How much phenotype overlap does Turkey have with its neighbours?

[Tooting Carmen]

-Bulgaria
-Greece
-Georgia
-Armenia
-Iran
-Iraq
-Syria

[Kess]

Greece, Georgia and Armenia should have the highest overlap among those.

[Tooting Carmen]

Greece, Georgia and Armenia should have the highest overlap among those.

What proportion of Turks would you estimate can pass in those countries (and vice versa)?

[Kess]

1-Greece by a small margin mostly due to prevalence of Pontid
2-Armenia due to prevalence of Anatolid which is an Armenoid type
3-Georgia due to Eastern Black Sea population.
4-Iran maybe due to Kurdish population
5-Syria
6-Iraq

[Kess]

What proportion of Turks would you estimate can pass in those countries (and vice versa)?

Western Anatolians > Greece
Eastern Anatolians > Armenia and Iran
Eastern Black Sea > Georgia

[Odelia]

Western Anatolians > Greece
Eastern Anatolians > Armenia and Iran
Eastern Black Sea > Georgia
Turkey is largely flanked by Syria and then Iraq to the south. Odd you missed Syria particularly (the biggest land border with you)...And the Turks there look pretty indistinguishable from the neighboring Syrians and Iraqis as phenotypes go (I mean the Christians and Kurds, not the full blown Arab syrians/iraqis). I understand that turks have some aversion towards Arabs, but we gotta be factual here...

https://thewaterproject.org/images/turkey-syria-iraq-map.jpg

[Oghuz]

Proper overlap exists between eastern Anatolia and Iranian Azerbaijan in terms of phenotypes. Many of the settled Turkic populations in Iranian Azerbaijan were once natives of Eastern Anatolia. The boundary between Iran and Turkey was not ethnic but political due to war between Ottomans and Aq Qovanlu and later Saffavids.

Saying that, the difference exists as well in head shape, the Iranian Kurdish, and Azeri population has progressive features due to the baseline Corded component of Iranid phenotype. The longer face, dolichocephaly, hypsicrany etc. Turkish due to Anatolid, Armenid prevalence have different head shapes. If someone flies from Tabriz to Istanbul regularly they will start noticing the difference.

My half-decade thread here on Iranian Azeri phenotype

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?276889-Most-common-phenotype-among-Iranian-Azeris

[Avicenna]

Proper overlap exists between eastern Anatolia and Iranian Azerbaijan in terms of phenotypes. Many of the settled Turkic populations in Iranian Azerbaijan were once natives of Eastern Anatolia. The boundary between Iran and Turkey was not ethnic but political due to war between Ottomans and Aq Qovanlu and later Saffavids.

Saying that, the difference exists as well in head shape, the Iranian Kurdish, and Azeri population has progressive features due to the baseline Corded component of Iranid phenotype. The longer face, dolichocephaly, hypsicrany etc. Turkish due to Anatolid, Armenid prevalence have different head shapes. If someone flies from Tabriz to Istanbul regularly they will start noticing the difference.

My half-decade thread here on Iranian Azeri phenotype

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?276889-Most-common-phenotype-among-Iranian-Azeris

One thing I've always noticed is how flat headed Armenoid like head shapes Turks and even Kurds have compared to Iranians and Afghans.

[Kess]

Turkey is largely flanked by Syria and then Iraq to the south. Odd you missed Syria particularly (the biggest land border with you)...And the Turks there look pretty indistinguishable from the neighboring Syrians and Iraqis as phenotypes go (I mean the Christians and Kurds, not the full blown Arab syrians/iraqis). I understand that turks have some aversion towards Arabs, but we gotta be factual here...

https://thewaterproject.org/images/turkey-syria-iraq-map.jpg

Even a good portion of Turks from Hatay look nothing like Syrians. There is some overlap with Syria and Iraq only in the Eastern side of Euphrates river in Southeastern Anatolia region.

[Oghuz]

One thing I've always noticed is how flat headed Armenoid like head shapes Turks and even Kurds have compared to Iranians and Afghans.

Not all Turkish are Brachys. Cap-med, pontid are also prevalent in Turkey.

[DomitiusAurelian]

Turkey is largely flanked by Syria and then Iraq to the south. Odd you missed Syria particularly (the biggest land border with you)...And the Turks there look pretty indistinguishable from the neighboring Syrians and Iraqis as phenotypes go (I mean the Christians and Kurds, not the full blown Arab syrians/iraqis). I understand that turks have some aversion towards Arabs, but we gotta be factual here...

https://thewaterproject.org/images/turkey-syria-iraq-map.jpg

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[DomitiusAurelian]

Greece, Georgia and Armenia should have the highest overlap among those.

My father looks like a textbook Georgian, and so do I.

[Thracian]

Eastern Thrace:

Bulgaria: due to recent Pomak and Turkish migrations from Bulgaria.

Greece: due to Greek Muslims (aka Patriyots), and Pomak and Turkish migrations from Greece.

Anatolian part is quite complex and already mentioned about it.

[Hektor12]

I understand that turks have some aversion towards Arabs, but we gotta be factual here...

We have undoubtedly bigger aversion toward armenians, do you see us ignoring facts about them? Unfortunately, what you want to believe isnt realistic. Despite geographic proximity, we share almost nothing with our southern neighbors. Im honestly telling you, in my life i only once mistook a Syrian for Turkish and she was wearing very heavy make-up, it was the reason. Even native Arabs of SE look considerably different than Syrians. Only Assyrians have same look but their population in Turkey is a few thousands.

Generally,

Thracians=Bulgarians
Western Anatolians=Greeks with exception of Turanids
Eastern Black Sea=Georgians
Eastern Anatolians=Iranians, armenians

[Hungarian_master]

I never been in Turkey, but it is a big country with various phenotypes and regional differences, but overall, this is how I would rank it:
1. Azerbaijan
2. Greece
3. Armenia
4. Iran
5. Bulgaria
6. Georgia
7. Syria
8. Iraq

[reboun]

Most to least:

Greece
Armenia
Iran
Bulgaria
Georgia
Syria
Iraq

[Tooting Carmen]

Most to least:

Greece
Armenia
Iran
Georgia
Syria
Bulgaria
Iraq

Why such a big gap between Greece and Bulgaria?

[reboun]

Why such a big gap between Greece and Bulgaria?

In fact, I have not seen many Bulgarians but AFAIK they usually look very Eastern European, am I right?

[Tooting Carmen]

In fact, I have not seen many Bulgarians but AFAIK they usually look very Eastern European, am I right?

They are a little less brunet and more round-faced compared to Greeks, but still I am a little astonished you'd say that Greece is the neighbour with whom you overlap the most, yet Bulgaria is the second-least.

[reboun]

They are a little less brunet and more round-faced compared to Greeks, but still I am a little astonished you'd say that Greece is the neighbour with whom you overlap the most, yet Bulgaria is the second-least.

I always thought that Bulgarians are closer to Ukrainians than they are to Greeks by phenotype. I might be wrong.

[Tooting Carmen]

I always thought that Bulgarians are closer to Ukrainians than they are to Greeks by phenotype.

Even Romanians aren't.

[reboun]

Even Romanians aren't.

I now googled Bulgarian people. Yes, I was wrong. They look more Mediterranid than I thought. Maybe I should update my ranking.

[reboun]

Even Romanians aren't.

Updated. But they still look more foreign than Armenians and Iranians in my opinion.

[Odelia]

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Don't be a biased fool. Nobody cares if you hate arabs (even though many of you can be mistaken for them by us outsiders, discounting the asiatic faced and bosnian admixed turks that your ancestors raped...Sorry!). I remember the 2023 earthquake there in northern syria and southern Turkey, and I honestly couldn't tell y'all apart. Who gives a fuck? You guys are neighbours! Some of y'all look Greek and some to the east look syrian/iraqi shifted. Stop coming here and making accounts just to jerk off to Europeans, when Europe hardly sees you as European.

Jesus sometimes I understand fuckers like Gallop here (who hates MENAs shoving themselves upon euros and doesn't want spaniards look like some arabs/muslims - *cough* when some do lmao...same way some Turks do! Oops!)! Both sides are fucking mental, and Turks in this forum are on the other extreme end for sure! (besides one or two users) :picard1: And I wouldn't mind taking either of you way, as I'm not biased at all! Bring it on.


My father looks like a textbook Georgian, and so do I.
Then ditch your religion and become a Christian like the Georgians are. You hate the arabs so much and you still claim their religion. Even the other Turkish user (banned) Kivan had a hard on for Georgians and was grossed out by Syrians, which is funny because Georgians are as Christian and as well as liberal for MENA standards, so unlike Turkey with its authoritarian Islamic government! But can someone tell me why Turks here are obsessed with Georgians - the most Christian people in the region? :bored:

[DomitiusAurelian]

Don't be a biased fool. Nobody cares if you hate arabs (even though many of you can be mistaken for them by us outsiders, discounting the asiatic faced and bosnian admixed turks that your ancestors raped...Sorry!). I remember the 2023 earthquake there in northern syria and southern Turkey, and I honestly couldn't tell y'all apart. Who gives a fuck? You guys are neighbours! Some of y'all look Greek and some to the east look syrian/iraqi shifted. Stop coming here and making accounts just to jerk off to Europeans, when Europe hardly sees you as European.

Jesus sometimes I understand fuckers like Gallop here (who hates MENAs shoving themselves upon euros and doesn't want spaniards look like some arabs/muslims - *cough* when some do lmao...same way some Turks do! Oops!)! Both sides are fucking mental, and Turks in this forum are on the other extreme end for sure! (besides one or two users) :picard1: And I wouldn't mind taking either of you way, as I'm not biased at all! Bring it on.


Then ditch your religion and become a Christian like the Georgians are. You hate the arabs so much and you still claim their religion. Even the other Turkish user (banned) Kivan had a hard on for Georgians and was grossed out by Syrians, which is funny because Georgians are as Christian and as well as liberal for MENA standards, so unlike Turkey with its authoritarian Islamic government! But can someone tell me why Turks here are obsessed with Georgians - the most Christian people in the region? :bored:

You're the biased one, not me. I've never ever identified as a ''European''. You are here making assumptions about me even though you know nothing about my ancestry. I'm from the Black Sea region. The city where I grew up has a lot of people who came from the Caucasus. I grew up with Circassians, Abkhazians and Georgians. They all call themselves Turkish and are hardcore nationalists, by the way. My father's side comes from Batumi. My grandfather spoke a little bit of Georgian as well. My mother's side is Kizilbash Turkmen from Azerbaijan. They both hail from the Caucasus region. I'm not a Muslim; I'm an Agnostic. My religion is none of your business. And I've never seen a Turk identifying as a European in real life unless they are from the Balkans. If you see a Turk identifying as European it is most likely they're from the Balkans. And there are millions of Balkan immigrants in Turkey; the average Anatolian Turk will not identify as European. It's true that some Turks from the southern regions have Levantine admixture. Some of them are ethnic Arabs even, especially people from Samandağ and Antakya. However, these ''outliers'' do not represent the average. The people genetically closest to the Anatolian Turks are the North Caucasians. Not Levantines, not Iranians, not Balkanites, or some other shit. North Caucasians. If you don't believe me just look at Modern PCA plots. Nowadays everybody is a fucking expert on Anatolian Turks. I'm the one who lives here, do you really think you know about my people more than me? The audacity you people have is hilarious.

[Odelia]

You're the biased one, not me. I've never ever identified as a ''European''. You are here making assumptions about me even though you know nothing about my ancestry.
Maybe it's your English. When I say "you", I mean your country and her people. Not really you specifically.


I'm from the Black Sea region. The city where I grew up has a lot of people who came from the Caucasus. I grew up with Circassians, Abkhazians and Georgians. They all call themselves Turkish and are hardcore nationalists, by the way. My father's side comes from Batumi. My grandfather spoke a little bit of Georgian as well. My mother's side is Kizilbash Turkmen from Azerbaijan. They both hail from the Caucasus region.
Fair enough. What do you think of Georgians and their hardcore Christianity?


I'm not a Muslim; I'm an Agnostic. My religion is none of your business. And I've never seen a Turk identifying as a European in real life unless they are from the Balkans. If you see a Turk identifying as European it is most likely they're from the Balkans. And there are millions of Balkan immigrants in Turkey; the average Anatolian Turk will not identify as European.
Oh trust me. Those that were here (and are banned for being utterly nasty and clueless) have identified as Europeans and have posted only atlantid/nordic looking Turks to justify and validate themselves.


It's true that some Turks from the southern regions have Levantine admixture. Some of them are ethnic Arabs even, especially people from Samandağ and Antakya. However, these ''outliers'' do not represent the average.
See, when a Turk is an ethnic Arab you call them that; ethnic Arab. But Turks of Greek, Georgian or anything that is 'whiter', they're labeled as plainly Turks. See the bias? What exactly are "outliers"? A lot of Turks from the southeast looked very similar to Syrians/Levantines when I watched footage of the 2023 earthquake.


The people genetically closest to the Anatolian Turks are the North Caucasians. Not Levantines, not Iranians, not Balkanites, or some other shit. North Caucasians. If you don't believe me just look at Modern PCA plots. Nowadays everybody is a fucking expert on Anatolian Turks. I'm the one who lives here, do you really think you know about my people more than me? The audacity you people have is hilarious.
We're experts on picking up bias. You just want to plot with north caucasians because they're northernmost = lighter, more euro shifted. Yes, Turks in the north will be more related to them. But you turn a blind eye towards your fellow turks in the south that border syria and iraq - Oh wait, but they're not really Turks according to some of y'all -- you'll call them ethnic Iraqis, Kurds, Syrians living in Turkey, which is such a cop out thing to do! But those in the north aren't ethnic georgians, circassians, etc (like you are?). Hm...

Look at these Gedmatch results (are they liars?)

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-801115542968c883662515b6067607f0-pjlq
https://i.postimg.cc/kGDs8C50/Untitled.jpg

Oh and there's plenty more like these (where azeri, iranian and kurd is high) but I don't have time to list all the gedmatches here! But noticing something funny? They all change depending on the vicinity. The one at the top is clearly a turk near greece and the bottom one is a southeastern Turk. So what? Only one is a true Turk cos he has a higher greek/'white' input and the other is an Azeri because azeris western asians? :rolleyes2:

I know I came across as nasty in the earlier post, cos I thought you were an OWD troll like gallop (your profile pic wasn't helping). Now I realized that you're rational and capable of mature exchange. I'm just pretty unapologetic and bitter towards apricity trolls, whether they're spanish, afghan or turkish!

[DomitiusAurelian]

Fair enough. What do you think of Georgians and their hardcore Christianity?

Nothing? I don't care. I'm not a Georgian. I feel like you don't like Turks very much.


Oh trust me. Those that were here (and are banned for being utterly nasty and clueless) have identified as Europeans and have posted only atlantid/nordic looking Turks to justify and validate themselves.

Not my problem. I'm not one of them.


See, when a Turk is an ethnic Arab you call them that; ethnic Arab. But Turks of Greek, Georgian or anything that is 'whiter', they're labeled as plainly Turks. See the bias? What exactly are "outliers"? A lot of Turks from the southeast looked very similar to Syrians/Levantines when I watched footage of the 2023 earthquake.

You're making shit up. I've never said nor claimed such a thing. They're as much Turkish as I am. But it doesn't change the fact that they're not genetically Turkish. Anatolian Turks have their own unique gene pool. We're probably the most distinguishable people in this region due to our East Eurasian/Turkic heritage. You can easily tell if someone is a Turk. If you're not able to make this distinction it means you are not well informed about the subject.


We're experts on picking up bias. You just want to plot with north caucasians because they're northernmost = lighter, more euro shifted. Yes, Turks in the north will be more related to them. But you turn a blind eye towards your fellow turks in the south that border syria and iraq - Oh wait, but they're not really Turks according to some of y'all -- you'll call them ethnic Iraqis, Kurds, Syrians living in Turkey, which is such a cop out thing to do! But those in the north aren't ethnic georgians, circassians, etc (like you are?). Hm..

Gedmatch is outdated and inaccurate. As you can see here even the most Levantine-shifted Turks from Hatay are genetically closer to North Caucasians than their Levantine neighbors. Syrians are not even in the top 50 on the distance list. You truly have no idea about the ethnogenesis of the Anatolian Turks.

https://i.ibb.co/LxTFT1R/Turkish-Hatay.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)


https://i.ibb.co/59kydyV/TurksPCA.jpg (https://ibb.co/sPCGhGr)

[Odelia]

Nothing? I don't care. I'm not a Georgian. I feel like you don't like Turks very much.
I don't mind them. Some of the Turks here on this forum have been pretty nasty, but I judge them as individuals. I'm also not a fan of Turkish history (i.e. Ottomans). But I have nothing against Turks as individuals!


You're making shit up. I've never said nor claimed such a thing. They're as much Turkish as I am. But it doesn't change the fact that they're not genetically Turkish. Anatolian Turks have their own unique gene pool. We're probably the most distinguishable people in this region due to our East Eurasian/Turkic heritage. You can easily tell if someone is a Turk. If you're not able to make this distinction it means you are not well informed about the subject.
Again making it about you. I didn't say "you" individually. I said people of your background tend to do this here.


Gedmatch is outdated and inaccurate. As you can see here even the most Levantine-shifted Turks from Hatay are genetically closer to North Caucasians than their Levantine neighbors. Syrians are not even in the top 50 on the distance list. You truly have no idea about the ethnogenesis of the Anatolian Turks.

https://i.ibb.co/LxTFT1R/Turkish-Hatay.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)


https://i.ibb.co/59kydyV/TurksPCA.jpg (https://ibb.co/sPCGhGr)
Gedmatch is dated? Says who? You? Nah, I still think you're ditching it because it showcases (southeastern) Turkish individuals that plot closer to Iranians, Assyrians and Kurds. The idea of being related to a Levantine is a taboo in your mindset and many Turks here for some reason.

I'll say it again, the Ottomans raped and pillaged people (this is a fact, I'm not hating Turks) and therefore today Turks are mostly a mishmash of groups - Greek, Armenian, Kurdish, Iranian, Mongol, Azeri, Bosniak, Circassian, even Levantine (if one would count the south - but you don't conveniently and you slam "dated" when trusted sources but Syrians close to you). Yes, native Anatolians exist but so much admixture has happened - That's why Turks look so diverse! And this is not a bad thing. :bored:

And the Turks here in the US? They usually side with their Muslim Levantine, Persian and Kurdish brethren on all issues. They'd be in cliques with them here in the bars. They generally avoid white Americans and even the Christian Greeks/Iraqis/Syrians. And I hear it's the same with German Turks. But strange, these in this forum want to tag along with atlantids, nordics and other European types, whilst viewing Syrians as "rapefugees" (which is so funny to me because right wing Europe views Turks that way too). I'm not saying this antagonistically, I'm just telling you what I experience.

My favourite YouTuber is a an atheist Turk btw (Apostate Prophet). He recognizes the Armenian genocide and he's very sweet & down to earth.

https://www.youtube.com/@ApostateProphet

[Hektor12]

I'll say it again, the Ottomans raped and pillaged people (this is a fact, I'm not hating Turks) and therefore today Turks are mostly a mishmash of groups - Greek, Armenian, Kurdish, Iranian, Mongol, Azeri, Bosniak, Circassian, even Levantine

This isnt a fact at all and only an alternative fake history based on hatred toward Ottoman Turks. All genetic researches make it clear today that ethnic Turks are descendandts of Ottoman Turks and pre-Turkic Anatolians+Thracians and later additions, after Balkan and Caucasian wars people from that regions immigrated to Turkey and became part of enthnic Turks. On the other hand, there was no immigration from south and we historically had almost zero connection with southern neighbors. Therefore its not surprising that theyre alien people to us. If you dont want to believe this due to emotional reasons its your problem.

Southeastern people (Kurds and other likely ethnics) are already people of the region, it shouldnt be surprising that theyre close to Iranians, Iraqis etc. They are not Turks racially, they have no Turkic ancestors.

[Avicenna]

I don't mind them. Some of the Turks here on this forum have been pretty nasty, but I judge them as individuals. I'm also not a fan of Turkish history (i.e. Ottomans). But I have nothing against Turks as individuals!


Again making it about you. I didn't say "you" individually. I said people of your background tend to do this here.


Gedmatch is dated? Says who? You? Nah, I still think you're ditching it because it showcases (southeastern) Turkish individuals that plot closer to Iranians, Assyrians and Kurds. The idea of being related to a Levantine is a taboo in your mindset and many Turks here for some reason.

I'll say it again, the Ottomans raped and pillaged people (this is a fact, I'm not hating Turks) and therefore today Turks are mostly a mishmash of groups - Greek, Armenian, Kurdish, Iranian, Mongol, Azeri, Bosniak, Circassian, even Levantine (if one would count the south - but you don't conveniently and you slam "dated" when trusted sources but Syrians close to you). Yes, native Anatolians exist but so much admixture has happened - That's why Turks look so diverse! And this is not a bad thing. :bored:

And the Turks here in the US? They usually side with their Muslim Levantine, Persian and Kurdish brethren on all issues. They'd be in cliques with them here in the bars. They generally avoid white Americans and even the Christian Greeks/Iraqis/Syrians. And I hear it's the same with German Turks. But strange, these in this forum want to tag along with atlantids, nordics and other European types, whilst viewing Syrians as "rapefugees" (which is so funny to me because right wing Europe views Turks that way too). I'm not saying this antagonistically, I'm just telling you what I experience.

My favourite YouTuber is a an atheist Turk btw (Apostate Prophet). He recognizes the Armenian genocide and he's very sweet & down to earth.

https://www.youtube.com/@ApostateProphet

Lmao apostate profit and Christian princeas been debunked thousands of times and is a running joke in the YouTube Muslim community .

[Odelia]

Lmao apostate profit and Christian princeas been debunked thousands of times and is a running joke in the YouTube Muslim community .
Shocking news, really?! Er....Muslims are his opponents, why would they agree with him? Lel Of course they'd try hard to "debunk" him as he is a huge threat to them (and vice versa).

Guess what, the Jews are a running joke in the neo-nazi community too! ...:rolleyes:

[Odelia]

This isnt a fact at all and only an alternative fake history based on hatred toward Ottoman Turks. All genetic researches make it clear today that ethnic Turks are descendandts of Ottoman Turks and pre-Turkic Anatolians+Thracians and later additions, after Balkan and Caucasian wars people from that regions immigrated to Turkey and became part of enthnic Turks. On the other hand, there was no immigration from south and we historically had almost zero connection with southern neighbors. Therefore its not surprising that theyre alien people to us. If you dont want to believe this due to emotional reasons its your problem.

Southeastern people (Kurds and other likely ethnics) are already people of the region, it shouldnt be surprising that theyre close to Iranians, Iraqis etc. They are not Turks racially, they have no Turkic ancestors.
Again, I have nothing against the Turks. I actually watch a few Turkish shows on netflix! And I set them apart from the Ottomans. Same way I set apart today's brits from the old British empire, which was just as vicious. But I just find it sad that today's Brits admit their wrongdoings in the past, but Turks rarely come out and call out the cruelty of their forefather's empire and recognize the armenian/greek genocides!

So my point was correct, modern day Turks have mixed ancestry (thracian, balkan, caucasian) - But you call these people ethnic Turks, yet the southern neighbours have zero connection with you? Northerners, yes, southerners no!? Yeah, that's hilarious bias and bullocks. Ethnic balkans and Caucasians can be ethnic Turks, but an ethnic Kurd/iraqi who has been in your land for a century is still not a Turk? Says who? Aren't kurds from iran and iraq? So how are they from "your" region? Your logic doesn't make sense and it's a typical OWD breathed one as you only accept the whiter groups as ethnic Turks, but not the southerners! :picard1: And I just showed you that your southern "foreigners" (who are Turks whether you like it or not babes) plot close with Iranians, Azeris and Kurds. They'd be really offended if you slap them with a foreigner card when they speak like you, act like you and probably even look like you. Just saying!

Yes, Turks have pre-turkic anatolian in them, of course they do! Buuuut.... as long as they have levantine or iranian input, they're not ethnic Turkish anymore? What a hilariously biased thing to say! Btw, I know many Georgians who will be nauseated to even connect themselves to Turks due to their strong Christian heritage and Turk's usual anti-Christian, hard Islam sentiment! And yeah, the Ottoman empire was an Islamic shit stain, with some nice costumes and architecture I give it that, but I don't judge modern day Turks based on the empire -- that said, *SOME* of you guys should have a more evolved mindset and take some accountability, like the Brits and French do! But of course, don't get too woke about it...

[Kess]

Again, I have nothing against the Turks. I actually watch a few Turkish shows on netflix! And I set them apart from the Ottomans. Same way I set apart today's brits from the old British empire, which was just as vicious. But I just find it sad that today's Brits admit their wrongdoings in the past, but Turks rarely come out and call out the cruelty of their forefather's empire and recognize the armenian/greek genocides!

So my point was correct, modern day Turks have mixed ancestry (thracian, balkan, caucasian). So you can call these people ethnic Turks, but the southern neighbours has zero connection with you? Northerners, yes, southerners no!? Yeah, that's hilarious bias. Ethnic balkans and Caucasians can be ethnic Turks, but an ethnic Kurd/iraqi who has been in your land for a century is still not a Turk? Says who? Aren't kurds from iran and iraq? How are they "people from that region'"? Your logic doesn't make sense and it's a typical OWD breathed one as you only accept the whiter groups but not the southerners! :picard1:

Yes, Turks have pre-turkic anatolian in them, of course they do. But as long as they have levantine or iranian input, they're not ethnic Turkish anymore? What a hilarious thing to say! Btw, I know many Georgians who will be nauseated to even connect themselves to Turks due to their strong Christian heritage! And yeah, the Ottoman empire was an Islamic shit stain, with some nice costumes and architecture I give it that, but I don't judge modern day Turks based on the empire -- that said, some of them should have a more evolved mindset and take accountability, like the Brits and French do.

Apart from his OWD, you don't have the slightest idea about Southeast Anatolians. First of all, the majority of them don't identify themselves as Turks. Their Kurdish identity is stronger than their Turkish identity. Even though there are shared elements between Kurds and Turks, Kurds have a separate language and culture from us. If you come here and call a Kurd a Turk, you can be called a fascist asshole.

According to Sevan Nisanyan, Arabs and Kurds have always been a separate race from the Ottomans. Ottoman people from the Balkans to Anatolia (the western side of the Euphrates) identified themselves simply as Muslims in the sense that some kind of Muslim Roman (Rum) or Ottoman. The guy I'm quoting here is a pro-Kurdish Armenian, by the way, not even a Turk, and his opinion is like this.

[Odelia]

Apart from his OWD, you don't have the slightest idea about Southeast Anatolians. First of all, the majority of them don't identify themselves as Turks. Their Kurdish identity is stronger than their Turkish identity. Even though there are shared elements between Kurds and Turks, Kurds have a separate language and culture from us. If you come here and call a Kurd a Turk, you can be called a fascist asshole.

According to Sevan Nisanyan, Arabs and Kurds have always been a separate race from the Ottomans. Ottoman people from the Balkans to Anatolia (the western side of the Euphrates) identified themselves simply as Muslims in the sense that some kind of Muslim Roman (Rum) or Ottoman. The guy I'm quoting here is a pro-Kurdish Armenian, by the way, not even a Turk, and his opinion is like this.
I know, I know and I know about Kurdish Turks and their Kurdish-ism (I remember a kurdish turk here whose posts were all about ''muh white turkish kurds'' and he got mad at me for some other reason dw...long story short he's banned).

I'm speaking about assimilated Turks in the southeast (not kurdish nationalists) who identify as Turks (and may have distant iranian, kurdish or levantine ancestry). Apparently, the users above me will not count them as "ethnic Turk" only because they have kurdish or iranian ancestry and are "from that land", and yet he'd easily accept Georgian/caucasus/greek Turks as...pure ethnic Turks. I don't understand that logic. Because they're from the north/are lighter?

Arabs are indeed a separate race. Kurds are more transitional to you guys. And Armenians get closer. It's a continuum, like all races.

[Demirkazık]

Gedmatch is dated? Says who? You? Nah, I still think you're ditching it because it showcases (southeastern) Turkish individuals that plot closer to Iranians, Assyrians and Kurds. The idea of being related to a Levantine is a taboo in your mindset and many Turks here for some reason.

It's outdated, and I do. It's strange to establish such connections to Levantines because most of us aren't related to them. However, if there are one or two factors that could brings us closer to them, would be the historical influence of the Ottoman Empire, during which they were under its rule. Alternatively, it could be our shared Anatolian background, which a regular Turkish citizen wouldn't be informed about it. I don't understand why people, such as yourself, try to fit Turks into Levantines, Hellenized Anatolians, Armenized bla bla, etc. What do you gain from doing so ?


I'll say it again, the Ottomans raped and pillaged people (this is a fact, I'm not hating Turks) and therefore today Turks are mostly a mishmash of groups - Greek, Armenian, Kurdish, Iranian, Mongol, Azeri, Bosniak, Circassian, even Levantine (if one would count the south - but you don't conveniently and you slam "dated" when trusted sources but Syrians close to you). Yes, native Anatolians exist but so much admixture has happened - That's why Turks look so diverse! And this is not a bad thing. :bored:

It's important to consider a more nuanced perspective when discussing the composition of modern day Anatolian Turks. The idea that Turks are solely a mishmash of various groups and a result of rape and pillage is outright blasphemy. Modern-day Anatolian Turks are, as the name suggests, a combination of Anatolians and Turks. It doesn't include random groups from various cultural backgrounds such as Armenians, Kurds, Bosnians, Greeks, etc. as you've mentioned, It's solely and solely Anatolian.

Do regional varieties exist ? Yes, they do as in. "Anatolia itself has been a melting pot of civilizations for centuries, with various ethnic and cultural exchanges occurring long before the Ottoman period." For instance, a Turk from Balıkesir would have Slavic admixture, not because the people from there mixed with Serbians, Bosnians, etc. but because the local Anatolians of Balıkesir had Slavic ancestry prior to Ottoman conquests. Similarly, a Turk from Giresun, excluding those with recent Caucasian ancestry, would have its non-Turkic side specifically as a mix of Colchian and Anatolian, with no Slavic ancestry. It's a different thing if we are talking about a Turk from Malatya, as they are a synthesis of Anatolian Turks and Kurds.


My favourite YouTuber is a an atheist Turk btw (Apostate Prophet). He recognizes the Armenian genocide and he's very sweet & down to earth.

Inbred, and retarded.


I don't hate Turks, but they are a result of rapes and pillages.

~Odelia

Reducing the history of the Turkish people to a narrative of only rape and pillage shows how you don't hate Turks.


Ethnic balkans and Caucasians can be ethnic Turks, but an ethnic Kurd/iraqi who has been in your land for a century is still not a Turk?

If I stay in a stable for a century will I become a horse ?


And I just showed you that your southern "foreigners" (who are Turks whether you like it or not babes) plot close with Iranians, Azeris and Kurds. They'd be really offended if you slap them with a foreigner card when they speak like you, act like you and probably even look like you. Just saying!

It's not Southerners; it's Southeasterners. The key distinction between Southern Anatolia and Southeastern "Anatolia" is that the southeastern part of Turkey is not part of Anatolia. Excluding some they are neither Anatolians nor Turks; it's as simple as that.

[Hektor12]

the users above me will not count them as "ethnic Turk" only because they have kurdish or iranian ancestry

Youre mad when i identify as white-european and call me OWD whatever shit that is but you want me to accept Mesopotamian people as ethnic Turks just because they identify as Turks. Is this fair?


Northerners, yes, southerners no!? Yeah, that's hilarious bias and bullocks.

Am i asking you who youre going to bed? I am questioning your sexual preferences? Why are you thinking that i dont have rights to choose who to take to my bed? Am i the only idiot in this world who has to be an angel?

[interes]

Greece, Georgia and Armenia should have the highest overlap among those.

Noo west georgians and bulgarians are much lighter and not hav turanid face maybe other armenians only but armenians are to lighter than turks

[Hektor12]

armenians are to lighter than turks

armenians are only lighter than Kara Boğa Turks.

[Kess]

I don't understand that logic. Because they're from the north/are lighter?

I don't understand his logic either. He's a retarded teenager don't take him seriously. He comes to my threads and says things like TuRKs aRe Muh TuraNids. Afterwards, he posts shit like this: 125963

Ah yes, a very representative picture of Turks. Gallop at least only white washes Spaniards. This retarded makes Turks "white" and "Turanid" at the same time.

[Kess]

but armenians are to lighter than turks

Another trolling by you similar to your claim West Georgians are lighter than North Caucasians.

[Zeno]

Georgia and Armenia first, then Greece, then Bulgaria, then Iraq due to the Kurds, Syria and Iran.

[catgeorge]

Turkmenistan -> Iran

Then everyone else.

[interes]

Another trolling by you similar to your claim West Georgians are lighter than North Caucasians.

if you mean north caucasians turks karachai balkars they are much lighter than armenians .

west georgians arenot darkes they are lighters

[Kess]

if you mean north caucasians turks karachai balkars they are much lighter than armenians .

west georgians arenot darkes they are lighters

Come on you admitted your trolling in the past. North Caucasians are lighter than all Georgians on average. Of course, Karachay-Balkars are lighter than both Turkish and Armenians. However, Armenians are not lighter than Turkish on average.

[interes]

Come on you admitted your trolling in the past. North Caucasians are lighter than all Georgians on average. Of course, Karachay-Balkars are lighter than both Turkish and Armenians. However, Armenians are not lighter than Turkish on average.

yes North caucasians are lighter than all other population georgians