Sacha's mtFull results

[sacha]

I actually managed to 'predict' this ahead of time. My exact clade right now is H4a1, but I suspect at some point I will be pushed deeper into another clade because I have a lot of outstanding mutations.

Sadly no exact matches, but there are four that show up as fullseq ones. The #1 closest one is 2 steps away and is ancestrally from... Ireland. The rest are 3 steps away and seem to be either Iberian or heavily-Iberian Latinos. I think I would get some Syrian matches if more people tested xd

A map of all H4a1 people on ftDNA:
https://i.ibb.co/Zgh6QRt/image.png

Interestingly enough, there are three Lebanese who have H4a1, but they all share mutations that I do not. On the H4 Group Project, they are labelled under 'H4a1_ A11957G, A12171G, T4232C predicted new subhaplogroup'- I lack all of these extra things, and have more on another side. Still fun to look at.

There is another tester from Syria with H4 but not H4a1, no more show up on the project. The only people I see with these same back mutations are a few Italians, Polish and Finnish, but most of them aren't in my exact clade- they are either deeper or higher in H4.
I was very excited when looking at the list of people to find someone from Syria with the exact same mutations as me! And then I realized... that's me...
I was taking a look at some sub-haplogroups on that same H4 Group Project. One of my triple flips (T152C!!!) is accounted for under 'H4a1_ T152C! predicted new subhaplogroup', which has two testers under it; one from Cuba, one from Italy. There are even further in groups than this under 'predicted new subhaplogroups' with a T152C! flips that I lack mutations for.

I also uploaded to yFull!

https://i.ibb.co/HFXBjVY/image.png

I wonder which one Sacha is :rolleyes:

Here is a chart of my matches on this site (of what % each country showed up). None of them there were exact either, but I was bored so yeah
https://i.ibb.co/g4j4pM0/Screenshot-2024-02-16-at-4-52-44-PM.png

Some of the ancient H4a1s:

- VK345, a Viking sample from ~1000 years ago found in Sweden
- VPBper620, a Hungarian commoner found buried in a cemetary of the Carpathian basin
- I2510, some Bulgarian that I can't find more information on xd, circa 4756 years ago
- KC554007.1 and KC554006.1 from a paper I will read more of later but is called "Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3978205/)" - these appear to be Bell Beakers lol
https://i.ibb.co/74387cT/image.png

Some deeper-down ones (H4a1a, etc etc):

- I15035, sample from France (Morbihan+
- CSN013, sample from Italy (Grosseto), possibly Etruscan
- MT079040.1, sample from Germany (Baden-Wurttemberg)
- PB768, sample from Ireland (Clare)
- VDP-A7, sample from Iceland, 1000 years ago (possibly related to that Viking sample?)

There was also an Egyptian mummy with H4a1 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-74114-9), c. 660 BCE.

3400 ybp is a pretty big window, but it is better than nothing, and I've seen way worse (15000 YBP... poor people). I tested just for fun and am happy to finally have this info :-)

It seems that I have a lot of double and even a few triple back mutations, it is kind of odd. My full list of mutations:

https://i.ibb.co/XLHsdq7/image.png

[~Elizabeth~]

Congratulations on getting your results. :clapping

I got my H1c12 from FTDNA in 2010.

[Kess]

Congrats on your results.

[Jingle Bell]

Looks like its very European predominant, interesting, maybe roman? Mycenaean? Crusader?

[sacha]

Looks like its very European predominant, interesting, maybe roman? Mycenaean? Crusader?

I honestly think it could just be an Anatolian line that had more success in Europe. I'm trying to figure out some mutations and their frequency right now... it does look kind of weird since no one from my region has the same mutations as me even under the H4a1 clade (on ftDNA as well), but I don't want to jump to conclusions too quickly.

[Abaddon]

Do you have Eurogenes K13 results?

[sacha]

Do you have Eurogenes K13 results?

Yes, I've shared before but I should probably do something more organized... at some point


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 49.98
2 West_Asian 19.21
3 West_Med 17.62
4 Red_Sea 9.54
5 North_Atlantic 2.78
6 Siberian 0.53
7 Sub-Saharan 0.27
8 Amerindian 0.06
9 Northeast_African 0.01

[sacha]

I am just using this to keep track of my stuff so xd.

I sent my file to a confirmed maternal relative (distant, but I know we are on the same line), she is asking someone she knows about it on Facebook (this is what I understood at least).

As I mentioned before, this is the 'subhaplogroup' I will end up in when they sort me on the H4 project. The Cuba person is one of 3-step matches, the other one I don't have information about.
https://i.ibb.co/3RdCR0g/Screenshot-2024-02-21-at-4-38-14-PM.jpg

I wish I could properly see some of the back-mutations (they don't show on ftDNA in 'mutations' when I am browsing the group, which sucks), but I have T146C!— same as these people, but they're in H4a1a1a. It could be a random mutation, but also interesting, maybe there is something in common there.

https://i.ibb.co/tJ43vd7/Screenshot-2024-02-21-at-4-44-12-PM.jpg

It looks like I am the only person on the entire H4 project with A241G as a mutation! It appears on the yFull mTree in these clades, but nothing under H4

https://i.ibb.co/brgLfj8/Screenshot-2024-02-21-at-4-48-44-PM.png

Actually, looking at the big H & HV project, unless I have missed something (which is very possible) I am the only one out of almost 15000 members, though not all of them have tests shared. I also checked the H Subclade Discovery group and nothing. So that's bizarre...

There's a bit more but that is all I have looked into for right now.

[ASB1]

That's all well and good but Syriacs came to the Levant during the 1st to 4th centuries H4a1 is seen in Causcoid Near Eastern people.and it didn't strictly evolve in Anatolia, halpgroup H and subclades to that started in all parts of Western Asia including Central Asia and Mesopotamia. You being a Syriac doesn't reflect on your haplogroup. It's seen in all sects of faiths in the Near East in Europe

[ASB1]

Also, Davidski is very well known to be bias, I would take comercial dna tests and Ged match results as geographic and not racial. To do more a racially based ethnicity report go with a ethnicity company who gives you all your haplogroups, including subclades of course of every haplogroup you have or a k14 ancient chart.

[ASB1]

To give the users here a fair idea of how Gedmatch works, I know a man who is ¹/4 Native American 3/4 Ashkenazi German Jewish. Ged match plotted him in Eastern Europe just because his family had resided there for more than 500 years. I believe it may have been Poland on a pca chart, yet this individual was a German Jew and Native American.

His family tree he had 25 German and Native American Latino Sephardic Jewish surnames in his family tree, all of them close they would be his mother's second-to third cousin. I resent Eastetn European Americans unlike myself clustering Ashkenazis with Slavs on PCA charts. On the flip side some Ashkenazis do register as Ashkenazi on Ged match. I would rather go by names in family trees, haplogroups/ancient charts or population matches like Ged's Euro genes. It doesn't mean anything ethnically or racially.

[ASB1]

Taken time off Stormfront, Elizabeth?

[chinshen]

That's all well and good but Syriacs came to the Levant during the 1st to 4th centuries H4a1 is seen in Causcoid Near Eastern people.and it didn't strictly evolve in Anatolia, halpgroup H and subclades to that started in all parts of Western Asia including Central Asia and Mesopotamia. You being a Syriac doesn't reflect on your haplogroup. It's seen in all sects of faiths in the Near East in Europe

Where do you think they came from? Then why were they called Syriacs if they came from outside of Levant?

[ASB1]

In a general Wikipedia search, if you search their language ( Syriac ) which is half Syriac half Aramean it was established between the 1st and 4th century.

She has a general Lebanese Christian or Palestinian score which basically means her Middle Eastern ancestors went via the West Asian route rather than the Neolithic route. Ged match results means nothing. They sparingly give the Muslims more African and North African dna as a rule of thumb, when Muslim groups like the Alawites are the most recognized group of Syria.

Syriacs are basically Assyrians. Their language, phenotype and Ged Match proves that they are West Asian. Some more Neolithic groups like Alawites score more Red Sea, more North African and more SSA because they took a simple Neolithic route, from Africa, North Africa, West Asia then to Europe. It's the same reason why Iberians get two percent North African in Ged match, which again is a PCA group database there. Because they have heightened amounts of CH Iranian Chalcolithic whereas 'West Asians like her would have more ' would have less North African and Red Sea but more Mesopotamian

[ASB1]

I believe the Indo Europeans were H2a1 as a subclade, not hers which is Egyptian/Mesopotamian in origin. She's just Assyrian/Syriac which makes sense as it says 'Mount Lebanon' and here's the thing to remember about Gedmatch, lumping people in populations rather than haplogroups won't tell people if you have any Jewish or Gypsy or whatever. Ged Match is a bias outline that tells people virtually nothing about their ethnicity

And thanks to Davidski's bs I'm going to have to spend the next year trying to explain to people how population matches won't register distant Jewish or Gypsy ancestry too .

Family trees, surnames, haplogroup subclades and ancient ethnicity charts are better. K14 is good but based on the fact it's based on Gedmatch Data it's only good on indigenous populations

[chinshen]

I believe the Indo Europeans were H2a1 as a subclade, not hers which is Egyptian/Mesopotamian in origin. She's just Assyrian/Syriac which makes sense as it says 'Mount Lebanon' and here's the thing to remember about Gedmatch, lumping people in populations rather than haplogroups won't tell people if you have any Jewish or Gypsy or whatever. Ged Match is a bias outline that tells people virtually nothing about their ethnicity

And thanks to Davidski's bs I'm going to have to spend the

She had said before when she first jointed this forum that she is not Syriac or Assyrian, but actually Christian Arab from Syria.

[ASB1]

Christian Arabs are Syriacs,it's literally their Church and their language apart from reletively recently adopted Arabic. So, a Syrian Christian who plots in Mount Lebanon like all Syriacs do including the Lebanese Maronites plots in those regions on vague population charts like Ged match Eurogenes and has a Egyptian/Mesopotamian haplogroup that isn't Indo European, nor Anatolian. Great.

[ASB1]

The H haplogroup
The H haplogroup is believed to have developed in West Asia[1] about 20 millennia ago. Today about 45% of native Europeans have the H haplogroup the proportion decreasing as you travel southeast with a frequency of about 20% in Egypt [2] , the countries bordering the eastern Mediterranean, and the southern Caucasus dropping to less than 10% in the Arabian Peninsula, the “Stans”of Central Asia and North India. [1,3]

The H4 subhaplogroup
Studies of modern populations: The H4 subhaplogroup, often in conjunction with the closely aligned haplogroups H7 and H13 are found in Europe and the broad group of countries that constitute western Asia. The H4 subhapologroup is relatively rare, is most common in the very west of Europe (Iberia, and the British Isles [4]).

H4 (together with related subhaplogroups) account for about 40% of the population carrying the H haplogroup in Egypt.[5] (i.e. about 8% of the modern population have the H4 haplogroup)

Studies of ancient populations: In an analysis of 16 Lebanese samples ranging in age from the 2nd to the 18th centuries BCE and 12 from the 5th/6th centuries BCE from Sardinia [7] and 21 samples from Sardinia from 4170-859 BCE [11] no evidence of any H4 subgroup was identified. Says it's from the second century, which quite literally proves my point.

The H4a1 subhaplogroup
Studies of modern populations: The H4a1 subhaplogroup was identified in 15 of 750 samples from modern Andalusians [6] and 1 of 87 modern Lebanese [7] as well as relatively recent archaeological samples dating from the 6th to the 14th century CE in the Canary Islands [8]

Studies of ancient populations: In an analysis of 37 individuals from Mittelelbe-Saale (2500-1575 BCE), together with 2 samples from northern Italy [9], and 41 samples tested from “early bronze age (2000-1500 BCE) ” Bulgaria [10], three (2 from Germany and 1 from Bulgaria) demonstrated the H4a1 subhaplogroup.

The German samples have been described as coming from Bell Beaker and Unetice populations.

What does this discovery tell us about ancient Egyptian populations?


The occurrence of such a rare haplogroup in ancient Egypt adds to our existing knowledge of mitochondrial haplogroups in ancient Egyptian populations and shows the importance of undertaking single case studies

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[ASB1]

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_H_mtDNA.shtml

PIE speakers from the Pontic Steppe are known to have possessed quite different maternal lineages from that of Mesolithic and Neolithic Europeans. A few H subclades linked to the R1a populations of Northeast Europe would obviously have been found among Mesolithic Eastern Europeans, like H1b, H1c and H11. Others may have come from the North Caucasus, like H2a1, or from the advance of Neolithic farmers from the Balkans to Northeast Europe, like H7. Others yet would have come from Anatolia when R1b cattle herders crossed the Caucasus, attracted by the vast pastures of the Pontic Steppe. These would have included H5a, H8 and H15.

So the Indo European H2a1 started North of the Caucasus, and is seen in all Neolithic populations. If it's seen in 'Western Asia' broadly, it's likely those particular people have a Chalcolithic admixture a bit like Iberians who are a H1 variant. Whereas hers is West Asia, which likely she has a very literal West Asian origin, in ethnicity and race, which she would be as Syriacs established themselves in Mesopotamia, I believe they went to ancient Egypt to spread Christianity via the 'Copts' so it doesn't surprise me it's a large amount inEgypt, either.

If it's found in Europeans it's probably that they have a meanial West Asian admixture, rather than a broader Anatolian EEF and Iranian Chalcolithic one

[chinshen]

In a general Wikipedia search, if you search their language ( Syriac ) which is half Syriac half Aramean it was established between the 1st and 4th century.

She has a general Lebanese Christian or Palestinian score which basically means her Middle Eastern ancestors went via the West Asian route rather than the Neolithic route. Ged match results means nothing. They sparingly give the Muslims more African and North African dna as a rule of thumb, when Muslim groups like the Alawites are the most recognized group of Syria.

Syriacs are basically Assyrians. Their language, phenotype and Ged Match proves that they are West Asian. Some more Neolithic groups like Alawites score more Red Sea, more North African and more SSA because they took a simple Neolithic route, from Africa, North Africa, West Asia then to Europe. It's the same reason why Iberians get two percent North African in Ged match, which again is a PCA group database there. Because they have heightened amounts of CH Iranian Chalcolithic whereas 'West Asians like her would have more ' would have less North African and Red Sea but more Mesopotamian

I know what Syriac is, I don't need to look it up in Wikipedia. I am just mentioning what she said about her ethnicity when she was asked about it.
She clearly said that she considers herself Syrian Arab and not Syriac.

[ASB1]

Yes but if I call myself Chinese doesn't mean I am.

She has more pegs in Turkey Mesopotamia than the Levant Lebanon/Syria.
She's Syriac and you don't even know what that is.
https://i.ibb.co/Zgh6QRt/image.png

[ASB1]

Apart from that her main haplogroup is also the West Asian route much like the Assyrian-Syriac-Aramean writing she has in her signiture. There are plenty of H haplogroups of West Asia, it matters what route they went, hers is literally ''West Asian'' rather than the Caucasus/Anatolian route like H2a1 Caucasian West Asians are.

I think is the point you and her are trying to make is that based on a vague PCA population matches she's somehow indignious and that reflects on her Christian Arab identity. They are both incorrect assumptions and I personally know a case ( explained in the previous post ) why Ged match should be taken with a complete grain of salt.

[sacha]

Why is there a Jew-obsessed schizoposter on my dead thread trying to claim I am not Levantine because I have a certain mtDNA haplogroup xd Some people have too much time on their hands