Sometimes a rightwing comment will be made just to test you. Be careful in taking that bait. We work to make money, don't solicit for WN comrades at your workplace. If an alliance develops, all well and good, but don't actively seek it. You're just as likely to lose your job. Further to this, don't be obvious in your preference for the company of white colleagues.

6. Learn to know your own tell-tale signs of lying, which are basically the same as those for general stress. In particular, wear dark glasses to hide alterations in pupil size where possible. (People who are dark-eyed or wear glasses that minimise the apparent size of the eyes are already at some advantage, these obscure changes in pupil size.) If you sweat a lot under stress, make sure you always cake on the deodorant! If you are the type that blushes strongly, be careful! Make sure you're as relaxed as possible. Perhaps smack your face in the toilets so that you already are 'blushing' before you have to verbalise a lie. Also, if you know you have to lie, it can be best to feign a temporary nervous condition, thus any shaking or jitters will be continuous throughout the day. Thus people will not be able to pinpont a time when, there!, he started getting nervous, he must have been lying.

7. Avoid being drunk around those you cannot be completetely honest with, 'in vino et Veritas' (in wine is truth)!

8. Now for the philosophical part! The biggest reason people fail in lying is vanity. Yes, vanity! The telling of a lie is a disgusting act and goes against every instict of a noble, proud being! Vanity is natural to a proud soul. Vanity, in the sense I mean it, is that desire every person has to see his/her name and true characters known in the hearts of other men. The instinct to honesty is nothing more than the spiritual equivalent of the desire for procreation. Even those things not so great about us, we do want to exist in the hearts of other men. This is what is referred to in the sentiment that 'confession is good for the soul.' Likewise, we still want to procreate those genes in ourselves that are probably something less than perfection. We want the aspects of ourselves that are good as well as those that are not so good to live beyond us. This is the closest we may come toward immortality, some of us living in the hearts and memories of other people and some of us continuing in our children's bodies as they march toward the future. Thus telling lies and keeping secrets are among the hardest things to do, when there is no end in sight.

The perfect liar would overcome all of this natural vanity. Like the builders of some exquisite Gothic Cathedral who left their genius without signature, their identities anonymous, a selfless testament to their faith, the perfect liar's true image would not exist in the hearts of men. He walks this path unheralded, a ghost,a Karma Yogi, working without hope of reward . . . a Lone Wolf deep behind enemy lines. He is the proud being that has overcome his pride. He is not a Jew, not a liar from the womb. He has learned that sometimes it is best to pick one's battles.


I believe the best example of the noble liar is Shakespeare's Hamlet. While I don't recommend actually acting insane, wearing the mantle of the eccentric and/or shy guy will allow colleagues to explain-away any minor imperfection in your deception strategy as being 'just him/her.'

Loki
04-17-2009, 06:17 PM
I despise liars, and usually catch them out. When I have found out someone lying to me, it means an immediately loss of respect from my side.

As for lying to non-personal organisations, etc ... that's another matter. I.e. lying to creditors chasing you for money. :D

Bloodeagle
04-17-2009, 06:36 PM
I despise liars, and usually catch them out. When I have found out someone lying to me, it means an immediately loss of respect from my side.

As for lying to non-personal organisations, etc ... that's another matter. I.e. lying to creditors chasing you for money. :D

I agree with Loki.
I personally and will usually, only lie to those who pose a threat to mine or mine others well being. E.G. Government employees and other snakes in the grass.

There is nothing that is more disheartening than to have someone you trust lie to you.

That is why I do not generally mix business with pleasure. I like to keep my working relationships at work and my personal beliefs for those that I can trust.

Tabiti
04-17-2009, 07:29 PM
I think everyone lyes sometimes to save her/himself from something unpleasant. Being humans we are not perfect enough to show our weakness by telling only the truth.
I've always feel who is lying me and why. However, not all people make it with bad purpose - some have personal problems and this is a way for them to live in an imaginery perfect world, which they create (or try to create) in the eyes of listener. I usually avoid them, because feeling stupid when someone tries to deceive me in such primitive way.

Lying the state, banks and so on is absolutely different matter - "An eye for an eye"!

Vargtand
04-17-2009, 07:32 PM
I try to lie as little as possible. Usually I end up lying to spare someone’s their feelings hurt but I can't remember the last time I lied... especially not out of self interest and self-gain, of course I am but a person on the internet so there is no way you can take my word for it but I solemnly swear I do not enhance my self with lies or things such as socks..

Psychonaut
04-17-2009, 08:16 PM
Absolute honesty is neither a desirable nor a tenable position to hold. For those of you who have children, could you honestly (;)) say that you've never lied to them in order to spare their feelings? At a certain point in a child's development, it's much more important to foster their creativity and confidence than it is to be 100% honest with them.

Alternatively, for those of you who have served in the military, would you have lied to your captors in the event you were captured and interrogated? I would imagine so. In that case lying is not only acceptable but commendable. The same situation would hold true in dealing with anyone who is obviously a criminal. Would you tell a murderer where your family was hiding, or would you lie to him?

In certain situations honesty is among the most commendable of virtues, but in other situations, deception and subterfuge are the morally correct choices.

Jägerstaffel
04-18-2009, 12:30 AM
I thought this thread was titled 'Opinions on Lyfing' - so I came to post he is a good guy.

As for lying, it holds human communities together and I think it's necessary sometimes. No one wants to hear the truth all the time.

Atlas
04-18-2009, 12:36 AM
I agree with Loki, I dislike liars wether they are men or women, this is really people who takes us for mugs and should really be shot in the worst occasions.

Beorn
04-18-2009, 12:43 AM
For those of you who have children, could you honestly (;)) say that you've never lied to them in order to spare their feelings?

I can't comment on the original point as every point my child has raised about her blooming awareness has been replied by an honest fatherly response, but I am an insanely sick individual when I need to be.

Ceallach and I have concocted a great way to control our eldest child into eating food otherwise abandoned; getting to bed, or generally responding in the manner we hope for by instilling a great trust in the Police.

The Police are the people to trust in her eyes and she knows they have the authority to punish bad people and reward and protect the good people.

So, bearing in mind she thinks bad people get taken away by the Police, everytime she does something naughty, one of us knocks on a door, or a table out of her sight to emulate the sound of a Policeman at the door.

You will never see a child do anything quicker when they think there is a Policeman waiting out the front. :D


If that is considered "lying", then I am guilty as charged. Otherwise I only tell the odd porky here and there and the occasional white lie to cover a track or two.

Persistent liars and deceivers are terrible individuals and tend to get a few chances from me before I shun them completely.

Absinthe
04-18-2009, 10:48 AM
Lying, deceit, manipulation and flattery/brown nosing are essential features of the mediterranean culture, and it is one more reason that I dislike it.

I remember in College one of our professors was trying to explain Freud's ego-defense mechanisms, and she discarded at least have of them as "too common in our culture to be considered as such". :rolleyes:

Brynhild
04-18-2009, 11:32 AM
Absolute honesty is neither a desirable nor a tenable position to hold. For those of you who have children, could you honestly (;)) say that you've never lied to them in order to spare their feelings? At a certain point in a child's development, it's much more important to foster their creativity and confidence than it is to be 100% honest with them.

Unfortunately, broken promises count as a lie in your child's eyes, and I have learned not to make the ones I can't keep. Your original intentions may be honourable, but unforeseen circumstances force you to change your mind. Other times I will keep my mouth shut with my kids is when I know they won't like what they have heard about someone they love dearly, f e. They would be told at a later date that I deem to be appropriate. I refuse to force my kids into growing up by revealing matters that they wouldn't be ready for, or understand completely - and worse still - cause any irreparable damage by doing so! Having kids can be like walking on eggshells sometimes, and complete honesty can backfire on you.


I can't comment on the original point as every point my child has raised about her blooming awareness has been replied by an honest fatherly response, but I am an insanely sick individual when I need to be.

Ceallach and I have concocted a great way to control our eldest child into eating food otherwise abandoned; getting to bed, or generally responding in the manner we hope for by instilling a great trust in the Police.

The Police are the people to trust in her eyes and she knows they have the authority to punish bad people and reward and protect the good people.

So, bearing in mind she thinks bad people get taken away by the Police, everytime she does something naughty, one of us knocks on a door, or a table out of her sight to emulate the sound of a Policeman at the door.

You will never see a child do anything quicker when they think there is a Policeman waiting out the front. :D


If that is considered "lying", then I am guilty as charged. Otherwise I only tell the odd porky here and there and the occasional white lie to cover a track or two.

Persistent liars and deceivers are terrible individuals and tend to get a few chances from me before I shun them completely.

I've been lied to on more than one occasion by the cops, and I would never adhere to that method of childrearing. Maybe I'm just a softie that way with my kids.

I am, on the whole, very honest, because I know that there would be a karmic kickback - by guilt! I don't do cash jobs (I had done when I was just doing some local ironing while staying at home and the like), any more. I declare everything because I don't want to be audited. My friends and acquaintances know where they stand with me. I also like to watch the subtle nuances of expression and body language and I don't take kindly to deliberate forms of lying for personal gain. People who carry on in such a fashion aren't to be trusted once I've seen that in them - I tend to wipe them without compunction.

SwordoftheVistula
04-18-2009, 12:46 PM
I think it's generally wrong, but acceptable in certain circumstances, to protect yourself against unreasonable circumstances against those that would do you harm.

For example, I always tell bums who ask me for money that I don't have any. If I was to speak my real mind, "yes, I have a dollar, but I'm not going to give it to your sorry ass to buy crack" that could lead to an altercation with someone who has no fear of going to jail and probably is high as well.

Another example, I will fudge my personal info online, especially on nationalist/preservationist websites. For example, I am was not actually born on April 20 1979, but close enough that this date accurately represents my age. If I was to claim to be some years or more or less than my actual age, then I would consider this unacceptable lying. Also along these lines, if I live in a small town/suburb I will tell people I live in the nearest larger city. Especially if talking to people from other parts of the country or foreign countries, I will tell them the name of the nearest city I think they have actually heard of-for example, I currently live in western Massachusetts, a couple hours away from both Boston and New York City, but if talking to someone from a foreign country I will always give one of these cities out as my location simply because they will have heard of those cities, but not the one I live in.

Usually being vague is good enough, in the example in the OP, I would simply say I "went camping with friends" rather than construct an entire fake hobby.

People that make up lies for personal advancement, or to avoid taking responsibility for the problems they cause, piss me off.

I also think it is dishonest to not do certain things which are expected of you. For example, if 2 people are in a relationship, especially to the point of living with one another, then there is generally an expectation that neither partner seek out romantic relationships with another, so I would consider this 'dishonest' if one person seeks out relationships with other people without telling their partner. For another example, if you are an employee you are generally expected to be doing work on behalf of your employer when 'on the clock', so I consider it dishonest when employees are 'on the clock' and goofing off when there is work to be done.

lei.talk
04-23-2009, 05:01 AM
I think it's generally wrong, but acceptable in certain circumstances, to protect yourself against unreasonable circumstances against those that would do you harm.

I also think it is dishonest to not do certain things which are expected of you.the initiation of force or fraud
short-circuits the uniquely human capacity of rationality

and violators of the social contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract)
should not be surprised
to receive similarly disrespect-full treatment.

Absolute honesty is neither a desirable nor a tenable position to hold.

...your captors...
...a criminal...
...a murderer...

In certain situations honesty is among the most commendable of virtues, but in other situations, deception and subterfuge are the morally correct choices.

Solwyn
04-23-2009, 04:12 PM
I try my best not to make statements or promises to my son that I can not make good on, because children take these things to heart. Beyond that, although I don't tell fishing tales, for my students I will try to point things out rather than saying something stinks, "......no, no, I like the fact that you aren't afraid to use colour in eyeshadow, but why did you feel it necessary to use eight different colours on her tiny little face?"

If I am having a bad day, you are annoying me, or I just plain don't like you, then there is a good chance that you will hear, "You know, you're right. That skirt really does make your ass look big. Go home and change."

Baron Samedi
04-23-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm all for it when needed.

Odin was the master of deception. It is innate in some of us to be the same as well, for both mundane and esoteric reasons.

Lulletje Rozewater
04-25-2009, 04:13 PM
Lying is an everyday event in Nature
We call it non verbal Camouflage.
I have no problem with it as it is part of our survival kit.
The average person's word knowledge is about 10 to 15000,but non-verbal expressions are 700.000.
Look at the non-verbal expressions involved with the words uttered.
Example 1:"I love you........"now how often have you heard this and the person saying it shakes her/his head from left to right(negative) i.s.o. up and down(positive).
We are suckers for words and words are" expressions" not based on facts.
Example 2: I am sitting on a chair........what chair???? heck, a Koi-San chair is a stone

Csongi
10-02-2009, 06:22 AM
I love children who are smoothly able to lying....They have a better inside reality then what is happening around really them self.....As well as they are more intelligent then the primitive humans next to them many of the times......



I'm talking about intelligent positive really happy children not any crimminals and unintelligent and rural person.....




Csongi

Svarog
10-02-2009, 09:09 AM
Depends, damn, I do wish people lied to me several times in the past instead of telling the truth, sometimes, truth can be selfish, tho, in generally, i don't like it, sure i lie, not very good tho or very often but i pick my lies and pick my moments, sometimes because i cannot deal with telling the truth sometimes cause i do think it is better truth not to be told, and the saying, you can't go wrong with the truth - wrong. Myself, i hate liars and manipulators, it is kind of connected, but also a characteristic of the modern society so, damn, i just adjust to it as i did with political correctness, racial equality and harmony, globalism and corporatism, boy gotta get used to it heh

Cato
10-02-2009, 02:19 PM
I'm all for it when needed.

Odin was the master of deception. It is innate in some of us to be the same as well, for both mundane and esoteric reasons.

Your post parallel my own. Odin lied as a matter of course, in most cases for beneficial purposes but also for his own amusement at times, too. Lying for one's amusement should never be done, but lying to some wretched individual that you despise, well...

Lat week at work this fat bitchy manager was ranting to me about something that, supposedly, I did wrong. I've got no idea what, but it had something to do with the fact that I took my fifteen minute break [as required by New York State labor law] at a time the fat pig didn't like or somesuch. She didn't really register in my mind (since I basically despise her anyway for being pushy and ill-tempered), so I just lied and told her I wouldn't do it again or that I'd take my break at the appropriate time blah blah blah.

The next day, I just took my break at the same time.

I've found out that, for the most part, the managers where I work just want yes men. They call it "compliance" but they really just want yes men. So, I've lied to management many a time when some suited dipshit tries to have a petty power trip on me. I guess my sense of self is too high or somesuch and, if I reacted the way I wanted to react (nastily and verbally), I'd be out of a job. So, the only form of real retaliation is deception and/or wilfull ignoring of the stuff you're told to do (which can come off as commands at times; I don't like being commanded about like a dog). Of course, I've treated customers the same way too when they've affected that kind of behavior on me. :)

Corporatism is one thing that I despise, and I've experienced a great deal of talk-down-the-nose treatment at the hands of stuffed shirts. However, there are some managers that I respect, and I'll happily cooperate with them.

Äike
10-02-2009, 02:35 PM
I'm a honest, straightforward person and a lousy liar, thus I lie rarely. Sadly, lying is a large part of the modern society and I am a bad liar. My straightforwardness has brought me trouble on several occasions.

Cato
10-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Deception and bluffing form a part of military strategy and tactics. When a general "lies" he's called a good officer or, when a policeman uses deception to gain information from a subject, he's also following established procedure. Yet there's this expectation that people need to be consistently honest in all situations, which I find to be unworkable and troublesome for one's well-being (that is, when the truth "hurts" or when a passive truth will get one treated like a doormat). Citing some examples from the thread, I can tell you that I've lied to panhandlers and other unsavory sorts (like that fat she-hog managers I mentioned above).

safinator
02-25-2012, 07:31 PM
I actually work very hard not to lie, even about little things (being silent works very well at times). I learned long ago that it comes back and bites you. I am truthful and manage to do so mostly without being cruel and even if it's at my own expense.