Caucasian Iberians on G25: Ahiska Turks and eastern Georgians

[axlredneck]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Georgian_States_Colchis_and_Iberia_%28600-150BC%29-en.svg/1165px-Georgian_States_Colchis_and_Iberia_%28600-150BC%29-en.svg.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Map_of_Persian_Armenia_and_its_surroundings.svg/1280px-Map_of_Persian_Armenia_and_its_surroundings.svg.pn g


In Greco-Roman geography, Iberia was an exonym for the Georgian kingdom of Kartli, known after its core province, which during Classical Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages was a significant monarchy in the Caucasus, either as an independent state or as a dependent of larger empires, notably the Sassanid and Roman empires. Iberia, centered on present-day Eastern Georgia, was bordered by Colchis in the west, Caucasian Albania in the east and Armenia in the south.

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/ESefGIaCI24

https://youtu.be/E0jhUBSizf2k


Meskhetian Turks are a subgroup of ethnic Turkish people formerly inhabiting the Meskheti region of Georgia, along the border with Turkey. The Turkish presence in Meskheti began with the Ottoman military expedition of 1578.

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/VJCQC4Q/IMG-20231224-191729.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3YPnC8v/IMG-20231224-191645.jpg


Turkish_Ahiska,0.1079374,0.1276848,-0.052588,-0.0472861,-0.0336685,-0.0088097,0.0048516,-0.0064801,-0.0465016,-0.0117451,0.0011,0.0090144,-0.0154432,0.003042,-0.0001591,-0.0141246,0.0018883,-0.0022057,-0.0042621,0.006712,0.0041719,-0.0003002,-0.0009313,-0.0045873,-0.0018809
pre-Turkish,0.109451643,0.1357406,-0.056552029,-0.049068857,-0.034488557,-0.008291629,0.0068561,-0.005111914,-0.050148643,-0.013574357,0.001467643,0.010206971,-0.017177886,0.003082171,0.000455457,-0.016216343,0.002133014,-0.002663443,-0.005083643,0.0081568,0.004986229,-0.000624957,-0.00075,-0.0049253,-0.002061414
Turkish,0.0973377,0.0712942,-0.0248398,-0.0348068,-0.0279281,-0.0124362,-0.0091799,-0.0160574,-0.0209723,0.0010597,-0.0014735,0.0006664,-0.0033004,0.0027608,-0.004461,0.0005176,0.0001753,0.0009985,0.0014887,-0.0034016,-0.0015284,0.0019731,-0.0022004,-0.0022213,-0.0006173

[axlredneck]

I made a new east Georgian average with the pre-Turkish base of Ahiska Turks and Georgians from Kartli and Kakheti.

https://i.ibb.co/Tqnwff9/IMG-20231224-191746.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Km0TcGx/IMG-20231224-191707.jpg


East_Georgian_18,0.1074335,0.1324695,-0.0559133,-0.0465927,-0.0366804,-0.0080008,0.0063718,-0.0050115,-0.0504739,-0.0153678,0.0023205,0.0092221,-0.0162727,0.0033209,-0.0004213,-0.0130221,0.004608,-0.0026192,-0.0050465,0.0080269,0.0067157,0.0019625,-0.0003184,-0.0043128,-0.0007803
Colchian,0.11009464,0.13358239,-0.05754964,-0.04764413,-0.04022328,-0.00797907,0.01190018,-0.0057431,-0.06708308,-0.02336725,0.00043173,0.01381844,-0.02920175,0.00656561,0.00321475,-0.02657108,0.00943529,-0.00575406,-0.01091213,0.0187863,0.01312288,0.00303371,-0.00087708,-0.00926565,-0.00241103
Armenian,0.105749621,0.135908747,-0.053605135,-0.048194448,-0.032398589,-0.008904035,0.002259004,-0.002913213,-0.035082699,-0.007885934,0.004315525,0.004767131,-0.003479377,-4.09455E-05,-0.003931295,0.000471115,-0.000346127,0.000500572,0.000800166,-0.002747956,0.000399953,0.000850621,0.000255616,0. 000622897,0.000933613
Dusadh,0.0417353,-0.0930903,-0.1678183,0.121449,-0.0694487,0.0670267,-0.0031333,0.0118457,0.049904,0.034382,-0.005088,-0.000849,-0.0026757,-4.6e-05,-0.0088673,-0.0039333,0.0097353,0.0002537,-0.0013407,0.004377,-0.001664,0.0010303,0.0009447,0.001446,-0.0037523
Surui,0.0578222,-0.3174546,0.1171336,0.10672,-0.1138058,-0.015395,-0.3258188,-0.3916914,-0.0175482,-0.020775,0.0020784,-0.0046758,0.0023192,0.0358646,-0.0134908,0.0005834,0.0109002,-0.0012416,0.0002514,0.0012756,-0.0035436,0.012662,-0.0067784,-0.0074466,-0.009149

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/MgmM7H2/IMG-20231224-191803.jpg

[axlredneck]

East Georgian Y-lines (n=203)

J-CTS6804 x16
J-Y12378 x12
J-Y11200 x5
J-Y9268 x3
J-Z534 x2
J-M205 x2
J-Z7671
J-Z6064
J-M92
J-L26
J-FGC16096
J-Z387
J-Y4349
J-Z7706
J-Z6267
J-Y13534
J-Y13341
J-M67
J-M102

J-Z1842 x3
J-P58 x3
J-Z1884 x2

R-Z2103 x31
R-V1636
R-PH155
R-M478
R-L23

G-PH1780 x32
G-Z6653 x26
G-M377
G-Z6764
G-Y24446
G-Z6284
G-Y12277
G-PF3147
G-M406
G1-CTS11562
G1-BY1124
G-M342
G-PF3147
G-FGC34725

I-Y16419 x11

R-Z93 x10

T-M70 x2
T-L208
T-L162
T-Y11151

L-Y16187
L-M27
L-Y6266
L-M349

E-M35 x3
E-CTS693 x2
E-V13
E-M84

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/BCr4xq9/IMG-20231224-201322.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/NpqtZx5/IMG-20231224-201310.jpg


Georgian_Meskheti_2,0.104148,0.137604,-0.058265,-0.0541025,-0.034622,-0.011016,0.011163,-0.004846,-0.052665,-0.01549,0.0017865,0.008692,-0.0151635,0.00406,-0.002986,-0.0086185,0.013299,-0.0025335,-0.0002515,0.00544,0.005428,0.000742,-0.001664,-0.0076515,-0.0005985
Georgian,0.1116603,0.1359794,-0.0575864,-0.0498066,-0.0404382,-0.0070001,0.0114919,-0.0064612,-0.0634843,-0.0210664,0.0010879,0.0120343,-0.0262684,0.0034544,0.0035152,-0.0212276,0.012947,-0.0061825,-0.0095279,0.0174584,0.012266,0.0020156,-0.0002588,-0.0106037,-0.0025386
Armenian,0.1013981,0.1365234,-0.0581346,-0.0533738,-0.0292148,-0.0141819,0.0060501,-0.0045234,-0.0342935,-0.0041828,0.0030887,0.0034941,-0.0066624,0.002351,-0.0071314,0.0030842,0.011263,0.0007405,0.0039253,-0.0024648,0.0019606,0.000459,-0.001946,-0.0077475,0.0018214
Noise,-1.084070855,0.812551507,-0.260110495,-1.307740275,0.067423591,-0.223090884,1.204771006,0.317657676,-1.936938945,-1.44532458,-0.148811744,0.471664321,0.634484584,0.581552591,-0.590758073,0.217528232,0.609105047,0.091028966,1. 272098583,-1.020903111,-0.835536801,-0.246412758,-0.281902295,0.752874457,-0.120308622

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/p37CquALYro

https://youtu.be/3dABetPnEfQ

Eastern Georgians from Azerbaijan, the Ingiloys, are indigenous to Saingilo, a cultural and historical region of Georgia located in the northwest of present-day Azerbaijan. They are Sunni Muslims.

[Leto]

https://i.ibb.co/VJCQC4Q/IMG-20231224-191729.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3YPnC8v/IMG-20231224-191645.jpg


Turkish_Ahiska,0.1079374,0.1276848,-0.052588,-0.0472861,-0.0336685,-0.0088097,0.0048516,-0.0064801,-0.0465016,-0.0117451,0.0011,0.0090144,-0.0154432,0.003042,-0.0001591,-0.0141246,0.0018883,-0.0022057,-0.0042621,0.006712,0.0041719,-0.0003002,-0.0009313,-0.0045873,-0.0018809
pre-Turkish,0.109451643,0.1357406,-0.056552029,-0.049068857,-0.034488557,-0.008291629,0.0068561,-0.005111914,-0.050148643,-0.013574357,0.001467643,0.010206971,-0.017177886,0.003082171,0.000455457,-0.016216343,0.002133014,-0.002663443,-0.005083643,0.0081568,0.004986229,-0.000624957,-0.00075,-0.0049253,-0.002061414
Turkish,0.0973377,0.0712942,-0.0248398,-0.0348068,-0.0279281,-0.0124362,-0.0091799,-0.0160574,-0.0209723,0.0010597,-0.0014735,0.0006664,-0.0033004,0.0027608,-0.004461,0.0005176,0.0001753,0.0009985,0.0014887,-0.0034016,-0.0015284,0.0019731,-0.0022004,-0.0022213,-0.0006173
Interesting. And Konya is like 20% Medieval Turkic, isn't it.

Iberia is apparently closer to Armenia than Colchis.

[axlredneck]

Interesting. And Konya is like 20% Medieval Turkic, isn't it.

Right!

[Leto]

This woman has a Meskhetian Turkish father and a Gujarati/Marathi Indian mother. Her father is basically 100% Georgian according to this
https://i.ibb.co/P12wT8v/half-indian-half-ahiskali-meskhetian-turk-results-v0-x0lz7m02clkc1.jpg

[axlredneck]

This woman has a Meskhetian Turkish father and a Gujarati/Marathi Indian mother. Her father is basically 100% Georgian according to this
https://i.ibb.co/P12wT8v/half-indian-half-ahiskali-meskhetian-turk-results-v0-x0lz7m02clkc1.jpg

Very unique!

[Frowning Man]

What do Meskhetians and Georgians have to do with it? They have nothing Georgian left. There are practically no real Meskhetians left, most of them were slaughtered in wars, their lands were deserted and were inhabited by Turks and Armenians, and the small part that remained alive mixed heavily with the Armenians. They are almost no longer Georgians; there are a lot of former Armenians and others there.

[Kess]

Distance to: kesseras_simulated_g25_scaled
0.04393156 Turkish
0.05241323 Turkish_Ahiska
0.05783153 Armenian
0.05803367 East_Georgian_18
0.06202228 pre-Turkish
0.06429392 Armenian
0.06617964 Georgian_Meskheti_2
0.07492776 Georgian
0.07678894 Colchian
0.31242640 Dusadh
0.69413423 Surui
4.09129458 Noise

Target: kesseras_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 2.6401% / 0.02640092
62.4 Turkish
30.0 Colchian
6.4 Armenian
1.2 Dusadh

[axlredneck]

What do Meskhetians and Georgians have to do with it? They have nothing Georgian left. There are practically no real Meskhetians left, most of them were slaughtered in wars, their lands were deserted and were inhabited by Turks and Armenians, and the small part that remained alive mixed heavily with the Armenians. They are almost no longer Georgians; there are a lot of former Armenians and others there.

What are you talking about? Maybe the modern inhabitants of Meskheti don't have much in common with the former Meskhetians, but Meskhetian Turks are half Georgian and half Armenian (just like Kakhetians and Kartlians), excluding their minor Turkish ancestry.

[Leto]

What are you talking about? Maybe the modern inhabitants of Meskheti don't have much in common with the former Meskhetians, but Meskhetian Turks are half Georgian and half Armenian (just like Kakhetians and Kartlians), excluding their minor Turkish ancestry.
He believes most Georgians that are not Colchians are some kind of a mixture of Georgians, Armenians, North Caucasians and even Iranians. I think there must've been differences between Colchis and Iberia even a thousand years ago. And let's not forget the capital of Georgia, Tbilisi is located in Iberia, not Colchis.

[Frowning Man]

He believes most Georgians that are not Colchians are some kind of a mixture of Georgians, Armenians, North Caucasians and even Iranians. I think there must've been differences between Colchis and Iberia even a thousand years ago. And let's not forget the capital of Georgia, Tbilisi is located in Iberia, not Colchis.

Due to the fact that the capital is in the southeast, the southeast has become very mixed and not Georgian. The southeast of Georgia has absolutely nothing Georgian. West of Georgia = real Georgia and Georgians, mono-ethnic region 99% only Georgians, closed. In the east, real Georgians who are not mixed with others live only in villages, away from large cities. But fortunately, people with Western Georgian roots in Georgia are the numerical majority. The south of Georgia (Meskhians and Javakhs) is generally terrible, there are absolutely no Georgians left there. Among the Meskhs, only a few retained the purity of Georgian blood.

[Leto]

Due to the fact that the capital is in the southeast, the southeast has become very mixed and not Georgian. The southeast of Georgia has absolutely nothing Georgian. West of Georgia = real Georgia and Georgians, mono-ethnic region 99% only Georgians, closed. In the east, real Georgians who are not mixed with others live only in villages, away from large cities. But fortunately, people with Western Georgian roots in Georgia are the numerical majority. The south of Georgia (Meskhians and Javakhs) is generally terrible, there are absolutely no Georgians left there. Among the Meskhs, only a few retained the purity of Georgian blood.
Are you not in Tbilisi now?

According to the census Kakheti is 85% Georgian, 10% Azeri and they almost never mix. Practically no Armenians there.

[Frowning Man]

Are you not in Tbilisi now?

According to the census Kakheti is 85% Georgian, 10% Azeri and they almost never mix. Practically no Armenians there.
I live in Russia.

Among Eastern Georgians there are a lot of people whose mother, grandmother or great-grandmother is Armenian. They mixed quite actively with them. There are also quite a few simply former Armenians, that is, assimilated, who took Georgian surnames, for example Somekhishvili, which means Child of an Armenian. And in general, there are a lot of Armenians living in Georgia, especially near Tbilisi, and in the 18th century, when the Georgian population of Tbilisi was massacred by Aga Mohammed Khan, there was a massive influx of Armenians there. They mixed with Azerbaijanis less often, but it also happens, for example, I have about five Georgian friends whose mothers are Azerbaijani. But there are more conservative residents in the east who do not mix under any circumstances, but such people often live in villages and are quite unfriendly and conservative people. I, I want to say, among the indigenous eastern Georgians, whose ancestors lived near the cities, there are quite a few mixed people, so the southeast is a bad place, where I think there is almost nothing Georgian. Only the west and northeast have preserved original Georgia.

[Leto]

I live in Russia.
I thought you'd fled Russia when the mobilization was announced. In fact thousands of ethnic Russians have moved to Georgia.


Among Eastern Georgians there are a lot of people whose mother, grandmother or great-grandmother is Armenian. They mixed quite actively with them. There are also quite a few simply former Armenians, that is, assimilated, who took Georgian surnames, for example Somekhishvili, which means Child of an Armenian. And in general, there are a lot of Armenians living in Georgia, especially near Tbilisi, and in the 18th century, when the Georgian population of Tbilisi was massacred by Aga Mohammed Khan, there was a massive influx of Armenians there. They mixed with Azerbaijanis less often, but it also happens, for example, I have about five Georgian friends whose mothers are Azerbaijani. But there are more conservative residents in the east who do not mix under any circumstances, but such people often live in villages and are quite unfriendly and conservative people. I, I want to say, among the indigenous eastern Georgians, whose ancestors lived near the cities, there are quite a few mixed people, so the southeast is a bad place, where I think there is almost nothing Georgian. Only the west and northeast have preserved original Georgia.
Well, assimilation is a normal thing, if they have adopted the language and culture, I see nothing wrong with that. I'm sure most of those people in Southern or Eastern Georgia are just as patriotic as the Westerners. Stop stigmatizing them as armyashki ;)

[Frowning Man]

I thought you'd fled Russia when the mobilization was announced. In fact thousands of ethnic Russians have moved to Georgia.

Well, assimilation is a normal thing, if they have adopted the language and culture, I see nothing wrong with that. I'm sure most of those people in Southern or Eastern Georgia are just as patriotic as the Westerners. Stop stigmatizing them as armyashki ;)

No, I didn't even leave Russia when mobilization took place. I'm too lazy and too used to cold Russia, minus 20, minus 30 is already in my blood) Anything above 15 is already hot)

Funny observation. Do you remember I wrote about the mass migration of Armenians to Eastern Georgia in the 18th century? And the east became different, changed. Now there was a mass migration of Slavs, it seems that the east of Georgia will change for the third time and become different. Ahahahahaha

[interes]

I thought you'd fled Russia when the mobilization was announced. In fact thousands of ethnic Russians have moved to Georgia.

Well, assimilation is a normal thing, if they have adopted the language and culture, I see nothing wrong with that. I'm sure most of those people in Southern or Eastern Georgia are just as patriotic as the Westerners. Stop stigmatizing them as armyashki ;)

kakhetians are mixed iranians , they ar not armenians . but theya are darkest :) look like north east caucasian dag people.
iberians are more khevsurian and tushins who are northe east georgians they are lighter but not than west georgiasn ( imeretins or gurians)

[celticdragongod]

https://i.ibb.co/VJCQC4Q/IMG-20231224-191729.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3YPnC8v/IMG-20231224-191645.jpg


Turkish_Ahiska,0.1079374,0.1276848,-0.052588,-0.0472861,-0.0336685,-0.0088097,0.0048516,-0.0064801,-0.0465016,-0.0117451,0.0011,0.0090144,-0.0154432,0.003042,-0.0001591,-0.0141246,0.0018883,-0.0022057,-0.0042621,0.006712,0.0041719,-0.0003002,-0.0009313,-0.0045873,-0.0018809
pre-Turkish,0.109451643,0.1357406,-0.056552029,-0.049068857,-0.034488557,-0.008291629,0.0068561,-0.005111914,-0.050148643,-0.013574357,0.001467643,0.010206971,-0.017177886,0.003082171,0.000455457,-0.016216343,0.002133014,-0.002663443,-0.005083643,0.0081568,0.004986229,-0.000624957,-0.00075,-0.0049253,-0.002061414
Turkish,0.0973377,0.0712942,-0.0248398,-0.0348068,-0.0279281,-0.0124362,-0.0091799,-0.0160574,-0.0209723,0.0010597,-0.0014735,0.0006664,-0.0033004,0.0027608,-0.004461,0.0005176,0.0001753,0.0009985,0.0014887,-0.0034016,-0.0015284,0.0019731,-0.0022004,-0.0022213,-0.0006173

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.16991207 Turkish
0.18535049 Turkish_Ahiska
0.19005581 pre-Turkish

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 16.9877% / 0.16987704
95.6 Turkish
4.4 Turkish_Ahiska

[celticdragongod]

I made a new east Georgian average with the pre-Turkish base of Ahiska Turks and Georgians from Kartli and Kakheti.

https://i.ibb.co/Tqnwff9/IMG-20231224-191746.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Km0TcGx/IMG-20231224-191707.jpg


East_Georgian_18,0.1074335,0.1324695,-0.0559133,-0.0465927,-0.0366804,-0.0080008,0.0063718,-0.0050115,-0.0504739,-0.0153678,0.0023205,0.0092221,-0.0162727,0.0033209,-0.0004213,-0.0130221,0.004608,-0.0026192,-0.0050465,0.0080269,0.0067157,0.0019625,-0.0003184,-0.0043128,-0.0007803
Colchian,0.11009464,0.13358239,-0.05754964,-0.04764413,-0.04022328,-0.00797907,0.01190018,-0.0057431,-0.06708308,-0.02336725,0.00043173,0.01381844,-0.02920175,0.00656561,0.00321475,-0.02657108,0.00943529,-0.00575406,-0.01091213,0.0187863,0.01312288,0.00303371,-0.00087708,-0.00926565,-0.00241103
Armenian,0.105749621,0.135908747,-0.053605135,-0.048194448,-0.032398589,-0.008904035,0.002259004,-0.002913213,-0.035082699,-0.007885934,0.004315525,0.004767131,-0.003479377,-4.09455E-05,-0.003931295,0.000471115,-0.000346127,0.000500572,0.000800166,-0.002747956,0.000399953,0.000850621,0.000255616,0. 000622897,0.000933613
Dusadh,0.0417353,-0.0930903,-0.1678183,0.121449,-0.0694487,0.0670267,-0.0031333,0.0118457,0.049904,0.034382,-0.005088,-0.000849,-0.0026757,-4.6e-05,-0.0088673,-0.0039333,0.0097353,0.0002537,-0.0013407,0.004377,-0.001664,0.0010303,0.0009447,0.001446,-0.0037523
Surui,0.0578222,-0.3174546,0.1171336,0.10672,-0.1138058,-0.015395,-0.3258188,-0.3916914,-0.0175482,-0.020775,0.0020784,-0.0046758,0.0023192,0.0358646,-0.0134908,0.0005834,0.0109002,-0.0012416,0.0002514,0.0012756,-0.0035436,0.012662,-0.0067784,-0.0074466,-0.009149

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.18199499 Armenian
0.18977281 East_Georgian_18
0.20317250 Colchian
0.37169152 Dusadh
0.71955327 Surui

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 17.9427% / 0.17942653
95.6 Armenian
4.2 Surui
0.2 Dusadh

[celticdragongod]

https://i.ibb.co/BCr4xq9/IMG-20231224-201322.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/NpqtZx5/IMG-20231224-201310.jpg


Georgian_Meskheti_2,0.104148,0.137604,-0.058265,-0.0541025,-0.034622,-0.011016,0.011163,-0.004846,-0.052665,-0.01549,0.0017865,0.008692,-0.0151635,0.00406,-0.002986,-0.0086185,0.013299,-0.0025335,-0.0002515,0.00544,0.005428,0.000742,-0.001664,-0.0076515,-0.0005985
Georgian,0.1116603,0.1359794,-0.0575864,-0.0498066,-0.0404382,-0.0070001,0.0114919,-0.0064612,-0.0634843,-0.0210664,0.0010879,0.0120343,-0.0262684,0.0034544,0.0035152,-0.0212276,0.012947,-0.0061825,-0.0095279,0.0174584,0.012266,0.0020156,-0.0002588,-0.0106037,-0.0025386
Armenian,0.1013981,0.1365234,-0.0581346,-0.0533738,-0.0292148,-0.0141819,0.0060501,-0.0045234,-0.0342935,-0.0041828,0.0030887,0.0034941,-0.0066624,0.002351,-0.0071314,0.0030842,0.011263,0.0007405,0.0039253,-0.0024648,0.0019606,0.000459,-0.001946,-0.0077475,0.0018214
Noise,-1.084070855,0.812551507,-0.260110495,-1.307740275,0.067423591,-0.223090884,1.204771006,0.317657676,-1.936938945,-1.44532458,-0.148811744,0.471664321,0.634484584,0.581552591,-0.590758073,0.217528232,0.609105047,0.091028966,1. 272098583,-1.020903111,-0.835536801,-0.246412758,-0.281902295,0.752874457,-0.120308622

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.19048545 Armenian
0.19727604 Georgian_Meskheti_2
0.20171971 Georgian
4.15143742 Noise

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 19.0485% / 0.19048545
100.0 Armenian

[axlredneck]

Result from Artvin
https://i.ibb.co/mSx98JN/IMG-20240611-152939.jpg

[axlredneck]

Result from Ardahan

https://i.ibb.co/xmYxWdd/IMG-20240617-151132.jpg

Target: Ahıska: Posof_Ardahan
Distance: 0.0188% / 0.01877783
98.6 West_Eurasian
1.4 East_Eurasian

[Anatolya]

Distance to: Anatolya_scaled
0.04299536 Turkish_Ahiska
0.04836920 East_Georgian_18

[Vesta]

You are mistaken about this question. Their genetic code was formed long before the appearance of the Armenians. They have a very clear connection with the Bronze Age, dating back to the Kura-Araks culture.