How common is red hair in your ethnicity?

[Italicus]

It's common knowledge to people interested in anthropology (and even non anthrotards) that red hair is common in Ireland and Scotland. But how common is it in your country/etnicity?

[Laredo]

Almost 0, however I do have some cousins with semi-blonde hair.

[Beowulf]

Not very it's uncommon, but sometimes you see someone with red hair here.

[Token]

Red hair in the beard, pretty common. In the head, pretty rare.

[Laredo]

Not very it's uncommon, but sometimes you see someone with red hair here.

Really? Jalisco Is known for having a good amount of blondes and red heads.

Maybe indeed French influence in Los altos?

[Beowulf]

Really? Jalisco Is known for having a good amount of blondes and red heads.

Maybe indeed French influence in Los altos?

I'm talking in a general level for Spain

[Rædwald]

In my family very common, and generally in my community.

My lady is a beautiful ginger, and my brother is one. I have a red beard like my dad, but not red hair.

[Creoda]

Not very common.

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm Irish but yes it is relatively common. All my family tested carry a couple of red haired variants. I have two relatives that have done dna tests that are both redheads (a father and daughter). It's in my paternal side from Roscommon. But my mother also carried a variant and her grandmother was a redhead.

My cousin above who has done a dna test is a redhead and his 3 children are redheads. His sister (my cousin) is a redhead and her two children are also redheads. I have reddish hair but I'm more red/brown.

Here's my natural hair colour taken years ago.

https://i.imgur.com/1WFKcuz.png

[Italicus]

I'm Irish but yes it is relatively common. All my family tested carry a couple of red haired variants. I have two relatives that have done dna tests that are both redheads (a father and daughter). It's in my paternal side from Roscommon. But my mother also carried a variant and her grandmother was a redhead.

My cousin above who has done a dna test is a redhead and his 3 children are redheads. His sister (my cousin) is a redhead and her two children are also redheads. I have reddish hair but I'm more red/brown.

Here's my natural hair colour taken years ago.

https://i.imgur.com/1WFKcuz.png

I hear that in Ireland and Scotland red hair is around 10 percent, but what do you think is the percentage for firey, unambiguous red hair in those two countries? (Excluding auburn and strawberry blond.)

[Grace O'Malley]

I hear that in Ireland and Scotland red hair is around 10 percent, but what do you think is the percentage for firey, unambiguous red hair in those two countries? (Excluding auburn and strawberry blond.)

That fiery red hair is possibly about 2%. Most redheads don't have that colour.

This is one of my relative's hair colour.

https://i.imgur.com/u3veL5q.png

[Melkiirs]

It's common knowledge to people interested in anthropology (and even non anthrotards) that red hair is common in Ireland and Scotland. But how common is it in your country?

Bright red hair (Fischer #2) in adults is very rare to almost non existent in continental Europeans including Scandinavians. When it does occur it is mostly found in children and fades to at least light auburn by adulthood. Halfdan Bryn found only 0.1% Fischer #2 in 11,771 Norwegian recruit age males. Other adult continental Europeans (except perhaps Udmurts although light auburn Fischer #3 is certainly the predominantly shade within Fischer #1-3) cannot feasibly be much higher. In Southern Europe where 0.5% or less Fischer #1-3 is typical with vast majority being #3 light auburn such cases would be utterly negligible.

Here is a girl (young adult rather) with that shade I know for example:
https://i.ibb.co/2W7s9tn/Fischer-2.png (https://imgbb.com/)

In Wales at least based on the E. Sunderland study very red hair in young adults is a regular occurrence a not exceptional like in the continent. Exact figures on incidence are not clear from the study but they suggest it being more common then the rest of Britain.

One of the methods Sunderland used to measure redness of hair samples was the R statistic comparing bluish and red-gold reflectance with the lower R the stronger red-gold reflectance. It was mentioned that the R statistic was more effective at distinguishing red from brown than red from blond. Reddish-blond has a lower R value than auburn even if auburn is often no less red. East Anglia & Lincolnshire among the most Germanic and blond regions in the British Isles was found to have an above average frequency of reddish hair based on R statistic but accounting for lighter hair color relative to the rest of Britain much of this likely verged on golden blond. Reddish blond or light red (distinguished better in Fischer-Saller scale than Fischer scale) is quite common in typical continental Germanics like Frisians or Lower Saxons and was likely prominent among the Anglo-Saxons. Among 314 adults from Aurich, East Friesland 6.1% reds were found I-VI due in significant part to red-blonds (https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=Mu4KuPs-0RcC&dq=ostfriesen+I-VI+rotblond&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=frauen). 6.1% is not so much less than the proportion of Sunderland's full UK series of 1000 with a R value 48 or below (7.36%).

The Border region and especially Wales would not be affected much by limitations of R with fair hair as they were found to be quite dark haired. Beddoe found the Border region rather light haired just as he found Cornwall quite dark haired contrary to Sunderland but limitations arise from the relatively small sampling here. Wales had the lowest average R value suggesting a lot of bright copper hair (R of 35 & below) to compensate for the high R of the typical dark-haired person. The Border region had a higher average R value suggesting that more of the high percentage of reddish shades were more auburn versus bright red compared to Wales.

Here is the most relevant text (These figures might be representative including Fischer #6 which is chestnut or dark auburn but not clear red Fischer #1-3):
https://i.ibb.co/6ympDtr/NAB1.png (https://imgbb.com/)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1469-1809.1955.tb01287.x

[sacha]

Beards are commonly red. Red-blonde is more prevalent than yellow-blonde, but less prevalent than 'dirty blonde.' It happens enough that I'm not surprised at people who are this way, but it is by no means you know common amongst the general population. Personally I know a lot of redheads (well, not all very red red, light-red to dark-red that is clearly red), though quite a few are my own relatives so I do not think that is an effective way to assess the entire population xd

[Italicus]

Bright red hair (Fischer #2) in adults is very rare to almost non existent in continental European adults including Scandinavians. When it does occur it is mostly found in children and fades to at least light auburn by adulthood. Halfdan Bryn found only 0.1% Fischer #2 in 11,771 Norwegian recruit age males. Other adult continental Europeans (except perhaps Udmurts although light auburn Fischer #3 is certainly the predominantly shade within Fischer #1-3) cannot feasibly be much higher. In Southern Europe where 0.5% or less Fischer #1-3 is typical with vast majority being #3 light auburn such cases would be utterly negligible.

Here is a girl (young adult rather) with that shade I know for example:
https://i.ibb.co/2W7s9tn/Fischer-2.png (https://imgbb.com/)

In Wales at least based on the E. Sunderland study very red hair in young adults is a regular occurrence a not exceptional like in the continent. Exact figures on incidence are not clear from the study but they suggest it being more common then the rest of Britain.

One of the methods Sunderland used to measure redness of hair samples was the R statistic comparing bluish and red-gold reflectance with the lower R the stronger red-gold reflectance. It was mentioned that the R statistic was more effective at distinguishing red from brown than red from blond. Reddish-blond has a lower R value than auburn even if auburn is often no less red. East Anglia & Lincolnshire among the most Germanic and blond regions in the British Isles was found to have an above average frequency of reddish hair based on R statistic but accounting for lighter hair color relative to the rest of Britain much of this likely verged on golden blond. Reddish blond or light red (distinguished better in Fischer-Saller scale than Fischer scale) is quite common in typical continental Germanics like Frisians or Lower Saxons and was likely prominent among the Anglo-Saxons. Among 314 adults from Aurich, East Friesland 6.1% reds were found I-VI due in significant part to red-blonds (https://books.google.com/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=Mu4KuPs-0RcC&dq=ostfriesen+I-VI+rotblond&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=frauen). 6.1% is not so much less than the proportion of Sunderland's full UK series of 1000 with a R value 48 or below (7.36%).

The Border region and especially Wales would not be affected much by limitations of R with fair hair as they were found to be quite dark haired. Beddoe found the Border region rather light haired just as he found Cornwall quite dark haired contrary to Sunderland but limitations arise from the relatively small sampling here. Wales had the lowest average R value suggesting a lot of bright copper hair (R of 35 & below) to compensate for the high R of the typical dark-haired person. The Border region had a higher average R value suggesting that more of the high percentage of reddish shades were more auburn versus bright red compared to Wales.

Here is the most relevant text (These figures might be representative including Fischer #6 which is chestnut or dark auburn but not clear red Fischer #1-3):
https://i.ibb.co/6ympDtr/NAB1.png (https://imgbb.com/)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1469-1809.1955.tb01287.x

Interesting. Outside the British Isles, where would Fischer 2 hair color be the most common? And at what frequency?

[PlattitüdenPaule]

Here is a girl (young adult rather) with that shade I know for example:

Exactly the same colour and shade as my brothers. You wouldnt mind introducing her to me, would you? :cool:

[Anglo-Celtic]

It's weird, but there's a map that claims that Northeastern Tennessee and Southwestern Virginia have the most red hair as a POP. It could be the Gaelic genes that some carrot tops on both sides got, but we mostly have light brown to black hair with more blondes from the youngest generation whose parent(s) are from the Midwest.

[Italicus]

Exactly the same colour and shade as my brothers. You wouldnt mind introducing her to me, would you? :cool:

Careful now. You want your children to have souls, right?

[sacha]

Careful now. You want your children to have souls, right?

If a redhead has a child without red hair, is soullessness passed down? And if that child does, is that passed down further? There could be many tainted family lines out there, if so. This is a serious discussion for serious adult anthrotards

[Italicus]

If a redhead has a child without red hair, is soullessness passed down? And if that child does, is that passed down further? There could be many tainted family lines out there, if so. This is a serious discussion for serious adult anthrotards

I'd say if there's some ginger, like in my case with my beard, then part of the soul is missing. If you only carry the genes, you are a psychopath, but you have your soul.

[Italicus]

It's weird, but there's a map that claims that Northeastern Tennessee and Southwestern Virginia have the most red hair as a POP. It could be the Gaelic genes that some carrot tops on both sides got, but we mostly have light brown to black hair with more blondes from the youngest generation whose parent(s) are from the Midwest.

Yeah, it's probably the Pictish and Gaelic blood in the hills.

[PlattitüdenPaule]

Careful now. You want your children to have souls, right?

I doubt it makes a difference anymore at that point, since literally half my family are gingers and apart from a red beard I`ve also got that type 1 freckled skin, lol.

[Italicus]

In my family very common, and generally in my community.

My lady is a beautiful ginger, and my brother is one. I have a red beard like my dad, but not red hair.

I imagine it's quite common in Newfoundland due to heavy Celtic ancestry, probably a world hotspot. I have a reddish beard too, but I don't think I found any MC1R variants on 23andme.

[Melkiirs]

Interesting. Outside the British Isles, where would Fischer 2 hair color be the most common? And at what frequency?

Among Bryn's series of Norwegian recruits from Western Norway of Alpine type he found 0.7% Fischer #2, which is exceedingly high in a continental European context. It shouldn't be more common elsewhere in Scandinavia. Norwegian schoolchildren (survey of 25,000) were already found more red-haired included all reddish shades than Danish schoolchildren by Søren Hansen (4.6% vs 2.5% for boys), although it was noted that in some districts as much as 75% became non-red by adulthood. The lack of formal scales in the childhood survey could also have been a factor in addition to actual fading. Norway might have the highest carrier rate of RHC variants of any continental European country if the data obtained from 23&me by Samuel Andrews (https://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866) in 2017 is representative (52% carrier rate for 415-419 users). Iceland is probably similar or maybe even higher than the high end of Norway. Iceland has an overall RHC rate possibly as as high as Irish, but lower with the most penetrant common variant, R151C. Likely Iceland is where bright red is most common outside the British Isles.

[Italicus]

I doubt it makes a difference anymore at that point, since literally half my family are gingers and apart from a red beard I`ve also got that type 1 freckled skin, lol.

Is unambiguous red hair hard to find in Germany? Also, which region would you say it is most common in?

[Anglo-Celtic]

Yeah, it's probably the Pictish and Gaelic blood in the hills.

As far as I know, it's just my aunt, my cousin, and my dad's cousin (looks like Brendan Gleeson). I had copper hair when I was a kid, but it turned black (with my crazy life, it should have turned white back in my twenties).

[PlattitüdenPaule]

Is unambiguous red hair hard to find in Germany? Also, which region would you say it is most common in?

Not very common, but not really hard to find either. In a (native) crowd you`ll almost always spot someone with true red hair.
As for regions, cant really tell, it`s pretty evenly spread, at least in the western part. The further you go east, the less frequently it becomes.

[Italicus]

Among Bryn's series of Norwegian recruits from Western Norway of Alpine type he found 0.7% Fischer #2, which is exceedingly high in a continental European context. It shouldn't be more common elsewhere in Scandinavia. Norwegian schoolchildren (survey of 25,000) were already found more red-haired included all reddish shades than Danish schoolchildren by Søren Hansen (4.6% vs 2.5% for boys), although it was noted that in some districts as much as 75% became non-red by adulthood. The lack of formal scales in the childhood survey could also have been a factor in addition to actual fading. Norway might have the highest carrier rate of RHC variants of any continental European country if the data obtained from 23&me by Samuel Andrews (https://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866) in 2017 is representative (52% carrier rate for 415-419 users). Iceland is probably similar or maybe even higher than the high end of Norway. Iceland has an overall RHC rate possibly as as high as Irish, but lower with the most penetrant common variant, R151C. Likely Iceland is where bright red is most common outside the British Isles.

What's the frequency for Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England? Is Udmurtia also comparable to the British Isles?

[Rædwald]

I imagine it's quite common in Newfoundland due to heavy Celtic ancestry, probably a world hotspot. I have a reddish beard too, but I don't think I found any MC1R variants on 23andme.

Yeah, absolutely a hot spot in the Americas, along with Appalachia. I don't have the MC1R variant.

[Italicus]

Yeah, absolutely a hot spot in the Americas, along with Appalachia. I don't have the MC1R variant.

Its funny how genes work like that. I don't know how it is that both of us don't have the MC1R gene, yet somehow it's phenotypically visible. Downright puzzling.

[Grace O'Malley]

Among Bryn's series of Norwegian recruits from Western Norway of Alpine type he found 0.7% Fischer #2, which is exceedingly high in a continental European context. It shouldn't be more common elsewhere in Scandinavia. Norwegian schoolchildren (survey of 25,000) were already found more red-haired included all reddish shades than Danish schoolchildren by Søren Hansen (4.6% vs 2.5% for boys), although it was noted that in some districts as much as 75% became non-red by adulthood. The lack of formal scales in the childhood survey could also have been a factor in addition to actual fading. Norway might have the highest carrier rate of RHC variants of any continental European country if the data obtained from 23&me by Samuel Andrews (https://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866) in 2017 is representative (52% carrier rate for 415-419 users). Iceland is probably similar or maybe even higher than the high end of Norway. Iceland has an overall RHC rate possibly as as high as Irish, but lower with the most penetrant common variant, R151C. Likely Iceland is where bright red is most common outside the British Isles.

All my family tested don't have the most penetrant variant. My results are rs1805008 16 89986144 CT. I would love to ask my redheaded relatives tested to see what variants they have. I will one of these days to see if they have both the rs1805008 and the rs1805007 which is the R151C one as that particular side has very strong red hair genetics. I was just looking at some of their very young children now and they had the red hair also. Not that real carrot red though.

Red hair does seem quite ubiquitous in the Irish though. My brother-in-law is also a redhead.

[Melkiirs]

Not very common, but not really hard to find either. In a (native) crowd you`ll almost always spot someone with true red hair.
As for regions, cant really tell, it`s pretty evenly spread, at least in the western part. The further you go east, the less frequently it becomes.

Northwest Germans are the closest genetically among ethnic Germans to migration period and likely Roman period Germanic tribes like the Alemanni or Saxons. A common description recorded in Tacitus' Germania was rutilae comae which translates to golden-red or reddish blond. Beddoe found this golden-red hair was not surprising among Germans most common in Lower Saxony and Westphalia in Northwest Germany even higher than in the Low Countries:

"There is little in Holland ( 1 · 81 ) and not much in Flanders ( 2 · 18 ) ; but in Westphalia and other parts of the old Saxon land I found as much as 3.8 per cent . The German red , however , usually verges on pale yellow ; and the old Saxon land I found as much as 3.8 per cent; and the great unpopularity of the colour in Germany led to its being almost ignored by Virchow's schoolmaster - agents ."

Possibly around 5% of children in the area have golden-red hair according to Fischer-Saller scale. Margrit Wagner found 4.9% Fischer-Saller IV-VI among 2004 schoolchildren from Cloppenburg, Lower Saxony (https://www.jstor.org/stable/25754548). Deeper reds I-III were 1.3%, so the golden-red is the typical shade. Virchow included all schoolchildren with hair lighter than chestnut as fair provided it was not very red (brandrothe) and found only 0.3% bright red in Prussia. Regardless of location it was found less than 1% usually by a large margin. A huge study of 15,575 Viennese from infant to 60 from the 1970s (https://books.google.com/books?id=fLIWAQAAMAAJ&q=%221,98+2+681+2,05+1+1+1+1+1+735+1,49+1+1+1+678+ 1,32+1+1+504+1,19+1+1+1+530+1,13+40-44+1+1+45-50+1+1+%22&dq=%221,98+2+681+2,05+1+1+1+1+1+735+1,49+1+1+1+678 +1,32+1+1+504+1,19+1+1+1+530+1,13+40-44+1+1+45-50+1+1+%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBpP-CsI6EAxWpj4kEHdo0C2QQ6AF6BAgHEAI) found just below this in Fischer-Saller shade I which is not quite bright orange like Fischer #2 but clearly the reddest of the six shades. Virchow's general findings for brandrothe thus appear to be reasonably logical.

[Melkiirs]

What's the frequency for Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England? Is Udmurtia also comparable to the British Isles?

With Bryn's work I know the exact Fischer shades recorded. There is little scaled material available for British Isles but there is a large reflectometry study by E. Sunderland. Probably not more than 1% bright red for adults in England at least overall. In the Sunderland study including 1000 British soldiers not just English but also 105 Scots and 53 Welsh the average of "true reds" distinct from reddish-browns using an alternative R statistic from an earlier study by Gardener & McAdam came to 1.2%. Very bright red is likely mostly above 1% among Insular Celts.

In terms of Fischer #1-3 Udmurts are certainly as red as the British Isles. If Fischer #3 light auburn (medium to light brown with prominent red element) is excluded I suspect the lighter shades #1-2 would run lower compared to Insular Celts given the general darker pigmentation of Udmurts relative to the British Isles.

This table was complied by past user Laag:
https://i.ibb.co/7vSRPtM/1613071895354.jpg (https://ibb.co/Q9JCLvS)

5.9% Fischer #1-3 found by Zam only has comparison with Insular Celtic populations.

[Your Old Comrade]

A quick Google search says between 2 to 4 percent.

[Melkiirs]

White Americans of mostly mixed British and German heritage (typical Midwestern Protestant) are likely around 3-4% reddish (not just clear red included in Fischer #1-3) Fischer-Saller I-VI (read light to dark here) as young adults. This is from a study of genetic traits in American college students at Ohio State University by David C. Rife from 1948. Students were separated by religion with Protestant students clearly best represented at 310 students:
https://i.ibb.co/bFwnmz4/HCOS2.png (https://ibb.co/3v6HdBx)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.1330060110

It will be higher among Whites from other regions of the U.S. with a more consistent British Isles background. Perhaps 4-5%.

[Sarin]

Crossed path with a larger number but yet to come across a ginger . Light brown at most among rare few .

[Flashball]

We have no study (21th century) on the rate of (fully expressed) redheads among ethnic French people from France (so not Corsica) having 8/8 of their ancestors in France, so I don't know.

[nittionia]

I used to have red hair and then it changed to blonde

[Melkiirs]

Russki asked me to post details regarding the difference between Ethnic Russians and native Volga-Ural populations overall in rufosity. Although I'm not Russian I agreed to post this on his behalf.

In 1921 the American Relief Administration which was active in the Soviet Tatar Republic decided to carry out a survey of the physical development of children of different nationalities living in the region in Kazan and county towns. In addition to the main focus of weight and sitting height to determine malnutrition, other observations including hair and eye color using Fischer and Martin scales were executed for a certain number of the surveyed children. For hair color 595 ethnic Russian schoolchildren, 287 Jewish schoochildren, and 280 Kazan Tatar schoolchildren were observed. The Jewish and Kazan Tatar schoochildren were both found the have about twice the proportion of clear red Fischer #1-3 (1.0% and 1.1% respectively) as the ethnic Russians (0.5%). So it is relatively rare among Russians as children.
https://books.google.com/books?id=t_5WAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA286&dq=%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B+%D1%80%D1% 83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5+%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8 0%D0%B5%D0%B8+%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5+%D0%B 2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8B+%220,5%25%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisqeLwpv-DAxV_EFkFHcKfDJ0Q6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q=%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B%20%D1%80%D1 %83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5%20%D0%B5%D0%B2%D 1%80%D0%B5%D0%B8%20%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5% 20%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8B%20%220%2C5% 25%22&f=false

The other later survey including ethnic Russians in the Volga-Ural region executed by Estonian anthropologist Karin Mark involving 558 adults for red hair found 0.7% clear red. If you exclude the three of four cases occurring in Igra rural Udmurtia likely of partial Udmurt ancestry (with the group being vastly more rufous than ethnic Russians) the percentage of clear red in adults is closer to 0.2%. Dr. Victor Kretzer found this same percentage of distinctive red among 500 ethnic Russians from Latgale, so it it likely fairly typical for adult Russians in general. 0.2% Fischer #1-3 is below the majority of non-Russian Volga-Ural ethnic groups based on Mark's work, so it is the region overall and not just specific groups which are relatively rufous in a Russian context.
https://dspace.ut.ee/items/b83366fa-5f23-4b9f-913b-393e0485d5a2

Russki made a thread last summer about Udmurts having elevated Yamnaya admixture relative to typical Eastern Europeans and Baltic genetic drift reducing rufosity in the region:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?374293-Udmurts-are-3-4-NW-European-1-4-East-Asian

I assume he suspects that this possibility is not limited to Udmurts and shared to a certain degree between populations with native Volga-Ural ancestry before Russian settlement.

[Rædwald]

I used to have red hair and then it changed to blonde

My brother was born blonde, and became red aha

[Creoda]

It will be higher among Whites from other regions of the U.S. with a more consistent British Isles background. Perhaps 4-5%.
Yes. Growing up in an Anglo-Celtic area it seemed standard to have 1 redhead in a class (of around 20), so about 5% is has always intuitively seemed right. Reddish-brown shades excepted.

[Abaddon]

Pretty uncommon.

[Mortimer]

Probably around 0.01% the .01% maybe because of some type of genetic mutation the mystery girl maria was found by DNA in bulgaria, that her mother is a bulgarian gypsy and her mother has a few blonde and red haired kids, the mother does look like a "gypsy" the kids are blonde and red haired, genetic mutation?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvk2-XHxQFYRbseIF-DJpTdvXtwV5OThNMcOVzu1xr9A&s

[Grace O'Malley]

Probably around 0.01% the .01% maybe because of some type of genetic mutation the mystery girl maria was found by DNA in bulgaria, that her mother is a bulgarian gypsy and her mother has a few blonde and red haired kids, the mother does look like a "gypsy" the kids are blonde and red haired, genetic mutation?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvk2-XHxQFYRbseIF-DJpTdvXtwV5OThNMcOVzu1xr9A&s

That little girl has dye in her hair but red hair can appear in any population it is just very rare in some populations.

See below.

https://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2013/10/26/P07-131026-330.jpg

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/maria-2-way_2712593b.jpg

Here is an picture of the older daughter of that Roma couple. I think they are Albinos.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/web1_372841-d7b16d9d299f42f48cf71937428cc329_0.jpg

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02712/maria-bulgaria8_2712535b.jpg?imwidth=960

[Mortimer]

That little girl has dye in her hair but red hair can appear in any population it is just very rare in some populations.

See below.

https://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2013/10/26/P07-131026-330.jpg

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/maria-2-way_2712593b.jpg

Here is an picture of the older daughter of that Roma couple. I think they are Albinos.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/web1_372841-d7b16d9d299f42f48cf71937428cc329_0.jpg

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02712/maria-bulgaria8_2712535b.jpg?imwidth=960

They might be albinos or have a similar genetic mutation. I said though realistically it is 0.01% very few, you could count on 10 fingers how many there are. Maybe some more if we count, welsh kale, scottish travellers, romanichal etc. or norwegian and swedish travellers etc., they are mixed pulations between "eastern european roma" and northern european populations, they are sub-groups of romani.

[Grace O'Malley]

They might be albinos or have a similar genetic mutation. I said though realistically it is 0.01% very few, you could count on 10 fingers how many there are. Maybe some more if we count, welsh kale, scottish travellers, romanichal etc. or norwegian and swedish travellers etc., they are mixed pulations between "eastern european roma" and northern european populations, they are sub-groups of romani.

I'm just saying that the picture is not a good one because the little girl isn't a redhead but has something put in her hair.

[Mortimer]

I'm just saying that the picture is not a good one because the little girl isn't a redhead but has something put in her hair.

The picture seems high quality and she seems red haired, i doubt such a little girl dyes her hair, why would she? Also some of her siblings also have red or very platinum blonde hair, and they are not dyed.

[Grace O'Malley]

The picture seems high quality and she seems red haired, i doubt such a little girl dyes her hair, why would she? Also some of her siblings also have red or very platinum blonde hair, and they are not dyed.

They obviously have put something in the child's hair. It doesn't even look natural.


"We gave the child for free. I did not take any money. I had nothing to feed her," the thin, dark-complexioned Ruseva told reporters outside the police station, clutching another small, freckled and pale-skinned girl of two or three with dyed red hair."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/greek-mystery-girl-sold-bulgarian-roma-parents_n_4155068

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5d024c4d2100009518ef6377.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_nou pscale&format=webp

https://i.imgur.com/Gpvs2Fq.png

[Mortimer]

They obviously have put something in the child's hair. It doesn't even look natural.



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/greek-mystery-girl-sold-bulgarian-roma-parents_n_4155068

I dont think that, Im sure, I read that in the UK officials and doctors racially profile and discriminate romani, like they said it is impossible that a dark complexioned romani has a blonde child, and the police raided their home, took their kids away, and later after DNA test they gave the kid back, because it was really theirs. "dyed red hair" might be racial discrimination by huffpost. I dont think a 3 year old dyes it hair. also there are mixed colors like someone has a reddish beard but dark hair, i see there is something else in the hair it might be a mixed color, i do not think it is dyed though.

[Grace O'Malley]

I dont think that, Im sure, I read that in the UK officials and doctors racially profile and discriminate romani, like they said it is impossible that a dark complexioned romani has a blonde child, and the police raided their home, took their kids away, and later after DNA test they gave the kid back, because it was really theirs. "dyed red hair" might be racial discrimination by huffpost. I dont think a 3 year old dyes it hair. also there are mixed colors like someone has a reddish beard but dark hair, i see there is something else in the hair it might be a mixed color, i do not think it is dyed though.

It's very obviously dyed and I'm not going around with 50 posts saying the same thing. Even in articles they state the child's hair is dyed.

[Mortimer]

It's very obviously dyed and I'm not going around with 50 posts saying the same thing. Even in articles they state the child's hair is dyed.

To me it is obviously not dyed, and british write it is dyed, because they racially profile romani.

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/23/world/europe/europe-mystery-girls/index.html

[Grace O'Malley]

To me it is obviously not dyed, and british write it is dyed, because they racially profile romani.

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/23/world/europe/europe-mystery-girls/index.html

This is a Greek paper and it is obvious there is something in the child's hair. It's stupid arguing about it when it is very obvious. You can see it's not a natural colour. :picard1:

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2013/10/24/little-maria-not-a-blonde-angel-but-an-albino-gypsy/

[Mortimer]

I heard from a american-romani that also in the USA "officials" reported his blue eyes as "gray" and wrote he is "other" he said he is "white" they corrected it to "other" and blue eyes to "gray eyes". He told me that on facebook on messenger.

[Mortimer]

This is a Greek paper and it is obvious there is something in the child's hair. It's stupid arguing about it when it is very obvious. You can see it's not a natural colour. :picard1:

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2013/10/24/little-maria-not-a-blonde-angel-but-an-albino-gypsy/

I think there are people with mixed blonde and red hair, also people with mixed red and brown hair, some have reddish tones in their beard, or in parts in their hair, and otherwise dark hair red beard or something, some have blonde hair but dark eyebrows like feichy. Im sure a baby wouldnt dye her hair. Or that parents would dye her hair, it doesnt look like that to me, they would first do other cosmetic things living in that trash they do before dying their hair to look "whiter". Makes no sense to me considering how they live and how old the girls are.

[Grace O'Malley]

I heard from a american-romani that also in the USA "officials" reported his blue eyes as "gray" and wrote he is "other" he said he is "white" they corrected it to "other" and blue eyes to "gray eyes". He told me that on facebook on messenger.

None of what you are saying is relevant. This is just about that one little girl who is naturally blond. So nothing to do with racism. She has something in her hair just like the older sister has something in her hair.

My whole point was that the little girl is not a redhead. :rolleyes:

Post a real redheaded Roma. I'm sure there are some just not this little girl.

[Mortimer]

None of what you are saying is relevant. This is just about that one little girl who is naturally blond. So nothing to do with racism. She has something in her hair just like the older sister has something in her hair.

My whole point was that the little girl is not a redhead. :rolleyes:

Post a real redheaded Roma. I'm sure there are some just not this little girl.

Depends on what you consider red head, there are people with mixed hair, or red beard but dark hair. Im just sure nothing was put in her hair, i dont know if she is really "a readhead"

[Grace O'Malley]

Depends on what you consider red head, there are people with mixed hair, or red beard but dark hair. Im just sure nothing was put in her hair, i dont know if she is really "a readhead"

https://media1.giphy.com/media/doj0XOeLk2OXu/giphy.webp?cid=ecf05e47unauhu2ac8qoc7kdun6ssd93a8e j9uww9vhwcmde&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g

[Anglo-Celtic]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/doj0XOeLk2OXu/giphy.webp?cid=ecf05e47unauhu2ac8qoc7kdun6ssd93a8e j9uww9vhwcmde&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g

Hmmm. Are you happy to be back? ;)

[Grace O'Malley]

Hmmm. Are you happy to be back? ;)

Wow! You have ESP. You know what I'm thinking. :)

[Rostos vilmoskörte]

Not common but it exists, probably around 1-1.5% of the population.
Its more common to see men with red beards than red hair.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Wow! You have ESP. You know what I'm thinking. :)

I'm psychic. Think of a color.

[Beowulf]

I used to have red hair and then it changed to blonde

Me the opposite lol.

[Oghuz]

Rare but shows up

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-95142429ee211c69293170df23c76c80-lq
https://www.al-monitor.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_header/public/almpics/2016/06/RTX1Z8NO.jpg/RTX1Z8NO.jpg?h=f7822858&itok=XtdDALQt
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-03a4b08ffac311f53ee9fefb99ac48ec-lq
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2206b9405590d5b1bc3a6eec943e6186-pjlq
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/ff/0a/0cff0a20f0846178bf55f935aa4eb0c8.jpg
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-41e2eb75d23100739fc21db64b6368c2
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-92e34586f961618151b4985b41a5c55d
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-09444f4db9be696a8a3f9a3046c05cad
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-05855b3b0ed11522a6953cbbbdf1aa77
https://img.sputnikimages.com/images/vol1%2Fmedia%2Foriginal%2Fold%2F223%2F37%2F2233726 _hires_0%3A0%3A0%3A0_1400x1000_80_10_1_VmxhZGltaXI gQmFyYW5vdiAjMjIzMzcyNg%3D%3D_116%3A95_sputnik-2233726-preview_13744e5e00281bf7cfba2ea3359bace1.jpg

Most famous Iranian ginger ever perhaps

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Portrait_of_Shah_Ismail_I._Inscribed_%22Ismael_Sop hy_Rex_Pers%22._Painted_by_Cristofano_dell%27Altis simo%2C_dated_1552-1568.jpg

[Melkiirs]

The picture seems high quality and she seems red haired, i doubt such a little girl dyes her hair, why would she? Also some of her siblings also have red or very platinum blonde hair, and they are not dyed.

They both have naturally near white blond hair. It is a custom for the hair of albinos to be dyed with henna in parts of South Asia and this may carry over to Romani in Europe.

This is a photo from the village of Bhatti in Sindh Pakistan where Oculocutaneous albinism is prevalent:
https://i.ibb.co/hDSsx1D/7-B741341-ABB6-48-C7-8961-99-EF8-A995175.png (https://ibb.co/18kZYJ8)
All affected individuals had white hairs, hazel eyes, and milky white skin according to medical report:
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-UNIQUE-ALBINO-VILLAGE-OF-BHATTI-TRIBE-IN-RURAL-AN-Samdani-Khoso/0168ac02627ea9795c36f401a7330e151fadd5a5

Oculocutaneous albinism type 3 is associated with reddish hair, but that is reported among SSA and Melanesian populations, not South Asians.

[Jingle Bell]

Rare asf, if u have u be prob called "gringo" or "galego", Blonde/Blondish hair is not thaaat rare but still not comum, most whites here are somewhere in the Atlantid - Gracile Med spectrum

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

Not very it's uncommon, but sometimes you see someone with red hair here.

like Alex Fernandez the Cadiz player

https://assets.laliga.com/squad/2023/t1737/p88479/2048x2225/p88479_t1737_2023_1_001_000.png

[Damião de Góis]

Very rare, but it's present. That's my impression in Lisbon metro area, where it's still possible to come up with a picture of a crowd where there's a ginger in each side of the picture. So they are not extinct here yet.

https://i.imgur.com/oHvGzdf.jpeg

[Zeno]

In beards, so and so, assuming that by "common" we all mean 10-15% of the population at most for any red hair presence to begin with.
In head hair however, pretty rare, obviously. Although I know some redheads both in my family and among acquaintances. But that doesn't change the fact they're rare as a whole.

[DraviXi99]

Rare asf, if u have u be prob called "gringo" or "galego", Blonde/Blondish hair is not thaaat rare but still not comum, most whites here are somewhere in the Atlantid - Gracile Med spectrum

Red hair in brasil is more common than blonde i think,light hair and eyes are not rare at all in general if you search about,aslo white brasilians are rarely gracile med,but youre right about the atlantid.

[Jingle Bell]

Red hair in brasil is more common than blonde i think,light hair and eyes are not rare at all in general if you search about,aslo white brasilians are rarely gracile med,but youre right about the atlantid.

I dont say by all Brazil, but most from my region/nearly cities.
Here, maybe bcs our European side its almost exclusive Quinhentist Portuguese, the Med Component is predominant, Atlantid & Alpine in 2nd place

[DraviXi99]

I dont say by all Brazil, but most from my region/nearly cities.
Here, maybe bcs our European side its almost exclusive Quinhentist Portuguese, the Med Component is predominant, Atlantid & Alpine in 2nd place

hm,what does quinhetist means,i think it means quinhetista right,so if you refer to colonizers i think they were atlantid but that could have been other phenos back then too i guess

[Tsuin]

non-existent

[Mortimer]

They both have naturally near white blond hair. It is a custom for the hair of albinos to be dyed with henna in parts of South Asia and this may carry over to Romani in Europe.


Romani are thousand years out of india, they dont even have any memory of being in india, i doubt they would carry and know even such a tradition. But it might be possible, i really dont know so i cannot with certainity claim it. Those are speculations, but i would find it very unusual and very interesting if romani are aware of that tradition and carry it. Romani were not even aware they are from india until europeans found out and told them so. When they arrived to europe they claimed to be from "little egypt" where they resided before or on the island of crete.

[Jingle Bell]

hm,what does quinhetist means,i think it means quinhetista right,so if you refer to colonizers i think they were atlantid but that could have been other phenos back then too i guess

Quinhentist were the Portugueses Pos Reconquista (Sec XVI), Portugal still had a numerous Jewish/Morisco population when the colonization started, Portugal would just be homogenous Christian/Cristiano Viejo by the end of Sec XVII or XVIII with the explusion of Jews/Conversos to Brazil, Ottoman Empire and North Africa

[Melkiirs]

Romani are thousand years out of india, they dont even have any memory of being in india, i doubt they would carry and know even such a tradition. But it might be possible, i really dont know so i cannot with certainity claim it. Those are speculations, but i would find it very unusual and very interesting if romani are aware of that tradition and carry it. Romani were not even aware they are from india until europeans found out and told them so. When they arrived to europe they claimed to be from "little egypt" where they resided before or on the island of crete.

I found this:

“ The origins of the Roma, as many know, are subject to vociferous debate, but it seems likely that they originated in India, migrating westward through Persia in the early Middle Ages. By the 1600s they had spread throughout Europe, although they frequently faced persecution and expulsion.

Could they have brought henna with them from India? It's possible, but unlikely, since (as I explore in this post and this one) henna did not become commonly used in India until the very late Middle Ages, centuries after we believe the Roma left. Could they have picked up henna in Persia? It's certainly possible, although we lack any historical documentation. It's more likely, in my opinion, that the use of henna was a practice that developed in the Ottoman Empire; my reasons will become clear below.

I haven't been able to find records of Romani henna use prior to the 20th century, although I suspect this is largely due to the paucity of (available) sources combined with my own unfamiliarity with Romani Studies. By the 1900s, though, it appears that henna was used among Roma communities in south-east Europe and the Balkans as a regular cosmetic for hair, nails, and skin, as well as for weddings and celebrations. For example, Robert Scott Macfie recorded in 1913 that Roma women in Athens dyed their hair and nails with henna (1913: 43), and Juliette de Baïracli Levy described in the early 50s how Elif, a Roma girl in Turkey, "stained the palms of her hands and soles of her feet red with henna... in honour of my parting visit" (1952: 13). Xoraxane (Muslim Roma) in Bulgaria still henna their hands for the end of Ramadan, known as Sheker Bayram, "The Festival of Sweets" (Marushiakova 1997: 140; Kjučukov 1998: 60).
“
http://eshkolhakofer.blogspot.com/2015/02/o-drom-on-road-henna-among-european-roma.html?m=1

Henna dyeing of the body was a documented practice among Balkan Romani even if it’s origin is uncertain. Maybe the custom reached them from Turkey instead of South Asia directly.

[Sarin]

I found this:

http://eshkolhakofer.blogspot.com/2015/02/o-drom-on-road-henna-among-european-roma.html?m=1

Henna dyeing of the body was a documented practice among Balkan Romani even if it’s origin is uncertain. Maybe the custom reached them from Turkey instead of South Asia directly.

Have came across enough Muslims (usually 50+ yrs) in India with henna applied on beard that it seem like a tradition among them (or may be certain sect idk) .

[Mortimer]

I found this:

http://eshkolhakofer.blogspot.com/2015/02/o-drom-on-road-henna-among-european-roma.html?m=1

Henna dyeing of the body was a documented practice among Balkan Romani even if it’s origin is uncertain. Maybe the custom reached them from Turkey instead of South Asia directly.

Very interesting, it is a shame me as romani didnt know that.

[Mortimer]

Have came across enough Muslims (usually 50+ yrs) in India with henna applied on beard that it seem like a tradition among them (or may be certain sect idk) .

I once heard the prophet had a red beard, but some claim it was dyed with henna.

[alnortedelsur]

Among Spaniards, not very common, but you can come across with some few Spanish redheads every once in a while.

[tropicalslavic]

I've met a small handful of any kind of Slavic people with red hair, mostly West and East Slavic. I can recall one Czech, one Pole, and one Russian. No South Slavic people. It's so rare you'd remember the individuals who have it. Plenty of red beards in my family though for some reason... with blonde or medium brown hair.

[Italicus]

Russki asked me to post details regarding the difference between Ethnic Russians and native Volga-Ural populations overall in rufosity. Although I'm not Russian I agreed to post this on his behalf.

In 1921 the American Relief Administration which was active in the Soviet Tatar Republic decided to carry out a survey of the physical development of children of different nationalities living in the region in Kazan and county towns. In addition to the main focus of weight and sitting height to determine malnutrition, other observations including hair and eye color using Fischer and Martin scales were executed for a certain number of the surveyed children. For hair color 595 ethnic Russian schoolchildren, 287 Jewish schoochildren, and 280 Kazan Tatar schoolchildren were observed. The Jewish and Kazan Tatar schoochildren were both found the have about twice the proportion of clear red Fischer #1-3 (1.0% and 1.1% respectively) as the ethnic Russians (0.5%). So it is relatively rare among Russians as children.
https://books.google.com/books?id=t_5WAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA286&dq=%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B+%D1%80%D1% 83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5+%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8 0%D0%B5%D0%B8+%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5+%D0%B 2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8B+%220,5%25%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisqeLwpv-DAxV_EFkFHcKfDJ0Q6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q=%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B%20%D1%80%D1 %83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5%20%D0%B5%D0%B2%D 1%80%D0%B5%D0%B8%20%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5% 20%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8B%20%220%2C5% 25%22&f=false

The other later survey including ethnic Russians in the Volga-Ural region executed by Estonian anthropologist Karin Mark involving 558 adults for red hair found 0.7% clear red. If you exclude the three of four cases occurring in Igra rural Udmurtia likely of partial Udmurt ancestry (with the group being vastly more rufous than ethnic Russians) the percentage of clear red in adults is closer to 0.2%. Dr. Victor Kretzer found this same percentage of distinctive red among 500 ethnic Russians from Latgale, so it it likely fairly typical for adult Russians in general. 0.2% Fischer #1-3 is below the majority of non-Russian Volga-Ural ethnic groups based on Mark's work, so it is the region overall and not just specific groups which are relatively rufous in a Russian context.
https://dspace.ut.ee/items/b83366fa-5f23-4b9f-913b-393e0485d5a2

Russki made a thread last summer about Udmurts having elevated Yamnaya admixture relative to typical Eastern Europeans and Baltic genetic drift reducing rufosity in the region:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?374293-Udmurts-are-3-4-NW-European-1-4-East-Asian

I assume he suspects that this possibility is not limited to Udmurts and shared to a certain degree between populations with native Volga-Ural ancestry before Russian settlement.

Hey, it's been a while since I've posted on this thread. But would you say this map is accurate regarding red hair in the UK? (Not the percentage of red heads, but MC1R carriers.)

126871

[Melkiirs]

Hey, it's been a while since I've posted on this thread. But would you say this map is accurate regarding red hair in the UK? (Not the percentage of red heads, but MC1R carriers.)

126871

For carrier rate (twice allele frequency) of three most studied variants R151C (rs1805007), R160W (rs1805008), and D294H (rs1805009) it is likely fairly accurate. There are three other R variants non-negligible in the British population (namely rs1805006, rs11547464, and rs1110400, with the last case being somewhat borderline R) that although excluded by the BritainsDNA study could bring the carrier rate up even higher. It is really more like a 50% carrier rate in Ireland for example which is around the global maximum. More relevant than overall carrier rate of R variants in some respects is the frequency of the most penetrant widespread variant R151C which accounts for the significant difference in the incidence of bright red between Anglo-Celtic Australians or English and Swedes despite a similar overall carrier rate just above 40%. Red-blond shades which are notably more common in Scandinavian adults than those from most of Germany or Central Europe are not universally deemed red and can be counted as just fair by some sources.

[Gallop]

Well, I have started to see them or become aware that they exist since I am in this wonderful socio-cultural forum, they were totally unnoticed, I did not even notice them, but now after this socio-cultural wandering in TA and becoming aware I have seen that there are more than I imagined, within a minimum of course.

[Italicus]

For carrier rate (twice allele frequency) of three most studied variants R151C (rs1805007), R160W (rs180508), and D294H (rs1805009) it is accurate. There are three other R variants non-negligible in the British population (namely rs1805006, rs11547464, and rs1110400, with the last case being somewhat borderline R) that although excluded by the BritainsDNA study could bring the carrier rate up even higher. It is really more like a 50% carrier rate in Ireland for example which is around the global maximum. More relevant than overall carrier rate of R variants in some respects is the frequency of the most widespread and penetrant variant R151C which accounts for the significant difference in the incidence of bright red between Anglo-Celtic Australians or English and Swedes despite a similar overall carrier rate just above 40%. Red-blond shades which are notably more common in Scandinavian adults than those from most of Germany or Central Europe are not universally deemed red and can be counted as just fair by some sources.

Would you say that North England and Wales have the same rate of redheads as Scotland and Ireland do? Sorry for the endless questions, I'm just very interested lol.

[Melkiirs]

Would you say that North England and Wales have the same rate of redheads as Scotland and Ireland do? Sorry for the endless questions, I'm just very interested lol.

About 5% of adolescent Insular Celts have distinctly red hair clearly distinguishable from golden blond or chestnut. Areas of England with more Iron Age British admixture will generally be closer to Insular Celts in rufosity. Cumbria in the far
north is at the high end of the Iron Age component in England so it is no surprise that the E. Sunderland found a quite high incidence of rufosity there. England overall is 3-4% distinctive red and some parts of the Southeast like Surrey (Barbara Freire-Marreco study) are no more red-haired than the Dutch. The 4.2% red found in Hooton & Dupertuis’ Irish male series would be higher if only adolescent males were surveyed because 5.9% of a relatively limited selected group of age 15-19 subjects were found red-haired. Wales had historically less internal migration (North Welsh and South Welsh are quite distinct genetically for such a small nation) than Scotland or Ireland so there may be more variation between localities (Fleures and T. C. James study). This relative isolation could possibly account for a preponderance of very bright red hair among certain Welsh localities reflected in the findings of E. Sunderland.

To answer your question, more or less yes.

[Italicus]

About 5% of adolescent Insular Celts have distinctly red hair clearly distinguishable from golden blond or chestnut. Areas of England with more Iron Age British admixture will generally be closer to Insular Celts in rufosity. Cumbria in the far
north is at the high end of the Iron Age component in England so it is no surprise that the E. Sunderland found a quite high incidence of rufosity there. England overall is 3-4% distinctive red and some parts of the Southeast like Surrey (Barbara Freire-Marreco study) are no more red-haired than the Dutch. The 4.2% red found in Hooton & Dupertuis’ Irish male series would be higher if only adolescent males were surveyed because 5.9% of a relatively limited selected group of age 15-19 subjects were found red-haired. Wales had historically less internal migration (North Welsh and South Welsh are quite distinct genetically for such a small nation) than Scotland or Ireland so there may be more variation between localities (Fleures and T. C. James study). This relative isolation could possibly account for a preponderance of very bright red hair among certain Welsh localities.

To answer your question, more or less yes.

What I find very interesting is that Yorkshire has a lot of red hair, despite being half Anglo Saxon and a quarter French Iron Age/Gaulish genetically, specifically the East and North Riding of Yorkshire.

[Melkiirs]

What I find very interesting is that Yorkshire has a lot of red hair, despite being half Anglo Saxon and a quarter French Iron Age/Gaulish genetically, specifically the East and North Riding of Yorkshire.

East Anglia and Lincolnshire like Yorkshire are blonder than the English average. E. Sunderland encouraged skepticism at the high incidence of rufous reflectance in the area because the R statistic measure was more effective at distinguishing brunet shades from red than fair shades. Thus much of the red shades found in military personal from that area likely verged on golden blond. Reddish-blond was likely quite common amongst the Anglo-Saxons and is to this day in continental North Sea Germanic populations. Deeper red shades are much more associated with native Iron Age British.

[Italicus]

East Anglia and Lincolnshire like Yorkshire are blonder than the English average. E. Sunderland encouraged skepticism at the high incidence of rufous reflectance in the area because the R statistic measure was more effective at distinguishing brunet shades from red than fair shades. Thus much of the red shades found in military personal from that area likely verged on golden blond. Reddish-blond was likely quite common amongst the Anglo-Saxons and is to this day in continental North Sea Germanic populations. Deeper red shades are much more associated with native Iron Age British.

I thought red shades were associated with Bronze Age British, but I could be mistaken. I have a theory on to how red hair is prevalent in East and North Yorkshire despite the high amount of Germanic ancestry. I think it's because Germanic genes were introduced gradually rather tan suddenly. Anglo Saxon settlement wasn't as heavy as in the rest of Britain, allowing red hair to still proliferate just like the rest of North Britain. Then the Norse arrived, contributing a significant amount of DNA, not replacing but rather gradually mixing with the population. The result is a heavily Germanic group with a great amount of rufosity. I could be wrong though.

[Incal]

Extremely rare.

[Melkiirs]

I thought red shades were associated with Bronze Age British, but I could be mistaken. I have a theory on to how red hair is prevalent in East and North Yorkshire despite the high amount of Germanic ancestry. I think it's because Germanic genes were introduced gradually rather tan suddenly. Anglo Saxon settlement wasn't as heavy as in the rest of Britain, allowing red hair to still proliferate just like the rest of North Britain. Then the Norse arrived, contributing a significant amount of DNA, not replacing but rather gradually mixing with the population. The result is a Germanic group with a great amount of rufosity. I could be wrong though.

The Bronze Age Bell Beakers settling in the British Isles were not as red-haired as their Insular Celtic closest descendants today. Rather due to selective factors the element increased significantly over time which is the primary reason why modern Insular Celts like Irish are more distinctly red-haired than any continental Western Europeans.

Gene flow from Denmark and Lower Saxony would have contained a significant rufous element just a weaker one due the less penetrant variant R160W being more common in Germanics. Beddoe found a high percentage (5.8%) red shades in Yorkshire but he included red-blond hair. Those from above the Danelaw in former Strathclyde and Northumbria with more of the Iron Age British component likely have more distinctly red hair. R151C is the more penetrant variant significantly more frequent in British Isles populations especially Insular Celts than typical Germanics.

[Italicus]

The Bronze Age Bell Beakers settling in the British Isles were not as red-haired as their Insular Celtic closest descendants today. Rather due to selective factors the element increased significantly over time which is the primary reason why modern Insular Celts like Irish are more distinctly red-haired than any continental Western Europeans.

Gene flow from Denmark and Lower Saxony would have contained a significant rufous element just a weaker one due the less penetrant variant R160W being more common in Germanics. Beddoe found a high percentage (5.8%) red shades in Yorkshire but he included red-blond hair. Those from above the Danelaw in former Strathclyde and Northumbria with more of the Iron Age British component likely have more distinctly red hair. R151C is the more penetrant variant significantly more frequent in British Isles populations especially Insular Celts than typical Germanics.

What you say lines up with this map very well. R151C is also found in relatively high amounts in West Norway, just like you said earlier. So basically what youre getting at in that the East and North Ridings of Yorkshire dont have as much bright red hair as the rest of North Britain, Wales and Ireland? And R151C is responsible for the firey ginger color whereas R160W is responsible for strawberry blond and auburn, correct? 126876

[Melkiirs]

What you say lines up with this map very well. R151C is also found in relatively high amounts in West Norway, just like you said earlier. So basically what youre getting at in that the East and North Ridings of Yorkshire dont have as much bright red hair as the rest of North Britain, Wales and Ireland? And R151C is responsible for the firey ginger color whereas R160W is responsible for strawberry blond and auburn, correct? 126876

According to 23&me (https://blog.23andme.com/articles/no-im-not-irish) only about 50% of customers with two copies of R160W have red hair although I’m not sure if a reddish cast like Grace with one copy has is included in that. Beowulf with one copy of R160H with only slightly higher penetrance than R160W has a light auburn shade around Fischer-Saller III. Sacha also with one copy for that variant has deep brunette hair that photobleaches to red-brown. A variety of outcomes can happen but the presence of R151C will be more impactful than other variants.

[Beo242]

126927
126928
126929

Im ginger a little bit(only with long hair). I have 7 relatives with Red Pigment from shades to Orange color

[reboun]

1-2%

[Melkiirs]

126927
126928
126929

Im ginger a little bit(only with long hair). I have 7 relatives with Red Pigment from shades to Orange color

Do you know if you carry any relevant variants? I assume you tested as you already know your Y-DNA haplogroup. Your hair looks like a light golden brownish near golden blond so definitely a bit rufous.

[Kess]

Rare. Red beard is a bit more common than red hair.

[Beo242]

Yes, i carried two variants of MC1R: RS1805005 and RS1805007
My father in law has very strong red shades and his son(my wifes brother) also has it
I Suppose that maybe one of our kids could be redhead. But it's a random

[Sora]

According to a statics on Turkish people I've seen, only 1% of Turkey is natural redhead, which corresponds to 850.000 individuals of 85M Turkey

I wish I was one of those 850.000 individualstoo...

[DraviXi99]

According to a statics on Turkish people I've seen, only 1% of Turkey is natural redhead, which corresponds to 850.000 individuals of 85M Turkey

I wish I was one of those 850.000 individualstoo...

What about blondes

[Benyzero]

rare

[Melkiirs]

What about blondes

Western Turks are at least as light haired as most Greeks, but other groups are generally darker. Fair and red-haired Turks are concentrated in the Dardanelles and Aegean regions.

Here is the table from Wagenseil‘s study of Anatolian Turks:
https://i.ibb.co/drc95CH/138-B2-FC2-9-B2-D-4347-B51-C-6-FF641-A0-C17-B.jpg (https://ibb.co/pxPDLVk)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25749062

[DraviXi99]

Western Turks are at least as light haired as most Greeks, but other groups are generally darker. Fair and red-haired Turks are concentrated in the Dardanelles and Aegean regions.

Here is the table from Wagenseil‘s study of Anatolian Turks:
https://i.ibb.co/drc95CH/138-B2-FC2-9-B2-D-4347-B51-C-6-FF641-A0-C17-B.jpg (https://ibb.co/pxPDLVk)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25749062

Interesting,i have search the word turks on google like 1 or 2 hours ago and just remembered now (lol) on my pc and it showed up saying that light hair and light eyes are common in turkey,i dont know why though.

[Melkiirs]

Interesting,i have search the word turks on google like 1 or 2 hours ago and just remembered now (lol) on my pc and it showed up saying that light hair and light eyes are common in turkey,i dont know why though.

Western Turks have the most European (mainly Balkan) admixture of Turkish groups so it is not surprising they might have somewhat more overlap in pigmentation with the Balkans than Turks at large.

[Sora]

What about blondes

They're more than redheads. iirc they're only 4% of Turkey, approximately 3M people

[Beowulf]

This is a bit off topic but i was checking my great grandma's raw data for fun and i found that she also carries one allele of MC1R

rs1805006 A/C


this is what she got

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs1805006


pretty interesting since her natural hair colour is dark blonde


my paternal grandma didn't inherited it from her

[Tooting Carmen]

Among the British maybe 5% or so (though in some places higher). Among Colombians well below 1%.

[Melkiirs]

This is a bit off topic but i was checking my great grandma's raw data for fun and i found that she also carries one allele of MC1R

rs1805006 A/C


this is what she got

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs1805006


pretty interesting since her natural hair colour is dark blonde


my paternal grandma didn't inherited it from her

Not exactly a surprising phenotype as just 1-2% of UK Biobank participants with that genotype report red hair. It is also a 1-2% chance based on the UK Biobank given your MC1R genotype alone. You have two copies of the IRF4 variant at rs12203592 which was found to have some positive association with red hair (OR of 1.26) in an Icelandic population with the 2013 Praetorius et al study. Even if much less so than the R142H R variant that may have impacted your outcome.

Out of curiosity how many of your relatives have tested so far? You have multiple generations to compare with which is interesting.

[Beowulf]

Not exactly a surprising phenotype as just 1-2% of UK Biobank participants with that genotype report red hair. It is also a 1-2% chance based on the UK Biobank given your MC1R genotype alone. You also have two copies of the IRF4 variant at rs12203592 which was found to have some positive association with red hair (OR of 1.26) in an Icelandic population with the 2013 Praetorius et al study. Even if much less so than the R142H R variant that may have impacted your outcome.

Out of curiosity how many of your relatives have tested so far? You have multiple generations to compare with which is interesting.


As much i have some second cousins that have done the DNA test.