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View Full Version : Dmitry of Pereslavl on G25


axlredneck
12-10-2023, 07:14 AM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/%D0%A4%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D1%81_%D0%B8 %D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D 0%B8%D0%BC_%D0%BA%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8F_%D0%94%D 0%BC%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1 %80%D0%B5%D1%8F%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%B A%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE.png

NEV2, Dmitry of Pereslavl

Y-DNA: N-VL11 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-VL11/)
mtDNA: F1b1-a3a2a (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/F1b1-a3a2a/)
House: Rurik
Age: 1250 - 1294 CE


Dmitry Alexandrovich was Grand Prince of Vladimir from 1276 to 1281, and again from 1283 until 1293.
axlredneck
12-10-2023, 07:16 AM
https://i.ibb.co/fC9K0gW/IMG-20231206-202056.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ccBf6sb/IMG-20231206-202123.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/fYKnRDv/IMG-20231206-202110.jpg
axlredneck
12-10-2023, 07:19 AM
NEV2_scaled,0.104717,0.016248,0.035449,0.015504,-0.010156,0.000558,0.00376,0,-0.02168,-0.015672,-0.007632,0.003597,-0.006095,-0.005643,0.003122,-0.00305,-0.002217,-0.003041,-0.004777,0.005503,-0.005989,0.002597,0.000493,0.00253,-0.00455
Slavic,0.1263056,0.1348622,0.0641505,0.042625,0.04 27633,0.0123846,0.00817,0.0098513,-0.007088,-0.0217559,-0.0037228,-0.0066559,0.0063517,0.0130343,-0.0033658,-0.007109,-0.0021777,0.0017092,-0.0013558,-0.0015496,-0.0118889,-0.0024456,0.0078161,0.0014478,-0.005169
Caucasus,0.110891,0.1358829,-0.0538429,-0.0494267,-0.0347303,-0.0095936,0.0108708,-0.0044866,-0.0615938,-0.0181236,0.0009251,0.0140366,-0.0285725,0.0059497,0.0010473,-0.0262893,0.0091047,-0.0047652,-0.0096984,0.0169349,0.0123275,0.0039481,-0.0020224,-0.0083666,-0.0024377
Turkic,0.090426408,-0.107749192,0.068184753,0.03611978,-0.024116219,-8.94163E-05,-0.002263078,-0.002645529,-0.007946147,-0.01126712,-0.014166992,0.003288691,-0.00051852,-0.021323464,0.007532963,0.011351976,-0.008244484,-0.00454969,-0.003911155,0.00303536,-0.012697807,0.004452845,-0.001908573,0.008864012,-0.005354996
https://i.ibb.co/HY9v1gq/IMG-20231206-080514.png
Leto
12-10-2023, 10:50 AM
I've seen his results before. His non-Russian components are massive. Some have concluded that the Rurikids weren't of Scandinavian descent because the Y DNA isn't Scandinavian. What do you think?
axlredneck
12-11-2023, 10:02 AM
I've seen his results before. His non-Russian components are massive. Some have concluded that the Rurikids weren't of Scandinavian descent because the Y DNA isn't Scandinavian. What do you think?

N-L550 may originally have been a Finnic Y-lineage, but its ancient and modern distribution has nothing to do with Finns. It's expanded mostly via their neighbors, viz., Scandinavians and Balto-Slavs.
The overwhelming majority of hapogroup N in Scandinavians falls under N-L550, AFAIK.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSttHe0SZeOKits2cQdf7jqoDzX0pEDP ymkpA&usqp=CAU
axlredneck
12-11-2023, 10:03 AM
https://i.ibb.co/TL6y1Jp/IMG-20231211-162327.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/sw9Ftmw/IMG-20231211-162607.jpg
Leto
12-11-2023, 12:40 PM
N-L550 may originally have been a Finnic Y-lineage, but its ancient and modern distribution has nothing to do with Finns. It's expanded mostly via their neighbors, viz., Scandinavians and Balto-Slavs.
The overwhelming majority of hapogroup N in Scandinavians falls under N-L550, AFAIK.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSttHe0SZeOKits2cQdf7jqoDzX0pEDP ymkpA&usqp=CAU
N is indeed atypical for the Norse Germanics but I still think the Scandinavian descent should by no means be ruled out. Klyosov was the one claiming they weren't Varangians. What were they then? Slavs? Nah.
Ugo
12-11-2023, 12:55 PM
I've seen his results before. His non-Russian components are massive. Some have concluded that the Rurikids weren't of Scandinavian descent because the Y DNA isn't Scandinavian. What do you think?
The Rurikovich subclades N1c are Swedish. They were definitely Scandinavian.
Leto
12-11-2023, 01:07 PM
I've used these four modern references and this is what I get:

Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 1.5973% / 0.01597251
42.8 Tatar_Siberian
28.6 Danish
24.8 Georgian_Imer
3.8 Belarusian

With Swedish instead of Danish + Belarusian:

Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 1.6768% / 0.01676800
42.0 Tatar_Siberian
32.0 Swedish
26.0 Georgian_Imer
Ugo
12-11-2023, 01:14 PM
I've used these four modern references and this is what I get:

Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 1.5973% / 0.01597251
42.8 Tatar_Siberian
28.6 Danish
24.8 Georgian_Imer
3.8 Belarusian

With Swedish instead of Danish + Belarusian:

Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 1.6768% / 0.01676800
42.0 Tatar_Siberian
32.0 Swedish
26.0 Georgian_ImerHe is basically a Polovtsian. But it has some kind of Western European admixture.
axlredneck
12-11-2023, 01:22 PM
I've used these four modern references and this is what I get:

Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 1.5973% / 0.01597251
42.8 Tatar_Siberian
28.6 Danish
24.8 Georgian_Imer
3.8 Belarusian

With Swedish instead of Danish + Belarusian:

Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 1.6768% / 0.01676800
42.0 Tatar_Siberian
32.0 Swedish
26.0 Georgian_Imer

The Ruriks established themselves in Russia in the 9th century. You can't expect the Scandinavian profile to persist even in the second half of the 13th century!
Leto
12-11-2023, 01:33 PM
He is basically a Polovtsian. But it has some kind of Western European admixture.
Only 1/4 Polovets/Cuman, I believe. He also allegedly had Alanic/Jassic ancestry.
Ugo
12-11-2023, 01:45 PM
The Ruriks established themselves in Russia in the 9th century. You can't expect the Scandinavian profile to persist even in the second half of the 13th century!

The Rurikovichi have mixed with Scandinavia many times in their history. It is foolish to look for the original profile of Scandinavia from the descendants of Alexander Nevsky. The whole of Eurasia is mixed up there
Ugo
12-11-2023, 01:47 PM
Only 1/4 Polovets/Cuman, I believe. He also allegedly had Alanic/Jassic ancestry.

Perhaps. It is also unknown who the Polovtsians were.
Flamingo
12-21-2023, 03:52 PM
N is typical Finno Ugric. The majority of Finno Ugrics have it. He is therefore from that population. Might be Tatar as well since some Russian monarchs were actually christianized tatars.
gixajo
12-21-2023, 04:01 PM
Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 2.4898% / 0.02489831
44.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.8 TUR_Barcin_N
11.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
11.2 Han
7.6 Nganassan
7.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
1.4 WHG
0.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
andrzej
12-22-2023, 05:18 PM
Perhaps. It is also unknown who the Polovtsians were.
They were Cumans we know that, and they intermixed with our nobility and also settled in Central Ukraine (they also contributed to the ethnogenesis of Cossacks in the Steppes).


Yaroslav married his first wife c. 1205. She was a daughter of Yuri Konchakovich, Khan of the Cumans. Her people belonged to the Kipchaks, a confederation of pastoralists and warriors of Turkic origin.
andrzej
12-22-2023, 05:29 PM
N is typical Finno Ugric. The majority of Finno Ugrics have it. He is therefore from that population. Might be Tatar as well since some Russian monarchs were actually christianized tatars.
His mother was: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F_% D0%9C%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0 %BD%D0%B0

Daughter of a Cuman woman whose father was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ten
DomitiusAurelian
12-22-2023, 05:36 PM
Target: NEV2_scaled
Distance: 1.9602% / 0.01960170
56.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
18.6 MNG_Slab_Grave
14.4 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
10.6 RUS_Maykop

Target: Domitius_scaled
Distance: 1.4395% / 0.01439526
63.0 Anatolian
19.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
10.2 MNG_Slab_Grave
6.6 BMAC
1.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En