IQ maps of Europe and the World (PISA scores)

[Supercomputer]

I've made these maps from all PISA scores available (math, science, reading and problem solving). IMO PISA is the best data to use to inquire a nation's IQ for the following reasons;

- PISA test is essentially an IQ test. PISA scores and standard IQ test scores correlate at an astonishing level (0.94). Questions are not so curriculum based but students have to solve real world problems using things they learned in school. "Reading" does not involve literal reading, but understanding articles and texts. You can take a look at examples of PISA tests here: https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/
- PISA test scores are easily converted into IQ numbers. A score of 500 is IQ 100 while a score of 435 is a score of 90.
- PISA uses a much higher sample size than most standard studies on IQ tests (5000 minimum)
- PISA students are selected randomly from the pool of all 15 year old students from each country, unlike with studies on classic IQ test which often use samples which don't represent the whole country
- Statistical variation of PISA scores for a particular country across years are very small, which suggests PISA "captures" the representative sample of a country's population unlike studies on standard IQ test, where scores vary up to 20 IQ points from study to study. In countries where there are only a few studies published it's very possible they won't "capture" a representative sample for the entire country. If you then average it out for multiple years like I did, it's even more statistically representative.
- PISA score map of Europe and the world has much less variety with neighboring culturally and genetically similar countries which suggests the numbers are accurate. Balkan Muslim countries and SE Asia are the only regions where there are sudden "drops".

These maps are based on all PISA data going back from 2000 - 2022. IMO scores from early 2000 are just as important when calculating final IQ of a country. People who took the test in 2000 are today in their late 30s and are very much alive and contribute to the country even more so than kids aged 16 who took the test last year.

These numbers include immigrants, I would make maps from non immigrant scores, but I only found them for math. Non immigrant scores for countries with large numbers of immigrants would undoubtedly score higher as OECD data itself shows immigrants in most Western countries depress the numbers, but they probably don't depress the numbers much. For example in Netherlands for 2022 only 14% of those tested were from immigrant background and the final score goes all the way back to 2000 when there were even less immigrants.

Regarding the colors; The world average IQ according to Lynn and Becker is around 85 so I chose scores higher than that to be green while scores lower to be red.

https://i.postimg.cc/cCh4cz1N/Both-IQ-maps.png (https://postimg.cc/sGBrjwZn)

[tita]

Super dude, can't wait to see the non immigrant one !

[black hole]

I would rather choose Serbia and Bulgaria over Finland and Japan. The last ones do not know how to live their life properly. PISA is a useless autistic stuff.

[Insuperable]

If I see PISA written once more time I am gonna snap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdEoH2KAkfI

[Supercomputer]

I would rather choose Serbia and Bulgaria over Finland and Japan. The last ones do not know how to live their life properly. PISA is a useless autistic stuff.

Seems to correlate pretty well with GDP per capita and other important stats.

[Supercomputer]

I've made these maps from all PISA scores available (math, science, reading and problem solving). IMO PISA is the best data to use to inquire a nation's IQ for the following reasons;

- PISA test is essentially an IQ test. PISA scores and standard IQ test scores correlate at an astonishing level (0.94). Questions are not so curriculum based but students have to solve real world problems using things they learned in school. "Reading" does not involve literal reading, but understanding articles and texts. You can take a look at examples of PISA tests here: https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/
- PISA test scores are easily converted into IQ numbers. A score of 500 is IQ 100 while a score of 435 is a score of 90.
- PISA uses a much higher sample size than most standard studies on IQ tests (5000 minimum)
- PISA students are selected randomly from the pool of all 15 year old students from each country, unlike with studies on classic IQ test which often use samples which don't represent the whole country
- Statistical variation of PISA scores for a particular country across years are very small, which suggests PISA "captures" the representative sample of a country's population unlike studies on standard IQ test, where scores vary up to 20 IQ points from study to study. In countries where there are only a few studies published it's very possible they won't "capture" a representative sample for the entire country. If you then average it out for multiple years like I did, it's even more statistically representative.
- PISA score map of Europe and the world has much less variety with neighboring culturally and genetically similar countries which suggests the numbers are accurate. Balkan Muslim countries and SE Asia are the only regions where there are sudden "drops".

These maps are based on all PISA data going back from 2000 - 2022. IMO scores from early 2000 are just as important when calculating final IQ of a country. People who took the test in 2000 are today in their late 30s and are very much alive and contribute to the country even more so than kids aged 16 who took the test last year.

These numbers include immigrants, I would make maps from non immigrant scores, but I only found them for math. Non immigrant scores for countries with large numbers of immigrants would undoubtedly score higher as OECD data itself shows immigrants in most Western countries depress the numbers, but they probably don't depress the numbers much. For example in Netherlands for 2022 only 14% of those tested were from immigrant background and the final score goes all the way back to 2000 when there were even less immigrants.

Regarding the colors; The world average IQ according to Lynn and Becker is around 85 so I chose scores higher than that to be green while scores lower to be red.

https://i.postimg.cc/cCh4cz1N/Both-IQ-maps.png (https://postimg.cc/sGBrjwZn)


Here is the link to the HD version:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QtNtCg2-sL4Ko6UQpo7j-y_WFzpCY-F9/view?usp=sharing

It shrunk the original to the point you can't see the numbers

[Your Old Comrade]

If I see PISA written once more time I am gonna snap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdEoH2KAkfI

PISA, bro. PISA!

:heh:

[Nurzat]

no big surprises there.

I was curious for more non-Euro countries, I got a soft spot for the Greater Persia area, but unfortunately they don't take the PISA tests :coffee:

[Creoda]

My country has a decent score so these numbers must be valid.

The ones that say we're below 100 must be faulty methodology or malpractice :rolleyes:

[Oghuz]

What we measure right now through IQ tests is a highly variable and environmentally dependent quantity which I am afraid a socio-psychologist can explain better than me. How do these tests create a sample volume of people? If the same group of people undergoes rigorous training for the said tests and their scores improve, then what becomes of the entire theory of IQ is related to geography and race?

Unless we have an actual way of measuring synaptic density, the concentration of types of neurotransmitters, imaging up the neuron networks at molecular levels (there could be 50+ such molecular descriptors) then normalizing this data, running a PCA model on it to create one scoring function, we just can not rate an individual. In the near future with advancements in NMR/MRI techniques, such neuro measurements will become more and more possible. Right now IQ tests are pseudoscientific, actual neuromolecular metrics are not.

(My post on IQ before)

[RN97]

I am not going to disagree with the results or whatnot, but both IQ and educational attainment is heavily influenced by upbringing and how the parents stimulate or do not stimulate, the child intellectually.
Just one example: https://www.bellybelly.com.au/toddler/talking-to-toddlers-improves-intelligence/
I think anti-IQ people should look more at what increases IQ, rather than denying its validity.

[Kess]

I would rather choose Serbia and Bulgaria over Finland and Japan. The last ones do not know how to live their life properly. PISA is a useless autistic stuff.


If I see PISA written once more time I am gonna snap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdEoH2KAkfI

Fuck PISA

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/12/03/expert-how-pisa-created-an-illusion-education-quality-marketed-it-world/

[coolfrenchguy]

PISA in france is catastrophic because we are overwhelming of low IQ north african and africans third worlders , yuou have no idea how the africans are really fucking dumb ,you have no idea of their level of dumberness,really

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

last test i made some times ago : IQ 108 meaning than i'am quite above the rest

[Supercomputer]

What we measure right now through IQ tests is a highly variable and environmentally dependent quantity which I am afraid a socio-psychologist can explain better than me. How do these tests create a sample volume of people? If the same group of people undergoes rigorous training for the said tests and their scores improve, then what becomes of the entire theory of IQ is related to geography and race?

Unless we have an actual way of measuring synaptic density, the concentration of types of neurotransmitters, imaging up the neuron networks at molecular levels (there could be 50+ such molecular descriptors) then normalizing this data, running a PCA model on it to create one scoring function, we just can not rate an individual. In the near future with advancements in NMR/MRI techniques, such neuro measurements will become more and more possible. Right now IQ tests are pseudoscientific, actual neuromolecular metrics are not.

(My post on IQ before)

IQ tests are not pseudoscientic. IQ is the most predictably valid psychometric and has survived more ideologically motivated attacks than anything else in psychology. The people who deny IQ and it's importance are ideologues who don't know what they're taking about. Weather or not IQ is genetic or environmental has been studies to death for last 60 years and data says it's about at least 2/3 genetic barring extreme environments like malnutrition. 84% of intelligence experts think Black and White IQ gap is at least somewhat connected to race. The idea all populations have exactly the same predispositions to intelligence is as stupid as saying all populations have exactly the same predisposition to height or lactose intoleranca. It isn't supported by any data and it doesn't make sense evolutionary.

[Varda]

I would rather choose Serbia and Bulgaria over Finland and Japan. The last ones do not know how to live their life properly. PISA is a useless autistic stuff.

Super intelligent people are often untalented for real life.

When my mother was in high school in her class was guy who was genius. He didn't study outside of school and was the best student. He remembered and understood everything from the professor's lectures in classes. He was especially superior in mathematics. After high school when came to the university he thought he will finish without any studying outside of classes like in high school. It was too much for him regardless his super high IQ, and he left the university. He did not marry and create family, but became an alcoholic and died relatively young.

[catgeorge]

These are silly.... Australia is 23% Christian and 40% immigrant and according to the results has one of the highest IQs in the world. Says something about those wanting to push agendas.

[Hektor12]

Right now IQ tests are pseudoscientific, actual neuromolecular metrics are not.

Calling IQ tests "pseudoscience" is very big overstatement. IQ tests are benchmark tests of brain, what you suggest is like a CPUID. Yes you can see how many transistors you have in CPUID but you cant see what FPS do you get with specific game.

[Damião de Góis]

The dramatic change in the color scheme between 97 and 98 is quite funny. I searched to see if 98 was a special number in the IQ world, but it isn't. It's just that the OP wanted to group certain countries together.

While i was searching for the magic 98 number i also read that a score between 90 and 109 indicate normal or average intelligence.

[Petalpusher]

These are silly.... Australia is 23% Christian and 40% immigrant and according to the results has one of the highest IQs in the world. Says something about those wanting to push agendas.

Australia has a lot of East Asians which might explain it. However they "forgot" to report more than 6% of their worst students like many other countries as well. Hong Kong did this too and Singapor is 35pts above them in some scores wich is in no way possible. South Korea is probably the only legit score in East Asia with maybe Japan, the rest turned into a political small dick contest, or their own form of soft power.

[Zeno]

Because I can't repeat saying exactly the same things, here's my comment in that thread: (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?330307-Atrocious-European-IQ-scores)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?330307-Atrocious-European-IQ-scores&p=7865233&viewfull=1#post7865233

Synopsis: PISA testing is not really reliable. Mainly because it's done on students, who really don't give the effort that's needed to do it, as most openly say they give an effort of 6-7/10 in the barometer of effort embeded on the end of the test itself. Plus, PISA tests do not measure actual global intelligence, as they're limited in three fields, that require some academic knowledge, in that case, up until early high school: mathematics, physics and reading. And, on top of that, the OECD and other parallel research, as I also linked in my reply, has indicated that students would give actual effort if they were told that this test would count in their grades. Which makes absolutely sense considering they strive for the best performance on school that they can attain.

Actual IQ tests measure pattern recognition, visual and acoustic processing and the speeds, and short-term and long-term memories. Aka, they want to see how neurons basically activate and how well they function, because as of right now, we still don't have scanning technology to precisely see how a human's brain functions during thinking holistically. These don't require academic knowledge, but basic thinking. And, unlike PISA, IQ tests are done on adults mostly, preferably those who have completed basic or tertiary education. Completely different situations.

The only thing that's interesting is how the scores for these tests were converted into IQ points. Interesting graph, but I still disagree, as there are notable fallacies.


Australia has a lot of East Asians which might explain it. However they "forgot" to report more than 6% of their worst students like many other countries as well. Hong Kong did this too and Singapor is 35pts above them in some scores wich is in no way possible. South Korea is probably the only legit score in East Asia with maybe Japan, the rest turned into a political small dick contest, or their own form of soft power.

Don't forget Sweden, it excluded 11% of its students in 2018 (https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/too-many-students-excluded-from-taking-pisa-test-report-finds), as it was discovered in 2021. And they probably did it again.

And China consistenly chooses only 4 cities to represent it.

Singapore has a program in its curriculum that prepares students who'll take the test, which would make sense in how much of a difference they present compared to all other nations who participated.

[Svevlad]

Super intelligent people are often untalented for real life.

When my mother was in high school in her class was guy who was genius. He didn't study outside of school and was the best student. He remembered and understood everything from the professor's lectures in classes. He was especially superior in mathematics. After high school when came to the university he thought he will finish without any studying outside of classes like in high school. It was too much for him regardless his super high IQ, and he left the university. He did not marry and create family, but became an alcoholic and died relatively young.

Winthropian... Balkanoid midwits (90 IQ) wouldn't get it...

[Supercomputer]

Because I can't repeat saying exactly the same things, here's my comment in that thread: (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?330307-Atrocious-European-IQ-scores)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?330307-Atrocious-European-IQ-scores&p=7865233&viewfull=1#post7865233

Synopsis: PISA testing is not really reliable. Mainly because it's done on students, who really don't give the effort that's needed to do it, as most openly say they give an effort of 6-7/10 in the barometer of effort embeded on the end of the test itself. Plus, PISA tests do not measure actual global intelligence, as they're limited in three fields, that require some academic knowledge, in that case, up until early high school: mathematics, physics and reading. And, on top of that, the OECD and other parallel research, as I also linked in my reply, has indicated that students would give actual effort if they were told that this test would count in their grades. Which makes absolutely sense considering they strive for the best performance on school that they can attain.

Actual IQ tests measure pattern recognition, visual and acoustic processing and the speeds, and short-term and long-term memories. Aka, they want to see how neurons basically activate and how well they function, because as of right now, we still don't have scanning technology to precisely see how a human's brain functions during thinking holistically. These don't require academic knowledge, but basic thinking. And, unlike PISA, IQ tests are done on adults mostly, preferably those who have completed basic or tertiary education. Completely different situations.

The only thing that's interesting is how the scores for these tests were converted into IQ points. Interesting graph, but I still disagree, as there are notable fallacies.



Don't forget Sweden, it excluded 11% of its students in 2018 (https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/too-many-students-excluded-from-taking-pisa-test-report-finds), as it was discovered in 2021. And they probably did it again.

And China consistenly chooses only 4 cities to represent it.

Singapore has a program in its curriculum that prepares students who'll take the test, which would make sense in how much of a difference they present compared to all other nations who participated.

Didn't Swedes exclude immigrants? To be fair, excluding immigrants isn't cheating. Including them is what is actually unfair to Sweden.

[Zeno]

Didn't Swedes exclude immigrants? To be fair, excluding immigrants isn't cheating. Including them is what is actually unfair to Sweden.

Well, not all of them, a much bigger than 11% percentage of their student population is non-Swedish. I guess they excluded the most unfit. But still, PISA gives a margin rate of up until 5% exclusion. Not more than double of that.

[Oghuz]

IQ tests are not pseudoscientic. IQ is the most predictably valid psychometric and has survived more ideologically motivated attacks than anything else in psychology. The people who deny IQ and it's importance are ideologues who don't know what they're taking about. Weather or not IQ is genetic or environmental has been studies to death for last 60 years and data says it's about at least 2/3 genetic barring extreme environments like malnutrition. 84% of intelligence experts think Black and White IQ gap is at least somewhat connected to race. The idea all populations have exactly the same predispositions to intelligence is as stupid as saying all populations have exactly the same predisposition to height or lactose intoleranca. It isn't supported by any data and it doesn't make sense evolutionary.

Nothing stands in front of the molecular realities. These psychological evaluations are relative at best which is why they are, like taxonomy, a pseudoscience with no actual scientific basis. They give you rough ideas at best but would not give you actual measurements of dynamic neuro-synaptic processes at molecular levels that I have written about before. I keep on writing dynamic because some authors in the past have tried to relate IQ with static imaging of the brain through MRI but that even that concept is now obsolete among neurochemists let alone 19th century IQ tests. For someone interested, the day we can get NMRs with 30+ Tesla superconducting magnets probably then we will be able to compare the "intellectual stimuli" of two individuals at the atomic level to rate them.

You know what the biggest fault in IQ tests are? Compared groups/samples are NEVER EVER "normalized" before evaluation. They will always have variable characteristics like growing up in different envoironments that directly influence their cognitive development. Lets say one ethnic group had an amazing natural sciences education system so people develop cognitive skills but same ethnicity in a bordering country had no such development because of a weak educational system. The entire IQ test logic just falls on its face right there because these variables lead to variations in scores that are more reflective of their socio-political differences rather than their inherent intellect.

[Supercomputer]

Nothing stands in front of the molecular realities. These psychological evaluations are relative at best which is why they are, like taxonomy, a pseudoscience with no actual scientific basis. They give you rough ideas at best but would not give you actual measurements of dynamic neuro-synaptic processes at molecular levels that I have written about before. I keep on writing dynamic because some authors in the past have tried to relate IQ with static imaging of the brain through MRI but that even that concept is now obsolete among neurochemists let alone 19th century IQ tests. For someone interested, the day we can get NMRs with 30+ Tesla superconducting magnets probably then we will be able to compare the "intellectual stimuli" of two individuals at the atomic level to rate them.

You know what the biggest fault in IQ tests are? Compared groups/samples are NEVER EVER "normalized" before evaluation. They will always have variable characteristics like growing up in different envoironments that directly influence their cognitive development. Lets say one ethnic group had an amazing natural sciences education system so people develop cognitive skills but same ethnicity in a bordering country had no such development because of a weak educational system. The entire IQ test logic just falls on its face right there because these variables lead to variations in scores that are more reflective of their socio-political differences rather than their inherent intellect.

Neuroscience and molecular DNA testing of IQ isn't as advanced yet to infer someone's IQ as much as an IQ test so the IQ testi is the best we have right now. Taxonomy isn't a pesuoscience and so it's psychology. The "show me the gene/neurological mechanism" argument is a copout until science becomes advanced enough to infer IQ based on data derived from it. Until then IQ tests are perfectly valid tool to infer IQ and group differences in IQ. There is ample evidence that group difference in IQ is mostly genetic ranging from admixture studies, subtest heritability, twin studies and adoption studies etc. People who try to dismiss all this evidence with "show me the gene/mechanism" are sore loser who have trouble accepting inconvenient facts.

[tita]

Winthropian... Balkanoid midwits (90 IQ) wouldn't get it...

Claiming that balkanoids have lower iq than greeks is stupid, they have exactly the same genetic, they are even more in the north

[Rostos vilmoskörte]

Well, not all of them, a much bigger than 11% percentage of their student population is non-Swedish. I guess they excluded the most unfit. But still, PISA gives a margin rate of up until 5% exclusion. Not more than double of that.

non citizens are excluded and should be excluded.

[Oghuz]

Neuroscience and molecular DNA testing of IQ isn't as advanced yet to infer someone's IQ as much as an IQ test so the IQ testi is the best we have right now.

This is not how sciences work that just because we are not advanced enough in some field yet so let's just replace the facts with assumptions without normalizing the samples first.


Taxonomy isn't a pesuoscience and so it's psychology.

Taxonomy is a pseudoscience because cranial measurements often have no relationship with genetics. Ask me for examples and I will give some.


The "show me the gene/neurological mechanism" argument is a copout until science becomes advanced enough to infer IQ based on data derived from it. Until then IQ tests are perfectly valid tool to infer IQ and group differences in IQ.

Molecular facts matter far more than 19th century pseudoscientific theories behind "tests" for taxonomy and psychology etc. Even if we go by your logic then please answer me on this, I asked you before but you did not answer

- How does PISA normalize the two samples before comparing them when it's a FACT that cognitive development reflects environmental growth? When two groups received no standardized environment growing up, how can they be compared?

- If IQ is reflective of genetics only then how come we have Mongoloids, Turko-Iranics, Caucasians, Indopaks scoring similarly in hard sciences H-Index or intellect sports like Chess?

[Supercomputer]

This is not how sciences work that just because we are not advanced enough in some field yet so let's just replace the facts with assumptions without normalizing the samples first.



Taxonomy is a pseudoscience because cranial measurements often have no relationship with genetics. Ask me for examples and I will give some.



Molecular facts matter far more than 19th century pseudoscientific theories behind "tests" for taxonomy and psychology etc. Even if we go by your logic then please answer me on this, I asked you before but you did not answer

- How does PISA normalize the two samples before comparing them when it's a FACT that cognitive development reflects environmental growth? When two groups received no standardized environment growing up, how can they be compared?

- If IQ is reflective of genetics only then how come we have Mongoloids, Turko-Iranics, Caucasians, Indopaks scoring similarly in hard sciences H-Index or intellect sports like Chess?

Nothing behind IQ and race science is assumptions. Races evolved. Evolution is not an assumption. If anything about IQ was pseudo scientific, IQ would be gone from science a long time ago given how politically controversial it is since the undisputed racial and sex differences. But it's still here after 100 years and 70 years of entire cultural zeitgeist being that of anti racism, egalitarianism and equality.

Oh please, even the leftie "anti racist" Wikipedia doesn't classify taxonomy as psudoscience.

What the hell are you talking about? Nobody denies there are environmental factors that contribute to IQ and PISA scores? That doesn't make PISA scores less valid. But to say that since there are environmental factors, that must mean there are no genetic factors is a logical fallacy. There can be both. And the idea all populations have the same potential for intelligence is ludicrous and extremely unlikely under evolutionary logic.

[Kess]

What is your IQ score OP?

[Oghuz]

Nothing behind IQ and race science is assumptions. Races evolved.


If IQ is reflective of genetics only then how come we have Mongoloids, Turko-Iranics, Caucasians, and Indopaks scoring similarly in hard sciences H-Index or intellect based competitions?


If anything about IQ was pseudo scientific, IQ would be gone from science a long time ago given how politically controversial it is since the undisputed racial and sex differences. But it's still here after 100 years and 70 years of entire cultural zeitgeist being that of anti racism, egalitarianism and equality.


People practice witchcraft, eastern medicine, spirituality, and pray to unseen gods too in the modern world.

I have already explained that molecular neurologists do not consider IQ tests as absolute science because, before IQ scoring, samples are never normalized. Let alone this 19th-century test, they would not even take static neuroimaging seriously (90s science) since intellect stimuli are now established to be a a dynamic process.



Oh please, even the leftie "anti racist" Wikipedia doesn't classify taxonomy as psudoscience.


I care for mathematical reality, not what Wikipedia says. And yes taxonomy is a pseudoscience because cranial measurements + pigmentation, the baseline of taxonomy, often do not have any relationship with genetics. An Iranic man can have the same cranial measurement or pigmentation as a Germanic yet they are far apart from each other in their genetics. What is happening here? the molecular reality (genetics) does not align with pseudoscience from the 19th century which was based upon macro scale metrics, the only tool available back then. Case of IQ is the same being from the same obsolete era.



What the hell are you talking about? Nobody denies there are environmental factors that contribute to IQ and PISA scores? That doesn't make PISA scores less valid.But to say that since there are environmental factors, that must mean there are no genetic factors is a logical fallacy. There can be both. And the idea all populations have the same potential for intelligence is ludicrous and extremely unlikely under evolutionary logic.

If you are accepting that PISA tests do not normalize the samples before comparing them then you are accepting that PISA tests are not valid. Again you did not answer my question, when it's a FACT that cognitive development reflects environmental growth, how can two groups who received no standardized environment growing up, be compared?

[Johnny V]

2023 PISA
https://blogs.iadb.org/educacion/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2023/12/Bajo-desempeno-matematica-_1200x600-2-1024x512.png

[Supercomputer]

If IQ is reflective of genetics only then how come we have Mongoloids, Turko-Iranics, Caucasians, and Indopaks scoring similarly in hard sciences H-Index or intellect based competitions?



People practice witchcraft, eastern medicine, spirituality, and pray to unseen gods too in the modern world.

I have already explained that molecular neurologists do not consider IQ tests as absolute science because, before IQ scoring, samples are never normalized. Let alone this 19th-century test, they would not even take static neuroimaging seriously (90s science) since intellect stimuli are now established to be a a dynamic process.



I care for mathematical reality, not what Wikipedia says. And yes taxonomy is a pseudoscience because cranial measurements + pigmentation, the baseline of taxonomy, often do not have any relationship with genetics. An Iranic man can have the same cranial measurement or pigmentation as a Germanic yet they are far apart from each other in their genetics. What is happening here? the molecular reality (genetics) does not align with pseudoscience from the 19th century which was based upon macro scale metrics, the only tool available back then. Case of IQ is the same being from the same obsolete era.



If you are accepting that PISA tests do not normalize the samples before comparing them then you are accepting that PISA tests are not valid. Again you did not answer my question, when it's a FACT that cognitive development reflects environmental growth, how can two groups who received no standardized environment growing up, be compared?

If IQ is a pseudoscience how can you explain the fact that it predicts life outcomes such as economic success, likelihood of ending up in prison, extramarital children etc? Things that have predictive validity are not pseudoscience. You did not answer my question of how come IQ is still a respected psychometric despite the fact that our entire cultural Zeitgeist is of anti racism and equality. It is because experts that know what they're talking about disagree with you. Attacks on IQ are politically motivated pseudoscience.

Sorry, I find none of your arguments convincing and I don't have time arguing. To me you're just another Haji that refuses to accept the fact that your people are inferior relative to Europeans.

[gixajo]

If IQ is a pseudoscience how can you explain the fact that it predicts life outcomes such as economic success, likelihood of ending up in prison, extramarital children etc? Things that have predictive validity are not pseudoscience. You did not answer my question of how come IQ is still a respected psychometric despite the fact that our entire cultural Zeitgeist is of anti racism and equality. It is because experts that know what they're talking about disagree with you. Attacks on IQ are politically motivated pseudoscience.

Sorry, I find none of your arguments convincing and I don't have time arguing. To me you're just another Haji that refuses to accept the fact that your people are inferior relative to Europeans.

And how do you know that it is the higher/lower IQ that produces all that, and not all that that produces higher/lower IQ?

What is the cause and what is the consequence?

Were Europeans more intelligent than the Chinese 30 years ago? Were Egyptians more intelligent than Europeans 3000 years ago?

Were Southern Europeans more intelligent than Northern Europeans 1000-2000 years ago?

[Supercomputer]

And how do you know that it is the higher/lower IQ that produces all that, and not all that that produces higher/lower IQ?

What is the cause and what is the consequence?



Race and IQ what experts think
https://ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2019/08/22/expert-surveys-on-race-and-iq/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289619301886

Higher IQ correlates with higher income
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2007-12577-007

European genetic ancestry predicts with intelligence within each major American race/ethnic groups and this remains true after controlling for racial self-identification, genetically predicted skin color, and parental education
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.24.312074v2.full.pdf

Racial ancestry predicts IQ after controlling for skin color and parental SES. Skin color does not predict IQ differences between siblings, suggesting discrimination can’t explain why skin color or ancestry predicts IQ.
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-8611/1/1/1

Polygenic scores (PGS) based on the frequency of genes which predict IQ within each race are highly predictive of national IQ differences even after controlling for malnutrition, measures of national development, and child mortality.
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-8611/1/1/5

Controlling for PGS reduces the relationship between African ancestry and IQ even after having already controlled for SES, skin color, self reported experience with discrimination, and measures of local institutional racism, suggesting racial IQ differences are partly caused by the genes measured by the PGS.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354766492_Genetic_Ancestry_and_General_Cognitive_A bility_in_a_Sample_of_American_Youths

Explaining Racial Inequality

Adding IQ to a standard set of variables predicting income flips the black-white income gap so that blacks now make more than whites.
https://sci-hub.ee/https:/www.jstor.org/stable/2096392?origin=crossref

Adding verbal ability to a standard set of controls eliminated the black-white income gap at least as far back as the 1970s.
https://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/MDE2005.pdf

At similar levels of IQ, educational attainment is higher for blacks than it is for whites.
https://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3KEQONNNEQPV7&keywords=the+bell+curve&qid=1650633476&sprefix=the+bell+curv%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-1

Adding IQ to a standard set of control variables eliminates the black-white gap in criminal sentence length.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/0735648X.1996.9721533

After controlling for IQ and self reported history of violence, the black-white gap in the probability of being arrested and/or incarcerated is no longer statistically significant.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.paid.2013.01.020

Controlling for IQ and impulsivity, race is unrelated to the probability that an ex-convict will be arrested.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336572503_A_longitudinal_examination_of_the_associ ation_between_intelligence_and_rearrest_using_a_la tent_trait-state-occasion_modeling_approach_in_a_sample_of_previous ly_adjudicated_youth


IQ matters more than anything else
https://www.nber.org/papers/w24110

Meta-analyses find that antisocial behavior is substantially heritable.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2656184?fbclid=IwAR13wH0Yxy-5_vBu3stS4xM0NltbOZAevyRy1mDvt3d7fmnL5MFnf4-Tn0k

IQ was found to be a significant predictor of grades for both blacks and whites. Blacks and whites with similar IQ scores had roughly similar grades.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-02038-008?fbclid=IwAR1A_Wl7NON0AJB1QPjM8eTVPUjex-L0SM-0peeW8eeOYqvPYM6OwNPCmVg

Black White IQ adopted environment
https://reasonwithoutrestraint.com/quantifying-the-genetic-component-of-the-black-white-iq-gap/#Black_and_white_children_adopted_by_white_familie s

Black and White IQ gap summary of the data
https://www.josephbronski.com/p/how-much-of-the-black-white-iq-gap

https://seanlast.substack.com/p/prediction-strength-in-race-and-iq

No difference in heritability of IQ between races in the US

Racial and ethnic group differences in the heritability of intelligence: A systematic review and meta analysis

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289619301904

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337592508_Racial_and_ethnic_group_differences_in_t he_heritability_of_intelligence_A_systematic_revie w_and_meta-analysis

Blacks have smaller Brains

brain size, iq and racial group differences evidence from musculoskeletal traits

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016028960200137X#:~:text=Within%20each%20race%2C% 20the%20children,children%20an%20IQ%20of%2090.

The correlation between adopted brothers and sisters (genetically unrelated people raised together) shows that the IQ correlation between them falls to zero in adulthood — suggesting shared childhood environment has no impact on intelligence in adulthood.

Adopted children will much more closely resemble their biological (i.e., "birth") parents in cognitive abilities than their adoptive parents. The discrepancy becomes fairly remarkable as times goes on — as the influence of the environment wanes and that of genes increases.

The IQs of children who had been adopted was much more highly correlated with the IQs of their biological parents than with their adoptive parents — this was true both when they were teenagers and when they were adults.

These findings provide further evidence for the predominance of genetic influences on adult intelligence over any other systematic source of variation
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289621000635

Crime and IQ
https://t.co/fsYdXnhmmP

Smarter people more wealth. Iq predictive validity
https://t.co/tZLDOJV9ap

"The extremely low IQs that Lynn and Becker estimate for sub-Saharan Africa are likely not systematically underestimating African IQs, as earlier critics have claimed."
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-022-00351-y


Twin study IQ g is mostly genetic
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19634053/

The association between lower IQ and higher antisocial behavior is a consistent finding.
https://eriskstudy.com/media/1sybyw5z/tielbeek_2022.pdf

Among brothers within the same family, the one with lower IQ ability is more likely to be convicted of a violent crime. The persistence of the effect suggests something other than socioeconomic factors — probably genetics — is in play
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0041783


IQ and climate
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289614000877

Black and White IQ gap is not closing
https://www.cremieux.xyz/p/the-state-of-the-gaps-2022-23

Link between iq and violence
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/abs/association-between-intelligence-quotient-and-violence-perpetration-in-the-english-general-population/AF21CE0AEDE9FFB0BC44AA1D059CF735

IQ more predictive of life outcomes than class or ses
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289620300891

Educability genes and IQ correlation
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-8611/1/1/5

IQ of adopted Blacks still 85
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/handbook-of-intelligence/1CB4CF1E392B5A7332250A4DD2964DA3

IQ is declining by country
https://www.cspicenter.com/p/are-we-getting-dumber



Were Egyptians more intelligent than Europeans 3000 years ago?

Were Southern Europeans more intelligent than Northern Europeans 1000-2000 years ago?

Possibly. There are studies showing that upper classes in Europe had more surviving children than lower classes over the last 1000 years.


Were Europeans more intelligent than the Chinese 30 years ago?

In the 1980s China was 2x poorer than SubSaharan Africa. Yet their IQ was much higher than 70. Average IQ of Arab oil rich countries is between 79-84 yet they are rich have been rich for quite some time.

[Rædwald]

https://i.postimg.cc/W4zbzwqc/Screenshot-20240203-113810-com-android-chrome.jpg

I did the mensa.no one, idk how accurate it is

[gixajo]

And how do you know that it is the higher/lower IQ that produces all that, and not all that that produces higher/lower IQ?

What is the cause and what is the consequence?



The only thing directly related to my question would be this:




Higher IQ correlates with higher income
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2007-12577-007


But it doesn't answer it.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

N00bs talking about IQ is always amusing.

If you want to have an understanding of national IQ stop relying on Lynn or academic tests such as PISA, SATs (im well aware I did so recently in a thread about US states but it was more of a joke), and go straight to the studies themselves. For example, there is an IQ study with large samples for Portugal broken down by region (that Lynn had some sort of role but not directly) that showed Portuguse score higher than your map. I posted the study on the forum.

[gixajo]

N00bs talking about IQ is always amusing.

Lynn is not to be trusted. He's not a dishonest person, imo. He's an incompetent person. I spoke about this in a thread about Irish IQ.

If you want to have an understanding of national IQ stop relying on Lynn or academic tests suchvas PISA. SATs (im well aare I did so recentlt in a thread about US states but it was more of a joke), and go straight to the studies themselves. For example, there is an IQ study with large samples for Portugal broken down by region (that Lynn had some sort of role but directly) that showed Portugues score higher than your map. I posted the study on the forum.

Intelligence, in any case, is an individual quality.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Intelligence, in any case, is an individual quality.

A group is made up of individuals.

You shouldn't assume something about an individual based on their group because an average is exavlcyky what it is: an average. However, an average allows you to know a group's trend.

[gixajo]

A group is made up of individuals.

You shouldn't assume something about an individual based on their group because an average is exavlcyky what it is: an average. However, an average allows you to know a group's trend.

I'll say it again.

Intelligence, in any case, is an individual quality.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

N00bs talking about IQ is always amusing.

Lynn is not to be trusted. He's not a dishonest person, imo. He's an incompetent person. I spoke about this in a thread about Irish IQ.

If you want to have an understanding of national IQ stop relying on Lynn or academic tests suchvas PISA. SATs (im well aare I did so recentlt in a thread about US states but it was more of a joke), and go straight to the studies themselves. For example, there is an IQ study with large samples for Portugal broken down by region (that Lynn had some sort of role but directly) that showed Portugues score higher than your map. I posted the study on the forum.

I can't even see the scores the OP has for each country except whether it's two digits or three because it's so small the numbers blur. I tried zooming in. I guess my eyesight is going.

Here is an actual IQ study for Portugal with a large sample.


Regional differences in IQ and per capita incomes are presented for five regions of Portugal: North, North Central, Lisbon-Central, Lisbon-Suburb, and South. Regional IQs were calculated from a representative sample of 4548 Portuguese school students from 5th to 12th grades. The average IQ and average incomes are highest in Central Lisbon. The results show a positive association between IQs and average regional incomes, as it has been observed in other countries.

Method

The BPR (Bateria de Provas de Raciocinio) is a Portuguese intelligence test in four sections measuring figural-abstract reasoning, verbal reasoning, numerical ability and practical ability (consisting mainly of items on mechanical aptitudes).


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236273688_Regional_Differences_in_Intelligence_and _per_capita_Incomes_in_Portugal

https://i.imgur.com/pyIfRcE.jpeg

PISA is gay. It's as gay as using the SATs as a proxy for IQ (MENSA doesn't accept SAT scores from after 1996 or maybe it was after 1994).

If you want to have a rough idea of your IQ then buy a copy of ASVAB multiply your scores on the math and verbal sections by 2 and add 60 points.

Anyway, isn't the OP the fag who insists on the existence of Atlantids and gets real quiet when you ask him to reference a physical anthropologist who uses the term? The guy who won't acknowldge the term was invented by a guy in Austria who was all over these anthoboards and not an actually physical anthropogist? The OP failed my IQ test.

[Kess]

https://i.postimg.cc/W4zbzwqc/Screenshot-20240203-113810-com-android-chrome.jpg

I did the mensa.no one, idk how accurate it is

If it's the MENSA Iq challenge, a 25-minute, 35-minute puzzle test, it's just a very rough estimate. Even MENSA itself says it is only for fun purposes.

[Supercomputer]

I'll say it again.

Intelligence, in any case, is an individual quality.

There are very few if any human characteristics that naturally vary among individuals, but don't vary among groups.

[Supercomputer]

I can't even see the scores the OP has for each country except whether it's two digits or three because it's so small the numbers blur. I tried zooming in. I guess my eyesight is going.

Here is an actual IQ study for Portugal with a large sample.



https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236273688_Regional_Differences_in_Intelligence_and _per_capita_Incomes_in_Portugal

https://i.imgur.com/pyIfRcE.jpeg

PISA is gay. It's as gay as using the SATs as a proxy for IQ (MENSA doesn't accept SAT scores from after 1996 or maybe it was after 1994).

If you want to have a rough idea of your IQ then buy a copy of ASVAB multiply your scores on the math and verbal sections by 2 and add 60 points.

Anyway, isn't the OP the fag who insists on the existence of Atlantids and gets real quiet when you ask him to reference a physical anthropologist who uses the term? The guy who won't acknowldge the term was invented by a guy in Austria who was all over these anthoboards and not an actually physical anthropogist? The OP failed my IQ test.

Is that Portugal IQ synchronized to average IQ of 100 for White Americans or Native British? How do you know it's not synchronized for the Average Portuguese IQ (to whatever it is)? If it's the latter, that those numbers are only indicator for regional differences of Portugal, not the average IQ for whole country.

PISA is a better indicator for a country's IQ for several reasons:


- PISA test is essentially an IQ test. PISA scores and standard IQ test scores correlate at an astonishing level (0.94). Questions are not so curriculum based but students have to solve real world problems using things they learned in school. "Reading" does not involve literal reading, but understanding articles and texts. You can take a look at examples of PISA tests here: https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/
- PISA test scores are easily converted into IQ numbers. A score of 500 is IQ 100 while a score of 435 is a score of 90.
- PISA uses a much higher sample size than most standard studies on IQ tests (5000 minimum)
- PISA students are selected randomly from the pool of all 15 year old students from each country, unlike with studies on classic IQ test which often use samples which don't represent the whole country
- Statistical variation of PISA scores for a particular country across years are very small, which suggests PISA "captures" the representative sample of a country's population unlike studies on standard IQ test, where scores vary up to 20 IQ points from study to study. In countries where there are only a few studies published it's very possible they won't "capture" a representative sample for the entire country. If you then average it out for multiple years like I did, it's even more statistically representative.
- PISA score map of Europe and the world has much less variety with neighboring culturally and genetically similar countries which suggests the numbers are accurate. Balkan Muslim countries and SE Asia are the only regions where there are sudden "drops".

[Supercomputer]

The only thing directly related to my question would be this:



But it doesn't answer it.

You are right that specific link doesn't answer your questions but these do:


European genetic ancestry predicts with intelligence within each major American race/ethnic groups and this remains true after controlling for racial self-identification, genetically predicted skin color, and parental education
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.24.312074v2.full.pdf

Racial ancestry predicts IQ after controlling for skin color and parental SES. Skin color does not predict IQ differences between siblings, suggesting discrimination can’t explain why skin color or ancestry predicts IQ.
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-8611/1/1/1

Polygenic scores (PGS) based on the frequency of genes which predict IQ within each race are highly predictive of national IQ differences even after controlling for malnutrition, measures of national development, and child mortality.
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-8611/1/1/5

Controlling for PGS reduces the relationship between African ancestry and IQ even after having already controlled for SES, skin color, self reported experience with discrimination, and measures of local institutional racism, suggesting racial IQ differences are partly caused by the genes measured by the PGS.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354766492_Genetic_Ancestry_and_General_Cognitive_A bility_in_a_Sample_of_American_Youths

No difference in heritability of IQ between races in the US

Racial and ethnic group differences in the heritability of intelligence: A systematic review and meta analysis

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289619301904

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337592508_Racial_and_ethnic_group_differences_in_t he_heritability_of_intelligence_A_systematic_revie w_and_meta-analysis

Blacks have smaller Brains

brain size, iq and racial group differences evidence from musculoskeletal traits

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016028960200137X#:~:text=Within%20each%20race%2C% 20the%20children,children%20an%20IQ%20of%2090.


The correlation between adopted brothers and sisters (genetically unrelated people raised together) shows that the IQ correlation between them falls to zero in adulthood — suggesting shared childhood environment has no impact on intelligence in adulthood.

Adopted children will much more closely resemble their biological (i.e., "birth") parents in cognitive abilities than their adoptive parents. The discrepancy becomes fairly remarkable as times goes on — as the influence of the environment wanes and that of genes increases.

The IQs of children who had been adopted was much more highly correlated with the IQs of their biological parents than with their adoptive parents — this was true both when they were teenagers and when they were adults.

These findings provide further evidence for the predominance of genetic influences on adult intelligence over any other systematic source of variation
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289621000635

Twin study IQ g is mostly genetic
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19634053/

[BakersfieldChimp]

https://i.postimg.cc/W4zbzwqc/Screenshot-20240203-113810-com-android-chrome.jpg

I did the mensa.no one, idk how accurate it is

I got into Mensa in college. I went to one meet up and they were crazier than I am.

I taught myself to "pass for normal" early on and I have no regrets.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Is that Portugal IQ synchronized to average IQ of 100 for White Americans or Native British? How do you know it's not synchronized for the Average Portuguese IQ (to whatever it is)?

Because the standard is the same across the board. The validity of one IQ study with another is whether they correlate with each other. So we know the Wonderlic is valid because it correlates closely with other studies. We know the ASVAB gives a good indicator if you multiply verbal and math by 2 and 60.

Do you understand the below?


This study performed a cross battery confirmatory factor analysis of BPR-5 and WJ-III in order to investigate which latent constructs are being measured by the subtests of both batteries. The sample was composed of 90 Psychology undergraduate students (68% women), ages ranging from 20 to 46 (M=26.49, SD=7.16). These students answered eleven subtests (5 from BPR-5 and 6 from WJ-III) as a part of their assessment course. Results supported a model of three correlated factors comprised of crystallized intelligence-Gc verbal reasoning (vocabulary, synonyms, antonyms, analogies), fluid intelligence-Gf (abstract reasoning, concept formation and spatial relations) and visual processing-Gv (spatial reasoning, mechanical reasoning and numerical reasoning). Highly intelligent subjects also demonstrated an imbalanced profile of Gv over Gc. In conclusion, this study demonstrated the construct validity of these test batteries and confirmed the Cattell-Horn-Carroll (CHC) broad factors model for understanding and measuring intellectual differences.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317465425_Analise_fatorial_inter-baterias_Bateria_de_Habilidades_de_Raciocinio_BPR-5_y_Bateria_de_Habilidades_Cognitivas_Woodcock-Johnson_III


If it's the latter, that those numbers are only indicator for regional differences of Portugal, not the average IQ for whole country.

The difference between the score you gave for Portugal and that study is two points if you do the math and combine the entire population (unless I'm seeing it incorrectly; it's small and blurry to me as fuck). When I looked at your thread on my phone I could barely see the numbers and thought it was repeating the old 94 or 95 score that Lynn gave to Portugal years ago (btw, Lynn was involved in this study I posted).

So it is funny that you're getting defensive despite the score being negligibly different, which proves my theory that if you're disrespectful to someone they'll push back even when there is nothing to push back on. You could have said, "No, this study supports my work because of how similar the scores are" but you're an idiot. I'd argue the scores are similar by chance.





PISA is a better indicator for a country's IQ for several reasons:

I heard you the first time. The sample size doesn't matter if it's not a legitimate IQ test. I looked at some of the questions on PISA and these are not the type of questions you would see on an IQ test for a reason. The questions are kept simple on an IQ test because not everyone has had a proper education but not having a proper education doesn't mean a lack of intelligence. You could be illiterate and be highly intelligent.

This is a video where these dudes go over an old Weschler test. This is what a legitimate IQ test looks like compared to an academic test.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcTZuXjNJ5A&t=27s

Obviously there are some parts they can't do because it involves object manipulation.

[Kess]

PISA is a better indicator for a country's IQ for several reasons:

PISA is not an essentially IQ test. It aims to measure 15-year-olds’ ability to use their reading, mathematics and science knowledge and skills to meet real-life challenges.

"Counter-example #1: Thailand and UAE

Thailand scored 94 IQ and UAE scored 84 IQ as per international cherry-picked research.

But actual PISA scores are:

PISA 2018 Worldwide Ranking – average score of mathematics, science and reading
...Read more
https://factsmaps.com/pisa-2018-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-mathematics-science-reading/
For Thailand: 412 (Average), UAE: 435 (Average)

Implying IQ of 85 in Thailand and 90 in UAE."

[Supercomputer]

I heard you the first time. The sample size doesn't matter if it's not a legitimate IQ test. I looked at some of the questions on PISA and these are not the type of questions you would see on an IQ test for a reason. The questions are kept simple on an IQ test because not everyone has had a proper education but not having a proper education doesn't mean a lack of intelligence. You could be illiterate and be highly intelligent..

Irrelevant. The correlation between IQ test and PISA is .94. The data doesn't support the claim that there is a significant discrepancy between IQ tests and PISA.

https://i.postimg.cc/903zv6ps/GAms-MEv-XYAEg3cg.jpg (https://postimg.cc/6209Z1Fh)

[Supercomputer]

PISA is not an essentially IQ test. It aims to measure 15-year-olds’ ability to use their reading, mathematics and science knowledge and skills to meet real-life challenges.

Oops

https://i.postimg.cc/tJpZrNfG/Posnetek-zaslona-2024-02-15-112428.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358533470_How_it_was_gradually_discovered_that_PIS A_tests_and_IQ_tests_give_almost_identical_results #:~:text=The%20PISA%20scores%20can%20easily,IQ%201 10%2C%20and%20so%20on.




"Counter-example #1: Thailand and UAE

Thailand scored 94 IQ and UAE scored 84 IQ as per international cherry-picked research.

But actual PISA scores are:

PISA 2018 Worldwide Ranking – average score of mathematics, science and reading
...Read more
https://factsmaps.com/pisa-2018-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-mathematics-science-reading/
For Thailand: 412 (Average), UAE: 435 (Average)

Implying IQ of 85 in Thailand and 90 in UAE."

This is because standard IQ test for a given countries vary significantly from study to study. If we look at latest dataset from Lynn and Bekcer, Slovenia (my country) IQ results vary from 92 to 103 (11 points). For Serbia they vary even more drastically. From 82 to 107 (25 points). For Central American countries IQ from standard tests is around 60 and the studies are done mostly on villagers. Do you really Central America is 10 points dumber than SubSaharan Africa? PISA scores converted to IQ for Central America are around 80. Which one sounds more plausible to you for central America, 60 or 80? This variation in standard IQ test results is because participants for standard IQ test aren't selected randomly from the entire population. Sometimes they test smarter people, sometimes dumber. For countries that only have one or two studies, IQ test only aren't reliable. This is why Lynn and Becker (actual experts) also use Student Assesment studies like PISA. PISA doesn't have this issue.

[Zeno]

Oops

https://i.postimg.cc/tJpZrNfG/Posnetek-zaslona-2024-02-15-112428.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358533470_How_it_was_gradually_discovered_that_PIS A_tests_and_IQ_tests_give_almost_identical_results #:~:text=The%20PISA%20scores%20can%20easily,IQ%201 10%2C%20and%20so%20on.





This is because standard IQ test for a given countries vary significantly from study to study. If we look at latest dataset from Lynn and Bekcer, Slovenia (my country) IQ results vary from 92 to 103 (11 points). For Serbia they vary even more drastically. From 82 to 107 (25 points). For Central American countries IQ from standard tests is around 60 and the studies are done mostly on villagers. Do you really Central America is 10 points dumber than SubSaharan Africa? PISA scores converted to IQ for Central America are around 80. Which one sounds more plausible to you for central America, 60 or 80? This variation in standard IQ test results is because participants for standard IQ test aren't selected randomly from the entire population. Sometimes they test smarter people, sometimes dumber. For countries that only have one or two studies, IQ test only aren't reliable. This is why Lynn and Becker (actual experts) also use Student Assesment studies like PISA. PISA doesn't have this issue.

PISA has many other issues, which I've mentioned in very much particular detail in previous replies, which comes from the OECD itself, which is the organisation conducting it. Don't act as if there're not fallacies.

[Supercomputer]

PISA has many other issues, which I've mentioned in very much particular detail in previous replies, which comes from the OECD itself, which is the organisation conducting it. Don't act as if there're not fallacies.

No data on IQ is perfect, but I believe PISA is better than any other data for the reasons I've listed. Also you have to realize that genetics is a huge taboo socially especially when comparing how good certain countries score on mental tests. Therefor OECD itself tends to overemphasize environmental explanations and downplay genetics because of this.

[Nurzat]

I got into Mensa in college. I went to one meet up and they were crazier than I am.

I taught myself to "pass for normal" early on and I have no regrets.

I did the maximum score on their website test, which was 126 when I did it - they specifically made it to that maximum as the minimum score to pass their test is 132. then I didn't pass their test where I was in person to a test room, and they don't tell you your score, only if you passed or not.

however, a close friend and one former work colleague passed the test, though they didn't join Mensa as an organization. and a third person, an old and close friend from my home village area has formally tested above 132 though not with Mensa.

what I want to say is that neither of these three people have an intellectual interest in culture, art or literature. one is a programmer, the other is not working but has a well enough financial situation, that allows it, the last one was a researcher in a theoretical scientific field. what I want to say is that IQ alone doesn't say much about people - of the three, two are spiritual to a degree, one of which is even devout Orthodox. two are very liberal, one with a bit of a conservative pull, while one of them is almost far right but not in a nazi way, but far right economically, like anarcho-capitalist, like "screw you, make it on your own, I won't help anyone, each for himself, no pity for no one" etc, sort of uncaring character, also with an interest in eugenics etc. one of them reads a lot, but reads mostly what could be considered lower quality literature, sometimes bordering kitsch, and has a bit of a kitsch taste in art as well.

so, see, what does IQ tell you? cannot tell you if a person is kind or unkind, cannot tell you if someone is wise (I consider at least two of the three acquaintances mentioned to be not an example of wise people to the level of their IQ, not to say that they aren't wise, but they are just like average people in wisdom, which I consider based on their life choices and failures). they also aren't cultured people, like really intellectual, to have a culture of high literature, high art, essays, philosophy etc. in these regards I differ as I have an interest in these and I do read, although I have limited time due to full job, family, two kids, commute etc. so a person with a very high IQ but otherwise not cultured, not excelling in his job, not making a contribution to society and not even helping himself with that high IQ for a better life, what real advantage does that person have? not saying lower IQ people do better, no, just saying that unfortunately without proper education and culture, high IQ is just a number. personal experiences are decisive in shaping that high IQ into something you can use to improve your life, but sometimes very high IQ people are so arrogant and self-assured that they learn nothing from their experiences, because they consider themselves above everyone else because of their exceptional IQ, so sometimes they remain, ironically, naive and childish and cannot make a happy life because of their spoiled child attitude. so you need high IQ + education + self-reflection + being honest to yourself and to your flaws and learn from them + desire and drive to change, to admit your mistakes and apologize etc.

and to link it to PISA: I find the results relevant and showing the schooling level of a nation, which then reflects socially. and we should aim to much better schooling levels and that is achievable even with average and lower IQ people with the right methods. everyone can be kind and educated, no matter the IQ, we just need to create the environment for that, but it's not easy, of course, and stricter social/political systems have been better at achieving better education on average for the masses and safer schools for kids and teachers

[Zeno]

No data on IQ is perfect, but I believe PISA is better than any other data for the reasons I've listed. Also you have to realize that genetics is a huge taboo socially especially when comparing how good certain countries score on mental tests. Therefor OECD itself tends to overemphasize environmental explanations and downplay genetics because of this.

Except PISA in itself is focusing on one particular group, with a methodology which on its own showcases many parametres that show results that aren't representative.

As for genetics, don't try explaining to me that they're a subject that it's still taboo. I know that all too well already. It's just that PISA doesn't even explain that. Because, and you have to take it into consideration: PISA tests examine the entire student population, without distinctions between races. Because if that was the case, we'd know exactly the scores of each race in any OECD member that is multicultural. But we don't. We, however, have meticulous data stemming from actual IQ test studies.