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Östsvensk
12-30-2023, 09:00 AM
'Let's Just Be Albanians': A New Movement In Kosovo Calls On Muslims To Abandon Islam

https://gdb.rferl.org/10040000-0aff-0242-9fdd-08da6185272b_cx1_cy0_cw98_w1023_r1_s.jpg

Kosovo's population of around 2 million people is thought to be about 93 percent ethnic Albanian, an overwhelming majority of whom are Muslim, along with a small number of Bosniaks and ethnic Turks.

PRISTINA -- Vesel Lekaj insists that he and his provocatively named Movement for the Abandonment of the Islamic Faith don't oppose the religion's adherents. After all, he says, he and many of its other initiators are from Muslim families.

The real target, he told RFE/RL's Balkan Service, is the religious extremism in any form that "has been operating in Kosovo for more than two decades."

"We, as a sign of dissatisfaction with this phenomenon -- that is, extreme and political Islam, but also with Serbian Orthodox extremism -- have taken a measure...[with the aim] of stopping it," Lekaj told a meeting last month of the movement's founding council in the town of Decan, in Kosovo's mountainous west.

While there has been indignation from the local Islamic community council, and an otherwise muted public response in this overwhelmingly Muslim country, it is hard to know if Lekaj should be taken at his word.

District prosecutors have launched an investigation to determine whether Lekaj and others involved with the group have committed the crime of incitement to hatred or religious intolerance. "All those statements are being analyzed," said Shkodran Nikci, a spokesman for the prosecutor's office in Peja, which has jurisdiction over Decan. "So [we're investigating] what their aim is and, at the same time, whether there are elements of a criminal offense in their content."

Article 141 of Kosovo's Criminal Code, adopted in 2019, allows for fines and up to five years in prison for anyone who "spreads hatred, discord, and intolerance" on religious or other grounds in a "manner that is likely to disturb the public order."

At its inaugural meeting on October 20, the group gathered under the slogan, "Let's Just Be Albanians." An Albanian TV reporter described the three dozen or so supporters -- all of them men -- as "personalities from different fields from all over Kosovo."

One of the speakers called the movement an effort to stop those who embrace "anti-national values." Albanians' only true religion, other speakers suggested, was "Albanianism."

Speaking to RFE/RL, Lekaj declined to say who he believed was guilty of "Islamic religious extremism" or its Orthodox analogue. He said the movement was still in its consultative phase and had not yet established a platform.

'Finished' With Islam

Kosovo's population of around 2 million people is thought to be about 93 percent ethnic Albanian, an overwhelming majority of whom are Muslim, along with a small number of Bosniaks and ethnic Turks. There are also around 100,000 ethnic Serbs, most of whom are Orthodox Christians concentrated in the north and south of the country.

Lekaj describes himself and some of his nascent movement's founders as former Muslims who have "finished" with Islam. "We are no longer on that path, and we should talk [openly] about it," he said.

The local Muslim community in Decan reacted angrily as news spread of the founding council of the Movement for the Abandonment of the Islamic Faith. The Islamic Community of Kosovo (KBI) in Decan expressed "deep indignation" and accused the group's founders of having "no good intentions for our society." It called them agents of "divisive elements" and accused them of inciting "interreligious hatred, as well as religious and human intolerance."

KBI cited centuries of painful history but said Decan was "known for unification and nondisruption," adding bluntly, "Stop whining." In some Muslim countries, apostasy can be punished by death, although legal executions are very rare. Islamic scholars frequently disagree over what constitutes the abandonment of Islamic faith in thought, words, and deeds.

Kosovar Grand Mufti Naim Ternava called the movement's initiators "remnants of the communist-atheist system" that dominated then-Yugoslavia and most of the eastern bloc in the Soviet era. He argued that the Islamic community had contributed to Kosovo's war of independence from the "Serbian regime in the 1990s" and provided a "purpose for patriotism."

Lekaj responds casually to prosecutors' investigation of his movement's activities, saying it was "normal" and pledged to cooperate if he or others are invited for questioning. "We are a secular state, we're not an Islamic state nor a theocracy," he said. "We stand by our words in the voluntary statements we made."

'Tragicomic Situation'

Legal and sociological experts in Kosovo interviewed by RFE/RL's Balkan Service suggested the movement's proclamations so far were likely to be protected by the constitutional right to free speech.

Ehat Miftaraj, executive director of the nongovernmental Kosovo Law Institute, said that while it's difficult to recognize motives without knowing more about the founders' backgrounds, "based on what we've heard and seen, I doubt whether this can be considered hate speech."

Ismail Hasani, a sociologist of religion in Pristina, says religious choice is everyone's right but called the movement's initiative on abandoning Islam "a tragicomic situation." He says he doesn't think that the Movement for the Abandonment of the Islamic Faith is serious. "What might be hidden behind it? Absolutely nothing," Hasani said, "specifically because it's a group of people who -- frustrated by the situation, dissatisfied with the general societal trends...with the fundamental values of human society -- issue an invitation that really has no meaning."

Hasani also wonders aloud about the investigation into the group. "Ultimately, this is not a movement against religion. It's not a movement against Islam either, because all those [organizers] -- at least the ones I know, I think the majority of them -- have a familial background in the Islamic faith."

The U.S. State Department's most recent report on religious freedom cited the Kosovar Constitution's prohibition on religion-based discrimination and guarantee of religious freedom. But it prodded Pristina over enforcement and noted that laws still had not been passed in Kosovo to allow religious groups to acquire legal status, creating obstacles to their effective functioning.

Written by Andy Heil based on reporting by Bekim Bislimi of RFE/RL's Balkan Service

https://www.rferl.org/a/kosovo-movement-abandon-islam/32667829.html

Victor
12-30-2023, 09:05 AM
Abandoning Islam is good, but abandoning it for Tribalism is cringe.

Your Old Comrade
12-30-2023, 09:18 AM
Then become Christian. It's not like there are no Christian Albanians. The closest step would be to convert to calvinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism).

rothaer
12-30-2023, 09:59 AM
A good thing. Could even be a role model for others, particularly on the Balkans with religion-fuelled conflicts.


Then become Christian. It's not like there are no Christian Albanians. The closest step would be to convert to calvinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism).

Why at all join any supernatural belief/superstition?

Your Old Comrade
12-30-2023, 11:29 AM
A good thing. Could even be a role model for others, particularly on the Balkans with religion-fuelled conflicts.



Why at all join any supernatural belief/superstition?

At least it's something.

Tooting Carmen
12-30-2023, 12:40 PM
Abandoning religion is one thing. The trouble is that it is usually replaced by the secular cults of hip hop, consumerism and worship of technology.

DamCz
02-08-2024, 04:37 PM
A good thing. Could even be a role model for others, particularly on the Balkans with religion-fuelled conflicts.



Why at all join any supernatural belief/superstition?

Many conflicts in the Balkans are not fuelled by religion actually, for example there is no conflict between Christian
and Muslim Albanians. In fact, the Serbs killed 377 Albanian Catholic civilians in the village Meje in Western Kosovo during the 90s



The executions occurred in the village of Meja near the town of Gjakova. The victims were pulled from refugee convoys at a checkpoint in Meja and their families were ordered to proceed to Albania. Men and boys were separated and then executed by the road.[4][5] It is one of the largest massacres in the Kosovo War.[6] Many of the bodies of the victims were found in the Batajnica mass graves. The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia has convicted several Serbian army and police officers for their involvement.[7]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meja_massacre

Orthodox Albanians also support Muslim Albanians against Serbs.

dviz
02-08-2024, 04:40 PM
They can become Christian. They renounced Christianity quite late, they can come back.

Half of the Transylvanian Romanians were Catholic (Greek Catholic) 100 years ago. Now all of them are Orthodox.

Dušan
02-08-2024, 05:13 PM
They can become Christian. They renounced Christianity quite late, they can come back.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT-zmlrpA4k

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
02-08-2024, 05:17 PM
Abandoning religion is one thing. The trouble is that it is usually replaced by the secular cults of hip hop, consumerism and worship of technology.

I'm sure that most hip-hop listeners, consumerists and technology fans are religious or at least believers. You sound as if being religious prevents you from having shitty taste in music or from owning an iPhone.

~Elizabeth~
02-08-2024, 05:17 PM
I'd like everyone to be non-Abrahamic Heathens like me.

Carpatz
02-08-2024, 05:32 PM
They can become Christian. They renounced Christianity quite late, they can come back.

Half of the Transylvanian Romanians were Catholic (Greek Catholic) 100 years ago. Now all of them are Orthodox.

You have to remember though that this happened because the communists made it illegal to practice, making only the Securitate run state church legitimate. Not that it matters much in the end, as Eastern rite Catholicism is not that different liturgically from Orthodoxy. But it must be remembered that this conversion to Orthodoxy was forceful, and that many legitimate clergy of both Orthodoxy and Catholicism were imprisoned, to be replaced by commie agents. It explains the church corruption at higher levels that persists to this day.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Greco-catolici_Romania_%281930%29.png

DamCz
02-08-2024, 05:40 PM
Albanians were Catholic and Orthodox for hundreds of years, mostly converted to due to high taxes and impositions. The
towns mainly became Muslim early on. In Western Kosova / Plains of Dukagjin the countryside was still Christian Albanian in the 16th century. Toplica area, north/east of Kosovo, had Orthodox Albanians. There were Orthodox Albanian churches there. Northern Albania was mainly Catholic until the 18th century at least I believe. There were also Orthodox Albanians in Kosova and Macedonia. There were also crypto-Christians and many families converted late and have memories of being Christians.

Carpatz
02-08-2024, 06:10 PM
I'd like everyone to be non-Abrahamic Heathens like me.


Politics: Far Right + Pro-Choice

Does your heathen god demand human sacrifice?

~Elizabeth~
02-08-2024, 06:25 PM
Does your heathen god demand human sacrifice?

No human or animal sacrifice and no circumcision either.

DamCz
02-11-2024, 03:44 PM
No human or animal sacrifice and no circumcision either.

I blame the Turks for even bringing that religion to us, now we got to also deal with these serbo-chetniks and their mythical serbo-chetnik fairytale history, taking advantage of us being muslims, they have taken over wikipedia on balkan history
with their invented fairytale crap . they also claim some kind of conflict muslim vs christians yet there has never been such
conflict among Albanians with different religions. That is of course because it is all invented by these people. Just like their
so called history is just an invention that is not supported by historical evidence.Their lies and propaganda has reached every
corner in the world.

Nurzat
02-11-2024, 04:44 PM
I am an Atheist but I have an interest in Islam.

it would have been interesting to be Muslim and Eastern European, if Moldovans would have become Muslim under Ottoman rule, it would have been interesting also in case Romanians (Wallachians) wouldn't have become, so it would have increased the chances of Moldovans keeping to themselves and have their own country (and I don't refer to Rep. of Moldova, which doesn't even lie in the proper Moldovan historical space (between Carpathians and Prut river).

Albanians won't give up Islam anyway. but the Balkans might have been a less complicated and divided place if we would have all become Muslims under the Turks. too bad the Turks didn't have any interest in converting us xD

Avicenna
02-11-2024, 05:38 PM
I am an Atheist but I have an interest in Islam.

it would have been interesting to be Muslim and Eastern European, if Moldovans would have become Muslim under Ottoman rule, it would have been interesting also in case Romanians (Wallachians) wouldn't have become, so it would have increased the chances of Moldovans keeping to themselves and have their own country (and I don't refer to Rep. of Moldova, which doesn't even lie in the proper Moldovan historical space (between Carpathians and Prut river).

Albanians won't give up Islam anyway. but the Balkans might have been a less complicated and divided place if we would have all become Muslims under the Turks. too bad the Turks didn't have any interest in converting us xD

This trend about "our forefathers were x so now I'm x as well" makes no sense. You follow a path in which you deem it's the truth. I know so called Muslim born individuals whose ancestors converted to Islam at the earliest times who have gone astray whilst I know pure blooded Anglo Saxon Englishman's whose ancestors probably were involved in the crusaders who are more righteous and on the right path than many of born Muslims. Anyone can be a Muslim, you don't need to abandon your culture to do this . This is a massive misconception.

Labriego
02-11-2024, 05:41 PM
No human or animal sacrifice and no circumcision either.

Then your paganism is posturing.

DamCz
02-12-2024, 06:00 AM
From a Kosovar Albanian back in 1651:



Another report, made by the parish priest of Prizren, Gregor Mazrreku, in 1651, described a very similar request: ‘Some of the men (and there are very many of these) say: “We are Christians in our hearts, we have only changed our religious affiliation to get out of paying taxes which the Muslims imposed on us” and for that reason they say... “dear Reverend, come and give us confession and Holy Communion secretly.” But I have not done this up till now, nor does it seem right to me


Rebels, Believers, Survivors Studies In The History Of The Albanians Malcolm Noel ( 2020) (https://archive.org/details/rebels-believers-survivors-studies-in-the-history-of-the-albanians-malcolm-noel-2020/page/61/mode/1up?q=gregor)


Once you start reading these type of sources from that time, one also starts seeing how the South Slavic version of history when it comes to Muslims in the Balkans is completely false. Especially the Serb. They are aggressive propagandists. That guy who shot up that mosque in New Zealand, you can blame Serbs for of course. He was even playing Serb music when he did.


Of course poor guy , before he shot up the mosque was not told how the Serbs in the battle of Kosovo 1448 turned on the Turkish side:



In September 1448, Hunyadi led his forces across the Danube and camped them in Serbia next to Kovin, just outside the Serbian capital of Smederevo. For a full month the Hungarians stayed encamped awaiting their German, Wallachians, Bohemian and Albanian allies.[19] The Albanian army under Skanderbeg was delayed as it was prevented from linking with Hunyadi's army by the Ottomans and their allies.[19][20] It is believed that the Albanian army was delayed by Serbian despot Đurađ Branković, whose army occupied the mountain passes on the Serbian-Albanian border and by a Venetian attack on northern Albania.[18] The Serbs had declined joining Hunyadi's forces following an earlier truce with the Turks.[21] Branković's exact role is disputed.[22][23][24] As a result, Skanderbeg ravaged and pillaged Branković's domains as punishment for deserting the Christian cause.[20][25] Hunyadi decided not to wait for Skanderbeg and his reinforcements to open the battle.[3]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo_(1448)



:lol:

Dandelion
02-12-2024, 08:16 AM
Then become Christian. It's not like there are no Christian Albanians. The closest step would be to convert to calvinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism).

Kefah Allush did this succesfully. He's a Palestinian from secular Muslim background who converted to Dutch Reformed Christianity. I loved his documentaries about forgotten communities in the Low Countries (Oases in de Lage Landen).

~Elizabeth~
02-12-2024, 08:22 AM
Kefah Allush did this succesfully. He's a Palestinian from secular Muslim background who converted to Dutch Reformed Christianity. I loved his documentaries about forgotten communities in the Low Countries (Oases in de Lage Landen).

I have some ancestors who were Dutch Reformed. My ancestors were from a variety of Christian denominations.

catgeorge
02-12-2024, 08:33 AM
They are welcome to come back to our Saints and Angels and denounce Moloch and his Bastardizations

Mortimer
02-12-2024, 10:27 AM
I think the Bosniaks wont, they exist only because of Islam, if there were no islam they wouldnt exist, they cant exist without islam. Albanians can.

Avicenna
02-12-2024, 11:34 AM
I think the Bosniaks wont, they exist only because of Islam, if there were no islam they wouldnt exist, they cant exist without islam. Albanians can.

It's ironic, last time I checked Islam is being revived like no other in Albania /Kosovo more than ever, you can't ever diminish the light of islam, many of these so called born "Muslims" abandon the religion but there are hordes of converts especially in the west. Islam does not need anyone, we need it more than anything .