G25 Feiichy Late Antiquity calculator for Germans and Czechs scaled

[rothaer]

I’m entiteled to present the new

G25 Feiichy Late Antiquity calculator for Germans and Czechs scaled.

This is the source:


Germanic,0.119566,0.1309802,0.0628763,0.0519957,0. 0403991,0.0204984,0.0029322,0.0072008,0.0036396,-0.0015159,-0.0052739,0.0048639,-0.0090684,-0.0108503,0.021015,0.0076992,-0.006057,-0.0001612,0.0045023,0.0037916,0.0076428,0.0059354, 0.0006975,0.0160564,0.0000898
Celtic-like,0.129379,0.150637,0.0452547,0.0050603,0.04359 8,0.0002787,0.0039167,0.0047687,0.015203,0.020957,-0.0032477,0.009841,-0.0111003,-0.0027527,-0.0009953,-0.0055247,-0.0043897,0.0054053,0.0046507,-0.0032517,0.0003743,0.0010717,-0.0022183,-0.0013653,-0.001477
Balto-Slavic,0.1279662,0.1249966,0.075023,0.0689571,0.04 18473,0.0255689,0.0087654,0.0126034,-0.0002176,-0.0258543,-0.0022941,-0.0105768,0.0166246,0.0219962,-0.0097517,0.0010522,0.0041806,-0.0009892,0.003426,0.0006918,-0.0038416,-0.0048382,0.0071248,-0.0055916,0.0018268


Just for information: The source is averaged by the following ancient DNA samples that have been selected for this purpose with some consideration:


Germany_Liebenau_Saxon_EMedieval:LBU006_noUDG,0.11 61,0.138112,0.061094,0.066861,0.038469,0.014781,0. 017626,0.000231,0.001023,-0.003098,-0.015914,0.001499,-0.017988,-0.023946,0.016151,0.023336,-0.000913,0.006208,0.008925,0.015007,0,0.007296,-0.010476,0.013496,-0.005748 Germany_Hiddestorf_Saxon_EMedieval:HID001.A_noUDG, 0.130897,0.135065,0.066373,0.059109,0.043393,0.020 08,0.004935,0.011769,0.006749,-0.005832,-0.006658,0.006894,-0.000743,-0.004129,0.013029,0.016043,-0.013169,0.00038,-0.003017,0.003752,0.009234,0.01014,0.002588,0.0144 6,-0.007664 Germany_Hiddestorf_Saxon_EMedieval:HID002.A_noUDG, 0.127482,0.131003,0.061848,0.05814,0.03416,0.02788 9,0.006815,0.00923,-0.002659,-0.006925,-0.003735,0.00045,-0.008176,-0.001514,0.024022,-0.003182,-0.02725,-0.003421,0.00264,0.005753,0.003494,0.0115,0.007765 ,0.012652,-0.00479 Germany_Hiddestorf_Saxon_EMedieval:HID003_noUDG,0. 129758,0.121864,0.077687,0.066538,0.03693,0.029841 ,-0.006345,-0.006923,-0.004909,-0.002916,0.005034,0.012589,-0.005798,-0.006606,0.022665,0.011005,-0.008214,-0.00076,0.01257,0.01013,0.000749,0.011747,-0.005053,0.0194,-0.002634 Germany_Hiddestorf_Saxon_EMedieval:HID004_noUDG,0. 122929,0.127957,0.071653,0.060724,0.038469,0.02147 5,0.0047,0.010615,0.013703,0.003827,-0.000974,0.006294,-0.015461,-0.01101,0.015065,0.013524,-0.002086,0.004054,-0.006662,-0.000875,-0.004367,0.004081,-0.002835,0.025184,0.002754 Germany_Issendorf_Saxon_EMedieval:ISS001_noUDG,0.1 06994,0.12491,0.073916,0.040375,0.040931,0.023427,-0.00235,0.013153,0.018816,-0.010934,-0.009256,0.004496,-0.010109,-0.009083,0.019137,0.003845,-0.005867,-0.005954,-0.003394,0.010755,0.025455,-0.006183,-0.006779,0.00976,-0.001916 Germany_Issendorf_Saxon_EMedieval:ISS002_noUDG,0.1 35449,0.126941,0.073161,0.058786,0.042777,0.022869 ,0.009165,0.013846,0.001227,-0.014943,-0.005846,0.006145,-0.002825,-0.012937,0.014386,-0.000663,-0.006519,0.005194,-0.005028,0.011255,0.008111,0.011871,0.016269,0.008 796,-0.005029 Germany_EMedieval_Alemanic:NIEcap1,0.134311,0.1299 88,0.06675,0.049742,0.037238,0.019522,0.011281,0.0 06231,0.006954,0.000547,-0.003735,0.007793,-0.006244,-0.020643,0.016151,0.01485,0.006389,-0.00152,-0.003268,0.004502,0.005865,0.004081,0.004683,0.014 942,0.000359 Germany_EMedieval_Alemanic:NIEcap12c,0.120652,0.13 2019,0.068636,0.059432,0.03139,0.015339,0.00799,0. 01223,-0.001636,0.00164,-0.007957,0.008093,-0.014271,-0.005367,0.016694,0.00769,-0.003651,0.003801,0.006662,0.001376,0.007986,0.008 408,-0.006409,0.018075,0.002874 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU001.A_noUDG,0.11 2685,0.135065,0.059962,0.048127,0.053241,0.012829,-0.004465,0.008077,0.002454,0.002551,-0.007795,-0.00015,-0.003122,-0.00289,0.017372,0.015513,-0.006128,-0.002534,0.007668,-0.001251,0.004742,0.01051,-0.002958,0.016267,0.001796 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU002.A_noUDG,0.10 6994,0.126941,0.058454,0.047481,0.047701,0.016176,-0.00141,0.009,0.004909,0,0.004547,-0.000599,-0.015907,-0.008945,0.025244,0.008221,-0.009257,0.006714,0.004525,0.007629,0.009483,0.005 564,-0.005053,0.015303,-0.003233 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU003.A_noUDG,0.12 1791,0.129988,0.058831,0.054264,0.036622,0.023706, 0.0047,0.004615,0.000205,-0.002734,-0.011692,0.007194,-0.005798,-0.017616,0.021037,0.018828,0.009388,0.008235,0.004 148,0.004877,0.004367,0.006183,-0.000739,0.014942,-0.001437 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU004.A_noUDG,0.12 4067,0.13405,0.059585,0.047481,0.039084,0.01506,0. 000705,0.004615,0.004909,-0.004009,0.000325,0.004646,-0.00773,-0.011836,0.023887,0.013126,-0.005998,-0.011275,0.00352,0.010755,0.003119,0.008779,-0.00493,0.020123,0.011256 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU005.A_noUDG,0.10 6994,0.125926,0.067505,0.052649,0.026774,0.021196, 0.005875,0.007615,0.003886,-0.000911,-0.017376,-0.00015,-0.009812,-0.021744,0.016422,0.023866,0.004955,-0.005574,0.00993,0.010755,0.011854,0.006183,0.0022 18,0.008435,-0.006227 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU006.A_noUDG,0.11 1547,0.129988,0.062225,0.052326,0.039392,0.0251,-0.001175,0.010615,0.002045,0.000547,-0.004872,0.009891,-0.010258,-0.006606,0.024294,-0.005701,-0.027381,0.00228,0.002514,5.00E-04,0.002246,0.010881,0.012325,0.010965,-0.001676 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU007.A_noUDG,0.11 4961,0.135065,0.059208,0.044574,0.038161,0.014502,-0.00517,-0.004615,-0.000818,-0.005103,-0.00341,0.006145,-0.009663,-0.010046,0.025108,0.019093,0.008996,0,0.00176,0.00 7003,0.004243,0.000124,0.010106,0.02422,0.001437 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU009.A_noUDG,0.11 7238,0.136081,0.063356,0.050388,0.048624,0.022869, 0.001175,0.014769,0.012271,-0.000729,-0.005034,0.005845,-0.020218,-0.011423,0.023615,0.01127,-0.019297,0.00076,0.011816,-0.001626,0.014225,0.00507,-0.005053,0.009399,0.009101 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU011.A_noUDG,0.10 6994,0.135065,0.064111,0.057817,0.032929,0.022032,-0.00517,0.015461,0.007363,-0.000729,-0.001949,0.015586,-0.01115,-0.007019,0.028908,0.00358,-0.008084,-0.005828,-0.000628,0.001626,0.014474,0.004081,-0.00456,0.01217,0.000479 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU012.A_noUDG,0.11 4961,0.131003,0.065242,0.056202,0.044931,0.024263, 0.001645,0.011999,0.00409,-0.007289,-0.008444,0.009591,-0.00892,-0.011698,0.027551,0.005834,0.002347,-0.000633,-0.000503,0.000875,0.016596,0.005441,-0.005669,0.025546,0.001916 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU013.A_noUDG,0.11 8376,0.129988,0.059208,0.042959,0.040623,0.017849, 0.002585,0.008307,0.005727,0,-0.00065,0.008393,-0.008028,-0.003853,0.022122,0.001591,-0.002347,0.004941,0.010182,0.001751,0.007986,0.007 543,0.002711,0.014942,-0.001317 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU015.A_noUDG,0.10 8132,0.126941,0.061094,0.054587,0.047086,0.018686, 0.000235,0.005538,0.007772,-0.005285,-0.013478,0.004496,-0.008176,-0.012248,0.02633,0.002387,-0.023469,-0.001647,0.010559,0.007504,0.010606,0.00371,0.0029 58,0.015906,0.006347 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU016.A_noUDG,0.11 8376,0.128972,0.054682,0.045866,0.047086,0.024263, 0.00094,0.004846,0.0045,0.00164,-0.002761,0.004796,-0.003419,-0.007707,0.018729,0.008486,0.00013,-0.004054,0.008799,0.013757,0.004742,0.004699,0.006 902,0.010604,0.001197 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU017.A_noUDG,0.12 0652,0.128972,0.051288,0.051034,0.033852,0.014502, 0.003055,0.002538,-0.003272,0.002369,0.00065,0.005245,-0.011744,-0.01445,0.019815,0.00305,-0.000522,0.006841,0.004777,0.003877,0.01148,0.0017 31,-0.000986,0.011568,0.001796 Germany_Drantum_Saxon_Medieval:DRU018.A_noUDG,0.12 0652,0.128972,0.052043,0.042313,0.042162,0.018965, 0.001175,0.013615,0.009613,0.003462,-0.008282,0.001948,-0.014866,-0.004266,0.022937,-0.000663,-0.006258,0.005194,0.002388,0.001126,0.0141,0.00507 ,-0.000246,0.007471,0.000239 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN002.A_noUDG,0.1252 05,0.136081,0.064865,0.050711,0.044008,0.025658,0. 01034,0.006231,-0.009613,-0.000729,-0.006171,-0.000899,-0.002676,-0.013762,0.020358,0.005701,-0.002999,-0.000253,0.009302,0.001126,0.005241,0.008408,0.002 342,0.013375,-0.001437 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN005.A_noUDG,0.1195 14,0.123895,0.057322,0.049096,0.044316,0.01004,0.0 03055,-0.001385,0.003068,0.002369,-0.00341,0.002098,-0.005352,-0.007707,0.033794,0.012596,-0.002999,-0.005574,-0.000628,0.005878,0.004742,0.013478,0.005546,0.027 233,-0.005029 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN006.A_noUDG,0.1126 85,0.128972,0.064865,0.053618,0.034776,0.017291,0. 00282,0.01823,-0.002045,-0.005285,-0.007307,0.000899,-0.015312,-0.018304,0.024973,0.016971,0.004563,-0.003801,0.01081,0.004502,0.010981,-0.003586,0.008381,0.020846,-0.012454 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN007.A_noUDG,0.1138 23,0.138112,0.075424,0.056848,0.03693,0.03263,0.00 094,0.012461,0.003477,-0.00328,-0.011854,0.005695,-0.010555,-0.009358,0.025108,-0.004508,-0.029988,-0.001774,0.00729,0.001751,0.006613,0.009398,0.0018 49,0.018075,0.005269 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN009.A_noUDG,0.1229 29,0.138112,0.056945,0.049419,0.038776,0.027052,-0.00188,0.008538,0.005931,-0.014579,-0.005196,0.004046,-0.011001,-0.026561,0.029587,0.022275,-0.004042,0.00152,0.006662,0.006378,0.00262,0.00865 6,-0.003821,0.013014,0.002994 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN010.A_noUDG,0.1115 47,0.132019,0.057322,0.038114,0.042469,0.019801,0. 00188,0.003923,0.004295,0.010205,-0.006008,0.010191,-0.010406,-0.015414,0.011943,0.010475,0.011474,0.000127,0.003 268,-0.002376,0.014225,0.003091,-0.002588,0.005543,0.00479 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN011.A_noUDG,0.1172 38,0.141159,0.064865,0.046189,0.035391,0.01757,0.0 0517,0.008538,-0.009613,0.003827,-0.000162,0.001049,-0.00669,-0.008808,0.019001,-0.000928,-0.019036,-0.00114,0.009804,0.011506,0.004617,0.000866,-0.001725,0.018918,-0.005987 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN012.A_noUDG,0.1104 08,0.119832,0.069013,0.062662,0.045239,0.030957,0. 011986,0.003,0.011249,-0.000364,0,-0.009442,0.001189,-0.016102,0.015879,0.000265,-0.016168,-0.005321,0.014204,-0.00988,0.007112,0.019661,0.004437,0.02169,0.00143 7 Germany_Dunum_Saxon_Medieval:DUN013.A_noUDG,0.1138 23,0.127957,0.067882,0.042959,0.041854,0.018407,0. 001175,0.008769,0.000818,0.00328,0.003897,0.008992 ,-0.008176,-0.015689,0.020765,0.006497,0.003129,0.004307,0.007 29,0.006878,0.006364,-0.001237,0.008751,0.014821,-0.00467 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN002_noUDG,0.126 344,0.12491,0.061094,0.055556,0.041546,0.025658,0. 00376,0.005538,0.001432,-0.013485,-0.005684,0.002398,-0.007136,-0.003853,0.024565,0.003182,-0.007171,0.00266,0.001634,0.005878,0.005116,-0.002597,0.003944,0.021087,-0.002634 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN004_noUDG,0.136 588,0.131003,0.059585,0.053618,0.046162,0.028447,0 .00329,0.008307,0.008181,-0.002187,-0.00747,-0.001649,-0.008176,-0.005367,0.023208,0.002519,-0.00665,0.001647,0.005656,0.004502,0.006613,-0.009274,0.005423,0.020605,0.001317 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN005_noUDG,0.126 344,0.145221,0.057699,0.042959,0.0437,0.012271,0.0 00705,0.008307,0.013294,0.009841,-0.006333,0.000899,-0.002527,0.00055,0.018051,-0.000398,-0.021383,0.002154,0.001383,-0.005127,0.006988,0.011129,-0.009244,0.010845,0.001796 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN006_noUDG,0.130 897,0.135065,0.073916,0.059432,0.037238,0.022869,0 .00141,0.000231,-0.001841,-0.006378,-0.010718,-0.001049,-0.006541,-0.006744,0.018051,0.008088,-0.001956,0.000633,0.002765,-0.002501,0.006489,0.008903,-0.002711,0.016147,0.003952 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN007_noUDG,0.122 929,0.131003,0.061471,0.055556,0.035391,0.012271,0 .005405,0.002308,0.000818,-0.007472,-0.009256,0.006594,-0.013528,-0.012937,0.021172,0.00716,-0.00339,0.001014,0.00264,0.012256,0.012228,0.00445 1,0.004067,0.014219,0.006586 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN008_noUDG,0.121 791,0.121864,0.046386,0.041667,0.029852,0.017849,-0.001175,-0.000462,0.002659,0.004191,0.000487,0.007943,-0.003271,-0.017891,0.014251,0.014983,0.014342,-0.009248,-0.000754,0.001501,0.002246,0.003833,0.005793,0.018 798,-0.002994 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN010_noUDG,0.127 482,0.136081,0.04978,0.038437,0.036314,0.013666,0. 00141,0.009,0.002454,0.000547,-0.005196,0.007343,-0.009366,0.000963,0.017236,-0.01074,-0.017211,-0.004054,-0.002514,0.00025,0.00861,0.013849,-0.004067,0.020485,0.013412 Germany_Anderten_Saxon_Medieval:ADN011_noUDG,0.125 205,0.13405,0.068636,0.053618,0.048009,0.027052,0. 002585,0.009,0.006749,-0.002734,-0.003573,0.007044,-0.013528,-0.005643,0.023344,0.01127,-0.002868,0.005321,0.013324,-0.005503,0.01123,0.00915,0.000739,0.016388,-0.010418 Germany_Schortens_Saxon_EMedieval:SRS001.A_noUDG,0 .124067,0.138112,0.067127,0.057494,0.044931,0.0192 43,0.012221,0.013384,-0.006749,0.000547,-0.002923,0.009891,-0.022448,-0.018854,0.02918,-0.011005,-0.01695,-0.004434,0.006788,-0.008129,0.001996,0.003957,0.006039,0.020244,0.011 735 Germany_Schortens_Saxon_EMedieval:SRS003.A_noUDG,0 .106994,0.126941,0.056568,0.052972,0.037238,0.0158 97,0.007285,0.001154,0.015339,0.00492,-0.001461,0.009142,-0.009366,-0.015689,0.015065,0.004906,-0.010431,0.003167,0.006788,0.000125,0.011105,0.002 844,-0.000123,0.015183,-0.003113 Germany_Schortens_Saxon_EMedieval:SRS004.A_noUDG,0 .1161,0.121864,0.067882,0.059109,0.051394,0.02008,-0.00188,0.004384,0.005318,0.00492,-0.014453,0.005695,-0.003717,-0.012661,0.018458,0.024529,0.007432,-0.005448,0.001508,0.007003,0.010357,0.007666,-0.00912,0.024341,-0.000479

Austria_IA_LaTene:I11699,0.126344,0.155376,0.04940 3,0.006137,0.044008,0.001673,0.00893,0.008307,0.02 168,0.024055,-0.004709,0.01094,-0.009812,-0.00234,0.004072,-0.009414,-0.018906,0.00076,-0.001006,-0.003752,0.004118,0.000124,-0.000986,-0.005904,0.000239 Austria_IA_LaTene:I11701,0.12862,0.145221,0.036581 ,0.004199,0.040931,-0.004741,-0.000235,0.004384,0.007567,0.017312,-0.002598,0.007493,-0.016353,0.005367,0.0038,-0.012198,-0.015776,0.010262,0.009176,-0.005503,-0.004991,0.001731,0.00493,-0.001084,-0.00467 Austria_IA_LaTene:I11708,0.133173,0.151314,0.04978 ,0.004845,0.045855,0.003904,0.003055,0.001615,0.01 6362,0.021504,-0.002436,0.01109,-0.007136,-0.011285,-0.010858,0.005038,0.021513,0.005194,0.005782,-5.00E-04,0.001996,0.00136,-0.010599,0.002892,0

AUT_EMA:I15232__AD_838__Cov_68.37%,0.129758,0.1208 48,0.072784,0.05814,0.040623,0.026774,0.002115,0.0 14999,-0.006545,-0.011845,0.001137,-0.006444,0.01115,0.021882,-0.015744,0.005569,0.004303,0.003421,-0.003142,0.01113,-0.006613,-0.005688,0.00456,-0.000723,0.002155 Czech_Medieval:I20515,0.124067,0.132019,0.06675,0. 08075,0.046778,0.031794,0.009165,0.010846,0.002863 ,-0.031162,-0.003735,-0.015286,0.019177,0.018029,-0.017372,-0.00716,0.004303,0.000633,-0.006913,0.004752,-0.010232,0.002226,0.005793,-0.003012,0.002275 DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA_KRA001,0.129758,0.125 926,0.075424,0.072029,0.046778,0.026774,0.011986,0 .010384,-0.001636,-0.021322,-0.003085,-0.006294,0.008028,0.021194,-0.013843,0.013789,0.019036,-0.005701,0.00352,0.005378,0.004991,-0.008408,0.000986,-0.006145,0.001796 DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA_KRA009,0.126344,0.127 957,0.067127,0.070737,0.042162,0.02008,0.011281,0. 014999,-0.001023,-0.032802,-0.001949,-0.01124,0.017542,0.01968,-0.012893,0.007558,0.011604,0.00114,0.005782,0.0115 06,-0.010357,0.003091,0.007765,-0.008796,-0.001676 DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA_KRA011,0.125205,0.129 988,0.078818,0.072675,0.047701,0.027889,0.013161,0 .006692,0.005522,-0.020593,-0.00065,-0.009292,0.018583,0.027249,-0.011672,-0.010342,-0.006389,0.00266,0.008045,0.002876,-0.011729,-0.008037,0.007272,-0.003494,0.003952 CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835, 0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706 MA_Cedynia:VK212,0.124067,0.135065,0.075424,0.0720 29,0.038469,0.027052,0.011986,0.020538,0.00634,-0.027153,-0.006171,-0.01169,0.022002,0.031516,-0.016694,-0.01127,0.002347,0.003041,0.005028,-0.001501,-0.010606,0.004946,0.007518,-0.005422,0.00479 Medieval_Markowice:PCA0156,0.124067,0.119832,0.073 916,0.065892,0.03693,0.034582,0.003525,0.014769,-0.008999,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.02278,0.011893,0.033442,-0.017644,-0.005304,0.002868,0.001774,0.002765,-0.003877,0.001996,-0.012242,0.003574,-0.016026,0.003353 Medieval_Markowice:PCA0158,0.12862,0.126941,0.0682 59,0.055879,0.040623,0.02259,0.00611,0.009692,-0.0045,-0.030069,-0.000325,-0.012889,0.016799,0.027387,-0.013029,-0.013524,-0.010561,0.001014,0.014581,-0.007504,-0.004118,-0.001237,0.001479,-0.003615,0.007424 Medieval_Legowo:PCA0165,0.132035,0.117801,0.082589 ,0.084949,0.044316,0.030957,0.014571,0.01523,-0.002454,-0.019864,-0.006171,-0.020682,0.036422,0.029314,-0.003393,-0.010475,-0.004694,-0.012542,0.000503,-0.005878,-0.003993,-0.008779,0.005546,0.001807,0.002754 Medieval_Legowo:PCA0166,0.118376,0.132019,0.067505 ,0.077843,0.032621,0.044344,0.0047,0.014999,-0.006136,-0.03426,0.005684,-0.004946,0.010704,0.029864,0.000814,-0.019756,-0.008866,0.004054,0.009804,0.002501,-0.00262,-0.001607,0.013434,-0.011688,0.00946 Medieval_Legowo:PCA0167,0.121791,0.125926,0.080327 ,0.084303,0.041546,0.029562,0.00376,0.009923,0.001 432,-0.018588,-0.003897,-0.016635,0.015609,0.029176,-0.002579,0.003182,0.005346,0.005448,0.000754,-0.002001,-0.005241,0.001484,0.011092,-0.007953,-0.001078 Medieval_Legowo:PCA0169,0.130897,0.121864,0.084852 ,0.080427,0.0437,0.039045,0.022091,0.025845,0.0212 7,-0.033167,-0.006496,-0.012589,0.020812,0.022708,0.000271,0.008884,0.016 168,0.000507,0.017346,0.002001,0.003619,-0.013107,0.000739,-0.007712,0.008622 Medieval_Lad:PCA0181,0.135449,0.123895,0.068636,0. 073321,0.046162,0.028168,0.001175,0.015692,0.00265 9,-0.02442,0.000974,-0.009292,0.01665,0.0139,-0.029723,0.002784,-0.00013,-0.006334,-0.001508,-0.005253,-0.003244,0.000866,0.006532,-0.021328,-0.017244 Medieval_Lad:PCA0182,0.122929,0.131003,0.084852,0. 0646,0.043393,0.034861,0.007285,0.000923,0.008181,-0.033167,-0.008282,-0.015736,0.031367,0.025323,-0.016286,-0.007823,0.007171,-0.005194,0.005782,0.00963,-0.008984,-0.011747,-0.000246,-0.014821,-0.001437 Medieval_Lad:PCA0185,0.134311,0.116786,0.080327,0. 078812,0.036007,0.024542,0.00705,0.02123,0.008181,-0.032256,0.009094,-0.003147,0.004014,0.019405,-0.008822,0.001458,0.00339,-0.004561,0.008925,0.003752,-0.000125,-0.010634,0.012571,0.001446,0.014609 Medieval_Lad:PCA0187,0.136588,0.129988,0.064865,0. 06137,0.049855,0.01757,0.012926,0.009923,0.010022,-0.013303,-0.01023,-0.007044,0.007284,0.026699,-0.009908,-0.00305,0.001825,0.005194,0.005782,-0.01063,0.001622,-0.013849,-0.000493,-0.000602,0.015567 Medieval_Lad:PCA0189,0.129758,0.127957,0.062225,0. 077843,0.035699,0.03012,0.015981,0.020307,0.006749 ,-0.039363,-0.007307,-0.017534,0.005649,0.031103,-0.010993,0.005304,0.01017,-0.006334,0.012444,0.005503,-0.001248,0.002968,-0.000616,-0.005663,0.000838 Medieval_Lad:PCA0191,0.1161,0.136081,0.064111,0.04 8127,0.033852,0.022032,0.010105,0,0.001841,-0.020593,-0.005196,-0.019183,0.003568,0.025185,-0.005565,0.01074,-0.00013,-0.002154,0.001006,0.008004,0.006364,-0.019908,0.004067,-0.000843,-0.014011 Medieval_Lad:PCA0192,0.138864,0.123895,0.07203,0.0 57817,0.025851,0.019522,0.006815,0.019845,-0.008385,-0.019135,-0.006658,-0.003897,0.010555,0.023533,-0.020494,0.004773,0.022296,-0.0019,-0.010433,0.00963,0.004991,-0.010881,0.006162,-0.002289,-0.001197 Medieval_Lad:PCA0194,0.134311,0.11577,0.07995,0.07 0091,0.048932,0.027889,0.00564,0.003692,0.00859,-0.028429,-0.01153,-0.010341,0.016501,0.02835,-0.006786,0.004375,0.001565,0.003674,0.011187,-5e-04,-0.011605,-0.002597,0.008751,-0.009399,-0.002874 Medieval_Lad:PCA0197,0.124067,0.13405,0.074293,0.0 68153,0.042777,0.016733,0.017156,0.018461,0.000409 ,-0.031162,0.001949,-0.015436,0.015758,0.018441,-0.010993,0.00358,0.000782,0.001014,0.002388,-0.006628,0.006613,-0.000989,0.006162,-0.003615,0.010179 Medieval_Lad:PCA0198,0.127482,0.139128,0.06675,0.0 71706,0.040315,0.017012,0.012926,0.009461,-0.002454,-0.030798,0.001461,-0.006594,0.016055,0.007156,-0.009636,0.004773,-0.001434,0.003041,0.001885,0.003627,-0.014849,-0.009027,0.007025,-0.003615,0.004311 Medieval_Lad:PCA0199,0.129758,0.129988,0.076933,0. 081073,0.059703,0.02259,0.001175,0.008538,0.007158 ,-0.021504,0.004384,-0.001948,0.013379,0.016102,-0.013165,0.001591,0.013951,-0.008615,0.005028,0.009505,0,-0.008656,0.007765,-0.011809,-0.000958 Medieval_Lad:PCA0203,0.129758,0.126941,0.070144,0. 070414,0.033852,0.029562,0.00094,0.016153,0.00225,-0.022597,0.005846,-0.018284,0.014271,0.009496,-0.017236,0.009016,0.018384,-0.001647,-0.001885,0.006003,-0.003619,-0.008656,0.016022,0.003494,0.006586 Medieval_Lad:PCA0205,0.125205,0.129988,0.072784,0. 04522,0.01508,0.009761,0.017156,0.011769,-0.005318,-0.028976,-0.001624,-0.013788,0.015015,-0.000688,0.007057,-0.003315,-0.004955,0.002787,-0.000628,0.008379,-0.00287,0.014096,0.021938,0.010483,-0.016046 Medieval_Lad:PCA0206,0.122929,0.122879,0.080327,0. 070414,0.053548,0.017849,0.0047,0.003692,-0.00634,-0.034078,0.003248,-0.015137,0.013677,0.014863,-0.0057,0.015115,0.013299,0.005828,-0.005279,0.005002,-0.010232,0.001484,0.006902,-0.020846,0.018441 Medieval_Lad:PCA0211,0.130897,0.11577,0.077687,0.0 69445,0.051394,0.031794,0.002585,0.032076,-0.008999,-0.025878,-0.009581,-0.008243,0.017393,0.023671,-0.020765,-0.00053,0.015516,-0.012289,0.017221,-0.003126,-0.007612,-0.018424,0.016145,-0.006386,0.006466 Medieval_Oblaczkowo:PCA0216,0.127482,0.131003,0.07 731,0.082365,0.050471,0.022869,0.015746,0.00923,-0.005522,-0.022597,-0.006983,-0.005845,0.018434,0.047755,0.012079,-0.003978,-0.01004,0.006714,0.001508,0.000875,-0.003868,-0.004946,0.01861,-0.016147,0.002515 Medieval_Oblaczkowo:PCA0225,0.121791,0.119832,0.07 6933,0.066538,0.041238,0.016176,0.014806,0.024691,-0.009204,-0.037723,0.001624,-0.012739,0.04222,0.021882,-0.009772,-0.00053,0.008475,0.004561,0.006034,-0.01138,-0.004866,-0.01793,-0.004067,0.006145,0.006945 Medieval_Rumin:PCA0244,0.126344,0.113739,0.084852, 0.074613,0.032929,0.026495,0.004935,0.019845,0.011 453,-0.028064,-0.000162,-0.016485,0.015015,0.03124,0.003664,0.009016,0.0026 08,0.002407,-0.000251,-0.003627,-0.009608,-0.004451,0.013804,-0.008194,0.00455 Medieval_Rumin:PCA0246,0.127482,0.113739,0.089755, 0.061693,0.051086,0.036256,0.00047,0.016845,0.0089 99,-0.02278,0.012179,-0.013638,0.030178,0.018029,-0.0095,-0.012331,-0.014212,-0.001774,0.001634,0.003001,-0.002121,-0.006677,0.002342,-0.016147,0.005748 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0332,0.129758,0.119832 ,0.07467,0.046189,0.040931,0.020917,0.00846,0.0179 99,-0.007976,-0.01713,-0.01023,-0.013188,0.010109,0.021194,-0.019951,-0.000796,0.010952,0.000127,0.011439,0.000875,-0.013351,0.002102,-0.000246,-0.003615,-0.006945 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0333,0.124067,0.125926 ,0.09428,0.08075,0.044316,0.034582,0.018566,0.006,-0.001023,-0.035536,-0.004709,-0.008542,0.030029,0.024497,-0.014929,0.004508,0.03064,-0.00228,-0.001383,0.011756,0.009109,-0.008285,0.004314,-0.007109,0.006826 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0334,0.119514,0.131003 ,0.085984,0.068799,0.049855,0.030399,0.000705,0.00 5307,0.003272,-0.025878,-0.011692,-0.010491,-0.000149,0.017478,-0.001493,0.042031,0.025425,0.005701,0.007165,0.007 754,-0.005989,0.00136,0.005423,-0.008073,-0.017483 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0335,0.132035,0.12491, 0.065242,0.052003,0.038776,0.03012,0.012456,0.0191 53,-0.011862,-0.02442,-0.00341,-0.017834,0.026313,0.015138,-0.015065,0.010607,-0.011474,-0.005828,-0.000126,0.002751,0.004243,-0.00643,0.019103,-0.015785,-0.001557 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0339,0.121791,0.118817 ,0.060716,0.066215,0.04924,0.016455,0.012221,0.009 461,0.001023,-0.023144,-0.005196,-0.002398,0.008771,0.014588,-0.007872,-0.010209,-0.012908,-0.004941,0.006913,-0.007879,0.001622,-0.005812,0.012571,0.008314,0.003832 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0340,0.133173,0.118817 ,0.087492,0.070737,0.039084,0.027889,0.012926,0.00 9692,-0.001432,-0.028429,-0.00341,-0.011989,0.023042,0.026286,-0.008686,-0.000398,0.004955,-0.006968,0.002388,0.010505,0.001373,-0.01286,0.002095,-0.012652,0.005269 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0343,0.133173,0.123895 ,0.073161,0.076551,0.044008,0.019243,0.007285,0.01 823,-0.0045,-0.019317,0.005359,-0.002398,0.018731,0.027387,-0.016694,0.003182,-0.004303,0.003801,0.002514,-0.003377,-0.014974,-0.004699,0.013804,-0.004579,0.007305 Medieval_Ostrow_Lednicki:PCA0344,0.134311,0.121864 ,0.07467,0.065892,0.033852,0.021753,0.00705,0.0173 07,-0.009817,-0.034807,0.005359,-0.005245,0.019772,0.015827,-0.014251,0.003978,0.024903,-0.007981,-0.005154,-0.004127,-0.010731,0.006801,0.001849,-0.003735,-0.002754 Medieval_Dziekanowice:PCA0354,0.124067,0.127957,0. 084475,0.074936,0.040623,0.023148,0.011986,0.01223 ,-0.003886,-0.0277,-0.001461,-0.01094,0.023191,0.025323,-0.012893,-0.001458,0.010822,-0.003421,0.001257,-0.003377,-0.004617,-0.008656,0.007395,-0.011327,-0.003233 Medieval_Dziekanowice:PCA0359,0.140002,0.119832,0. 073539,0.075259,0.056318,0.027052,0.00564,0.014076 ,-0.003477,-0.034078,-0.008119,-0.003897,0.006392,0.02546,-0.002986,0.003845,0.01356,-0.002534,0.01169,0.003252,-0.000125,0.008656,-0.00456,-0.005904,0.002275 Medieval_Santok:PCA0376,0.132035,0.127957,0.07467, 0.073967,0.049548,0.020359,0.00047,-0.00923,-0.007363,-0.01877,0.001786,-0.028325,0.01219,0.018717,0.001357,0.003713,0.0084 75,-0.006588,0.005531,0.003502,-0.029323,-0.005688,-0.004437,0.00735,0.034847 Medieval_Santok:PCA0399,0.132035,0.128972,0.07731, 0.077843,0.035083,0.036535,0.008225,0.014538,0.003 477,-0.030069,-0.003573,-0.000749,0.022596,0.026836,-0.012215,-0.006497,-0.008214,-0.007601,0.000503,-0.012381,0.004492,0.003339,0.011462,-0.001807,-0.016645 Medieval_Santok:PCA0426,0.129758,0.108662,0.074293 ,0.056525,0.038776,0.021753,0.01034,-0.007846,0.004909,-0.018953,-0.012829,-0.002098,0.021258,0.019542,-0.000407,0.012066,-0.01369,0.004181,0.006285,-0.015257,-0.003619,-0.005688,0.011216,0.00494,0.002874 Medieval_Poznan:PCA0549,0.1161,0.123895,0.069767,0 .063954,0.029852,0.022869,0.013161,0.017768,-0.005113,-0.022233,0.002761,-0.008692,0.022299,0.013625,-0.007329,-0.007823,-0.012647,-0.003294,-0.003645,0.002626,0,-0.015086,0.006532,0.00723,0.00934 Medieval_Balczewo:PCA0551,0.127482,0.123895,0.0690 13,0.075259,0.054779,0.022032,0.001175,0.002308,-0.001023,-0.018224,-0.003735,-0.000899,0.017393,0.021882,-0.0076,-0.006232,-0.005607,0.003294,-0.00088,-0.010505,-0.004118,0.000247,0.027484,-0.022172,-0.018202


The calculator is designed for Germans and Czechs, it may also work for neighboring populations as far as they do not exhibit mentionable Insular Celtic, Finnic, Sami and ”woggier” components than the Central European Celtic (from Austria). Also, any people exhibiting other components than these three will not get suitable results.

The results seem to me very plausible.

Run with defaults.

Have fun!

EDIT: I edited the labels just. Sorry for that disturbance. All will now remain.

[Beowulf]

Target: Beowulf_Scaled
Distance: 0.0231% / 0.02314075
85.0 Celtic_IA
15.0 Germanic

The distance ain't that bad at all :)

[Feiichy]

It took some time to construct this; curious to see ethnic German results.

[Feiichy]

Target: Beowulf_Scaled
Distance: 0.0231% / 0.02314075
85.0 Celtic-like
15.0 Germanic

The distance ain't that bad at all :)

True, but it won't make sense for SW Euros nonetheless :)

[rothaer]

Target: rothaer_scaled
Distance: 1.5459% / 0.01545876
44.0 Balto-Slavic
41.6 Germanic
14.4 Celtic-like

Target: rothaer_wife2_scaled
Distance: 2.1127% / 0.02112666
67.2 Germanic
32.8 Balto-Slavic

[CrGrt]

Distance to: CR_simulated_g25_scaled
0.02337439 Celtic_IA
0.06050558 Germanic
0.10428126 Wendish-Baltic


Target: CR_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.7950% / 0.01795001
79.4 Celtic_IA
20.6 Germanic


Well that's expected, I'm only 1/2 German from Westfalen always showing as French on G25.

[Beowulf]

True, but it won't make sense for SW Euros nonetheless :)

If i add an Iberian sample i get this:

Target: Beowulf_Scaled
Distance: 0.0224% / 0.02236722
73.1 Celtic_IA
16.6 Germanic
10.3 Iberia

[Feiichy]

Distance to: CR_simulated_g25_scaled
0.02337439 Celtic-like
0.06050558 Germanic
0.10428126 Balto-Slavic

Target: CR_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.7950% / 0.01795001
79.4 Celtic-like
20.6 Germanic

Well that's expected, I'm only 1/2 German from Westfalen always showing as French on G25.

Westphalia is actually pretty high Germanic, but calculator won't work for half German half southern Euro.


Target: rothaer_scaled
Distance: 1.5459% / 0.01545876
44.0 Balto-Slavic
41.6 Germanic
14.4 Celtic-like

Target: rothaer_wife2_scaled
Distance: 2.1127% / 0.02112666
67.2 Germanic
32.8 Balto-Slavic

Looks fine!

[Katarzyna]

Target: Katarzyna_AncestryDNA(real)
Distance: 1.1750% / 0.01175038
86.8 Balto-Slavic
13.2 Germanic

That’s the most Slavic calc I had for a long time. Thanks <3

[HarveySuits]

How does it go from Balto Slavic to Wendish Baltic?

[HarveySuits]

Long distance but still it doesn't even bother picking up any slavic

Target: G_scaled
Distance: 7.2112% / 0.07211200
100.0 Celtic-like

Distance to: G_scaled
0.07211200 Celtic-like
0.12619514 Germanic
0.14478229 Balto-Slavic

[rothaer]

A very western German (Rhineland west of the Rhine river):

Target: Flamingo_pat_grandmother_scaled(Rheinland(½Köln½Vu lkaneifel))
Distance: 2.0214% / 0.02021407
61.8 Germanic
38.2 Celtic-like

[nittionia]

Target: nittionia_scaled
Distance: 2.3841% / 0.02384071
84.4 Germanic
15.6 Celtic-like

Target: nittioniasdad_scaled
Distance: 1.8974% / 0.01897450
56.8 Germanic
22.8 Celtic-like
20.4 Balto-Slavic

Target: nittioniasmom_scaled
Distance: 3.6376% / 0.03637559
87.2 Germanic
12.8 Celtic-like

[rothaer]

How does it go from Balto Slavic to Wendish Baltic?

Just a more suitable label. Forget about the prior labelling.

[Feiichy]

How does it go from Balto Slavic to Wendish Baltic?

I don't know why the label was changed. These samples do not represent ancient Balto-Slavs but medieval Wends and Balts from lands old Germans expanded into.

[HarveySuits]

A very western German (Rhineland west of the Rhine river):

Target: Flamingo_pat_grandmother_scaled(Rheinland(½Köln½Vu lkaneifel))
Distance: 2.0214% / 0.02021407
61.8 Germanic
38.2 Celtic-like

Where does the slavic stop do you know?

[Feiichy]

Just a more suitable label. Forget about the prior labelling.

:mad:

[rothaer]

From East Thuringia with a long paper trail and other relatives tested. He's the most Slavic among the local relatives but nevertheless real.

Target: East_Thuringia_scaled
Distance: 2.0424% / 0.02042406
59.8 Balto-Slavic
27.0 Celtic-like
13.2 Germanic

[Feiichy]

Where does the slavic stop do you know?

Def. west of Elbe-Saale line where was political border. Eastern Hesse and eastern Lower Saxony have some Slavic admixture too.

[nittionia]

Ok I changed my labels to the right ones

[rothaer]

A German from County Glatz and immediate neigbouring villages. This is in Central Silesia at the Bohemian border and the County Glatz till 1741 was even part of Bohemia.

Target: BE_scaled(Glatz/Frankenstein)
Distance: 1.9274% / 0.01927413
39.4 Balto-Slavic
34.6 Celtic-like
26.0 Germanic

[rothaer]

Ok I changed my labels to the right ones

Thanks, Nini! :thumb001:

[Feiichy]

Ok I changed my labels to the right ones

It does not work for Finnic admixed Scandinavians and people with British ancestry either.

[Kess]

Distance to: kesseras_simulated_g25_scaled
0.13877891 Celtic-like
0.15505870 Germanic
0.17109951 Balto-Slavic

Target: kesseras_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 13.8699% / 0.13869888
95.4 Celtic-like
4.4 Balto-Slavic
0.2 Germanic

[Kess]

Target: Beowulf_Scaled
Distance: 0.0231% / 0.02314075
85.0 Celtic_IA
15.0 Germanic

The distance ain't that bad at all :)

Celticer than you hehe :biggrin:

[Feiichy]

What's the point of using calculator when it's not for you? It's only for central Europeans, and not even all central Europans. For all other it will produce nonsense results. I never understood this.

It irritates me.

[Eurafricanid]

Target: Eurafricanid-EU
Distance: 3.3808% / 0.03380816
100.0 Celtic-like

:D

Iberian and Anatolian added:

Target: Eurafricanid-EU
Distance: 1.6229% / 0.01622904
70.0 Iberian
16.0 Celtic-like
14.0 Anatolian

[HarveySuits]

What's the point of using calculator when it's not for you? It's only for central Europeans, and not even all central Europans. For all other it will produce nonsense results. I never understood this.

It irritates me.

lol, first there arent many germans here. Second it's still interesting. Even kessaras post, to see which they are closer to. I can delete mine.

[HarveySuits]

I don't know why the label was changed. These samples do not represent ancient Balto-Slavs but medieval Wends and Balts from lands old Germans expanded into.

Rothaer is infringing copyrights.

[Kess]

lol, first there arent many germans here. Second it's still interesting. Even kessaras post, to see which they are closer to. I can delete mine.

Exactly, and my results surprised me. I thought I would be closest to Slavs, but on the contrary, it's Celts.

[rothaer]

Rothaer is infringing copyrights.

No, I was expressly entiteled to label along my assessment.

[Katarzyna]

Exactly, and my results surprised me. I thought I would be closest to Slavs, but on the contrary, it's Celts.

That’s not a new knowledge. Slavs have less Mediterranean components than celts and Slavs were drifted because of long isolation
Balkan also got a lot of Celtic dna

[rothaer]

A German from the Sudetenland, which is Northern Bohemia:

Target: Chr_scaled(Sudetenland)
Distance: 1.3742% / 0.01374190
40.6 Balto-Slavic
32.6 Celtic-like
26.8 Germanic

[Feiichy]

lol, first there arent many germans here. Second it's still interesting. Even kessaras post, to see which they are closer to. I can delete mine.

It's fine, you don't need to :p Ignore my rants.


Rothaer is infringing copyrights.

He can label like he wants, I just hope people won't think Balto-Slavic means proto Balto-Slavic before Slavs and Balts split!

[Katarzyna]

How comes so many calcs are focused on Central Europeans? Is it because we slay so much? :victory0:

[Feiichy]

A German from County Glatz and immediate neigbouring villages. This is in Central Silesia at the Bohemian border and the County Glatz till 1741 was even part of Bohemia.

Target: BE_scaled(Glatz/Frankenstein)
Distance: 1.9274% / 0.01927413
39.4 Balto-Slavic
34.6 Celtic-like
26.0 Germanic


A German from the Sudetenland, which is Northern Bohemia:

Target: Chr_scaled(Sudetenland)
Distance: 1.3742% / 0.01374190
40.6 Balto-Slavic
32.6 Celtic-like
26.8 Germanic

Pretty low Germanic and high Celto-Slav. Real northern Europe starts in northern European plain.

[rothaer]

(...)
He can label like he wants, I just hope people won't think Balto-Slavic means proto Balto-Slavic before Slavs and Balts split!

"Baltic&Slavic" would have been the best label, but I can not change it every 15 minutes as it would irritate the users too much. Already one change caused a lot of unnecessary posts here. :p

[HarveySuits]

No, I was expressly entiteled to label along my assessment.

You feel entitled but you were given permission to...

[Feiichy]

How comes so many calcs are focused on Central Europeans? Is it because we slay so much? :victory0:

I got tired of Balkan calculators and am satisfied with personal results in my signature. My next project was central Europe (Germany in particular) and I did pilot version of calculator for Scandinavians and northeastern Europeans, but still not satisfied enough with it so it's not published.

[Vitez]

Do South Germans (Bayern) also have Slavic ancestry ? If yes, what's the percentage more or less ?

[rothaer]

The most Germanic among the tested relatives of my wife, her paternal aunt that is fully from Western Mecklenburg:

Target: rothaer_pat_aunt-in-law_scaled
Distance: 2.0644% / 0.02064361
81.0 Germanic
16.8 Balto-Slavic
2.2 Celtic-like

[HarveySuits]

It's fine, you don't need to :p Ignore my rants.



He can label like he wants, I just hope people won't think Balto-Slavic means proto Balto-Slavic before Slavs and Balts split!

Your wendish label was far more precise than tbe general balto slavic...

[Feiichy]

Your wendish label was far more precise than tbe general balto slavic...

:love0020:

[Feiichy]

The most Germanic among the tested relatives of my wife, her paternal aunt that is fully from Western Mecklenburg:

Target: rothaer_pat_aunt-in-law_scaled
Distance: 2.0644% / 0.02064361
81.0 Germanic
16.8 Balto-Slavic
2.2 Celtic-like

Fake east German!

[rothaer]

You feel entitled but you were given permission to...

I was even called upon to do it.

[rothaer]

Fake east German!

If you consider the German people originating settlement area it is geographically even in the western half (see white dot).

https://i.imgur.com/2wfMr5F.jpeg

[Catnip]

I'm probably not the best choice for this model either, because I usually get some woggier components and something Balkan/Italian-like, but it's interesting.

Target: Catnip
Distance: 1.1123% / 0.01112268
61.0 Celtic-like
35.0 Germanic
4.0 Balto-Slavic

[rothaer]

(...)

Maybe interesting then: Two ethnic German Alsatians:

Target: Unterelsaß_EXPL0156
Distance: 2.5435% / 0.02543491
58.2 Celtic-like
41.8 Germanic

Target: Unterelsaß_EXPL0157
Distance: 2.6247% / 0.02624675
58.6 Celtic-like
41.4 Germanic

[Julkka]

Target: Julkka_scaled
Distance: 7.1046% / 0.07104559
71.6 Balto-Slavic
28.4 Germanic

Distance to:Julkka_scaled
0.07387884 Balto-Slavic
0.08751960 Germanic
0.13674239 Celtic-like

[Katarzyna]

Distance to:Julkka_scaled
0.07387884 Balto-Slavic
0.08751960 Germanic
0.13674239 Celtic-like[/QUOTE]

Distance to:Julkka_scaled
0.07387884 Balto-Slavic
0.08751960 Germanic
0.13674239 Celtic-like[/QUOTE
Obviously this calc isn’t for you :P

[rothaer]

Do South Germans (Bayern) also have Slavic ancestry ? If yes, what's the percentage more or less ?

In Franconia that belongs to the state of Bavaria you have a notable Slavic contribution. Maybe something like 20%. In Oberpfalz, which is part of Bavaia as well you also have a Slavic contribution, maybe about the same proportion. But in the areas of Oberbayern and Niederbayern, which together with the country Salzburg in Austria is core tribal Bavaria you should have essentially zero %. The same applies to Bavarian Swabia (a part of Swabia that belongs to the state of Bavaria).

[Catnip]

Maybe interesting then: Two ethnic German Alsatians:
Very, and they haven't scored any Slavic.

[rothaer]

Very, and they haven't scored any Slavic.

There actually are some that do score some Slavic but as I've not checked their pedigrees I have some doubts about the ancestry. Do you score Slavic without any known connection in that direction?

[Coastal Elite]

Similar to the Alsatians posted earlier

Target: Daco_scaled
Distance: 2.6684% / 0.02668368
57.8 Celtic-like
37.8 Germanic
4.4 Balto-Slavic

[celticdragongod]

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.02486932 Germanic
0.06785113 Celtic-like
0.07507398 Balto-Slavic

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 2.3164% / 0.02316373
86.0 Germanic
12.4 Celtic-like
1.6 Balto-Slavic

[rothaer]

Similar to the Alsatians posted earlier

Target: Daco_scaled
Distance: 2.6684% / 0.02668368
57.8 Celtic-like
37.8 Germanic
4.4 Balto-Slavic

Yes, but you have Insular Celtic and this is mostly misread as Germanic as you are outside of the applicability of this calculator.

[Coastal Elite]

Yes, but you have Insular Celtic and this is mostly misread as Germanic as you are outside of the applicability of this calculator.

I've tricked many calculators with my mix

[#Oda#]

Target: #Oda#_scaled
Distance: 2.2227% / 0.02222695
79.2 Germanic
12.0 Balto-Slavic
8.8 Celtic-like

(Hiddestorf is an ancestor village of mine btw.)

I don't really trust the Balto-Slavic. Seems too high for my genealogy.

[Catnip]

There actually are some that do score some Slavic but as I've not checked their pedigrees I have some doubts about the ancestry. Do you score Slavic without any known connection in that direction?

I generally score nothing or a low percentage on some of these calculators.

The testing companies I used provided no clues either.

However, My Heritage assigned me Austria (Styria) to the 'Low Confidence' group, despite the fact that I didn't get any 'East Europe' or 'Balkan' ethnicities.

That could be the only plausible possibility that I ignored due to "Low Confidence", and if it's true, it must have occurred a long time ago, as it is unfamiliar to my family.

Immigrations to the Alpine canton in the southwest, where my ancestors are from, were quite unusual in the past.

[rothaer]

Target: #Oda#_scaled
Distance: 2.2227% / 0.02222695
79.2 Germanic
12.0 Balto-Slavic
8.8 Celtic-like

(Hiddestorf is an ancestor village of mine btw.)

I don't really trust the Balto-Slavic. Seems too high for my genealogy.

:stop00010: :irminsul:



(...)

How was it, were there not medieval (Lower) Saxons with notable Slavic among the sequenced ones?

[Feiichy]

Maybe interesting then: Two ethnic German Alsatians:

Target: Unterelsaß_EXPL0156
Distance: 2.5435% / 0.02543491
58.2 Celtic-like
41.8 Germanic

Target: Unterelsaß_EXPL0157
Distance: 2.6247% / 0.02624675
58.6 Celtic-like
41.4 Germanic

Nice to see Alsatians here :) Any Hessians from Fulda district? Maybe they appeared in last few days xD

[Feiichy]

Target: #Oda#_scaled
Distance: 2.2227% / 0.02222695
79.2 Germanic
12.0 Balto-Slavic
8.8 Celtic-like

(Hiddestorf is an ancestor village of mine btw.)

I don't really trust the Balto-Slavic. Seems too high for my genealogy.

This average is closest to Belarusian, so nothing to suspect! Embrace your inner Slavka power frau #Oda# ;)

[Feiichy]

:stop00010: :irminsul:




How was it, were there not medieval (Lower) Saxons with notable Slavic among the sequenced ones?

:lmao:

Yes, some had. I even excluded late medieval Schleswig Saxons because they had Slavka and even much Celtic too. Lol.

Lower Saxony was quietly mongrelized by Slavka in some parts.

[Gallop]

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 4.0718% / 0.04071771
95.8 Celtic-like
4.2 Germanic

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 4.2735% / 0.04273512
100.0 Celtic-like

Target: brother_scaled
Distance: 4.3377% / 0.04337669
100.0 Celtic-like

[Figaro]

Target: CordedDad
Distance: 2.0583% / 0.02058288
55.4 Germanic
26.2 Celtic-like
18.4 Balto-Slavic

[J. Ketch]

After all these calculator fun and games for years can anyone give confident estimates of Celtic, Germanic and Slavic proportions in German regions and surrounding countries? The ancestral proportions of the British Isles are pretty much known from academic studies, time for the Max Planck fellows to get their fingers out of their arse about their own country.

[Mixdguy17]

Thread samples
Target: Mixdguy17_scaled
Distance: 14.8916% / 0.14891634
58.6 Germanic
41.4 Celtic-like

With 1 Amerindian sample, 1 (broadly) african sample and 1 Iberian sample

Target: Mixdguy17_scaled
Distance: 3.2418% / 0.03241812
37.4 Iberian+Basques
35.6 Celtic-like
13.8 Amerindian
13.2 African

[frankhammer]

Target: fh_scaled
Distance: 3.0257% / 0.03025666
74.6 Germanic
25.4 Celtic-like

[J. Ketch]

My go at annoying the calculator creators :sorry:

Target: Creoda_scaled
Distance: 2.5664% / 0.02566441
89.6 Germanic
10.4 Celtic-like

Target: CreodaMum_scaled
Distance: 1.9725% / 0.01972470
83.8 Germanic
13.8 Celtic-like
2.4 Balto-Slavic

Target: CreodaDad_scaled
Distance: 3.1864% / 0.03186443
90.4 Germanic
6.0 Celtic-like
3.6 Balto-Slavic

[Russki]

After all these calculator fun and games for years can anyone give confident estimates of Celtic, Germanic and Slavic proportions in German regions and surrounding countries? The ancestral proportions of the British Isles are pretty much known from academic studies, time for the Max Planck fellows to get their fingers out of their arse about their own country.


They have only 11 Slavic samples, all from one excavation. They are quite heterogeneous and don't give a hint in which proportions they should be mixed to create a Slavic donor source for modeling. Just mixing all 11 and calling it Slavic would be a very unprofessional approach and obviously no one in the Planck university is willing to commit himself to that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhUzN7AwyUkx86MiGtCtXNdJ-YfMHyBt/view



Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA001
0.02626604 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02669429 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02764207 Lithuanian_PA

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA002
0.02328354 Polish
0.02499954 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02639133 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA003
0.03522959 Slovakian
0.03818895 Cossack_Kuban
0.03953074 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA004
0.02734328 Lithuanian_PA
0.02780600 Lithuanian_VA
0.03118003 Lithuanian

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA005
0.02140688 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02184991 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.02207453 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA006
0.01576823 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.01718191 Ukrainian_Donetsk
0.01927412 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA007
0.02738962 Russian_Smolensk
0.02823470 Belarusian
0.02875444 Russian_Kaluga

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA008
0.02609573 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02852656 Polish
0.02907588 Slovakian

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA009
0.02058789 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02116151 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02163965 Ukrainian_Chernihiv

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010
0.01919812 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02142196 Russian_Smolensk
0.02238333 Ukrainian_Donetsk

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA011
0.02201292 Belarusian
0.02318643 Russian_Smolensk
0.02397960 Polish_Kashubian

8/11 from Polish-Ukrainian cluster, one Baltic outlier, and two inbetweeners.

My intepretation of this is that most were Ukrainian-like, and a substantial minority had an ancestry from recently assimilated Balts.

To adequately estimate the proportions there should be hundreds of samples, preferably from different locations in Eastern Germany.

[ScandinavianCelt]

Target: Brad_Ancestry_scaled
Distance: 2.4664% / 0.0246636
78.8 Germanic
12.8 Celtic-like
8.4 Balto-Slavic

[Danjojo]

Target: DanjojoSim
Distance: 0.9164% / 0.00916448
42.0 Balto-Slavic
30.2 Celtic-like
27.8 Germanic

Distance to: DanjojoSim
0.03726566 Germanic
0.04882161 Balto-Slavic
0.06121740 Celtic-like

[J. Ketch]

They have only 11 Slavic samples, all from one excavation. They are quite heterogeneous and don't give a hint in which proportions they should be mixed to create a Slavic donor source for modeling. Just mixing all 11 and calling it Slavic would be a very unprofessional approach and obviously no one in the Planck university is willing to commit himself to that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhUzN7AwyUkx86MiGtCtXNdJ-YfMHyBt/view



Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA001
0.02626604 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02669429 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02764207 Lithuanian_PA

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA002
0.02328354 Polish
0.02499954 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02639133 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA003
0.03522959 Slovakian
0.03818895 Cossack_Kuban
0.03953074 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA004
0.02734328 Lithuanian_PA
0.02780600 Lithuanian_VA
0.03118003 Lithuanian

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA005
0.02140688 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02184991 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.02207453 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA006
0.01576823 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.01718191 Ukrainian_Donetsk
0.01927412 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA007
0.02738962 Russian_Smolensk
0.02823470 Belarusian
0.02875444 Russian_Kaluga

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA008
0.02609573 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02852656 Polish
0.02907588 Slovakian

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA009
0.02058789 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02116151 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02163965 Ukrainian_Chernihiv

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010
0.01919812 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02142196 Russian_Smolensk
0.02238333 Ukrainian_Donetsk

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA011
0.02201292 Belarusian
0.02318643 Russian_Smolensk
0.02397960 Polish_Kashubian

8/11 from Polish-Ukrainian cluster, one Baltic outlier, and two inbetweeners.

My intepretation of this is that most were Ukrainian-like, and a substantial minority had an ancestry from recently assimilated Balts.

To adequately estimate the proportions there should be hundreds of samples, preferably from different locations in Eastern Germany.
Fair enough, but I'd settle for the Celtic and Germanic proportions in Western Germany. It surprises me how seemingly little precise discussion of these elements there is in Germany, France and the Low Countries.

[noricum]

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 2.2038% / 0.02203787
50.4 Balto-Slavic
47.8 Celtic-like
1.8 Germanic


Distance to: G25noricum_scaled
0.05337216 Germanic
0.05564442 Balto-Slavic
0.05815557 Celtic-like

[Feiichy]

They have only 11 Slavic samples, all from one excavation. They are quite heterogeneous and don't give a hint in which proportions they should be mixed to create a Slavic donor source for modeling. Just mixing all 11 and calling it Slavic would be a very unprofessional approach and obviously no one in the Planck university is willing to commit himself to that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rhUzN7AwyUkx86MiGtCtXNdJ-YfMHyBt/view



Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA001
0.02626604 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02669429 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02764207 Lithuanian_PA

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA002
0.02328354 Polish
0.02499954 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02639133 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA003
0.03522959 Slovakian
0.03818895 Cossack_Kuban
0.03953074 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA004
0.02734328 Lithuanian_PA
0.02780600 Lithuanian_VA
0.03118003 Lithuanian

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA005
0.02140688 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02184991 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.02207453 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA006
0.01576823 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.01718191 Ukrainian_Donetsk
0.01927412 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA007
0.02738962 Russian_Smolensk
0.02823470 Belarusian
0.02875444 Russian_Kaluga

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA008
0.02609573 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02852656 Polish
0.02907588 Slovakian

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA009
0.02058789 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02116151 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02163965 Ukrainian_Chernihiv

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010
0.01919812 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02142196 Russian_Smolensk
0.02238333 Ukrainian_Donetsk

Distance to: DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA011
0.02201292 Belarusian
0.02318643 Russian_Smolensk
0.02397960 Polish_Kashubian

8/11 from Polish-Ukrainian cluster, one Baltic outlier, and two inbetweeners.

My intepretation of this is that most were Ukrainian-like, and a substantial minority had an ancestry from recently assimilated Balts.

To adequately estimate the proportions there should be hundreds of samples, preferably from different locations in Eastern Germany.

Sounds like bullshit. Creating one average is only way to get reliable comparisons between individuals because if source contains heterogenous populations than individual results become worthless and random.

Also, I used better approach than just Krakauer Berg samples that are not even early medieval. Saxony Anhalt is not ever eastern Germany but ex central Germany, and Germans expanded into Poland, Czechia and Austria as well thus Slavic samples from there were added, many early medieval.

There cannot be better estimate at the moment and using multiple sources for same population is automatic failure.

[Feiichy]

Fair enough, but I'd settle for the Celtic and Germanic proportions in Western Germany. It surprises me how seemingly little precise discussion of these elements there is in Germany, France and the Low Countries.

Please don't listen to crap he wrote. Slavic and Baltic average is completely reliable and is not Ukrainian like but more northeastern than that.

I worked a lot on this and gave it a lot of tought, all the nonsense discussed here was considered in advance.

[Petalpusher]

I'm probably not the best choice for this model either, because I usually get some woggier components and something Balkan/Italian-like, but it's interesting.

Target: Catnip
Distance: 1.1123% / 0.01112268
61.0 Celtic-like
35.0 Germanic
4.0 Balto-Slavic

Do all the gedmatch calculators also think you are "south German" ?

Target: Petalpusher
Distance: 2.3031% / 0.02303147
59.6 Celtic-like
38.2 Germanic
2.2 Balto-Slavic


This crushes all the remaining hopes for the Celtic master frog race. Snorts.

[Feiichy]

here are originaly labeled components and how they compare to moderns:

Distance to: Germany_medieval_Germanic
0.01498456 Dutch
0.01504906 Danish
0.01524844 Norwegian

Distance to: Keltic_IronAge_CentralEuropa
0.02042838 French_Auvergne
0.02044621 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.02143512 Spanish_Barcelones

Distance to: ECE-Medieval_Wendish-Baltic
0.01132281 Belarusian
0.01293794 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.01324694 Lithuanian_PA

Target: Germany_medieval_Germanic
Distance: 0.0082% / 0.00820889 | R2P
97.8 Norwegian
2.2 Fulani_Ziniare (obvious quality contamination noise)

Target: Keltic_IronAge_CentralEuropa
Distance: 0.0153% / 0.01532639 | R2P
87.5 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
12.5 Polish_Kashubian

Target: ECE-Medieval_Wendish-Baltic
Distance: 0.0065% / 0.00653500 | R2P
74.3 Ukrainian_Rivne
25.7 Latvian

[rothaer]

After all these calculator fun and games for years can anyone give confident estimates of Celtic, Germanic and Slavic proportions in German regions and surrounding countries? The ancestral proportions of the British Isles are pretty much known from academic studies, time for the Max Planck fellows to get their fingers out of their arse about their own country.

Fully agreed as for the latter. They would study the Caribbean Natives a thousand times before they would dare to touch anything in Germany! Because they are scared of then becoming labelled Obernazi and get their carreer quitted.

I'll prepare an estimation for German regions based on all various meanwhile known to me calculations. It's a good idea. It will take some time as I will cross-check a lot of things. Give me some time and don't hesitate to remind me later! :)

[rothaer]

:lmao:

Yes, some had. I even excluded late medieval Schleswig Saxons because they had Slavka and even much Celtic too. Lol.

Lower Saxony was quietly mongrelized by Slavka in some parts.

Could you provide them here? It would be extremely interesting to see them in this calculator.

[Feiichy]

Could you provide them here? It would be extremely interesting to see them in this calculator.

Will provide nothing until Russki is refuted. I am tired on attacks on my calculators. Every time same thing happens.
Do these people think I did not run hundred of tests before, with multiple sources and similar?

[rothaer]

Nice to see Alsatians here :) Any Hessians from Fulda district? Maybe they appeared in last few days xD

Unfortunately not.

As for Creoda's question as for German regions in this case I think that the lack of regional German reference data in G25 will motivate to make simulated coords of the K36 references as the next best solution...

[rothaer]

Will provide nothing until Russki is refuted. I am tired on attacks on my calculators. Every time same thing happens.
Do these people think I did not run hundred of tests before, with multiple sources and similar?

This is a unrelated topic. You mean you are simply not in a mood to tell something before something else unrelated has not happened?

[oszkar07]

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.5764% / 0.02576442
42.0 Celtic-like
34.2 Balto-Slavic
23.8 Germanic

[Flashball]

Maybe interesting then: Two ethnic German Alsatians:

Target: Unterelsaß_EXPL0156
Distance: 2.5435% / 0.02543491
58.2 Celtic-like
41.8 Germanic

Target: Unterelsaß_EXPL0157
Distance: 2.6247% / 0.02624675
58.6 Celtic-like
41.4 Germanic

Alsatians are not "germans" and they are mostly gaulish-like.

[Feiichy]

Alsatians are not "germans" and they are mostly gaulish-like.

False. I have Alsatian ancestor and they identified as German and spoke German. Genetics is irrelevant here as all neighbors are similar.

Germans in Hungary also known as Danube Swabians are mostly from Hessian and Alsatian stock. They are other things too but these were 2 main components.

[Feiichy]

Unfortunately not.

As for Creoda's question as for German regions in this case I think that the lack of regional German reference data in G25 will motivate to make simulated coords of the K36 references as the next best solution...

Why not creat G25 averages with real coords? For some regions there may be some samples.

[ScandinavianCelt]

Could you provide them here? It would be extremely interesting to see them in this calculator.

IllustrativeDNA puts these Schleswig Saxons as my closest ancient genetic distance.

Excluding them doesn't help me much, does it?

https://i.postimg.cc/7htvYg01/top6-closest-ancient-illdna.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RJtpgJPq)

My top Schleswig pieces models with Python as such:

#1 from Ancestry

Icelandic 49.634%
Dutch 18.666%
French_Pas-de-Calais 11.862%
Swedish 10.199%
Orcadian 9.639%

Fit error: 0.017333154920593934

Germany_Schleswig_Saxon_LMedieval:SWG008.A_noUDG,0 .12862,0.136081,0.062979,0.052972,0.040623,0.01701 2,0.00235,0.003461,0.001023,-0.00492,-0.009906,-3.00E-04,-0.006095,-0.016239,0.018051,0.01127,-0.007562,0.00114,0.001131,0.007253,0.01123,0.00408 1,0.00037,0.008073,-0.00467

#1 from 23andMe


Orcadian 43.987%
English_Cornwall 28.843%
Shetlandic 27.170%

Fit error: 0.023392676490984064

Germany_Schleswig_Saxon_LMedieval:SWG002.A,0.13203 5,0.135065,0.058831,0.050711,0.038469,0.01506,0.00 611,0.002769,0.005727,0.000364,-0.001461,0.002847,-0.012636,-0.01156,0.018594,0.000265,-0.028554,0.010515,0.006788,0.003001,0.004118,0.006 925,0.008258,0.013857,0.001197

[Feiichy]

IllustrativeDNA puts these Schleswig Saxons as my closest ancient genetic distance.

Excluding them doesn't help me much, does it?

https://i.postimg.cc/7htvYg01/top6-closest-ancient-illdna.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RJtpgJPq)

You are not German though. This is not Pan Germanic calculator and doesn't work for Scandinavians and British derived people, not even for French.

[Flashball]

Resultats of my ethnic french father, without Gaulish samples:

Target: Père(Picardie)
Distance: 3.0128% / 0.03012845
54.2 Germanic
45.8 Celtic-like


With Gaulish samples (and Celtic-Like)
Target: Père(Picardie)
Distance: 1.7105% / 0.01710510
80.2 GaulishFrance
19.8 Germanic

Alsatians results without Gaulish samples:
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2024/05/7/1707058045-alsatiens.png

With Gaulish samples (they are mostly Gaulish):
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2024/05/7/1707058055-alsatien2.png

[Flashball]

False. I have Alsatian ancestor and they identified as German and spoke German. Genetics is irrelevant here as all neighbors are similar.

Germans in Hungary also known as Danube Swabians are mostly from Hessian and Alsatian stock. They are other things too but these were 2 main components.

They are genetically mostly Gaulish.
A French speaker nigger is not a French, genetically speaking. A 70% Gaulish-like guy with a german language is not a "germanic", just a French.
Ethnic French
Français de souche, do you know that therm? Yeah? Ok.

My alsatians ancestors were not "germans" but mostly Gaulish-like also. All my french side are genetically french
Ethnic French from France
Gaulish.

Genetic is genetic.

Fact.

Il faudrait que les étrangers lisent plus d'études génétiques.

[rothaer]

(..)

To adequately estimate the proportions there should be hundreds of samples, preferably from different locations in Eastern Germany.

Sure. We all long for that Christmas gift, but the question is what we do till we maybe get in in 10 years. :)

Of course, today the selection of references has speculative aspects. Serious criticism should be constructive, i. e. not just telling what is not good but also what would (today) be better. At that point it often becomes silent.

[Feiichy]

Resultats of my ethnic french father, without Gaulish samples:

Calculator doesn't work for French, you have considerable Roman East Med input.

[Feiichy]

They are genetically mostly Gaulish.
A French speaker nigger is not a French, genetically speaking. A 70% Gaulish-like guy with a german language is not a "germanic", just a French.
Ethnic French
Français de souche, do you know that therm? Yeah? Ok.

My alsatians ancestors were not "germans" but mostly Gaulish-like also. All my french side are genetically french
Ethnic French from France
Gaulish.

Genetic is genetic.

Fact.

Il faudrait que les étrangers lisent plus d'études génétiques.

:picard1:

[Flashball]

Dutch from Limburg

Dutch_Limburg:Limburg1,0.127482,0.145221,0.058077, 0.030685,0.041546,0.017291,0.00188,0.004154,0.0036 81,0.008201,-0.005034,0.00045,-0.012487,-0.012524,0.008415,0.006232,0.000261,0.002914,0.003 394,0.002501,0.007861,0.004081,0.002835,0.006025,0 .003952

Without Gaulish samples:

Target: Dutch_Limburg:Limburg1
Distance: 1.7473% / 0.01747278
57.0 Germanic
41.8 Celtic-like
1.2 Balto-Slavic


With Gaulish samples:
Target: Dutch_Limburg:Limburg1
Distance: 1.4367% / 0.01436668
49.2 GaulishFrance
39.0 Germanic
7.6 Celtic-like
4.2 Balto-Slavic



My brother-in-law (50% South/Central Eastern French + 50% Hungarian):

Target: HungarianFrench
Distance: 2.1019% / 0.02101893
56.0 Celtic-like
25.6 Germanic
18.4 Balto-Slavic

Target: HungarianFrench
Distance: 1.9859% / 0.01985879
36.6 Celtic-like
34.6 GaulishFrance
18.2 Balto-Slavic
10.6 Germanic

[Feiichy]

French are not that Gaulish either btw. They appear more Celtic than they are on G25 similarly like north Italians appear mostly Italic and they are not. France was first shifted south east with Roman settlement and than back north via Germanic (on insular Celtic in case of Brittany).

French are not just Gaulish. French are Gaulish + East Med + Germanic.

[Feiichy]

Chauvinist French claiming Alsace for themselves. Than give back French Basque region to Spain, they are genetically Iberian, return Brittany to UK and Corsica to Italy! :mad:

[ScandinavianCelt]

This average is closest to Belarusian, so nothing to suspect! Embrace your inner Slavka power frau #Oda# ;)

Which is my breakdown closest to?

78.8 Germanic
12.8 Celtic
8.4 Balto-Slavaroonie



Schleswiggers?

[Feiichy]

Which is my breakdown closest to?

78.8 Germanic
12.8 Celtic
8.4 Balto-Slavaroonie



Schleswiggers?

Maybe, yes. Your eastern input is coming from Finnic/Saami stuff in Scandinavia.

[Katarzyna]

Maybe, yes. Your eastern input is coming from Finnic/Saami stuff in Scandinavia.

Why is G25 so bad at distinguishing Baltic from Finnic?

[JerryS.]

I'm 25% North German (Bremen, Hamburg, Mecklenburg Schwerin), however I did not expect this much Germanic to show considering I'm at least 50% Scotch-Irish and English.

Model as is:

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.9449% / 0.01944898
74.2 Germanic
25.8 Celtic-like

Added Roman middle ages:

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.9081% / 0.01908093
76.2 Germanic
16.0 Celtic-like
7.8 Rome_MA

Added Byzantium middle ages:

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.9046% / 0.01904588
76.8 Germanic
18.2 Celtic-like
5.0 Byzantium_MA

Added Levant middle ages:

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.9320% / 0.01931956
75.8 Germanic
22.6 Celtic-like
1.6 Levant_MA



My Germanic virtually stayed the same.

Just messing around trying to improve distances and north/south balance:

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.5518% / 0.01551802
73.2 England_MA
18.2 Rome_MA
5.2 Celtic-like
3.4 Germanic

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.5514% / 0.01551391
73.0 England_MA
15.0 Rome_MA
6.2 Celtic-like
3.8 Germanic
2.0 Byzantium_MA

[Russki]

Sounds like bullshit. Creating one average is only way to get reliable comparisons between individuals because if source contains heterogenous populations than individual results become worthless and random.


If the Max Plank university was to create a multiple-source model for Germans, they would use the qpAdm function which is able to properly distinguish what Global25 cannot do. They would correctly assign ancestry and not do it in Vahaduo style where overlapping components freely substitute each other.



Also, I used better approach than just Krakauer Berg samples that are not even early medieval. Saxony Anhalt is not ever eastern Germany but ex central Germany, and Germans expanded into Poland, Czechia and Austria as well thus Slavic samples from there were added, many early medieval.


If the Max Planck university agrees to use the Slavic samples from Poland, they would then have to figure out in which proportions these samples contributed to the formation of a local Slavic genepool. The heterogeneity of Slavic samples would be easily noticed by them, and the origin of such heterogeneity is yet to be professionally assessed.

Regardless of the dating period of the Slavic samples from Saxony-Anhalt, they could not appear Ukrainian-like if they were a mixture of Belarusian-like people and Germans. If that was the case, they would appear as pseudo-Czechs.



There cannot be better estimate at the moment and using multiple sources for same population is automatic failure.
(...)
I am tired on attacks on my calculators. Every time same thing happens.
Do these people think I did not run hundred of tests before, with multiple sources and similar?


The calculator (the Eastern European part of it) I consider good regardless if the label is "Wendish-Baltic" or "Balto-Slavic".



Will provide nothing until Russki is refuted.


How will you refute Ukrainian-like people in Saxony-Anhalt?

How will you refute that North-Eastern Poles and Belarusians have Baltic ancestry?

The heterogeneity of the migration period Slavs who arrived to Germany is no longer a topic of controversy. What remains to be assessed is the origin of their heterogeneity, and in which proportions they arrived.

[Russki]

Sure. We all long for that Christmas gift, but the question is what we do till we maybe get in in 10 years. :)

Of course, today the selection of references has speculative aspects. Serious criticism should be constructive, i. e. not just telling what is not good but also what would (today) be better. At that point it often becomes silent.


I actually do not object to this calculator. Both the "Wendish-Baltic" and "Balto-Slavic" labels provide a safe space for the calculator to stay factually correct in the case if the result is not exactly representative of a "textbook Slavic" autosomal profile.

[rothaer]

Chauvinist French claiming Alsace for themselves. Than give back French Basque region to Spain, they are genetically Iberian, return Brittany to UK and Corsica to Italy! :mad:

They can get Wallonia and French Switzerland in exchange and would even at the bottom line legitimately expand France.

[Feiichy]

They can get Wallonia and French Switzerland in exchange and would even at the bottom line legitimately expand France.

I visited Alsace, old German language is almost dead there, there are tons of real French there and Alsatians have been assimilated. Probably only old people and villagers still speak Alsatian. French state totally opressed this and other minority languages trough history.

Shame because Alsace is wonderful and I found it much more pleasant than neighbouring SW Germany (except Freiburg which was great).

Just saying when my ancestor emigrated from Strasbourg to Hungary they absolutely did not identify as French.

[Vitez]

I visited Alsace, old German language is almost dead there, there are tons of real French there and Alsatians have been assimilated. Probably only old people and villagers still speak Alsatian. French state totally opressed this and other minority languages trough history.

Shame because Alsace is wonderful and I found it much more pleasant than neighbouring SW Germany (except Freiburg which was great).

Just saying when my ancestor emigrated from Strasbourg to Hungary they absolutely did not identify as French.

I've visited Alsace 2 times and all city/village names are still German and most people there have German surnames (look at the top 5).
But you're right they mainly identify as French today.
From what I read, before 1945 most Alsatians didn't even know French but after 1945 the government totally "degermanized" that region to assimilate them.
It seems that the only region that they couldn't assimilate is Corsica.

[rothaer]

Why not creat G25 averages with real coords? For some regions there may be some samples.

I simply have no access to suitable raw data. In spite of exploiting a big German DNA genealogy group there have only been found the samples that I use for the K36 regional averages. And for them I mostly have only the GEDmatch kit # and would also not easily get the raw data. Just some moths ago I asked a reference individual for the raw data in order to at my expense buy G25 coords and I was turned down and asked to understand that there can not be provided something that intime like the raw data. And I've zero motivation to beg around.

But for an educated estimate I think that creating simulated coords based on K36 can be sufficient.

[Feiichy]

Why is G25 so bad at distinguishing Baltic from Finnic?

It seems one of ingrained flaws of G25. K36 works much better at that.

[Feiichy]

But for an educated estimate I think that creating simulated coords based on K36 can be sufficient.

You should try.

[#Oda#]

Fully agreed as for the latter. They would study the Caribbean Natives a thousand times before they would dare to touch anything in Germany! Because they are scared of then becoming labelled Obernazi and get their carreer quitted.

I'll prepare an estimation for German regions based on all various meanwhile known to me calculations. It's a good idea. It will take some time as I will cross-check a lot of things. Give me some time and don't hesitate to remind me later! :)

I wouldn't label them Obernazi for that, Obernazi. I would be happy! :p

[Catnip]

Do all the gedmatch calculators also think you are "south German" ?

Target: Petalpusher
Distance: 2.3031% / 0.02303147
59.6 Celtic-like
38.2 Germanic
2.2 Balto-Slavic


This crushes all the remaining hopes for the Celtic master frog race. Snorts.

I'm usually between south Germans/north French-Walloons.

It's a fair win, Gaul, you have to admit. Maybe your celtic is partly from insular Celts that went into germanic on this calc?

What I don't grasp is how come you from the southeast don't have swarty genes, unlike us in the Alps? Everything is upside down.

[Petalpusher]

I'm usually between south Germans/north French-Walloons.

It's a fair win, Gaul, you have to admit. Maybe your celtic is partly from insular Celts that went into germanic on this calc?

What I don't grasp is how come you from the southeast don't have swarty genes, unlike us in the Alps? Everything is upside down.

Im only 1/4 deep southeast and not even sure that's the real origin of that part of the family. On pca's centraleast and southeast are plotting similar and even north of Swiss. The so called Provencal sample are ethnic Italians from Nice so that's not representative at all of the southeast. Flashball has collected some real individuals and they don't plot like that, they are close even to Alsatians.

Anyway the difference could be Alemanni vs Burgundian influence, or because the Italians actually settled in Switzerland, while the Alps remained a bigger natural barrier on its western aisle. There is a study that shows even during the Roman empire the influence was more cultural than genetic, and the little that got there was compensated apparently by something else more northern. In the end we are still matching closely the Iron age, so basically nothing that drastic happened in the last 3000 years.

[Catnip]

Anyway the difference could be Alemanni vs Burgundian influence, or because the Italians actually settled in Switzerland, while the Alps remained a bigger natural barrier on its western aisle. There is a study that shows even during the Roman empire the influence was more cultural than genetic, and the little that got there was compensated apparently by something else more northern. In the end we are still matching closely the Iron age, so basically nothing that drastic happened in the last 3000 years.

Are there any samples from the Burgundians? Iirc, the Alemmanic samples plotted extremely northern, with Icelanders and Lithuanians even.

Yes, the Alps have always been a strong barrier. We have a greater percentage of haplogroup E1E1b1b-M35 (also in western Austria and Alsace), which could be one of the reasons. These places used to have a lot more Romansch speakers, therefore that 'wogginess' could be also some remnant from Romans.

Just speculating, I've seen only one study.

[Petalpusher]

Are there any samples from the Burgundians? Iirc, the Alemmanic samples plotted extremely northern, with Icelanders and Lithuanians even.

Yes, the Alps have always been a strong barrier. We have a greater percentage of haplogroup E1E1b1b-M35 (also in western Austria and Alsace), which could be one of the reasons. These places used to have a lot more Romansch speakers, therefore that 'wogginess' could be also some remnant from Romans.



I don't think there is an ancient sample from them. They were probably at least as northern since initially from the Bornhom island, which now belongs to Danes, should have been ethnically Swedish back then. Imo those influences are often overestimated, they surely exists, maybe in different proportions but it's almost certainly about the higher contact with Romansch in this case, it would be interesting to have ancient samples (not too ancient) from Switzerland.

I think the E1b are in some cases some Jewish influence, N.Italians are not that E1b to begin with and you see the pattern clearly in France; Paris, Alsace and the frontshore riviera have the highest percentages of E1b, we know Jews have historically settled there especially Alsace (also all the pessimists took refuge in Hollywood and Cannes..), while the Rhône area has actually very low E1b, same as Normandy and lower than Germany's average.

[Feiichy]

Just to clarify; I ran lot of pre-tests with French and Czech IA samples as possible Celtic proxy and results were not satisfactory. Lot of them seem heavily admixed with Germanics or "Germanic-like" stuff. Thus I opted for clear Keltic samples from Austrian core.

Austria IA is quite southern so it should suck in most of wog stuff in southern Germans without need for additional "extra-wog" source.

[celticdragongod]

Yes, but you have Insular Celtic and this is mostly misread as Germanic as you are outside of the applicability of this calculator.

Perhaps but I think this calculator shows that the Celts of continental Europe have more EEF and less Steppe ancestry than the Insular Celts do.

[Feiichy]

Perhaps but I think this calculator shows that the Celts of continental Europe have more EEF and less Steppe ancestry than the Insular Celts do.

Much less, yes.

[celticdragongod]

Fair enough, but I'd settle for the Celtic and Germanic proportions in Western Germany. It surprises me how seemingly little precise discussion of these elements there is in Germany, France and the Low Countries.

That probably has a lot to do with political correctness.

[cass]

Target: cass
Distance: 1.2553% / 0.01255332
60.0 Balto-Slavic
23.0 Germanic
17.0 Celtic-like

and similar regional samples

Target: German_West_Prussia
Distance: 1.8167% / 0.01816716
59.8 Balto-Slavic
28.2 Germanic
12.0 Celtic-like


Target: German_Farther_Pomerania
Distance: 2.0335% / 0.02033546
56.0 Balto-Slavic
36.2 Germanic
7.8 Celtic-like


Target: PolishL_Kuyavia1
Distance: 1.8581% / 0.01858112
69.4 Balto-Slavic
22.6 Celtic-like
8.0 Germanic


Target: PolishL_Kociewie1_scaled
Distance: 2.9458% / 0.02945816
72.2 Balto-Slavic
24.4 Germanic
3.4 Celtic-like

Target: Polish_Kashubian:Kashubian3
Distance: 2.2045% / 0.02204505
77.0 Balto-Slavic
13.0 Germanic
10.0 Celtic-like

[DamCz]

I don't think there is an ancient sample from them. They were probably at least as northern since initially from the Bornhom island, which now belongs to Danes, should have been ethnically Swedish back then. Imo those influences are often overestimated, they surely exists, maybe in different proportions but it's almost certainly about the higher contact with Romansch in this case, it would be interesting to have ancient samples (not too ancient) from Switzerland.

I think the E1b are in some cases some Jewish influence, N.Italians are not that E1b to begin with and you see the pattern clearly in France; Paris, Alsace and the frontshore riviera have the highest percentages of E1b, we know Jews have historically settled there especially Alsace (also all the pessimists took refuge in Hollywood and Cannes..), while the Rhône area has actually very low E1b, same as Normandy and lower than Germany's average.

Going by all the ancient DNA in the Balkans, we can safely say E1b (E-V13) is a Daco-Thracian lineage there. Was absent on the Adriatic coast. I don't know what E1b branches Jews belong too but they also got some J.

[PaulieVanZant]

Exactly the calc I was asking for and also spot on the mixture I predicted. Thanks Feiichy, great work as always!

Target: Stahl
Distance: 1.7758% / 0.01775846
74.0 Germanic
14.6 Balto-Slavic
11.4 Celtic-like

Distance to: Stahl
0.02200759 Germanic
0.06443582 Balto-Slavic
0.06823685 Celtic-like

[Beowulf]

Exactly the calc I was asking for and also spot on the mixture I predicted. Thanks Feiichy, great work as always!

Target: Stahl
Distance: 1.7758% / 0.01775846
74.0 Germanic
14.6 Balto-Slavic
11.4 Celtic-like

Distance to: Stahl
0.02200759 Germanic
0.06443582 Balto-Slavic
0.06823685 Celtic-like



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZxjyRks-_U

[cass]

https://i.ibb.co/9vnNNvq/prus.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
xpictures (https://pl.imgbb.com/)

Prussians.

Quite interesting results. Ermland and Central East Prussians correlate more with Mecklenburg or even Frisians.
It looks like ancient Celtic population reaches the Baltic Sea only in Pomerania, bypassing eastern Prussia and Mecklenburg.

[J. Ketch]

That probably has a lot to do with political correctness.
Maybe, but political correctness hasn't stopped there being a wealth of studies about Anglo-Saxons and Celts (and Bell Beakers before them) in the UK and Ireland, being recognised as the defining origins of the English, Scottish and Irish peoples. The French and Germans should be able to likewise define their national origins by Celtic, Germanic and Slavic ancestry.

[Catnip]

I think the E1b are in some cases some Jewish influence, N.Italians are not that E1b to begin with and you see the pattern clearly in France; Paris, Alsace and the frontshore riviera have the highest percentages of E1b, we know Jews have historically settled there especially Alsace (also all the pessimists took refuge in Hollywood and Cannes..), while the Rhône area has actually very low E1b, same as Normandy and lower than Germany's average.

Agreed, I didn't exclude the Jews, it's just that in Switzerland that haplo peaks in isolated Alpine parts, followed by border area of western Austria; in Germany in Baden which is an Alemannic-dialect speaking Bundesland, while it is completely absent from the Bavarians (this includes the rest of Austria).

Alsace is also Alemannic-dialect speaking, although, as you mentioned, they had some Jewish settlers as well.
Knowing the subclades would be much better.

[Figaro]

My mother's result too, although not really the Calculator for her as she has only minor German ancestry and no known actual Czech (although she averages close to them due to her mix)

Target: CordedMom
Distance: 1.7369% / 0.01736853
54.4 Balto-Slavic
26.8 Celtic-like
18.8 Germanic

[Karol Klačansky]

my results
Target: Karol_scaled
Distance: 2.9592% / 0.02959207
51.8 Balto-Slavic
33.0 Germanic
15.2 Celtic-like

Fathers results

Target: KarolFather_scaled
Distance: 2.5767% / 0.02576712
65.4 Balto-Slavic
23.8 Celtic-like
10.8 Germanic

[celticdragongod]

Maybe, but political correctness hasn't stopped there being a wealth of studies about Anglo-Saxons and Celts (and Bell Beakers before them) in the UK and Ireland, being recognised as the defining origins of the English, Scottish and Irish peoples. The French and Germans should be able to likewise define their national origins by Celtic, Germanic and Slavic ancestry.

The Germans are probably worried that people will compare them to the Nazis.

[J. Ketch]

The Germans are probably worried that people will compare them to the Nazis.
Yeah, although identifying the reality that Germany is not mostly Germanic should in theory allay some of those fears.

[Julkka]

Distance to:Julkka_scaled
0.07387884 Balto-Slavic
0.08751960 Germanic
0.13674239 Celtic-like

Distance to:Julkka_scaled
0.07387884 Balto-Slavic
0.08751960 Germanic
0.13674239 Celtic-like[/QUOTE
Obviously this calc isn’t for you :P[/QUOTE]

I know, just wanted to see how different I'm from them. That's kinda cool to be different.

[mariusz99]

Target: MariuszKorycinski_scaled
Distance: 2.0987% / 0.02098678
78.0 Balto-Slavic
20.4 Germanic
1.6 Celtic-like

[cakmir7y]

My wife and me, both czechs.

Target: Linda_scaled
Distance: 1.6382% / 0.01638223
64.4 Balto-Slavic
31.6 Celtic-like
4.0 Germanic

Target: Mirek_scaled
Distance: 2.1582% / 0.02158181
58.0 Balto-Slavic
29.2 Celtic-like
12.8 Germanic

[djipon]

Me, a Bulgarian.

Target: djipon_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 5.0396% / 0.05039618
87.2 Celtic-like
12.8 Balto-Slavic

[Not a Cop]

Cottubs

Target: P_scaled
Distance: 0.9654% / 0.00965376
38.4 Balto-Slavic
38.0 Germanic
23.6 Celtic-like

Sauerland\Sudeten

Target: S_scaled
Distance: 1.2209% / 0.01220938
37.4 Germanic
35.2 Celtic-like
27.4 Balto-Slavic

[Petalpusher]

Cottubs

Target: P_scaled
Distance: 0.9654% / 0.00965376
38.4 Balto-Slavic
38.0 Germanic
23.6 Celtic-like

Sauerland\Sudeten

Target: S_scaled
Distance: 1.2209% / 0.01220938
37.4 Germanic
35.2 Celtic-like
27.4 Balto-Slavic

Balanced Chuvash slayer. Err..my bad, Berliner punks slayer.

[Not a Cop]

Fair enough, but I'd settle for the Celtic and Germanic proportions in Western Germany. It surprises me how seemingly little precise discussion of these elements there is in Germany, France and the Low Countries.

Thing is that making estimates for West-Germany wouldn't make much sense, as we will have to make it basing on natives, and demographics of Germany was seriously changed after the WWII, first you have Germans from EE coming right after the war, then people started to leave GDR en masse and in the end you have Germans from USSR and once who were not deported from EE in first post-war years. I would also assume that each time refugees were more conservative in their views and thus had higher birth rates, but that's just my assumtion. And as thoose people had no trouble integrating where weren't many real barriers for intermarriage. So theoretically we can ofc get an average for natives of thoose regions, but it would not give us a realistic picture of modern demographics.

https://i.ibb.co/p3WfddS/2024-02-13-161959.png

[Kiel]

Target: Kiel_scaled
Distance: 1.9979% / 0.01997945
47.2 Celtic-like
34.6 Germanic
18.2 Balto-Slavic

[J. Ketch]

Thing is that making estimates for West-Germany wouldn't make much sense, as we will have to make it basing on natives, and demographics of Germany was seriously changed after the WWII, first you have Germans from EE coming right after the war, then people started to leave GDR en masse and in the end you have Germans from USSR and once who were not deported from EE in first post-war years. I would also assume that each time refugees were more conservative in their views and thus had higher birth rates, but that's just my assumtion. And as thoose people had no trouble integrating where weren't many real barriers for intermarriage. So theoretically we can ofc get an average for natives of thoose regions, but it would not give us a realistic picture of modern demographics.

https://i.ibb.co/p3WfddS/2024-02-13-161959.png
There has also been a much internal migration within the UK (and other Western European countries) in recent centuries, but the People of the British Isles study and others focused on people with at least 4 granparents or 8 great grandparents born in a specific area, the same would have to be done for Germany. You could make the same argument that any study focusing only on ethnic Germans doesn't give us a realistic picture of modern Germany, and I'm sure they do.

[#Oda#]

Thing is that making estimates for West-Germany wouldn't make much sense, as we will have to make it basing on natives, and demographics of Germany was seriously changed after the WWII, first you have Germans from EE coming right after the war, then people started to leave GDR en masse and in the end you have Germans from USSR and once who were not deported from EE in first post-war years. I would also assume that each time refugees were more conservative in their views and thus had higher birth rates, but that's just my assumtion. And as thoose people had no trouble integrating where weren't many real barriers for intermarriage. So theoretically we can ofc get an average for natives of thoose regions, but it would not give us a realistic picture of modern demographics.

I'm a NW German native with well researched pedigree. Plattitüdenpaule as well, but with a smaller part of E German ancestry, I think, and a bit Sweden. But you are right, we have been quite whirled around since WW2.

[Not a Cop]

There has also been a much internal migration within the UK (and other Western European countries) in recent centuries, but the People of the British Isles study and others focused on people with at least 4 granparents or 8 great grandparents born in a specific area, the same would have to be done for Germany. You could make the same argument that any study focusing only on ethnic Germans doesn't give us a realistic picture of modern Germany, and I'm sure they do.

I'm not Shure that you do get my point, internal migration in most of the countries was from the farms to the cities, so you do actually have places with low degrees of mixing in those countries, in Germany the countryside changed. It was just a thing of a different magnitude. And the thing is that those people had no boundaries against marrying other Germans. It's not like with pakistanis in UK or something it's just that we will be studying the ghost populations. I'm not saying it should not be done any information is better than none, just that we will be really studying the thing of the past.

[Not a Cop]

I'm a NW German native with well researched pedigree. Plattitüdenpaule as well, but with a smaller part of E German ancestry.
But you are right, we have been quite whirled around since WW2.

Well if you're from the Platt area you know what I mean, every second person got a non-local grandparent or something.

[#Oda#]

Well if you're from the Platt area you know what I mean, every second person got a non-local grandparent or something.

Yes, quite true. This will illustrate it:
My father's best friend is a Silesian, my mother's best friend is a Silesian, our mayor was a Silesian, my aunt married a Silesian.
So I indeed almost feel about being one of the last indigenous people of my generation of my region.

[#Oda#]

I'm not Shure that you do get my point, internal migration in most of the countries was from the farms to the cities, so you do actually have places with low degrees of mixing in those countries, in Germany the countryside changed. It was just a thing of a different magnitude. And the thing is that those people had no boundaries against marrying other Germans. It's not like with pakistanis in UK or something it's just that we will be studying the ghost populations. I'm not saying it should not be done any information is better than none, just that we will be really studying the thing of the past.

Many non-Germans arent aware of this, because they never experienced a comparable thing during their history and Germans ofc never made a fuss of it.

[J. Ketch]

I'm not Shure that you do get my point, internal migration in most of the countries was from the farms to the cities, so you do actually have places with low degrees of mixing in those countries, in Germany the countryside changed. It was just a thing of a different magnitude. And the thing is that those people had no boundaries against marrying other Germans. It's not like with pakistanis in UK or something it's just that we will be studying the ghost populations. I'm not saying it should not be done any information is better than none, just that we will be really studying the thing of the past.
OK, perhaps it is more extreme in Germany, but the percentages of internal migrants from the map you posted (if I'm reading it correctly) don't look all that different from what would be the case in the likes of Britain over a longer period since the Industrial Revolution - there is the large-scale Irish migration to England, Scotland and Wales, the English migration to Wales and Cornwall, the Scottish and Welsh migration to England, the Northern English migration to the South, and the re-migration of mixed British & Irish and other whites from around the Empire back to Britain after decolonisation. All of whom are embedded by now. Plus with such recent migration in Germany you can genetically differentiate the 'pure' locals from the mixed or Easterners, t-sne cluster maps show it. And there must surely be rural areas in Western Germany that are largely unchanged since before the war.

[Leto]

OK, perhaps it is more extreme in Germany, but the percentages of internal migrants from the map you posted (if I'm reading it correctly) don't look all that different from what would be the case in the likes of Britain over a longer period since the Industrial Revolution - there is the large-scale Irish migration to England, Scotland and Wales, the English migration to Wales and Cornwall, the Scottish and Welsh migration to England, the Northern English migration to the South, and the re-migration of mixed British & Irish and other whites from around the Empire back to Britain after decolonisation. All of whom are embedded by now. Plus with such recent migration in Germany you can genetically differentiate the 'pure' locals from the mixed or Easterners, t-sne cluster maps show it. And there must surely be rural areas in Western Germany that are largely unchanged since before the war.
I think the British Isles are less diverse than the German countries. But it's true that Western Germany is full of people with one or two Eastern grandparents. Don't forget WW2 ended almost 80 years ago at this point. And I guess since the 90s the East is receiving some more patriotic/socially conservative people from the West because the former is less woke and less diverse.

[Not a Cop]

OK, perhaps it is more extreme in Germany, but the percentages of internal migrants from the map you posted (if I'm reading it correctly) don't look all that different from what would be the case in the likes of Britain over a longer period since the Industrial Revolution - there is the large-scale Irish migration to England, Scotland and Wales, the English migration to Wales and Cornwall, the Scottish and Welsh migration to England, the Northern English migration to the South, and the re-migration of mixed British & Irish and other whites from around the Empire back to Britain after decolonisation. All of whom are embedded by now. Plus with such recent migration in Germany you can genetically differentiate the 'pure' locals from the mixed or Easterners, t-sne cluster maps show it. And there must surely be rural areas in Western Germany that are largely unchanged since before the war.

Again i'm not saying that this study will be useless, i'm all for it, i'm just explaining that it the figures that we will get will not represent modern-day picture in a resonable way. As for comparisson with other countries, it's just can not be compared, not shure if you read the figures right, but right after the war 12-14 millions moved from EE, later in 1950-2020 4.6 mil moved from EE and exUSSR areas and 3.6 mil moved from Eastern Germany to the West, thing when you go to the countryside in France, UK or Ireland, it's still mostly natives for hundreds of years, in Germany it's really not the case.

[Not a Cop]

I think the British Isles are less diverse than the German countries. But it's true that Western Germany is full of people with one or two Eastern grandparents. Don't forget WW2 ended almost 80 years ago at this point. And I guess since the 90s the East is receiving some more patriotic/socially conservative people from the West because the former is less woke and less diverse.

Nobody actually moves to East Germany, maybe to Dresden, Leipzig or Berlin, but not to the other places. And those cities are left\green.

[Feiichy]

I think impact of east German refugees may be overrated.

West Germany always had notably higher population and higher population density than the east?

[Not a Cop]

I think impact of east German refugees may be overrated.

West Germany always had notably higher population and higher population density than the east?

It always been, but alltogether Germany recieved about 20-22 mil migrants from EE and East Germany.

[Feiichy]

It always been, but alltogether Germany recieved about 20-22 mil migrants from EE and East Germany.

Yeah that's really enormous. Did some of them settle in ex DDR?

[Not a Cop]

Yeah that's really enormous. Did some of them settle in ex DDR?

Defenietly some did, but i have no numbers right now.

[Scandal]

I think impact of east German refugees may be overrated.

West Germany always had notably higher population and higher population density than the east?
According to Wkipedia, ethnic German refugees from Eastern Europe made up 20-25% of West Germany's population in 1950.

Between 1944 and 1948, millions of people, including ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) and German citizens (Reichsdeutsche), were permanently or temporarily moved from Central and Eastern Europe. By 1950, a total of about 12 million[5] Germans had fled or been expelled from east-central Europe into Allied-occupied Germany and Austria. The West German government put the total at 14.6 million,[6] including a million ethnic Germans who had settled in territories conquered by Nazi Germany during World War II, ethnic German migrants to Germany after 1950, and the children born to expelled parents. The largest numbers came from former eastern territories of Germany ceded to the People's Republic of Poland and the Soviet Union (about seven million),[7][8] and from Czechoslovakia (about three million).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950 )

Population of W-Germany in late 1940s was 50 million, 10-15 million of that 50 million were recent "transplants" from Eastern Europe. How was W-Germany able to accomodate such amounts of new people in such a short period?

[NdvBal]

A Czech from Jihlava (simulated coordinates)

Target: Jihlava_simulated
Distance: 1.1252% / 0.01125195
48.2 Balto-Slavic
33.6 Germanic
18.2 Celtic-like

Jihlava_simulated,0.133143,0.131904,0.066184,0.051 271,0.038857,0.019143,0.006885,0.008853,0.000524,-0.009341,-0.003127,-0.001228,0.002195,0.006176,0.001509,0.001404,-0.001977,0.000913,0.005343,0.000806,-0.002337,0.000120,0.005550,0.007331,-0.000567

[protos]

Target: protos_scaled
Distance: 4.4383% / 0.04438334
98.8 Celtic-like
1.2 Balto-Slavic

Distance to: protos_scaled
0.04440255 Celtic-like
0.09518438 Germanic
0.11270111 Balto-Slavic

[#Oda#]

I think the British Isles are less diverse than the German countries. But it's true that Western Germany is full of people with one or two Eastern grandparents. Don't forget WW2 ended almost 80 years ago at this point. And I guess since the 90s the East is receiving some more patriotic/socially conservative people from the West because the former is less woke and less diverse.

It's true what Not a Cop says: East Germany is indeed the region with the oldest average population of the world! So not much speaks for recent movement of people to the Eastern fed. states from the West or whereever.

[#Oda#]

A Czech from Jihlava (simulated coordinates)

Target: Jihlava_simulated
Distance: 1.1252% / 0.01125195
48.2 Balto-Slavic
33.6 Germanic
18.2 Celtic-like

Jihlava_simulated,0.133143,0.131904,0.066184,0.051 271,0.038857,0.019143,0.006885,0.008853,0.000524,-0.009341,-0.003127,-0.001228,0.002195,0.006176,0.001509,0.001404,-0.001977,0.000913,0.005343,0.000806,-0.002337,0.000120,0.005550,0.007331,-0.000567

an extremely good distance

[Karol Klačansky]

A Czech from Jihlava (simulated coordinates)

Target: Jihlava_simulated
Distance: 1.1252% / 0.01125195
48.2 Balto-Slavic
33.6 Germanic
18.2 Celtic-like

Jihlava_simulated,0.133143,0.131904,0.066184,0.051 271,0.038857,0.019143,0.006885,0.008853,0.000524,-0.009341,-0.003127,-0.001228,0.002195,0.006176,0.001509,0.001404,-0.001977,0.000913,0.005343,0.000806,-0.002337,0.000120,0.005550,0.007331,-0.000567

simulated coordinantes are really bad from what ive seen.

[#Oda#]

According to Wkipedia, ethnic German refugees from Eastern Europe made up 20-25% of West Germany's population in 1950. Population of W-Germany in late 1940s was 50 million, 10-15 million of that 50 million were recent "transplants" from Eastern Europe.

How was W-Germany able to accomodate such amounts of new people in such a short period?

The most were lodged in the countryside and especially on farms, simply because there was food and the cities were bombed. So in many villages houses, that had been inhabited by 1-2 families before, then were filled with 4-5 families - in each room a whole family. On our farm were living 4 Silesian and East Prussian families during the 1950s and one family still in the 1960s. Very quickly many new housing estates developed, mainly during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. In my region in Lower Saxony almost each village got such a Neubausiedlung and the street names tell where the refugees came from, being called Danziger Straße, Stettiner Straße and so on.

[BrandenburgGaming]

Target: BrandenburgGaming
Distance: 1.5017% / 0.01501721
44.6 Germanic
31.4 Balto-Slavic
24.0 Celtic-like

is it known which regions of the former eastern territories created the most immigrants for western germany? I dont know of a lot of people around here that have any family in western germany, as most have just stayed here. Both my great Grandmothers from west prussia and slovakia have come to Brandenburg in the 30s already and i dont know what happened to the others in west prussia. I do know that some relatives of my great grandmother from slovakia went to the west, they got a house for free and suddenly felt much better about themselves than those who stayed here

[Far_away]

Target: FarAway_scaled
Distance: 4.3370% / 0.04336991
74.2 Celtic-like
25.8 Balto-Slavic

[cass]

Target: BrandenburgGaming
Distance: 1.5017% / 0.01501721
44.6 Germanic
31.4 Balto-Slavic
24.0 Celtic-like

is it known which regions of the former eastern territories created the most immigrants for western germany? I dont know of a lot of people around here that have any family in western germany, as most have just stayed here. Both my great Grandmothers from west prussia and slovakia have come to Brandenburg in the 30s already and i dont know what happened to the others in west prussia. I do know that some relatives of my great grandmother from slovakia went to the west, they got a house for free and suddenly felt much better about themselves than those who stayed here



Can you specify the area of West Prussia? Or provide the names in private?

[Solitude]

Thread samples
Target: Mixdguy17_scaled
Distance: 14.8916% / 0.14891634
58.6 Germanic
41.4 Celtic-like

With 1 Amerindian sample, 1 (broadly) african sample and 1 Iberian sample

Target: Mixdguy17_scaled
Distance: 3.2418% / 0.03241812
37.4 Iberian+Basques
35.6 Celtic-like
13.8 Amerindian
13.2 African

Can send me these samples

[BrandenburgGaming]

Can you specify the area of West Prussia? Or provide the names in private?

she was from Marienwerder but most have been from the very south east

[cass]

she was from Marienwerder but most have been from the very south east

Cool. My family on the other side of the Vistula.